Re: [GENERAL] advocacy: drupal and PostgreSQL
Joshua D. Drake wrote: Robert Treat wrote: There's been a big move in the php community to push people towards php5 (one of which was EOL of php4), which has started to pay off. I'd guess that if they wanted to, they could switch to PDO with Drupal 7 and not hurt themselves too much. When I spoke with Dries about this issue one of the big hold backs wasn't PHP 4 but actually MySQL 3. When Drupal 6, MySQL 3 is not longer supported. So they can actually do some nicer stuff (like foreign keys) etc.. I am sure that with PHP5 things will improve as well. Sincerely, Joshua D. Drake Let me just sneak in a quick rant here, from somebody who really doesn't matter. We run drupal for our corporate intranet (currently being built) and we use postgreSQL as the backend. Some of the modules and things don't work perfectly, but drupal supported it and that made me happy enough to work with it. Now after reading this garbage, I'm extremely disappointed. Completely dropping postgresql capability might not affect them too largely in the huge run, because a large amount of their user base is using mySQL, but it would send a message to those of us that believe in choice. I'm afraid that they're choosing the route of convenience over their users, and every time I think about it I want to go looking for replacements. It'd be easier to build drupal to only run on mySQL, but then again it'd be easy to build postgreSQL to only run on linux and forget about the windows users. I know it's not their duty to make drupal work with postgresql, but if they drop it like they're talking about, I'll be making a push here and to everyone I know who uses drupal to switch to another system, whether they're running postgres or not. If drupal 6 absolutely doesn't support postgres, then I'm dropping my drupal 5 install on the spot. This is a cold move drupal, and you should be ashamed. Sorry, I'll end the rant here. BTW, I'm a PHP developer who uses postgreSQL almost exclusively and I'm on this list as well as other postgres lists constantly (even if as a reader most of the time). If they have this big of an issue, why not ask for help? -- Tom Hart IT Specialist Cooperative Federal 723 Westcott St. Syracuse, NY 13210 (315) 471-1116 ext. 202 (315) 476-0567 (fax) ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org/
Re: [GENERAL] advocacy: drupal and PostgreSQL
In response to Tom Hart [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Joshua D. Drake wrote: Robert Treat wrote: There's been a big move in the php community to push people towards php5 (one of which was EOL of php4), which has started to pay off. I'd guess that if they wanted to, they could switch to PDO with Drupal 7 and not hurt themselves too much. When I spoke with Dries about this issue one of the big hold backs wasn't PHP 4 but actually MySQL 3. When Drupal 6, MySQL 3 is not longer supported. So they can actually do some nicer stuff (like foreign keys) etc.. I am sure that with PHP5 things will improve as well. Sincerely, Joshua D. Drake Let me just sneak in a quick rant here, from somebody who really doesn't matter. We run drupal for our corporate intranet (currently being built) and we use postgreSQL as the backend. Some of the modules and things don't work perfectly, but drupal supported it and that made me happy enough to work with it. Now after reading this garbage, I'm extremely disappointed. Completely dropping postgresql capability might not affect them too largely in the huge run, because a large amount of their user base is using mySQL, but it would send a message to those of us that believe in choice. I'm afraid that they're choosing the route of convenience over their users, and every time I think about it I want to go looking for replacements. I run my personal site on Drupal+PostgreSQL. If Drupal drops PG support, I'll switch the front-end. I'm not switching the back end. I'm also planning a small enterprise that I was originally considering using Drupal for. I'm now more seriously considering Bricolage. However, read on ... It'd be easier to build drupal to only run on mySQL, but then again it'd be easy to build postgreSQL to only run on linux and forget about the windows users. I know it's not their duty to make drupal work with postgresql, but if they drop it like they're talking about, I'll be making a push here and to everyone I know who uses drupal to switch to another system, whether they're running postgres or not. If drupal 6 absolutely doesn't support postgres, then I'm dropping my drupal 5 install on the spot. This is a cold move drupal, and you should be ashamed. I made a post on the drupal-devel