Re: [GENERAL] FREE hosting platforms with PostgreSQL, Java SDK, Tomcat, ecc.?
Hello Fernando, I was sorry to read the harsh responses your request got here. The thing that has always appealed to me about the free software movement is the spirit of cooperation and mutual help that many involved exhibit. You quite rightly point out the hypocrisy of those who call someone a freeloader when they themselves use free software in profit making ventures without sharing their profits with the software's developers and contributors. Please be assured that not everyone here reacted negatively to your post. I wish you success in your search. -- Sent via pgsql-general mailing list (pgsql-general@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-general
Re: [GENERAL] FREE hosting platforms with PostgreSQL, Java SDK, Tomcat, ecc.?
On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 1:40 AM, David Johnston pol...@yahoo.com wrote: On Aug 6, 2011, at 18:03, Stuart McGraw smcg2...@frii.com wrote: My point, while coming across a little harsh apparently, is that emphasis on requiring a free service projects a certain personality. If a good service is free, like PostgreSQL is, the emphasis of using it is justified if you do good things by it. The same is valide for free hardware, but as 'we' know for the hardware is not exactly the same. However, because free file hosting exists and because my funded project ended and I cannot continue to economically support it with other incomes, I tried to ask if the use of a free hosting platform where to install free software (java, PostgreSQL, etc.) could exist. Even just adding or low cost would have helped. Unfortunately, you cannot ask questions on my behalf. I usually ask questions on the basis of my requirements and knowledge. Then, if you want, you can answer with possible comments or not or star a discussion. And finally, I would thank you in any case for your attention and your time. That said, it wasn't the original request the got me to respond but the part about needing to eat. I have never talked about the needing to eat!! I just wrote that my project ended, but fortunately the life of a researcher/engineer is not made just of funded projects. In any case thanks for your concern. :-) I know we started it with the comment about why there are no free hosting providers and I am just as guilty for adding to it. In all, though, I didn't mean to say anyone IS a free-loader only that you can be perceived as one and such perceptions can suppress otherwise useful responses. In the end everyone free-loads and is taken advantage of at the same time in many different areas; and any judgements should be made only when many facts are known (if ever). Sorry if I criticized the free model as somebody has defined it and as probably it is. I explained my ideas in my previous email and I don't want to bore you repeating again my point of view. I apologize for my tone earlier but to be honest this is probably one of the calmest flame-wars I've ever seen :) I apologize too. :-) Peace done! The bottom line is I would not expect to find any individual or company willing or able to offer such a service, to the general public, for free. And it is a service you are requesting as opposed to a product like PostgreSQL. A product is more likely to be improved by the people using it compared to a service, and those improvements are likely to make it back into the original. But, there are a number of companies that do what you need for a price. If you feel what you are doing is important it should at least be worth your time to talk to these companies and see what arrangements can be made instead of dismissing them outright because they charge for their services. You may find someone inclined to take on pro-bono work for a good cause; especially if your needs are modest. In short, ask for everything and then perform the filtering yourself instead of asking others to filter for you - only you know what your actual situation is which makes anyone else's filtering only an uninformed guess. As answered before, you cannot ask questions on my behalf. :-) I already filtered any no free solutions for valid reasons. What you suggest would have caused just a great loss of time for me and for the hosting providers. David J. Hello Fernando, I was sorry to read the harsh responses your request got here. The thing that has always appealed to me about the free software movement is the spirit of cooperation and mutual help that many involved exhibit. You quite rightly point out the hypocrisy of those who call someone a freeloader when they themselves use free software in profit making ventures without sharing their profits with the software's developers and contributors. Please be assured that not everyone here reacted negatively to your post. I wish you success in your search. -- Sent via pgsql-general mailing list (pgsql-general@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-general -- Sent via pgsql-general mailing list (pgsql-general@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-general
Re: [GENERAL] FREE hosting platforms with PostgreSQL, Java SDK, Tomcat, ecc.?
