Re: Re: RE: Re: Re: query: Historical Materialism

[Rakesh Bhandari]

>
>I have defended that formulation in What's Wrong with Exploitation?, 
>Nous 1995, availabkle on the net in the old marxism spoons archive. 
>However, I argued that it did not require the labor theory of value 
>in Marx's canonical formulation to state it. More generally, the 
>point is that capitalism is exploitative, a point that _can_ be put 
>without reference to any theory of value at all--Roemer has an 
>argument to this effect.

I have had an extensive argument with someone influenced by Roemer, 
though he criticizes Roemer for not appreciating the distinction 
between labor power and labor.  But I'll ask you a question: how do 
you understand the logic by which Marx discovered the distinction 
between labor power and labor or--to put it another way--that what Mr 
Moneybags pays for in what is indeed a fair exchange is labor power, 
not labor time itself? Or do you think said distinction is as 
superfluous as the so called labor theory of value? Or do you think 
Marx's understanding of that distinction has to be modified?



>  I think that Roemer's version loses a lot of the point of Marx's 
>socological analysis, which, as I say, can be maintained without 
>holding that labor creates all value

Justin, Marx does not say that. He says that *abstract, general 
social* labor creates all value. Value as expressed in the exchange 
value of a commodity does not derive from the subjective or 
*personal* estimation of the toil and trouble involved in its 
production. Value does not derive from the useful qualities of the 
commodity that derive from the *concrete* labor that went into its 
making. The value of the commodity is not related to the time 
individual producers put into their making but rather the time 
socially necessary to reproduce that commodity. The value of a 
commodity is a represenation of some aliquot of the social labor time 
upon which divided in some form any and all societies depend. It is 
not personal, subjective and concrete labor time that is connected 
with the value of a commodity.

These are very rough qualifications, but Marx spent a lot of time 
elucidating these qualifications--along with the monetary sides of 
value--that he thought escaped the classical economists who were thus 
at a loss to understand capitalism as historically specific form of 
social labor and the crises by which it was riven.



>or that price is proportional to value understood as socially 
>necessary abstract labor time.

Marx did not think price is proportional to value; contra Bohm 
Bawerk, he did not come around in vol 3 to implicitly recognizing the 
productivity of capital. Vol 3 was written before vol 1.

I also find it puzzling--as did even Amartya Sen who is by no means a 
Marxist--that self proclaimed sympathetic critics would find 
value--abstract, general social labor time--of little descriptive 
interest in in itself merely because it is not a convenient way of 
calculating prices with given physical data.

I can understand how Samuelson would embrace the redundancy charge 
and the eraser theorem but the alacrity with which academic 
sympathizers accepted such criticism is little short of astonishing, 
I must say.

Or  should we say socialists of the chair rather analytical Marxists?




>
>I will add that Jim and Chris B have cast amniadversions on the 
>reductionism of "classical" analytical Marxism, which has largely 
>been abandoned by its founders (Erik Olin Wright excepted, also Alan 
>Carling). But the points I am making do not require reductionism of 
>any sort. What remains of AM--and it does survive in places like the 
>journal Historical Materialism--is an emphasis on clarity, 
>precision, explicitness, and rigorous standardss of argument, along 
>with a totally unworshipful attitude towards traditional 
>formulations or classic texts. These are worth preserving.

I thought Cohen's theory of history was a a more rigorous version of 
Plekhanov's classic texts? I must say that I found Brenner's 
criticism of Cohen rather persuasive.



>
>Because AM as a  movement has evaporated, it is not worth beating up 
>on or defending. What is worth defending is what has always 
>mattered--intellectual honesty and care,

I am not convinced that Marx was given a fair hearing.



  the pessimism of the mind that must accompany optimism of the will.
>  Leave fundamentalism to the religious. If there is a scientific 
>dimension to historical materialism, it will survive.

Not necessarily because Marx's scientific theory threatens the ruling 
class. This is a science whose existence and (paradoxically) 
dissolution depends on the political victory of the working class.

At any rate, I think this recent argument about crisis indicates how 
deeply Marx thought about micro foundations.

In order for surplus value to be realized capitalists have to expand 
the scale of production but each capitalist does not do so in order 
to realize surplus value for the capitalist class as a whole but 
becau

Re: query: Historical Materialism

[bantam]

> Out of interest, what's wrong with the labour theory of value?  Do the
> AMs
> have an alternative theory of value, or do you try to get along
> without one?
> Feel free to not answer if it would take more labour than is worth
> bothering
> with.

G'day Daniel,

I do remember reading a particularly eloquent paper a few years back
('In Defence of Exploitation' I think it was called) that argued, if
memory serves, that (1) as it could be logically shown that capitalism
necessarily entailed otherwise unnecessary exploitation, (2) this
constitutes sufficiently profound a critique of capitalism to (3) make
of the ever problematic (or so says the argument) law of value a 'fifth
wheel'. I found myself in hearty agreement (although I have not
personally found a convincing case against the law of value yet).

I'll leave the meat of that to others for the moment.

Cheers,
Rob.

RE: Re: RE: Re: Re: query: Historical Materialism

[Davies, Daniel]

>It's analytical Marxist. Most AMs, like me, do not believe that Marx's
>value
>theory is more than a heuristic, and think that the important and true
>insights in Marx can be stated without the labor theory of value.
>
>jks
>

Out of interest, what's wrong with the labour theory of value?  Do the AMs
have an alternative theory of value, or do you try to get along without one?
Feel free to not answer if it would take more labour than is worth bothering
with.

cheers

dd


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Free Trade Game

[Peter Dorman]

I am able to announce, at long last, that I have finished the "shipping"
version of Rice and Beans, a game I developed to demonstrate the
critique of orthodox trade theory and its significance for the
trade/environment debate.  (The same critique is easily extended to the
trade/labor debate.)  The game is not especially fun to play -- it
consists of six rounds, each illustrating a trade-and-regulation
scenario -- and a lot of numbers get concocted and added up, but it does
take players rather far into a stylized Post Keynesian universe
(unemployment, imbalanced trade) in which a race to the bottom is a real
possibility.  It is suitable for groups of 10-50 or so, and it takes
about two hours to play, including the final discussion.  It has been
classroom-tested.  (Please, no criticism from People for the Ethical
Treatment of Students.)

