Re: [HACKERS] journaling in contrib ...

[Marc G. Fournier]

On Thu, 15 Aug 2002, Peter Eisentraut wrote:

> Bruce Momjian writes:
>
> > OK, we got _that_ answer.  Looks like gborg.  Marc really wants to pump
> > that up.
>
> I think if gborg had a different name and looked more like the main site,
> more people would consider using it without feeling "kicked out".

Well, that's the first I've heard of anything like that, but several
points to make here ... Chris Ryan has been actively working with the www
group working on the web towards addresssing issues with GBorg, and be,
the 'main site' is currently in the process of getting totally overhauled
by said group ...

Nobody is being kicked out ... we now have an effective method of managing
projects without them being part of the centrali distribution ... 'being
kicked out', to me, would mean pushing them over to DB2+Sourceforge ;)



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Fwd: Re: [HACKERS] journaling in contrib ...

[Robert Kernell]

interesting.



>From: Peter Eisentraut <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: Bruce Momjian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>CC: Tom Lane <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,Gavin Sherry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, 
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: Re: [HACKERS] journaling in contrib ...
>Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 00:01:41 +0200 (CEST)
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>Bruce Momjian writes:
>
> > OK, we got _that_ answer.  Looks like gborg.  Marc really wants to pump
> > that up.
>
>I think if gborg had a different name and looked more like the main site,
>more people would consider using it without feeling "kicked out".
>
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Re: [HACKERS] journaling in contrib ...

[Peter Eisentraut]

Bruce Momjian writes:

> OK, we got _that_ answer.  Looks like gborg.  Marc really wants to pump
> that up.

I think if gborg had a different name and looked more like the main site,
more people would consider using it without feeling "kicked out".

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Re: [HACKERS] journaling in contrib ...

[Brett Schwarz]

On Wed, 2002-08-14 at 12:47, Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> On Wed, 14 Aug 2002, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> 
> > Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> > > > They are moving pgaccess more into the admin role, and pgmonitor fit in
> > > > with that.
> > >
> > > Personally, I kinda like to be able to run admin modularized ... they
> > > *should* be looking at stuff like webmin, where you can plug-n-play admin
> > > functions as required, or horde (http://www.horde.org) ...


or http://jfontain.free.fr/moodss/index.html


> > > why would I
> > > install pgaccess if all I want to do is monitor?  Now, to be able to
> > > install pgaccess and have pgmonitor tie into *that* would be cool ...
> > >
> > > 'bigger is better' is MicroSloth's philosophy ... sounds like the PgAccess
> > > guys are adopting it too? :(
> >
> > I assume pgmonitor will just be a new tab in the pgaccess window.  It is
> > integrated only in that it is part of the tcl scripts supplied.
> 
> Right, but, if its 'integrated', then I have to download the whole thing
> ... I only want pgmonitor, so how can I get that now?
> 
> Again, if they do it *properly*, it should be a seperate module you can
> download, enable in a config file for pgaccess and have show up ... but it
> should be runnable standalone, with all the extras ...
> 

Ok, this is a little off topic for this thread, but maybe I can clear
this up really quick, so things can move on.

We wanted to have capabilities that PGMonitor provides, in PGAccess. So,
we asked Bruce if we could just integrate PGMonitor, and he said yes. To
me, it makes sense. Of course you can argue forever on which is better:
one big app that contains all the functionality, or several small apps
that spread the functionality (ala unix utils). You will get valid
arguments on both sides...it is more of a preference thing I believe.

Currently, I am integrating it into PGAccess, and I did have to make
some modifications for it to work (sorry Bruce...not too many though).
However, it is my intention to make this more of a plugin, and also be
able to run standalone. So, if you *don't* want PGMonitor, then you
don't have to have it, but you will also be able to call PGMonitor by
itself (I really haven't decided on a best method yet).

So, to answer your question, in the future, you will be able to use
PGMonitor standalone. I assumed this from the beginning, since existing
users of PGMonitor may not want to use PGAccess (like yourself).

--brett


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Re: [HACKERS] journaling in contrib ...