John, Craig, how do you explain the services of file hosting? By those services millions of persons free-load pictures, videos, text, GBs of data, etc.. I think that what I asked is quite similar, that is the use of a piece of remote hardware where to have free software installed. The difference in my opinion is in the fact that I implicitly asked also for the use of a free operating system, but not in the hardware or in its maintenance. On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 3:56 AM, John R Pierce pie...@hogranch.com wrote: On 08/06/11 4:40 PM, David Johnston wrote: The bottom line is I would not expect to find any individual or company willing or able to offer such a service, to the general public, for free. And it is a service you are requesting as opposed to a product like PostgreSQL. A product is more likely to be improved by the people using it compared to a service, and those improvements are likely to make it back into the original. indeed, especially a service like hosting that has significant ongoing hard costs involved... a colocated server requires power, air conditioning, network traffic and transit fees, management, physical security, and the cost of the hardware itself, which has typically a 3-5 year lifespan (in 3 years, newer hardware can do so much more work its often not cost effective to keep the old hardware online). On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 4:25 AM, Craig Ringer ring...@ringerc.id.au wrote: On 7/08/2011 1:08 AM, Scott Ribe wrote: After open source for the software, we will wait for open resource for the hardware (this is just a first example http://www.arduino.cc/, even if of different nature). While the plans may be free, the actual hardware sure as hell won't be. A bit OT, but Arduino is not so much a will as an is. It's in wide-spread use and has even been adopted for the base of the new Android peripheral development system - the Android Open Accessory Development Kit. http://developer.android.com/**guide/topics/usb/adk.htmlhttp://developer.android.com/guide/topics/usb/adk.html I struggle to see any connection between Arduino and PostgreSQL, though. They're very different kinds of free/open source, as software is its specification and can be distributed at no cost, but you can't just download a hardware device and use it. -- Craig Ringer
Re: [GENERAL] FREE hosting platforms with PostgreSQL, Java SDK, Tomcat, ecc.?
On 08/07/11 1:46 AM, Fernando Pianegiani wrote: how do you explain the services of file hosting? By those services millions of persons free-load pictures, videos, text, GBs of data, etc.. I think that what I asked is quite similar, that is the use of a piece of remote hardware where to have free software installed. The difference in my opinion is in the fact that I implicitly asked also for the use of a free operating system, but not in the hardware or in its maintenance. that stuff is usually advertising supported. many of those 'free' file hosting systems charge to let people download at reasonable speeds, and make the download process painful for freeloaders. or, like Google Picasa's image service, they charge if you use more than a couple gigabytes.how do you attach advertising to a user programmed tomcat server with a postgres database? -- john r pierceN 37, W 122 santa cruz ca mid-left coast -- Sent via pgsql-general mailing list (pgsql-general@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-general
Re: [GENERAL] FREE hosting platforms with PostgreSQL, Java SDK, Tomcat, ecc.?
On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 11:22 AM, John R Pierce pie...@hogranch.com wrote: On 08/07/11 1:46 AM, Fernando Pianegiani wrote: how do you explain the services of file hosting? By those services millions of persons free-load pictures, videos, text, GBs of data, etc.. I think that what I asked is quite similar, that is the use of a piece of remote hardware where to have free software installed. The difference in my opinion is in the fact that I implicitly asked also for the use of a free operating system, but not in the hardware or in its maintenance. that stuff is usually advertising supported. many of those 'free' file hosting systems charge to let people download at reasonable speeds, and make the download process painful for freeloaders. or, like Google Picasa's image service, they charge if you use more than a couple gigabytes.how do you attach advertising to a user programmed tomcat server with a postgres database? This is an interesting question for people who want to develop business in the field of the cloud. -- john r pierceN 37, W 122 santa cruz ca mid-left coast
[GENERAL] FREE hosting platforms with PostgreSQL, Java SDK, Tomcat, ecc.?
Hello, do you know any FREE hosting platforms where PostgreSQL, Java SDK, Tomcat (or other web servers) can be already found installed or where they can be installed from scratch? In possible, it would be better if the PostgreSQL be directly accessible by my servlet, without any web service/PHP script in the middle. Thank you very much in advance. Kind regards. Fernando Pianegiani
Re: [GENERAL] FREE hosting platforms with PostgreSQL, Java SDK, Tomcat, ecc.?
