Re: [Pharo-dev] Switching to Pharo from Visualworks

[Serge Stinckwich]

On Thu, Feb 5, 2015 at 2:30 AM, Stephen Travis Pope <
step...@heaveneverywhere.com> wrote:

>
> Hello PharoDev,
>

Hi Stephen,


>
> I have a largish project (Siren) that I have developed in ST80/VisualWorks
> (since 1984) and ported to Squeak in the past.
>
> I'm allows looking for a cleaner free ST80 implementation to host the
> project.
>

I would love if Siren is ported to Pharo ;-)


>
> Looking at Pharo, it appears to me to be suffering the same bloat issues as
> Squeak.
>
> I have a few questions:
>
> Why don't you all use a 6-paned browser (called the package browser in
> Squeak) and control the introduction of top-level meta-categories? The
> top-level (packages or meta-catgories) should be a list of 20 or fewer
> topics such as Magnitudes, Collections, Graphics, Text, Compiler, Tools,
> etc. and each of these should have 20 or fewer categories within it. I
> ported the package browser to Squeak and reorganized their system once, but
> people continued to add top-level categories to make finding their code
> easier. I tried to add the facility to the Pharo browser a year or so ago,
> and gave up because I couldn't figure how out how to subclass and refine
> the
> existing browser framework (and the fact that it seems to be under
> construction).
>

There is no such tools in Pharo, but you can use the filter to see only the
package you want.

You may have a look to the AltBrowser of Thierry Goubier :
http://thierrygoubier.github.io/AltBrowser/
There is a hierarchical view like the one you want.
Normally you can load directement AltBrowser from Pharo 3.0/4.0: launch the
configuration browser and select AltBrowser.


>
> Why do you still use the (terrible, IMHO) Squeak graphics and UI packages
> (Morphic, Balloon, etc)? It appears that new mostly-redundant systems are
> still being added to replace these, right? Can't someone reimplement the
> VisualWorks "Wrapper" UI framework (or something like it) on top of OpenGL
> contexts as in VW? It's help up pretty well after over 25 years. (David
> Leibs and I toasted it just last December in Australia.)
>
>
If you want to build interface, you don't have to use Morphic, etc ...
You can use Spec : http://spec.st/


> How does a newbie learn what all the new packages are for? Glamour, Ring,
> AsmJit, Zinc, etc. are neat names, but if they're not part of higher-level
> packages it makes navigating the system (and even figuring out what they're
> for) pretty difficult.
>

Glamour is part of MOOSE image : http://www.moosetechnology.org/
This is a DSL to build browser

You may have a look to the ongoing books. There is some documentation about
all these framework:
https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/view/Books/


>
> Are there any benchmarks of the current VMs compared to VisualWorks? The
> last time I used Squeak (a few years ago) it was still pretty slow. I have
> a
> real-time event scheduler in Siren that I use to schedule MIDI, so I can
> run
> "drum roll" tests to see how the VM performs.
>
> Pharo and Squeak use basically the same VM.
When you use Squeak, this was the stack VM or the newer one called Cog ?

There will be a new VM called Spur with even more performances during the
year.


> How does Pharo handle user primitives or foreign function calls? Is anyone
> maintaining the old SWIG implementation of Smalltalk? I used it quite a bit
> to have Smalltalk code create and manage C++ signal processing graphs in
> the
> past. SWIG is still going strong, and it's embarrassing that there's no
> mention at all of Smalltalk on the SWIG pages.
>
>
There is many FFI engines at the moment. This problem was discussed during
last PharoDays and there will
be an action to have one unified FFI.


>
> I'm not trying to start a fight, and I really did like the initial Pharo
> mission statement of making a tighter, cleaner open-source ST80
> implementation. Is that dream still what motivates the community?
> If yes, where are the minimalists hiding?
>

There are still there, but it takes a lot of time to clean the
implementation.
One new statement of Pharo is to reinvent the UI also. There are some
ongoing experiments with the GT-Tools:
http://gt.moosetechnology.org/

Regards,
-- 
Serge Stinckwich
UCBN & UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC)
Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk
http://www.doesnotunderstand.org/

Re: [Pharo-dev] Switching to Pharo from Visualworks

[p...@highoctane.be]