list to this effect. I got chewed out for flaming Karoly ... who's obviously some big Drupal code guru. Frankly, every time this topic comes up, it's initiated by Karoly, and I've lost patience with the crap, so I unsubscribed. If I can get my life back in order, I'll re-subscribe some time in Feb, and hopefully start to do something productive, like contribute testing and patches. Sorry, I'll end the rant here. BTW, I'm a PHP developer who uses postgreSQL almost exclusively and I'm on this list as well as other postgres lists constantly (even if as a reader most of the time). If they have this big of an issue, why not ask for help? If you read through the thread, it's just Karoly and a few other minor players in the Drupal community. Many people have stepped up and said, I _do_ test on PostgreSQL, so what are you complaining about? As best I can tell, Karoly writes patches, and when they don't work on PostgreSQL and therefore don't get committed right away, he starts this argument up on the Drupal lists yet again. The guy is a whiner who has a personal axe to grind and seems unable to accept that Drupal wants to run on more than just MySQL. If he loves MySQL so much, he should join a project that only supports MySQL and leave the Drupal people to their work. There's a LOT of effort in the Drupal community to build code abstractions that will make the system database-agnostic, and Karoly's constant whining is simply counterproductive. To a large degree, I think Karoly has blown the situation out of proportion. Look at how it affects _this_ list every time he starts bitching, for example. -- Bill Moran http://www.potentialtech.com ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [GENERAL] advocacy: drupal and PostgreSQL
Bill Moran wrote: In response to Tom Hart [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Let me just sneak in a quick rant here, from somebody who really doesn't matter. We run drupal for our corporate intranet (currently being built) and we use postgreSQL as the backend. Some of the modules and things don't work perfectly, but drupal supported it and that made me happy enough to work with it. Now after reading this garbage, I'm extremely disappointed. Completely dropping postgresql capability might not affect them too largely in the huge run, because a large amount of their user base is using mySQL, but it would send a message to those of us that believe in choice. I'm afraid that they're choosing the route of convenience over their users, and every time I think about it I want to go looking for replacements. I run my personal site on Drupal+PostgreSQL. If Drupal drops PG support, I'll switch the front-end. I'm not switching the back end. I'm also planning a small enterprise that I was originally considering using Drupal for. I'm now more seriously considering Bricolage. However, read on ... It'd be easier to build drupal to only run on mySQL, but then again it'd be easy to build postgreSQL to only run on linux and forget about the windows users. I know it's not their duty to make drupal work with postgresql, but if they drop it like they're talking about, I'll be making a push here and to everyone I know who uses drupal to switch to another system, whether they're running postgres or not. If drupal 6 absolutely doesn't support postgres, then I'm dropping my drupal 5 install on the spot. This is a cold move drupal, and you should be ashamed. I made a post on the drupal-devel list to this effect. I got chewed out for flaming Karoly ... who's obviously some big Drupal code guru. Frankly, every time this topic comes up, it's initiated by Karoly, and I've lost patience with the crap, so I unsubscribed. If I can get my life back in order, I'll re-subscribe some time in Feb, and hopefully start to do something productive, like contribute testing and patches. Sorry, I'll end the rant here. BTW, I'm a PHP developer who uses postgreSQL almost exclusively and I'm on this list as well as other postgres lists constantly (even if as a reader most of the time). If they have this big of an issue, why not ask for help? If you read through the thread, it's just Karoly and a few other minor players in the Drupal community. Many people have stepped up and said, I _do_ test on PostgreSQL, so what are you complaining about? As best I can tell, Karoly writes patches, and when they don't work on PostgreSQL and therefore don't get committed right away, he starts this argument up on the Drupal lists yet again. The guy is a whiner who has a personal axe to grind and seems unable to accept that Drupal wants to run on more than just MySQL. If he loves MySQL so much, he should join a project that only