On Sat, Aug 6, 2011 at 11:02 AM, Fernando Pianegiani fernando.pianegi...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, do you know any FREE hosting platforms where PostgreSQL, Java SDK, Tomcat (or other web servers) can be already found installed or where they can be installed from scratch? In possible, it would be better if the PostgreSQL be directly accessible by my servlet, without any web service/PHP script in the middle. Thank you very much in advance. Kind regards. Fernando Pianegiani Extreme cross posting, you may need to elect one mailing list and post only to it. I think you may not get good offering for what you are looking for if you are only interested in FREE hosting having all those features you've mentioned. The hosting services do have to somehow get compensation for their overheads, this would mean either offering a FREE service for a limited period and/or requiring that they explicitly add as many of their advertisements as possible to your resulting web pages, not to mention they will try to place as many clients as possible on modest hardware, your ability to manage Tomcat, PostgreSQL will also be very limited in such environments, in general your clients will not be happy. Also the FREE services of this kind have by now been exploited by the many individuals who provide websites that are aimed at ripping people off. Allan. -- Sent via pgsql-general mailing list (pgsql-general@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-general
Re: [GENERAL] FREE hosting platforms with PostgreSQL, Java SDK, Tomcat, ecc.?
Hello, thank you for your answer. Sorry for my cross posting. Are you in any business about hosting platforms?? ;-) Don't forget that the Internet is free, that youtube is free and that this mailing list is free and that also MySQL is free. But, not all the services that appear free are really for free. Behind them there is for sure a business. Fernando Extreme cross posting, you may need to elect one mailing list and post only to it. I think you may not get good offering for what you are looking for if you are only interested in FREE hosting having all those features you've mentioned. The hosting services do have to somehow get compensation for their overheads, this would mean either offering a FREE service for a limited period and/or requiring that they explicitly add as many of their advertisements as possible to your resulting web pages, not to mention they will try to place as many clients as possible on modest hardware, your ability to manage Tomcat, PostgreSQL will also be very limited in such environments, in general your clients will not be happy. Also the FREE services of this kind have by now been exploited by the many individuals who provide websites that are aimed at ripping people off. Allan. -- Sent via pgsql-general mailing list (pgsql-general@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-general On Sat, Aug 6, 2011 at 10:36 AM, Allan Kamau kamaual...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Aug 6, 2011 at 11:02 AM, Fernando Pianegiani fernando.pianegi...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, do you know any FREE hosting platforms where PostgreSQL, Java SDK, Tomcat (or other web servers) can be already found installed or where they can be installed from scratch? In possible, it would be better if the PostgreSQL be directly accessible by my servlet, without any web service/PHP script in the middle. Thank you very much in advance. Kind regards. Fernando Pianegiani
Re: [GENERAL] FREE hosting platforms with PostgreSQL, Java SDK, Tomcat, ecc.?
Exuse me, PostgreSQL is completely free, not MySQL.. :-D On Sat, Aug 6, 2011 at 11:48 AM, Fernando Pianegiani fernando.pianegi...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, thank you for your answer. Sorry for my cross posting. Are you in any business about hosting platforms?? ;-) Don't forget that the Internet is free, that youtube is free and that this mailing list is free and that also MySQL is free. But, not all the services that appear free are really for free. Behind them there is for sure a business. Fernando Extreme cross posting, you may need to elect one mailing list and post only to it. I think you may not get good offering for what you are looking for if you are only interested in FREE hosting having all those features you've mentioned. The hosting services do have to somehow get compensation for their overheads, this would mean either offering a FREE service for a limited period and/or requiring that they explicitly add as many of their advertisements as possible to your resulting web pages, not to mention they will try to place as many clients as possible on modest hardware, your ability to manage Tomcat, PostgreSQL will also be very limited in such environments, in general your clients will not be happy. Also the FREE services of this kind have by now been exploited by the many individuals who provide websites that are aimed at ripping people off. Allan. -- Sent via pgsql-general mailing list (pgsql-general@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-general On Sat, Aug 6, 2011 at 10:36 AM, Allan Kamau kamaual...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Aug 6, 2011 at 11:02 AM, Fernando Pianegiani fernando.pianegi...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, do you know any FREE hosting platforms where PostgreSQL, Java SDK, Tomcat (or other web servers) can be already found installed or where they can be installed from scratch? In possible, it would be better if the PostgreSQL be directly accessible by my servlet, without any web service/PHP script in the middle. Thank you very much in advance. Kind regards. Fernando Pianegiani
Re: [GENERAL] FREE hosting platforms with PostgreSQL, Java SDK, Tomcat, ecc.?