Le 5 févr. 2015 02:30, "Stephen Travis Pope" 
a écrit :
>
>
> Hello PharoDev,
>
> I have a largish project (Siren) that I have developed in ST80/VisualWorks
> (since 1984) and ported to Squeak in the past.
>
> I'm allows looking for a cleaner free ST80 implementation to host the
> project.
>
> Looking at Pharo, it appears to me to be suffering the same bloat issues
as
> Squeak.
>
> I have a few questions:
>
> Why don't you all use a 6-paned browser (called the package browser in
> Squeak) and control the introduction of top-level meta-categories? The
> top-level (packages or meta-catgories) should be a list of 20 or fewer
> topics such as Magnitudes, Collections, Graphics, Text, Compiler, Tools,
> etc. and each of these should have 20 or fewer categories within it. I
> ported the package browser to Squeak and reorganized their system once,
but
> people continued to add top-level categories to make finding their code
> easier. I tried to add the facility to the Pharo browser a year or so ago,
> and gave up because I couldn't figure how out how to subclass and refine
the
> existing browser framework (and the fact that it seems to be under
> construction).
>
> Why do you still use the (terrible, IMHO) Squeak graphics and UI packages
> (Morphic, Balloon, etc)? It appears that new mostly-redundant systems are
> still being added to replace these, right? Can't someone reimplement the
> VisualWorks "Wrapper" UI framework (or something like it) on top of OpenGL
> contexts as in VW? It's help up pretty well after over 25 years. (David
> Leibs and I toasted it just last December in Australia.)
>
> How does a newbie learn what all the new packages are for? Glamour, Ring,
> AsmJit, Zinc, etc. are neat names, but if they're not part of higher-level
> packages it makes navigating the system (and even figuring out what
they're
> for) pretty difficult.
>
> Are there any benchmarks of the current VMs compared to VisualWorks? The
> last time I used Squeak (a few years ago) it was still pretty slow. I
have a
> real-time event scheduler in Siren that I use to schedule MIDI, so I can
run
> "drum roll" tests to see how the VM performs.
>
> How does Pharo handle user primitives or foreign function calls? Is anyone
> maintaining the old SWIG implementation of Smalltalk? I used it quite a
bit
> to have Smalltalk code create and manage C++ signal processing graphs in
the
> past. SWIG is still going strong, and it's embarrassing that there's no
> mention at all of Smalltalk on the SWIG pages.
>
>
> I'm not trying to start a fight, and I really did like the initial Pharo
> mission statement of making a tighter, cleaner open-source ST80
> implementation. Is that dream still what motivates the community?
> If yes, where are the minimalists hiding?

There aren't that many high level categories. Any trip to Java?

One can reduce the list with any regex in the box above the list and get
that reduced list. e.g. ^Kernel

There is a SWIG that supports Pharo. Check the Woden project as it used
SWIG to wrap OpenGL/OpenCL. The SWIG thing is in the rmGithub repo of the
Woden developer.

Read Deep into Pharo for explanations on some packages.

Also go to squarebaracketsassociates on github for books in progress etc.

Id you want to create browsers maybe your best bet is to go the GToolkit
route. Glamour is the framework supporting all of that.

Nautilus can feel a bit unfinished but that's one get when challenging the
status quo and learning how to go the the next level.

Graphics are supported by Athens which wraps Cairo. Look in there, there is
quite useful material.

OSWindow and libSDL bindings open the door to better/faster interactions.

I like Morphic and Balloon as they help me get how things are happening
under the hood.

FFI options experiences lots of attention at the moment.

FFI as in original FFI works.
Alien is there but kind of stale.
NativeBoost works on x86
uFFI is a bew thing.
One can also use the CCodeGenerator from inside the image. Need to load it
first.

BTW, I like your work and would love to see it working in Pharo.

HTH
Phil


>
> Stephen Pope
> HeavenEverywhere Media and FASTLabInc.com
> Santa Barbara, CA USA
>
> --
>
>   Stephen Travis Pope   Santa Barbara, California, USA
http://HeavenEverywhere.com
>
>

[Pharo-dev] ImageWorkerTest>>#testError is failing

[Juraj Kubelka]

Hi,

a validation report 

 says that ImageWorkerTest>>#testError is failing but I do not have that test 
in my Pharo image and I do not know how to download it? Where is it come from? 
How can I execute it in my image?

Thanks,
Juraj

[Pharo-dev] Switching to Pharo from Visualworks

[Stephen Travis Pope]

Hello PharoDev,

I have a largish project (Siren) that I have developed in ST80/VisualWorks
(since 1984) and ported to Squeak in the past.

I'm allows looking for a cleaner free ST80 implementation to host the
project.

Looking at Pharo, it appears to me to be suffering the same bloat issues as
Squeak. 

I have a few questions:

Why don't you all use a 6-paned browser (called the package browser in
Squeak) and control the introduction of top-level meta-categories? The
top-level (packages or meta-catgories) should be a list of 20 or fewer
topics such as Magnitudes, Collections, Graphics, Text, Compiler, Tools,
etc. and each of these should have 20 or fewer categories within it. I
ported the package browser to Squeak and reorganized their system once, but
people continued to add top-level categories to make finding their code
easier. I tried to add the facility to the Pharo browser a year or so ago,
and gave up because I couldn't figure how out how to subclass and refine the
existing browser framework (and the fact that it seems to be under
construction).

Why do you still use the (terrible, IMHO) Squeak graphics and UI packages
(Morphic, Balloon, etc)? It appears that new mostly-redundant systems are
still being added to replace these, right? Can't someone reimplement the
VisualWorks "Wrapper" UI framework (or something like it) on top of OpenGL
contexts as in VW? It's help up pretty well after over 25 years. (David
Leibs and I toasted it just last December in Australia.)

