Secret History of the Magna Carta

2003-07-17 Thread bgramlich
Would whoever posted the link to the Secret History of the Magna Carta please repost 
it.

Thank You,
Benjamin



Re: Secret History of the Magna Carta

2003-07-17 Thread Carrol Cox
I don't remember who posted it originally, but here it is.

http://bostonreview.net/BR28.3/linebaugh.nclk

Carrol


Re: Secret History of the Magna Carta

2003-07-17 Thread bgramlich
thanks!



Re: secret history of the magna carta Michael Perelman

2003-07-07 Thread andie nachgeborenen
Morton's book is only unknown if you're not a fan of
English history. . . . Btw, the Great Charter is
called Magna Carta, not The Magna Carte; it doesn't
take a definite article. Apologies for the pedantic
point, but English constitutional (and popular)
history is a bit of a hobby. Please note that Morton
gets it right (natch). Don't hold his CPishness
against him. The British CP historians were the great
cradle of historical studies in English: E.P.
Thompson, Rodney Hilton, Chritopher Hill, Dana Torr,
E.J. Hobsbawm, Morton himself, all were Communists.
Similarly in France, btw, with Bloch, Soboul and
LeFebre, though I don't know French historiography as
I do English. The CPGB was always a fairly pleasant
and innocuous group. When I was in England in the
early 80s it ran the best newspaper in the country,
The Morning Star (I believe it was called). The Party
has since dissolved.

Linebaugh is generally quite good, writes well. His
The London Hanged is a genuine masterpiece. His more
recent coathored Many Headed Baest, though it has some
very nice bits, apparently has some real problems.
David Brion Davis, a very able bourgeois scholar of
the period and an expert on slavery, did a hatchet job
on it in the NYRB, some of it was manifestly
ideologically motivated, but if Davis is write
Linebaugh may an inexcusable # of plain factual errors
in the new book. jks


--- Hari Kumar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Thank M, for a good reading tip.
[Since
 when did stop the ruling class puts its imprint on
 anything?]
 Since I am not an expert on middle age law, I found
 myself retreating to
 my usual Guide to English History as a first resort:
 the much
 under-known  largely ignored Peoples History of
 England, by
 A.L.Morton; First 1938 most recently 1974 Lawrence 
 Wishart. I still
 think that sometimes less is more. Not that the
 thrust of Linebuagh's
 article extolling the Commons and the commoner
 should be forgot. This
 was also the message of others in the past such as
 JL  Barbara Hammond
 amongst many others. We will not even discuss Marx's
 excoriation of
 those like the Duchess of Argylle.
 Anyway, that old hack Stalinist -pickaxe wielding
 nutcase Morton has
 this to say -  I think is more historically
 relevant in the big . . . John was to some extent of
a popular
 character. Unwillingly be
 submitted, and at Runnymede on June 15th, 1215, he
 accepted the
 programme of demands embodied by the barons in Magna
 Carta.
 Magna Carta has been rightly regarded as a turning
 point in English
 history, but almost always for wrong reasons. It was
 not a
 'constitutional' document.

__
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Re: secret history of the magna carta Michael Perelman

2003-07-06 Thread Hari Kumar
Thank M, for a good reading tip.
As i read the very interesting piece from Linebaugh however, I found a
sort of yearning for a past utopia.
His critique of Robertson he cites early on, discredits Robertson -
apparently upon the lack of evidence that King John was literate. [Since
when did stop the ruling class puts its imprint on anything?]
Since I am not an expert on middle age law, I found myself retreating to
my usual Guide to English History as a first resort: the much
under-known  largely ignored Peoples History of England, by
A.L.Morton; First 1938 most recently 1974 Lawrence  Wishart. I still
think that sometimes less is more. Not that the thrust of Linebuagh's
article extolling the Commons and the commoner should be forgot. This
was also the message of others in the past such as JL  Barbara Hammond
amongst many others. We will not even discuss Marx's excoriation of
those like the Duchess of Argylle.
Anyway, that old hack Stalinist -pickaxe wielding nutcase Morton has
this to say -  I think is more historically relevant in the big
picture:
  “In the last resort the barons retained the right of rebellion. This
was always a desperate expedient, and in England, where the power of the
Crown was greatest and that of the barons least, it was almost hopeless.
Even the strongest combination of barons had failed to defeat the Crown
when, as in 1095 and in 1106, it had the support of other classes and
sections of the population.
John, ablest and most unscrupulous of the Angevin kings, did make the
attempt to pass beyond the powers which the Crown could claim without a
violation of the feudal contract. He levied excessive fines and aids in
ways and on occasions not authorised by custom; he confiscated the
estates of his vassals without a judgement in court; he arbitrarily
called up cases from the baronial courts to his own royal courts. In'
short, he showed no respect for law or custom. His administrative
machinery directly threatened baronial rights, and indeed the rights of
all free men, of all, that is, who were concerned with keeping in
effective working order the feudal state, one of whose main objects, it
must never be forgotten, was to keep in their place the mass of serfs
and cottagers. Nor were his innovations confined to the barons. The
Church was similarly treated, and the towns, which during the two
previous generations had been growing increasingly con-scious of their
corporate rights, were made to pay all kinds of new taxes and dues.
Ile result was the complete isolation of the Crown from those sections
that had previously been its strongest supporters. John was peculiarly
unfortunate in that his attack on the Church was made when it was at one
of its periods of exceptional strength under a superb political
tactician, Pope Innocent III.
Even so, it is possible that he might have been success-ful but for the
failure of his foreign policy. A dispute over the succession with his
nephew Arthur led him into a long war with France. One by one he lost
the provinces his father had held, including the dukedom of Normandy.
The loss of Normandy meant for many of the English barons the loss of
huge ancestral estates. In their eyes John had failed in his first duty,
that of guarding the fiefs of his vassals.
At the same time the loss of their foreign possessions made them more
anxious to preserve those still held in England.
At this moment, having lost the support of the barons, John became
involved in a direct dispute with Innocent III over the filling of the
vacant Archbishopric of Canter-bury. Ignoring the King's nominee, and
contrary to the well-established custom, Innocent consecrated Stephen
Langton, and to enforce the appointment placed England under an
interdict. He followed this by declaring John excommunicated and
deposed, and persuaded the kings of France and Scotland to make war on
him. John organ-ised a counter alliance which included Flanders and the
Emperor. His forces were crushed at the Battle of Bou-vines in 1214 and
the English barons refused to fight. Even a last minute submission to
Innocent failed to win back the support of the Church in England, and
Langton con-tinued to act as the brain of the baronial revolt.
John stood alone. It was not even possible for him to call out the fyrd,
which in the past had been the trump card of the Crown in its struggles
with the nobility. This fact in itself indicates that the movement
against John was to some extent of a popular character. Unwillingly be
submitted, and at Runnymede on June 15th, 1215, he accepted the
programme of demands embodied by the barons in Magna Carta.
Magna Carta has been rightly regarded as a turning point in English
history, but almost always for wrong reasons. It was not a
'constitutional' document. It did not embody the principle of no
taxation without representa-tion. It did not guarantee parliamentary
government, since Parliament did not then exist. It did not establish
the right to trial by jury, since, in fact, the 

secret history of the magna carta

2003-07-05 Thread Michael Perelman
Another excellent piece by Peter Linebaugh
http://bostonreview.net/BR28.3/linebaugh.nclk

--
Michael Perelman
Economics Department
California State University
Chico, CA 95929

Tel. 530-898-5321
E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]