Well, I am from the hosting business, and can assure you, what you are looking for does not exist. This configuration requires specialists on the provider side, which are expensive. They need to eat too. And history teaches, that even if it would exist, you should not put anything meaningful on it, because they surely will go out of business soon. Antonio. Op 06-08-11 10:02, Fernando Pianegiani schreef: Hello, do you know any FREE hosting platforms where PostgreSQL, Java SDK, Tomcat (or other web servers) can be already found installed or where they can be installed from scratch? In possible, it would be better if the PostgreSQL be directly accessible by my servlet, without any web service/PHP script in the middle. Thank you very much in advance. Kind regards. Fernando Pianegiani -- Sent via pgsql-general mailing list (pgsql-general@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-general
Re: [GENERAL] FREE hosting platforms with PostgreSQL, Java SDK, Tomcat, ecc.?
Thak you Antonio. After open source for the software, we will wait for open resource for the hardware (this is just a first example http://www.arduino.cc/, even if of different nature). I need to eat too, for this reason I cannot pay for an hosting platform after that my funded research project ended. Fernando On Sat, Aug 6, 2011 at 3:28 PM, Antonio Goméz Soto antonio.gomez.s...@gmail.com wrote: Well, I am from the hosting business, and can assure you, what you are looking for does not exist. This configuration requires specialists on the provider side, which are expensive. They need to eat too. And history teaches, that even if it would exist, you should not put anything meaningful on it, because they surely will go out of business soon. Antonio. Op 06-08-11 10:02, Fernando Pianegiani schreef: Hello, do you know any FREE hosting platforms where PostgreSQL, Java SDK, Tomcat (or other web servers) can be already found installed or where they can be installed from scratch? In possible, it would be better if the PostgreSQL be directly accessible by my servlet, without any web service/PHP script in the middle. Thank you very much in advance. Kind regards. Fernando Pianegiani
Re: [GENERAL] FREE hosting platforms with PostgreSQL, Java SDK, Tomcat, ecc.?
Since this thread is already top-post... One of the reasons software can be free is because people are able to make money doing things like hosting and consulting. If you are looking for charity because you are poor, or what you want to do has little commercial value, you would be wise to propose what it is you want to actually accomplish and the specific resources you likely need. Showing effort on your part will project professionalism as opposed to the free-loader personality that you show when you simply ask for free stuff. Simply pointing out that you need to eat as the reason why you need free hosting makes you look foolish. The fact that you cross-posted projects disrespect for the very communities providing the free stuff you want to use. I'm sorry your research GRANT expired but you should focus on either obtaining a new grant or how to earn a regular income. If you are starting your own business the reality is that you need funds as opposed to free hosting. Funds will get you both physical (hosting) services and access to expertise. That is all the personal/professional advice I'm am willing to give right now; I need to go fix myself lunch. David J. On Aug 6, 2011, at 9:49, Fernando Pianegiani fernando.pianegi...@gmail.com wrote: Thak you Antonio. After open source for the software, we will wait for open resource for the hardware (this is just a first example http://www.arduino.cc/, even if of different nature). I need to eat too, for this reason I cannot pay for an hosting platform after that my funded research project ended. Fernando On Sat, Aug 6, 2011 at 3:28 PM, Antonio Goméz Soto antonio.gomez.s...@gmail.com wrote: Well, I am from the hosting business, and can assure you, what you are looking for does not exist. This configuration requires specialists on the provider side, which are expensive. They need to eat too. And history teaches, that even if it would exist, you should not put anything meaningful on it, because they surely will go out of business soon. Antonio. Op 06-08-11 10:02, Fernando Pianegiani schreef: Hello, do you know any FREE hosting platforms where PostgreSQL, Java SDK, Tomcat (or other web servers) can be already found installed or where they can be installed from scratch? In possible, it would be better if the PostgreSQL be directly accessible by my servlet, without any web service/PHP script in the middle. Thank you very much in advance. Kind regards. Fernando Pianegiani
Re: [GENERAL] FREE hosting platforms with PostgreSQL, Java SDK, Tomcat, ecc.?
