[Pharo-dev] Bloc Feedback

[Sean P. DeNigris]

Highlights:

- BlCornerRadii - 1st class corners - yay to the death of cryptic arrays for
this kind of thing :)

Questions:

- How would one do e.g. a ticking clock in Bloc? The only possibly relevant
example I see is BlAnimatedCursor. Is that a typical usage? One thing that
I'm not sure how to translate to a BlElement is that the cursor seems to be
responsible for starting and stopping the animation via #activateOn:, which
doesn't exist for an element. How would one prevent an element's animation
from continuing to run after a space was closed?
- BlElement has 278 instance-side methods. A frequent battle cry against
Morphic was the bloated Morph class with 899. Definitely an improvement, but
are we "there yet"?
- Does Bloc implement its own keybinding outside of "Keymapping" e.g.
BlShortcut? If so, why? Will it ultimately be a replacement?
- In BlTextEditElement class>>#exampleText, text construction seems awfully
complex (`text := BrRopedText rope: (BrCollectionRope collection: (String
loremIpsum: 30)). text attributes: { BrFontWeightAttribute bold }.`. How
does that way contrast to e.g. `'X' asRopedText`?

Problems:

BlBasicExamples
- #exampleShapes, select the yellow shape with red border -> inspector ->
Transformations Tab -> Click on Composition -> "ShouldNotImplement:
#multiplyOn: should not have been implemented in BlCompositeTransformation"
- #exampleImageBackground -> "ShouldBeImplemented: #fillPath:withForm:
should have been implemented in SpartaCairoFillPainter"
BlTextEditElement class>>#exampleText
- insert some characters and then press [delete] -> "Error: Illegal
sub-sequence end index: 44"
- There is aBlSelectionHandler, but I can't seem to select any of the
text
BrAttributeRopeExamples#>>simpleRope -> inspect return value -> In
inspector, click on "Children" tab -> "Error: Improper store into indexable
object"
- In BlLinearLayoutExamples class>>#exampleVerticalLeftCenterRightRTL,
- the red sub-element does `c linear horizontal alignLeft`, which is
then overridden by its parent's `BlLinearLayout vertical "rightToLeft"`. Was
it intentional to show the precedence because I found it confusing when an
element that sent #alignLeft showed up on the right!
- the yellow sub-element does not appear at all. Maybe it should do a `c
vertical exact: 100.` like its siblings?
- All BlAnimationExamples lead to deprecation warnings and DNU's, but *do
not even attempt* #exampleBallsAnim or face endlessly multplying debugger
windows!



-
Cheers,
Sean
--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Developers-f1294837.html

Re: [Pharo-dev] Bloc Feedback

[Aliaksei Syrel]

Hi Sean,

Thanks for the feedback :)
I will take a look and come up with an answer in a few days.

If you have time to play more or if you found other issues, please feel
free to list them here or open bug reports on Github (
https://github.com/pharo-graphics/Bloc/issues)

Cheers,
Alex

On 23 October 2017 at 04:15, Sean P. DeNigris  wrote:

> Highlights:
>
> - BlCornerRadii - 1st class corners - yay to the death of cryptic arrays
> for
> this kind of thing :)
>
> Questions:
>
> - How would one do e.g. a ticking clock in Bloc? The only possibly relevant
> example I see is BlAnimatedCursor. Is that a typical usage? One thing that
> I'm not sure how to translate to a BlElement is that the cursor seems to be
> responsible for starting and stopping the animation via #activateOn:, which
> doesn't exist for an element. How would one prevent an element's animation
> from continuing to run after a space was closed?
> - BlElement has 278 instance-side methods. A frequent battle cry against
> Morphic was the bloated Morph class with 899. Definitely an improvement,
> but
> are we "there yet"?
> - Does Bloc implement its own keybinding outside of "Keymapping" e.g.
> BlShortcut? If so, why? Will it ultimately be a replacement?
> - In BlTextEditElement class>>#exampleText, text construction seems awfully
> complex (`text := BrRopedText rope: (BrCollectionRope collection: (String
> loremIpsum: 30)). text attributes: { BrFontWeightAttribute bold }.`. How
> does that way contrast to e.g. `'X' asRopedText`?
>
> Problems:
>
> BlBasicExamples
> - #exampleShapes, select the yellow shape with red border -> inspector ->
> Transformations Tab -> Click on Composition -> "ShouldNotImplement:
> #multiplyOn: should not have been implemented in BlCompositeTransformation"
> - #exampleImageBackground -> "ShouldBeImplemented: #fillPath:withForm:
> should have been implemented in SpartaCairoFillPainter"
> BlTextEditElement class>>#exampleText
> - insert some characters and then press [delete] -> "Error: Illegal
> sub-sequence end index: 44"
> - There is aBlSelectionHandler, but I can't seem to select any of the
> text
> BrAttributeRopeExamples#>>simpleRope -> inspect return value -> In
> inspector, click on "Children" tab -> "Error: Improper store into indexable
> object"
> - In BlLinearLayoutExamples class>>#exampleVerticalLeftCenterRightRTL,
> - the red sub-element does `c linear horizontal alignLeft`, which is
> then overridden by its parent's `BlLinearLayout vertical "rightToLeft"`.
> Was
> it intentional to show the precedence because I found it confusing when an
> element that sent #alignLeft showed up on the right!
> - the yellow sub-element does not appear at all. Maybe it should do a
> `c
> vertical exact: 100.` like its siblings?
> - All BlAnimationExamples lead to deprecation warnings and DNU's, but *do
> not even attempt* #exampleBallsAnim or face endlessly multplying debugger
> windows!
>
>
>
> -
> Cheers,
> Sean
> --
> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Developers-f1294837.html
>
>

