Re: [Pharo-dev] Update question

[Stephan Eggermont]

On 25/03/15 20:01, Norbert Hartl wrote:

That wouldn't work. I save my image often under a different image name
because I tend to break the image or it crashes. With the changes log
not working the only feasible way is to make a lot of copies of your
images. So symlinking is not working that way.


Saving an image under a different name could be recognized by 
PharoLauncher, and integrated in the image list. That would then become

an extra level in the tree. Assuming the simple case of saving in the
same directory.

Stephan

Re: [Pharo-dev] Update question

[Ben Coman]

On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 3:01 AM, Norbert Hartl  wrote:

>
> That wouldn't work. I save my image often under a different image name
> because I tend to break the image or it crashes. With the changes log not
> working the only feasible way is to make a lot of copies of your images.
>

I frequently use  image in PharoLauncher.  I like that it
autogenerates a new name.  However its done outside the image so may not
fit your workflow.  Maybe dealing with images saved from within the image
is an enhancement PharoLauncher could consider.

cheers -ben

Re: [Pharo-dev] Update question

[Norbert Hartl]

> Am 25.03.2015 um 19:45 schrieb Damien Cassou :
> 
> In my opinion, the most important thing for you to do is to setup a 
> continuous integration server. Then you can download ready made, up to date,  
> and tested images every morning. You can download these images either with or 
> without the launcher.
> 
Thanks for the input. I'll may try that for other projects. I have a CI server 
for all of my projects. I need to load a lot of projects into one image in 
order to maintain changes among them. And I have adjustments to do for every 
image that are not done on the CI. You might argue that I could make 
configurations and scripts for all of these. Yes I could but I didn't. The next 
point is that I develop with pharo4 but the product needs to run on pharo3. So 
yes I could also build it for pharo3 and pharo4. I also have some workspaces 
with code snippets I need frequently. This I could script as well. Maybe I'll 
do all of this. At the moment I just want to update to have an actual pharo and 
test it and may give feedback. As it is not possible and the change of an image 
is a burden to me I just do not update. That's all. 
> If you want to try the launcher, you could symlink the launcher's managed 
> images from each of your project directories. 
> 
That wouldn't work. I save my image often under a different image name because 
I tend to break the image or it crashes. With the changes log not working the 
only feasible way is to make a lot of copies of your images. So symlinking is 
not working that way.

thanks anyway,

Norbert

> On Mar 24, 2015 3:37 PM, "Norbert Hartl"  > wrote:
> 
> > Am 24.03.2015 um 12:41 schrieb Serge Stinckwich  > >:
> >
> > PharoLauncher manage all your images and dl new images directly from the CI 
> > server. PharoLauncher is written in Pharo and can be adapted to your own 
> > needs ;-)
> >
> So there is nothing to gain. My use cases are completely different. I don't 
> want my images to be managen in one place. I have a lot of projects that have 
> their own project folder where they live with other resources and they are 
> organized in a directory structure that makes sense.
> My point was preventing the installation of my stuff in a new image 
> everytime. One project is a lot of stuff to load and adjust and for that I'd 
> like to just update the image. So to me it appears PharoLauncher is just able 
> to make my situation worse :)
> 
> Norbert
> 
> 
> 
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >> On 24 mars 2015, at 12:38, Norbert Hartl  >> > wrote:
> >>
> >> What would be better using PharoLauncher?
> >>
> >> Norbert
> >>
> >>> Am 24.03.2015 um 12:30 schrieb Serge Stinckwich 
> >>> mailto:serge.stinckw...@gmail.com>>:
> >>>
> >>> Don't update use PharoLauncher instead ! I use PharoLauncher everyday for 
> >>> my work and I download new images every 2-3 days.
> >>>
> >>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>
>  On 24 mars 2015, at 11:13, Norbert Hartl   > wrote:
> 
>  Today I wanted (again) to update my image and it can't find GT packages. 
>  So I'm interested how the community deals with that. Do you take fresh 
>  downloaded images regularly? Or you do not update? Is it just me?
> 
>  thanks,
> 
>  Norbert
> >>
> >>
> >
> 
> 

Re: [Pharo-dev] Update question

[Damien Cassou]

In my opinion, the most important thing for you to do is to setup a
continuous integration server. Then you can download ready made, up to
date,  and tested images every morning. You can download these images
either with or without the launcher.