The game is contained in three files, available as WordPerfect or pdf: a
six-page handount distributed to all players, one-page forms for players
playing key roles, and a three-page user guide.

Ask (offline) and ye shall receive.

Peter

Re: RE: Re: Re: query: Historical Materialism

[Justin Schwartz]

>
>Would one of those important and true insights be that the value
>contributed by labor power to the product of labor power exceeds the
>value paid to labor by capital for its contribution?
>
I had said:> >
>
>It's analytical Marxist. Most AMs, like me, do not believe that Marx's
>value
>theory is more than a heuristic, and think that the important and true
>insights in Marx can be stated without the labor theory of value.
>
>jks
>

I have defended that formulation in What's Wrong with Exploitation?, Nous 
1995, availabkle on the net in the old marxism spoons archive. However, I 
argued that it did not require the labor theory of value in Marx's canonical 
formulation to state it. More generally, the point is that capitalism is 
exploitative, a point that _can_ be put without reference to any theory of 
value at all--Roemer has an argument to this effect. I think that Roemer's 
version loses a lot of the point of Marx's socological analysis, which, as I 
say, can be maintained without holding that labor creates all value or that 
price is proportional to value understood as socially necessary abstract 
labor time.

I will add that Jim and Chris B have cast amniadversions on the reductionism 
of "classical" analytical Marxism, which has largely been abandoned by its 
founders (Erik Olin Wright excepted, also Alan Carling). But the points I am 
making do not require reductionism of any sort. What remains of AM--and it 
does survive in places like the journal Historical Materialism--is an 
emphasis on clarity, precision, explicitness, and rigorous standardss of 
argument, along with a totally unworshipful attitude towards traditional 
formulations or classic texts. These are worth preserving.

Because AM as a  movement has evaporated, it is not worth beating up on or 
defending. What is worth defending is what has always mattered--intellectual 
honesty and care, the pessimism of the mind that must accompany optimism of 
the will. Leave fundamentalism to the religious. If there is a scientific 
dimension to historical materialism, it will survive. But it requires a 
skeptical temperment.

jks

_
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
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china/wto

[Ian Murray]

< http://www.feer.org >
ECONOMY

Building a Wall or a Bridge?

China's membership of the World Trade Organization and the faster
opening of its economy to the outside world are fuelling a debate
between conservatives who fear dependence on foreigners and
reformers who want even greater reliance on trade


By Bruce Gilley/HONG KONG
Issue cover-dated February 07, 2002


IN THE DAYS OF Mao Zedong, China defended its economic security by
burrowing factories deep in mountainous regions, stockpiling grain
and stationing soldiers at bridges and dams.

It has come a long way since then, opening its economy to foreign
goods, capital and management and shifting from a defensive,
war-like economic footing to one based on closer ties to the
outside world. Joining the World Trade Organization will accelerate
that process.

But the faster opening has sparked a debate about how China can
defend its economic security-safeguarding its ability to generate
wealth in the face of external threats-as it becomes more
intertwined with the rest of the world.

Some policymakers, harking back to Maoist days, advocate the
construction of a "new Great Wall" to protect China against
everything from rapacious foreign investors to dependence on world
petroleum and grain markets. Others, pointing to the "new economic
security concept" employed by successful open economies, urge a
more pro-active reliance on strong trade ties, competitive
industries and a strong currency to backstop economic security.

The debate goes to the heart of China's opening, touching on the
highly emotive interplay between a desire to open and grow strong
and lingering fears of damage to national security.

Few countries-except those with little choice like Hong Kong and
Singapore-shake off fortress-style approaches entirely. All in the
name of economic security, the United States stockpiles oil in
former salt caverns, Japan protects inefficient rice farmers and
Taiwan hassles its companies trying to invest in China.

But nowhere are the tensions as deep or stakes as high as in China.
While it's too early to say who will triumph, there are signs that
those urging faster opening will win. That could be the key to
China emerging over the next decade as an economic superpower
instead of an economic has-been.

"It's a very important issue. How well China does in future will
depend on how this question is resolved," says Ross Garnaut, an
economics professor and China specialist at the Australian National
University in Canberra. "The more it embraces economic strength
rather than economic self-sufficiency, the easier will be its
transition to a rich, modern economy."

While China's decision to enter the WTO is a sign that the new
economic security concept has the upper hand, old notions die hard.
Even in the WTO, key sectors of the economy-like telecoms,
financial services and power-will remain restricted for foreign
investors in the name of economic security. Meanwhile, Maoist
ideals of food, energy and technology self-sufficiency heavily
influence official policy.

China's crude-oil imports are expected to exceed half its total
usage by 2015-20, up from 30% today. The conservative State
Economic and Trade Commission is advocating the creation of a
U.S.-style "strategic oil reserve" of 15 million tonnes, a month's
supply, arguing that growing imports "pose a threat to the nation's
economic security."

Yet economists opposed to the plan say such a stockpile is
unnecessary and damaging. As the U.S. shows, such reserves-costly
to acquire and store-are unlikely ever to be needed and, worse, are
typically used for nonstrategic reasons like raising revenues and
lowering prices during election campaigns. They also lessen
pressures to curtail fossil-fuels use.

China's supply security, they argue, would be better protected by
opening its domestic reserves to foreign exploration and
production, while building strong diplomatic ties to producer
nations.

Food security raises the same issues. China's grain imports are
expected to rise to 10% of total consumption by 2020, up from 3%
today. Some government advisers argue for continued food-security
policies, forcing farmers to grow grain and limiting imports
through special opt-outs available under the WTO. But as with oil,
economists argue that a better strategy would be to rely on
foreign-exchange reserves as security against domestic shortages,
especially given the diversity of supply from world markets. "In a
modern economy, strong purchasing power is better than bursting
silos of grain," says a book on WTO entry published by China's
trade ministry last year. Or as Garnaut notes: "Hong Kong and
Singapore have little domestic supply of food or oil and no issue
of food or energy insecurity."