Open Source is about sharing ideas and source code that has no cost in copying as soon as it is once invented. The link you are providing is the same thing. All information about the chip is open. But that doesn't mean that anyone will send you a chip for free. To host a project on the web needs resourses like electric power, computor hardware, cooling hardware for the server room. Server rooms, people willing to get out of bed in the middle of the night to fix a problem to keep up the up time and so on. Those resourses is not possible to just copy for free. Those resourses are bound to the service you get and not just to the idea about the service. There is something else to note. The open sourse software also cost a lot to develop. The idea is just that if a lot of people share what they develop for their costumers or for their own sake that will gain the development for everybody. But it is still a cost someone have to take in terms of time or paying a developer. So, I think the seeking for free in terms of no cost is quite provoking on a list like this. Open Source is about sharing ideas not giving things away for free. That is just a great side effect that what can be copied without cost is shared without cost. But so fare there is no technology to copy the hardware, server rooms, internet bandwidth and so on for no cost. Regards Nicklas Avén On Sat, 2011-08-06 at 15:49 +0200, Fernando Pianegiani wrote: Thak you Antonio. After open source for the software, we will wait for open resource for the hardware (this is just a first example http://www.arduino.cc/, even if of different nature). I need to eat too, for this reason I cannot pay for an hosting platform after that my funded research project ended. Fernando On Sat, Aug 6, 2011 at 3:28 PM, Antonio Goméz Soto antonio.gomez.s...@gmail.com wrote: Well, I am from the hosting business, and can assure you, what you are looking for does not exist. This configuration requires specialists on the provider side, which are expensive. They need to eat too. And history teaches, that even if it would exist, you should not put anything meaningful on it, because they surely will go out of business soon. Antonio. Op 06-08-11 10:02, Fernando Pianegiani schreef: Hello, do you know any FREE hosting platforms where PostgreSQL, Java SDK, Tomcat (or other web servers) can be already found installed or where they can be installed from scratch? In possible, it would be better if the PostgreSQL be directly accessible by my servlet, without any web service/PHP script in the middle. Thank you very much in advance. Kind regards. Fernando Pianegiani -- Sent via pgsql-general mailing list (pgsql-general@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-general
Re: [GENERAL] FREE hosting platforms with PostgreSQL, Java SDK, Tomcat, ecc.?
After open source for the software, we will wait for open resource for the hardware (this is just a first example http://www.arduino.cc/, even if of different nature). While the plans may be free, the actual hardware sure as hell won't be. -- Scott Ribe scott_r...@elevated-dev.com http://www.elevated-dev.com/ (303) 722-0567 voice -- Sent via pgsql-general mailing list (pgsql-general@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-general
Re: [GENERAL] FREE hosting platforms with PostgreSQL, Java SDK, Tomcat, ecc.?
Dear David, Nicklas, I think that this is not the right place where to discuss about this topic, but I have to try to give you an answer. PostgreSQL is not only open source, like MySQL is, but also free. This means that people who don't develop neither a line of code of PostgreSQL (or just some few lines of it) can use it to do what they want, even money, without having the obligation to provide back 1 cent to the PostgreSQL community. That's incredible I know, but it is so. And why? I don't know exactly, but I know that there are several reasons that are not very transparent. I can try to give my interpretation hopping that it is the real one or in any case thinking that it should be the correct one. If people who develop PostgreSQL make it free, people who don't develop PostgreSQL but who use it for their research projects or business can make available the results of their projects also to the developers of PostgreSQL, but overall to the worldwide community. And so, in case for example a developer of PostgreSQL or any other person should have a health problem, he can hope that his hospital uses the results of a research project got also with the help of PostgreSQL or of some other free technology. I think the previous one is the philosophy that should be behind the words open source and free. In all the other cases there are in my opinion interests that should be better clarified. If we do something for free for other people, then they can do something for other people using for free our results, and so on...the alternatives are under our eyes, that is the jungle of the market and the worldwide crisis. So David, don't worry for my activity of research, instead you should be seriously preoccupied if you do business. Moreover, the fact that my project ended could be in case an additional problem for both of us and not only if we should have problems of health strictly inherent to the results of research coming from a possible development of my old project. Obviously, I hope no for all of us. :-) David, Nicklas, if you make money by using PostgreSQL and you want to be really honest (as you claim honesty from me and from my work activity), please count that money and give the right percentage of it to the PostgreSQL community, but considering also who spent more time, resources like electric power, computer hardware, etc. than the others in developing it. In this way if you develop PostgreSQL, then you too can get your right percentage from you and from the other developers. Dear Scott, Niklas, you are right, the components and the resources necessary to manufacture the solutions developed within the arduino project are not for free. Only the schematics, the gerbers, etc. are for free. Finally, the world is full of companies that make available for free their hardware/software/human resources. Probably also you use them every day for free (e.g., the media in general) or you store your data for free in part of those resources (facebook, youtube, just to do general examples), but those resources are not really for free, those companies find the way to gain a lot of money with the fact that you access to their resources. In any case, excuse me if I have hurted your's feelings. My intention was not to ask for a free hosting platform (free stuff, etc.) to the PostgreSQL community, but I simply asked if the community knows anybody who provides a service of free hosting, supposing that in some way the provider of that hosting service would have earned his right income from me in some way (e.g. a banner installed on my PC or other similar business). Fortunately up to now I have never asked for charity dear David and I hope to have not to do it in the future. Have a good dinner! Fernando On Sat, Aug 6, 2011 at 5:35 PM, David Johnston pol...