Re: [Pharo-dev] Bloc Feedback

[Tudor Girba]

Thanks for the feedback!

Alex will reply in more details on Wednesday.

In the meantime, some comments inline.

> On Oct 23, 2017, at 4:15 AM, Sean P. DeNigris  wrote:
> 
> Highlights:
> 
> - BlCornerRadii - 1st class corners - yay to the death of cryptic arrays for
> this kind of thing :)
> 
> Questions:
> 
> - How would one do e.g. a ticking clock in Bloc? The only possibly relevant
> example I see is BlAnimatedCursor. Is that a typical usage? One thing that
> I'm not sure how to translate to a BlElement is that the cursor seems to be
> responsible for starting and stopping the animation via #activateOn:, which
> doesn't exist for an element. How would one prevent an element's animation
> from continuing to run after a space was closed?
> - BlElement has 278 instance-side methods. A frequent battle cry against
> Morphic was the bloated Morph class with 899. Definitely an improvement, but
> are we "there yet”?

What do you mean?

> - Does Bloc implement its own keybinding outside of "Keymapping" e.g.
> BlShortcut? If so, why? Will it ultimately be a replacement?

We wanted the simplest mechanism that we could find to start with. To this end, 
BlShortcut is simpler than Keymapping in that it does not include global 
shortcuts, and categories. In Bloc, we only have shortcut bubbling from the 
leaf element to the root, and all shortcuts are instance-based.


> - In BlTextEditElement class>>#exampleText, text construction seems awfully
> complex (`text := BrRopedText rope: (BrCollectionRope collection: (String
> loremIpsum: 30)). text attributes: { BrFontWeightAttribute bold }.`. How
> does that way contrast to e.g. `'X' asRopedText`?

Both are valid. The example means to show the most detailed way to construct 
the text object.


> Problems:
> 
> BlBasicExamples
> - #exampleShapes, select the yellow shape with red border -> inspector ->
> Transformations Tab -> Click on Composition -> "ShouldNotImplement:
> #multiplyOn: should not have been implemented in BlCompositeTransformation"
> - #exampleImageBackground -> "ShouldBeImplemented: #fillPath:withForm:
> should have been implemented in SpartaCairoFillPainter"
> BlTextEditElement class>>#exampleText
>- insert some characters and then press [delete] -> "Error: Illegal
> sub-sequence end index: 44"
>- There is aBlSelectionHandler, but I can't seem to select any of the
> text
> BrAttributeRopeExamples#>>simpleRope -> inspect return value -> In
> inspector, click on "Children" tab -> "Error: Improper store into indexable
> object"
> - In BlLinearLayoutExamples class>>#exampleVerticalLeftCenterRightRTL,
>- the red sub-element does `c linear horizontal alignLeft`, which is
> then overridden by its parent's `BlLinearLayout vertical "rightToLeft"`. Was
> it intentional to show the precedence because I found it confusing when an
> element that sent #alignLeft showed up on the right!
>- the yellow sub-element does not appear at all. Maybe it should do a `c
> vertical exact: 100.` like its siblings?
> - All BlAnimationExamples lead to deprecation warnings and DNU's, but *do
> not even attempt* #exampleBallsAnim or face endlessly multplying debugger
> windows!