supports MySQL and leave the Drupal people to their work. There's a LOT of effort in the Drupal community to build code abstractions that will make the system database-agnostic, and Karoly's constant whining is simply counterproductive. To a large degree, I think Karoly has blown the situation out of proportion. Look at how it affects _this_ list every time he starts bitching, for example. Is it just Karoly (chx) who has all these things to say about pg? He's just one person on the drupal team. Has anybody else in the core team spoken out on this subject? Let's keep in mind as well that this doesn't only affect pg users but any other database as well that drupal supports or plans on supporting. Drupal is pretty popular, and I expect there are a number of organizations that don't fit in their mold of the ideal drupal user. I'd almost consider trying to take drupal and create a derivative product and build in the pg and oracle and mssql, etc. support myself, but if the drupal team really pulls a messed up move like this, I really don't want to have anything to do with them anymore. It's not that I'm that huge of a pg nut (I used mySQL for a while myself), but any team that can turn it's back on that many of it's users to make their lives a little easier isn't in it for the right reasons (the advancement of technology, computing as a science, etc.). I am literally astonished that they would even consider telling even 1% of their users Take off, you're too much work. How many drupal+postgres users are large corporations, or regular donators? What about code contributors? How many people are they looking at pissing off with a move like this? Obviously emotion has gotten the better of me which is why I won't post to the drupal boards/lists (I might be accused of flaming and I don't want to paint the pgSQL community in a negative light), but I think that somebody should let the drupal people know that we're still here and we'd like to use the new drupal, just not on
Re: [GENERAL] advocacy: drupal and PostgreSQL
On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 11:03:43 -0500 Tom Hart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Let me just sneak in a quick rant here, from somebody who really doesn't matter. We run drupal for our corporate intranet (currently being built) and we use postgreSQL as the backend. Some of the modules and things don't work perfectly, but drupal supported it and that made me happy enough to work with it. Now after reading this garbage, Same here. I'm extremely disappointed. Completely dropping postgresql capability might not affect them too largely in the huge run, because a large amount of their user base is using mySQL, but it would send a message to those of us that believe in choice. I'm afraid that they're choosing the route of convenience over their users, and every time I think about it I want to go looking for replacements. Same here. I think Postgres is a great DB... but what upset me most is: - missing freedom - missing freedom I'd explain better the 2 above point and add a 3rd one later. - If you've just one choice it is nice it is Open, but having a competitor is better - once you go for one DB it will be extremely painful to go back and the overall design of such a beast will suffer a lot 3rd point: - going MySQL only may be OK for Joomla. Not for Drupal. Drupal is halfway between a CMS and a framework. You can use to do more than just showing semi-static pages. You can use it to deal with money where transaction and ref. integrity is important and from the point of view of a developer it is not yet a comoditised software. Client are asking more than just install it on a hosting. I've seen some of the problems Drupal has with Postgres and quite a bunch are caused by absolutely unnecessary Mysqlisms. Then when there are patches that require to fix badly written SQL spread around people complain pg is holding the world back. There are very smart developer some of whom (Larry Garfield, Edison Wong) are actually going in the right direction without complaining every now and then that pg is holding drupal back and drupal I think is still the leader of a marketplace no body is in. Joshua posted the link to Edison's project that can support pg, MS SQL, Oracle, DB2(?)