RE: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: RE: Re: Re: blowing off steam
of course Norton can sincerely say she is for "conservation", but what needs to be added to that is that people like her, to the extent that they do care about the environment, believe that "market" solutions are what is "best" for the environment and that regulation and state intervention lead to environmental destruction as well as a lousy economy, loss of individual freedom, etc. Unless the Dems are willing to stand up against market fetishism they will be weak in responding to these kind of people. the DLC has been pushing market approaches and caved in on the anti-government arguments, so how can they put up a fight against those who say they are for protecting the environment or racial equality or better education or better health care but who think markets are the way to achieve these goals? the only way is to stand up and say that is wrong. markets dont do some things right. at this point the repubs are even taking this idea away, when they say that we need more volunteerism and family values and so on. so they say ok markets dont do everything, but its not the state that should step in, its the church, family, and volunteer organizations. -Original Message- From: J. Barkley Rosser, Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 11:13 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [PEN-L:7709] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: RE: Re: Re: blowing off steam Justin, Well, I am not going to pursue this one further because it is a dead horse, but I will note that the not a single Repug voted against either Ashcroft or Norton while half of the Demoguoges did against Norton and they went 42-8 against Ashcroft. I hardly call the latter "voting for..." BTW, stories out of the Wash Post suggest that Norton has pulled a really fast one and is far right ideologically as she was accused of being and merely succeeded in pulling the wool over peoples' eyes at her confirmation hearing with a lot of nicey nice talk about being for conservation, blah blah. The issue is appointing a Deputy Secretary. She is in a conflict with the White House because she wants to appoint some really hard right type out of Colorado and they want someone more moderate. The guy (no name given) is apparently a more blatant tool of western mining interests than she is. Barkley Rosser -Original Message- From: Justin Schwartz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Friday, February 02, 2001 11:47 AM Subject: [PEN-L:7700] Re: Re: Re: Re: RE: Re: Re: blowing off steam > >Right, Barklay, I never suspected you of being a Virginian right wing nut. I >know the scene from the ground up; I grew up there. As to whether "there is >no difference," as a Nader supporter I never said so. Gore supporters, >however, and other fans of the Dems, have some explaining to do about what >the great advantage of Dems is: vote for us or we'll vote to confirm Norton >and Ashcroft? Please, hand me a barf bag. --jks > >> >>Justin, >> Believe me, I am not defending this. This >>legislature and governor, to quote Al Gore, >>thinks that it is facing "no controlling legal >>authority." >> As regards the wisecrack about virgins, >>well, it has been awhile since they handed out >>stickers here saying "Virginia is for lovers." >> BTW, the Christian Right here has been >>playing heavy handed games for quite some >>time. Quite some time ago, Jerry Falwell's so-called >>Liberty University was up for accreditation. A JMU >>biology prof I know voted against it because of their >>reluctance to allow the teaching of evolution. This >>guy, a friend of mine, was soon receiving late night >>phone calls threatening his life. >>No, I do not welcome Dubya's "faith-based >>initiatives," and I fear that Ashcroft is a sign of more >>nonsense to come. A lot of people who said there >>is no significant difference between Gore and Bush >>may soon figure out otherwise. The Dems here in >>VA were pretty conservative. But they look wonderful >>compared to the lunatics and fanatics running the >>show these days. >>Barkley Rosser >>Professor of Economics >>James Madison University >>Harrisonburg, VA 22807 USA >>http://cob.jmu.edu/rosserjb >>-Original Message- >>From: Justin Schwartz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>Date: Thursday, February 01, 2001 6:09 PM >>Subject: [PEN-L:7683] Re: Re: RE: Re: Re: blowing off steam >> >> >> >Yeah, I would say. There's problems with unconstitutional conditions. >>Btw, >> >are you sure the note must be from a clergy member? That's clear
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: RE: Re: Re: blowing off steam
