Re: [HACKERS] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI Installer for Linux/Unix
Devrim GUNDUZ wrote: Hi, As you know, many databases that run on Linux / Unix systems have a GUI installer which make installation easier and more attractive for some people. Our Windows Installer is very attractive, for example. Now, I and Burcu Guzel, who is a Senior Programmer, decided to launch a new project: pgnixinstaller : http://pgfoundry.org/projects/pgnixinstaller/ We are actively looking for developers for the project. Please drop me an e-mail if you want to join this project. We will use Python, so you need to be a Python guy to join the project. We are in planning phase, if you join us earlier, we will be able to share more ideas. Regards, Thanks to Devrim for the RPM stuff. On Windows, we expect the installer, no question about that. On Linux, virtually everyone including many beginners become familiar with their package management system, be it yum or apt etc. Many of the readme's, how-to's etc tie into it. The package management tools are packaged with every distro. There is no environment to setup. Whether you are using a headless box or a gnome desktop, there is usually an interface into them. The beginner just tries yum install xxx. I think folks would be surprised that for many folks this is basically IT for them in terms of package installation. Compiling from source, while theoretically sometimes as easy, doesn't happen nearly as often. And if you work with a client, the packaging system is what they know as well. Please, can't you set it up so everything comes from an RPM? I'm one of those people now. I used to compile everything from source, from apache, through php and my database. Had custom build scripts, and the whole works. But I threw it away and use RPM wherever I can. When I see postgresql packaged as an RPM, I'm pretty sure the file paths have been modified to work with my system (they are) and the startup and shutdown scripts tie in nicely (they do). Especially when I just want to play with something, I want the simplest approach possible. And the approach the most folks are familiar with is their package management system. So, what's the point of this rambling? Props to Devrim (and others) for hand-holding us beginners (or lazy ones) with his existing packaging work. It is tremendously appreciated and lowers the barrier to entry more then they release. And I wonder if an effort to take advantage of these existing infrastructures that everyone (including in my mind beginners) are familiar with, might yield good results. - For example, packaging the pgadmin adminpack as an rpm/deb and more of the pgfoundry items would do this. - Or a postgresql repository for apt/yum etc, making upgrading/installing even easier? If this new installer plays nice with existing packaging systems, and has the rules in place to custom compile lots of options, it seems close to providing something in this area already out of necessity. Perhaps a win-win for both areas with a bit of extension (ie, the installer is backed by a repo that other users can use with other tools?) - August ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faq
Re: [HACKERS] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI Installer for
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tino Wildenhain Sent: 31 January 2006 07:55 To: Rick Gigger Cc: Marc G. Fournier; Joshua D. Drake; Christopher Browne; pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org Subject: Re: [HACKERS] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI Installer for As was said, a gui to produce postgresql.conf files (off host) can be of value. pgAdmin? Regards, Dave. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend
Re: [HACKERS] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI Installer for
Hi, On Mon, 2006-01-30 at 20:41 -0800, Jeffrey W. Baker wrote: How will you do an orderly upgrade from one revision to the next, including all the dependencies? We are still in planning phase, any ideas of how to do that is welcome. How will you distribute security updates? We are still in planning phase, any ideas of how to do that is welcome. I predict this form of installation will cause a great many support headaches as users report problems which are caused by oddball compilers, strange CFLAGS, unreleased or strangely patched versions of shared libraries and headers, and so forth. I can't see a problem in here. We already have platform test results in pgbuildfarm and we have the knowledbase about the configure options, flags etc. in that platforms. Obviously anybody is welcome and able to just write whatever software they feel is needed, but go ahead and count me among the skeptics. The world is not turning around us, and please don't be skeptic on a piece of software that you won't use but some people will. Regards, -- The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc. 1.503.667.4564 PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support Managed Services, Shared and Dedicated Hosting Co-Authors: plPHP, plPerlNG - http://www.commandprompt.com/ ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: don't forget to increase your free space map settings
Re: [HACKERS] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI Installer for
