Re: Web Module (Was: Perl6 new features)
On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 20:30:36 +0200, Juerd Waalboer wrote: A useful, easily installable library bundle does not have to be in the core distribution. Debian already has its own split between perl and perl-modules. This is a great scheme that allows Debian to use Perl in the base system, without requiring the loads of unused modules that usually come with it. If you need those modules, though, you can easily install them. That is such a specialized application that it would make sense to release two distributions of Perl: Perl 6 Perl 6 for OS and embedded systems integrators -- Peter Scott http://www.perlmedic.com/ http://www.perldebugged.com/
Re: Web Module (Was: Perl6 new features)
On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 09:57:18 +0200, Hakim Cassimally wrote: On 23/06/07, chromatic [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Friday 22 June 2007 11:07:35 Chas Owens wrote: Please, god, no. Or at least make two distributions: Bare Perl 6 and Perl 6. Many companies have a Only Core Perl policy. They refuse to install CPAN modules because We don't trust them. I think of this the same way I think of Do not drink even if you mix with beer labels on bleach bottles. Stupid people often remove their genes from the pool. We should not discourage stupid business practices from doing the same. Releasing a language without a useful, easily installable library bundle could quite reasonably be construed as a stupid business practice. I will just voice my support for putting best-of-breed modules for very common tasks (CGI, DBI for sure) in the core. It may not be elegant, but it is practical... and Perl has weighed in on that side of the dilemma before. I think part of Perl 4's success was the one stop shopping availability of numerous useful functions that would otherwise have required linking in a library, e.g. dbmopen, crypt, shmget, gethostbyaddr, math functions, etc. I think the synergistic effect of the combination of all these functions being so readily available helped Perl take off. Please continue the tradition of tending to err on the side of practical over elegant. It may not seem rational that avoiding the need to type cpan Foo::Bar makes a huge difference, but I believe it does, for certain modules. -- Peter Scott http://www.perlmedic.com/ http://www.perldebugged.com/
Re: Web Module (Was: Perl6 new features)
On 6/25/07, Peter Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I will just voice my support for putting best-of-breed modules for very common tasks (CGI, DBI for sure) in the core. Of course, then you get the disadvantage that most users will see new versions of those modules as often (or seldom, as it were) as perl itself. Luke
Re: Web Module (Was: Perl6 new features)
How about a Bundle::Common? Streamline both the core and the inclusion of the most commonly used modules? The core does include the CPAN module, right? Personally, I *prefer* grabbing what I need piecemeal, but I understand making it easy if possible --- Luke Palmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 6/25/07, Peter Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I will just voice my support for putting best-of-breed modules for very common tasks (CGI, DBI for sure) in the core. Of course, then you get the disadvantage that most users will see new versions of those modules as often (or seldom, as it were) as perl itself. Luke === Hodges' Rule of Thumb: Don't expect reasonable behavior from anything with a thumb. Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder tool. http://autos.yahoo.com/carfinder/
Re: Web Module (Was: Perl6 new features)
Hakim Cassimally skribis 2007-06-25 9:57 (+0200): Releasing a language without a useful, easily installable library bundle could quite reasonably be construed as a stupid business practice. A useful, easily installable library bundle does not have to be in the core distribution. Debian already has its own split between perl and perl-modules. This is a great scheme that allows Debian to use Perl in the base system, without requiring the loads of unused modules that usually come with it. If you need those modules, though, you can easily install them. It would be great if Perl had this by default, because it would make it easier for vendors to choose to use Perl in their base system. It would also make Perl a more attractive choice for embedded systems. -- korajn salutojn, juerd waalboer: perl hacker [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://juerd.nl/sig convolution: ict solutions and consultancy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Web Module (Was: Perl6 new features)
On Monday 25 June 2007 00:57:18 Hakim Cassimally wrote: Releasing a language without a useful, easily installable library bundle could quite reasonably be construed as a stupid business practice. Of course. Yet some dozen years later, the argument for keeping interfaces such as File::Find (because sysadmins should learn all about closures and callbacks but can only understand global variables) and code such as CGI.pm (it was SelfLoader before SelfLoader was cool and *that* was a while ago) in the Perl 5 core has absolutely nothing to do with quality, ease of use, or suitability for the problem domain and everything to do with incidentally having been first and, thus, immediate evolutionary dead ends. -- c
Re: Web Module (Was: Perl6 new features)
Getting back to the Web Module, the following could help a lot if there were in the core or as a 'core' downloadable bundle : - DBI - ORM system - Caching system - Sessions (server side cookies) - XML parser - JSON parser I guess that it will be fair enough for actual web apps. templating system that could be hooked or using flex points, classes related to CRUD,scaffolding,input filtering, unit testing could be a plus but could sound more like a framework than a programming language^^; I've certainly forgotten many things but that's what came up at the moment.
