Re: [Pharo-project] How to "fix" "broken" mcz files?
Hans, can you try to find those methods with non-ASCII characters in
Aida mcz-s and I'll try to get rid of it?
I suspect the translations to other languages as part of Aida
multilingual support can be a problem. Those translations are stored in
methods as UTF8 encoded. See WebSecurityManagerApp class, category
'translations'.
If this is it, then I'll try to store them as Base64 encoded instead.
Best regards
Janko
Dne 05. 05. 2013 10:51, piše Norbert Hartl:
>
> Am 05.05.2013 um 10:07 schrieb Holger Hans Peter Freyther
> :
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> when I port a project to GNU Smalltalk I tend to use the snapshot/*.st
>> and convert it. Now with some MCZ versions of Aida/Iliad this is failing
>> because the fileout is broken. The fileout is broken in a way that at
>> some point (without a BOM) the creator started to use UCS-4 (or such) for
>> the strings.
>>
>> This can be seen here[1] and either manually extracting the source and
>> using FileStream>>#fileIn: or by using the MczInstaller on the mcz file
>> (which is not working on the snapshot of the MCDefinition) the import
>> will fail.
>>
>> Is this a known/fixed problem with Monticello/Pharo? Is there a way to
>> re-create the source.st from the snapshot of the MCDefinitions?
>>
> Yes, the problem is known. Monticello has no handling for encoding. The last
> time I looked into it I could see that Monticello is assuming a latin1
> encoding. As soon as you include a non-latin1 character in the source it will
> be turned into a WideString. When this is written to disk either our
> UCS-4+leadingChar format is written or even worse in way that every byte of a
> WideString is latin1 encoded then. I'm not sure in any way it isn't the right
> way to do it.
> I started to fix this a couple of years ago but as most of the time the
> problem is deeply embedded in the image and grows the longer you look at it.
> And that exceeds my time frame I have for these things massively.
>
> The problem is easier to fix for the .st file because in case of String
> representations ('') or the usage of the String class it is platform
> independent. In the binary blob the platform specific classes like WideString
> appear that make it unreadable on other platforms. Here the canonical way of
> encoding something in utf-8 would also mean that platform dependent class are
> treated in the same canonical way to use only String instead of platform
> dependent ones. A platform that reads a monticello file gets utf-8 decodes it
> and then on occurrence of a wide character would then turn it into a platform
> dependent class, etc.
>
> So, in order to "fix" this I think the only feasible way is to get rid of
> non-latin1 characters in the source and save the package again. This is how
> it is done, e.g. in seaside. If someone really needs some non latin1
> characters they should be included programmatically, meaning at the right
> position in code use "Character value: …"
>
> Norbert
>
>
>
--
Janko Mivšek
Aida/Web
Smalltalk Web Application Server
http://www.aidaweb.si
Re: [Pharo-project] Call for ESUG 2013 presentations
Hi Stef, Let me answer simply: I as GSoC admin take a big care that GSoC emails reach as many Smalltalkers and communities as possible and if I cannot, I ask someone for help to do that. Because everyone deserves the opportunity on GSoC and yes, exactly, that someone wouldn't understand wrong, why he was not informed. I think such attitude is a necessity for any successful Smalltalk-wide effort as both Smalltalk GSoC and ESUG are. Best regards Janko Dne 25. 04. 2013 15:40, piše stephane ducasse: > Hi janko > Let's say that I found your email a bit funny. > > - First I'm on holidays using a slow connection internet and I should > something better for my holidays. > - Second I cannot post to Etoys, Squeak and this is years that nobody posted > anything on comp.lang.smalltalk. > - Third it took me more than afternoon writing the call so other people can > click and do forward to the mailing-lists of their wishes. > - Fourth if you believe that this is on purpose that I do not send mail to > the squeak mailing-lists, > I would say that you should start to do more for squeak than me and then we > can talk :). > > Stef > > On Apr 24, 2013, at 7:05 PM, Janko Mivšek wrote: > >> Hi Stef, >> >> I don't see that announcement on Squeak mailing list, nor others except >> vwnc, on comp.lang.smalltalk should also go, also squeakland, etoys, ... >> >> Best regards >> Janko >> >> Dne 24. 04. 2013 16:49, piše stephane ducasse: >>> with the corrected url >>> >>> with corrected uppercased C for conferences :) >>> >>> >>> >>> 21st International Smalltalk Joint Conference - Call for Contributions >>> >>> Annecy, France >>> from 9 to 13 September 2013 >>> http://www.esug.org/Conferences/2013/ >>> >>> This call includes: >>> Developer Forum >>> Smalltalk Technology Award >>> International Workshop >>> http://www.esug.org/Conferences/2013/InternationalWorkshop >>> Student Volunteer >>> http://www.esug.org/Conferences/2013/StudentVolunteers >>> Camp Smalltalk 8 September 2013 >>> >>> -- >>> For the past 21 years, the European Smalltalk User Group (ESUG) has >>> organised the International Smalltalk Conference, a lively forum on >>> cutting edge software technologies that attract people from both >>> academia and industry for a whole week. The attendees are both >>> engineers using Smalltalk in business and students and teachers >>> using Smalltalk both for research and didactic purposes. >>> >>> As every year, this year's edition of the largest European Smalltalk >>> event will include the regular Smalltalk developers conference with >>> renowned invited speakers, a Smalltalk camp that proves fruitful for >>> interactions and discussions. This year will be held the >>> 9th edition of the Innovation Technology Awards where prizes will be >>> awarded to authors of best pieces of Smalltalk-related projects >>> and an international workshop on Smalltalk and dynamic languages >>> (http://www.esug.org/Conferences/2013/InternationalWorkshop) >>> >>> You can support the ESUG conference in many different ways: >>> >>> * Sponsor the conference. New sponsoring packages are described at >>> http://www.esug.org/supportesug/becomeasponsor/ >>> * Submit a talk, a software or a paper to one of the events. See below. >>> * Attend the conference. We'd like to beat the previous record of >>> attendance (170 people at Amsterdam 2008)! >>> * Students can get free registration and hosting if they enrol >>> into the the Student Volunteers program. See below. >>> >>> Developers Forum: International Smalltalk Developers Conference >>> >>> >>> We are looking for YOUR experience on using Smalltalk. You will have >>> 30 min for presentations and 45 min for hand-ons tutorial. >>> >>> The list of topics for the normal talks and tutorials includes, but >>> is not limited to the following: >>> >>> * XP practices, Development tools, Experience reports >>> * Model driven development, Web development, Team management >>> * Meta-Modeling, Security, New libraries & frameworks >>> * Educational material, Embedded systems and robotics >>> * SOA and Web services, Interaction
Re: [Pharo-project] Call for ESUG 2013 presentations
processed! > > Subject: [ESUG 2013 Developers] + your name > First Name: > Last Name: > Email where you can always be reached: > Title: > Type: Tutorial/Talk/Teaching Pearl/OpenForum > Abstract: > Bio: > > > Any presentation not respecting this form will be discarded automatically > > > > International Workshop on Smalltalk Technologies > > http://www.esug.org/Conferences/2013/InternationalWorkshop > > Smalltalk is considered as a design pearl and as a beacon in the > realm of programming languages and programming environments. We are > proud to invite submissions to the International Workshop on > Smalltalk Technologies which is held as part of the ESUG 2013 joint > event. The goals of the workshop is to create a forum around > advances or experience in Smalltalk. We welcome contributions on all > aspects, theoretical as well as practical, of Smalltalk related > topics such as > > - aspect-oriented programming, meta-programming, >- frameworks, interaction with other languages, >- implementation, >- new dialects or languages implemented in Smalltalk, tools, >- meta-modeling, design patterns, experience reports > > Technology Award Competition > > The top 3 teams with the most innovative software will receive, > respectively, 500 Euros, 300 Euros and 200 Euros during an awards > ceremony at the conference. Developers of any Smalltalk-based > software are welcome to compete. > More information at http://www.esug.org/conferences/2013/ > > Student Volunteer Program > -------- > If you are a student wanting to attend ESUG, have you considered > being a student volunteer? Student volunteers help keep the > conference running smoothly; in return, they have free > accommodations, while still having most of the time to enjoy the > conference. > More information at >http://www.esug.org/Conferences/2013 >http://www.esug.org/Conferences/2013/StudentVolunteers > > We hope to see you there and have fun together. > -- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
[Pharo-project] GSoC: more mentors wanted
Dear Pharoers, We have quite nice projects, but mentors are still missing: http://gsoc2013.esug.org/projects http://gsoc2013.esug.org/mentors Look for projects without mentors and if you are interested, register on the site, go to the project and click Edit in the grayed area and choose yourself as a mentor. Same goes for the second mentor. Look around for such projects, offer the main mentor a help and if he agrees, put yourself on that project. That way you will influence the projects and therefore the whole Smalltalk the best possible way! What's difference between mentor and second mentor? Mentor is responsible for a project and student through the whole project lifecycle, while second mentor is officially to replace the main mentor in a case he cannot be mentor for any reasons anymore, but unofficially second mentor also helps the main mentor working on the project. There is only one main and only one second mentor possible. So please, anyone interested look at the projects and volunteer for mentorship. By replying to me or Serge, or to the current potential mentors. Best regards Janko -- Janko Mivšek Smalltalk GSoC Admin Team http://gsoc2013.esug.org
Re: [Pharo-project] GSoC: Good news !
Removed from Projects while let it stay on Ideas. It was and idea anyway :) Janko Dne 10. 04. 2013 12:58, piše Andrei Vasile Chis: > I agree it's best to remove it. > > Cheers, > Andrei > > > On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 12:07 PM, Tudor Girba <mailto:tu...@tudorgirba.com>> wrote: > > Yes, please. > > Doru > > > On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 11:44 AM, Janko Mivšek > mailto:janko.miv...@eranova.si>> wrote: > > Hi Clara and Andrei, > > So we should remove the Inspecting expressions project from > Ideas and > Projects page? > > Best regards > Janko > > -- > Janko Mivšek > Smalltalk GSoC Admin Team > http://gsoc2013.esug.org > > > Dne 10. 04. 2013 11:39, piše Andrei Vasile Chis: > > Hi Clara, > > > > > > I'm interested to get in as a student to play with the > debugger ^^ > > > > Nice > > > > I wrote the second proposal > > (http://gsoc2013.esug.org/projects/inspecting-expressions) without > > knowing there was already a proposal for improving the debugger > > (http://gsoc2013.esug.org/projects/debugger-improvements). > > The main one should be the second one. We can keep only that > one, I do > > not mind. > > > > Cheers, > > Andrei > > > > > > On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 3:18 PM, Clara Allende > mailto:clari.alle...@gmail.com> > > <mailto:clari.alle...@gmail.com > <mailto:clari.alle...@gmail.com>>> wrote: > > > > Janko, there are two project ideas for debugger > improvements... > > shouldn't they be one (to rule them all :P)? I'm > interested to get > > in as a student to play with the debugger ^^ > > > > Cheers > > > > > > On 8 April 2013 16:56, Janko Mivšek > mailto:janko.miv...@eranova.si> > > <mailto:janko.miv...@eranova.si > <mailto:janko.miv...@eranova.si>>> wrote: > > > > Dne 08. 04. 2013 20:54, piše Damien Cassou: > > > On Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 8:49 PM, Serge Stinckwich > > > <mailto:serge.stinckw...@gmail.com> > > <mailto:serge.stinckw...@gmail.com > <mailto:serge.stinckw...@gmail.com>>> wrote: > > >> Our Organization Application for "ESUG (European > Smalltalk User > > >> Group)" in Google Summer of Code 2013 has been > accepted ! > > > > > > > > > that's great. Do you know how many slots we got? > > > > We will know that later, somewhere in the May in the > middle of > > voting > > period. For now we really need to get a good pool of > mentors and of > > course students. Student proposal deadline is 3.May, > so we have > > a month > > only for all that. > > > > Therefore start promoting Smalltalk GSoC around > universities ASAP! > > > > Janko > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Damien Cassou > > > http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st > > > > > > "Success is the ability to go from one failure to > another without > > > losing enthusiasm." > > > Winston Churchill > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Janko Mivšek > > Smalltalk GSoC Admin Team > > http://gsoc2013.esug.org > > > > > > > > -- > Janko Mivšek > Smalltalk GSoC Admin Team > http://gsoc2013.esug.org > > > > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com <http://www.tudorgirba.com> > > "Every thing has its own flow" > > -- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
Re: [Pharo-project] GSoC: Good news !
Hi Clara and Andrei, So we should remove the Inspecting expressions project from Ideas and Projects page? Best regards Janko -- Janko Mivšek Smalltalk GSoC Admin Team http://gsoc2013.esug.org Dne 10. 04. 2013 11:39, piše Andrei Vasile Chis: > Hi Clara, > > > I'm interested to get in as a student to play with the debugger ^^ > > Nice > > I wrote the second proposal > (http://gsoc2013.esug.org/projects/inspecting-expressions) without > knowing there was already a proposal for improving the debugger > (http://gsoc2013.esug.org/projects/debugger-improvements). > The main one should be the second one. We can keep only that one, I do > not mind. > > Cheers, > Andrei > > > On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 3:18 PM, Clara Allende <mailto:clari.alle...@gmail.com>> wrote: > > Janko, there are two project ideas for debugger improvements... > shouldn't they be one (to rule them all :P)? I'm interested to get > in as a student to play with the debugger ^^ > > Cheers > > > On 8 April 2013 16:56, Janko Mivšek <mailto:janko.miv...@eranova.si>> wrote: > > Dne 08. 04. 2013 20:54, piše Damien Cassou: > > On Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 8:49 PM, Serge Stinckwich > > <mailto:serge.stinckw...@gmail.com>> wrote: > >> Our Organization Application for "ESUG (European Smalltalk User > >> Group)" in Google Summer of Code 2013 has been accepted ! > > > > > > that's great. Do you know how many slots we got? > > We will know that later, somewhere in the May in the middle of > voting > period. For now we really need to get a good pool of mentors and of > course students. Student proposal deadline is 3.May, so we have > a month > only for all that. > > Therefore start promoting Smalltalk GSoC around universities ASAP! > > Janko > > > > > > -- > > Damien Cassou > > http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st > > > > "Success is the ability to go from one failure to another without > > losing enthusiasm." > > Winston Churchill > > > > > > -- > Janko Mivšek > Smalltalk GSoC Admin Team > http://gsoc2013.esug.org > > > -- Janko Mivšek Smalltalk GSoC Admin Team http://gsoc2013.esug.org
[Pharo-project] GSoC: Mentors please register on our website
Dear mentors, Our special website is ready for registration which is very simple this year through your Google account: http://gsoc2013.esug.org/admin?view=loginGoogle It will let you go through a simple registration process. No need for remembering password nor username. Please don't change your email address afterward. After registration please "claim" your projects by clicking Edit link on the gray visit card of your project. You should also improve description of your project by editing it. You'll also be able to see registered students and their biographies, when they will start to write them. You don't need to logout, also there is no session timeout on this site. Best regards Janko -- Janko Mivšek Smalltalk GSoC Admin Team http://gsoc2013.esug.org
Re: [Pharo-project] Good news !