If you want to try the launcher, you could symlink the launcher's managed
images from each of your project directories.
On Mar 24, 2015 3:37 PM, "Norbert Hartl"  wrote:

>
> > Am 24.03.2015 um 12:41 schrieb Serge Stinckwich <
> serge.stinckw...@gmail.com>:
> >
> > PharoLauncher manage all your images and dl new images directly from the
> CI server. PharoLauncher is written in Pharo and can be adapted to your own
> needs ;-)
> >
> So there is nothing to gain. My use cases are completely different. I
> don't want my images to be managen in one place. I have a lot of projects
> that have their own project folder where they live with other resources and
> they are organized in a directory structure that makes sense.
> My point was preventing the installation of my stuff in a new image
> everytime. One project is a lot of stuff to load and adjust and for that
> I'd like to just update the image. So to me it appears PharoLauncher is
> just able to make my situation worse :)
>
> Norbert
>
>
>
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >> On 24 mars 2015, at 12:38, Norbert Hartl  wrote:
> >>
> >> What would be better using PharoLauncher?
> >>
> >> Norbert
> >>
> >>> Am 24.03.2015 um 12:30 schrieb Serge Stinckwich <
> serge.stinckw...@gmail.com>:
> >>>
> >>> Don't update use PharoLauncher instead ! I use PharoLauncher everyday
> for my work and I download new images every 2-3 days.
> >>>
> >>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>
>  On 24 mars 2015, at 11:13, Norbert Hartl  wrote:
> 
>  Today I wanted (again) to update my image and it can't find GT
> packages. So I'm interested how the community deals with that. Do you take
> fresh downloaded images regularly? Or you do not update? Is it just me?
> 
>  thanks,
> 
>  Norbert
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>
>

Re: [Pharo-dev] Update question

[Norbert Hartl]

> Am 24.03.2015 um 18:45 schrieb Marcus Denker :
> 
> 
>> On 24 Mar 2015, at 11:13, Norbert Hartl  wrote:
>> 
>> Today I wanted (again) to update my image and it can't find GT packages. So 
>> I'm interested how the community deals with that. Do you take fresh 
>> downloaded images regularly? Or you do not update? Is it just me?
>> 
> 
> We should add an issue to the issue tracker… I really wonder how this 
> happens. 
> 
https://pharo.fogbugz.com/default.asp?15231 


Norbert

Re: [Pharo-dev] Update question

[Marcus Denker]

> On 24 Mar 2015, at 11:13, Norbert Hartl  wrote:
> 
> Today I wanted (again) to update my image and it can't find GT packages. So 
> I'm interested how the community deals with that. Do you take fresh 
> downloaded images regularly? Or you do not update? Is it just me?
> 

We should add an issue to the issue tracker… I really wonder how this happens. 

Marcus

Re: [Pharo-dev] Update question

[kilon alios]

"@Kilon:
  Integrating PharoLauncher in the standard image would not make sense.
Then I use PharoLauncher to download
  an image with a prepackaged PharoLauncher, ...

  If you mean that it should be the default tool to download when getting
Pharo 4.0 or Pharo 3.0 from the
  download page or from zeroconf then I would agree. Maybe some more help
is needed for Pharo newbees then."

Actually it makes perfect sense, think about it. We have configuration
browser. Now go to your pharolauncher and enable development mode, open
world menu and bingo pharolauncher is there as a tool and i think thats
great already. So you have 2 tools in your image 1) Configuration Browser
that allows you to install pharo libraries / apps 2) PharoLauncher that
allows you to download images . Both accessed in world menu and this
functionality is already provided by PharoLauncher.