I will let Alex answer to these ones :)

Doru

> 
> -
> Cheers,
> Sean
> --
> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Developers-f1294837.html
> 

--
www.tudorgirba.com
www.feenk.com

"Some battles are better lost than fought."

Re: [Pharo-dev] Bloc Feedback

[Sean P. DeNigris]

Tudor Girba-2 wrote
> Thanks for the feedback!

But of course! Thanks for pushing Bloc :) IMHO a clean low-level graphics
framework is the linchpin to unleash a tremendous amount of creativity in
the Pharo community. I have several dream projects that I placed on
long-term hold after getting stuck in Morphic quicksand :/


Tudor Girba-2 wrote
>> - How would one do e.g. a ticking clock in Bloc? The only possibly
>> relevant
>> example I see is BlAnimatedCursor. Is that a typical usage? One thing
>> that
>> I'm not sure how to translate to a BlElement is that the cursor seems to
>> be
>> responsible for starting and stopping the animation via #activateOn:,
>> which
>> doesn't exist for an element. How would one prevent an element's
>> animation
>> from continuing to run after a space was closed?
> What do you mean?

I guess I mean what is the Bloc version of #step that would enable us to do
e.g. Squeak's mouse-eyes-tracking-the-cursor or Lively Kernel's clock:
 


Tudor Girba-2 wrote
>> - BlElement has 278 instance-side methods. A frequent battle cry against
>> Morphic was the bloated Morph class with 899. Definitely an improvement,
>> but
>> are we "there yet”?
> What do you mean?

Is there a consensus on a maximum number of instance-side methods before a
class becomes impossible to understand, and if so where does BlElement fall
on that scale?



-
Cheers,
Sean
--
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Re: [Pharo-dev] Bloc Feedback

[Nicolai Hess]

2017-10-24 2:04 GMT+02:00 Sean P. DeNigris :

> Tudor Girba-2 wrote
> > Thanks for the feedback!
>
> But of course! Thanks for pushing Bloc :) IMHO a clean low-level graphics
> framework is the linchpin to unleash a tremendous amount of creativity in
> the Pharo community. I have several dream projects that I placed on
> long-term hold after getting stuck in Morphic quicksand :/
>
>
> Tudor Girba-2 wrote
> >> - How would one do e.g. a ticking clock in Bloc? The only possibly
> >> relevant
> >> example I see is BlAnimatedCursor. Is that a typical usage? One thing
> >> that
> >> I'm not sure how to translate to a BlElement is that the cursor seems to
> >> be
> >> responsible for starting and stopping the animation via #activateOn:,
> >> which
> >> doesn't exist for an element. How would one prevent an element's
> >> animation
> >> from continuing to run after a space was closed?
> > What do you mean?
>
> I guess I mean what is the Bloc version of #step that would enable us to do
> e.g. Squeak's mouse-eyes-tracking-the-cursor or Lively Kernel's clock:
> 
>
>
> Tudor Girba-2 wrote
> >> - BlElement has 278 instance-side methods. A frequent battle cry against
> >> Morphic was the bloated Morph class with 899. Definitely an improvement,
> >> but
> >> are we "there yet”?
> > What do you mean?
>
> Is there a consensus on a maximum number of instance-side methods before a
> class becomes impossible to understand, and if so where does BlElement fall
> on that scale?
>
>
>

I dont think this number alone is a problem. As long as the
"responsibility" of this
class is well structured.
A problem with the Morph class is, that it acts as many things at once.
A structured container, a model, a view, a graphical object, a widget base
...

About BlElement, I am more afraid about the number of instance variables


>
> -
> Cheers,
> Sean
> --
> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Developers-f1294837.html
>
>

Re: [Pharo-dev] Bloc Feedback

[Tudor Girba]

Hi,

Indeed, instance variables is what we are mainly concerned with as well. We 
keep on trimming, but it still feels like too many variables.