Hi, On Mon, 2006-01-30 at 19:35 -0800, Christopher Browne wrote: We are actively looking for developers for the project. Please drop me an e-mail if you want to join this project. We will use Python, so you need to be a Python guy to join the project. We are in planning phase, if you join us earlier, we will be able to share more ideas. You'd better define the purpose pretty clearly, as I don't see any purpose that's of value, yet. I agree with Joshua's points here. Think of people who do not want an installation via command line. Regards, -- The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc. 1.503.667.4564 PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support Managed Services, Shared and Dedicated Hosting Co-Authors: plPHP, plPerlNG - http://www.commandprompt.com/ ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI Installer for
Hi, On Tue, 2006-01-31 at 09:15 +, Dave Page wrote: As was said, a gui to produce postgresql.conf files (off host) can be of value. pgAdmin? Installer should produce a postgresql.conf, based on some selections via the interface. Then we will use pgAdmin to edit, improve, etc. postgresql.conf. Regards, -- The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc. 1.503.667.4564 PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support Managed Services, Shared and Dedicated Hosting Co-Authors: plPHP, plPerlNG - http://www.commandprompt.com/ ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI Installer for
-Original Message- From: Devrim GUNDUZ [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 31 January 2006 09:25 To: Dave Page Cc: Tino Wildenhain; Rick Gigger; Marc G. Fournier; Joshua D. Drake; Christopher Browne; pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org; Burcu GUZEL Subject: Re: [HACKERS] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI Installer for Hi, On Tue, 2006-01-31 at 09:15 +, Dave Page wrote: As was said, a gui to produce postgresql.conf files (off host) can be of value. pgAdmin? Installer should produce a postgresql.conf, based on some selections via the interface. Then we will use pgAdmin to edit, improve, etc. postgresql.conf. Yeah, that's pretty much how pgInstaller works - we let initdb create the config file, then tweak some values using some C code. The user can then use pgAdmin (or a text editor) to tweak to taste. Regards, Dave. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend
Re: [HACKERS] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI Installer for
Hi, On Tue, 2006-01-31 at 08:34 +0100, Tino Wildenhain wrote: http://pgfoundry.org/projects/pgnixinstaller/ We are actively looking for developers for the project. Please drop me an e-mail if you want to join this project. We will use Python, so you need to be a Python guy to join the project. We are in planning phase, if you join us earlier, we will be able to share more ideas. Might be fun of course. But on unix you usually have some kind of package system anyway - how is the installer supposed to play nicely with them? Yes, We will try to stick the file locations of those package managers. We already have that KB. Regards, -- The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc. 1.503.667.4564 PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support Managed Services, Shared and Dedicated Hosting Co-Authors: plPHP, plPerlNG - http://www.commandprompt.com/ ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
Re: [HACKERS] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI Installer for
Dave Page schrieb: ... As was said, a gui to produce postgresql.conf files (off host) can be of value. pgAdmin? Well, strictly spoken a gui text editor is a gui... but I rather had in mind something guided with buttons, select boxes and stuff and references to documentation, calculations and the like. :-) Tino ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: don't forget to increase your free space map settings
Re: [HACKERS] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI Installer for
-Original Message- From: Tino Wildenhain [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 31 January 2006 10:53 To: Dave Page Cc: Rick Gigger; Marc G. Fournier; Joshua D. Drake; Christopher Browne; pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org Subject: Re: [HACKERS] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI Installer for Dave Page schrieb: ... As was said, a gui to produce postgresql.conf files (off host) can be of value. pgAdmin? Well, strictly spoken a gui text editor is a gui... but I rather had in mind something guided with buttons, select boxes and stuff and references to documentation, calculations and the like. :-) Err, yes. pgAdmin? It's somewhat more than a simple text editor. :-) /D ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend
Re: [HACKERS] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI Installer for
Dave Page schrieb: ... Well, strictly spoken a gui text editor is a gui... but I rather had in mind something guided with buttons, select boxes and stuff and references to documentation, calculations and the like. :-) Err, yes. pgAdmin? It's somewhat more than a simple text editor. Ah, right ;) Didnt see it in action before :-) Now when I actually load a postgresql.conf file I see what you mean. Nice job :-) Figuring out the correct values for some of the buffers and costs is still a bit tough. Otoh, I guess there is no easy way to predict all these. Regards Tino ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