Justin, Well, I am not going to pursue this one further because it is a dead horse, but I will note that the not a single Repug voted against either Ashcroft or Norton while half of the Demoguoges did against Norton and they went 42-8 against Ashcroft. I hardly call the latter "voting for..." BTW, stories out of the Wash Post suggest that Norton has pulled a really fast one and is far right ideologically as she was accused of being and merely succeeded in pulling the wool over peoples' eyes at her confirmation hearing with a lot of nicey nice talk about being for conservation, blah blah. The issue is appointing a Deputy Secretary. She is in a conflict with the White House because she wants to appoint some really hard right type out of Colorado and they want someone more moderate. The guy (no name given) is apparently a more blatant tool of western mining interests than she is. Barkley Rosser -Original Message- From: Justin Schwartz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Friday, February 02, 2001 11:47 AM Subject: [PEN-L:7700] Re: Re: Re: Re: RE: Re: Re: blowing off steam > >Right, Barklay, I never suspected you of being a Virginian right wing nut. I >know the scene from the ground up; I grew up there. As to whether "there is >no difference," as a Nader supporter I never said so. Gore supporters, >however, and other fans of the Dems, have some explaining to do about what >the great advantage of Dems is: vote for us or we'll vote to confirm Norton >and Ashcroft? Please, hand me a barf bag. --jks > >> >>Justin, >> Believe me, I am not defending this. This >>legislature and governor, to quote Al Gore, >>thinks that it is facing "no controlling legal >>authority." >> As regards the wisecrack about virgins, >>well, it has been awhile since they handed out >>stickers here saying "Virginia is for lovers." >> BTW, the Christian Right here has been >>playing heavy handed games for quite some >>time. Quite some time ago, Jerry Falwell's so-called >>Liberty University was up for accreditation. A JMU >>biology prof I know voted against it because of their >>reluctance to allow the teaching of evolution. This >>guy, a friend of mine, was soon receiving late night >>phone calls threatening his life. >>No, I do not welcome Dubya's "faith-based >>initiatives," and I fear that Ashcroft is a sign of more >>nonsense to come. A lot of people who said there >>is no significant difference between Gore and Bush >>may soon figure out otherwise. The Dems here in >>VA were pretty conservative. But they look wonderful >>compared to the lunatics and fanatics running the >>show these days. >>Barkley Rosser >>Professor of Economics >>James Madison University >>Harrisonburg, VA 22807 USA >>http://cob.jmu.edu/rosserjb >>-Original Message- >>From: Justin Schwartz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>Date: Thursday, February 01, 2001 6:09 PM >>Subject: [PEN-L:7683] Re: Re: RE: Re: Re: blowing off steam >> >> >> >Yeah, I would say. There's problems with unconstitutional conditions. >>Btw, >> >are you sure the note must be from a clergy member? That's clearly >> >unconstitutional. Suppose you object to the pledge cause you are an >>atheist? >> >Btw, I went to primary school in VA, it may explain why I am so strange. >> >--jks >> > >> > >> >>Mat, >> >> Liable to be suspended from school. >> >> The original bill was even stricter, but was >> >>cut back in face of its obvious unconstitutionality >> >>in the face of the 1943 Supreme Court ruling on >> >>this matter. A lot of people think the bill that has >> >>just passed is also unconstitutional. BTW, this >> >>is a followup on last year's law mandating a >> >>required morning "moment of silence" in public >> >>schools. There have been a lot of protests with >> >>students sitting in the halls and getting into various >> >>sorts of trouble. >> >>Barkley Rosser >> >> >> >>-Original Message- >> >>From: Forstater, Mathew <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> >>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> >>Date: Thursday, February 01, 2001 1:38 PM >> >>Subject: [PEN-L:7666] RE: Re: Re: blowing off steam >> >> >> >> >> >> >so if you refuse to say the pledg
Re: Re: Re: Re: RE: Re: Re: blowing off steam
At 10:58 AM 2/2/01 -0500, you wrote: >No, I do not welcome Dubya's "faith-based initiatives," and I fear that >Ashcroft is a sign of more nonsense to come. the good news is that this kind of nonsense almost always provokes a backlash. the bad news is that in the meantime, people will suffer. Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] & http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine
Re: Re: Re: Re: RE: Re: Re: blowing off steam
Right, Barklay, I never suspected you of being a Virginian right wing nut. I know the scene from the ground up; I grew up there. As to whether "there is no difference," as a Nader supporter I never said so. Gore supporters, however, and other fans of the Dems, have some explaining to do about what the great advantage of Dems is: vote for us or we'll vote to confirm Norton and Ashcroft? Please, hand me a barf bag. --jks > >Justin, > Believe me, I am not defending this. This >legislature and governor, to quote Al Gore, >thinks that it is facing "no controlling legal >authority." > As regards the wisecrack about virgins, >well, it has been awhile since they handed out >stickers here saying "Virginia is for lovers." > BTW, the Christian Right here has been >playing heavy handed games for quite some >time. Quite some time ago, Jerry Falwell's so-called >Liberty University was up for accreditation. A JMU >biology prof I know voted against it because of their >reluctance to allow the teaching of evolution. This >guy, a friend of mine, was soon receiving late night >phone calls threatening his life. >No, I do not welcome Dubya's "faith-based >initiatives," and I fear that Ashcroft is a sign of more >nonsense to come. A lot of people who said there >is no significant difference between Gore and Bush >may soon figure out otherwise. The Dems here in >VA were pretty conservative. But they look wonderful >compared to the lunatics and fanatics running the >show these days. >Barkley Rosser >Professor of Economics >James Madison University >Harrisonburg, VA 22807 USA >http://cob.jmu.edu/rosserjb >-Original Message- >From: Justin Schwartz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Date: Thursday, February 01, 2001 6:09 PM >Subject: [PEN-L:7683] Re: Re: RE: Re: Re: blowing off steam > > > >Yeah, I would say. There's problems with unconstitutional conditions. >Btw, > >are you sure the note must be from a clergy member? That's clearly > >unconstitutional. Suppose you object to the pledge cause you are an >atheist? > >Btw, I went to primary school in VA, it may explain why I am so strange. > >--jks > > > > > >>Mat, > >> Liable to be suspended from school. > >> The original bill was even stricter, but was > >>cut back in face of its obvious unconstitutionality > >>in the face of the 1943 Supreme Court ruling on > >>this matter. A lot of people think the bill that has > >>just passed is also unconstitutional. BTW, this > >>is a followup on last year's law mandating a > >>required morning "moment of silence" in public > >>schools. There have been a lot of protests with > >>students sitting in the halls and getting into various > >>sorts of trouble. > >>Barkley Rosser > >> > >>-Original Message- > >>From: Forstater, Mathew <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>Date: Thursday, February 01, 2001 1:38 PM > >>Subject: [PEN-L:7666] RE: Re: Re: blowing off steam > >> > >> > >> >so if you refuse to say the pledge (as I did when I was in 4th grade) >are > >>you > >> >breaking the law and liable to be arrested? > >> > > >> >-Original Message- > >> >From: J. Barkley Rosser, Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > >> >Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 12:00 PM > >> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> >Subject: [PEN-L:7659] Re: Re: blowing off steam > >> > > >> > > >> > Actually the Virginia legislature, now fully dominated > >> >by the Repugs who are seriously beholden to the > >> >Christian Right are going off the deep end. The latest? > >> >They have just passed a 24-hour waiting period on > >> >abortions and also a law requiring students in high > >> >schools to stand and recite the Pledge of Allegiance > >> >every morning. They can only get out with a note from > >> >a clergyperson testifying to their religious or philosophical > >> >objections. > >> > The governor, recently appointed as National > >> >Chair of the Repugs, will sign both of these eagerly. > >> >Barkley Rosser > >> >-Original Message- > >> >From: Margaret Coleman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> >Date: Wednesday, January
Re: Re: Re: RE: Re: Re: blowing off steam