In both cases, the triumph of the new approach over
self-sufficiency would have a profound impact on world markets and
China's economy.

WTO entry goes some way toward meeting the goals of supply security
by making it virtually impossible f

Re: anal. Marxism and value

[Chris Burford]

At 31/01/02 14:52 -0800, you wrote:
>[was: query: Historical Materialism]
>
> > Quick, everyone run for the hills :-)
> >
> > Ian
>
>Ian may be correct to be afraid of excessively theoretical or Marx-quoting
>discussions. But he doesn't have to read this thread.

Yes, and it is hard to summon up the energy to write, partly because I 
respect and appreciate Justin's clarity in drawing attention to the fact 
that there may be a reason for the journal being weak on the law of value.

I think it is a bit more than a prejudice if I say what came to mind, 
spontaneously,  that really to think about economic affairs without a 
concept of value, is like thinking about people without believing in the 
existence of society.

It appears to deny the likelihood that there are emergent properties from 
the millions of exchange transactions.

It suggests that all commodity exchange just jostles against one another 
like atoms in Brownian motion.

There are powerful dynamics here, which require a whole system analysis. 
What other candidates are there for a strange attractor than value based on 
the socially necessary labour time? Could anyone list some?

Nor is this abstract. What is ultimately the rate limiting factor that has 
produced the current recession?

It is also that "the law of value of commodities ultimately determines how 
much of its disposable wroking-time society can expend on each particular 
class of commodities"

Chris Burford

London

re: anal. Marxism and value

[Devine, James]

[was: query: Historical Materialism]

> Quick, everyone run for the hills :-)
> 
> Ian

Ian may be correct to be afraid of excessively theoretical or Marx-quoting
discussions. But he doesn't have to read this thread. 

The "analytical Marxist" school seems to have largely disappeared, but one
of the things that most of them (especially the Roemerians) are into is an
emphasis on looking for microfoundations of all phenomena. Others, like
Cohen, are into reductionism of other sorts (the "base" _determines_ the
"superstructure," exactly). These kinds of approaches seem to come from the
application of the methodologies cultivated by orthodox social science or
philosophy (including the positivists' explicit rejection of methodology) to
"make sense of" Marx's ideas and reject many or most of them. 

I think that Levins & Lewontin's DIALECTICAL BIOLOGIST is a good antidote to
these "analytic" approaches. They see micro as determining macro -- and
macro determining micro -- as part of a dynamic and holistic approach.
Within this context, Marx's "law of value" makes total sense. 

Jim Devine

> - Original Message -
> From: "Forstater, Mathew" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 2:23 PM
> Subject: [PEN-L:22132] RE: Re: Re: query: Historical Materialism
> 
> 
> Would one of those important and true insights be that the value
> contributed by labor power to the product of labor power exceeds
> the
> value paid to labor by capital for its contribution?
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Justin Schwartz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 4:19 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: [PEN-L:22131] Re: Re: query: Historical Materialism
> 
> 
> >
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >I subscribe "Historical materialism" I think that its weakness is
> >inadequate& insufficient analysis of fundamental category of
> Marx's
> >analysis
> >of value-form and labor theory.
> >
> 
> It's analytical Marxist. Most AMs, like me, do not believe that
> Marx's
> value
> theory is more than a heuristic, and think that the important and
> true
> insights in Marx can be stated without the labor theory of value.
> 
> jks

Re: RE: Re: Re: query: Historical Materialism

[Ian Murray]

Quick, everyone run for the hills :-)

Ian
- Original Message -
From: "Forstater, Mathew" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 2:23 PM
Subject: [PEN-L:22132] RE: Re: Re: query: Historical Materialism


Would one of those important and true insights be that the value
contributed by labor power to the product of labor power exceeds
the
value paid to labor by capital for its contribution?

-Original Message-
From: Justin Schwartz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 4:19 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [PEN-L:22131] Re: Re: query: Historical Materialism


>
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>I subscribe "Historical materialism" I think that its weakness is
>inadequate& insufficient analysis of fundamental category of
Marx's
>analysis
>of value-form and labor theory.
>

It's analytical Marxist. Most AMs, like me, do not believe that
Marx's
value
theory is more than a heuristic, and think that the important and
true
insights in Marx can be stated without the labor theory of value.

jks

_
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger:
http://messenger.msn.com

BLS Daily Report, Thursday January 31

[Richardson_D]

RELEASED TODAY: The Employment Cost Index (not seasonally adjusted) for
December 2001 was 156.8 (June 1989=100), an increase of 4.1 percent from
December 2000, the Bureau of Labor Statistics reported today. The Employment
Cost Index (ECI), a component of the Bureau's National Compensation Survey,
measures changes in compensation costs, which includes wages, salaries, and
employer costs for employee benefits.

U.S. economic growth turned positive in the last three months of 2001,
increasing a slight 0.2 percent on very strong consumer and federal
spending, the Commerce Department says. Americans responded to the
zero-percent auto financing, which helped lift consumer spending 5.4
percent, while government outlays, both military and nondefense, shot up 9.5
percent ( Daily Labor Report, page D-1).

The number of large-scale layoffs soared in New England and the Midwest
during December, despite a decline in such events in the U.S. as a whole,
according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. The federal agency tracks
so-called mass layoffs, in which 50 or more employees lose their jobs in a
single action from a company. New England had 116 such events in December, a
53% increase from the month before, resulting in 12,809 initial claims for
unemployment insurance, a 45% jump. And in the Midwest, mass layoffs
increased by 28% to 1,013 in December, resulting in 119,250 initial
unemployment claims, up 18%. But nationally such large-scale job-cutting
actions dropped 9% in December, to 2,425. The largest was in Pacific Coast
states--a 44% decrease from November. Lewis Siegel, senior economist at the
agency, says the Midwest layoffs were driven by auto-related manufacturers,
even as car companies saw a boom in sales because of 0%-financing offers. No
industry dominated in New England, though Mr. Siegel notes smaller sectors
related to communications and computer equipment had high numbers of
layoffs. Mr. Siegel notes, however, that month-to-month comparisons are
difficult as the data aren't seasonally adjusted ( The Wall Street Journal,
January 30, Andrew Caffey, page B9).