... but well I had the feeling that Edison is a bit ostracised. While I wouldn't define his work a DB AL... well it works so kudos! Unfortunately 6.X should be out soon and his work won't be included and it looks that 7.X infrastructure will be even better. Maybe some people hope to get rich fast enough they won't have to work with any other DB other than MySQL... postgres or not. If drupal 6 absolutely doesn't support postgres, Thanks to schema api drupal 6 should support pg even better. But it is half the work since the DB abstraction layer... is not abstract. Substantially queries are passed to db_query as strings and adapted with regexp. Schema api uses array to define tables so you don't have to serialise, unserialise, serialise queries and you have some metadata. But... but... an DB abstraction layer is complicated and doesn't come for free. Actually some people complain about the overhead of a DB AL but then write awful SQL... Anyway... well maybe adopting a full fledged ORM for 7.0 will actually be too much... and writing one may take advantage of the knowledge of underlying objects... but still be too much to be written for 7. then I'm dropping my drupal 5 install on the spot. This is a cold move drupal, and you should be ashamed. No... I just posted here so more people would be aware of the problem and help correct it. I don't think drupal is really going to become mono-db. It seems that even MS had some interest in porting drupal to MS SQL... and there is actually a MS employee doing so... Just I'd like it to be done better and faster and avoid to read the same thing on drupal ML every 20 days or so ;) BTW, I'm a PHP developer who uses postgreSQL almost exclusively and I'm on this list as well as other postgres lists constantly (even if as a reader most of the time). If they have this big of an issue, why not ask for help? Because some won't have any more excuse to write MySQLish SQL ;) I think that people that use drupal on Postgres could get a bit more involved in drupal all the project will gain *a lot* and not just because of improved pg support but because pg people generally are better DB guys knowing more than one DB and conscious of what a DB can do and it is done for. I know that what I'm writing worth nearly 0, but I'm terribly busy (guess what...) with building up a module for drupal that will run just on pg (sorry... I'm not going to put money in something that discovered transactions just yesterday no matter how fast it is to serve thousands semi-static pages and if I can find it even on South Pole hosting, If I had to serve thousands static pages I'd consider MySQL, really, but I'm not). As soon as I wake up from this deadline nightmare I'll definitively try to review and propose patches to offer a
Re: [GENERAL] advocacy: drupal and PostgreSQL
On Jan 17, 2008 1:43 PM, Tom Hart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Obviously emotion has gotten the better of me which is why I won't post to the drupal boards/lists Really, honestly, you're controlling it quite well. Passion is fine. As long as the lists stay civil, passion has its place. (I might be accused of flaming and I don't want to paint the pgSQL community in a negative light), but I think that somebody should let the drupal people know that we're still here and we'd like to use the new drupal, just not on mySQL. Oh, and a collective middle finger to anybody that says the pg community is too small to bother with. I agree. What gets me is the tortured logic I read in the post by nk on the drupal board. Two examples: 1: With MySQL 5.0 and 5.1, there's no need for pgsql This statement shows that he knows nothing of the differences of the two database engines of which he speaks. And when you don't know anything about a subject, it's best to ask someone who does. 2: There's only 5% of drupal users that use pgsql, therefore they aren't important. -- The fact that PostgreSQL isn't fully supported (i.e. some modules don't work) and it STILL has a 5% user base in Drupal is actually a testament to the pgsql userbase. They're willing to climb uphill to get drupal working on their chosen platform. If drupal properly support pgsql, it might well be a much higher percentage that chose to run on top of pgsql. -- Which users are those 5%? Maybe they're the sites that really show off drupal to the public, maybe they're internal sites for very large corporates, or maybe they're sites that just need to make sure the accounting is done right. I just read Ivan's post, and I agree, it sounds like people who learned bad habits on mysql and are now whinging about their mysql inspired sql not working on other platforms. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [GENERAL] advocacy: drupal and PostgreSQL