[Bruce Momjian]

Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> On Wed, 14 Aug 2002, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> 
> > Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> > > > They are moving pgaccess more into the admin role, and pgmonitor fit in
> > > > with that.
> > >
> > > Personally, I kinda like to be able to run admin modularized ... they
> > > *should* be looking at stuff like webmin, where you can plug-n-play admin
> > > functions as required, or horde (http://www.horde.org) ... why would I
> > > install pgaccess if all I want to do is monitor?  Now, to be able to
> > > install pgaccess and have pgmonitor tie into *that* would be cool ...
> > >
> > > 'bigger is better' is MicroSloth's philosophy ... sounds like the PgAccess
> > > guys are adopting it too? :(
> >
> > I assume pgmonitor will just be a new tab in the pgaccess window.  It is
> > integrated only in that it is part of the tcl scripts supplied.
> 
> Right, but, if its 'integrated', then I have to download the whole thing
> ... I only want pgmonitor, so how can I get that now?
> 
> Again, if they do it *properly*, it should be a seperate module you can
> download, enable in a config file for pgaccess and have show up ... but it
> should be runnable standalone, with all the extras ...

My guess is that it will be integrated and not stand-alone, though tcl
apps are so small, you may never notice.

-- 
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Re: [HACKERS] journaling in contrib ...

[Marc G. Fournier]

On Wed, 14 Aug 2002, Bruce Momjian wrote:

> Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> > > They are moving pgaccess more into the admin role, and pgmonitor fit in
> > > with that.
> >
> > Personally, I kinda like to be able to run admin modularized ... they
> > *should* be looking at stuff like webmin, where you can plug-n-play admin
> > functions as required, or horde (http://www.horde.org) ... why would I
> > install pgaccess if all I want to do is monitor?  Now, to be able to
> > install pgaccess and have pgmonitor tie into *that* would be cool ...
> >
> > 'bigger is better' is MicroSloth's philosophy ... sounds like the PgAccess
> > guys are adopting it too? :(
>
> I assume pgmonitor will just be a new tab in the pgaccess window.  It is
> integrated only in that it is part of the tcl scripts supplied.

Right, but, if its 'integrated', then I have to download the whole thing
... I only want pgmonitor, so how can I get that now?

Again, if they do it *properly*, it should be a seperate module you can
download, enable in a config file for pgaccess and have show up ... but it
should be runnable standalone, with all the extras ...


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Re: [HACKERS] journaling in contrib ...

[Bruce Momjian]

Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> > They are moving pgaccess more into the admin role, and pgmonitor fit in
> > with that.
> 
> Personally, I kinda like to be able to run admin modularized ... they
> *should* be looking at stuff like webmin, where you can plug-n-play admin
> functions as required, or horde (http://www.horde.org) ... why would I
> install pgaccess if all I want to do is monitor?  Now, to be able to
> install pgaccess and have pgmonitor tie into *that* would be cool ...
> 
> 'bigger is better' is MicroSloth's philosophy ... sounds like the PgAccess
> guys are adopting it too? :(

I assume pgmonitor will just be a new tab in the pgaccess window.  It is
integrated only in that it is part of the tcl scripts supplied.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian|  http://candle.pha.pa.us
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]   |  (610) 359-1001
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Re: [HACKERS] journaling in contrib ...

[Marc G. Fournier]

On Wed, 14 Aug 2002, Bruce Momjian wrote:

> Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> > On Wed, 14 Aug 2002, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> >
> > > Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> > > > Anything in contrib that can be built seperately from the server code,
> > > > that just requires libpq and headers, should be pulled and distributed as
> > > > seperate modules, which has the added benefit that, if listed on GBorg,
> > > > search engines will pick up the modules ...
> > > >
> > > > And the whole arg that someone threw out about 'nobody maintaining them if
> > > > they aren't part of the distribution' ... so?  if nobody is maintaining,
> > > > then who is using??
> > >
> > > Want to hear something funny?  They are moving my pgmonitor off gborg
> > > and into the pgaccess.  When the move is final, I will add a link on
> > > that gborg page.
> >
> > Ah, so now if I want to use pgmonitor, I have to use pgaccess?  guess that
> > is one way to sell pgaccess to the masses *shrug*
>
> They are moving pgaccess more into the admin role, and pgmonitor fit in
> with that.