Re: Web Module (Was: Perl6 new features)
Juerd Waalboer writes: Smylers skribis 2007-06-21 23:23 (+0100): Of course. But there's a big difference between the attitude of 'let's do the best we can right now' and 'this is our one chance to do this right'. I think that for some things, mainly for setting community standards (Web, POD, ...), this is our one chance to get it right, for the next two decades. Fair enough. Obviously it would be great if that happened, and by the time the code part of Perl 6 is releasable we have all those other things. But if we get to the state where core Perl 6 is ready to unleash on the world as a stable release, but it's still the case that: * The OO documentation, while readable and complete, if given a little more structure would be better for computer parsing. * We haven't finalized the Web module. * There isn't a fully working Perl 6 implementation of 'Duke Nukem Forever' in the examples/ subdirectory. ... then I don't think it would be worth holding up Perl 6.0.0.'s release to wait for any of those things to happen. Smylers
Re: Web Module (Was: Perl6 new features)
On Thursday 21 June 2007 15:23:38 Smylers wrote: Has Larry yet decreed whether Web will be bundled with Perl 6? I also like to proceed from the assumption that the only core modules should be those required to install other modules. -- c
Re: Web Module (Was: Perl6 new features)
On 6/22/07, chromatic [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thursday 21 June 2007 15:23:38 Smylers wrote: Has Larry yet decreed whether Web will be bundled with Perl 6? I also like to proceed from the assumption that the only core modules should be those required to install other modules. -- c Please, god, no. Or at least make two distributions: Bare Perl 6 and Perl 6. Many companies have a Only Core Perl policy. They refuse to install CPAN modules because We don't trust them. Yeah, it is stupid, but as a contractor I have limited ability to fight their ignorance.
Re: Web Module (Was: Perl6 new features)
On Fri, Jun 22, 2007 at 02:07:35PM -0400, Chas Owens wrote: On 6/22/07, chromatic [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I also like to proceed from the assumption that the only core modules should be those required to install other modules. Please, god, no. Or at least make two distributions: Bare Perl 6 and Perl 6. Many companies have a Only Core Perl policy. They refuse to install CPAN modules because We don't trust them. Yeah, it is stupid, but as a contractor I have limited ability to fight their ignorance. Sounds like a bare Perl 6 distribution might be just what you need to get them to weaken their restriction to only modules with a good cpanrating or, best of all, evaluate each module according to its merits. Well, actually, I'm not sure that last one would be best, as getting each module evaluating would almost inevitably entail getting five or six high-up people together, none of whom have any interest in you getting your job done, and who probably hate each others' guts, and getting them to commit to some form of responsibility-generating paper- trail. Call me cynical if you like, but I prefer to call it, experienced. -- It must be accepted as a principle that the rifle, effective as it is, cannot replace the effect produced by the speed of the horse, the magnetism of the charge, and the terror of cold steel. -- British Cavalry training manual, 1907 ::: http://surreal.istic.org/ signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Web Module (Was: Perl6 new features)
On 6/22/07, Chas Owens [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Most of the time the policy is enacted by lower-case-l lazy sysadmins who can't be bothered to type perl -MCPAN -e install Foo::Bar My normal route around them is to install the module into the home directory of the user who is going to run the script, but I have had difficulty with this before when it comes time to move to production: Where is the code review for that code?. My answer of where is the code review for that (often open source) database install you just did? doesn't tend to hold the weight I wish it did. For some reason binary blobs make some types of sysadmins feel all fuzzy and warm inside. so use the parrot back end and compile all the modules to bytecode. oh, and you can merge the foreign module bytecode with the bytecode for your application, so it's all one big happy binary file. in fact, parrot will even provide a way to compile bytecode to a native executable which contains parrot itself. there, now you've got a proper binary with *zero* external requirements in the production environment--it doesn't even need to have parrot installed. at that point, i'd be surprised if the release engineers or sysadmins even notice. ~jerry
Re: Web Module (Was: Perl6 new features)