Dne 08. 04. 2013 20:54, piše Damien Cassou: > On Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 8:49 PM, Serge Stinckwich > wrote: >> Our Organization Application for "ESUG (European Smalltalk User >> Group)" in Google Summer of Code 2013 has been accepted ! > > > that's great. Do you know how many slots we got? We will know that later, somewhere in the May in the middle of voting period. For now we really need to get a good pool of mentors and of course students. Student proposal deadline is 3.May, so we have a month only for all that. Therefore start promoting Smalltalk GSoC around universities ASAP! Janko > > -- > Damien Cassou > http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st > > "Success is the ability to go from one failure to another without > losing enthusiasm." > Winston Churchill > > -- Janko Mivšek Smalltalk GSoC Admin Team http://gsoc2013.esug.org
Re: [Pharo-project] [Pharo-users] SLOC in Smalltalk
Hernán, It would be nice if you patch the WebCodeStats by yourself. I just set a read-write access to the http://www.squeaksource.com/WebCodeStats.html. Best regards Janko Dne 02. 04. 2013 04:54, piše Hernán Morales Durand: > Hi Janko. Thanks for your useful package. > > Apparently there is some issue with #linesOfCode. The dummy expression > below return 5 instead of 4 in Pharo 1.4 and 2 because is counting the > autogenerated 'DoIt' selector. > > (UndefinedObject evaluatorClass new > compileNoPattern: '| oc | > oc := OrderedCollection new: 20. > oc add: 1. > oc size' > in: UndefinedObject > context: nil > notifying: nil > ifFail: []) generate linesOfCode > > Hernán > > El 31/03/2013 10:17, Janko Mivšek escribió: >> Hi Hernán >> >> I once did some code statistics for our web frameworks, by counting: >> >>- Nr of packages, categories, classes, methods >>- lines of code >>- Avg methods/class >>- Avg lines/method >> >>- Nr of test methods >>- Avg tests/class >> >>- % of commented methods >>- % of commented classes >> >> Then three graphs were drawn: >> >>- Methods in classes >>- Class inheritance depth >>- Lines in methods >> >> Results can be seen here: >> >> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Atnb1W9vuq9ndG4wbUpxNXpKQnFZRlFyQXpHclhZa2c#gid=1 >> >> >> The code measuring all above is here: >> >> http://www.squeaksource.com/WebCodeStats.html >> >> >> Hope this helps >> Janko >> >> >> Dne 31. 03. 2013 09:23, piše Hernán Morales Durand: >>> Hi there, >>> Guys, what are you using to measure logical lines of code (LOC) in >>> Pharo? >>> Given I am measuring a script, is there any other software measure you >>> may recommend? >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Hernán >>> >> > > > -- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
Re: [Pharo-project] Modern and Future Smalltalk
Hi Dennis, For the web you can look at my ESUG presentation: On the Web Frontiers with Smalltalk http://ftp.eranova.si/aida/mivsek-web-frontiers-esug11.pdf Here you can find current trends of Smalltalk on the web: HTML5, real-time web, client-side web apps, mobile, revival of MVC pattern, what are the challenges, how Smalltalkers are prepared for them, etc. Hope this helps a bit Janko Dne 01. 04. 2013 05:43, piše Dennis Schetinin: > Hello, > > I'm preparing a report for a small local conference on the "Internet > Technologies". I would like to present some current Smalltalk trends in > this area. First of all, I'm thinking of Pharo efforts in conjunction > web frameworks like Seaside, AIDA/Web, Illiad. Certainly I'll talk about > Amber and hopefully there'll be a special report on it. I'll mention > GemStone. What else should I talk about? > > Best regards, > Dennis Schetinin > -- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
[Pharo-project] GSoC deadline passed, record number of ideas collected
Dear Smalltalkers, Serge and me just submitted the application for the GSoC (see its copy here: http://gsoc2013.esug.org/application), now let we wait finger crossed to the Monday 8.April when accepted organizations will be announced. But we have a good chance thanks to all of you spend a time to prepare the record number of ideas: 44, which is way over last year 25! Note also that you can still propose an project idea, there is two more weeks or so for that, but we need a solid list of ideas at that time for Google guys to see what we are really capable :) While idea authors please recheck that your idea is properly put on http://gsoc2013.esug.org/ideas. For any mistake I apologize in advance! Thanks therefore again to all, now a week and so a rest! Best regards Serge and Janko your GSoC admin team -- Janko Mivšek Smalltalk GSoC Admin Team http://gsoc2013.esug.org
Re: [Pharo-project] More GSoC ideas wanted, 3 days left ....
Hi Rico, Special congratulation for a 40th among record number of ideas this year! Janko Dne 29. 03. 2013 17:11, piše Ricardo Moran: > Hi, I have an idea: > > > *Title:* Arduino Web Interface > > *Level:* Beginner > > *Possible mentor:* Ricardo Moran > > *Possible second mentor: *Gabriela Arevalo > > *Description:* The Arduino project for Pharo currently includes a set of > core classes that allow you to communicate with an Arduino board. This > is generally enough for some projects. However, no user interface has > been implemented yet. This project involves the development of a web > interface that would allow to control an arduino from a web browser. > > *Technical Details:* The project could be implemented using Seaside and > Amber, and it would involve developing a set of generic web controls for > accessing the state of the arduino pins. These web controls must allow > the user to easily compose a website to control his arduino project. > The arduino pins could be classified as: > 1) digital input > 2) digital output > 3) analog input > 4) analog output (pwm) > Each of these pin types would have a different graphical representation, > and maybe inputs could be plotted over time. > Other devices (like motors, lcd displays, and such) could be modelled as > well. > > *Benefits to the Student:* The student will learn how to control an > Arduino from Pharo and to develop a web application (possibly using > Seaside and Amber). > > *Benefits to the Community:* The community would benefit from having a > set of generic web controls to interact with an Arduino, which would in > turn encourage the development of interesting projects using Pharo and > Arduino. The interaction via web is specially interesting for home > automation projects because it allows you to control some aspects of > your home from anywhere in the world, provided that you have access to a > web browser. > > > Cheers, > Richo > > > On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 10:51 AM, Dennis Schetinin <mailto:chae...@gmail.com>> wrote: > > … where cells can be worksheets! > > > -- > > Best regards, > > > Dennis Schetinin > > > > 2013/3/29 Hilaire Fernandes <mailto:hilaire.fernan...@gmail.com>> > > One more proposal. > > Thanks > > Hilaire > > =Title= > Worksheet toolkit > > =Level (beginner, intermediate, advanced)= > Intermediate > > =Mentor= > Hilaire Fernandes > > =Second mentor= > > =Description= > A Smalltalk based spreadsheet toolkit with a basic editor to: > add/delete cells > edit cells formula > render aspect > May depends on PetitParser to parse cells formula. > > =Technical Details= > The toolkit should be customizable. > > =Benefits to the Student= > Learn how to modelize a spreadseet, to design a view and editor. > Learn how to design an editor tool: model, view and controller. > > =Benefits to the Community= > A spreadsheet toolkit. > > > Le 29/03/2013 14:24, Sean P. DeNigris a écrit : > > b.t.w. 6 hours left for gsoc applications > > (http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/homepage/google/gsoc2013). > Any more?! > > > > > -- > Dr. Geo http://drgeo.eu > > > > -- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
Re: [Pharo-project] GSoC 2013 Modbus was Re: HMI
s and >>> allowing the operator to send commands to the PLC to start >>> machinery. Something doing this based in Smalltalk would be wonderful. >>> >>> [1] >>> http://www2.schneider-electric.com/sites/corporate/en/products-services/automation-control/products-offer/range-presentation.page?c_filepath=/templatedata/Offer_Presentation/3_Range_Datasheet/data/en/shared/automation_and_control/citect_scada.xml# >>> >>> >>> [2] http://global.wonderware.com/EN/Pages/WonderwareInTouchHMI.aspx >>> >>> Dennis Schetinin wrote: >>> >>>> So, here is the proposal: >>>> >>>> Name: Khubbatov Rustem >>>> >>>> >>>> Difficulty Level: Intermediate >>>> >>>> Description >>>> A framework for building Human-Machine Interfaces with Pharo >>>> back-end providing model, and presentation front-end in Amber. >>>> Technical Details >>>> >>>> >>>> A concrete task that should be implemented with this project is a >>>> prototype of UI for network management system or SCADA. Server-side >>>> (Pharo) will simulate network components and their data, and provide >>>> relevant events for client (Amber). The latter will present network >>>> items, their state and associated information, and provide UI to >>>> control them. An important part of this system is a communication >>>> layer between Amber and Pharo. >>>> >>>> >>>> Benefits for the Student >>>> >>>> >>>> The student will gain experience in building client-server >>>> applications with advanced UI and providing two-way communication >>>> between client and server. >>>> >>>> >>>> Benefits for the Community >>>> >>>> An ability to create highly interactive web-based applications is a >>>> must-have feature for any modern development system. Amber is a >>>> bleeding edge in this area in Smalltalk world. A good communication >>>> layer between Amber and (for example) Pharo is a very appealing >>>> decision for building complex client-server systems. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Best regards, >>>> Dennis Schetinin >>>> Sent with Sparrow (http://www.sparrowmailapp.com/?sig) >>>> >>>> >>>> On Monday, 2 April 2012 г. at 21:47, Janko Mivšek wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> Hi Dennis, >>>>> >>>>> I'd suggest to go ahead. This is first Amber-related project, so it >>>>> seems even more interesting. But hurry up. Let Rustem prepare the >>>>> proposal and you post here then we'll open the project page. >>>>> >>>>> Best regards >>>>> Janko >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 7:41 PM, Dennis Schetinin >>>> (mailto:chae...@gmail.com)> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Rustem Kkubbatov (http://gsoc2012.esug.org/rustem-khubbatov), >>>>>> another student I mentor in Tver State University, decided to try >>>>>> his luck with a project for GSoC. The problem is he can't >>>>>> currently choose a better approach. >>>>>> The original idea is to build a two-tier Human-Machine Interface >>>>>> (HMI) system (which can be used in a wide range of projects) with >>>>>> Pharo image as back-end (where a model lives) and Amber-based >>>>>> client as a front-end. But this thing seems to be "a little bit" >>>>>> too large for GSoC, isn't it? >>>>>> An alternative task could be to build a framework for message >>>>>> exchanging between Pharo and Amber. I could be the first mentor >>>>>> for a project based on original idea, or the second/first >>>>>> (depending on if anyone interested) for communication framework. >>>>>> Any ideas and advices are welcome (ASAP). Thank you in advance. >>>>>> >>>>>> Best regards, >>>>>> Dennis Schetinin >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >> >> >> > > > > -- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
Re: [Pharo-project] More GSoC ideas wanted, 3 days left ....
Yuriy, thanks for your explanation, I now understand the intent of your idea better. Good luck with it! Janko Dne 26. 03. 2013 20:24, piše Yuriy Tymchuk: > Hi Janko, > > To be honest, you are touching Java only by parsing it's code. Yes, it's > shifted towards Java because there is a lot of Java code that is ready to be > analyzed, but all work is done in Smalltalk. Moreover you have to keep model > generic, and this means that you have to work also with a Smalltalk model and > probably tweak it. This is a great opportunity for student to compare > languages and indeed see how much simpler Smalltalk is. That's how I see it. > > Regards > Yuriy > > > On 26 бер. 2013, at 19:56, Janko Mivšek wrote: > >> Privet Yuriy, >> >> Idea included, just that I'm wondering a bit if this one is a bit too >> Java and not much Smalltalk specific. Would you explain a bit more? >> Also, what others think? >> >> Best regards >> Janko >> >> >> Dne 26. 03. 2013 15:56, piše Yuriy Tymchuk: >>> Title: FAST Java Model >>> >>> Level: intermediate >>> >>> Possible mentor: Nikolas Anquetil >>> >>> Possible second mentor: Yuriy Tymchuk >>> >>> Description: For in depth source code analysis a support of abstract >>> syntax trees is required. FAST is an abstract syntax tree extension for >>> FAMIX meta-model that is used by Moose technology. The goal of this >>> project is to create a Java version of FAST. >>> >>> Technical Details: As programming languages are different, their AST >>> representations are different too. FAST model aims for creation of as >>> generic as possible core that can be extended for different languages. >>> Also the structure of a model allows creation of generic algorithms like >>> symbol resolution, metrics calculation and rule checking that will work >>> for any language. A prototype of FAST for Smalltalk is already >>> implemented by Yuriy Tymchuk as well as couple of nodes for Java. During >>> the project a student will implement the rest of the Java model, and >>> improve some parts of PetitJava parser that is used by FAST. >>> >>> Benefits to the Student: The student will gain a deep understanding of >>> a Java syntax and abstract syntax tree model. He will also learn about >>> PetitParser framework, and gain knowledge about software modeling and >>> analysis. >>> >>> Benefits to the Community: Community will get a FAST model for Java >>> that can be used for software assessment with Moose. Also this model can >>> be used later in PhD projects such as automation of source code >>> translation form C++ to Java. >>> >>> On 26 бер. 2013, at 12:36, Janko Mivšek >> <mailto:janko.miv...@eranova.si>> wrote: >>> >>>> Dear Pharoers, >>>> >>>> Ideas are slowly coming, 14 so far, but this is way below the 30+ in >>>> previous years. So, stretch your brain, come with some more ideas, which >>>> will be interesting for potential students and of course useful for our >>>> community. Students you are again welcome to propose such idea by your >>>> own. One student idea for now! >>>> >>>> Ideas so far: http://gsoc2013.esug.org/ideas >>>> >>>> To propose an idea just respond to this post by fulfilling this idea >>>> template: >>>> >>>> Title: >>>> >>>> Level: (beginner, intermediate, advanced) >>>> >>>> Possible mentor: (if already known) >>>> >>>> Possible second mentor: (if already known) >>>> >>>> Description >>>> >>>> Technical Details >>>> >>>> Benefits to the Student >>>> >>>> Benefits to the Community >>>> >>>> Best regards >>>> Serge and Janko, >>>> your this year GSoC admins -- Janko Mivšek Smalltalk GSoC Admin Team http://gsoc2013.esug.org
Re: [Pharo-project] [Pharo-users] More GSoC ideas wanted, 3 days left ....