Re: [HACKERS] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI Installer for
Tino Wildenhain wrote: Figuring out the correct values for some of the buffers and costs is still a bit tough. Otoh, I guess there is no easy way to predict all these. pgAdmin has a mechanism to suggest values (currently for autovacuum and listen_address only), which waits for expansion :-) I could think of a wizard that asks decent questions, resulting in proposals. Whether implemented as GUI or not, a questionaire and suggested algorithms to calculate settings (eyeballed from Core) would be a good starting point. Regards, Andreas ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faq
Re: [HACKERS] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI Installer for
Hi, On Mon, 2006-01-30 at 19:35 -0800, Christopher Browne wrote: We are actively looking for developers for the project. Please drop me an e-mail if you want to join this project. We will use Python, so you need to be a Python guy to join the project. We are in planning phase, if you join us earlier, we will be able to share more ideas. You'd better define the purpose pretty clearly, as I don't see any purpose that's of value, yet. I agree with Joshua's points here. Think of people who do not want an installation via command line. When virtually every flavour of Unix has its own package manager, I have difficulty distinguishing this from the badness of how Oracle's installer handles things. The people I imagine would be of interest as plausible new users are the ones that don't want to be troubled with configuring pretty well anything at all, command line or no. The sort of thing that would get PostgreSQL much more widely deployed would be (for instance) for applications like GnuCash or components of GNOME/KDE to adopt it as their storage mechanism. Their developers are not particularly interested in doing a lot of DBA work, e.g. - setting up users, pg_hba.conf, and such. (The need for this is one of the reasons the GnuCash people have been biasing towards SQLite...) It's worth noting that GNOME/KDE projects have NOT attempted to build their own GUI installers except in the forms of very platform-specific things. In that regard, they let each platform have its own set of idioms. -- let name=cbbrowne and tld=gmail.com in String.concat @ [name;tld];; http://cbbrowne.com/info/slony.html CBS News report on Fort Worth tornado damage: Eight major downtown buildings were severely damaged and 1,000 homes were damaged, with 95 uninhabitable. Gov. George W. Bush declared Tarrant County a disaster area. Federal Emergency Management Agency workers are expected to arrive sometime next week after required paperwork is completed. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend
Re: [HACKERS] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI Installer for
Devrim GUNDUZ wrote: Hi, On Mon, 2006-01-30 at 19:35 -0800, Christopher Browne wrote: We are actively looking for developers for the project. Please drop me an e-mail if you want to join this project. We will use Python, so you need to be a Python guy to join the project. We are in planning phase, if you join us earlier, we will be able to share more ideas. You'd better define the purpose pretty clearly, as I don't see any purpose that's of value, yet. I agree with Joshua's points here. Think of people who do not want an installation via command line. Surely the only people installing from the command-line are those that want to. There's synaptic or yum or whatever to let you search for postgresql and handle all your dependencies for you. I mean *I* compile from source when I'm testing betas or want to backport and there's no package but I can't imagine most Ubuntu users bother. Now something to let you install extra modules, tune your postgresql.conf and pg_hba.conf - that's useful. If it can explain as it goes along, all the better (like bastille linux?) -- Richard Huxton Archonet Ltd ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI Installer for
J. Andrew Rogers wrote: snip A graphical installer for Unix is fine, but please, do not make it anything like Oracle's graphical installer. Oracle's graphical install process gives command line installs a good name for ease of use. J. Andrew Rogers I heartily second that! ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend
Re: [HACKERS] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI Installer for