Cheers,
Doru


> On Oct 24, 2017, at 8:59 AM, Nicolai Hess  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 2017-10-24 2:04 GMT+02:00 Sean P. DeNigris :
> Tudor Girba-2 wrote
> > Thanks for the feedback!
> 
> But of course! Thanks for pushing Bloc :) IMHO a clean low-level graphics
> framework is the linchpin to unleash a tremendous amount of creativity in
> the Pharo community. I have several dream projects that I placed on
> long-term hold after getting stuck in Morphic quicksand :/
> 
> 
> Tudor Girba-2 wrote
> >> - How would one do e.g. a ticking clock in Bloc? The only possibly
> >> relevant
> >> example I see is BlAnimatedCursor. Is that a typical usage? One thing
> >> that
> >> I'm not sure how to translate to a BlElement is that the cursor seems to
> >> be
> >> responsible for starting and stopping the animation via #activateOn:,
> >> which
> >> doesn't exist for an element. How would one prevent an element's
> >> animation
> >> from continuing to run after a space was closed?
> > What do you mean?
> 
> I guess I mean what is the Bloc version of #step that would enable us to do
> e.g. Squeak's mouse-eyes-tracking-the-cursor or Lively Kernel's clock:
> 
> 
> 
> Tudor Girba-2 wrote
> >> - BlElement has 278 instance-side methods. A frequent battle cry against
> >> Morphic was the bloated Morph class with 899. Definitely an improvement,
> >> but
> >> are we "there yet”?
> > What do you mean?
> 
> Is there a consensus on a maximum number of instance-side methods before a
> class becomes impossible to understand, and if so where does BlElement fall
> on that scale?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I dont think this number alone is a problem. As long as the "responsibility" 
> of this 
> class is well structured. 
> A problem with the Morph class is, that it acts as many things at once.
> A structured container, a model, a view, a graphical object, a widget base ...
> 
> About BlElement, I am more afraid about the number of instance variables
>  
> 
> -
> Cheers,
> Sean
> --
> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Developers-f1294837.html

--
www.tudorgirba.com
www.feenk.com

"Sometimes the best solution is not the best solution."

Re: [Pharo-dev] Bloc Feedback

[Sean P. DeNigris]

Aliaksei Syrel wrote
> I don't understand how you guys find these kind of bugs :D

We have a talent for destruction ;)


Aliaksei Syrel wrote
> Aha, I forgot about it, thanks! At this point BlTextEditElement is only
> used internally by Moldable Editor so I will probably move it away from
> Bloc.

Ah, okay. IHMO at least a basic editable text morph (and ideally a real
editor morph as well) is essential to people starting to
play/experiment/test Bloc for real.


Aliaksei Syrel wrote
> Thanks for the feedback :)

Sure! Any thoughts on this:
> How would one do e.g. a ticking clock in Bloc? The only possibly relevant
> example I see is BlAnimatedCursor. Is that a typical usage? One thing that
> I'm not sure how to translate to a BlElement is that the cursor seems to
> be
> responsible for starting and stopping the animation via #activateOn:,
> which
> doesn't exist for an element. How would one prevent an element's animation
> from continuing to run after a space was closed?… I guess I mean what is
> the 
> Bloc version of #step that would enable us to do e.g. Squeak's 
> mouse-eyes-tracking-the-cursor or Lively Kernel's clock:
>  




-
Cheers,
Sean
--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Developers-f1294837.html

Re: [Pharo-dev] Bloc Feedback

[Tudor Girba]

Hi Sean,

> On Oct 25, 2017, at 2:14 PM, Sean P. DeNigris  wrote:
> 
> Aliaksei Syrel wrote
>> I don't understand how you guys find these kind of bugs :D
> 
> We have a talent for destruction ;)
> 
> 
> Aliaksei Syrel wrote
>> Aha, I forgot about it, thanks! At this point BlTextEditElement is only
>> used internally by Moldable Editor so I will probably move it away from
>> Bloc.
> 
> Ah, okay. IHMO at least a basic editable text morph (and ideally a real
> editor morph as well) is essential to people starting to
> play/experiment/test Bloc for real.

I think there is a misunderstanding.

We distinguish between Bloc and Brick:
- Bloc offers the basic management of graphical elements (including layouts, 
measurements, transformation etc)
- Brick offers widgets

In Bloc, there exists a basic text widget, but the full fledged moldable editor 
is part of Brick.

While it is important to have Bloc as a generic infrastructure, coming from 
Morphic you just can look at Bloc and Brick as being one.

Doru

> Aliaksei Syrel wrote
>> Thanks for the feedback :)
> 
> Sure! Any thoughts on this:
>> How would one do e.g. a ticking clock in Bloc? The only possibly relevant
>> example I see is BlAnimatedCursor. Is that a typical usage? One thing that
>> I'm not sure how to translate to a BlElement is that the cursor seems to
>> be
>> responsible for starting and stopping the animation via #activateOn:,
>> which
>> doesn't exist for an element. How would one prevent an element's animation
>> from continuing to run after a space was closed?… I guess I mean what is
>> the 
>> Bloc version of #step that would enable us to do e.g. Squeak's 
>> mouse-eyes-tracking-the-cursor or Lively Kernel's clock:
>>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Cheers,
> Sean
> --
> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Developers-f1294837.html
> 

--
www.tudorgirba.com
www.feenk.com

"Being happy is a matter of choice."