Against the backdrop of an economy that is displaying remarkable resilience,
the Federal Reserve brought its yearlong campaign of interest rate cuts to
an apparent end today, voting to hold rates steady and citing signs of an
incipient recovery. The decision by the central bank was announced a few
hours after the Commerce Department reported that the economy had defied
widespread predictions of a sharp contraction after the terrorist attacks to
show a small growth in the last three months of the year. The department
said the economy expanded at an annual rate of 0.2 percent in October ,
November and December, driven in large part by robust consumer spending,
especially on new cars. In the previous quarter, the economy contracted at a
1.3 percent annual rate ( The New York Times, page A1).

The numbers point to economic recovery. Powered by soaring auto sales and a
sharp increase in government spending, the U.S. economy resumed growing in
the final three months of last year, albeit at a meager 0.2 percent annual
rate, the Commerce Department reported yesterday. The unexpectedly strong
number, an initial estimate that will be revised in coming months, suggests
that the U.S. recession that began last spring may have already ended. If
so, it will have been the mildest on record ( The Washington Post, page A1).

DUE OUT TOMORROW: The Employment Situation: January 2002


<>

RE: Re: Re: query: Historical Materialism

[Forstater, Mathew]

Would one of those important and true insights be that the value
contributed by labor power to the product of labor power exceeds the
value paid to labor by capital for its contribution?

-Original Message-
From: Justin Schwartz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 4:19 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [PEN-L:22131] Re: Re: query: Historical Materialism


>
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>I subscribe "Historical materialism" I think that its weakness is
>inadequate& insufficient analysis of fundamental category of Marx's 
>analysis
>of value-form and labor theory.
>

It's analytical Marxist. Most AMs, like me, do not believe that Marx's
value 
theory is more than a heuristic, and think that the important and true 
insights in Marx can be stated without the labor theory of value.

jks

_
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

Re: Re: query: Historical Materialism

[Justin Schwartz]

>
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>I subscribe "Historical materialism" I think that its weakness is
>inadequate& insufficient analysis of fundamental category of Marx's 
>analysis
>of value-form and labor theory.
>

It's analytical Marxist. Most AMs, like me, do not believe that Marx's value 
theory is more than a heuristic, and think that the important and true 
insights in Marx can be stated without the labor theory of value.

jks

_
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

Re: query: Historical Materialism

[miyachi]

on 2/1/02 04:17 AM, Devine, James at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> does anyone know when or if the next issue of the British-based journal
> "Historical Materialism" is coming out? Allegedly, they're publishing a book
> review of mine...
> 
> Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] &  http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine
> 
MIYACHI TATSUO
PSYCHIATRIC DEPARTMENT
KOMAKI MUNICIPAL HOSPITAL
KOMAKI CITY
AICHI Pre.
JAPAN

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

I subscribe "Historical materialism" I think that its weakness is
inadequate& insufficient analysis of fundamental category of Marx's analysis
of value-form and labor theory.

Re: RE: Reverse Taliban Decrees for WEFdemonstrators

[Doug Henwood]

I think it applies to crowds of three or more - though it's 
selectively enforced, since no one ever busted anyone at the Village 
Halloween Parade, not to mention trick-or-treating kids.

And it's the NYPD, not the FBI.

Doug

Devine, James wrote:

>does this law apply to those of us who wear "Groucho-style" glasses, fake
>noses, and mustaches?
>
>Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] &  http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine
>
>>  Thou shalt not cover thy face so as to offend the local FBI..
>>  From a report on the WEF by AFP.  Cheers, Ken Hanly
>>
>>  Police have warned troublemakers that an 1845 law designed to
>>  hamper the Ku
>>  Klux Klan will be invoked to place under arrest any group of
>>  people covering
>>  their faces.

Thu, Feb. 7: "Plan Colombia, Plan of Death/Plan de Muerte"

[Yoshie Furuhashi]

Critical Perspectives on Wars, Classes, & Empires

Plan Colombia, Plan of Death
Plan Colombia, Plan de Muerte

Speaker: Mary Hershberger

Mary Hershberger is a professor of history at Capital University. 
Her publications include _Traveling to Vietnam: American Peace 
Activists and the War_ (1998) and "Mobilizing Women, Anticipating 
Abolition: The Struggle against Indian Removal in the 1830s" 
(_Journal of American History_ 86.1, June 1999).  She is actively 
involved in the SOA Watch and Witness for Peace.

Date: Thursday, February 7
Time: 5:00 p.m.
Location: 115 Stillman, OSU
1947 College Rd., Columbus, OH

The teach-in with Mary Hershberger includes the showing of a 
40-minute video "Colombia -- The Next Vietnam?" by Anne Barstow and 
Tom Driver of the Witness for Peace.  The video demonstrates that US 
involvement in Colombia is not mainly about drugs but about oil; not 
about counternarcotics but about counterinsurgency; and not about 
coca but about US military expansion.  It documents life in a village 
built by refugees fleeing from the US-sponsored poison spraying of 
farms; environmental damage of the spraying; murderous attacks on 
Colombia's labor movement; and interviews with mayors, legislators, 
human rights workers, the military, campesinos, pastors, women's 
groups, and US embassy personnel.

<> -- Simón 
Bolívar, 1829

Sponsored by the Student International Forum and Social Welfare 
Action Alliance.
OSU Campus map: .
For more info, contact Yoshie Furuhashi at <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> or 
614-668-6554; and Keith Kilty at <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> or 614-292-7181.

The flyer for the event is available at 
.  The flyer for other 
upcoming SIF/SWAA events is available at 
.
-- 
Yoshie

* Calendar of Events in Columbus: 

* Anti-War Activist Resources: 
* Student International Forum: 
* Committee for Justice in Palestine: 

query: Historical Materialism

[Devine, James]

does anyone know when or if the next issue of the British-based journal
"Historical Materialism" is coming out? Allegedly, they're publishing a book
review of mine... 

Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] &  http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine

The rate of profit and recession

[Charles Brown]

The rate of profit and recession
by Rakesh Bhandari
30 January 2002 17:12 UTC  < < < 
Thread Index
> > >  


Rakesh, 

Don't you think that in the passage quoted, Marx addresses the questions you had asked 
?