On Jan 31, 2006, at 12:54 AM, Tino Wildenhain wrote: Rick Gigger schrieb: I don't see why anyone has a problem with this. I am certainly never going to use it but if it helps someone who isn't a linux person to use it on a project when they would have used something else (like mysql) or if it convinces someone to run postgres on linux instead of windows because they now have a graphical installer on linux then it seems like a good thing to me. More users = bigger community = larger potential pool of people to help out. Even if people can't code they can answer newbie (or advanced) questions on the mailing lists or write documentation or even just tell their dba friends about it. The more people using postgres the better. If this will help then I'm all for it. Just because I would rather do a ./ configure make make install doesn't mean that thats the best route for everyone. As was said, a gui to produce postgresql.conf files (off host) can be of value. Also for the tune-people a package builder can be useful too. For other people - if they dont learn a bit about their package system on their choosen system - they will run into other problems soon or later. Why would the necessarily have to run into problem with their packaging system. If someone installs from source it doesn't cause problems with packaging systems. Why should this have to be any different? ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI Installer for
On Mon, Jan 30, 2006 at 08:53:54PM -0800, Joshua D. Drake wrote: If I could install Oracle on Debian/AMD64 with a shell script, I'd drop Postgresql in a heartbeat. Obviously anybody is welcome and able to just write whatever software they feel is needed, but go ahead and count me among the skeptics. The installer is for the 98% not the 2%. You are in the 2%. I've yet to find *anyone* who likes the Oracle installer. It's absolutely the last thing I would use as a point of reference. Come to think of it, the DB2 installer was a pile of crap as well... My concern with this installer is that people are going to show up in -general or on IRC in droves with dependancy related problems with the installer. IMO it would be *much* better if we instead focused on something that made it easy to install stuff out of contrib and/or pgFoundry (and prefferably could be used without a GUI). But, OSS works by people scratching itches, so if there's folks who want to scratch this itch... -- Jim C. Nasby, Sr. Engineering Consultant [EMAIL PROTECTED] Pervasive Software http://pervasive.comwork: 512-231-6117 vcard: http://jim.nasby.net/pervasive.vcf cell: 512-569-9461 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI Installer for
On Tue, Jan 31, 2006 at 11:46:03AM +, Andreas Pflug wrote: Tino Wildenhain wrote: Figuring out the correct values for some of the buffers and costs is still a bit tough. Otoh, I guess there is no easy way to predict all these. pgAdmin has a mechanism to suggest values (currently for autovacuum and listen_address only), which waits for expansion :-) I could think of a wizard that asks decent questions, resulting in proposals. Whether implemented as GUI or not, a questionaire and suggested algorithms to calculate settings (eyeballed from Core) would be a good starting point. PostgreSQL *desperately* needs a better means of dealing with configuration (though I guess I shouldn't be pushing too hard for this since the current state of affairs brings me business). Any improvement in this area would be very welcome. http://pgfoundry.org/projects/configurator/ is something worth looking at. -- Jim C. Nasby, Sr. Engineering Consultant [EMAIL PROTECTED] Pervasive Software http://pervasive.comwork: 512-231-6117 vcard: http://jim.nasby.net/pervasive.vcf cell: 512-569-9461 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI Installer for
On Tue, 2006-01-31 at 13:02 -0600, Jim C. Nasby wrote: On Tue, Jan 31, 2006 at 11:46:03AM +, Andreas Pflug wrote: Tino Wildenhain wrote: Figuring out the correct values for some of the buffers and costs is still a bit tough. Otoh, I guess there is no easy way to predict all these. pgAdmin has a mechanism to suggest values (currently for autovacuum and listen_address only), which waits for expansion :-) I could think of a wizard that asks decent questions, resulting in proposals. Whether implemented as GUI or not, a questionaire and suggested algorithms to calculate settings (eyeballed from Core) would be a good starting point. PostgreSQL *desperately* needs a better means of dealing with configuration (though I guess I shouldn't be pushing too hard for this since the current state of affairs brings me business). Any improvement in this area would be very welcome. http://pgfoundry.org/projects/configurator/ is something worth looking at. An ideal facility would be a program that analyzes the workload at runtime and adjusts accordingly. That doesn't sound too hard, within some unambitious boundary. If anyone would like to work on this, I'd be happy to contribute. -jwb ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: don't forget to increase your free space map settings
[HACKERS] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI Installer for Linux/Unix systems
Hi, As you know, many databases that run on Linux / Unix systems have a GUI installer which make installation easier and more attractive for some people. Our Windows Installer is very attractive, for example. Now, I and Burcu Guzel, who is a Senior Programmer, decided to launch a new project: pgnixinstaller : http://pgfoundry.org/projects/pgnixinstaller/ We are actively looking for developers for the project. Please drop me an e-mail if you want to join this project. We will use Python, so you need to be a Python guy to join the project. We are in planning phase, if you join us earlier, we will be able to share more ideas. Regards, -- The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc. 1.503.667.4564 PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support Managed Services, Shared and Dedicated Hosting Co-Authors: plPHP, plPerlNG - http://www.commandprompt.com/ ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faq