Re: [Pharo-dev] Bloc Feedback

[Sean P. DeNigris]

Bump :)


Sean P. DeNigris wrote
>> How would one do e.g. a ticking clock in Bloc? The only possibly relevant
>> example I see is BlAnimatedCursor. Is that a typical usage? One thing
>> that
>> I'm not sure how to translate to a BlElement is that the cursor seems to
>> be
>> responsible for starting and stopping the animation via #activateOn:,
>> which
>> doesn't exist for an element. How would one prevent an element's
>> animation
>> from continuing to run after a space was closed?… I guess I mean what is
>> the 
>> Bloc version of #step that would enable us to do e.g. Squeak's 
>> mouse-eyes-tracking-the-cursor or Lively Kernel's clock:
>> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5e/Chromium5.0.375.99_showing_lively_kernel_using_gtk%2B_theme.png





-
Cheers,
Sean
--
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Re: [Pharo-dev] Bloc Feedback

[Sean P. DeNigris]

Aliaksei Syrel wrote
> Stepping mechanism can be implemented using infinite animation (stepping
> is
> nothing else than a special case of animation).

Okay, cool. So one would change the `loop: 1` in your example to
`beInfinite`? Why didn't you do that in the example? Also, what is the
lifetime of an infinite animation?



-
Cheers,
Sean
--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Developers-f1294837.html

Re: [Pharo-dev] Bloc Feedback

[Aliaksei Syrel]

>
> So one would change the `loop: 1` in your example to `beInfinite`? Why
> didn't you do that in the example?


Because I wanted it to work just one minute :) I don't know, there is no
explanation for that.

 Also, what is the lifetime of an infinite animation?


It can only be stopped by sending #stop to it. It is infinite after all.
Please note, that animation target is not necessary a visual element, so we
can not stop animation when element is removed from the scene graph. It
also means that animations are not bound to any specific space, that is why
we must not stop animation when space is closed.
Infinite animations are not used yet, so we can still find some smart
heuristics for stopping.

Do you have any particular use-case for animations?

Cheers,
Alex

On 26 November 2017 at 05:23, Sean P. DeNigris 
wrote:

> Aliaksei Syrel wrote
> > Stepping mechanism can be implemented using infinite animation (stepping
> > is
> > nothing else than a special case of animation).
>
> Okay, cool. So one would change the `loop: 1` in your example to
> `beInfinite`? Why didn't you do that in the example? Also, what is the
> lifetime of an infinite animation?
>
>
>
> -
> Cheers,
> Sean
> --
> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Developers-f1294837.html
>
>

Re: [Pharo-dev] Bloc Feedback

[Aliaksei Syrel]

Here is how I see the behaviour of an infinite animation:

 - stop it when element is removed from the space
 - resume it when element is re-added to the space

It means that some object should store that animation (an element?).
What if element is not going to be re-added to the space? Should animation
reference it target in a weak manner and remove itself when target is
garbage collected? However, we also have target-less animations...

There are too many possibilities, that is why I think it should be up to
the user of infinite animation how to manage its lifecycle. We could create
a factory of pre-configured infinite animations for most common lifecycles.

Cheers,
Alex

Re: [Pharo-dev] Bloc Feedback

[Sean P. DeNigris]

Aliaksei Syrel wrote
> Do you have any particular use-case for animations?

Just starting to port Morphs to Bloc, so looking for a natural replacement
for #step, but maybe I'm missing a paradigm shift?

Also, playing with the examples, more feedback:

>From the Bloc Example browser:
- running an example via the context menu shortcut resets the list selection
and scrolling starts from the first item
- running an example via the context menu via the mouse resets the list
scroll to the beginning
- colorsDataSource does not seem to return a graphical item; same with
classesDataSource

- BlBasicExamples>>imageBackground -> "Instance of MozPath did not
understand #bounds"
- example_10800El10x10_inWin1200x900_mouseMove50ms -> "Instance of Duration
did not understand #adaptToNumber:andSend:"
- example_21846nestedEl_in800x800_mouseMove50ms -> "BlElement>>#position:
called from BlBenchmark class>>#createSquareAnd4SubSquaresLength:min: has
been deprecated"
- example_4800El_in800x600 -> "BlElement>>#position: … has been deprecated"
- example_5462nestedEl_in800x800_mouseMove50ms -> "BlElement>>#position: …
has been deprecated"
- example_821nestedEl_in1000x1000_mouseMove50ms -> "BlElement>>#position: …
has been deprecated"
- `#bezierControlPoints` -> "#emit was sent to nil"
- BlDragExamples, BlElementExampleCubeOpenGL, BlEventExamples -> not
immediately obvious how to use. Many examples seem to do nothing when
clicked from the browser
-  BlSelectionExamples don't seem to support... selection ha ha
- BrAttributeRopeExamples>>#attributesLeft tagged , but an
example of what?1