In addressing the isssues you ask "why" about, Marx gives and "ultimate" why answer. 
Perhaps the answer to the disagreement here is that you are explaining the "trigger" , 
which is more of an immediate cause. Marx is addressing the "ultimate" or more 
fundamental cause.

The other questions you pose to Marx's quote are relevant , and no doubt of interest 
to economists.  


Rakesh>why is there overaccumulation in the system as a whole?  why is
>global investment demand not strong and high enough to realize the
>surplus value that remains latent in commodities?
>
>
>
>
>
>Karl Marx: "Let us suppose that the whole of society is composed only of 
>industrial capitalists and wage-workers. Let us furthermore 
>disregard price fluctuations, which prevent large portions of the 
>total capital from replacing themselves in their average proportions 
>and which, owing to the general interrelations of the entire 
>reproduction process as developed in particular by credit, must 
>always call forth general stoppages of a transient nature. Let us 
>also disregard the sham transactions and speculations, which the 
>credit system favours. Then, a crisis could only be explained as the 
>result of a disproportion of production in various branches of the 
>economy, and as a result of a disproportion between the consumption 
>of the capitalists and their accumulation. But as matters stand, the 
>replacement of the capital invested in production depends largely 
>upon the consuming power of the non-producing classes; while the 
>consuming power of the workers is limited partly by the laws of 
>wages, p!
>artly by the fact that they are used only as long as they can be 
>profitably employed by the capitalist class.

Charles, why do capitalists find at some point in the course of 
accumulation that it is no longer profitable to employ workers in the 
expansions of either or both depts and thus limit investment demand 
(of which variable capital is a component) such that surplus value 
that has already been produced and lays idle (not all of which by the 
way is in the form of consumer goods) cannot be realized by way of 
accumulation?






>
>  The ultimate reason for all real crises always remains the poverty 
>and restricted consumption of the masses as opposed to the drive of 
>capitalist production to develop the productive forces as though 
>only the absolute consuming power of society constituted their 
>limit."


So investment demand falls, the masses are further impoverished and 
their consumption even more restricted, yet supply had been built up 
with a view to meeting unmet needs and demands as such which are now 
however no longer effective because of the drop off of investment 
demand the explanation for which is the shortage of the surplus value 
that was actually being produced even as that surplus value had in 
fact realized.

The capitalists no longer believe that it pays to accumulate, 
investment demand falls off, capital and workers are idled,  the 
masses are thereby impoverished and their consumption further 
restricted--so yes indeed the ultimate cause of crisis can be said to 
be the restriction on the consumption of the masses by the adequation 
of the production to the valorization of capital.

The question remains what are the limits to the valorization of capital.

Rakesh

^^

CB: As Jim Devine says,  because Marx says it doesn't mean whatever. However , if you 
are claiming to be giving Marx's take on this issue, then you have seemingly 
transferred what Marx calls the "ultimate reason" into a "penultimate reason" , and 
posed your own "ultimate reason" in substitute. Fine. But I don't see why you claim 
that you are doing the analysis as Marx would. You should claim it as Bhandari 
analysis. That doesn't even mean that Marx wouldn't pose the question that you do, but 
he doesn't give it the fundamental causal status that you do.

Doesn't Marx sound very 2002ish when he says " Let us 
also disregard the sham transactions and speculations, which the 
credit system favours." ?

Re: RE: Reverse Taliban Decrees for WEF demonstrators

[Michael Perelman]

My God, Jim.  I never new that your costume was fake.

On Thu, Jan 31, 2002 at 09:09:13AM -0800, Devine, James wrote:
> does this law apply to those of us who wear "Groucho-style" glasses, fake
> noses, and mustaches?
> 
> Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] &  http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine
>  
> > Thou shalt not cover thy face so as to offend the local FBI.. 
> > From a report on the WEF by AFP.  Cheers, Ken Hanly
> > 
> > Police have warned troublemakers that an 1845 law designed to 
> > hamper the Ku
> > Klux Klan will be invoked to place under arrest any group of 
> > people covering
> > their faces.
> 

-- 
Michael Perelman
Economics Department
California State University
Chico, CA 95929

Tel. 530-898-5321
E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Asper: What Me Censor?

[Ken Hanly]

>From Globe and Mail( canada)

Asper blasts critics of editorial policy


By PETER KENNEDY


Thursday, January 31, 2002 - Page A6


VANCOUVER -- CanWest Global Communications Corp. chairman Izzy Asper
yesterday struck back at critics who say the media conglomerate's national
editorial policy is a threat to free speech in Canada.

The Manitoba-based company, which owns 26 daily newspapers, including the
National Post, has been under fire for requiring its newspapers to carry
editorials that are written in the Winnipeg head office.

Mr. Asper used the company's annual shareholders meeting in Vancouver to
respond to protests from people he said are "posturing" as champions of free
speech.

Before the meeting, organizations representing Canada's journalists
expressed alarm about what they called a disturbing pattern of censorship
within the company's stable of newspapers, which provide content for its
Global TV network.

Critics say their main concern is that journalists who work for CanWest will
be afraid to express their views freely about issues that may have already
been covered in editorials written in Winnipeg.

"Owners have to be very careful about understanding where the line is
between having some influence in terms of expounding your views and casting
a chill on the presentation of other views, whether it is within the paper
or from writers within the community," said David Bocking, president of the
Communications, Energy & Paperworkers Union of Canada Local 2000, which
represents employees at the Vancouver Sun and Province newspapers.

Mr. Asper remained defiant when facing questions about the editorial policy,
which he said would continue.

"We firmly believe that on some major issues our readers deserve, and will
welcome, a national point of view and not merely a local or parochial
perspective," he said.

"We do this because, as publisher-in-chief, we are responsible for every
word which appears in the papers we own and, therefore, on national and
international key issues we should have one, not 14, editorial positions."

During the meeting it was suggested that the policy is creating a
homogeneity of opinion in Canada. Mr. Asper insisted that the company's
actions were in keeping with a free press.