On 6/22/07, jerry gay [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 6/22/07, Chas Owens [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Most of the time the policy is enacted by lower-case-l lazy sysadmins who can't be bothered to type perl -MCPAN -e install Foo::Bar My normal route around them is to install the module into the home directory of the user who is going to run the script, but I have had difficulty with this before when it comes time to move to production: Where is the code review for that code?. My answer of where is the code review for that (often open source) database install you just did? doesn't tend to hold the weight I wish it did. For some reason binary blobs make some types of sysadmins feel all fuzzy and warm inside. so use the parrot back end and compile all the modules to bytecode. oh, and you can merge the foreign module bytecode with the bytecode for your application, so it's all one big happy binary file. in fact, parrot will even provide a way to compile bytecode to a native executable which contains parrot itself. there, now you've got a proper binary with *zero* external requirements in the production environment--it doesn't even need to have parrot installed. at that point, i'd be surprised if the release engineers or sysadmins even notice. ~jerry Good point. I am still to stuck in the Perl 5 mind set.
Re: Web Module (Was: Perl6 new features)
On Friday 22 June 2007 11:07:35 Chas Owens wrote: Please, god, no. Or at least make two distributions: Bare Perl 6 and Perl 6. Many companies have a Only Core Perl policy. They refuse to install CPAN modules because We don't trust them. I think of this the same way I think of Do not drink even if you mix with beer labels on bleach bottles. Stupid people often remove their genes from the pool. We should not discourage stupid business practices from doing the same. -- c
Re: Web Module (Was: Perl6 new features)
On 6/22/07, chromatic [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Friday 22 June 2007 11:07:35 Chas Owens wrote: Please, god, no. Or at least make two distributions: Bare Perl 6 and Perl 6. Many companies have a Only Core Perl policy. They refuse to install CPAN modules because We don't trust them. I think of this the same way I think of Do not drink even if you mix with beer labels on bleach bottles. Stupid people often remove their genes from the pool. We should not discourage stupid business practices from doing the same. -- c I still need to earn a paycheck, and I would rather do it with Perl than with Java. Fighting my customers stupidity, instead of working around it, is a good way to stop earning my paycheck. But, as Jerry pointed out, it will be a lot easier to hide module usage in Perl 6. Get a code review sign off from people who aren't idiots, compile it all to bytecode, and hand off the binary file to the schmucks who are the problem.
Re: Web Module (Was: Perl6 new features)
The fact that you'll be able to do that in Perl6 excites me. One of the things I use with the existing Perl5 unfortunately at times, is commercial software which compiles Perl code into various Microsoft formats: services, system tray icons, dll's and executables. That proved to be extremely valuable to me when I was thrown the responsibility of designing implementing and maintaining an Active Directory environment. I've been writing Perl for years, and truly did not want to learn to code MS's way. I liked Perl. I think that it would be truly a valuable thing to have the ability to distribute Perl as executable binaries, completely stand alone and independance from the need of module installation on the client side. Especially with the way things are going in the market place, if we can truly get cross-platform compiles that would be in the words of a tru comedian, Dyno--mite. Perl saves me from proprietaries *sic* on a daily basis. Its easy for me to pay for a commercial product to compile Perl5 into executable modules i release for system changes via Group Policies etc. I just wish I didn't have to pay for that commercial product to help me love Perl. -I On Fri, 2007-06-22 at 18:36 -0400, Chas Owens wrote: On 6/22/07, chromatic [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Friday 22 June 2007 11:07:35 Chas Owens wrote: Please, god, no. Or at least make two distributions: Bare Perl 6 and Perl 6. Many companies have a Only Core Perl policy. They refuse to install CPAN modules because We don't trust them. I think of this the same way I think of Do not drink even if you mix with beer labels on bleach bottles. Stupid people often remove their genes from the pool. We should not discourage stupid business practices from doing the same. -- c I still need to earn a paycheck, and I would rather do it with Perl than with Java. Fighting my customers stupidity, instead of working around it, is a good way to stop earning my paycheck. But, as Jerry pointed out, it will be a lot easier to hide module usage in Perl 6. Get a code review sign off from people who aren't idiots, compile it all to bytecode, and hand off the binary file to the schmucks who are the problem.
Re: Web Module (Was: Perl6 new features)
Moritz Lenz writes: You could help by contributing some suggestions to what the new Web module should be able to do, and how so. Web is hopefully CGI done right, and still in its early planning stage. Web module? This is the first I've heard of it. Where is it being planned, if not on this list? Also, why are we hoping that it will be done right? Given the history of things like this it strikes me as unlikely that now is the particular moment where we suddenly manage to create a perfect library, and as such this would be hoping against the light of available evidence! It seems entirely possible that during Perl 6's life somebody, possibly somebody who at the moment hasn't even heard of Perl 6, will create a better web module. It would be good if at that point it becomes straightforward for it to get acceptance and people to adopt it. Smylers
Re: Web Module (Was: Perl6 new features)
Darren Duncan writes: At 6:37 PM +0100 6/21/07, Smylers wrote: Web module? This is the first I've heard of it. Where is it being planned, if not on this list? It was being discussed on the perl6-users list, last year. Thanks. Smylers
Re: Web Module (Was: Perl6 new features)
Smylers wrote: Moritz Lenz writes: You could help by contributing some suggestions to what the new Web module should be able to do, and how so. Web is hopefully CGI done right, and still in its early planning stage. Web module? This is the first I've heard of it. Where is it being planned, if not on this list? Also, why are we hoping that it will be done right? Because we hope we learned from the past. There are several other modules that fullfill most of CGI's tasks, some of them do most of it better. Reimplementing one of them would already make Web a better CGI ;-) Given the history of things like this it strikes me as unlikely that now is the particular moment where we suddenly manage to create a perfect library, and as such this would be hoping against the light of available evidence! You're right, but we should ship things as best as we can, so we try ;-) It seems entirely possible that during Perl 6's life somebody, possibly somebody who at the moment hasn't even heard of Perl 6, will create a better web module. It would be good if at that point it becomes straightforward for it to get acceptance and people to adopt it. Right, but that's no reason not to try hard on your own. Moritz -- Moritz Lenz http://moritz.faui2k3.org/ | http://perl-6.de/ signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Web Module (Was: Perl6 new features)
Moritz Lenz writes: Smylers wrote: Moritz Lenz writes: Web is hopefully CGI done right ... why are we hoping that it will be done right? Because we hope we learned from the past. There are several other modules that fullfill most of CGI's tasks, some of them do most of it better. Reimplementing one of them would already make Web a better CGI ;-) Indeed -- making a better CGI is a great idea. But the fact that such innovations came along later supports my point. I suspect that some of these got less mindshare than they otherwise would have done (or were seen as inferior to CGI) because: * The CGI module was core. * By being called simply CGI, the CGI module gets some kind of superiority over all the other modules which have to be CGI::Something. Has Larry yet decreed whether Web will be bundled with Perl 6? Given the history of things like this it strikes me as unlikely that now is the particular moment where we suddenly manage to create a perfect library, and as such this would be hoping against the light of available evidence! You're right, but we should ship things as best as we can, so we try ;-) Of course. But there's a big difference between the attitude of 'let's do the best we can right now' and 'this is our one chance to do this right'. It seems entirely possible that during Perl 6's life somebody, possibly somebody who at the moment hasn't even heard of Perl 6, will create a better web module. It would be good if at that point it becomes straightforward for it to get acceptance and people to adopt it. Right, but that's no reason not to try hard on your own. It isn't. But it is a reason to anticipate the existence of future developments, and try to be careful not to do anything which makes life harder for them. Smylers
Re: Perl6 new features