"
I don't think Kilon was referring to PhaoLauncher, but to "World > System >
Software update"
cheers -ben"

Yeap correct Ben I was referring to Software Update, as a matter of fact I
loved PharoLauncher so much I became a contributor and added documentation
about it in the new PBE.

On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 4:43 PM, Norbert Hartl  wrote:

>
> > Am 24.03.2015 um 13:02 schrieb Sean P. DeNigris :
> >
> > NorbertHartl wrote
> >> What would be better using PharoLauncher?
> >
> > I was a hold out, but I've finally started using it and it's really nice.
> > For things that don't have an automated build process, it's much better
> than
> > downloading from file.pharo.org by hand. You can set the folder to
> which the
> > images get saved, and choose to make new images from e.g. Pharo 4, 3, 2,
> > moose, anything on the contribution CI server, and a few others.
> >
> > I really like Peter's idea to act from a startup script based on the
> image
> > name. That sounds like a powerful combination.
> >
>
> Oh, I didn't know that you can choose the folder where the images live. I
> might take another peek at it. But then I'm using something like that for a
> very long time.
>
> - make a folder projects in you home directory
> - in that folder create symlink to any of your smalltalk project directory
> that you are working at the moment
> - drop that folder in the dock
> - you click the icon on the dock, a list of projects pops up, you select
> one and you get the contents of that the directory. You click on an image
> and it starts
>
> So I'm not sure I'll gain something but I will try again.
>
> Norbert
>

Re: [Pharo-dev] Update question

[Norbert Hartl]

> Am 24.03.2015 um 13:02 schrieb Sean P. DeNigris :
> 
> NorbertHartl wrote
>> What would be better using PharoLauncher? 
> 
> I was a hold out, but I've finally started using it and it's really nice.
> For things that don't have an automated build process, it's much better than
> downloading from file.pharo.org by hand. You can set the folder to which the
> images get saved, and choose to make new images from e.g. Pharo 4, 3, 2,
> moose, anything on the contribution CI server, and a few others.
> 
> I really like Peter's idea to act from a startup script based on the image
> name. That sounds like a powerful combination.
> 

Oh, I didn't know that you can choose the folder where the images live. I might 
take another peek at it. But then I'm using something like that for a very long 
time.

- make a folder projects in you home directory
- in that folder create symlink to any of your smalltalk project directory that 
you are working at the moment
- drop that folder in the dock
- you click the icon on the dock, a list of projects pops up, you select one 
and you get the contents of that the directory. You click on an image and it 
starts

So I'm not sure I'll gain something but I will try again.

Norbert

Re: [Pharo-dev] Update question

[Ben Coman]

On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 9:19 PM, Sean P. DeNigris 
wrote:

> kilon.alios wrote
> > I tried it a few times, and had nothing but problems with it. We have
> > discussed here several times and from what I have learned there several
> > technical limitation.
>
>
I don't think Kilon was referring to PhaoLauncher, but to "World > System >
Software update"
cheers -ben

I initially had a bad experience as well. I probably didn't give it a fair
> trial, but also IIRC at that time the image folder was not configurable.
> Anyway, I had a much different experience with the latest version. I keep
> it
> in "Development Mode" (available in the settings) so I have full access to
> the IDE.
>
> 
>
>
>

Re: [Pharo-dev] Update question

[Norbert Hartl]

> Am 24.03.2015 um 12:41 schrieb Serge Stinckwich :
> 
> PharoLauncher manage all your images and dl new images directly from the CI 
> server. PharoLauncher is written in Pharo and can be adapted to your own 
> needs ;-)
> 
So there is nothing to gain. My use cases are completely different. I don't 
want my images to be managen in one place. I have a lot of projects that have 
their own project folder where they live with other resources and they are 
organized in a directory structure that makes sense.
My point was preventing the installation of my stuff in a new image everytime. 
One project is a lot of stuff to load and adjust and for that I'd like to just 
update the image. So to me it appears PharoLauncher is just able to make my 
situation worse :)

