Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI
Christopher Browne wrote: Devrim GUNDUZ wrote: Hi, On Mon, 2006-01-30 at 21:27 -0500, Jonah H. Harris wrote: I had to deal with an installer written in python and several in Java... IMHO, Java would be a better language for this and you could build off some nice OSS installers that already exist (such as IzPack). Just my 2 cents :) Bundling Java is a pain, so we'd better stay away from that. There's always gcj. It's pretty mature by now. I'm not sure about availability compared to Python though, but I find it hard to believe it would be more painful. On several occasions, I have installed graphical Python apps; it has never been the bag of worms involved in getting a Java environment into place... Install gcj and you're up and running, graphics and all. What's the problem (besides your obvious aversion to Java)? Or take it one step further and use gcj to compile the Java code into statically linked binaries. Where's the pain, really? Regards, Thomas Hallgren ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI
> Devrim GUNDUZ wrote: >> Hi, >> On Mon, 2006-01-30 at 21:27 -0500, Jonah H. Harris wrote: >>> I had to deal with an installer written in python and several in >>> Java... IMHO, Java would be a better language for this and you could >>> build off some nice OSS installers that already exist (such as >>> IzPack). Just my 2 cents :) >> Bundling Java is a pain, so we'd better stay away from that. >> > > There's always gcj. It's pretty mature by now. I'm not sure about > availability compared to Python though, but I find it hard to believe > it would be more painful. On several occasions, I have installed graphical Python apps; it has never been the bag of worms involved in getting a Java environment into place... -- select 'cbbrowne' || '@' || 'gmail.com'; http://linuxfinances.info/info/wp.html Signs of a Klingon Programmer #7: "Klingon function calls do not have 'parameters' -- they have 'arguments' -- and they ALWAYS WIN THEM." ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: don't forget to increase your free space map settings
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI
Devrim GUNDUZ wrote: Hi, On Mon, 2006-01-30 at 21:27 -0500, Jonah H. Harris wrote: I had to deal with an installer written in python and several in Java... IMHO, Java would be a better language for this and you could build off some nice OSS installers that already exist (such as IzPack). Just my 2 cents :) Bundling Java is a pain, so we'd better stay away from that. There's always gcj. It's pretty mature by now. I'm not sure about availability compared to Python though, but I find it hard to believe it would be more painful. Regards, Thomas Hallgren ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI
Hi, On Mon, 2006-01-30 at 21:27 -0500, Jonah H. Harris wrote: > I had to deal with an installer written in python and several in > Java... IMHO, Java would be a better language for this and you could > build off some nice OSS installers that already exist (such as > IzPack). Just my 2 cents :) Bundling Java is a pain, so we'd better stay away from that. Regards, -- The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc. 1.503.667.4564 PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support Managed Services, Shared and Dedicated Hosting Co-Authors: plPHP, plPerlNG - http://www.commandprompt.com/ ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: don't forget to increase your free space map settings
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI Installer for
Hi, On Tue, 2006-01-31 at 08:36 +0100, Tino Wildenhain wrote: > >>Are you going to work with the underlying system's package manager, or > >>put everything in /usr/local? > > > > > > We'll work with the package manager -- I'm an RPM guy ;) > > > RPM isnt the only packaging system out there ;) I used RPM as an alias to package managers :) Regards, -- The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc. 1.503.667.4564 PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support Managed Services, Shared and Dedicated Hosting Co-Authors: plPHP, plPerlNG - http://www.commandprompt.com/ ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI
Tino Wildenhain wrote: Jonah H. Harris schrieb: I had to deal with an installer written in python and several in Java... IMHO, Java would be a better language for this and you could build off some nice OSS installers that already exist (such as IzPack). Just my 2 cents :) Yes! Use Java for ultimate suckiness of the installer ;) I love to install all X11, Java and stuff on a server to be able to install a package with about 1/10 the size ;) How about postponing choice of implementation language until it's clear what it is that should be implemented ;-) Regards, Thomas Hallgren ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faq
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI
On Tue, 2006-01-31 at 03:50 -0400, Marc G. Fournier wrote: > On Tue, 31 Jan 2006, Tino Wildenhain wrote: > > > Devrim GUNDUZ schrieb: > >> Hi, > >> > > ... > >>> Are you going to work with the underlying system's package manager, or > >>> put everything in /usr/local? > >> > >> > >> We'll work with the package manager -- I'm an RPM guy ;) > >> > > RPM isnt the only packaging system out there ;) > > I thought that Linux had this 'Linux Standard File System' or some such > that described where files were supposed to be installed? Or is this > another one of those Standards that nobody follows? :( Package management goes beyond sticking the files in the right place. If that were the only requirement, then tar(1) would be a package manager. As for the Linux Standards Base, that is little more than Red Hat and their like-minded friends getting together in a committee and declaring the way they already do everything to be a "standard". Generally the LSB holds the short-term needs of commercial Linux distributors above other considerations. -jwb ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI
On Tue, 31 Jan 2006, Tino Wildenhain wrote: Devrim GUNDUZ schrieb: Hi, ... Are you going to work with the underlying system's package manager, or put everything in /usr/local? We'll work with the package manager -- I'm an RPM guy ;) RPM isnt the only packaging system out there ;) I thought that Linux had this 'Linux Standard File System' or some such that described where files were supposed to be installed? Or is this another one of those Standards that nobody follows? :( I know under FreeBSD, its simple: --prefix=/usr/local and away you go ... Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI
Jonah H. Harris schrieb: I had to deal with an installer written in python and several in Java... IMHO, Java would be a better language for this and you could build off some nice OSS installers that already exist (such as IzPack). Just my 2 cents :) Yes! Use Java for ultimate suckiness of the installer ;) I love to install all X11, Java and stuff on a server to be able to install a package with about 1/10 the size ;) SCNR Tino ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI Installer for
Devrim GUNDUZ schrieb: Hi, ... Are you going to work with the underlying system's package manager, or put everything in /usr/local? We'll work with the package manager -- I'm an RPM guy ;) RPM isnt the only packaging system out there ;) ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faq
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI
Marc G. Fournier wrote: On Tue, 31 Jan 2006, Devrim GUNDUZ wrote: On my RHEL boxes, I do never ever recompile the kernel since Red Hat does not provide support if I do so :) Is everything 'loadable modules' then? I can't imagine you have some mammoth kernel running on your system, do you? with every conceivable piece of hardware configured in? Yes except for "core" modules almost everything in Linux is a loadable module. Sincerely, Joshua D. Drake ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: don't forget to increase your free space map settings
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI
"Marc G. Fournier" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On Tue, 31 Jan 2006, Devrim GUNDUZ wrote: > >> On my RHEL boxes, I do never ever recompile the kernel since Red Hat >> does not provide support if I do so :) > > Is everything 'loadable modules' then? I can't imagine you have some > mammoth kernel running on your system, do you? with every conceivable > piece of hardware configured in? Yes, vendor kernels are very modular--most drivers, packet filtering, scsi etc are all loadable modules. You can of course build your own kernel with only the drivers you need built-in, but it usually doesn't make very much difference. The module system works, in general, extremely well. -Doug ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI
I had to deal with an installer written in python and several in Java... IMHO, Java would be a better language for this and you could build off some nice OSS installers that already exist (such as IzPack). Just my 2 cents :) On 1/30/06, Devrim GUNDUZ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi,On Mon, 2006-01-30 at 22:04 -0400, Marc G. Fournier wrote:>> BTW, gcc is not installed on by default AFAIR.>> Wow, how do you update the kernel each week? :)>> More seriously, I know under FreeBSD, one of the first things that gets > done after installing is to customize the kernel to get rid of all the> 'cruft' part of the generic kernel, I take it that this isn't something> that ppl do with Linux?On systems that have a packaging system, you are supposed to download and install vendor kernels. There is "no need" to build the kernel.However, if you want to build, then you need to install developmentenvironment.On my RHEL boxes, I do never ever recompile the kernel since Red Hat does not provide support if I do so :)Regards,--The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc. 1.503.667.4564PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 supportManaged Services, Shared and Dedicated Hosting Co-Authors: plPHP, plPerlNG - http://www.commandprompt.com/---(end of broadcast)---TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI
Marc G. Fournier wrote: More seriously, I know under FreeBSD, one of the first things that gets done after installing is to customize the kernel to get rid of all the 'cruft' part of the generic kernel, I take it that this isn't something that ppl do with Linux? The Linux kernel has loadable modules, so it's much less of an issue. For example, I just installed the Cisco VPN s/w on my FC4 box. I didn't have to rebuild the kernel, all I have to do is to load the kernel module that puts a wedge in the IP stack. The parts of the kernel that are optional are almost all loadable modules. Some people do build static kernels. That makes sense when you have tightly controlled hardware and software requirements. I mostly don't bother. cheers andrew ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI
On Tue, 31 Jan 2006, Devrim GUNDUZ wrote: On my RHEL boxes, I do never ever recompile the kernel since Red Hat does not provide support if I do so :) Is everything 'loadable modules' then? I can't imagine you have some mammoth kernel running on your system, do you? with every conceivable piece of hardware configured in? Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI
Hi, On Mon, 2006-01-30 at 22:04 -0400, Marc G. Fournier wrote: >> BTW, gcc is not installed on by default AFAIR. > > Wow, how do you update the kernel each week? :) > > More seriously, I know under FreeBSD, one of the first things that gets > done after installing is to customize the kernel to get rid of all the > 'cruft' part of the generic kernel, I take it that this isn't something > that ppl do with Linux? On systems that have a packaging system, you are supposed to download and install vendor kernels. There is "no need" to build the kernel. However, if you want to build, then you need to install development environment. On my RHEL boxes, I do never ever recompile the kernel since Red Hat does not provide support if I do so :) Regards, -- The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc. 1.503.667.4564 PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support Managed Services, Shared and Dedicated Hosting Co-Authors: plPHP, plPerlNG - http://www.commandprompt.com/ ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI
On Tue, 31 Jan 2006, Devrim GUNDUZ wrote: BTW, gcc is not installed on by default AFAIR. Wow, how do you update the kernel each week? :) More seriously, I know under FreeBSD, one of the first things that gets done after installing is to customize the kernel to get rid of all the 'cruft' part of the generic kernel, I take it that this isn't something that ppl do with Linux? Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI
Hi, On Mon, 2006-01-30 at 20:31 -0500, Doug McNaught wrote: > > You can install, but what if you need different configure options than > > the package provides? This means a rebuild of the package. Instead, we > > will build and install that package via the installer. > > That's actually a pretty cool idea--compile and generate debs/rpms > that reflect the user's choices, then install them. But the > dependency on a compiler adds a twist of complexity--"sorry, you need > to install the following system packages (gcc, etc) before you can > install Postgres as you've configured it." Not horrible, but perhaps > intimidating for the GUI crowd? :) Is gcc in the bog-standard > default install on FC these days? We can pre-check the prerequisites for building the package and raise an error before beginning to build the package. It is not that hard. For example, RPMs have BuildRequires tags and we can compare those with the packages installed in the system. BTW, gcc is not installed on by default AFAIR. Regards, -- The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc. 1.503.667.4564 PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support Managed Services, Shared and Dedicated Hosting Co-Authors: plPHP, plPerlNG - http://www.commandprompt.com/ ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI
Hi, On Mon, 2006-01-30 at 21:34 -0400, Marc G. Fournier wrote: > > OTOH, exluding Synaptic that I hate to use, FC / RH does not have a GUI > > RPM interface for the repositories. So our installer will help them a > > lot. Also, our installer will have an option to download and install the > > prebuilt binaries from PostgreSQL FTP site (and possible other sites) > > And pull down/build/install the various extensions on pgFoundry? :) Another good idea. Thanks Marc. Regards, -- The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc. 1.503.667.4564 PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support Managed Services, Shared and Dedicated Hosting Co-Authors: plPHP, plPerlNG - http://www.commandprompt.com/ ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI
Hi, On Mon, 2006-01-30 at 20:31 -0500, Doug McNaught wrote: > > Certainly you can install pre-built binaries without a compiler, and > let the user choose database location, autovacuum settings and stuff > like that. That's another good point. We can adjust many settings before installing. Regards, -- The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc. 1.503.667.4564 PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support Managed Services, Shared and Dedicated Hosting Co-Authors: plPHP, plPerlNG - http://www.commandprompt.com/ ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faq
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI
On Tue, 31 Jan 2006, Devrim GUNDUZ wrote: Hi, On Mon, 2006-01-30 at 20:03 -0500, Doug McNaught wrote: We are actively looking for developers for the project. Please drop me an e-mail if you want to join this project. We will use Python, so you need to be a Python guy to join the project. We are in planning phase, if you join us earlier, we will be able to share more ideas. What value does this bring to systems that have a good package system and up-to-date repositories? I can install Postgres today on Ubuntu using a GUI tool, and install another GUI tool to configure and adminsiter it. You can install, but what if you need different configure options than the package provides? This means a rebuild of the package. Instead, we will build and install that package via the installer. OTOH, exluding Synaptic that I hate to use, FC / RH does not have a GUI RPM interface for the repositories. So our installer will help them a lot. Also, our installer will have an option to download and install the prebuilt binaries from PostgreSQL FTP site (and possible other sites) And pull down/build/install the various extensions on pgFoundry? :) Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI
Hi, On Mon, 2006-01-30 at 20:27 -0500, Andrew Dunstan wrote: > >OTOH, exluding Synaptic that I hate to use, FC / RH does not have a GUI > >RPM interface for the repositories. So our installer will help them a > >lot. Also, our installer will have an option to download and install the > >prebuilt binaries from PostgreSQL FTP site (and possible other sites) > > There's yumex ... http://fedoranews.org/tchung/yumex/ Thanks for the info. I haven't heard about it before... However none of them are PostgreSQL Installers, none of them has the ability to customize the packages and none of them has the ability to install the community packages, etc. :) Regards, -- The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc. 1.503.667.4564 PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support Managed Services, Shared and Dedicated Hosting Co-Authors: plPHP, plPerlNG - http://www.commandprompt.com/ ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI
Devrim GUNDUZ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On Mon, 2006-01-30 at 20:03 -0500, Doug McNaught wrote: > >> What value does this bring to systems that have a good package system >> and up-to-date repositories? I can install Postgres today on Ubuntu >> using a GUI tool, and install another GUI tool to configure and >> adminsiter it. > > You can install, but what if you need different configure options than > the package provides? This means a rebuild of the package. Instead, we > will build and install that package via the installer. That's actually a pretty cool idea--compile and generate debs/rpms that reflect the user's choices, then install them. But the dependency on a compiler adds a twist of complexity--"sorry, you need to install the following system packages (gcc, etc) before you can install Postgres as you've configured it." Not horrible, but perhaps intimidating for the GUI crowd? :) Is gcc in the bog-standard default install on FC these days? Certainly you can install pre-built binaries without a compiler, and let the user choose database location, autovacuum settings and stuff like that. Good luck! -Doug ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI Installer
Devrim GUNDUZ wrote: OTOH, exluding Synaptic that I hate to use, FC / RH does not have a GUI RPM interface for the repositories. So our installer will help them a lot. Also, our installer will have an option to download and install the prebuilt binaries from PostgreSQL FTP site (and possible other sites) There's yumex ... http://fedoranews.org/tchung/yumex/ cheers andrew ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI Installer for
Hi, On Mon, 2006-01-30 at 20:03 -0500, Doug McNaught wrote: > > We are actively looking for developers for the project. Please drop me > > an e-mail if you want to join this project. We will use Python, so you > > need to be a Python guy to join the project. We are in planning phase, > > if you join us earlier, we will be able to share more ideas. > > What value does this bring to systems that have a good package system > and up-to-date repositories? I can install Postgres today on Ubuntu > using a GUI tool, and install another GUI tool to configure and > adminsiter it. You can install, but what if you need different configure options than the package provides? This means a rebuild of the package. Instead, we will build and install that package via the installer. OTOH, exluding Synaptic that I hate to use, FC / RH does not have a GUI RPM interface for the repositories. So our installer will help them a lot. Also, our installer will have an option to download and install the prebuilt binaries from PostgreSQL FTP site (and possible other sites) > For systems like Solaris I can see it maybe being a win. Agreed. > Are you going to work with the underlying system's package manager, or > put everything in /usr/local? We'll work with the package manager -- I'm an RPM guy ;) Regards, -- The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc. 1.503.667.4564 PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support Managed Services, Shared and Dedicated Hosting Co-Authors: plPHP, plPerlNG - http://www.commandprompt.com/ ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI Installer for
Devrim GUNDUZ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > http://pgfoundry.org/projects/pgnixinstaller/ > > We are actively looking for developers for the project. Please drop me > an e-mail if you want to join this project. We will use Python, so you > need to be a Python guy to join the project. We are in planning phase, > if you join us earlier, we will be able to share more ideas. What value does this bring to systems that have a good package system and up-to-date repositories? I can install Postgres today on Ubuntu using a GUI tool, and install another GUI tool to configure and adminsiter it. For systems like Solaris I can see it maybe being a win. Are you going to work with the underlying system's package manager, or put everything in /usr/local? -Doug ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