Personally, I kinda like to be able to run admin modularized ... they
*should* be looking at stuff like webmin, where you can plug-n-play admin
functions as required, or horde (http://www.horde.org) ... why would I
install pgaccess if all I want to do is monitor?  Now, to be able to
install pgaccess and have pgmonitor tie into *that* would be cool ...

'bigger is better' is MicroSloth's philosophy ... sounds like the PgAccess
guys are adopting it too? :(


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Re: [HACKERS] journaling in contrib ...

[Bruce Momjian]

Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> On Wed, 14 Aug 2002, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> 
> > Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> > > Anything in contrib that can be built seperately from the server code,
> > > that just requires libpq and headers, should be pulled and distributed as
> > > seperate modules, which has the added benefit that, if listed on GBorg,
> > > search engines will pick up the modules ...
> > >
> > > And the whole arg that someone threw out about 'nobody maintaining them if
> > > they aren't part of the distribution' ... so?  if nobody is maintaining,
> > > then who is using??
> >
> > Want to hear something funny?  They are moving my pgmonitor off gborg
> > and into the pgaccess.  When the move is final, I will add a link on
> > that gborg page.
> 
> Ah, so now if I want to use pgmonitor, I have to use pgaccess?  guess that
> is one way to sell pgaccess to the masses *shrug*

They are moving pgaccess more into the admin role, and pgmonitor fit in
with that.


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Re: [HACKERS] journaling in contrib ...

[Marc G. Fournier]

On Wed, 14 Aug 2002, Bruce Momjian wrote:

> Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> > Anything in contrib that can be built seperately from the server code,
> > that just requires libpq and headers, should be pulled and distributed as
> > seperate modules, which has the added benefit that, if listed on GBorg,
> > search engines will pick up the modules ...
> >
> > And the whole arg that someone threw out about 'nobody maintaining them if
> > they aren't part of the distribution' ... so?  if nobody is maintaining,
> > then who is using??
>
> Want to hear something funny?  They are moving my pgmonitor off gborg
> and into the pgaccess.  When the move is final, I will add a link on
> that gborg page.

Ah, so now if I want to use pgmonitor, I have to use pgaccess?  guess that
is one way to sell pgaccess to the masses *shrug*



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Re: [HACKERS] journaling in contrib ...

[Bruce Momjian]

Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> Anything in contrib that can be built seperately from the server code,
> that just requires libpq and headers, should be pulled and distributed as
> seperate modules, which has the added benefit that, if listed on GBorg,
> search engines will pick up the modules ...
> 
> And the whole arg that someone threw out about 'nobody maintaining them if
> they aren't part of the distribution' ... so?  if nobody is maintaining,
> then who is using??

Want to hear something funny?  They are moving my pgmonitor off gborg
and into the pgaccess.  When the move is final, I will add a link on
that gborg page.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian|  http://candle.pha.pa.us
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]   |  (610) 359-1001
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Re: [HACKERS] journaling in contrib ...

[Bruce Momjian]

Tom Lane wrote:
> I'd suggest dropping the talk slides (and you might as well flatten the
> thing into one directory).  Perhaps instead the README could include a
> pointer to where to find the talk slides on-line.  That'd bring it down
> to half a dozen K which is a more appropriate size for a contrib item
> (and hopefully will not trigger Marc's wrath ;-)).

  
OK, we got _that_ answer.  Looks like gborg.  Marc really wants to pump
that up.

-- 
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Re: [HACKERS] journaling in contrib ...

[Marc G. Fournier]

On Wed, 14 Aug 2002, Tom Lane wrote:

> Gavin Sherry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > On Wed, 14 Aug 2002, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> >> I think this belongs on gborg.  Would you create a project there?
>
> > A number of people at OSCON did consider this to be a nice contrib
> > feature. Out of curiousity, what makes it more suitable for gborg?
>
> I think Bruce is unhappy with the size of the tarball (220K!), and
> I was too when I first saw it.  But it turns out that nearly all of
> it is a copy of Hans' slides from his OSCON talk, which I don't think
> is appropriate to include in contrib anyway.  (For one thing, not
> everyone can read .sxi format.  I can't at the moment.)
>
> I'd suggest dropping the talk slides (and you might as well flatten the
> thing into one directory).  Perhaps instead the README could include a
> pointer to where to find the talk slides on-line.  That'd bring it down
> to half a dozen K which is a more appropriate size for a contrib item
> (and hopefully will not trigger Marc's wrath ;-)).