Norbert



> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 24 mars 2015, at 12:38, Norbert Hartl  wrote:
>> 
>> What would be better using PharoLauncher? 
>> 
>> Norbert
>> 
>>> Am 24.03.2015 um 12:30 schrieb Serge Stinckwich 
>>> :
>>> 
>>> Don't update use PharoLauncher instead ! I use PharoLauncher everyday for 
>>> my work and I download new images every 2-3 days.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On 24 mars 2015, at 11:13, Norbert Hartl  wrote:
 
 Today I wanted (again) to update my image and it can't find GT packages. 
 So I'm interested how the community deals with that. Do you take fresh 
 downloaded images regularly? Or you do not update? Is it just me?
 
 thanks,
 
 Norbert
>> 
>> 
> 

Re: [Pharo-dev] Update question

[Sean P. DeNigris]

kilon.alios wrote
> I tried it a few times, and had nothing but problems with it. We have
> discussed here several times and from what I have learned there several
> technical limitation.

I initially had a bad experience as well. I probably didn't give it a fair
trial, but also IIRC at that time the image folder was not configurable.
Anyway, I had a much different experience with the latest version. I keep it
in "Development Mode" (available in the settings) so I have full access to
the IDE.

 



-
Cheers,
Sean
--
View this message in context: 
http://forum.world.st/Update-question-tp4814680p4814762.html
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Re: [Pharo-dev] Update question

[Torsten Bergmann]

@Norbert:
  I also use PharoLauncher, this way I can download clean 3.0/4.0 or 
prepackaged (Moose, Boostrap) images at own will, 
  clone, copy as I like and with a fresh image it is easy to see if code is 
loading cleanly, ...

  I have to give up nothing. I can still profit from image development as I can 
save my image as usual and 
  continue with it later.


@Kilon:
  Integrating PharoLauncher in the standard image would not make sense. Then I 
use PharoLauncher to download
  an image with a prepackaged PharoLauncher, ...
  
  If you mean that it should be the default tool to download when getting Pharo 
4.0 or Pharo 3.0 from the 
  download page or from zeroconf then I would agree. Maybe some more help is 
needed for Pharo newbees then. 

  But I would vote for it as I would download/install Pharo one time on a 
machine and then choose - download - start
  the image that I like.
 

Gesendet: Dienstag, 24. März 2015 um 11:25 Uhr
Von: "kilon alios" 
An: "Pharo Development List" 
Betreff: Re: [Pharo-dev] Update question

I tried it a few times, and had nothing but problems with it. We have discussed 
here several times and from what I have learned there several technical 
limitation.
 I am using pharolauncher non stop and wonder why Pharolauncher is not 
integrated inside Pharo yet. I have added my code inside the configuration 
browser (Ephestos, Nireas) and Installing my code back in a fresh image is just 
a two click process.
 
On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 12:13 PM, Norbert Hartl  
wrote:Today I wanted (again) to update my image and it can't find GT packages. 
So I'm interested how the community deals with that. Do you take fresh 
downloaded images regularly? Or you do not update? Is it just me?

thanks,

Norbert

 

Re: [Pharo-dev] Update question

[Sean P. DeNigris]

NorbertHartl wrote
> What would be better using PharoLauncher? 

I was a hold out, but I've finally started using it and it's really nice.
For things that don't have an automated build process, it's much better than
downloading from file.pharo.org by hand. You can set the folder to which the
images get saved, and choose to make new images from e.g. Pharo 4, 3, 2,
moose, anything on the contribution CI server, and a few others.

I really like Peter's idea to act from a startup script based on the image
name. That sounds like a powerful combination.