Clement, your interesting idea was just added to the Ideas page. http://gsoc2013.esug.org/ideas#h-5. I shortened the title to just Pharo Image running on top of VirtualBox, will be ok? Dne 27. 03. 2013 10:30, piše �: > Title: A Pharo Image running on top of VirtualBox with the help of a > Linux micro kernel > > Level: intermediate > > Possible mentor: Clement Bera > > Possible second mentor: Marcus Denker, Camillo Bruni > > Description > Archiving Pharo / Squeak Image is not easy : it depends on a VM, that > depends on a processor and an OS. Sometimes, we find old Pharo / Squeak > Image that we cannot run because we have lost the appropriate VM. This > is even more relevant when the project rely on a specifically built VM. > Moreover, sometimes we have also lost the Pharo / Squeak Image sources > from that image and we cannot read easily the code. I propose then to > save the working image with its sources, changes file and VM into a > virtual box image in order to have it working on top of virtual box > easily forever. This way the archived image will only depends on the > computer processor, and not on VM, OS, computer processor, source file, > change file > > Technical Details > The student would have to identify a minimum linux kernel in order to > run Pharo. Then, he would have to implement some Pharo code so that by > entering 'Smalltalk saveAsVirtualBoxImage' in workspace it would create > a virtual box image in the same folder, with the current VM, source > file, change file, image and the minimum linux kernel. This command will > probably go get some part of the virtual box image (for instance the > linux micro kernel) or some external tool as Vagrant > (http://www.vagrantup.com) somewhere on the internet. Running the > virtual box image would directly run the Pharo image on the Pharo VM > through a start-up process. Lastly, the student would have to set up a > Jenkins job on the Pharo-contribution continuous integration server that > create a Pharo virtual box image. If some time is remaining, the student > would have to find a solution to manage the Pharo image crashes in > virtual box. > > Benefits to the Student > The student will learn some smalltalk (networking, commandLineHandler), > how to set up a build in a Jenkins continuous integration server and > some linux command line. He will also have a nice impressive open source > tool to show. > > Benefits to the Community > The community will benefit from the archiving tool. The Pharo virtual > box image could also be interesting for some experiments. > > 2013/3/26 stephane ducasse <mailto:stephane.duca...@free.fr>> > > > On Mar 26, 2013, at 2:36 PM, Janko Mivšek <mailto:janko.miv...@eranova.si>> wrote: > > > Hi Stef, > > > > Dne 26. 03. 2013 13 :35, piše stephane > ducasse: > >> Janko > >> > >> Can you put andrei chis and nicolas passerini for Debugger > improvment projects. > > > > Put where? As mentors? > > Yes they are more into it. > > > > >> I know that alexandre should propose a couple of topics around > roassal. > >> > >> I could come up with a couple of other topics. > >> Here is one: > > > > Added > > > > Best regards > > Janko > >> > >> > >>> Ideas so far: http://gsoc2013.esug.org/ideas > >>> > >>> To propose an idea just respond to this post by fulfilling this idea > >>> template: > >>> > >>> Title: > >> Better rewriting rule tool > >> > >> > >>> Level: (beginner, intermediate, advanced) > >> Intermediate > >> > >>> Possible mentor: (if already known) > >> Stephane Ducasse > >> > >>> Possible second mentor: (if already known) > >> Andre Hora > >>> > >>> Description > >> The refactoring browser is based on a powerful rewrite > engine which transforms AST. > >> However it is quite cumbersome to write rewrite rules. There > is a need to build a tool to help > >> programmers defining their own transformation. > >> > >>> Technical Details > >>> > >>> Benefits to the Student > >> learning AST > >> learning AST transofrmation > >> learning AST pattern matching > >> User interface definition > >> > >>> Benefits to the Community > >> A tool that is cruelly missing. > >> > >> > >>> > >>> Best regards > >>> Serge and Janko, > >>> your this year GSoC admins > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Janko Mivšek > >>> Aida/Web > >>> Smalltalk Web Application Server > >>> http://www.aidaweb.si > >>> > >> > >> > >> > > > > -- > > Janko Mivšek > > Aida/Web > > Smalltalk Web Application Server > > http://www.aidaweb.si > > > > > -- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
Re: [Pharo-project] GSoC idea: Spec over Aida component model
Hi Benjamin Dne 26. 03. 2013 16:04, piše Benjamin: > Of course I could be a mentor :) > > But my question is can I be a mentor and a student ? Unfortunatelly not :( > And this proposal go in the direction I want Spec to follow: > platform/framework independency :) > I know that Nico would love to have Spec running in Amber ^^ So you'd like to run as a student for the Spec Independency project, which is also your proposal, so this is actually a Student proposal, right? :) In any case your project can be a good one in parallel to Spec over Aida one. And another over Amber? That way we can evolve Spec while testing it in many frameworks at once. But it seems that we all need to adjust a terminology a bit, HTML5 terms are a bit different, those ins W3C Web Components spec different again, etc. Then event architecture could be different that one in web browser's DOM tree. Then MVC, dependency mechanism, how ideas from JavaScript MVC frameworks like Ember.js, Angular.js etc, can be covered with Spec. In any case, pretty amusing projects indeed :) Best regards Janko > > Ben > > On Mar 26, 2013, at 3:49 PM, Janko Mivšek <mailto:janko.miv...@eranova.si>> wrote: > >> Guys, would be this an interesting project to advance Smalltalk UI more >> toward bleeding edge again, after 30 years, when we were there already >> with MVC based GUI? Spec project have a potential here and Spec over web >> frameworks to build fully desktop-capable web apps seems to be >> achievable. Spec over Amber (who will propose that?), Spec over Aida, >> Spec over Seaside? Benjamin, would you be a co-mentor of that project? >> >> Title: Spec over Aida for desktop-capable Web Apps >> >> Level: advanced >> >> Possible mentor: Janko Mivšek >> >> Possible second mentor: Benjamin? >> >> Description >> >> Spec as a means to describe and generate GUI has a potential to help >> building web applications as well. And because one of Spec goals is to >> become a platform/framework independent, this project has a goal to >> extend Aida component model for building Single Page web apps to become >> Spec-aware >> >> >> Technical Details >> >> Aida has a component model for building so called Single Page web UIs, >> capable of composing a hierarchy of so called web widgets, which are >> standalone reusable components, together with hierarchical web form >> support. Spec as descriptor and generator of UI is therefore a natural >> extension of Aida component model. When a HTML5 Web Components standard >> will be ready, Aida component model can be easily extended to support >> that standard as well, together with Spec (and maybe UIBuilder too?). >> >> Benefits to the Student >> >> Student will acquire the knowledge and experience of building >> desktop-capable UIs on the web using HTML5 approach. >> >> Benefits to the Community >> >> Spec has a potential to become a de-facto standard way of describing >> User Interfaces for Smalltalk projects from desktop to web and mobile, >> on a dialect and web framework neutral way. This project can contribute >> a piece toward that goal. >> >> >> Best regards >> Janko >> >> >> -- >> Janko Mivšek >> Aida/Web >> Smalltalk Web Application Server >> http://www.aidaweb.si >> > -- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
Re: [Pharo-project] More GSoC ideas wanted, 3 days left ....
Privet Yuriy, Idea included, just that I'm wondering a bit if this one is a bit too Java and not much Smalltalk specific. Would you explain a bit more? Also, what others think? Best regards Janko Dne 26. 03. 2013 15:56, piše Yuriy Tymchuk: > Title: FAST Java Model > > Level: intermediate > > Possible mentor: Nikolas Anquetil > > Possible second mentor: Yuriy Tymchuk > > Description: For in depth source code analysis a support of abstract > syntax trees is required. FAST is an abstract syntax tree extension for > FAMIX meta-model that is used by Moose technology. The goal of this > project is to create a Java version of FAST. > > Technical Details: As programming languages are different, their AST > representations are different too. FAST model aims for creation of as > generic as possible core that can be extended for different languages. > Also the structure of a model allows creation of generic algorithms like > symbol resolution, metrics calculation and rule checking that will work > for any language. A prototype of FAST for Smalltalk is already > implemented by Yuriy Tymchuk as well as couple of nodes for Java. During > the project a student will implement the rest of the Java model, and > improve some parts of PetitJava parser that is used by FAST. > > Benefits to the Student: The student will gain a deep understanding of > a Java syntax and abstract syntax tree model. He will also learn about > PetitParser framework, and gain knowledge about software modeling and > analysis. > > Benefits to the Community: Community will get a FAST model for Java > that can be used for software assessment with Moose. Also this model can > be used later in PhD projects such as automation of source code > translation form C++ to Java. > > On 26 бер. 2013, at 12:36, Janko Mivšek <mailto:janko.miv...@eranova.si>> wrote: > >> Dear Pharoers, >> >> Ideas are slowly coming, 14 so far, but this is way below the 30+ in >> previous years. So, stretch your brain, come with some more ideas, which >> will be interesting for potential students and of course useful for our >> community. Students you are again welcome to propose such idea by your >> own. One student idea for now! >> >> Ideas so far: http://gsoc2013.esug.org/ideas >> >> To propose an idea just respond to this post by fulfilling this idea >> template: >> >> Title: >> >> Level: (beginner, intermediate, advanced) >> >> Possible mentor: (if already known) >> >> Possible second mentor: (if already known) >> >> Description >> >> Technical Details >> >> Benefits to the Student >> >> Benefits to the Community >> >> Best regards >> Serge and Janko, >> your this year GSoC admins >> >> >> -- >> Janko Mivšek >> Aida/Web >> Smalltalk Web Application Server >> http://www.aidaweb.si >> > -- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
[Pharo-project] GSoC idea: Spec over Aida component model
Guys, would be this an interesting project to advance Smalltalk UI more toward bleeding edge again, after 30 years, when we were there already with MVC based GUI? Spec project have a potential here and Spec over web frameworks to build fully desktop-capable web apps seems to be achievable. Spec over Amber (who will propose that?), Spec over Aida, Spec over Seaside? Benjamin, would you be a co-mentor of that project? Title: Spec over Aida for desktop-capable Web Apps Level: advanced Possible mentor: Janko Mivšek Possible second mentor: Benjamin? Description Spec as a means to describe and generate GUI has a potential to help building web applications as well. And because one of Spec goals is to become a platform/framework independent, this project has a goal to extend Aida component model for building Single Page web apps to become Spec-aware Technical Details Aida has a component model for building so called Single Page web UIs, capable of composing a hierarchy of so called web widgets, which are standalone reusable components, together with hierarchical web form support. Spec as descriptor and generator of UI is therefore a natural extension of Aida component model. When a HTML5 Web Components standard will be ready, Aida component model can be easily extended to support that standard as well, together with Spec (and maybe UIBuilder too?). Benefits to the Student Student will acquire the knowledge and experience of building desktop-capable UIs on the web using HTML5 approach. Benefits to the Community Spec has a potential to become a de-facto standard way of describing User Interfaces for Smalltalk projects from desktop to web and mobile, on a dialect and web framework neutral way. This project can contribute a piece toward that goal. Best regards Janko -- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
Re: [Pharo-project] [Pharo-users] More GSoC ideas wanted, 3 days left ....
Hi Stef, Dne 26. 03. 2013 13:35, piše stephane ducasse: > Janko > > Can you put andrei chis and nicolas passerini for Debugger improvment > projects. Put where? As mentors? > I know that alexandre should propose a couple of topics around roassal. > > I could come up with a couple of other topics. > Here is one: Added Best regards Janko > > >> Ideas so far: http://gsoc2013.esug.org/ideas >> >> To propose an idea just respond to this post by fulfilling this idea >> template: >> >> Title: > Better rewriting rule tool > > >> Level: (beginner, intermediate, advanced) > Intermediate > >> Possible mentor: (if already known) > Stephane Ducasse > >> Possible second mentor: (if already known) > Andre Hora >> >> Description > The refactoring browser is based on a powerful rewrite engine which > transforms AST. > However it is quite cumbersome to write rewrite rules. There is a need > to build a tool to help > programmers defining their own transformation. > >> Technical Details >> >> Benefits to the Student > learning AST > learning AST transofrmation > learning AST pattern matching > User interface definition > >> Benefits to the Community > A tool that is cruelly missing. > > >> >> Best regards >> Serge and Janko, >> your this year GSoC admins >> >> >> -- >> Janko Mivšek >> Aida/Web >> Smalltalk Web Application Server >> http://www.aidaweb.si >> > > > -- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
[Pharo-project] More GSoC ideas wanted, 3 days left ....
Dear Pharoers, Ideas are slowly coming, 14 so far, but this is way below the 30+ in previous years. So, stretch your brain, come with some more ideas, which will be interesting for potential students and of course useful for our community. Students you are again welcome to propose such idea by your own. One student idea for now! Ideas so far: http://gsoc2013.esug.org/ideas To propose an idea just respond to this post by fulfilling this idea template: Title: Level: (beginner, intermediate, advanced) Possible mentor: (if already known) Possible second mentor: (if already known) Description Technical Details Benefits to the Student Benefits to the Community Best regards Serge and Janko, your this year GSoC admins -- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
Re: [Pharo-project] GSoC13: Google Summer of Code started, your ideas please!
Hi Serge, I also think SciSmalltalk project is important for us so please put it into a our GSoC idea template, then I'll put it on the ideas page. Best regards Janko Dne 10. 03. 2013 15:44, piše Serge Stinckwich: > Dear all, > > I would like to propose something related to SciSmalltalk: > https://github.com/SergeStinckwich/SciSmalltalk > This is really important if we want Smalltalk to be accepted in the > scientific community. > I want to submit a project that will only focus on ODE (Ordinary > Differential Equation) solving. > Some preliminary works has already be done in this direction. > > I would like to know if a GSOC student could be hosted in a lab ? > > Regards, > > On Sat, Mar 9, 2013 at 1:03 PM, Janko Mivšek wrote: >> Dear Smalltalkers, >> >> Time for your cool project ideas on this year Smalltalk GSoC! >> >> For now just express any idea you have here on the mailing list. Later >> we will together develop it to be in complete format together with two >> mentors needed. Deadline is end of Mart, so we have three weeks of time. >> To see how fully developed ideas look like please look at 2012 ones at: >> http://gsoc2012.esug.org/ideas. >> >> Note also that students yourselves can propose a GSoC project. So if you >> like to be a student on this year GSoC and have a nice idea, don't be >> shy and propose it here! The community will listen you and guide to the >> really nicely proposed project. Last year 6 student proposed projects >> were accepted and finished successfully! >> >> For the community, start looking around for students. Think about how to >> approach the universities near by you, do you know who to contact >> there, etc. >> >> We are namely preparing an application to this year Smalltalk Google >> Summer of Code under ESUG umbrella, as last year. If accepted, Google >> will pay few stipendiums to students on our Smalltalk projects. >> >> More on our special Smalltalk GSoC 2013 website: >> >> http://gsoc2013.esug.org >> >> I'm specially inviting mentors of all past GSoCs to rejoin the mentors >> mailing list, where we discuss all details about this year GSoC: >> >> http://groups.google.com/group/smalltalk-gsoc-mentors >> >> While students interested on GSoC please join a special Smalltalk GSoC >> mailing list for you: >> >> http://groups.google.com/group/smalltalk-gsoc-students >> >> Best regards >> Janko >> >> >> -- >> Janko Mivšek >> Aida/Web >> Smalltalk Web Application Server >> http://www.aidaweb.si >> > > > > -- > Serge Stinckwich > UCBN & UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC) > Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk > http://doesnotunderstand.org/ > > -- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
Re: [Pharo-project] [Pharo-users] GSoC13: Google Summer of Code started, your ideas please!