-
Cheers,
Sean
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Re: [Pharo-dev] Bloc Feedback

[Sean P. DeNigris]

Aliaksei Syrel wrote
> No, they don't. You have a very old version of Gt-Examples :)

I'm flummoxed. I downloaded a fresh Pharo 7 image via launcher, checked that
my local Bloc clone had the latest commits, and ran the "bleeding edge"
installation script from the README, namely:
Metacello new
   baseline: 'Bloc';
   repository: 'github://pharo-graphics/Bloc/src';
   load: #core

While I love what git (via e.g. GH) has made available especially regarding
social coding, at this point, I feel like I have no idea how to install
things. The results usually seem opaque and surprising :/



-
Cheers,
Sean
--
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Re: [Pharo-dev] Bloc Feedback

[Tudor Girba]

I am not sure I understand: Do you confirm that examples work properly for you?

Cheers,
Doru


> On Nov 26, 2017, at 5:51 PM, Sean P. DeNigris  wrote:
> 
> Aliaksei Syrel wrote
>> No, they don't. You have a very old version of Gt-Examples :)
> 
> I'm flummoxed. I downloaded a fresh Pharo 7 image via launcher, checked that
> my local Bloc clone had the latest commits, and ran the "bleeding edge"
> installation script from the README, namely:
> Metacello new
>   baseline: 'Bloc';
>   repository: 'github://pharo-graphics/Bloc/src';
>   load: #core
> 
> While I love what git (via e.g. GH) has made available especially regarding
> social coding, at this point, I feel like I have no idea how to install
> things. The results usually seem opaque and surprising :/
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Cheers,
> Sean
> --
> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Developers-f1294837.html
> 

--
www.tudorgirba.com
www.feenk.com

"If you interrupt the barber while he is cutting your hair,
you will end up with a messy haircut."

Re: [Pharo-dev] Bloc Feedback

[Sean P. DeNigris]

Tudor Girba-2 wrote
> I am not sure I understand

What I mean is that I followed that process before when I reported all those
bugs and if IIUC the responses I wasted my time because I was using old
versions and reporting bugs that had already been fixed.



-
Cheers,
Sean
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Re: [Pharo-dev] Bloc Feedback

[Sean P. DeNigris]

Aliaksei Syrel wrote
> There are so many complains about absence of class comments, but no one
> reads them. Looks like it is easier to remove experimental examples
> completely :)

I don't understand. I specifically skipped reporting BlExperimentalExamples
failures because of that comment.



-
Cheers,
Sean
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Re: [Pharo-dev] Bloc Feedback

[Sean P. DeNigris]

Aliaksei Syrel wrote
> No, they don't. You have a very old version of Gt-Examples :)

How do I get an image with the behavior in the video? I documented my steps.
Where am I going wrong?



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Cheers,
Sean
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Re: [Pharo-dev] Bloc Feedback

[Tudor Girba]

Hi,

> On Nov 27, 2017, at 12:38 AM, Sean P. DeNigris  wrote:
> 
> Aliaksei Syrel wrote
>> No, they don't. You have a very old version of Gt-Examples :)
> 
> How do I get an image with the behavior in the video? I documented my steps.
> Where am I going wrong?

In your description, you checked that you have the latest version of Bloc on 
the local disk. GToolkit-Examples is in another repository: 
pharo-local/iceberg/feenkcom/gtoolkit-examples.

The simplest way to ensure that you do get the latest versions is to delete the 
whole pharo-local/iceberg folder and then try re-loading the code in a fresh 
image.

Please let us know if you encounter problems.

Cheers,
Doru 

> 
> -
> Cheers,
> Sean
> --
> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Developers-f1294837.html
> 

--
www.tudorgirba.com
www.feenk.com

"Obvious things are difficult to teach."

Re: [Pharo-dev] Bloc Feedback

[Sean P. DeNigris]

Aliaksei Syrel wrote
>> So one would change the `loop: 1` in your example to `beInfinite`?
> ...
>  Also, what is the lifetime of an infinite animation?
> 
> 
> It can only be stopped by sending #stop to it.