-
Cheers,
Sean
--
View this message in context: 
http://forum.world.st/Update-question-tp4814680p4814725.html
Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Re: [Pharo-dev] Update question

[Serge Stinckwich]

PharoLauncher manage all your images and dl new images directly from the CI 
server. PharoLauncher is written in Pharo and can be adapted to your own needs 
;-)

Sent from my iPhone

> On 24 mars 2015, at 12:38, Norbert Hartl  wrote:
> 
> What would be better using PharoLauncher? 
> 
> Norbert
> 
>> Am 24.03.2015 um 12:30 schrieb Serge Stinckwich :
>> 
>> Don't update use PharoLauncher instead ! I use PharoLauncher everyday for my 
>> work and I download new images every 2-3 days.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On 24 mars 2015, at 11:13, Norbert Hartl  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Today I wanted (again) to update my image and it can't find GT packages. So 
>>> I'm interested how the community deals with that. Do you take fresh 
>>> downloaded images regularly? Or you do not update? Is it just me?
>>> 
>>> thanks,
>>> 
>>> Norbert
> 
> 

Re: [Pharo-dev] Update question

[Norbert Hartl]

What would be better using PharoLauncher? 

Norbert

> Am 24.03.2015 um 12:30 schrieb Serge Stinckwich :
> 
> Don't update use PharoLauncher instead ! I use PharoLauncher everyday for my 
> work and I download new images every 2-3 days.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 24 mars 2015, at 11:13, Norbert Hartl  wrote:
>> 
>> Today I wanted (again) to update my image and it can't find GT packages. So 
>> I'm interested how the community deals with that. Do you take fresh 
>> downloaded images regularly? Or you do not update? Is it just me?
>> 
>> thanks,
>> 
>> Norbert
>> 
>> 
> 

Re: [Pharo-dev] Update question

[Serge Stinckwich]

Don't update use PharoLauncher instead ! I use PharoLauncher everyday for my 
work and I download new images every 2-3 days.

Sent from my iPhone

> On 24 mars 2015, at 11:13, Norbert Hartl  wrote:
> 
> Today I wanted (again) to update my image and it can't find GT packages. So 
> I'm interested how the community deals with that. Do you take fresh 
> downloaded images regularly? Or you do not update? Is it just me?
> 
> thanks,
> 
> Norbert
> 
> 

Re: [Pharo-dev] Update question

[Thierry Goubier]

2015-03-24 11:13 GMT+01:00 Norbert Hartl :

> Today I wanted (again) to update my image and it can't find GT packages.
> So I'm interested how the community deals with that. Do you take fresh
> downloaded images regularly? Or you do not update? Is it just me?
>

I don't update. I want to make sure my developments are buildable somewhere
else (for a team member, for versionning, for moving work from one computer
to another), so I make sure I have a script for a fresh image (and I
regularly rebuild (i.e. commit, push, make clean, make).

My scripts are Makefiles, and the Makefiles are in the version control
system.

Thierry



>
> thanks,
>
> Norbert
>
>
>

Re: [Pharo-dev] Update question

[kilon alios]

I tried it a few times, and had nothing but problems with it. We have
discussed here several times and from what I have learned there several
technical limitation.

I am using pharolauncher non stop and wonder why Pharolauncher is not
integrated inside Pharo yet. I have added my code inside the configuration
browser (Ephestos, Nireas) and Installing my code back in a fresh image is
just a two click process.

On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 12:13 PM, Norbert Hartl  wrote:

> Today I wanted (again) to update my image and it can't find GT packages.
> So I'm interested how the community deals with that. Do you take fresh
> downloaded images regularly? Or you do not update? Is it just me?
>
> thanks,
>
> Norbert
>
>
>

Re: [Pharo-dev] Update question

[Peter Uhnák]

I didn't even know there was an update option.
Instead I download fresh images (regularly) through Pharo Launcher, plus I
have startup script that looks at the name of the image and does extra
stuff — e.g. if the image name contains MyProjectX, it automatically adds
repositories for it and loads it).

Peter

On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 11:13 AM, Norbert Hartl  wrote:

> Today I wanted (again) to update my image and it can't find GT packages.
> So I'm interested how the community deals with that. Do you take fresh
> downloaded images regularly? Or you do not update? Is it just me?
>
> thanks,
>
> Norbert
>
>
>

[Pharo-dev] Update question

[Norbert Hartl]

Today I wanted (again) to update my image and it can't find GT packages. So I'm 
interested how the community deals with that. Do you take fresh downloaded 
images regularly? Or you do not update? Is it just me?

thanks,

Norbert