In response to Tom Hart [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Bill Moran wrote: [snip] To a large degree, I think Karoly has blown the situation out of proportion. Look at how it affects _this_ list every time he starts bitching, for example. Is it just Karoly (chx) who has all these things to say about pg? He's just one person on the drupal team. Has anybody else in the core team spoken out on this subject? Last time this came up (which was in Dec, I believe) a few other core members jumped in eventually and said, No, we're keeping PG. The goal of Drupal is to be database agnostic, so dropping PG is counter- productive. To which Karoly responded that he didn't want to _drop_ PG support, he just wanted to drop PG support ... or something equally nonsensical. The guy sets my jerk alarms ringing like a 5 alarm fire. He doesn't play well with others, he constantly starts fights, and he threatens to take his ball and go home every time he loses. I don't care how much code he writes, I don't think he's worth the headache. Let's keep in mind as well that this doesn't only affect pg users but any other database as well that drupal supports or plans on supporting. Drupal is pretty popular, and I expect there are a number of organizations that don't fit in their mold of the ideal drupal user. As I said, I get the impression that most of the Drupal developers get this, and they have mentioned more than once that Drupal's design goal is to be database-agnostic. It just seems to be Karoly and a few people here and there that he's able to incite into riot. I'd almost consider trying to take drupal and create a derivative product and build in the pg and oracle and mssql, etc. support myself, but if the drupal team really pulls a messed up move like this, I really don't want to have anything to do with them anymore. It's not that I'm that huge of a pg nut (I used mySQL for a while myself), but any team that can turn it's back on that many of it's users to make their lives a little easier isn't in it for the right reasons (the advancement of technology, computing as a science, etc.). I am literally astonished that they would even consider telling even 1% of their users Take off, you're too much work. How many drupal+postgres users are large corporations, or regular donators? What about code contributors? How many people are they looking at pissing off with a move like this? I'm upset with the community. The other core members need to stand up to Karoly and say, You opinions are not those of the community, and we'll ban you from the lists if you continue to start this fight over and over again. -- Bill Moran http://www.potentialtech.com ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend
Re: [GENERAL] advocacy: drupal and PostgreSQL
I evaluated Drupal with PostgreSQL, but it wasn't powerful enough, and it's written in PHP which is buggy, and lots of modules force you to use MySQL which is not ACID (I'm sorry but inserting 31-Feb-2008 and not throwing an error by default makes you non-ACID in my book). PostgreSQL support was spotty at best, and it sounds like one would have received precious little help from the Drupal community. I plumped for Plone SQLAlchemy and Postgresql instead. Alex On Jan 17, 2008 3:42 PM, Scott Marlowe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jan 17, 2008 1:43 PM, Tom Hart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Obviously emotion has gotten the better of me which is why I won't post to the drupal boards/lists Really, honestly, you're controlling it quite well. Passion is fine. As long as the lists stay civil, passion has its place. (I might be accused of flaming and I don't want to paint the pgSQL community in a negative light), but I think that somebody should let the drupal people know that we're still here and we'd like to use the new drupal, just not on mySQL. Oh, and a collective middle finger to anybody that says the pg community is too small to bother with. I agree. What gets me is the tortured logic I read in the post by nk on the drupal board. Two examples: 1: With MySQL 5.0 and 5.1, there's no need for pgsql This statement shows that he knows nothing of the differences of the two database engines of which he speaks. And when you don't know anything about a subject, it's best to ask someone who does. 2: There's only 5% of drupal users that use pgsql, therefore they aren't important. -- The fact that PostgreSQL isn't fully supported (i.e. some modules don't work) and it STILL has a 5% user base in Drupal is actually a testament to the pgsql userbase. They're willing to climb uphill to get drupal working on their chosen platform. If drupal properly support pgsql, it might well be a much higher percentage that chose to run on top of pgsql. -- Which users are those 5%? Maybe they're the sites that really show off drupal to the public, maybe they're internal sites for very large corporates, or maybe they're sites that just need to make sure the accounting is done right. I just read Ivan's post, and I agree, it sounds like people who learned bad habits on mysql and are now whinging about their mysql inspired sql not working on other platforms. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [GENERAL] advocacy: drupal and PostgreSQL