What it comes down to, he said, is this question: Should the publisher or
owner of a national chain be free to express a common opinion on national
and international issues or do its employees decide what is to be published
in each paper?

In a letter to journalists across Canada, the Canadian Association of
Journalists and Quebec Federation of Professional Journalists said CanWest's
editorial policy amounts to "a disturbing pattern of censorship" that is
justification for a government inquiry.

RE: Reverse Taliban Decrees for WEF demonstrators

[Devine, James]

does this law apply to those of us who wear "Groucho-style" glasses, fake
noses, and mustaches?

Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] &  http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine
 
> Thou shalt not cover thy face so as to offend the local FBI.. 
> From a report on the WEF by AFP.  Cheers, Ken Hanly
> 
> Police have warned troublemakers that an 1845 law designed to 
> hamper the Ku
> Klux Klan will be invoked to place under arrest any group of 
> people covering
> their faces.

Reverse Taliban Decrees for WEF demonstrators

[Ken Hanly]

Thou shalt not cover thy face so as to offend the local FBI.. From a report
on the WEF by AFP.  Cheers, Ken Hanly


Police have warned troublemakers that an 1845 law designed to hamper the Ku
Klux Klan will be invoked to place under arrest any group of people covering
their faces.

RE: Green Party vs. Natural Law Party

[michael pugliese]

Unnatural FAQs: Maharishi Natural Law Party and John Hagelin
... A series of articles by Justin Raimondo, (or try this cached
copy) anti-war activist,
on the alleged false face of the Natural Law Party. A web page
by ... 
Description: An independent, critical resource on The Natural
Law Party and John Hagelin. Insider secrets, scandals... 
Category: Regional > North America > ... > Candidates > Hagelin,
John and Nat Goldhaber
http://www.trancenet.org/nlp/index.shtml

>--- Original Message ---
>From: Joshua Bragg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Date: 1/30/02 11:38:49 PM
>

>
>I just recieved my California voter information guide for the
primary 
>election. I had never heard about the Natural Law party, which
looks like a 
>party of scientists. They seem quite progressive in some respects
(export 
>know-how instead of weapons and national health care). Has anyone
else come 
>across this party? I also wonder what some of the Californians
on this list 
>do when election time comes around. I have not yet found an
active social 
>democratic party here and am debating between the Green party
and this 
>Natural Law party.
>
>www.natural-law.org
>www.cagreens.org
>
>Joshua
>
>_
>Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
>http://www.hotmail.com
>
>

Redux: Cheney Made Millions Off Oil Deals with Hussein

[Charles Brown]

Redux:  Cheney Made Millions Off Oil Deals with Hussein

http://www.angelfire.com/co/COMMONSENSE/cheney.html 

San Francisco Bay Guardian
November 13, 2000
by Martin A. Lee

Here's a whopper of a story you may have missed amid the
cacophony of campaign ads and stump speeches in the run-
up to the elections.

During former defense secretary Richard Cheney's five-year
tenure as chief executive of Halliburton, Inc., his oil
services firm raked in big bucks from dubious commercial
dealings with Iraq. Cheney left Halliburton with a $34
million retirement package last July when he became the
GOP's vice-presidential candidate.

Of course, U.S. firms aren't generally supposed to do
business with Saddam Hussein. But thanks to legal loopholes
large enough to steer an oil tanker through, Halliburton
profited big-time from deals with the Iraqi dictatorship.
Conducted discreetly through several Halliburton
subsidiaries in Europe, these greasy transactions helped
Saddam Hussein retain his grip on power while lining the
pockets of Cheney and company.

According to the Financial Times of London, between
September 1988 and last winter, Cheney, as CEO of
Halliburton, oversaw $23.8 million of business contracts
for the sale of oil-industry equipment and services to Iraq
through two of its subsidiaries, Dresser Rand and
Ingersoll-Dresser Pump, which helped rebuild Iraq's
war-damaged petroleum-production infrastructure. The
combined value of these contracts exceeded those of any
other U.S. company doing business with Baghdad.

Halliburton was among more than a dozen American firms that
supplied Iraq's petroleum industry with spare parts and
retooled its oil rigs when U.N. sanctions were eased in
1998. Cheney's company utilized subsidiaries in France,
Italy, Germany, and Austria so as not to draw undue
attention to controversial business arrangements that might
embarrass Washington and jeopardize lucrative ties to Iraq,
which will pump $24 billion of petrol under the
U.N.-administered oil-for-food program this year. Assisted
by Halliburton, Hussein's government will earn another $1
billion by illegally exporting oil through black-market
channels.

With Cheney at the helm since 1995, Halliburton quickly
grew into America's number-one oil-services company, the
fifth-largest military contractor, and the biggest nonunion
employer in the nation. Although Cheney claimed that the
U.S. government "had absolutely nothing to do" with his
firm's meteoric financial success, State Department
documents obtained by the Los Angeles Times indicate that
U.S. officials helped Halliburton secure major contracts in
Asia and Africa. Halliburton now does business in 130
countries and employs more than 100,000 workers worldwide.

Its 1999 income was a cool $15 billion.

In addition to Iraq, Halliburton counts among its business
partners several brutal dictatorships that have committed
egregious human rights abuses, including the hated military
regime in Burma (Myanmar).

EarthRights, a Washington, D.C.-based human rights
watchdog, condemned Halliburton for two energy-pipeline
projects in Burma that led to the forced relocation of
villages, rape, murder, indentured labor, and other crimes
against humanity.

A full report (this is a 45 page pdf file - there is also a
brief summary) on the Burma connection, "Halliburton's
Destructive Engagement," can be accessed on EarthRights'
Web site

Human rights activists have also criticized Cheney's
company for its questionable role in Algeria, Angola,
Bosnia, Croatia, Haiti, Rwanda, Somalia, Indonesia, and
other volatile trouble spots. In Russia, Halliburton's
partner, Tyumen Oil, has been accused of committing massive
fraud to gain control of a Siberian oil field.

And in oil-rich Nigeria, Halliburton worked with Shell and
Chevron, which were implicated in gross human rights
violations and environmental calamities in that country.
Indeed, Cheney's firm increased its involvement in the
Niger Delta after the military government executed several
ecology activists and crushed popular protests against the
oil industry.