@yahoo.com wrote: Since this thread is already top-post... One of the reasons software can be free is because people are able to make money doing things like hosting and consulting. If you are looking for charity because you are poor, or what you want to do has little commercial value, you would be wise to propose what it is you want to actually accomplish and the specific resources you likely need. Showing effort on your part will project professionalism as opposed to the free-loader personality that you show when you simply ask for free stuff. Simply pointing out that you need to eat as the reason why you need free hosting makes you look foolish. The fact that you cross-posted projects disrespect for the very communities providing the free stuff you want to use. I'm sorry your research GRANT expired but you should focus on either obtaining a new grant or how to earn a regular income. If you are starting your own business the reality is that you need funds as opposed to free hosting. Funds will get you both physical (hosting) services and access to expertise. That is all the personal/professional advice I'm am willing to give right now; I
Re: [GENERAL] FREE hosting platforms with PostgreSQL, Java SDK, Tomcat, ecc.?
Please, behave nice and stick to the subject. Mailing list is not the place for this kind of talk. Sincerely, Dusan On Sat, Aug 6, 2011 at 9:22 PM, Fernando Pianegiani fernando.pianegi...@gmail.com wrote: Dear David, Nicklas, I think that this is not the right place where to discuss about this topic, but I have to try to give you an answer. PostgreSQL is not only open source, like MySQL is, but also free. This means that people who don't develop neither a line of code of PostgreSQL (or just some few lines of it) can use it to do what they want, even money, without having the obligation to provide back 1 cent to the PostgreSQL community. That's incredible I know, but it is so. And why? I don't know exactly, but I know that there are several reasons that are not very transparent. I can try to give my interpretation hopping that it is the real one or in any case thinking that it should be the correct one. If people who develop PostgreSQL make it free, people who don't develop PostgreSQL but who use it for their research projects or business can make available the results of their projects also to the developers of PostgreSQL, but overall to the worldwide community. And so, in case for example a developer of PostgreSQL or any other person should have a health problem, he can hope that his hospital uses the results of a research project got also with the help of PostgreSQL or of some other free technology. I think the previous one is the philosophy that should be behind the words open source and free. In all the other cases there are in my opinion interests that should be better clarified. If we do something for free for other people, then they can do something for other people using for free our results, and so on...the alternatives are under our eyes, that is the jungle of the market and the worldwide crisis. So David, don't worry for my activity of research, instead you should be seriously preoccupied if you do business. Moreover, the fact that my project ended could be in case an additional problem for both of us and not only if we should have problems of health strictly inherent to the results of research coming from a possible development of my old project. Obviously, I hope no for all of us. :-) David, Nicklas, if you make money by using PostgreSQL and you want to be really honest (as you claim honesty from me and from my work activity), please count that money and give the right percentage of it to the PostgreSQL community, but considering also who spent more time, resources like electric power, computer hardware, etc. than the others in developing it. In this way if you develop PostgreSQL, then you too can get your right percentage from you and from the other developers. Dear Scott, Niklas, you are right, the components and the resources necessary to manufacture the solutions developed within the arduino project are not for free. Only the schematics, the gerbers, etc. are for free. Finally, the world is full of companies that make available for free their hardware/software/human resources. Probably also you use them every day for free (e.g., the media in general) or you store your data for free in part of those resources (facebook, youtube, just to do general examples), but those resources are not really for free, those companies find the way to gain a lot of money with the fact that you access to their resources. In any case, excuse me if I have hurted your's feelings. My intention was not to ask for a free hosting platform (free stuff, etc.) to the PostgreSQL community, but I simply asked if the community knows anybody who provides a service of free hosting, supposing that in some way the provider of that hosting service would have earned his right income from me in some way (e.g. a banner installed on my PC or other similar business). Fortunately up to now I have never asked for charity dear David and I hope to have not to do it in the future. Have a good dinner! Fernando On Sat, Aug 6, 2011 at 5:35 PM, David Johnston pol...@yahoo.com wrote: Since this thread is already top-post... One of the reasons software can be free is because people are able to make money doing things like hosting and consulting. If you are looking for charity because you are poor, or what you want to do has little commercial value, you would be wise to propose what it is you want to actually accomplish and the specific resources you likely need. Showing effort on your part will project professionalism as opposed to the free-loader personality that you show when you simply ask for free stuff. Simply pointing out that you need to eat as the reason why you need free hosting makes you look foolish. The fact that you cross-posted projects disrespect for the very communities providing the free stuff you want to use. I'm sorry your research GRANT expired but you should focus on either obtaining a new grant or how to earn a regular
Re: [GENERAL] FREE hosting platforms with PostgreSQL, Java SDK, Tomcat, ecc.?