On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 15:52:37 -0500 Alex Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I evaluated Drupal with PostgreSQL, but it wasn't powerful enough, and it's written in PHP which is buggy, and lots of modules force you to use MySQL which is not ACID (I'm sorry but inserting 31-Feb-2008 and not throwing an error by default makes you non-ACID in my book). PostgreSQL support was spotty at best, and it sounds like one would have received precious little help from the Drupal community. I plumped for Plone SQLAlchemy and Postgresql instead. It could be interesting. Plone does look more enterprise oriented and python is a definitive plus once you're not on hosting. Other choices could be some form of RAD. I'd prefer the pythonic RAD. Up to my memory some works on top of SQLAlchemy... But still Drupal find itself in an interesting market place that is not the one of Joomla neither the one of Plone and I think that in that market place it fits better with PostgreSQL rather than MySQL. I'd be interested in your experience with SQLAlchemy and how it fits with pg. I'm not that sure that a full fledged ORM fits with Drupal since it is something in between a CMS and a framework so more flexible than a CMS but less that a framework like Django so it would be better to build up a DB AL around actual objects in drupal. At least I'll try to find the time to read through SQLAlchemy to learn. OK... I'll stop to hijack pg list things that start to be just tangential to postgres ;) Many thanks to everybody who listened to the call. -- Ivan Sergio Borgonovo http://www.webthatworks.it ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
Re: [GENERAL] advocacy: drupal and PostgreSQL
At 4:11p -0500 on 17 Jan 2008, Bill Moran wrote: The guy sets my jerk alarms ringing like a 5 alarm fire. He doesn't play well with others, he constantly starts fights, and he threatens to take his ball and go home every time he loses. I don't care how much code he writes, I don't think he's worth the headache. As I said, I get the impression that most of the Drupal developers get this, and they have mentioned more than once that Drupal's design goal is to be database-agnostic. It just seems to be Karoly and a few people here and there that he's able to incite into riot. I'm upset with the community. The other core members need to stand up to Karoly and say, You opinions are not those of the community, and we'll ban you from the lists if you continue to start this fight over and over again. I recently ran across this video about poisonous people in open source projects. It's perhaps prudent. It's about 55 minutes long. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4216011961522818645 Kevin ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faq
Re: [GENERAL] advocacy: drupal and PostgreSQL
On jeu, 2008-01-17 at 21:25 +0100, Ivan Sergio Borgonovo wrote: Joshua posted the link to Edison's project that can support pg, MS SQL, Oracle, DB2(?)... but well I had the feeling that Edison is a bit ostracised. While I wouldn't define his work a DB AL... well it works so kudos! Unfortunately 6.X should be out soon and his work won't be included and it looks that 7.X infrastructure will be even better. Maybe some people hope to get rich fast enough they won't have to work with any other DB other than MySQL... I registered myself on Drupal devel mailing list and offered my services to fix ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faq
[GENERAL] advocacy: drupal and PostgreSQL
Hi, Among Drupal developer there is such kind of discussion over and over recently: http://drupal4hu.com/node/64 I'd be too PostgreSQL biased to comment further... my point of view is not too different from the one expressed by Steve Rude at the bottom of the page. Furthermore I think that developing in such a MySQLish centric way will make MUCH harder to support any other DB not only PostgreSQL and freedom of choice is very important to me. I'd ask to all the people actually using drupal with PostgreSQL to vote here: http://groups.drupal.org/node/6164 and maybe add some comment if they use Drupal in some interesting way. If any developer is also interested in helping the project move further with better PostgreSQL support I think it will be welcome by most drupal community. Here are the open issues related to PostgreSQL: http://groups.drupal.org/node/6980 thanks -- Ivan Sergio Borgonovo http://www.webthatworks.it ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