S'alright, I figured I'd read all the posts on the subject before I
responded in agreement with Bruce ...

*If* we start referring ppl and projects to GBorg, more ppl will go see
what is available ... how many ppl *look* in contrib to see what is
avalable in there?  I know that unless I'm searching for something
specific, I never check out what is in contrib, but more oft search places
like freshmeat to see if someone has done it already ...

The original reason for contrib was *if* someone submit'd a patch to
extend the server, but we weren't quite sure whether it should go in, we'd
give it one release in contrib to see if it would be useful before either
trashing it, or incorporating it ... the reality of the situation: we've
never trashed anything, and rarely incorporated ...

Anything in contrib that can be built seperately from the server code,
that just requires libpq and headers, should be pulled and distributed as
seperate modules, which has the added benefit that, if listed on GBorg,
search engines will pick up the modules ...

And the whole arg that someone threw out about 'nobody maintaining them if
they aren't part of the distribution' ... so?  if nobody is maintaining,
then who is using??


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Re: [HACKERS] journaling in contrib ...

[Tom Lane]

Gavin Sherry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> On Wed, 14 Aug 2002, Bruce Momjian wrote:
>> I think this belongs on gborg.  Would you create a project there?

> A number of people at OSCON did consider this to be a nice contrib
> feature. Out of curiousity, what makes it more suitable for gborg?

I think Bruce is unhappy with the size of the tarball (220K!), and
I was too when I first saw it.  But it turns out that nearly all of
it is a copy of Hans' slides from his OSCON talk, which I don't think
is appropriate to include in contrib anyway.  (For one thing, not
everyone can read .sxi format.  I can't at the moment.)

I'd suggest dropping the talk slides (and you might as well flatten the
thing into one directory).  Perhaps instead the README could include a
pointer to where to find the talk slides on-line.  That'd bring it down
to half a dozen K which is a more appropriate size for a contrib item
(and hopefully will not trigger Marc's wrath ;-)).

regards, tom lane

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Re: [HACKERS] journaling in contrib ...

[Bruce Momjian]

/contrib is mostly porting tools and loadable modules.  We are actually
trying to trim down /contrib too, so I was afraid it wouldn't work.

If you want, post the code to patches and ask if it should be added to
/contrib.  I will do it if I can get agreement.

---

Gavin Sherry wrote:
> On Wed, 14 Aug 2002, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> 
> > 
> > I think this belongs on gborg.  Would you create a project there?
> 
> Bruce,
> 
> A number of people at OSCON did consider this to be a nice contrib
> feature. Out of curiousity, what makes it more suitable for gborg?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Gavin
> 
> 
> 

-- 
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Re: [HACKERS] journaling in contrib ...

[Gavin Sherry]

On Wed, 14 Aug 2002, Bruce Momjian wrote:

> 
> I think this belongs on gborg.  Would you create a project there?

Bruce,

A number of people at OSCON did consider this to be a nice contrib
feature. Out of curiousity, what makes it more suitable for gborg?

Thanks,

Gavin



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Re: [HACKERS] journaling in contrib ...

[Bruce Momjian]

I think this belongs on gborg.  Would you create a project there?

---

Hans-Jürgen Schönig wrote:
> 
> At my talk at the Oreilly Open Source Convention I have presented a 
> simple tool for journaling databases.
> Tom Lane has mentioned that this might be a good choice for putting it 
> into contrib.
> Is anybody interested in having it there?
> 
> I have attached a tar-ball containing some documentation and some code.
> 
> Best regards,
> Hans-J?rgen Sch?nig
> 
> 

[ application/x-gzip is not supported, skipping... ]

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