cdumont wrote: I know that perl doesn't only focus on web apps and my question might seem irrelevant but I've been searching the web in order to find the new features of perl6 regarding new functions, core module lists (not perl grammar itself) but couldn't find any thing... Perl 6 is not yet finished, so the the list of core modules is not yet specified. I would like to develop web apps with perl too but having to download modules from CPAN every time makes me feel these apps will never be able to evoluate in different environments. (environments you don't have control of) That's a general problem with libraries, not only Perl ones. And you can't solve this by putting everything into core - it just blows up the distribution. I am a bit amazing to see that perl doesn't include a bunch a set theory functions too. Perl 6 does. See for example ext/Set/ in the pugs repository. And so does Perl 5: http://search.cpan.org/~samv/Set-Object-1.21/lib/Set/Object.pm I am not blaming perl but only hopes that perl6 will allow to make things easy for the programmer. That's one of the most important design goals ;-) as for the web, maintaining state thru server side cookies and DBI are the very minimum I would recommend. more hash and array functions a minimum too. if there are such things in perl6, I'll be very happy to work with this language ! You could help by contributing some suggestions to what the new Web module should be able to do, and how so. Web is hopefully CGI done right, and still in its early planning stage. Cheers, Moritz -- Moritz Lenz http://moritz.faui2k3.org/ | http://perl-6.de/ signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Perl6 new features
Thank you for your kind reply ! Perl 6 is not yet finished, so the the list of core modules is not yet specified. I know that it is somehow not the subject, but I think the actual 5.8 doc should be changed to some extents. It could be nice if we could browse each core functions, having the function parameters, flags (not that much used right?), and the return value of the function, followed by exampleS AND so that it could be a lot richer, allow people to comment... I know this is not the point but it could be nice to do so for perl6 ! (I was thinking to create a kind of site like that for the actual perl, but my programming competences are,well... ) Perl 6 does. See for example ext/Set/ in the pugs repository. Glad to hear that ! You could help by contributing some suggestions to what the new Web module should be able to do, and how so. Web is hopefully CGI done right, and still in its early planning stage. Web module is a good name. Is there a place where we can add suggestions ? apart from the first one in... 2003 ? 4 years ago ? Moritz Lenz wrote: cdumont wrote: I know that perl doesn't only focus on web apps and my question might seem irrelevant but I've been searching the web in order to find the new features of perl6 regarding new functions, core module lists (not perl grammar itself) but couldn't find any thing... Perl 6 is not yet finished, so the the list of core modules is not yet specified. I would like to develop web apps with perl too but having to download modules from CPAN every time makes me feel these apps will never be able to evoluate in different environments. (environments you don't have control of) That's a general problem with libraries, not only Perl ones. And you can't solve this by putting everything into core - it just blows up the distribution. I am a bit amazing to see that perl doesn't include a bunch a set theory functions too. Perl 6 does. See for example ext/Set/ in the pugs repository. And so does Perl 5: http://search.cpan.org/~samv/Set-Object-1.21/lib/Set/Object.pm I am not blaming perl but only hopes that perl6 will allow to make things easy for the programmer. That's one of the most important design goals ;-) as for the web, maintaining state thru server side cookies and DBI are the very minimum I would recommend. more hash and array functions a minimum too. if there are such things in perl6, I'll be very happy to work with this language ! You could help by contributing some suggestions to what the new Web module should be able to do, and how so. Web is hopefully CGI done right, and still in its early planning stage. Cheers, Moritz -- シリル・デュモン（Cyrille Dumont） [EMAIL PROTECTED] our work is the portrait of ourselves tel: 03-5690-0230 fax: 03-5690-7366 http://www.comquest.co.j
Re: Perl6 new features
2007/6/20, cdumont [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I know that it is somehow not the subject, but I think the actual 5.8 doc should be changed to some extents. snip AND so that it could be a lot richer, allow people to comment... Well you can't comment it (CPAN Annotate allow you to comment the doc of any CPAN module though), but the perl documentation is quite extensive, and I for one don't understand what you mean by : It could be nice if we could browse each core functions, having the function parameters, flags (not that much used right?), and the return value of the function, followed by exampleS it seems to me that you already have this : in line of command you can use perldoc -f split to get the split() doc, where there are examples and return value and parameters are discussed at length, if you prefer a modern format, http://perldoc.perl.org/functions/split.html should content you, and you can use Pod::POM::Web to get a small HTTP server where all Perl doc (core and modules) can be browsed and searched, so what exactly are you speaking about ? -- Jedaï