Hi Stef, Dne 09. 03. 2013 21:47, piše Stéphane Ducasse: > I sent some topics now I think that it would be better to edit directly the > web site because else somebody will have to do it again. > So if you need I can edit directly a form. Direct editing will certainly be a better solution, just that for now only the whole ideas page will be editable and not through a form for each idea separately (I don't have a time right now for adding that). To edit a whole page publicly I need to recheck the locking mechanism first, then OpenID authentication currently don't work because of a expired Google's cert, so ... let me put ideas by me for now, later I'll try to open editing more broadly. Best regards Janko > > Stef > > >> Hi Stef, >> >> Post on the mailing list for each project idea by following this template: >> >> Level: (beginner, intermediate, advanced) >> >> Possible mentor: >> >> Possible second mentor: >> >> Description >> >> Technical Details >> >> Benefits to the Student >> >> Benefits to the Community >> >> Best regards >> Janko >> >> Dne 09. 03. 2013 13:46, piše stephane ducasse: >>> Hi janko >>> >>> How do you want to proceed for the topics? >>> I have a list of topics now where do we write them. >>> >>> - tool support rewrite rules >>> - new generation debugger >>> - new change model and session manager (with martin dias) >>> - improving roassal (with alexandre bergel et vanessa pena) >>> - improving eyesee (with alexandre bergel et vanessa pena) >>> - support touch event >>> - UIPainter (with esteban lorenzano) >>> - New widgets >>> >>> >>> Stef >>> >>> >>>> Dear Smalltalkers, >>>> >>>> Time for your cool project ideas on this year Smalltalk GSoC! >>>> >>>> For now just express any idea you have here on the mailing list. Later >>>> we will together develop it to be in complete format together with two >>>> mentors needed. Deadline is end of Mart, so we have three weeks of time. >>>> To see how fully developed ideas look like please look at 2012 ones at: >>>> http://gsoc2012.esug.org/ideas. >>>> >>>> Note also that students yourselves can propose a GSoC project. So if you >>>> like to be a student on this year GSoC and have a nice idea, don't be >>>> shy and propose it here! The community will listen you and guide to the >>>> really nicely proposed project. Last year 6 student proposed projects >>>> were accepted and finished successfully! >>>> >>>> For the community, start looking around for students. Think about how to >>>> approach the universities near by you, do you know who to contact >>>> there, etc. >>>> >>>> We are namely preparing an application to this year Smalltalk Google >>>> Summer of Code under ESUG umbrella, as last year. If accepted, Google >>>> will pay few stipendiums to students on our Smalltalk projects. >>>> >>>> More on our special Smalltalk GSoC 2013 website: >>>> >>>>http://gsoc2013.esug.org >>>> >>>> I'm specially inviting mentors of all past GSoCs to rejoin the mentors >>>> mailing list, where we discuss all details about this year GSoC: >>>> >>>>http://groups.google.com/group/smalltalk-gsoc-mentors >>>> >>>> While students interested on GSoC please join a special Smalltalk GSoC >>>> mailing list for you: >>>> >>>>http://groups.google.com/group/smalltalk-gsoc-students >>>> >>>> Best regards >>>> Janko >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Janko Mivšek >>>> Aida/Web >>>> Smalltalk Web Application Server >>>> http://www.aidaweb.si >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> -- >> Janko Mivšek >> Aida/Web >> Smalltalk Web Application Server >> http://www.aidaweb.si >> > > > -- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
Re: [Pharo-project] [Pharo-users] [squeak-dev] GSoC13: Google Summer of Code started, your ideas please!
Hi Stef, Post on the mailing list for each project idea by following this template: Level: (beginner, intermediate, advanced) Possible mentor: Possible second mentor: Description Technical Details Benefits to the Student Benefits to the Community Best regards Janko Dne 09. 03. 2013 13:46, piše stephane ducasse: > Hi janko > > How do you want to proceed for the topics? > I have a list of topics now where do we write them. > > - tool support rewrite rules > - new generation debugger > - new change model and session manager (with martin dias) > - improving roassal (with alexandre bergel et vanessa pena) > - improving eyesee (with alexandre bergel et vanessa pena) > - support touch event > - UIPainter (with esteban lorenzano) > - New widgets > > > Stef > > >> Dear Smalltalkers, >> >> Time for your cool project ideas on this year Smalltalk GSoC! >> >> For now just express any idea you have here on the mailing list. Later >> we will together develop it to be in complete format together with two >> mentors needed. Deadline is end of Mart, so we have three weeks of time. >> To see how fully developed ideas look like please look at 2012 ones at: >> http://gsoc2012.esug.org/ideas. >> >> Note also that students yourselves can propose a GSoC project. So if you >> like to be a student on this year GSoC and have a nice idea, don't be >> shy and propose it here! The community will listen you and guide to the >> really nicely proposed project. Last year 6 student proposed projects >> were accepted and finished successfully! >> >> For the community, start looking around for students. Think about how to >> approach the universities near by you, do you know who to contact >> there, etc. >> >> We are namely preparing an application to this year Smalltalk Google >> Summer of Code under ESUG umbrella, as last year. If accepted, Google >> will pay few stipendiums to students on our Smalltalk projects. >> >> More on our special Smalltalk GSoC 2013 website: >> >> http://gsoc2013.esug.org >> >> I'm specially inviting mentors of all past GSoCs to rejoin the mentors >> mailing list, where we discuss all details about this year GSoC: >> >> http://groups.google.com/group/smalltalk-gsoc-mentors >> >> While students interested on GSoC please join a special Smalltalk GSoC >> mailing list for you: >> >> http://groups.google.com/group/smalltalk-gsoc-students >> >> Best regards >> Janko >> >> >> -- >> Janko Mivšek >> Aida/Web >> Smalltalk Web Application Server >> http://www.aidaweb.si >> > > > -- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
[Pharo-project] GSoC13: Google Summer of Code started, your ideas please!
Dear Smalltalkers, Time for your cool project ideas on this year Smalltalk GSoC! For now just express any idea you have here on the mailing list. Later we will together develop it to be in complete format together with two mentors needed. Deadline is end of Mart, so we have three weeks of time. To see how fully developed ideas look like please look at 2012 ones at: http://gsoc2012.esug.org/ideas. Note also that students yourselves can propose a GSoC project. So if you like to be a student on this year GSoC and have a nice idea, don't be shy and propose it here! The community will listen you and guide to the really nicely proposed project. Last year 6 student proposed projects were accepted and finished successfully! For the community, start looking around for students. Think about how to approach the universities near by you, do you know who to contact there, etc. We are namely preparing an application to this year Smalltalk Google Summer of Code under ESUG umbrella, as last year. If accepted, Google will pay few stipendiums to students on our Smalltalk projects. More on our special Smalltalk GSoC 2013 website: http://gsoc2013.esug.org I'm specially inviting mentors of all past GSoCs to rejoin the mentors mailing list, where we discuss all details about this year GSoC: http://groups.google.com/group/smalltalk-gsoc-mentors While students interested on GSoC please join a special Smalltalk GSoC mailing list for you: http://groups.google.com/group/smalltalk-gsoc-students Best regards Janko -- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
[Pharo-project] MongoTalk dependency on Grease
Hi guys, While loading ConfigurationOfMongoTalk the Grease loaded also RefactoringBrowser, Slime, etc. Does MongoTalk really needs RefactoringBrowser and Sime for its work? Even more, isn't better to achieve MongoTalk portability with less invasive approach like more careful and "least common denominator" coding, etc? Best regards Janko -- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
Re: [Pharo-project] [squeak-dev] In Memory of Andreas Raab
This news are really shock for me. Shock because we lost one of the brightest Smalltalkers who contributed to our community a lot. Janko Dne 15. 01. 2013 03:30, piše Ron Teitelbaum: > All, > > I met Andreas many years ago. I knew very quickly that Andreas was > extremely bright and a very interesting person to know. The more I > found out about him the more we interacted the more I grew to respect > him and his talent. I was lucky enough to get a chance to work with > Andreas. Andreas was a phenomenon. The work that he created was > beautiful. His method precise, his solutions well thought out and he > was able to create with unmatched dexterity and efficiency. We became > good friends. I was also lucky enough to be meet Andreas in person for > the first time at his wedding. Andreas was a very happy man. Kathleen > was Andreas’ perfect match. > > We will miss Andreas terribly not only for his talent, but for how he > touched our lives. We lost a great friend. The world feels like a much > smaller place today. Our hearts go out to Kathleen, and to the big > group of family and friends that loved him so. > > Ron Teitelbaum > > From Alan Kay: > > Dear All > > At lunch today we -- Bert, Aran, Yoshiki and myself -- first got word > (via a phone call from Rita to Bert) that Andreas was suddenly in a > hospital in serious condition. Then a few minutes later we were told > that he had died. > > At this point we have no other information except that he left normally > for work this morning. > > Bert will let us know when we have more news. > > We all loved Andreas and nothing can lesson our grief at this sudden tragedy > > Best wishes to all > > Alan > > > > -- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
Re: [Pharo-project] About (backwards) Compatibility
Dne 15. 12. 2012 12:46, piše Igor Stasenko: > Hold on.. Since when Pharo project became professional product? > How much money you and others paying for using it? > Yes, we position it as a product FOR professionals, > but does it automatically makes a professional one? > I don't think so. > So, why you think that it is correct to put such requirements/expectations it? Let me explain what I meant by 'professional product'. Product for professionals implies the characteristics of professional product. Even if it is an open source one and partially paid by donations. One of the main characteristic is a clear path of upgrading to a new version. Another is a proper 'Customer Relationship Management'. BTW, ask Gemstone guys for help here, they are very good in migration help to the new version and evolution to the new features. Not to mention their amazing attitude to the customers. To conclude, a bit better PR would make wonders here. Sometimes we need just to listen to our users even that we don't agree with them. Again one of the characteristics of professional product behavior, like it or not. Janko -- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
Re: [Pharo-project] About (backwards) Compatibility
Hi Esteban, I understand and support the cleanness focus, this is why Pharo actually seems very promising for the future. Just that cleaning should be gradual, in a sense that while introducing new you keep an old but clearly marked as obsolete for a, say, year or two. So that user base have a time to adapt to the new change. I think if you put the old FD in a ObsoleteFileDirectory package and load it by default for a year, then not anymore, this will certainly ease fears of some of us. Don't count me on this group, but I understand the guys, why don't like an approach you are going. Because it is user unfriendly even that a solution seems to be simple. Cleanness won't be hurt by that! Best regards Janko Dne 15. 12. 2012 12:49, piše Esteban Lorenzano: > Let me explain this once again: we are not "backward compatibility > killer maniacs" :) > We prefer to keep backward compatibility whenever is possible, but we > don't put it as a top priority: if we find room to improve, we do it. > > but, since we take responsibility for all the packages loaded in what we > call "pharo", we rather prefer not to have duplicates, so we achieve one > of our goal (cleanness) while also focussing out effort. > > I'm sorry if that annoys some of you time to time, but that's the way to > improve: to change. > > Also... I think you are overreacting, in pharo 2.0 we just introduced > three big changes (visible to users): FS, SystemAnnouncer (who has, btw, > same API than old SystemChangeNotifier) and Nautilus... that's all. All > the other is infrastructure and shouldn't be a problem for anyone. > > Esteban > > On Dec 15, 2012, at 12:40 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <mailto:esteba...@gmail.com>> wrote: > >> Janko, >> that's already done (since ever), and FD is provided in two different >> ways: in the graveyard is the old FD package (loadable into pharo >> 2.0) http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~Pharo/Graveyard20 , and also Camillo >> made a FD wrapper to FS... >> >> Esteban >> >> On Dec 15, 2012, at 12:31 PM, Janko Mivšek > <mailto:janko.miv...@eranova.si>> wrote: >> >>> Dne 15. 12. 2012 12:12, piše Igor Stasenko: >>>> On 15 December 2012 10:27, Janko Mivšek >>> <mailto:janko.miv...@eranova.si>> wrote: >>> >>>>> Is there any technical reason that the old FileDirectory stuff doesn't >>>>> stay and work in parallel to a new FileSystem? Maybe in some package >>>>> marked obsolete. Both use the same plugin and the same primitives, so >>>>> where is the problem? >>> >>>> Yes, there's one big reason: maintainability. And manpower. >>>> Who would like to maintain FD? Any takers? >>> >>> Gain with a (in this case very small) bit of manpower to ease upgrade to >>> new FS by providing existing FD for a while outweighs the loss by not >>> doing that. As a professional organization providing a professional >>> product Pharo should think rather that way. >>> >>> Janko >>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> I also think that for a professionally viable product a clear migration >>>>> path should be provided. Progress yes, but user base must have a >>>>> guidance how to slowly migrate to the new functionality. If possible >>>>> with some automated procedure to migrate our code. >>>>> >>>>> In case of FileSystem/FileDirectory, this is certainly quite a big >>>>> change and will break a lot of code. Be sure therefore that you >>>>> guide us >>>>> as much as possible, otherwise there is a danger to loose a lot of user >>>>> base behind. >>>>> >>>> But there is a well-written documentation of FS. >>>> I wonder, if there's any documentation for FileDirectory ever existed. >>>> >>>>> Best regards >>>>> Janko >>>>> >>>>> Dne 15. 12. 2012 08:55, piše Stéphane Ducasse: >>>>>> Chris >>>>>> >>>>>> Could you give us a break pleaseee? >>>>>> We are spending all our energy to build a better system that other >>>>>> people can use to make a living. >>>>>> May be we should just create a system for having fun in our teams? >>>>>> Because at the end of the day >>>>>> we just need to produce ideas and some prototypes (not even build >>>>>> them as researchers). >>>>>> >>
Re: [Pharo-project] About (backwards) Compatibility
Dne 15. 12. 2012 12:12, piše Igor Stasenko: > On 15 December 2012 10:27, Janko Mivšek wrote: >> Is there any technical reason that the old FileDirectory stuff doesn't >> stay and work in parallel to a new FileSystem? Maybe in some package >> marked obsolete. Both use the same plugin and the same primitives, so >> where is the problem? > Yes, there's one big reason: maintainability. And manpower. > Who would like to maintain FD? Any takers? Gain with a (in this case very small) bit of manpower to ease upgrade to new FS by providing existing FD for a while outweighs the loss by not doing that. As a professional organization providing a professional product Pharo should think rather that way. Janko > >> >> I also think that for a professionally viable product a clear migration >> path should be provided. Progress yes, but user base must have a >> guidance how to slowly migrate to the new functionality. If possible >> with some automated procedure to migrate our code. >> >> In case of FileSystem/FileDirectory, this is certainly quite a big >> change and will break a lot of code. Be sure therefore that you guide us >> as much as possible, otherwise there is a danger to loose a lot of user >> base behind. >> > But there is a well-written documentation of FS. > I wonder, if there's any documentation for FileDirectory ever existed. > >> Best regards >> Janko >> >> Dne 15. 12. 2012 08:55, piše Stéphane Ducasse: >>> Chris >>> >>> Could you give us a break pleaseee? >>> We are spending all our energy to build a better system that other people >>> can use to make a living. >>> May be we should just create a system for having fun in our teams? Because >>> at the end of the day >>> we just need to produce ideas and some prototypes (not even build them as >>> researchers). >>> >>> I really think that there are still plenty of places where the system is >>> not good. If you disagree then you may want to >>> spend more time trying to extend it and build something real with it. (Here >>> this is the place where you should react and prove >>> to the world that you are a cool entrepreneur) ;D >>> >>> Now nobody force you to: >>> - be in this mailing-list (you are welcome here but can we avoid this >>> kind of endless useless discussions) or >>> phrase your points with code snippet that can help the system. >>> >>> - use pharo in fact you are not using it so you are living in an >>> happy world. So this is perfect. >>> >>> Did you read the Pharo motto? >>> >>> Stef >>> >>> >>> On Dec 14, 2012, at 5:55 PM, Chris Muller wrote: >>> >>>> I'm tired of talking about this but I just can't let this go.. I >>>> don't know if its just romantic, starry-eyed mountain climbers or >>>> intentional false-propaganda but... confusion reigns here! :) This >>>> example is bunk. >>>> >>>> Sean chose a method in ZipDirectoryMember written by Ned Konz in 2002 >>>> which, for whatever reason, is admittedly not great code but that's >>>> not the point -- Sean is trying to use this example to demonstrate how >>>> using FileSystem will let you "scale new heights" over FileDirectory. >>>> The real equivalent to what Sean wrote is: >>>> >>>> "FileDirectory" >>>> localFileName: aString >>>>| file | >>>>super localFileName: aString. >>>>file := FileDirectory directoryEntryFor: aString. >>>>file exists ifFalse: [ ^ self ]. >>>>self modifiedAt: file entry modificationTime. >>>> >>>> "FileSystem" >>>> localFileName: aString >>>>| file | >>>>super localFileName: aString. >>>>file := aString asFileName. >>>>file exists ifFalse: [ ^ self ]. >>>>self modifiedAt: file entry modificationTime. >>>> >>>> A, I've broken all my systems but look how I'm scaling new heights >>>> with FileSystem! (not!) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 10:39 PM, Sean P. DeNigris >>>> wrote: >>>>> Chris Muller-4 wrote >>>>>> While someone in the Pharo >>>>>> community said FileSystem over FileDirectory is "huge"