How does a newbie learn what all the new packages are for? Glamour, Ring,
AsmJit, Zinc, etc. are neat names, but if they're not part of higher-level
packages it makes navigating the system (and even figuring out what they're
for) pretty difficult.

Are there any benchmarks of the current VMs compared to VisualWorks? The
last time I used Squeak (a few years ago) it was still pretty slow. I have a
real-time event scheduler in Siren that I use to schedule MIDI, so I can run
"drum roll" tests to see how the VM performs.

How does Pharo handle user primitives or foreign function calls? Is anyone
maintaining the old SWIG implementation of Smalltalk? I used it quite a bit
to have Smalltalk code create and manage C++ signal processing graphs in the
past. SWIG is still going strong, and it's embarrassing that there's no
mention at all of Smalltalk on the SWIG pages.


I'm not trying to start a fight, and I really did like the initial Pharo
mission statement of making a tighter, cleaner open-source ST80
implementation. Is that dream still what motivates the community?
If yes, where are the minimalists hiding?

Stephen Pope
HeavenEverywhere Media and FASTLabInc.com
Santa Barbara, CA USA

--

  Stephen Travis Pope   Santa Barbara, California, USA
http://HeavenEverywhere.com  

Re: [Pharo-dev] How can I specify the bindings when evaluating an expression?

[Sean P. DeNigris]

Nicolai Hess wrote
> We lost this feature in 40097

Which feature? Using bare associations instead of WorkspaceVariables?



-
Cheers,
Sean
--
View this message in context: 
http://forum.world.st/How-can-I-specify-the-bindings-when-evaluating-an-expression-tp4794352p4803810.html
Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Re: [Pharo-dev] Real Selectors

[Hernán Morales Durand]

Yes, I defined it once, it's not difficult to implement. The protocol was
something like:

Symbol>>asUnarySelector
Symbol>>asBinarySelector
Symbol>>asKeywordSelector

Selector>>#suggestedSelectorFor: aString
Selector>>#precedence
Selector>>argumentsSize

I defined also compare protocol methods #unaryProtocol, #binaryProtocol,
#keywordProtocol.

And then I've tried to split global SymbolTable. My idea was to separate
symbols used for message sending, and those used for description (like when
you define a Symbol for a widget name).

But I should search it because it was time ago.

Cheers,

Hernán


2015-02-04 16:28 GMT-03:00 Sean P. DeNigris :

> As I sit here writing this case statement, I'm thinking "Man, it sure would
> be nice to have:
>   Selector
> UnarySelector
> BinarySelector
> KeywordSelector"
>
>
>
> -
> Cheers,
> Sean
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://forum.world.st/Real-Selectors-tp4803732.html
> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at
> Nabble.com.
>
>

Re: [Pharo-dev] How can I specify the bindings when evaluating an expression?

[Nicolai Hess]

2015-02-04 23:07 GMT+01:00 Sean P. DeNigris :

> Nicolai Hess wrote
> > Dictionary newFrom:{ WorkspaceVariable key:#a value:3.
> > WorkspaceVariable key:#b value:4}
>
> Thanks! That works great :)
>
> n.b. in Pharo 3.0, just replace the WorkspaceVariables with regular
> associations:
>   Smalltalk compiler evaluate:'a+b'
> notifying: (Dictionary newFrom: { #a -> 3. #b -> 4 })
> logged: nil
>

That's interesting. We lost this feature in 40097
(13584  Forward code
generation for Globals and Class Vars to meta object)




>
>
>
> -
> Cheers,
> Sean
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://forum.world.st/How-can-I-specify-the-bindings-when-evaluating-an-expression-tp4794352p4803777.html
> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at
> Nabble.com.
>
>

Re: [Pharo-dev] ||

[Richard Sargent]

Levente Uzonyi-2 wrote
> On Tue, 3 Feb 2015, Marcus Denker wrote:
> 
>>
>>   On 03 Feb 2015, at 09:17, Marcus Denker <

> marcus.denker@

> > wrote:
>> 
>>
>>   On 02 Feb 2015, at 21:47, Eliot Miranda <

> eliot.miranda@

> > wrote:
>> 
>> Hi All,
>>     code as in the double bars forming the end of block arguments and the
>> beginning of block temporaries in
>> 
>> 
>> This is fixed in Pharo4 (I think we did that in Pharo3 already):
>> 
>> I should search the issue in the issue tracker… it seems to be Pharo4, so
>> just 1296 closed issues to check there…
>> I will search for it.
>> 
>> Another question: In the code I saw. ReadOnlyVariableBinding. I removed
>> that in Pharo relatively early as it was not used:
>> half of the classes were stored that binding (old ones) all newer ones
>> where just associations.
>> The code to make a binding "read only" was never called.
>> 
>> Is this now used in Squeak? Is it worth the complexity?
> 
> Squeak doesn't use ReadOnlyVariableBinding anymore. The bindings of 
> classes are instances of the ClassBinding class.
> Without using separate class it's a bit cumbersome (and less OO) to decide 
> if an assignment to a global variable should be allowed or not. E.g.:
> 
>   Foo := 1.
> 
> should work if Foo is a global, but not a behavior. It should raise an 
> error if it's a behavior.