Re: Perl6 new features
A: because it disrupts the natural way of thinking. Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? cdumont wrote: Perl 6 is not yet finished, so the the list of core modules is not yet specified. I know that it is somehow not the subject, but I think the actual 5.8 doc should be changed to some extents. You should discuss that on p5p, not here. Only Perl 6 is on topic here. Is there a place where we can add suggestions ? apart from the first one in... 2003 ? 4 years ago ? You can write them here on p6l. -- Moritz Lenz http://moritz.faui2k3.org/ | http://perl-6.de/ signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Perl6 new features
You should discuss that on p5p, not here. Only Perl 6 is on topic here. Sure, but I've started from perl doc 5.8 in order to say that it could be nice to have the features I'm talking about in perl6 so it's not out of the scope I guess. it seems to me that you already have this : in line of command you can use perldoc -f split to get the split() doc, where there are examples and return value and parameters are discussed at length, if you prefer a modern format, http://perldoc.perl.org/functions/split.html should content you, and you can use Pod::POM::Web to get a small HTTP server where all Perl doc (core and modules) can be browsed and searched, so what exactly are you speaking about ? As for the documentation, I've already watched this link and depending on the functions, informations are more or left complete. In the case of split there are quite few examples but it's not the case for a lot of documentations. http://perldoc.perl.org/functions/chop.html http://perldoc.perl.org/functions/lc.html You might say that it doesn't need more but Adding user comments within the doc could allow to get much more usefull examples and 'tips' from other programmers. not a full blown oop cpan module but just a useful adding, transforming, real word use of the function. http://perldoc.perl.org/functions/pack.html This is an other function well documented. But if in split, the result of the example is included below the code with a sentence such as 'produces...' here, it is a comment below the line, or 'gives...' There's no real common pattern to get in a glimpse the function use. A kind of standardisation could help. (what are the arguments names, i've just found : EXPR, VALUE, Y,X,VARIABLE,NUMBER,PLAINTEXT...) there is a standard but it's not very as evident as it could be. function parameters,flags function return : .success:... .failure:... Example : ... Output : ... Well i'm talking about the 5.8 but remember it's in order to know if there can be ways of improvement for perl6 doc. Moritz Lenz wrote: A: because it disrupts the natural way of thinking. Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? cdumont wrote: Perl 6 is not yet finished, so the the list of core modules is not yet specified. I know that it is somehow not the subject, but I think the actual 5.8 doc should be changed to some extents. You should discuss that on p5p, not here. Only Perl 6 is on topic here. Is there a place where we can add suggestions ? apart from the first one in... 2003 ? 4 years ago ? You can write them here on p6l. -- シリル・デュモン（Cyrille Dumont） [EMAIL PROTECTED] our work is the portrait of ourselves tel: 03-5690-0230 fax: 03-5690-7366 http://www.comquest.co.j
Perl6 new features
Hi everyone, I am working with perl 5.8 at the moment after developping web apps in PHP. I know that perl doesn't only focus on web apps and my question might seem irrelevant but I've been searching the web in order to find the new features of perl6 regarding new functions, core module lists (not perl grammar itself) but couldn't find any thing... I would like to develop web apps with perl too but having to download modules from CPAN every time makes me feel these apps will never be able to evoluate in different environments. (environments you don't have control of) I am a bit amazing to see that perl doesn't include a bunch a set theory functions too. Instead, need to reinvent the wheel making things easy possible and hard things unconvenient. I am not blaming perl but only hopes that perl6 will allow to make things easy for the programmer. as for the web, maintaining state thru server side cookies and DBI are the very minimum I would recommend. more hash and array functions a minimum too. if there are such things in perl6, I'll be very happy to work with this language ! I may not know enough about perl and my 'complain' might be absolutely unfounded. I know this is an open source language and that people are busy and if the answer is DIY ! I'll pass my way^^; Anyway, this is an outside view from 2007 hoping to help perl6 becoming popular amongst people.