Re: [Pharo-project] About (backwards) Compatibility
Hi guys, Is there any technical reason that the old FileDirectory stuff doesn't stay and work in parallel to a new FileSystem? Maybe in some package marked obsolete. Both use the same plugin and the same primitives, so where is the problem? I also think that for a professionally viable product a clear migration path should be provided. Progress yes, but user base must have a guidance how to slowly migrate to the new functionality. If possible with some automated procedure to migrate our code. In case of FileSystem/FileDirectory, this is certainly quite a big change and will break a lot of code. Be sure therefore that you guide us as much as possible, otherwise there is a danger to loose a lot of user base behind. Best regards Janko Dne 15. 12. 2012 08:55, piše Stéphane Ducasse: > Chris > > Could you give us a break pleaseee? > We are spending all our energy to build a better system that other people can > use to make a living. > May be we should just create a system for having fun in our teams? Because at > the end of the day > we just need to produce ideas and some prototypes (not even build them as > researchers). > > I really think that there are still plenty of places where the system is not > good. If you disagree then you may want to > spend more time trying to extend it and build something real with it. (Here > this is the place where you should react and prove > to the world that you are a cool entrepreneur) ;D > > Now nobody force you to: > - be in this mailing-list (you are welcome here but can we avoid this > kind of endless useless discussions) or > phrase your points with code snippet that can help the system. > > - use pharo in fact you are not using it so you are living in an happy > world. So this is perfect. > > Did you read the Pharo motto? > > Stef > > > On Dec 14, 2012, at 5:55 PM, Chris Muller wrote: > >> I'm tired of talking about this but I just can't let this go.. I >> don't know if its just romantic, starry-eyed mountain climbers or >> intentional false-propaganda but... confusion reigns here! :) This >> example is bunk. >> >> Sean chose a method in ZipDirectoryMember written by Ned Konz in 2002 >> which, for whatever reason, is admittedly not great code but that's >> not the point -- Sean is trying to use this example to demonstrate how >> using FileSystem will let you "scale new heights" over FileDirectory. >> The real equivalent to what Sean wrote is: >> >> "FileDirectory" >> localFileName: aString >>| file | >>super localFileName: aString. >>file := FileDirectory directoryEntryFor: aString. >>file exists ifFalse: [ ^ self ]. >>self modifiedAt: file entry modificationTime. >> >> "FileSystem" >> localFileName: aString >>| file | >>super localFileName: aString. >>file := aString asFileName. >>file exists ifFalse: [ ^ self ]. >>self modifiedAt: file entry modificationTime. >> >> A, I've broken all my systems but look how I'm scaling new heights >> with FileSystem! (not!) >> >> >> >> On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 10:39 PM, Sean P. DeNigris >> wrote: >>> Chris Muller-4 wrote >>>> While someone in the Pharo >>>> community said FileSystem over FileDirectory is "huge", I see it as an >>>> incremental API change >>> >>> Can you still say that after reading >>> http://forum.world.st/The-Magic-of-FileSystem-td4635471.html ?! >>> >>> FileSystem has hugely decremented the number of times I've wanted to throw >>> my computer at a wall ;) FileDirectory occurred to me like graffiti painted >>> on a great work of art. >>> >>> Multiply the above by every dark corner of the system and you have the >>> barrier to the next stage of evolution. For myself, every time I've embarked >>> on a bold new idea for our IDE, after getting bogged down in a mess of >>> objects - like FileDirectory et al, or Paragraph and friends, or Morphic >>> layout objects, and on and on - I reached a point where I was not willing to >>> put in the tremendous effort required to understand the system (if even >>> possible). And because few of the design decisions are documented, I didn't >>> know how to clean things without breaking them. So, I gave up and just went >>> back to the standard tools. >>> >>> I hate to keep repeating myself, but the Pharo manifesto is very clear, and >>> makes these types of arguments moot: >>> - Better for the better >>> - Beauty to learn from >>> - Not backward compatible >>> - Clean, lean and fast >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Sean -- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
Re: [Pharo-project] Aida with Realtime (WebSockets) support released
Dne 02. 11. 2012 18:52, piše Esteban A. Maringolo:
>>> The demo site doesn't seem to work, the buttons are disabled, but I
>>> believe
>>> you it works! :)
>> Which browser and which version do you use? Do you have in red a warning
>> that your browser is not supported?
>>
>> I need to catch that problem which seems to happen on not-recent
>> WebSocket enabled browsers, so your info will be very valuable.
> Google Chrome Version 22.0.1229.94 m, Windows 7 Professional
>
> Looking at the developer console, there is a websocket created, but with
> status 101 (pending)
Esteban, can reload the page (to refresh JS) and try again?
I namely improved detection of WebSocket if it is really open. You can
also open Chrome devtools to see if button press sends WebSockets
message or plain Ajax one. Reload a page, click WebSocket in footer of
devtools (tab Network), then on the left click the only choice websocket
/aidasession and you'll see all WS messages sent so far.
Best regards
Janko
>
> This is the HAR for the connection:
>
> {
> "startedDateTime": "2012-11-02T17:50:17.319Z",
> "time": -1,
> "request": {
> "method": "GET",
> "url":
> "ws://demo.aidaweb.si/aidasession/websocket?pageurl=/demos?view=realtime",
> "httpVersion": "HTTP/1.1",
> "headers": [
> {
> "name": "Origin",
> "value": "http://demo.aidaweb.si";
> },
> {
> "name": "Connection",
> "value": "Upgrade"
> },
> {
> "name": "Sec-WebSocket-Extensions",
> "value": "x-webkit-deflate-frame"
> },
> {
> "name": "Host",
> "value": "demo.aidaweb.si"
> },
> {
> "name": "Sec-WebSocket-Key",
> "value": "fDT6RMiJRCTBSMOQlAAzfw=="
> },
> {
> "name": "Upgrade",
> "value": "websocket"
> },
> {
> "name": "Sec-WebSocket-Version",
> "value": "13"
> }
> ],
> "queryString": [
> {
> "name": "pageurl",
> "value": "/demos"
> }
> ],
> "cookies": [],
> "headersSize": 86,
> "bodySize": 0
> },
> "response": {
> "status": 101,
> "statusText": "WebSocket Protocol Handshake",
> "httpVersion": "HTTP/1.1",
> "headers": [
> {
> "name": "Date",
> "value": "Fri, 02 Nov 2012 18:50:19 GMT"
> },
> {
> "name": "Connection",
> "value": "Upgrade"
> },
> {
> "name": "Content-Length",
> "value": "0"
> },
> {
> "name": "Server",
> "value": "Swazoo 2.3 Smalltalk Web Server"
> },
> {
> "name": "Upgrade",
> "value": "websocket"
> },
> {
> "name": "Sec-WebSocket-Accept",
> "value": "JQglwpGvhMsAoUM2dc1d1GG3Dt0="
> }
> ],
> "cookies": [],
> "content": {
> "size": 0,
> "compression": 0
> },
> "redirectURL": "",
> "headersSize": 13,
> "bodySize": 0
> },
> "cache": {},
> "timings": {
> "blocked": 0,
> "dns": -1,
> "connect": -1,
> "send": -1,
> "wait": -1,
> "receive": -1,
> "ssl": -1
> },
> "pageref": "page_1"
> }
>
>
> Regards!
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://forum.world.st/Aida-with-Realtime-WebSockets-support-released-tp4653512p4653793.html
> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
--
Janko Mivšek
Aida/Web
Smalltalk Web Application Server
http://www.aidaweb.si
Re: [Pharo-project] Aida with Realtime (WebSockets) support released
Hola Esteban, Dne 02. 11. 2012 13:50, piše Esteban A. Maringolo: > Thanks Janko. > > The demo site doesn't seem to work, the buttons are disabled, but I believe > you it works! :) Which browser and which version do you use? Do you have in red a warning that your browser is not supported? I need to catch that problem which seems to happen on not-recent WebSocket enabled browsers, so your info will be very valuable. > What's the relation between AIDA/Swazoo Websockets and Sven's > implementation? To my knowledge not related except that both should implement the same RFC version of the standard. And Zinc HTTP client should work with Swazoo server over WebSockets. Also, Swazoo has a WebSocket implementation for two years already, recently was just upgraded to the last RFC version. Best regards Janko -- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
[Pharo-project] Aida with Realtime (WebSockets) support released
Dear Smalltalkers, I think it can be safely claimed that Aida/Web is a first Smalltalk web framework, even more, one of the first frameworks at all to integrate HTML5 WebSockets for so called realtime web apps. Realtime in sense that values on the page are updated immediately when value changes on the server, without needing to manually reload a page. You can see that in action from WebSocket-capable browsers (latest Firefox and Chrome) if you open in two browsers the online Aida realtime counter demo, click buttons on one and observe changes instantly in both browsers: http://demo.aidaweb.si/demos?view=realtime And how easy is using real-time in your code? See the simplified code of above demo: WebDemoApp>>viewRealtime | e counterElement | self enableRealtime. counterElement := e add: self counterElement. (e addButtonText: ' Decrement ') noSubmit; onClickDo: [self observee decCounter]. (e addButtonText: ' Increment ') noSubmit; onClickDo: [self observee incCounter]. self observee onChangeDo: [counterElement update] on: counterElement app: self. self add: e. WebDemoApp>>counterElement | e | e := WebElement newSpan. e style: 'font-size: 40px'. e addText: self observee counter printString. ^e To describe this code a bit: you first enable realtime for this view of demo App. Element on the webpage to update in realtime must be created in a separate method (#counterElement). After buttons for increment and decrement we come to the main part - registering the block to execute on every change of domain object. Calling simply #update to the counter element is enough to be updated on all browsers which currently observe that counter demo. How this works? Behind the scenes a so called realtime channel is open between browser and Aida server. This WebSocket based channel is bidirectional and full-duplex, meaning that Aida can send back to the browser a message at any time. In above case a command to update the counter element is sent back to all browsers immediately after counter is changed. New Aida 6.5 Interim release is released for Squeak, Pharo and VisualWorks and available from usual places. See http://www.aidaweb.si for more. Everyone is welcome to try it and come with suggestions how to use this new feature, how to improve it, Further read: http://www.aidaweb.si/websocket%20support http://www.swazoo.org/websocket Best regards Janko -- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
[Pharo-project] [ANN] Swazoo beta3 with final WebSockets released
Dear all, Here is hopefully last beta for Swazoo 2.3 with WebSockets upgraded to final RFC. Thanks to Hans-Martin Mosner :) You can find it with Squeak/Pharo on SqueakSource: http://www.squeaksource.com /MetacelloRepository/ConfigurationOfSwazoo2 http://www.squeaksource.com/Swazoo/Swazoo-2.3beta3.0.mcz and for VisualWorks in Public Store. >From release comment: Swazoo 2.3 beta3 release, same as on Squeak/Pharo 1. WebSockets protocol upgraded to a final RFC thanks to Hans-Martin Mosner 2. IP blacklising and whitelisting introduced, add IP address patterns to collections in SwazooServer singleton ipBlacklist or ipWhiteList - urlBlacklist added, to filter by url patterns - ipAllowedList added, for kind of 'root' IPs, always allowed access 3. more: - SwazooServer instvar #other introduced, #watchdog removed and moved to #other - SpTimestamp extended with #millisecond method - HTTPRequest printOn: for POSTs prints postdata or entity body too - Collection count: added on VW, for Squeak/Pharo compatibility 2. pathces: - HTTPConnection close didn't terminate the loop process - SwazooWebSocket asByteArray:, implemented here for portability - Sport patch: SpAbstractSocketReadRequest #close missing - HTTPRequest printOn: prints AJAX for such requests - HTTPConnection interact raises error for non OsErrors (VW specific!) - extension: Collection #count: added, for compatibility with Squeak/Pharo - HTTPConnection getAndDispatchMessages don't close http10 with keepAlive! - SwazooStream anyDataReady ignore any exception when #fillBuffer - SwazooURI proper parsing of protocol, host and port - patch: HTTPRequest printOn: - SwazooServer -- stop, stops all instances of HTTPServer, just for sure -- category private-wathcdog removed - FileResponse printEntityOn: binary - SpFileStream binary, nextAvailable - Collection count: added - patch: HTTPConnection close nils self server, nextPutError ignores any further error - HTTPConnection produceResponseFor: exception catching removed, there is another one upper in #interact anyway Best regards Janko -- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
Re: [Pharo-project] A trend and an unfair comparison about js everywhere
Dne 16. 10. 2012 20:43, piše Igor Stasenko: > IMO, the fundamental difference between personal computer apps, that > they rely on capabilities of your personal computer. While web-apps, > obviously not. > Web-apps mainly relocating the computation onto another computer, > effectively making your personal one to serve as a remote (even if > media-rich) terminal, connected to mainframe. > > Perhaps web was the catalyst for emergence of cloud-computing. But > conceptually, cloud computing is completely orthogonal to 'web', it is > just turning computing power into easily accessible commodity. > Web, of course, can enjoy exploiting this new approach, as well as any > others too. Nowadays web apps are more and more autonomous and client-centric, connecting not just to one server but *many* different services and resources somewhere from the cloud *at once*. Such app is therefore not server-centric anymore but client-centric, as this article explains nicely: Why The Future Of Software And Apps Is Serverless http://www.readwriteweb.com/cloud/2012/10/why-the-future-of-software-and-apps-is-serverless.php Where Smalltalk can find its place in such future? 1. Providing services from the cloud (that's why all cloud related Smalltalk initiatives needs to be supported) 2. Client-centric web apps (that's why Amber and related initiatives are so important) Note also that classic Smalltalk environments like Pharo are still useful and needed in both cases, because we can *develop* both cloud services and client web apps on classic environments with their superior tools, but *deploy* them both in cloud (headless) and on the client (like by Amber generating/emitting JS code to the client). Best regards Janko -- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
Re: [Pharo-project] A trend and an unfair comparison about js everywhere