Justin, Believe me, I am not defending this. This legislature and governor, to quote Al Gore, thinks that it is facing "no controlling legal authority." As regards the wisecrack about virgins, well, it has been awhile since they handed out stickers here saying "Virginia is for lovers." BTW, the Christian Right here has been playing heavy handed games for quite some time. Quite some time ago, Jerry Falwell's so-called Liberty University was up for accreditation. A JMU biology prof I know voted against it because of their reluctance to allow the teaching of evolution. This guy, a friend of mine, was soon receiving late night phone calls threatening his life. No, I do not welcome Dubya's "faith-based initiatives," and I fear that Ashcroft is a sign of more nonsense to come. A lot of people who said there is no significant difference between Gore and Bush may soon figure out otherwise. The Dems here in VA were pretty conservative. But they look wonderful compared to the lunatics and fanatics running the show these days. Barkley Rosser Professor of Economics James Madison University Harrisonburg, VA 22807 USA http://cob.jmu.edu/rosserjb -Original Message- From: Justin Schwartz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Thursday, February 01, 2001 6:09 PM Subject: [PEN-L:7683] Re: Re: RE: Re: Re: blowing off steam >Yeah, I would say. There's problems with unconstitutional conditions. Btw, >are you sure the note must be from a clergy member? That's clearly >unconstitutional. Suppose you object to the pledge cause you are an atheist? >Btw, I went to primary school in VA, it may explain why I am so strange. >--jks > > >>Mat, >> Liable to be suspended from school. >> The original bill was even stricter, but was >>cut back in face of its obvious unconstitutionality >>in the face of the 1943 Supreme Court ruling on >>this matter. A lot of people think the bill that has >>just passed is also unconstitutional. BTW, this >>is a followup on last year's law mandating a >>required morning "moment of silence" in public >>schools. There have been a lot of protests with >>students sitting in the halls and getting into various >>sorts of trouble. >>Barkley Rosser >> >>-Original Message- >>From: Forstater, Mathew <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>Date: Thursday, February 01, 2001 1:38 PM >>Subject: [PEN-L:7666] RE: Re: Re: blowing off steam >> >> >> >so if you refuse to say the pledge (as I did when I was in 4th grade) are >>you >> >breaking the law and liable to be arrested? >> > >> >-Original Message- >> >From: J. Barkley Rosser, Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] >> >Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 12:00 PM >> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >Subject: [PEN-L:7659] Re: Re: blowing off steam >> > >> > >> > Actually the Virginia legislature, now fully dominated >> >by the Repugs who are seriously beholden to the >> >Christian Right are going off the deep end. The latest? >> >They have just passed a 24-hour waiting period on >> >abortions and also a law requiring students in high >> >schools to stand and recite the Pledge of Allegiance >> >every morning. They can only get out with a note from >> >a clergyperson testifying to their religious or philosophical >> >objections. >> > The governor, recently appointed as National >> >Chair of the Repugs, will sign both of these eagerly. >> >Barkley Rosser >> >-Original Message- >> >From: Margaret Coleman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> >Date: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 9:12 PM >> >Subject: [PEN-L:7629] Re: blowing off steam >> > >> > >> >>Mike reminded me of how floored I was when I heard about the Virginia >> >>legislature passing laws about where to sleep in the house you own... >>To >> >>make matters even more hypocritical, Virginia is a right to work state >>-- >> >>because unions interfere in the market place. So it's o.k. to stamp out >> >>living wages, but we can't have people falling asleep in front of the TV >>in >> >>the living room. To add to this, right now Virginia and Maryland are >> >>cooperating on rebuilding a bridge which is the main passage between the >> >>states and DC where most white Virginians work. Bushites are talking >>about >> >>stop
Re: Re: RE: Re: Re: blowing off steam
Yeah, I would say. There's problems with unconstitutional conditions. Btw, are you sure the note must be from a clergy member? That's clearly unconstitutional. Suppose you object to the pledge cause you are an atheist? Btw, I went to primary school in VA, it may explain why I am so strange. --jks >Mat, > Liable to be suspended from school. > The original bill was even stricter, but was >cut back in face of its obvious unconstitutionality >in the face of the 1943 Supreme Court ruling on >this matter. A lot of people think the bill that has >just passed is also unconstitutional. BTW, this >is a followup on last year's law mandating a >required morning "moment of silence" in public >schools. There have been a lot of protests with >students sitting in the halls