I have mixed feelings about that. In most Smalltalks one can write something
like the following and expect it to work.

| original |
original := SomeClass.
[SomeClass := SomeReplacementClass.
... some code involving SomeClass (typically a passed in Block) ...
] ensure: [SomeClass := original]

That is, the name of the thing is not the thing itself.

Of course, as long as one could write /Smalltalk at: #SomeClass put:
SomeReplacementClass/, it would still be possible to achieve the same
effect. (And of course, "Smalltalk" could be any namespace.)



> Levente
> 
>> 
>> Marcus
>> 
>>





--
View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/-tp4803298p4803783.html
Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Re: [Pharo-dev] How can I specify the bindings when evaluating an expression?

[Sean P. DeNigris]

Nicolai Hess wrote
> Dictionary newFrom:{ WorkspaceVariable key:#a value:3.
> WorkspaceVariable key:#b value:4}

Thanks! That works great :)

n.b. in Pharo 3.0, just replace the WorkspaceVariables with regular
associations:
  Smalltalk compiler evaluate:'a+b'
notifying: (Dictionary newFrom: { #a -> 3. #b -> 4 })
logged: nil



-
Cheers,
Sean
--
View this message in context: 
http://forum.world.st/How-can-I-specify-the-bindings-when-evaluating-an-expression-tp4794352p4803777.html
Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Re: [Pharo-dev] Installing Pharo on Ubuntu

[Damien Cassou]

Markus Fritsche writes:


Hi,

https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/job/PharoLauncherFinalUserImage/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/PharoLauncher.zip

as used in the script for the Pharo Launcher throws a 404 - 
what's the proper new address?


launcher: http://files.pharo.org/platform/launcher/blessed/
vm: http://files.pharo.org/vm/src/vm-unix-sources/blessed

Best

--
Damien Cassou http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another without 
losing enthusiasm." --Winston Churchill

Re: [Pharo-dev] How Stable is Pharo 4.0?

[Tudor Girba]

I am using it on a daily basis for implementing various analyses. I see no
downside to using it.

Doru

On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 3:21 PM, Sean P. DeNigris 
wrote:

> Is anyone successfully using it for everyday development on their own
> projects? How painless/ful is it? Thanks
>
>
>
> -
> Cheers,
> Sean
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://forum.world.st/How-Stable-is-Pharo-4-0-tp4803645.html
> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at
> Nabble.com.
>
>


-- 
www.tudorgirba.com

"Every thing has its own flow"

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo Seaside and Angular JS

[S Krish]

Updated to Gofer Scripts.. all dependencies self contained including
customJs / customCss...

Instructions updated in the same wordpress link:

https://skrishnamachari.wordpress.com/2015/02/04/angular-js-in-seaside/



On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 11:38 AM, S Krish 
wrote:

>
>
> A very initial attempt at getting Angular JS working.. Works out cool..
>
> 

>
> Has simple extension to Teapot to do asynch requests but toying with an
> event push based to make Seaside UI server work with a Teapot REST server
> in Aysnch mode to increase throughput.
>
> Could work with more than 200 requests in 175 ms with asynch calls where
> the synch calls took 5300+ms as calls queue up on the seaside ui server
>
> Can progress this to a scalable / flexible web framework with other
> components viz: logging, nls, mq ?saq2
>
>
>

[Pharo-dev] Real Selectors

[Sean P. DeNigris]

As I sit here writing this case statement, I'm thinking "Man, it sure would
be nice to have:
  Selector
UnarySelector
BinarySelector
KeywordSelector"



-
Cheers,
Sean
--
View this message in context: 
http://forum.world.st/Real-Selectors-tp4803732.html
Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Re: [Pharo-dev] Installing Pharo on Ubuntu

[Markus Fritsche]

Hi,

https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/job/PharoLauncherFinalUserImage/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/PharoLauncher.zip

as used in the script for the Pharo Launcher throws a 404 - what's the
proper new address?

Best regards,
  Markus

On 28.01.2015 21:22, Damien Cassou wrote:
>
> Le 27 janvier 2015 11:40:48 CET, Markus Fritsche  a 
> écrit :
>> On 2015-01-26 15:41, J.F. Rick wrote:
>>> I have a new computer and installed Ubuntu 14.10 on it. When I tried
>>> to install Pharo using the PPA instructions, it failed. I get the
>>> following message when executing "sudo apt-get update":
>>>
>>> W: Failed to fetch
>>>
>> http://ppa.launchpad.net/pharo/stable/ubuntu/dists/utopic/main/binary-amd64/Packages
>>> [1]  404  Not Found
>>> W: Failed to fetch
>>>
>> http://ppa.launchpad.net/pharo/stable/ubuntu/dists/utopic/main/binary-i386/Packages
>>> [2]  404  Not Found
>>> I was able to get Pharo running with the Zeroconf script, but I
>>> thought I'd report that the standard thing didn't work. Is it just
>>> that a binary doesn't yet exist for 14.10.
>> I'll check that this week, I guess I just have to update my build 
>> scripts to include utopic as a target.
>>
>> I thought I've been there and done that, but being on 14.04 myself, I 
>> didn't have the oppurtunity to check.
>>
> Markus, please update the stable repository and remove the unstable one
>
>