Halliburton also had business dealings in Iran and Libya,
which remain on the State Department's list of terrorist
states. Brown and Root, a Halliburton subsidiary, was fined
$3.8 million for reexporting U.S. goods to Libya in
violation of U.S. sanctions.

But in terms of sheer hypocrisy, Halliburton's relationship
with Saddam Hussein is hard to top. What's more, Cheney
lied about his company's activities in Iraq when
journalists fleetingly raised the issue during the
campaign.

Questioned by Sam Donaldson on ABC's This Week program in
August, Cheney bluntly asserted that Halliburton had no
dealings with the Iraqi regime while he was on board.

Donaldson: I'm told, and correct me if I'm wrong, that
Halliburton, through subsidiaries, was actually trying to
do business in Iraq?

Cheney: No. No. I had a firm policy that I wouldn't do
anything in Iraq even arrangements that were supposedly
legal.

And th

The West Confused Us

[Charles Brown]

January 29, 2002

Quote of the Day

"Q. Is the West aware that bin Laden posed more of a threat to Saudi Arabia than he 
did 
to anyone else? 

"A. The West confused us. 

"Q. How was that? 

"A. Because the West never told us exactly what it wants. Now we know that Sudan 
offered to hand bin Laden over to the US, but the Americans refused and opposed his 
extradition. After the US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were bombed, the Americans 
accused the Sudanese of engaging in terrorism. Only then did they ask Khartoum to hand 
bin Laden over, but it was too late: he had 
already flown the coop to Afghanistan.  

Now, the Americans are spending untold amounts of money and a lot of effort in trying 
to track him down. But he was virtually in their grasp when he was in Sudan. Why 
didn't they agree to receive him from the Sudanese?  

Now the West, led by America, is accusing our Palestinian brethren, who are fighting 
occupation, of being terrorists. What kind of talk is this? It is clear that we are 
all targeted, no doubt about it."

Extract from an interview by Hisham Aldiwan in the the Daily Star of Lebanon with 
former Saudi Finance Minister Prince Talal bin Abdel-Aziz, currently, special UNICEF 
envoy and president of the UN Development Organization's Arab Gulf Program. 

disappointment

[Devine, James]

After several months, I am totally disappointed, disillusioned, and
disheartened (in sum, totally dissed). President Bush even blew the
opportunity of Tuesday night's "state of the onion" address! He never, ever,
has used his bully pulpit to explain how the War Against Terrorism is
promoted by permanent tax cuts for the rich and retroactive tax cuts for
corporations!

Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] &  http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine

Re: Green Party vs. Natural Law Party

[Ann Li]

NLP are followers of the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi and as believe as he did that
if we all do transcendental meditation, the world will be a better place.
BTW, their university, located in scenic Fairfield, Iowa, has the best
printed catalogs I have ever seen.

for those more rooted in the material(ist) world:

SpeechSmuggler.

for the fans of the cult game Dopewars:
SpeechSmuggler is the exciting game of inter-borough
trading. You're an aspiring merchant with a few bucks
and an even larger debt. You jet from borough to
borough buying and selling dope.
Based on the Palm Pilot application DopeWars by
Matthew Lee.

SpeechSmuggler can be reached toll free from the
United States by calling 1.800.555.TELL.
You will need to ask for extensions and then give it
the extension number 1.






- Original Message -
From: "Joshua Bragg" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 2:38 AM
Subject: [PEN-L:22113] Green Party vs. Natural Law Party


>
> I just recieved my California voter information guide for the primary
> election. I had never heard about the Natural Law party, which looks like
a
> party of scientists. They seem quite progressive in some respects (export
> know-how instead of weapons and national health care). Has anyone else
come
> across this party? I also wonder what some of the Californians on this
list
> do when election time comes around. I have not yet found an active social
> democratic party here and am debating between the Green party and this
> Natural Law party.
>
> www.natural-law.org
> www.cagreens.org
>
> Joshua
>
> _
> Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
> http://www.hotmail.com
>
>
>

Dialectics and Process: Part II

[Charles Brown]

Dialectics and Process: Part II


Society moves in class antagonism. "At a certain stage of their development, 
the material forces of production in society come into conflict . . . with 
the property relations . . .  From forms of development of the forces of 
production, these (property) relations turn into their fetters. Then comes 
the period of social revolution." 
  
Application of new (technological) methods of production cheapens labor-power 
and increasingly renders every larger portions of world labor superfluous to 
the production of commodities. Human labor is the source of the value borne 
in commodities. Increasingly value-less production is incompatible with a 
system based of the sell and purchase of labor-power. The technological 
advance must by definition further polarize a society based on the sell and 
purchase of labor-power. Polarization means the increasing separation - 
externalization, of the poles that constitute the unity and strife in the 
production process - labor and capital, a rupture in the unity and emergence 
of the poles as relatively independent entities. 

The "rupture" in the contradiction labor and capital mean a rupture in the 
social fabric. Society is being torn from its old foundations or undergoing a 
'leap' to a new mode of production. The objective aspect of the leap began 
with the introduction of something new, the transition from automated 
electro-mechanical processes to automated digitalized processes. If the means 
of production have undergone a leap, then the social response must be 
characterized as a leap to a new consciousness necessary to form the 
subjective aspect of the new mode of production.

Antagonism with its polarization of wealth and poverty, separation of poles 
expressing the unity of labor and capital in the production process; 
quantitative and qualitative dimensions and changes; leaps and evolutionary 
leaps are not separate categories but isolated as aspects of development to 
indicate why society behaves a certain way and why what was simply a mass of 
unemployed labor has been transformed into the emergence of a new class.   

The leap - sometimes a very long process, is the transition from one quality 
to another or better yet, the transition from one law system to another. The 
leap is not some slow quantitative moving away from the old, but a sudden 
break in the continuity and the establishment of a new qualitative 
development, incompatible with the old law system. Nor is the leap the swift 
establishment of the new law system of a quality all in one bold stroke. 