and getting into various >sorts of trouble. >Barkley Rosser > >-Original Message- >From: Forstater, Mathew <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Date: Thursday, February 01, 2001 1:38 PM >Subject: [PEN-L:7666] RE: Re: Re: blowing off steam > > > >so if you refuse to say the pledge (as I did when I was in 4th grade) are >you > >breaking the law and liable to be arrested? > > > >-Original Message- > >From: J. Barkley Rosser, Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > >Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 12:00 PM > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Subject: [PEN-L:7659] Re: Re: blowing off steam > > > > > > Actually the Virginia legislature, now fully dominated > >by the Repugs who are seriously beholden to the > >Christian Right are going off the deep end. The latest? > >They have just passed a 24-hour waiting period on > >abortions and also a law requiring students in high > >schools to stand and recite the Pledge of Allegiance > >every morning. They can only get out with a note from > >a clergyperson testifying to their religious or philosophical > >objections. > > The governor, recently appointed as National > >Chair of the Repugs, will sign both of these eagerly. > >Barkley Rosser > >-Original Message- > >From: Margaret Coleman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Date: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 9:12 PM > >Subject: [PEN-L:7629] Re: blowing off steam > > > > > >>Mike reminded me of how floored I was when I heard about the Virginia > >>legislature passing laws about where to sleep in the house you own... >To > >>make matters even more hypocritical, Virginia is a right to work state >-- > >>because unions interfere in the market place. So it's o.k. to stamp out > >>living wages, but we can't have people falling asleep in front of the TV >in > >>the living room. To add to this, right now Virginia and Maryland are > >>cooperating on rebuilding a bridge which is the main passage between the > >>states and DC where most white Virginians work. Bushites are talking >about > >>stopping the contracting on the bridge because Virginia had to agree to > >>union rules which Maryland upholds. So the bushites are going to try >and > >>force Maryland to accept non-union labor in the bridge construction. My > >>question is, what happened to state's rights? Why are Virginia's states > >>rights to be a right to work state better than Maryland's states rights >to > >>promote unionism? Well, that's a rhetorical question. maggie coleman > >> > >>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >> > >>> I just glanced at a journal of political economy article in condemning > >>> mandates. Mandates are bad, except you want to force schools to get > >>> standardized tests. Local control is good, except when inconveniences > >>> corporations. Then it has to be overruled. Individuals know what is > >>> best, but then Virginia legislates that people must sleep in their > >>> bedrooms. How do get away with such hypocrisy? And who figures out >the > >>> names of their political campaigns -- paycheck protection, death >taxes, > >>> and the like? > >>> -- > >>> Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University >Chico, > >>> CA 95929 > >>> > >>> Tel. 530-898-5321 > >>> E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> > >> > >> > > > > > _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
RE: Re: RE: Re: Re: blowing off steam
Having to live with them was hell, but from a broader perspective they were also the victims of the Pentagon cultureNo, I didn't spit on them (or the many anti-war G.I.'s I worked with from 1965 - 1975 in San Diego and San Francisco). -Original Message- From: Jim Devine [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 1:29 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [PEN-L:7664] Re: RE: Re: Re: blowing off steam At 01:20 PM 2/1/01 -0500, you wrote: >After some protest, the sleeping law was withdrawn. However, such >regulations are not uncommon in many jurisdictions. They are aimed at >keeping poor immigrant families, e.g., 10 people living in one house with 3 >bedrooms, out of the "good" neighborhoods. When I first came to the DC area >I lived in Virginia for one year, in a rental townhouse neighborhood where >the majority of the residents were junior Pentagon officers (and their >ROTTEN, violence-prone kids). I quickly decided to move to the Maryland >side of the area. maybe they could pass a law against military types living there? Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] & http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine