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Pharo-users] spotter preview

[Andrei Chis]

On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 6:46 PM, Norbert Hartl  wrote:

>
> Am 04.02.2015 um 13:54 schrieb Tudor Girba :
>
> Hi,
>
> Hmm. I cannot reproduce your problem. I do this:
> - Shift+Enter - Spotter is opened without preview
> - Cmd+P - preview is opened
> - Esc
> - Shift+Enter - Spotter is opened with preview
> - Cmd+P - preview is closed
> - Shift+Enter - Spotter is opened without preview
>
> Does this not work for you in this way?
>
> Hmm, now it works. Sorry for the confusion. Now I have another problem. I
> had it twice that an inspector that was minimized for some time declines to
> be edited. Let's see what I can figure out.
>

That's a bug. It will be fixed shortly.
https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/14863/


Andrei

>
> Norbert
>
> Doru
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 10:22 AM, Norbert Hartl  wrote:
>
>>
>> Am 03.02.2015 um 13:25 schrieb Marcus Denker :
>>
>>
>> On 02 Feb 2015, at 22:02, Tudor Girba  wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> The Glamorous Team is happy to present a new feature in Spotter: preview
>> (you toggle it with Cmd+p). We think this boosts the usefulness of the
>> Spotter interface significantly.
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>> Really cool. I updated my pharo4 to 474 and can see the preview. But once
>> switched on it seems to stay that way. Cmd+P does not remove the preview.
>> Closing and opening the spotter again shows the preview opened.
>>
>> Norbert
>>
>>
>> For more details, please take a look at:
>> http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/boosting-gtspotter-with-preview
>>
>> This is available in the Moose image, and it will soon be integrated in
>> the Pharo one.
>>
>>
>> This is now in Pharo4 update 473 (the latest one from today).
>>
>> Marcus
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> www.tudorgirba.com
>
> "Every thing has its own flow"
>
>
>

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Pharo-users] spotter preview

[Norbert Hartl]

> Am 04.02.2015 um 13:54 schrieb Tudor Girba :
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Hmm. I cannot reproduce your problem. I do this:
> - Shift+Enter - Spotter is opened without preview
> - Cmd+P - preview is opened
> - Esc
> - Shift+Enter - Spotter is opened with preview
> - Cmd+P - preview is closed
> - Shift+Enter - Spotter is opened without preview
> 
> Does this not work for you in this way?
> 
Hmm, now it works. Sorry for the confusion. Now I have another problem. I had 
it twice that an inspector that was minimized for some time declines to be 
edited. Let's see what I can figure out.

Norbert

> Doru
> 
> 
> On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 10:22 AM, Norbert Hartl  > wrote:
> 
>> Am 03.02.2015 um 13:25 schrieb Marcus Denker > >:
>> 
>> 
>>> On 02 Feb 2015, at 22:02, Tudor Girba >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> The Glamorous Team is happy to present a new feature in Spotter: preview 
>>> (you toggle it with Cmd+p). We think this boosts the usefulness of the 
>>> Spotter interface significantly.
>>> 
>>> 
> 
> Really cool. I updated my pharo4 to 474 and can see the preview. But once 
> switched on it seems to stay that way. Cmd+P does not remove the preview. 
> Closing and opening the spotter again shows the preview opened. 
> 
> Norbert
> 
>>> 
>>> For more details, please take a look at:
>>> http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/boosting-gtspotter-with-preview 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> This is available in the Moose image, and it will soon be integrated in the 
>>> Pharo one.
>>> 
>> 
>> This is now in Pharo4 update 473 (the latest one from today).
>> 
>>  Marcus
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> www.tudorgirba.com 
> 
> "Every thing has its own flow"

Re: [Pharo-dev] Empty Package Names

[Thierry Goubier]

2015-02-04 17:13 GMT+01:00 Sean P. DeNigris :

> Marcus Denker-4 wrote
> > Maybe we could have a general place for all these?
>
> _UnpackagedPackage?
>

Yes !

Esteban, this package is there for that reason, isn't it? Do we have the
special logic which makes it a fall-through for code created without
package for whatever reason?

Thierry


>
>
>
> -
> Cheers,
> Sean
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://forum.world.st/Empty-Package-Names-tp4803642p4803660.html
> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at
> Nabble.com.
>
>

[Pharo-dev] Parsing float difference between 2.0 and 3.0, was it on purpose?

[Mariano Martinez Peck]

Hi guys,

In Pharo 2.0, the expression "Number readFrom: '2.58500098e+04' "
would answer 25850.01 , but in Pharo 3.0 it answers: 2.58500097
 which is a kind of WTF to me.

Checking the differences it seems in Pharo 2.0 ExtendedNumberParser (used
from Number >> readFrom: )  implemented:

allowPlusSign
^true

However, in Pharo 3.0 it seems subclasses of NumberParser have been merged
directly in NumberParser class (and so Number >> readFrom: uses this class
now).

But.. (and this is the difference), NumberParser implements:

allowPlusSign
^false

So I wonder...was this on purpose or a side effect? Why would we want to
reject using + as part of the exponential notion??

So in my case now I must do an override to:

NumberParser >> allowPlusSignInExponent
^ true

Thoughts?


-- 
Mariano
http://marianopeck.wordpress.com

[Pharo-dev] Gofer loadStable weirdness

[Sean P. DeNigris]

In #30862 (can't test in 4.0 because no stable TWM version declared)...

Gofer it
smalltalkhubUser: 'Pharo' project: 'MetaRepoForPharo30';
configurationOf: 'TilingWindowManager';
loadStable.

gives the error: "Could not resolve: TWM [TWM-BernardoContreras.68]..."
But then the following DoIt on the Config downloaded above shows no such
package...

ConfigurationOfTilingWindowManager project stableVersion record
loadDirective linear load : 
linear load : 3.0.2 [ConfigurationOfTilingWindowManager]
load : TWM-Core-PhilippeBack.17
load : TWM-GUI-PhilippeBack.18
load : TWM-KeyMapping-LaurentLaffont.5
load : TWM-Tests-LaurentLaffont.5
load : TWM-Theme-PhilippeBack.5

And indeed "ConfigurationOfTilingWindowManager project stableVersion load"
succeeds.



-
Cheers,
Sean
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Re: [Pharo-dev] Empty Package Names

[Sean P. DeNigris]

Marcus Denker-4 wrote
> Maybe we could have a general place for all these?

_UnpackagedPackage?



-
Cheers,
Sean
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Re: [Pharo-dev] How Stable is Pharo 4.0?

[Norbert Hartl]

> Am 04.02.2015 um 15:21 schrieb Sean P. DeNigris :
> 
> Is anyone successfully using it for everyday development on their own
> projects? How painless/ful is it? Thanks
> 

I work now on a daily basis with it. The downside ist that some DNUs lead to 
infinite loops in somewhere around #stepToCallee. The upside is GT 
inspector/spotter. It really is a lot of fun to get used to it. Today I learned 
it is a good idea to close all GT windows before upgrading. :)
My experience so far is that I can kill pharo 4.0 much easier than pharo 3.0 
but the overall experience is good.

hope that helps,

Norbert

Re: [Pharo-dev] How Stable is Pharo 4.0?

[Marcus Denker]

> On 04 Feb 2015, at 15:21, Sean P. DeNigris  wrote:
> 
> Is anyone successfully using it for everyday development on their own
> projects? How painless/ful is it? Thanks
> 
Hard to say… the amount of new bugs reported is quite low.

Subjectively it feels stable to me, but than this is of course a result of
me using it and fixing/reviewing all those issues that annoy me.

Marcus

Re: [Pharo-dev] How Stable is Pharo 4.0?

[kilon alios]

Well I would not just call it painless more like a very big improvement
over Pharo 3. No strange bugs and abnormal behaviour so far , and I have
been using it for more than a year.

On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 4:21 PM, Sean P. DeNigris 
wrote:

> Is anyone successfully using it for everyday development on their own
> projects? How painless/ful is it? Thanks
>
>
>
> -
> Cheers,
> Sean
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://forum.world.st/How-Stable-is-Pharo-4-0-tp4803645.html
> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at
> Nabble.com.
>
>

Re: [Pharo-dev] Question on AioPlugin

[Thierry Goubier]

Dave, Esteban,

thanks for the update. I'll downgrade GitFileTree on the previous version
of OSProcess/CommandShell until the Aio plugin is available on the stable
download of the Pharo vm.

Thierry

2015-02-04 13:44 GMT+01:00 David T. Lewis :

> On Wed, Feb 04, 2015 at 07:18:03AM +0100, Thierry Goubier wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > anybody knows how to check if the AioPlugin is included in the current
> > stable Pharo vm(*)? OSProcess is complaining of a missing AioPlugin, and
> I
> > remember a thread where this was solved by integrating it in the vm
> build.
>
> Hi Thierry,
>
> Evaluate "AioEventHandler aioPluginPresent" to check if the plugin is
> present.
>
> Dave
>
>
>

Re: [Pharo-dev] '/is/this/possible?' asFileReference size

[Roberto Minelli]

“Design”?

> On 04 Feb 2015, at 15:18, Sean P. DeNigris  wrote:
> 
> Roberto Minelli-3 wrote
>> I just discovered that if you ask #size to a non-eistent file reference
>> you obtain False.
> 
> That was a design decision to make people feel more comfortable coming from
> C++... 0 = False ;)
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Cheers,
> Sean
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://forum.world.st/is-this-possible-asFileReference-size-tp4803635p4803643.html
> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> 

[Pharo-dev] How Stable is Pharo 4.0?

[Sean P. DeNigris]

Is anyone successfully using it for everyday development on their own
projects? How painless/ful is it? Thanks



-
Cheers,
Sean
--
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Re: [Pharo-dev] Empty Package Names

[Marcus Denker]

> On 04 Feb 2015, at 15:14, Sean P. DeNigris  wrote:
> 
> I noticed that in 4.0 one gets a (resume-able) exception when trying to
> define a class in category ''. Why? Is it true, as the error message states,
> that "the Category should not be empty"? One of our key principles inherited
> from Smalltalk is to treat the programmer like they know what they're doing.
> Although only a minor annoyance in this case,  I often create classes in
> empty categories specifically because they are throwaways - like a temp
> directory, and was a bit confused by the debugger popping up, especially
> before I realized that the exception was resume-able...
> 
> Also, that made me think about something else... What if the debugger
> somehow made it immediately obvious whether the exception was resume-able?
> That could be useful in cases like these to make the user's options clearer.
> 

We could solve that together with this:

https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/14097/generated-code-non-existing-package-has-uncommited-code
 


if you generate code via meta programming, the resulting methods now have to be 
in a package.
Which is not good, as it will be dirty.

Maybe we could have a general place for all these?

Marcus

Re: [Pharo-dev] '/is/this/possible?' asFileReference size

[Sean P. DeNigris]

Roberto Minelli-3 wrote
> I just discovered that if you ask #size to a non-eistent file reference
> you obtain False.

That was a design decision to make people feel more comfortable coming from
C++... 0 = False ;)



-
Cheers,
Sean
--
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[Pharo-dev] Empty Package Names

[Sean P. DeNigris]

I noticed that in 4.0 one gets a (resume-able) exception when trying to
define a class in category ''. Why? Is it true, as the error message states,
that "the Category should not be empty"? One of our key principles inherited
from Smalltalk is to treat the programmer like they know what they're doing.
Although only a minor annoyance in this case,  I often create classes in
empty categories specifically because they are throwaways - like a temp
directory, and was a bit confused by the debugger popping up, especially
before I realized that the exception was resume-able...

Also, that made me think about something else... What if the debugger
somehow made it immediately obvious whether the exception was resume-able?
That could be useful in cases like these to make the user's options clearer.



-
Cheers,
Sean
--
View this message in context: 
http://forum.world.st/Empty-Package-Names-tp4803642.html
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Re: [Pharo-dev] Who are the experts?

[Roberto Minelli]

Sorry for the late reply, Stef.

Cool that you cleaned AbstractTool and about the second part of my email.. I 
was indeed wrong!

Cheers,
R

> On 31 Jan 2015, at 20:39, stepharo  wrote:
> 
> 
> Le 27/1/15 13:21, Roberto Minelli a écrit :
>> ### NautilusRefactoring
>> - How does it work? Why there are different methods to remove a class, for 
>> example? e.g., NautilusRefactoring>>#removeClasses: vs. 
>> AbstractTool>>#removeClasses:
> I looked at it and clean it a bit.
> Now AbstractTool is common to all the tools.
> NautilusRefactoring introduces refactoring at the level of nautilus hence 
> redefines the methods.
> 
> 
>> - Why #removeClasses: is triggered before the actual removal (i.e., 
>> confirmation dialogue)?
> 
> where?
> because this is not what I see.
> I renamed private... by classRemoval.
> 
> removeClasses: aCollection
>"Execute the refactoring of the receiver."
> 
>| refactoring |
>refactoring := self classRemovalRefactoringObjectFor: aCollection.
>refactoring model environment: self model browsedEnvironment.
>self performRefactoring: refactoring.
>^ true
> 

[Pharo-dev] '/is/this/possible?' asFileReference size

[Roberto Minelli]

Hi,

I just discovered that if you ask #size to a non-eistent file reference you 
obtain False.

I submitted an issue @ 
https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/14862/is-this-possible-asFileReference-size

Cheers,
Roby

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Pharo-users] spotter preview

[Tudor Girba]

Hi,

Hmm. I cannot reproduce your problem. I do this:
- Shift+Enter - Spotter is opened without preview
- Cmd+P - preview is opened
- Esc
- Shift+Enter - Spotter is opened with preview
- Cmd+P - preview is closed
- Shift+Enter - Spotter is opened without preview

Does this not work for you in this way?

Doru


On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 10:22 AM, Norbert Hartl  wrote:

>
> Am 03.02.2015 um 13:25 schrieb Marcus Denker :
>
>
> On 02 Feb 2015, at 22:02, Tudor Girba  wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> The Glamorous Team is happy to present a new feature in Spotter: preview
> (you toggle it with Cmd+p). We think this boosts the usefulness of the
> Spotter interface significantly.
>
> 
>
>
> Really cool. I updated my pharo4 to 474 and can see the preview. But once
> switched on it seems to stay that way. Cmd+P does not remove the preview.
> Closing and opening the spotter again shows the preview opened.
>
> Norbert
>
>
> For more details, please take a look at:
> http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/boosting-gtspotter-with-preview
>
> This is available in the Moose image, and it will soon be integrated in
> the Pharo one.
>
>
> This is now in Pharo4 update 473 (the latest one from today).
>
> Marcus
>
>
>


-- 
www.tudorgirba.com

"Every thing has its own flow"

Re: [Pharo-dev] Question on AioPlugin

[David T. Lewis]

On Wed, Feb 04, 2015 at 07:18:03AM +0100, Thierry Goubier wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> anybody knows how to check if the AioPlugin is included in the current
> stable Pharo vm(*)? OSProcess is complaining of a missing AioPlugin, and I
> remember a thread where this was solved by integrating it in the vm build.