Re: [HACKERS] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI Installer for Linux/Unix systems
We are actively looking for developers for the project. Please drop me an e-mail if you want to join this project. We will use Python, so you need to be a Python guy to join the project. We are in planning phase, if you join us earlier, we will be able to share more ideas. You'd better define the purpose pretty clearly, as I don't see any purpose that's of value, yet. On my Debian systems, I can install PostgreSQL quite readily via the command apt-get install postgresql-8.1, which can get GUIed at least somewhat if I run aptitude, synaptic, or such... I could see there being some value in a GUI for managing postmaster config files... -- let name=cbbrowne and tld=gmail.com in String.concat @ [name;tld];; http://cbbrowne.com/info/linuxdistributions.html High-level languages are a pretty good indicator that all else is seldom equal. - Tim Bradshaw, comp.lang.lisp ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI Installer for
On my Debian systems, I can install PostgreSQL quite readily via the command apt-get install postgresql-8.1, which can get GUIed at least somewhat if I run aptitude, synaptic, or such... Yes Christopher, you can... I can, and Devrim can As more and more people come on board people are going to want to download a .exe (a metaphor), double click and have it open an installer, they will then want to click next, next, continue, finish. You don't get that with apt-get install. There is a reason that even Oracle has a graphical installer on Linux, because most people installing the software: A. Don't know how to use it B. Probably don't know how to use Linux C. Don't want to. Joshua D. Drake ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend
Re: [HACKERS] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI Installer for
On Mon, 30 Jan 2006, Joshua D. Drake wrote: On my Debian systems, I can install PostgreSQL quite readily via the command apt-get install postgresql-8.1, which can get GUIed at least somewhat if I run aptitude, synaptic, or such... Yes Christopher, you can... I can, and Devrim can As more and more people come on board people are going to want to download a .exe (a metaphor), double click and have it open an installer, they will then want to click next, next, continue, finish. You don't get that with apt-get install. There is a reason that even Oracle has a graphical installer on Linux, because most people installing the software: A. Don't know how to use it B. Probably don't know how to use Linux C. Don't want to. i can't agree more ... I don't care whether you are running FreeBSD or Linux or Solaris ... if you want broader adoption of non-Microsoft OSs, you have to make it simplier for 'the masses' to make use of ... and GUIs tend to follow KISS very closely ... Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI Installer for
I don't see why anyone has a problem with this. I am certainly never going to use it but if it helps someone who isn't a linux person to use it on a project when they would have used something else (like mysql) or if it convinces someone to run postgres on linux instead of windows because they now have a graphical installer on linux then it seems like a good thing to me. More users = bigger community = larger potential pool of people to help out. Even if people can't code they can answer newbie (or advanced) questions on the mailing lists or write documentation or even just tell their dba friends about it. The more people using postgres the better. If this will help then I'm all for it. Just because I would rather do a ./configure make make install doesn't mean that thats the best route for everyone. Rick On Jan 30, 2006, at 8:58 PM, Marc G. Fournier wrote: On Mon, 30 Jan 2006, Joshua D. Drake wrote: On my Debian systems, I can install PostgreSQL quite readily via the command apt-get install postgresql-8.1, which can get GUIed at least somewhat if I run aptitude, synaptic, or such... Yes Christopher, you can... I can, and Devrim can As more and more people come on board people are going to want to download a .exe (a metaphor), double click and have it open an installer, they will then want to click next, next, continue, finish. You don't get that with apt-get install. There is a reason that even Oracle has a graphical installer on Linux, because most people installing the software: A. Don't know how to use it B. Probably don't know how to use Linux C. Don't want to. i can't agree more ... I don't care whether you are running FreeBSD or Linux or Solaris ... if you want broader adoption of non- Microsoft OSs, you have to make it simplier for 'the masses' to make use of ... and GUIs tend to follow KISS very closely ... Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http:// www.hub.org) Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
Re: [HACKERS] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI Installer for