Dne 16. 10. 2012 12:10, piše dimitris chloupis: > I dont have the habbit of making general claims or expressing general > opinion when it come to coding which is a practical field. > > My 2 areas of interest is sound synthesis and graphics. Apple has > promised html5 as the replacement to flash technology. Flash is mainly a > desktop technology masked as web technology . Html5 is still extremely > slow, at least some comparison I have tried. Webgl is partially > supported and very much slow still. Library wise for graphics I could > find maybe 4, 5 libraries to work with Javascript. Javascript is a > programming language like anything else but many of the technologies I > need to learn like DOM , XML , hmtl etc look weird , ugly and not that > useful compared to my experience with for example morphic or desktop gui > and graphic libraries. I know a few web developers they do complain a > lot about the state of web technology in general and the problems that > have to deal with. > > Especially in graphics and audio field, library wise desktop and the web > are like night and day. > > And all that for js , which is the good case as soon as we enter php and > drupal territory the horror stories just explode. I had my share of bad > experiences , C++ MFC was also a nightmare to manage but back then > things coding wise were not as complex they are today. I brought > facebook as an example because not talking about facebook while talking > about web is like talking about OS and not talking about windows. > > I have not any doubts that a capable coder will be able to make an > exceptional good web application. Afterall I use one , dropbox , and I > just would not want to live without it because it safe guards all my > work documents. So my point was not that web development is not good, or > that is not that future. My point is that with the state of web > libraries, we will see more and more desktop languages and libraries > penetrating the web (python and webgl for example) to that extend that > web will be nothing more than extension of desktop development. If some > choose to state that as web development , thats great for them , its not > for me. > > When I see for example smalltalk , I see a language that is pretty much > unknown yet its the language that is the most copied from by any kind of > technology. Innovative products don't become popular but they do drive > the future behind the curtains. Popular products tend to take all the > credit but contribute almost nothing. > > My only concern is if we try to make smalltalk fit the style of the web, > wont that mean that we compromise the quality of smalltalk libraries ? > If we try to make desktop comply with web standards wont that lower the > bar ? Would not be much better if we just port well proven desktop > technologies to the web as it is already hapenning ( see WebGL) ? > > I dont have a doubt that HMTL5 will have a long future . I dont have a > doubt that Web technology will improve , JS for example has come a long > way. I do think already web development is overtaken by desktop > development in many fields, mainly because its not prudent to just throw > to the bin all those well proven desktop technologies. We just make sure > they work in browser. > > I continue learning JS (amber too) and web technologies and I hope for > the best. I only wanted to present a point of view that is rarely seen > when someone talks about the web and . I Feel I am not the only one > frustrated with the direction web is taking, its not an infancy problem > its a problem of very bad foundation and coding style. Its something I > experienced a lot while coding in C++ and Java. It may be just me and I > dont mind if someone will disagree with me. > > I am also happy that smalltalk creates its own web libraries that do > follow closely the standards set by the language itself. I only hope > that continues. This is exactly what we should IMHO continue to do. That is, to cultivate the wild web with Smalltalk elegance and beauty :) Best regards Janko > > > > *From:* Janko Mivšek > *To:* Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr > *Cc:* Aida/Web general discussion list > *Sent:* Tuesday, 16 October 2012, 12:29 > *Subject:* Re: [Pharo-project] A trend and an unfair comparison about js > everywhere > > Hi Dimitris, > > I wont judge the success of the web approach just by few failed > attempts, (and by Facebook :). Web technologies certainly have a > potential to replace GUI ones on the desktop and became an universal UI > technology. Universal in the sense that it run everywhere, on all > platforms, you don't need to care about
Re: [Pharo-project] A trend and an unfair comparison about js everywhere
.inria.fr > *Sent:* Monday, 15 October 2012, 23:02 > *Subject:* [Pharo-project] A trend and an unfair comparison about js > everywhere > > Hi guys, > > all comparisons are unfair I know but this is only to make you guy aware > of this (please ignore if you're already). > > Here is the thing: > > The Jeff Bezos' Electricity Metaphor: > http://www.ted.com/talks/jeff_bezos_on_the_next_web_innovation.html > > Makes (probably) any smalltalker remember the Alan Kay's talk about > having in the internet an IP for every object and spectacular computer > science ideas like that. > > The js everywhere trend makes a lot of sense. Once it achieves critical > mass it might tempt intel and friends to do some hardware accelerator > for js VM's. Who knows. We have a long way to go but, in the meantime, > all js staked frameworks make a lot of sense and WILL get traction > because of that. Example: > > http://www.wakanda.org/ > > A talk here: > https://vimeo.com/31603156 > > So.. the unfair question here would be: > > What we'll have to match that competitiveness? > > sebastian > > o/ > > PS: Pharo + WebSockets + Amber sounds in that line doesn't? > > > -- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
Re: [Pharo-project] A trend and an unfair comparison about js everywhere
Here we have IMHO an advantage and opportunity with Smalltalk for the web apps: *JavaScript is very hard for complex apps*. For the reasons others already expressed: lack of version control, strange errors, inadequate debugging, etc. That's why they are all that preprocessors like CoffeeScript and new MS TypeScript out there - to ease development and specially maintenance of any bit more complex JS web app. So, Aida plan is to use Amber to *emit* JavaScript code to the client while still preserve all the power and beauty of developing in classical Smalltalk environment: browsers, debuggers, inspectors, version control etc. And specially to develop and long-term maintain very complex web apps, which is currently near to impossible in plain JavaScript. Such Aida webapp will be still deployed to the server but with emitting JS to the client the app will actually run quite autonomous on the client, with just syncing data changes back to the server, while all UI interactions will happen locally on the client. Another Aida plan is to bring to the web all that Smalltalk has in 80's already on UI front: MVC, dependency mechanism with real-time updating all views, which are dependent on some data change, etc. And how MVC GUI architecture ideas from 80's look like? Read from in this book (which is from 90's actually): Smalltalk An Introduction to Application Development using VisualWorks http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr/FreeBooks/HopkinsHoran/HopkinsHoran.pdf p.287: The Dependency Mechanism p.312: Introduction to Models, Views and Controllers Best regards Janko Dne 16. 10. 2012 02:43, piše blake: > I've used Wakanda, WaveMaker and Sencha and a number of other one-stop > solutions and found them unsatisfactory for a variety of reasons. > > Wakanda requires you to use a particular DB (NoSQL?) and is rigid > about how you can lay out the tables. > > I remember, with WaveMaker, all the code ended up looking like: > > someObject.someOtherObject.yetAnotherObject.ownedObject.property.function() > = > someObject.someOtherObject.yetAnotherObject.ownedObject.property.differentFunction() > * 0.5 > > The common feature these tools tend to have, in exchange for very > slick interfaces for putting together CRUD apps is a near total lack > of integration for all the things you come to expect as a modern > developer: version control and other collaboration tools, test suites, > refactoring, etc. > > But they definitely have the gee-whiz factor going for them. > > -- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
Re: [Pharo-project] A trend and an unfair comparison about js everywhere
> So.. the unfair question here would be: > > What we'll have to match that competitiveness? Aida/Web :) Watch few more months for Smalltalk MVC revival on the web app front-end with Aida, as so many JavaScript frameworks are doing right now (Backbone, Ember, Knockout, Angular, etc. etc.). And in real-time (WebSocket enabled)... A big plus over JS: component based! Janko Dne 15. 10. 2012 22:02, piše sebast...@flowingconcept.com: > Hi guys, > > all comparisons are unfair I know but this is only to make you guy aware of > this (please ignore if you're already). > > Here is the thing: > > The Jeff Bezos' Electricity Metaphor: > http://www.ted.com/talks/jeff_bezos_on_the_next_web_innovation.html > > Makes (probably) any smalltalker remember the Alan Kay's talk about having in > the internet an IP for every object and spectacular computer science ideas > like that. > > The js everywhere trend makes a lot of sense. Once it achieves critical mass > it might tempt intel and friends to do some hardware accelerator for js VM's. > Who knows. We have a long way to go but, in the meantime, all js staked > frameworks make a lot of sense and WILL get traction because of that. Example: > > http://www.wakanda.org/ > > A talk here: > https://vimeo.com/31603156 > > So.. the unfair question here would be: > > What we'll have to match that competitiveness? > > sebastian > > o/ > > PS: Pharo + WebSockets + Amber sounds in that line doesn't? > > -- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
Re: [Pharo-project] [ANN] Phobos
Dne 10. 10. 2012 14:15, piše Pavel Krivanek: >> About XUL, what is your impression about its future and, do you plan >> some replacement for it in the future, maybe with full HTML5, Amber >> based maybe? > > XUL not fulfilled the expectations that have been inserted into it. > The only big vendor that supports it is Mozilla. A the role of native > non-web applications will certainly gradually decrease. So I have long > wondered if I should devote time to this project. > But XULRunner is actively developed and certainly in the long term > will also. It is good enough for our needs and it is very close to the > web development so possible future switch to HTML5 or something > similar would be natural. From this point it is maybe better time > investition than native UI bindings. It seems Mozilla is already actively working and proposing new HTML5 APIs like this one added to just released Firefox 16 : Getting started with making Web Apps https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Apps/Getting_Started After all that HTML5 infrastructure will be in-place, they will IMHO provide a painless transition from XUL as well. Best regards Janko -- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
Re: [Pharo-project] [ANN] Phobos
Ahoj Pavel, Very impressive indeed! I specially like WebSocket based communication between UI and image. WebSockets as two way full-duplex communication betwe web client and server and as upgrade of plain HTTP connection is certainly the future for web apps, specially those with tightly coupled web clients and servers. About XUL, what is your impression about its future and, do you plan some replacement for it in the future, maybe with full HTML5, Amber based maybe? Best regads Janko Dne 09. 10. 2012 21:48, piše Pavel Krivanek: > Hi all, > > I would like to introduce you Phobos - the XULRunner based Smalltalk > framework for development of native GUI with standard look&feel for > Linux, Mac OS X and Windows. > > It is based on Zinc, WebSockets and Seaside continuations. For more > information including more screenshots see the project page: > > http://code.google.com/p/phobos-framework/ > > You should pay attentions to FAQ too: > http://code.google.com/p/phobos-framework/wiki/FAQ > > Phobos has Seaside-like components and rendering style, can combine > XUL with HTML or SVG, supports printing etc. > > Cheers, > -- Pavel > -- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
Re: [Pharo-project] [Seaside] Re: [Metacello] What is the plan with Pharo changes?
Hi Dale, Dne 04. 08. 2012 07:31, piše Dale Henrichs: > The bigger problem is that I have to have a code base that runs on multiple > platforms while being maintainable, so a "port" to Pharo-2.0 is only a > starting point. In the case of FileTree, which is the real bottleneck there's > a lot code that is written against the FileDirectory API, so there will need > to be significant work to find a way to keep a common code base a much > tougher problem, than "just getting it working", it can be solved with time, > but I didn't budget time for an emergency rewrite of FileTree ... today. Just FYI, there is a Sport portability library and by using Sport's SpFilename you have an instantly portable file support over quite a dozen Smalltalks. So, if someone adapt Sport to a new Pharo 2.0 filesystem first .. Best regards Janko -- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
Re: [Pharo-project] Fwd: [Pharo-users] Adding Websocket support to Zinc
Dne 31. 07. 2012 22:18, piše Frank Shearar: > I'm always happy with multiple, competing implementations of things - > I was under the impression that Andreas Raab's WebClient also supports > WebSockets? Swazoo 2.3 beta web server also uses WebSockets and we are currently upgrading it to the latest WebSocket version. And WebSockets are used by default in Aida for a while when visitor uses WebSocket enabled browser. It is certainly quite an an advantage in speed and responsibility of a web app if WebSockets are used for transport mechanism. Not to mention the out-of-the shelf realtime web app support, which are now really simple with WebSockets. By real-time I mean that content of the webpage is updated immediately when some outside even occured, like new twit comes. Yes, Twitter is one of the first real-time web apps around. Best regards Janko -- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
[Pharo-project] Is Pharo a Smalltalk or Smalltalk inspired? (was I added a german wikipedia article on pharo)
Hi guys, On 05. 07. 2012 11:07, Marcus Denker wrote: > On Jul 5, 2012, at 10:59 AM, Helene Bilbo wrote: >> And i ask, >> because the first line on the Pharo homepage says it’s: >> "Smalltalk-inspired“. > The idea is that if Pharo is Smalltak, it will always be Smalltalk. We can > not move > on. If it is Smalltalk Inspired, we can take the *ideas* behind Smalltalk and > seriously > move forward. > > E.g. take the Slots. Smalltalk has no first class Slots, Pharo will. If Pharo > would *be* Smalltalk > it could not. Why not rather move all Smalltalk forward instead? Good ideas from Pharo should be communicated to other Smalltalks. And vice versa - good ideas from other Smalltalks should be studied and put in Pharo. But Pharo should stay Smalltalk, not 'Smalltalk inspired'. Please, don't divide Smalltalk community but act as much as possible in joint spirit! Which of course doesn't mean that moving forward is necessary. And I also don't see why you cannot move forward and stay Smalltalk? Certainly not from a Slots example. If Pharo will try to distance from Smalltalk rather than contribute and improve it, I'm sure many of us will rethink if Pharo is worth supporting or not. Best regards Janko -- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
Re: [Pharo-project] renggli mirror created on smalltalkhub
Hi guys, I volunteer for replicate hosting of basic community infractructure like forthcomming SmalltalkHub on my server located at Hetzner in Germany. Going just recently through old server crash and being able to restore main functionality back on new server in few hours, you can expect for me to have some experience running with all needed reliability and high availability in mind. By the way, dedicated server at Hetzner costs me just 50 EUR/month, and this is 4 core 16GB RAM 2x3TB disk machine. Prices are therefore so low that everyone can afford such a server now, ESUG and/or Pharo consortium at least :) Best regards Janko On 04. 07. 2012 10:23, Stéphane Ducasse wrote: > > On Jul 4, 2012, at 9:28 AM, p...@highoctane.be wrote: > >> There must be a business behind all this to take care of the funding and the >> daily operations. >> >> Is the consortium going to be taking care of these aspects? > > It is already as a fireman. > > Esteban is payed by INRIA for helping to set up the consortium and he is > losing time > with such issues. > > Indeed we should think about how to replicate information. > About smalltalkHub one deal was that INRIA will host it and replicate on > three hosts. > Now since smalltalkHub was delayed for more than 8 months the people changed > agenda. > > We will check that again with nicolas and christophe because right now it is > hosted at object fusion. > Now we were thinking that ESUG could help there because ESUG has also several > servers to run and > marcus does not have the time to deal with multiple and different servers. So > one central one to manage > ESUG and SmalltalkHub would make sense but nothing was acted so far. > > > Stef > > > >> >> Phil >> >> 2012/7/4 Torsten Bergmann >> >> Norbert wrote: >>> Ok, nothing to do here. Thank you, Captain Hindsight! >> >> While I enjoy your humor and politeness on one side I really >> doubt that there is nothing to do here. >> >> How often do we face the outage of SqS. And now a private >> server is yet again gone without an easy restore/access to >> the backup. It's nice that we can all check our caches to >> find the mcz's - but is this the backup strategy to go for >> the future? >> >> I provided the ConfigurationBrowser in Pharo to easily load >> Metacello packages directly from within the image and spend >> a lot of time checking appropriate configs for the various >> Pharo versions. On one side we invest in making it easier >> for people to load packages on the other side it often >> did not work due to this brickle hosting we currently have. >> >> Don't we need a serious discussion and actions on how >> to get a reliable infrastructure with official mirrors? >> >> By providing a prebuilt SqueakSource in the past [1] I hoped >> the SqS situation will get better when people may setup own >> servers and we have more and more mirrors on the net. It did >> not happen. We now know that SqS is the "old way". >> >> We currently face decisions what servers to use (SS3, SmalltalkHub, ...) >> see issue #6093 [2] >> >> Now we move to SS3 and SmalltalkHub. Can we answer the question >> how reliable they are? >> >> I like SmalltalkHub a lot. But still it is centralized and >> if it is down it is down for all. Dont we need answers to the >> question how independent our infrastructure will be in the future? >> If it is backuped, mirrored or restorable? >> >> Dale proposed mirroring for Metacello [3]. We also have filetree [4] >> for directory-based Monticello packages enabling the use of Git, >> SVN, ... allowing us to use more reliable infrastructure like GitHub, ... >> Should we care? >> >> But maybe I should shut up and wait until someone reboots >> Squeaksource again (which is down today yet again) >> >> Bye >> T. >> >> [1] http://astares.blogspot.de/2005/12/squeaksource-server-image.html >> [1] http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=6093 >> [2] http://code.google.com/p/metacello/issues/detail?id=152 >> [3] https://github.com/dalehenrich/filetree >> >> >> >> >> > > > -- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
Re: [Pharo-project] OpenID/OAuth library (was SSO - CAS Client in Smalltalk ?)