Re: [GENERAL] advocacy: drupal and PostgreSQL
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 01:12:07 +0100 Ivan Sergio Borgonovo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Among Drupal developer there is such kind of discussion over and over recently: http://drupal4hu.com/node/64 I commented here. I'd ask to all the people actually using drupal with PostgreSQL to vote here: http://groups.drupal.org/node/6164 But I am not going to vote. and maybe add some comment if they use Drupal in some interesting way. If any developer is also interested in helping the project move further with better PostgreSQL support I think it will be welcome by most drupal community. Here are the open issues related to PostgreSQL: http://groups.drupal.org/node/6980 Reviewing thanks - -- The PostgreSQL Company: Since 1997, http://www.commandprompt.com/ Sales/Support: +1.503.667.4564 24x7/Emergency: +1.800.492.2240 Donate to the PostgreSQL Project: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate SELECT 'Training', 'Consulting' FROM vendor WHERE name = 'CMD' -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFHjWNZATb/zqfZUUQRAjw1AKCBtWKbzk/9w41dZwbOKxYhw0sp8ACgr0ta iSsgUTh1MD1EKvtaDi9UrYE= =jK1+ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [GENERAL] advocacy: drupal and PostgreSQL
On Wed, 16 Jan 2008, Ivan Sergio Borgonovo wrote: Furthermore I think that developing in such a MySQLish centric way will make MUCH harder to support any other DB not only PostgreSQL and freedom of choice is very important to me. Having helped out a bit getting Postnuke working better with PostgreSQL, I can tell you that didn't go far until the developers really embraced using ADOdb and were targeting 2 engines at once (MS SQL was the other one they really worked on). The only work I've seen for Drupal with similar focus all involves the PDO library, as alluded to in the post you mentioned: http://drupal.org/node/134580 http://edin.no-ip.com/html/?q=code_siren_unofficial_drupal_6_x_database_driver_supporting The problem with PDO is that it requires PHP5, which means it will be years until it's on enough shared hosts etc. that the mainstream Drupal version can require it. I'm not really surprised that their developers are sick of the one hack at a time approach to supporting PostgreSQL, but it seems quite some time before they'll have something better, or that they'll support even more storage engines. -- * Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
Re: [GENERAL] advocacy: drupal and PostgreSQL
On Tuesday 15 January 2008 21:00, Greg Smith wrote:
On Wed, 16 Jan 2008, Ivan Sergio Borgonovo wrote:
Furthermore I think that developing in such a MySQLish centric way
will make MUCH harder to support any other DB not only PostgreSQL and
freedom of choice is very important to me.
Having helped out a bit getting Postnuke working better with PostgreSQL, I
can tell you that didn't go far until the developers really embraced using
ADOdb and were targeting 2 engines at once (MS SQL was the other one they
really worked on).
The only work I've seen for Drupal with similar focus all involves the PDO
library, as alluded to in the post you mentioned:
http://drupal.org/node/134580
http://edin.no-ip.com/html/?q=code_siren_unofficial_drupal_6_x_database_dri
ver_supporting
The problem with PDO is that it requires PHP5, which means it will be
years until it's on enough shared hosts etc. that the mainstream Drupal
version can require it.
There's been a big move in the php community to push people towards php5 (one
of which was EOL of php4), which has started to pay off. I'd guess that if
they wanted to, they could switch to PDO with Drupal 7 and not hurt
themselves too much.
--
Robert Treat
Build A Brighter LAMP :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [GENERAL] advocacy: drupal and PostgreSQL
Robert Treat wrote: On Tuesday 15 January 2008 21:00, Greg Smith wrote: There's been a big move in the php community to push people towards php5 (one of which was EOL of php4), which has started to pay off. I'd guess that if they wanted to, they could switch to PDO with Drupal 7 and not hurt themselves too much. When I spoke with Dries about this issue one of the big hold backs wasn't PHP 4 but actually MySQL 3. When Drupal 6, MySQL 3 is not longer supported. So they can actually do some nicer stuff (like foreign keys) etc.. I am sure that with PHP5 things will improve as well. Sincerely, Joshua D. Drake ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: don't forget to increase your free space map settings