On Mon, 2006-01-30 at 19:52 -0800, Joshua D. Drake wrote: On my Debian systems, I can install PostgreSQL quite readily via the command apt-get install postgresql-8.1, which can get GUIed at least somewhat if I run aptitude, synaptic, or such... Yes Christopher, you can... I can, and Devrim can As more and more people come on board people are going to want to download a .exe (a metaphor), double click and have it open an installer, they will then want to click next, next, continue, finish. There is such a thing as best practices. If you install postgresql in this glorious graphical manner, what will prevent you from accidentally upgrading a shared library which postgresql depends upon? Nothing, really, unless this installer is going to be able to customize, build, and install a native package on all the target operating systems. How will you do an orderly upgrade from one revision to the next, including all the dependencies? How will you distribute security updates? I predict this form of installation will cause a great many support headaches as users report problems which are caused by oddball compilers, strange CFLAGS, unreleased or strangely patched versions of shared libraries and headers, and so forth. You don't get that with apt-get install. Right, with apt-get install you get a package built with a known-good compiler, known-sane configure flags, and a method of pinning the dependencies, which passes at the very least a smoketest on Alpha, AMD64, ARM, HPPA, x86, IA64, 640x0, MIPS, PowerPC, S/390, and SPARC. There is a reason that even Oracle has a graphical installer on Linux, because most people installing the software: A. Don't know how to use it B. Probably don't know how to use Linux C. Don't want to. Oracle's graphical installer is a material impediment to Oracle adoption. The installer only works on systems where particular versions of Java and Motif libraries are available. On 64-bit Opteron systems it only works with the peculiar 32-bit thunking tree favored by Red Hat and hardly anybody else. If I could install Oracle on Debian/AMD64 with a shell script, I'd drop Postgresql in a heartbeat. Obviously anybody is welcome and able to just write whatever software they feel is needed, but go ahead and count me among the skeptics. -jwb ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faq
Re: [HACKERS] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI Installer for
Devrim GUNDUZ wrote: Have you looked at AutoPackage? http://autopackage.org screen shots. http://autopackage.org/gallery.html Has a GUI wizard if X windows is available and a command line wizard if no X is available. Using autopackage is similar to using MSI,Wise,Inno etc on Windows. Later, -- Tony Caduto AM Software Design Home of PG Lightning Admin for Postgresql http://www.amsoftwaredesign.com ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI Installer for
Oracle's graphical installer is a material impediment to Oracle adoption. The installer only works on systems where particular versions of Java and Motif libraries are available. On 64-bit Opteron systems it only works with the peculiar 32-bit thunking tree favored by Red Hat and hardly anybody else. If I could install Oracle on Debian/AMD64 with a shell script, I'd drop Postgresql in a heartbeat. Obviously anybody is welcome and able to just write whatever software they feel is needed, but go ahead and count me among the skeptics. The installer is for the 98% not the 2%. You are in the 2%. Joshua D. Drake -jwb ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faq -- The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc. 1.503.667.4564 PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support Managed Services, Shared and Dedicated Hosting Co-Authors: PLphp, PLperl - http://www.commandprompt.com/ ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend
Re: [HACKERS] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI Installer for
On Mon, 2006-01-30 at 20:53 -0800, Joshua D. Drake wrote: Oracle's graphical installer is a material impediment to Oracle adoption. The installer only works on systems where particular versions of Java and Motif libraries are available. On 64-bit Opteron systems it only works with the peculiar 32-bit thunking tree favored by Red Hat and hardly anybody else. If I could install Oracle on Debian/AMD64 with a shell script, I'd drop Postgresql in a heartbeat. Obviously anybody is welcome and able to just write whatever software they feel is needed, but go ahead and count me among the skeptics. The installer is for the 98% not the 2%. You are in the 2%. Right, and it would make FAR more sense if Oracle just shipped the whole thing, operating system and the works, on a single installer image. So why don't you just do that with Postgres? You could call it Bootable PostgreSQL. It would be a big hit. When a new version comes out, you can just mail out a new DVD. That would be a lot better than pretending to know how to fit in, best practices and the works, with all the various Unix systems out there. -jwb ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend
Re: [HACKERS] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI Installer for
Jeff, So why don't you just do that with Postgres? You could call it Bootable PostgreSQL. It would be a big hit. When a new version comes out, you can just mail out a new DVD. Actually, we have these. We give them out at conferences. --Josh ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend
Re: [GENERAL] [HACKERS] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI Installer for
On Jan 30, 2006, at 8:48 PM, Tony Caduto wrote: Devrim GUNDUZ wrote: Have you looked at AutoPackage? http://autopackage.org screen shots. http://autopackage.org/gallery.html Has a GUI wizard if X windows is available and a command line wizard if no X is available. Using autopackage is similar to using MSI,Wise,Inno etc on Windows. If that's the one that uses aptools it looks _excellent_. Until you try and use it. It looked as though it would solve many of my packaging problems, not least deploying on older platforms than the build box, but simply didn't work on anything more complex than toy code. I suspect that if you were just using it as a general installer, rather than any of the portability magic, it might be worth a look. Cheers, Steve ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
Re: [HACKERS] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI Installer for
Devrim GUNDUZ schrieb: Hi, As you know, many databases that run on Linux / Unix systems have a GUI installer which make installation easier and more attractive for some people. If you think of the *racle-GUI-Installer, most people find it very s*cking ;) Our Windows Installer is very attractive, for example. Now, I and Burcu Guzel, who is a Senior Programmer, decided to launch a new project: pgnixinstaller : http://pgfoundry.org/projects/pgnixinstaller/ We are actively looking for developers for the project. Please drop me an e-mail if you want to join this project. We will use Python, so you need to be a Python guy to join the project. We are in planning phase, if you join us earlier, we will be able to share more ideas. Might be fun of course. But on unix you usually have some kind of package system anyway - how is the installer supposed to play nicely with them? Regards Tino ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faq
Re: [HACKERS] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI Installer for
Joshua D. Drake schrieb: ... As more and more people come on board people are going to want to download a .exe (a metaphor), double click and have it open an installer, they will then want to click next, next, continue, finish. You don't get that with apt-get install. Well you can use a frontend and search and click as well. I see no problem - and it really works, as opposed to: There is a reason that even Oracle has a graphical installer on Linux, because most people installing the software: A. Don't know how to use it B. Probably don't know how to use Linux C. Don't want to. Hehehe. Did you actually use this installer? I did! And lets tell you, you dont come by w/o any linux/unix knowledge. Regards Tino ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI Installer for
Rick Gigger schrieb: I don't see why anyone has a problem with this. I am certainly never going to use it but if it helps someone who isn't a linux person to use it on a project when they would have used something else (like mysql) or if it convinces someone to run postgres on linux instead of windows because they now have a graphical installer on linux then it seems like a good thing to me. More users = bigger community = larger potential pool of people to help out. Even if people can't code they can answer newbie (or advanced) questions on the mailing lists or write documentation or even just tell their dba friends about it. The more people using postgres the better. If this will help then I'm all for it. Just because I would rather do a ./configure make make install doesn't mean that thats the best route for everyone. As was said, a gui to produce postgresql.conf files (off host) can be of value. Also for the tune-people a package builder can be useful too. For other people - if they dont learn a bit about their package system on their choosen system - they will run into other problems soon or later. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
Re: [HACKERS] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI Installer for
On Jan 30, 2006, at 7:52 PM, Joshua D. Drake wrote: There is a reason that even Oracle has a graphical installer on Linux, because most people installing the software: A. Don't know how to use it B. Probably don't know how to use Linux C. Don't want to. Except that the Oracle graphical installer usually requires a non- trivial amount of command line kung-fu that alone is more complex than the entirety of the command line installation of PostgreSQL. Oracle installation is an unpleasant and painful process even under the best of circumstances, and I've never had one that required less effort than Postgres for a vanilla install. And I always install postgres from source. If ./configure; make; make install scares away people, sorting out the dependency hell getting the Oracle installer to even run on nominally supported platforms will definitely scare them away. A graphical installer for Unix is fine, but please, do not make it anything like Oracle's graphical installer. Oracle's graphical install process gives command line installs a good name for ease of use. J. Andrew Rogers ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