Dne 15. 05. 2012 16:41, piše Yanni Chiu: > On 15/05/12 3:00 AM, Janko Mivšek wrote: >> Dne 15. 05. 2012 00:01, piše Stéphane Ducasse: >> >>>> Just FYI, me and Cloudfork guys are just finishing the OpenID 2.0/OAuth >>>> 2.0 support for Iliad and Aida, based on Cloudfork SSO [1]. On Pharo >>>> and >>>> VW. On Pharo Zync with Zodiak SSL is used. Current goal is to develop a >>>> Google Docs API support. >>> is the library available as a library? I mean not linked to aida or >>> iliad? >> Idea actually is to have WebCloudSSO library as independent as possible, >> but not without some web server/web framework, because OpenID/OAuth rely >> heavily on HTTP redirects. >> >> WebCloudSSO library currently works on Aida, now I'll start adapting it >> to Iliad, later someone can adapt it to Seaside or even to plain web >> server like Zync. Maybe it will even come under Cloudfork trademark at >> the end, we will see. Cloudfork otherwise already have a Seaside OpenID >> example. > Have I understood this right? You started with CloudforkSSO, "ported" it > to Iliad and Aida (i.e. WebCloudSSO), and in future WebCloudSSO may > merge back into CloudforkSSO. Was it just easier/faster to do it this > way, rather than split the Seaside dependent parts out of CloudforkSSO? WebCloudSSO uses and extends a bit updated original Cloudfork. I therefore didn't replace it. Separate package was chosen to more freely experiment and add OpenID/OAuth functionality to Aida and Iliad, now when WebCloudSSO stabilises, it is time to propose a merge back to Cloudfork. My idea and proposal is to have one "trademark" for all cloud related support and for all web frameworks. And Cloudfork is actually very good library, portable to many Smalltalks, so let me thank Jan van de Sandt and Ernest Micklei on this occasion for their excellent work! > Is there any additional OpenID/OAuth functionality in WebCloudSSO, > beyond what was in CloudforkSSO? Yes, OAuth 2.0 support, which is not in CloudforkSSO yet (just OAuth 1.0 there). An few OpenID 2.0 changes. Two main classes are added: OpenIDAuthenticator OAuthAuthorizator Best regards Janko -- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo is exploding
Good balance between innovating/improving/changing and long-term confidence/stability/reliability is needed for a commercial tool. And both Germán and Marcus are right, both in their own way. I'd certainly like for Pharo to progress further but on the other side I'd like to get a better confidence on it. This is as said always a balancing act and yes, better communication of new release's merits and changes would help here. For us "outsiders", that is, Pharo users and not internal developers, for us a long list of closed issues means just nothing. Release notes kind of Gemstone has [1] would be better. Here main changes are explained in more detail. Also blog posts like Mariano's and Esteban's are very valuable as well. [1] http://community.gemstone.com/download/attachments/6816350/GS64-ReleaseNotes-3.0.1.pdf Best regards Janko Dne 16. 05. 2012 09:23, piše Pavel Krivanek: > On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 11:29 PM, Stéphane Ducasse > wrote: >>>> It depends. Pharo 2.0 is UNSTABLE. It says it everywhere. If you want to do >>>> seriuous development you won't beusing Pharo 2.0, will you? ;) >>> >>> I talked about that few days ago with Germán. The problem is not in >>> using of unstable version. The problem is that it is very easy to stop >>> to be in touch with Pharo now and within one year when the current >>> unstable version will become stable the developers will face to very >>> different system. That is one of the reason why Germán choose Cuis for >>> his current projects. Developers want simple predictable system. >> >> Absolutely wonderful. So what people wants just the same. Ok but this is not >> Pharo. >> And and and again again again and again who is concerned by RPackage vs >> PackageInfo, >> systemNotifier vs. announcement, better monticello, better canvas, better >> Zinc…. >> I find that a totally false argument. > > I will quote Germán (I hope he will not mind): "lot and lot of > things... Lot of new things each day. Not time to stabilize nothing. > Is needed such acceleration? ... My point is, I'm trying to move a > business with Smalltalk and the acceleration of Pharo is well know by > me (from other companies) and sooner or later, impact in my job and > I'm a very LITTLE software house can't migrate my products all the > time." > > We simply have to accept that some developers can have this feelings > and try to find a way how to limit it. I think that some official > Pharo blog (maybe written by Esteban) would be very helpful. Some kind > of not very extensive technical information source that will help > people to stay in touch with Pharo progress. That will explain what is > being changed in Pharo and why. I think that developers than will see > the changes like positive not as alien ones. > > -- Pavel > >>> I do not think that the way out from this is to slow down. On the >>> contrary. We simply have to do this era of a lot of big changes as >>> short as possible ;-) >> >> > > -- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
Re: [Pharo-project] Smalltalkhub needs your quick in the ass :)
Dne 16. 05. 2012 09:09, piše Stefan Marr: > Looks very nice. But betting 100% on AJAX is probably not a good idea for > Google rankings. > > Google current entry looks like: > """ > SmalltalkHub > www.smalltalkhub.com/ > Loading. Please wait. New Session Configure Halos Profile Memory XHTML 0/0 ms. > """ > > The cached screenshot also indicates that it wont be able to find any of the > hosted projects. > Reminds me a bit of the good old times with Flash... Agree, this is a step back from previous version of StHub and I hope Nico will rethink it a bit. Why not a plain HTML pages with Amber/JavaScript generated content only for things that really need that? Also, I hope a code browser with REST URL for every package, class and method is also coming, so that we will be able email links to the code, or post it on IRC, blogs... Note that GitHub has currently an advantage over StHub because it is SEO friendly and Google searchable. If StHub won't be, we lost a big opportunity here. And because of recent Dale's progress I would then rather think about migrating everything to GitHub instead. Best regards Janko -- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo is exploding
I think it is better to ask more questions on Stack Overflow (SO) instead of making yet another such site. On SO also to spread the voice about Pharo around! We are just too low in popularity on SO and isolating on yet another site will isolate us even more. To be notified on new Smalltalk or Pharo question there, just click on each tag and subscribe to the RSS feed of that tag. Best regards Janko Dne 15. 05. 2012 09:45, piše Max Leske: > What do you mean by that? I'm already using SO and the Pharo/ST question > density is very low and there don't seem to be many of us asking questions > about Pharo either on SO (?). I fear that questions might get lost in the > stream of questions on other topics. But I'm certainly willing to give SO a > try with Pharo. We just would need everybody else to do the same. > > Having our own Pharo site however, would be a better incentive to move away > from the mailinglist I think. > > Max > > > On 15.05.2012, at 09:35, Stéphane Ducasse wrote: > >> We can try to use stack overflow to see. >> >> >> >> Stef >> >> >> >>> >>> On May 15, 2012, at 7:47 AM, Max Leske wrote: >>> >>>> A random thought: how about a stackexchange site for smalltalk? Most of >>>> the things disussed on the list could probably go there and the list would >>>> once again be a quiet place for core stuff only. >>>> >>> >>> Yes, we were discussing that on Friday the developres of Rascal are >>> using it: http://www.rascal-mpl.org/ >>> >>>> We (or I) would have to propose a new site and we would need people from >>>> Pharo AND Squeak (and hopefully other dialects too) to come aboard to >>>> promote the site. The entire process of creation is explained here: >>>> http://area51.stackexchange.com/faq >>>> >>> >>> But would multi dialect not be very confusing? >>> >>>Marcus >>> >>> -- >>> Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de >>> >>> >> >> > > -- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
Re: [Pharo-project] [ANN] Nagare - a new flexible logger for Smalltalk
Hi Masashi, Quite interesting logging library, thanks! Some questions: - can you log Transcript too? - can logging be done in background process to improve performance, for example for burst of web requests? Best regards Janko Dne 15. 05. 2012 02:48, piše Masashi UMEZAWA: > Hello all, > > I have recently developed a new logging library called Nagare. > http://code.google.com/p/nagare-logger/ > > Nagare is designed to be simple and scalable. > Contrary to other logging frameworks which provide rich set of log > output methods (file, socket, DB, etc.), Nagare just connects to > fluentd (http://fluentd.org). And Fluentd does the various log > processing jobs. > > Features: > - Simple log interfaces with reliable backend > - Semi-structured logging (Not only String, you can store structured > records in log) > - Flexible - you can easily customise log-tags, log policy, etc. > - Portable (runs on Squeak, Pharo, VisualWorks) > > Enjoy! -- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
[Pharo-project] OpenID/Oauth library (was SSO - CAS Client in Smalltalk ?)
Dne 15. 05. 2012 00:01, piše Stéphane Ducasse: >> Just FYI, me and Cloudfork guys are just finishing the OpenID 2.0/OAuth >> 2.0 support for Iliad and Aida, based on Cloudfork SSO [1]. On Pharo and >> VW. On Pharo Zync with Zodiak SSL is used. Current goal is to develop a >> Google Docs API support. > > Hi janko > > is the library available as a library? I mean not linked to aida or iliad? Idea actually is to have WebCloudSSO library as independent as possible, but not without some web server/web framework, because OpenID/OAuth rely heavily on HTTP redirects. WebCloudSSO library currently works on Aida, now I'll start adapting it to Iliad, later someone can adapt it to Seaside or even to plain web server like Zync. Maybe it will even come under Cloudfork trademark at the end, we will see. Cloudfork otherwise already have a Seaside OpenID example. Janko > > Stef >> >> Let me also thanks in this ocasion to the Citilab Barcelona which >> sponsor our work. >> >> [1] >> http://blog.doit.st/2011/02/15/cloudforksso-openid-and-oauth-support-for-smalltalk/ >> >> Best regards >> Janko >> >> Dne 14. 05. 2012 19:58, piše Sven Van Caekenberghe: >>> Bonjour Cédrick, Stépahane, >>> >>> On 14 May 2012, at 19:44, Cédrick Béler wrote: >>> >>>> I'll let you know. >>>> >>>> CAS seems to be kind of standard for high organization SSO. It's just sad >>>> I didn't thought of it for Google Summer of Code. This could have been an >>>> opportunity. >>>> There's also ESUG. But maybe others should say of they find such an >>>> implementation useful (and not only me :) ). >>> >>> Yes, these are interesting add-on projects. The basis (Pharo+Zn+Zdc) is >>> there, I don't think these are major undertakings, but they can get stuck >>> on some small seemingly insurmountable detail. Step 1 is to understand the >>> specification and the foundation to start from. Looking at implementations >>> in other languages helps. >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Sven >>> >>> PS: Cédrick, I remember the OAuth (Dropbox) stuff that you were trying. Any >>> chance to start that again ? ;-) >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Sven Van Caekenberghe >>> http://stfx.eu >>> Smalltalk is the Red Pill -- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
Re: [Pharo-project] SSO - CAS Client in Smalltalk ?