Hi Thierry,

Evaluate "AioEventHandler aioPluginPresent" to check if the plugin is present.

Dave

Re: [Pharo-dev] Anonymous classes should be browseable

[stepharo]

I will reply to this by private e-mail.

There are many aspects of Nautilus that I do not like but there
are even more aspect about the old browser
and OB that I hate! And as you know doing is difficult.


You know I wrote several OB browsers so I know OB had problems.
OB was not *that* bad. The old browser was.
But I just spent too much energy on OB.

:)


What do we do with class side? packages?

Why do you expect that a tools supporting the Smalltalk metaclass
model should suport Anonymous classes?


Because tools should be flexible enough to support other similar 
artifacts (like anonymous classes) at least without too much 
modification. How we can evolve if tools are not adaptable?
now classes belongs to a package so the class browser assume that your 
class must belong to a package.



BTW I'm the guy in Squeak that fixed long long long time ago
Behavior new new (So I know a bit on anonymous classes).
When I used anonymous classes
I did it to support instance based programming. So should I expect
my hack to work with normal browser?


When I think about halting SystemWindow>>delete automatically I miss 
the instance-based behavior.

I do not consider it a hack.

Now Glamour could be a solution? It would support building tools for 
all the other experiments (MethodWrappers, Ghosts, Multi-Methods, Wide 
Classes, etc)?

May be. :)

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Pharo-users] spotter preview

[Norbert Hartl]

> Am 03.02.2015 um 13:25 schrieb Marcus Denker :
> 
> 
>> On 02 Feb 2015, at 22:02, Tudor Girba > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> The Glamorous Team is happy to present a new feature in Spotter: preview 
>> (you toggle it with Cmd+p). We think this boosts the usefulness of the 
>> Spotter interface significantly.
>> 
>> 

Really cool. I updated my pharo4 to 474 and can see the preview. But once 
switched on it seems to stay that way. Cmd+P does not remove the preview. 
Closing and opening the spotter again shows the preview opened. 

Norbert

>> 
>> For more details, please take a look at:
>> http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/boosting-gtspotter-with-preview 
>> 
>> 
>> This is available in the Moose image, and it will soon be integrated in the 
>> Pharo one.
>> 
> 
> This is now in Pharo4 update 473 (the latest one from today).
> 
>   Marcus
> 

[Pharo-dev] [pharo-project/pharo-core] 683f71: 40474

[GitHub]

  Branch: refs/heads/4.0
  Home:   https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core
  Commit: 683f718e712f9be993eecc36228e27de2acd03b7
  
https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core/commit/683f718e712f9be993eecc36228e27de2acd03b7
  Author: Jenkins Build Server 
  Date:   2015-02-04 (Wed, 04 Feb 2015)

  Changed paths:
A ScriptLoader40.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/pharo - 
scripts/script474.st
A ScriptLoader40.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/pharo - 
updates/update40474.st
M 
ScriptLoader40.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/public/commentForCurrentUpdate.st
M 
System-Caching.package/LRUCache.class/instance/accessing/at_ifAbsentPut_.st
M 
System-Caching.package/LRUCache.class/instance/private/validateInvariantWith_.st
M 
System-Caching.package/TTLCache.class/instance/accessing/at_ifAbsentPut_.st
A 
System-CachingTests.package/LRUCacheTests.class/instance/testing/testAdditionInIfAbsentPut.st
A 
System-CachingTests.package/TTLCacheTests.class/class/testing/shouldInheritSelectors.st
M 
Text-Edition.package/FindReplaceService.class/instance/accessing/convertedFindString.st

  Log Message:
  ---
  40474
14491 inconsistent state LRUCache if ifAbsentPut: block modifies the cache
https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/14491

14857 Replacing occurrences of abc {1} xyz with foo {1} bar in browser doesnt 
work
https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/14857

http://files.pharo.org/image/40/40474.zip

[Pharo-dev] [pharo-project/pharo-core]

[GitHub]

  Branch: refs/tags/40474
  Home:   https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core

Re: [Pharo-dev] why smalltalk is the best system to support object-oriented thinking :)

[Sven Van Caekenberghe]

Nice.

> On 03 Feb 2015, at 21:15, stepharo  wrote:
> 
> Here is the presentation I did at Brescia
> 
> http://www.slideshare.net/pharoproject/the-best-system-for-objectoriented-thinking
> 
> 
>