I hope I am not feeding a troll here. The economic model behind PostgreSQL is a very good one. Here is my understanding of it. Various people in the community cooperate but they also sell products (EnterpriseDB, Green Plum) based on the codebase along with their proprietary enhancements. Others sell services including hosting and consulting. In general anyone who does not share everything practical ends up paying for it later in terms of internal maintenance overhead. Everyone benefits. The wonderful thing about open source software is that every one of us owns the means of production not in a collective or a government but individually. I can take PostgreSQL and make a living off it. You can take my program that runs on it (LedgerSMB) and make a living off it. We can take these pieces of software and use them to provide services to others. The barrier to getting into business for yourself is very low. In my view, if you don't want to pay for hosting and you need all these features, you probably don't really need hosting. The only way you will get hosting is if you convince someone that taking you on benefits them more than the costs (either by paying them or making the case that it's a good business idea to take you on), or the wonderful thing about free and unfettered access to the means of production --- you can set up your own system with all these technologies. That's the free hosting solution that might work best for you. Best Wishes, Chris Travers -- Sent via pgsql-general mailing list (pgsql-general@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-general
Re: [GENERAL] FREE hosting platforms with PostgreSQL, Java SDK, Tomcat, ecc.?
It is not my intention to continue this discussion within this mailing list, so please stop to reply or reply just to me. Otherwise I have to answer again to the community and I don't want to do it. :-) Dear Chris, thank you. I will answer to you in the following. On Sat, Aug 6, 2011 at 11:03 PM, Chris Travers chris.trav...@gmail.comwrote: I hope I am not feeding a troll here. The economic model behind PostgreSQL is a very good one. Here is my understanding of it. Various people in the community cooperate but they also sell products (EnterpriseDB, Green Plum) based on the codebase along with their proprietary enhancements. Others sell services including hosting and consulting. In general anyone who does not share everything practical ends up paying for it later in terms of internal maintenance overhead. Everyone benefits. The wonderful thing about open source software is that every one of us owns the means of production not in a collective or a government but individually. I can take PostgreSQL and make a living off it. You can take my program that runs on it (LedgerSMB) and make a living off it. We can take these pieces of software and use them to provide services to others. The barrier to getting into business for yourself is very low. It's impossible that everyone benefits proportionally to his own effort of development. In this sense the model is not right. But this is the rule of the open source model and it is OK because the rule is accepted by all the developers. In my view, if you don't want to pay for hosting and you need all these features, you probably don't really need hosting. The only way you will get hosting is if you convince someone that taking you on benefits them more than the costs (either by paying them or making the case that it's a good business idea to take you on), or the wonderful thing about free and unfettered access to the means of production --- you can set up your own system with all these technologies. That's the free hosting solution that might work best for you. Simply I don't know how the business works for the hosting platforms. Or better, now I have understood it. :-) For this reason I asked my question. I supposed that it was a business similar to the one existing for File Hosting. Thank you for your support. :-) Fernando Best Wishes, Chris Travers
Re: [GENERAL] FREE hosting platforms with PostgreSQL, Java SDK, Tomcat, ecc.?
