Re: Zoning the Workspace

1994-04-12 Thread Michael Lichter

 Sort of sounds like "gopher" or the Unix Usenet news, both of which have a
 hierarchical structure.  If we're stuck with internet/bitnet mailing 
 lists, one possiblility would be more heavy moderation: with summaries 
 of postings and subject classification.

Actually, it sounds more like private bulletin board services that
allow users to conditionally "subscribe" to "threads" which can be
started by any user.  It would be nice if we could do this, but it's
not practical without building a system external to regular mail.  The
hierarchy of USENET is all in the naming, not in the functioning of
individual newsgroups.  If this were sci.econ.progressive, the problems
would be the same, because you can't just create
sci.econ.progressive.ltv or sci.econ.progressive.pedagogy on an ad hoc
basis.  Threaded newsreaders help a bit -- is there such a thing as a
threaded mail reader?  Don't think so.

Given that the technology isn't available (exists but isn't freely
accessible), is the status quo really so bad?

Michael



Re: Zoning the Workspace

1994-04-12 Thread Samuel G. Pooley

In response to Sam Lanfranco's interesting missive on the heterogeneity of
our electronic workspace and the problems ahead in "allocating" it, I
would suggest that the problem is not one of the "commons" as defined by
economists. Economists missed the boat. Even on picnics. This is a
cooperative commons without privatized reasons for "grabbing" space (as
long as the commons as Pen-l is not privatized by the InterNet pirates). 
Indeed, the "common" practice in this quite homogenous setting is for
people to __share__ the space. Unfortunately most of us are unlikely to be
able to share the work involved in making new sub-lists (Michael gets too
little credit for his work in that neighborhood). But it is obvious that
most of the Pen-l participants have worked pretty hard at keeping the
space tidy, interesting, and fruitful. 

Rather than the tragedy of the commons, it's the wonder of the commons.

---
Sam Pooley 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
---







Re: Zoning the Workspace

1994-04-12 Thread Marshall Feldman

Sam Lanfranco write:

.. [lots of good stuff deleted]

>What we need is an ability to flexibly configure, reconfigure, archive and
>close down multiple virtual workspaces "in the same neighbourhood". The
>CSU site has become our community storage locker of sorts, but we still only
>have one meeting room. We need the capacity to set up sub-groups "on the fly"
>and we need to persuade ourselves to become "rapportours" to report back what
>happened in our block. This means we are going to have to figure out how to
>command more of the abundant resource (listservs, gopher sites, etc.) and how
>to 'ZONE" them for appropriate use. By zoning I don't mean passing virtual
>laws saying what is done where, I mean setting polite rules of conduct which
>govern what consenting adults can do where on "our" part of the internet.

.. [lots more good stuff deleted]


Sort of sounds like "gopher" or the Unix Usenet news, both of which have a
hierarchical structure.  If we're stuck with internet/bitnet mailing lists,
one possiblility would be more heavy moderation: with summaries of postings
and subject classification.

Marsh Feldman
Community Planning  Phone: 401/792-2248
204 Rodman Hall   FAX: 401/792-4395
University of Rhode Island   Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Kingston, RI 02881-0815



Zoning the Workspace

1994-04-12 Thread Sam Lanfranco

Remember: You read it here first!

The small issue about the volume and mix of traffic on Pen-L is a recurrent
episode on the more dynamic lists with heterogeneous subscriber bases. It
is worth reflecting for a dozen lines or so on the causes, implications and
solutions. The first KEY point is that this virtual workspace is becoming as
REAL as the time and space bounded material workspace we spend the rest of
our time working in. It is becoming a RESOURCE, an input into intellectual
production, and social action production. (of course it will be a resource
in the sale of old movies and fresh pizzas but that is another channel). As
a resource is has a crucial scarcity component, our TIME. We have a classic
allocation problem here with all the issues of the commons, the town hall,
etc.

What we need is an ability to flexibly configure, reconfigure, archive and
close down multiple virtual workspaces "in the same neighbourhood". The
CSU site has become our community storage locker of sorts, but we still only
have one meeting room. We need the capacity to set up sub-groups "on the fly"
and we need to persuade ourselves to become "rapportours" to report back what
happened in our block. This means we are going to have to figure out how to
command more of the abundant resource (listservs, gopher sites, etc.) and how
to 'ZONE" them for appropriate use. By zoning I don't mean passing virtual
laws saying what is done where, I mean setting polite rules of conduct which
govern what consenting adults can do where on "our" part of the internet.

I make these point only to sketch out the task before us. Most of us stumbled
into this virtual workspace thinking we had found a wonderful add-on. Some of
us think it was more like making a pact with the Devil, especially if one is
foolish enough to manage a site. Hopefully, the rest will realize that it is
"one more world" in which social action, political process, the struggle of
the common good vs. private gain, are all reproduced. It goes beyond that of
course since the two worlds, virtual and material, are becoming all part of
one common process. The resources of the New World were (a) stolen from their
original custodians, (b) incorporated into global capitalism, and (c) the
hotbed for democratic tendencies. The resources of the Virtual world are now
the same sort of frontier. Until such time as the PEN-L cohort's have been
able to secure their on line resources they will face the "zoning" problem
and remain dependent on the good will of sites and listmanagers. I note in
closing that we have a non-political world class listserv here (on Mark Twain)
being run by a couple of students. They are about to leave and the University
response is: "they go, list dies.", next item. Important point there!

The problem will not go away. How to maintain a "workspace" with multiple
"rooms" and how to "zone" the work for equity and efficiency? The problem
will not go away.  In the mean time  we are all picnicing on the same
commons (PEN-L in this case) and the time honoured way of keeping one's
item on the table is to simple grab space. The lessons of the Commons do
warn us of the downside risk but until such time as, for example, the LTV
picnicers can be configured (on the fly) to run their list for a while,
it will be a crowded site. To a civil and cordial picnic.

Sam Lanfranco, [EMAIL PROTECTED]   Canada