Everyone who recognizes the power of the Marx dialectic understood that 
capitalism could not and did not ensure the standard of living and cultural 
development of the working class. What was not understood was the specific 
limitation of capitalist property relations as a historically evolved social 
force, because the technological revolution had not unfolded. Generally all 
of us agree that the maturing of a system of production creates the 
conditions for its change. In the absence of the existence of the concrete 
material conditions for the leap from one law system to the next or a change 
in the mode of production, the specific boundaries of capitalist commodity 
production could not be defined and was articulated as "at a certain stage of 
their development, the material forces of production in society come into 
conflict . . . with the property relations . . ." 

The physically concrete conditions that define the boundary of capitalist 
commodity production and the horizon of a new law system of production are 
summed up as value-less production. What has obscured this process for many 
is the conception of the "information economy." What is the primary 
qualitative distinction is not the reconfiguration of channels of information 
- which most certainly represents qualitative enhancement, but the increasingl
y value-less character of commodity production. Increasingly value-less 
production is the primary qualitative distinction defining the leap - 
transition, from one mode of production to another. Here is the primary 
quality that demands that property relations be reconfigured - not the 
structure and technological character of information. 

Technology - the rendering of an increasing mass of living labor superfluous 
to the production process creates the condition defining the boundary of 
capital. As conditions ripen, elements of the new system of technology are 
grafted onto the old infrastructure. The new is incompatible with the law 
system governing the old and the new begins to destroy the old social 
relations driving production. In the language of the Marx dialectic this is 
stated as a general law of process development: "qualitative transition 
begins with the quantitative introduction of the new quality into the 
quantitative development of the old." 

Here is what limited the framework of the social struggle in yesteryear.

1.  An expl

Will Korea's credit card boom lead to bust?

[Ulhas Joglekar]

The Times of India

TUESDAY, JANUARY 29, 2002

Will Korea's credit card boom lead to bust?

REUTERS MONDAY, JANUARY 28, 2002

SEOUL: South Korean wallets are bulging these days -- not with cash, but
with
plastic. Lured by card-promoting tax breaks, lotteries and gifts, the
swiping spenders of Seoul and other cities are helping fuel a
consumer-driven economic recovery that sets South Korea apart from other
Asian economies.

Credit card companies are smiling all the way to the banks that operate many
cards, with transactions growing 80 per cent last year and lucrative cash
advances making up two-thirds of the 400 trillion won ($305 billion) credit
card market.

But the flip side of the buy-now-pay-later boom is growing delinquency in a
society raised on Confucian frugality.

The bankers' dream is a nightmare for a 28-year-old Seoul accountant, who
ended 2001 staring at a mountain of debt.

"I almost went broke with an avalanche of warnings to pay off card bills I
didn't even remember where I had run up," he said, speaking on condition of
anonymity.

On January 18, the Financial Supervisory Service said the number of people
with delinquent credit records had risen 17.6 per cent in 2001 on the year
to 2.45 million. About a million of those in debt owed more than 10 million
won ($76,000), it said.

"The current size of consumer debt is too big," said bank analyst Scott Seo
at JP Morgan Chase.

Household borrowing reached a record high of 160 trillion in 2001, up 44.8
trillion won on the year, the government said.

Tax breaks and toasters

Credit cards have found ready acceptance among the 46 million people of
South Korea, a middle-income nation where the biggest bill in circulation is
the 10,000 won note, worth just $7.60.

There were 80 million credit cards issued by the end of September 2001, with
adults holding an average of 3.5 cards, the Korea Non-bank Financial
Association said.

A government keen to curb tax evasion by restaurants and mom-and-pop stores
has promoted plastic payment, since 2000 offering year-end tax rebates to
people who spend more than 10 per cent of their income with credit cards.

Korean card users flashed plastic for 27 per cent of their personal spending
in 2000, the Korea Non-banking Financing Association says.

Credit cards are not just easy to get, they are hard to resist, with agents
pushing them at subway stations accompanied by enticements like dishes,
toasters and mobile phones.

One card company runs a monthly lottery drawing with a top prize rewarding
up to 100 million won ($76,780) to card users.

The rise in credit card lending also reflects Korean banks' shift toward
retail lending after a focus on corporate loans was blamed for exacerbating
the 1997-98 Asian financial crisis.

Profits soar as market doubles

Soaring credit card usage has boosted the earnings of Korean banks and
financial firms in 2001, with return on equity in Korea's credit-card
industry averaging 40 per cent in 2001.

The Maeil Business Newspaper reported on January 21 that net profits at
South Korea's seven credit card companies rose about 175 per cent in 2001 to
a record 2.58 trillion won ($1.97 billion) on surging commission fees.

The daily quoted preliminary figures from Korea's financial authorities as
showing the size of the credit card market doubled in 2001 to 446.8 trillion
won.

The biggest single players include Samsung, LG and Kookmin Credit Card. But
BC Card -- an alliance of 12 banks -- holds a third of the market, while KEB
Credit Card and Tongyang Card are smaller rivals.

The sector's growth has attracted global giants like Citibank, armed with
sophisticated financial products and deep pockets.

Citibank lined up for the takeover of Chohung Bank's credit card operations
three months after it pulled out of talks on buying Korea Exchange Bank's
card unit last October.

Paulo Rhee, a bank analyst at ABN Amro, said the credit cark market is
"still dominated by domestic credit card companies, but Citibank will jump
in and that would be a major change. It is definitely going to be more tense
in terms of competition."

Ten-second loans, trouble ahead?

Automatic teller machines can spit out loans to card holders in less than 10
seconds. Credit card issuers reap a fat margin between the full rates they
charge borrowers and the funding rates they pay after four interest rate
cuts in 2001.

But that easy money is not enough to stop the indebted Seoul accountant from
cutting up his cards and swearing off plastic.

"From the start of 2002, I'm paying in cash rather than credit cards," he
said.

The young professional is not alone in his debt plight.

The Financial Supervisory Service took particular alarm at the fast growth
of deadbeat young people last year, when the ranks of credit delinquents
under age 20 tripled, with the number of those in their 20s shooting up 50
per cent.

"The delinquency ratio is creeping up in line with the explosive growth in
the market," said Seo of JP Morgan Chase.