Hello Fernando, I was sorry to read the harsh responses your request got here. The thing that has always appealed to me about the free software movement is the spirit of cooperation and mutual help that many involved exhibit. You quite rightly point out the hypocrisy of those who call someone a freeloader when they themselves use free software in profit making ventures without sharing their profits with the software's developers and contributors. Please be assured that not everyone here reacted negatively to your post. I wish you success in your search. -- Sent via pgsql-general mailing list (pgsql-general@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-general
Re: [GENERAL] FREE hosting platforms with PostgreSQL, Java SDK, Tomcat, ecc.?
On Aug 6, 2011, at 18:03, Stuart McGraw smcg2...@frii.com wrote: My point, while coming across a little harsh apparently, is that emphasis on requiring a free service projects a certain personality. Even just adding or low cost would have helped. That said, it wasn't the original request the got me to respond but the part about needing to eat. I know we started it with the comment about why there are no free hosting providers and I am just as guilty for adding to it. In all, though, I didn't mean to say anyone IS a free-loader only that you can be perceived as one and such perceptions can suppress otherwise useful responses. In the end everyone free-loads and is taken advantage of at the same time in many different areas; and any judgements should be made only when many facts are known (if ever). I apologize for my tone earlier but to be honest this is probably one of the calmest flame-wars I've ever seen :) The bottom line is I would not expect to find any individual or company willing or able to offer such a service, to the general public, for free. And it is a service you are requesting as opposed to a product like PostgreSQL. A product is more likely to be improved by the people using it compared to a service, and those improvements are likely to make it back into the original. But, there are a number of companies that do what you need for a price. If you feel what you are doing is important it should at least be worth your time to talk to these companies and see what arrangements can be made instead of dismissing them outright because they charge for their services. You may find someone inclined to take on pro-bono work for a good cause; especially if your needs are modest. In short, ask for everything and then perform the filtering yourself instead of asking others to filter for you - only you know what your actual situation is which makes anyone else's filtering only an uninformed guess. David J. Hello Fernando, I was sorry to read the harsh responses your request got here. The thing that has always appealed to me about the free software movement is the spirit of cooperation and mutual help that many involved exhibit. You quite rightly point out the hypocrisy of those who call someone a freeloader when they themselves use free software in profit making ventures without sharing their profits with the software's developers and contributors. Please be assured that not everyone here reacted negatively to your post. I wish you success in your search. -- Sent via pgsql-general mailing list (pgsql-general@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-general -- Sent via pgsql-general mailing list (pgsql-general@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-general
Re: [GENERAL] FREE hosting platforms with PostgreSQL, Java SDK, Tomcat, ecc.?
On 08/06/11 4:40 PM, David Johnston wrote: The bottom line is I would not expect to find any individual or company willing or able to offer such a service, to the general public, for free. And it is a service you are requesting as opposed to a product like PostgreSQL. A product is more likely to be improved by the people using it compared to a service, and those improvements are likely to make it back into the original. indeed, especially a service like hosting that has significant ongoing hard costs involved... a colocated server requires power, air conditioning, network traffic and transit fees, management, physical security, and the cost of the hardware itself, which has typically a 3-5 year lifespan (in 3 years, newer hardware can do so much more work its often not cost effective to keep the old hardware online). -- john r pierceN 37, W 122 santa cruz ca mid-left coast -- Sent via pgsql-general mailing list (pgsql-general@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-general
Re: [GENERAL] FREE hosting platforms with PostgreSQL, Java SDK, Tomcat, ecc.?
On 7/08/2011 1:08 AM, Scott Ribe wrote: After open source for the software, we will wait for open resource for the hardware (this is just a first example http://www.arduino.cc/, even if of different nature). While the plans may be free, the actual hardware sure as hell won't be. A bit OT, but Arduino is not so much a will as an is. It's in wide-spread use and has even been adopted for the base of the new Android peripheral development system - the Android Open Accessory Development Kit. http://developer.android.com/guide/topics/usb/adk.html I struggle to see any connection between Arduino and PostgreSQL, though. They're very different kinds of free/open source, as software is its specification and can be distributed at no cost, but you can't just download a hardware device and use it. -- Craig Ringer -- Sent via pgsql-general mailing list (pgsql-general@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-general