Is holding it weakly from the element and sending #stop enough for the
animation to be garbage collected?



-
Cheers,
Sean
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Re: [Pharo-dev] Bloc Feedback

[Aliaksei Syrel]

Hi Sean,

Yes, after animation is stopped it is removed from the animation manager
and if referenced weakly should be garbage collected.
Otherwise it is a bug :)

Cheers,
Alex

On 2 December 2017 at 04:48, Sean P. DeNigris  wrote:

> Aliaksei Syrel wrote
> >> So one would change the `loop: 1` in your example to `beInfinite`?
> > ...
> >  Also, what is the lifetime of an infinite animation?
> >
> >
> > It can only be stopped by sending #stop to it.
>
> Is holding it weakly from the element and sending #stop enough for the
> animation to be garbage collected?
>
>
>
> -
> Cheers,
> Sean
> --
> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Developers-f1294837.html
>
>

Re: [Pharo-dev] Bloc Feedback

[Sean P. DeNigris]

Aliaksei Syrel wrote
> Yes, after animation is stopped it is removed from the animation manager
> and if referenced weakly should be garbage collected.
> Otherwise it is a bug :)

I changed the clock example code from `loop: 1` to `beInfinite` and opened a
bunch of clocks.

Now, in a fresh playground:
 



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Cheers,
Sean
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Re: [Pharo-dev] Bloc Feedback

[Tudor Girba]

Hi Sean,

The way I understand it is that the animation has to be stopped for the 
animation to be removed. If you make it to never stop, it will never be removed.

Cheers,
Doru


> On Dec 2, 2017, at 3:37 PM, Sean P. DeNigris  wrote:
> 
> Aliaksei Syrel wrote
>> Yes, after animation is stopped it is removed from the animation manager
>> and if referenced weakly should be garbage collected.
>> Otherwise it is a bug :)
> 
> I changed the clock example code from `loop: 1` to `beInfinite` and opened a
> bunch of clocks.
> 
> Now, in a fresh playground:
>  
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Cheers,
> Sean
> --
> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Developers-f1294837.html
> 

--
www.tudorgirba.com
www.feenk.com

"Being happy is a matter of choice."

Re: [Pharo-dev] Bloc Feedback

[Sean P. DeNigris]

Aliaksei Syrel wrote
> ...
>  Also, what is the lifetime of an infinite animation?
> ...
> Do you have any particular use-case for animations?

I hacked together a simplified stepping animation (may not be in the right
place in the class hierarchy). Here's a pull request to discuss
https://github.com/pharo-graphics/Bloc/pull/37



-
Cheers,
Sean
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Re: [Pharo-dev] Bloc Feedback

[Aliaksei Syrel]

Hi,

An object that is called now "Animation" in Bloc is not necessarily bound
to the visual element.
The correct name for the root class of "BlBaseAnimation" should be
"BlPostAction" - a valuable that is guaranteed to be evaluated in the
beginning of every frame before anything else. We have already a deferred
action but they are only evaluated when there is enough time between frames.
"BlBaseAnimation" should be renamed to something line "BlElementAnimation"
that is guaranteed to be bound to a visual element and stops itself if
element is no more in the scene graph *by checking that explicitly before
doing every animation step*.

Cheers,
Alex

On 2 December 2017 at 16:35, Sean P. DeNigris  wrote:

> Aliaksei Syrel wrote
> > ...
> >  Also, what is the lifetime of an infinite animation?
> > ...
> > Do you have any particular use-case for animations?
>
> I hacked together a simplified stepping animation (may not be in the right
> place in the class hierarchy). Here's a pull request to discuss
> https://github.com/pharo-graphics/Bloc/pull/37
>
>
>
> -
> Cheers,
> Sean
> --
> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Developers-f1294837.html
>
>

Re: [Pharo-dev] Bloc Feedback

[Aliaksei Syrel]

I forgot to mention that "BlPostAction" is a one time action - it
disappears once done :)

Cheers,
Alex

On 2 December 2017 at 17:26, Aliaksei Syrel  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> An object that is called now "Animation" in Bloc is not necessarily bound
> to the visual element.
> The correct name for the root class of "BlBaseAnimation" should be
> "BlPostAction" - a valuable that is guaranteed to be evaluated in the
> beginning of every frame before anything else. We have already a deferred
> action but they are only evaluated when there is enough time between frames.
> "BlBaseAnimation" should be renamed to something line "BlElementAnimation"
> that is guaranteed to be bound to a visual element and stops itself if
> element is no more in the scene graph *by checking that explicitly before
> doing every animation step*.
>
> Cheers,
> Alex
>
> On 2 December 2017 at 16:35, Sean P. DeNigris 
> wrote:
>
>> Aliaksei Syrel wrote
>> > ...
>> >  Also, what is the lifetime of an infinite animation?
>> > ...
>> > Do you have any particular use-case for animations?
>>
>> I hacked together a simplified stepping animation (may not be in the right
>> place in the class hierarchy). Here's a pull request to discuss
>> https://github.com/pharo-graphics/Bloc/pull/37
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Cheers,
>> Sean
>> --
>> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Developers-f1294837.html
>>
>>
>

Re: [Pharo-dev] Bloc Feedback

[Sean P. DeNigris]

Aliaksei Syrel wrote
> should be "BlPostAction" - a valuable that is guaranteed to be evaluated
> in the
> beginning of every frame before anything else.

That name and definition do not seem to fit to me. "Post" in what sense? Why
is "action" more accurate than "animation"?


Aliaksei Syrel wrote
> and stops itself if element is no more in the scene graph *by checking
> that explicitly before
> doing every animation step*.

I'd be interested in the performance cost of this approach, especially for
an example like Squeak's infection modelling morph…



-
Cheers,
Sean
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Re: [Pharo-dev] Bloc Feedback

[Stephane Ducasse]

Hi Aliaksei

Read again this sentence :)

 "BlPostAction" - a valuable that is guaranteed to be evaluated in the
beginning of every frame before anything else.

MAy be BlPostAction should be renamed BlEarlyAction



On Sat, Dec 2, 2017 at 5:26 PM, Aliaksei Syrel  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> An object that is called now "Animation" in Bloc is not necessarily bound to
> the visual element.
> The correct name for the root class of "BlBaseAnimation" should be
> "BlPostAction" - a valuable that is guaranteed to be evaluated in the
> beginning of every frame before anything else. We have already a deferred
> action but they are only evaluated when there is enough time between frames.
> "BlBaseAnimation" should be renamed to something line "BlElementAnimation"
> that is guaranteed to be bound to a visual element and stops itself if
> element is no more in the scene graph by checking that explicitly before
> doing every animation step.
>
> Cheers,
> Alex
>
> On 2 December 2017 at 16:35, Sean P. DeNigris  wrote:
>>
>> Aliaksei Syrel wrote
>> > ...
>> >  Also, what is the lifetime of an infinite animation?
>> > ...
>> > Do you have any particular use-case for animations?
>>
>> I hacked together a simplified stepping animation (may not be in the right
>> place in the class hierarchy). Here's a pull request to discuss
>> https://github.com/pharo-graphics/Bloc/pull/37
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Cheers,
>> Sean
>> --
>> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Developers-f1294837.html
>>
>

Re: [Pharo-dev] Bloc Feedback

[Ben Coman]

On 5 December 2017 at 05:19, Stephane Ducasse 
wrote:

> Hi Aliaksei
>
> Read again this sentence :)
>
>  "BlPostAction" - a valuable that is guaranteed to be evaluated in the
> beginning of every frame before anything else.
>
> MAy be BlPostAction should be renamed BlEarlyAction
>

BlPreAction


>
>
>
> On Sat, Dec 2, 2017 at 5:26 PM, Aliaksei Syrel 
> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > An object that is called now "Animation" in Bloc is not necessarily
> bound to
> > the visual element.
> > The correct name for the root class of "BlBaseAnimation" should be
> > "BlPostAction" - a valuable that is guaranteed to be evaluated in the
> > beginning of every frame before anything else. We have already a deferred
> > action but they are only evaluated when there is enough time between
> frames.
> > "BlBaseAnimation" should be renamed to something line
> "BlElementAnimation"
> > that is guaranteed to be bound to a visual element and stops itself if
> > element is no more in the scene graph by checking that explicitly before
> > doing every animation step.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Alex
> >
> > On 2 December 2017 at 16:35, Sean P. DeNigris 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Aliaksei Syrel wrote
> >> > ...
> >> >  Also, what is the lifetime of an infinite animation?
> >> > ...
> >> > Do you have any particular use-case for animations?
> >>
> >> I hacked together a simplified stepping animation (may not be in the
> right
> >> place in the class hierarchy). Here's a pull request to discuss
> >> https://github.com/pharo-graphics/Bloc/pull/37
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -
> >> Cheers,
> >> Sean
> >> --
> >> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Developers-f1294837.
> html
> >>
> >
>
>