Hi guys, Just FYI, me and Cloudfork guys are just finishing the OpenID 2.0/OAuth 2.0 support for Iliad and Aida, based on Cloudfork SSO [1]. On Pharo and VW. On Pharo Zync with Zodiak SSL is used. Current goal is to develop a Google Docs API support. Let me also thanks in this ocasion to the Citilab Barcelona which sponsor our work. [1] http://blog.doit.st/2011/02/15/cloudforksso-openid-and-oauth-support-for-smalltalk/ Best regards Janko Dne 14. 05. 2012 19:58, piše Sven Van Caekenberghe: > Bonjour Cédrick, Stépahane, > > On 14 May 2012, at 19:44, Cédrick Béler wrote: > >> I'll let you know. >> >> CAS seems to be kind of standard for high organization SSO. It's just sad I >> didn't thought of it for Google Summer of Code. This could have been an >> opportunity. >> There's also ESUG. But maybe others should say of they find such an >> implementation useful (and not only me :) ). > > Yes, these are interesting add-on projects. The basis (Pharo+Zn+Zdc) is > there, I don't think these are major undertakings, but they can get stuck on > some small seemingly insurmountable detail. Step 1 is to understand the > specification and the foundation to start from. Looking at implementations in > other languages helps. > > Regards, > > Sven > > PS: Cédrick, I remember the OAuth (Dropbox) stuff that you were trying. Any > chance to start that again ? ;-) > > > -- > Sven Van Caekenberghe > http://stfx.eu > Smalltalk is the Red Pill > > > > > > -- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
Re: [Pharo-project] A comparative article (was STON - Smalltalk Object Notation)
Hi Göran, One quick note: STON has more chance to be adopted than Tirade simply because of the name. STON is closer to JSON in people's mind, while Tirade, what that means? For me it sounds something tyran-like , pretty non-attractive therefore. And because most of us don't have time to go to details, such outside things like name matters. We are also more and more choosing things based on their perception and not reality. More on their outside form than on their real value. So, to have bigger adoption rate we need to take care about naming things as well. Best regards Janko Dne 08. 05. 2012 09:55, piše Göran Krampe: > Hi guys! > > I just posted an article about JSON/STON/Literal arrays/Tirade - and it > is probably easiest to read at planet.smalltalk.org (my blog has a > rather bad theme I realized): > > http://planet.smalltalk.org > > ...or at my blog: > > http://goran.krampe.se/2012/05/08/literal-arrays-vs-json-vs-ston-vs-tirade > > Sven - sorry for beating down a bit on STON in that article, nothing > personal and I love all the stuff you have done, I just have a hard time > placing STON in my toolbox. If you can give me good arguments why I am > dead wrong - please do! ;) > > And regarding Tirade, feel free to criticize that too of course, it is > still not set in stone and all input is appreciated, including telling > me it sucks :). > > The most interesting bit of the article is perhaps my thoughts on > literals in Smalltalk - would be nice to hear what people thinḱ. And oh, > sorry for the length of the article - it kinda swelled. > > regards, Göran > > -- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
Re: [Pharo-project] SSL plugin for linux
Igor perfect, I'd just love to have this plugin in every OpenClick, including current 1.4. Best regards Janko Dne 27. 04. 2012 19:29, piše Igor Stasenko: > hi, i built ssl plugin > > i didn't tested but at least it find it and loads and i were able to > run 1st primitive: > > primitiveSSLCreate >"Primitive. Creates and returns a new SSL handle in the VM plugin" > > > >^ self primitiveFailed > > > i updated the configuration & added missing source files in this commit: > > https://gitorious.org/cogvm/blessed/commit/59ef1cb1c70a93ed3c974b5d6beea0e4af970f15 > > to build SSL plugin you must have ssl, and ssl-dev libs installed: > > > sudo apt-get install openssl > sudo apt-get install libssl-dev > > > You can download prebuilt plugin from here: > > http://code.google.com/p/cog/downloads/detail?name=libSqueakSSL.so.gz&can=2&q=#makechanges > > (it is with debug info, since i used debug config to build it) > > To build it, you shoud use >= CMakeVMMaker-IgorStasenko.157 > and > > CogUnixConfig new > addExternalPlugins: #( ... yours ... SqueakSSLPlugin ) > generateSources; generate. > > > please try plugin, if it works, so we can include it in standard build > and be built automatically on jenkins server. > -- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
Re: [Pharo-project] STON (was Re: SimpleLiteralArray Spec)
Dne 25. 04. 2012 00:20, piše H. Hirzel: > First of all STON has a good name > 'Smalltalk Object Notation'. People who know JSON will be instantly > familiar with the general idea. Exactly! -- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
Re: [Pharo-project] JSON, Smalltalk parser and no-point wars
Dne 25. 04. 2012 00:03, piše Stéphane Ducasse: > Because really fast we will have a lot of Smalltalk code on github and we > will have > to have JSON parser to build tools. While we can simply use our parser. So > I'm writing a parser > not for us but for gemstone basically right now. Be sure that your parser will be available on all Smalltalks, not just Pharo. And upfront. Including Amber. Without that no chance for broader adoption. This was a problem of most such trials so far. Best regards Janko -- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
[Pharo-project] GSoC news: we have 13 projects!
Dear Smalltalkers! We have 13 GSoC projects and let we welcome to all students whose proposals were accepted: 1. Santiago Bragagnolo Concrete Type Inference -- Call graph http://gsoc2012.esug.org/projects/type-inference 2. Lars Wassermann ARM jitter for Squeak VM http://gsoc2012.esug.org/projects/arm-jitter 3. Facundo Mainere Interactive & social online Smalltalk tutorial http://gsoc2012.esug.org/projects/interactive-tutorial 4. Benjamin Van Ryseghem Nautilus http://gsoc2012.esug.org/projects/nautilus 5. Martín Dias Package management with Fuel http://gsoc2012.esug.org/projects/fuel-packages 6. Guillermo Polito Bootstrapping the core-Hazelnut http://gsoc2012.esug.org/projects/hazelnut 7. Pablo Estefo TestSurgeon http://gsoc2012.esug.org/projects/testsurgeon 8. Daniel Uber SciSmalltalk http://gsoc2012.esug.org/projects/sci-smalltalk 9. Rustem Khubbatov HMI (Human-Machine Interface) with Amber http://gsoc2012.esug.org/projects/mmi-amber 10. Juan Pablo Sandoval Alcocer Rizel - Multidimensional Profiler http://gsoc2012.esug.org/projects/rizel 11. Saurav Bhattacharya Export Excel files and other spreadsheet related goodies http://gsoc2012.esug.org/projects/excel-export 12. Steve Granda Finish Physical Etoys port to Sugar http://gsoc2012.esug.org/projects/etoys-sugar 13. Paul Kuzovkin Esse, a framework for visualizing, storing and exploring ideas http://gsoc2012.esug.org/projects/esse 5 students from Argentina, 2 from Chile, 2 from Russia, 1 from Sweden, France, USA and let we specially welcome our first Indian student! Now a Community bonding period started, when students get to know mentors, read documentation, get up to speed to begin working on their projects. Until 21.May when coding begin. Good luck to everyone! Janko @ Carla -- Smalltalk GSoC Admin Team http://gsoc2012.esug.org
Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo and the rest of the ecosystem
Hi Stef, Dne 24. 04. 2012 11:22, piše Stéphane Ducasse: > Now I do not see the points related to spoon and cuis. I do not understand > what is the point. > If people wants to collaborate with us this is ok now we do not count on that > for our future. > > You do not have to reply. Just think about what you want to build and your > future. Everybody > make choices and is free. I see the point behind Cuis/Spoon discussion in a wish to avoid duplication efforts in Smalltalk community. A wish to hear from you a word, something like: "yes we will look in Cuis to see if we can reuse some ideas or even code". To express just a will to look at achievements of others would help here. I think this is what many of us wants to hear. Best regards Janko -- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
Re: [Pharo-project] About Cypress [Was: Re: [ANN] Styled Text Editor for Cuis 4.0 Smalltalk]
27;s portability. >> | > >> | > To paraphrase a point from my STIC talk[3] on this subject: >> | > >> | > Cypress is not intended to be the primary version control >> | > system for any dialect, however, if you want to share code >> | > between dialects you should allow your developers to import >> | > and export code using the Cypress package format. >> | > >> | > If you are interested, there are bits and pieces of code in a few >> | > other projects that I would want to pull into the Cypress project >> | > and couple other things that I'd like to move out of the Cypress >> | > project before tackling another port ... >> | > >> | > We can correspond via private email if you'd like to take me up on >> | > the offer of help:) >> | > >> | > Dale >> | > >> | > [1] https://github.com/CampSmalltalk/Cypress >> | > [2] https://github.com/CampSmalltalk/amber-cypress >> | > [3] >> | > >> http://portal.sliderocket.com/vmware/STIC-2012-Practical-Git-for-Smalltalk >> | > >> | > - Original Message - >> | > | From: "Bernhard Pieber" >> | > | To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr >> | > | Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 9:53:35 AM >> | > | Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] [ANN] Styled Text Editor for Cuis >> | > | 4.0 Smalltalk >> | > | >> | > | Hi Göran, >> | > | >> | > | Thanks for your question! I have posted the announcement of the >> | > | Styled Text Editor to the Pharo list as well because I still have >> | > | not given up on the idea to port it to Squeak and Pharo. It is >> | > | not >> | > | straightforward but I consider it possible. >> | > | >> | > | Currently the Styled Text Editor is an external package which is >> | > | loaded on top of Cuis 4.0. The API it uses is quite specific to >> | > | Cuis >> | > | so to port it alone is probably too much effort. What I think can >> | > | be >> | > | done is the following: >> | > | Split Cuis into three parts, >> | > | a) the parts which are not needed for Styled Text Editor, like >> | > | the >> | > | Cuis tools >> | > | b) the parts of Cuis Morphic the Styled Text Editor depends on – >> | > | this >> | > | is in my opinion the most valuable part of Cuis because Juan >> | > | spent >> | > | years cleaning it >> | > | c) the Smalltalk kernel below >> | > | >> | > | The idea is to port only part b) and the Styled Text Editor. And >> | > | it >> | > | has to be done automatically by a tool which creates packages for >> | > | Squeak and Pharo, always from the latest code base. In addition >> | > | you >> | > | will probably need small Cuis portability packages done manually, >> | > | one for Squeak and one for Pharo. >> | > | >> | > | Being able to always load the latest code base of Styled Text >> | > | Editor >> | > | and Cuis Morphic as an external package in Pharo is a >> | > | prerequisite >> | > | to look into possibilities of sharing more of the code. >> | > | >> | > | I plan to write a more detailed proposal and then to approach >> | > | ESUG >> | > | and ask for support for the funding. Any ideas for other sources >> | > | of >> | > | funding are highly welcome and could speed things up >> | > | considerably, >> | > | of course! ;-) >> | > | >> | > | I for one have not given up on the idea that it might be possible >> | > | to >> | > | develop substantial components as you called it – thank you for >> | > | that >> | > | as well – in a more Squeak-dialect-independent way. ;-) >> | > | >> | > | Finally, I would like to take the opportunity and kindly ask >> | > | everyone >> | > | who has not done so yet: Please check out Cuis 4.0 and the Styled >> | > | Text Editor and give us feedback, even if it does not (yet) run >> | > | on >> | > | your favourite Squeak dialect! Thank you! >> | > | >> | > | Peace, >> | > | Bernhard >> | > | >> | > | P.S. Thanks to Göran and Janko for trying to establish different >> | > | threads for the rather off-topic discussions that my announcement >> | > | posting has caused. >> | > | >> | > | Am 23.04.2012 um 16:04 schrieb Göran Krampe: >> | > | > Hi! >> | > | > >> | > | > On 04/23/2012 03:40 PM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote: >> | > | >>> Just cloning it off into Pharo and forking seems... less >> | > | >>> optimal. >> | > | >>> Any ideas or thoughts? >> | > | >> >> | > | >> I do not get what you mean. I just want to work on our roadmap >> | > | >> and >> | > | >> make it getting real. >> | > | >> It is hard enough to get some momentum and to deliver for >> | > | >> real. >> | > | >> So can you help us to get focused? >> | > | >> People can do what they want. I wrote a vision document. We >> | > | >> have a >> | > | >> roadmap >> | > | >> and we will do it. >> | > | > >> | > | > Ok, let me clarify. I was just wondering how the Pharo >> | > | > community >> | > | > wants to handle a case where a substantial component (in this >> | > | > case, this new editor) is not *primarily* developed in Pharo >> | > | > (in >> | > | > this case Cuis). >> | > | > >> | > | > The simple route is to just copy and fork. But IMHO this >> | > | > doesn't >> | > | > leverage the team already around this editor, right? We (Pharo) >> | > | > can't just go around and forking everything and maintaining >> | > | > everything for ourselves, right? >> | > | > >> | > | > I just got interested in that problem - now, later replies >> | > | > indicated that it would still need a substantial rewrite for >> | > | > Pharo, so perhaps the situation I am describing is not really >> | > | > applicable in this case. >> | > | > >> | > | > regards, Göran >> | > | > >> | > | >> | > | >> | > | >> | > >> | >> | >> | >> | -- >> | Best regards, >> | Igor Stasenko. >> | >> | >> > > > -- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
Re: [Pharo-project] ConfigurationOfGrease status?
Thanks Dale, What to put in another ConfigurationOf to load just core? (I know I should RTFM, but your answer will be faster :) Best regards Janko Dne 23. 04. 2012 18:10, piše Dale Henrichs: > Janko, > > If you don't want Slime (the default) loaded, then you should load just the > 'Core' group: > >(ConfigurationOfGrease project lastVersion) load: 'Core' > > This approach holds for all configurations. If the default load does not load > what _you_ want, take a look at the configuration and explicitly load the > pieces that you do want. In this case the group 'Core' appears to load what > you want (at least it excludes SLime). > > Dale > - Original Message - > | From: "Janko Mivšek" > | To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr > | Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 4:13:04 AM > | Subject: [Pharo-project] ConfigurationOfGrease status? > | > | Hi guys, > | > | I loaded ConfigurationOfGrease on 1.4 : > | > | Gofer new > | squeaksource: 'MetacelloRepository'; > | package: 'ConfigurationOfGrease'; > | load. > | > | Then (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfGrease) load. returns #load does > | not > | understand. If I load: > | > | ((Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfGrease) project lastVersion) load. > | > | then it loads Refactoring browser stuff too. > | > | What I expected is to load just base Grease, without tests, and > | certainly without RB , which in this case could even break something > | in > | Pharo tools? > | > | So, I propose that someone check and update this configuration to > | load > | what most of us expect and with #load class method included. > | > | Best regards > | Janko > | > | -- > | Janko Mivšek > | Aida/Web > | Smalltalk Web Application Server > | http://www.aidaweb.si > | > | > > -- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
Re: [Pharo-project] Zodiak SSL on 1.4 problem
Sven, update: Now I loaded Zodiak-Extra and Zinc-Zodiak and ZnHTTPSTests all pass. While below mentioned test still fails. Dne 23. 04. 2012 15:59, piše Janko Mivšek: > Dne 23. 04. 2012 15:51, piše Sven Van Caekenberghe: > >>> I just installed Zodiak into 1.4 image but >>> ZdcSecureSocketTests>>#testPlain failed with 'Connection closed while >>> waiting for data". Any idea what could be wrong? Any idea how to further >>> debug? >>> >>> I did: >>> >>> 1. Gofer it >>>squeaksource: 'Zodiac'; >>>package: 'Zodiac-Core'; >>>package: 'Zodiac-Tests'; >>>load. >>> >>> 2. Copied from Zodiak OneClick: >>> SqueakSSL.dll >>> Contents/Linux/SqueakSSL.so >>> 3. Restarted image >>> >>> On Linux openSuse 12.1 64bit > >> Did you install the 32-bit versions of the OpenSSL libs ? >> Something equivalent to sudo apt-get install libssl0.9.8:i386 ? > > Yes, just checked and on openSuse there are always 32bit equivalents > installed on the 64bit system. > > Also this exception is raised quite late, after connection is already > established and request sent, but reading the response raises it. I'd > therefore conclude that openSSL library is present and at least partly > works. > > Best regards > Janko > -- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
Re: [Pharo-project] Zodiak SSL on 1.4 problem
Dne 23. 04. 2012 15:51, piše Sven Van Caekenberghe: >> I just installed Zodiak into 1.4 image but >> ZdcSecureSocketTests>>#testPlain failed with 'Connection closed while >> waiting for data". Any idea what could be wrong? Any idea how to further >> debug? >> >> I did: >> >> 1. Gofer it >>squeaksource: 'Zodiac'; >>package: 'Zodiac-Core'; >>package: 'Zodiac-Tests'; >>load. >> >> 2. Copied from Zodiak OneClick: >> SqueakSSL.dll >> Contents/Linux/SqueakSSL.so >> 3. Restarted image >> >> On Linux openSuse 12.1 64bit > Did you install the 32-bit versions of the OpenSSL libs ? > Something equivalent to sudo apt-get install libssl0.9.8:i386 ? Yes, just checked and on openSuse there are always 32bit equivalents installed on the 64bit system. Also this exception is raised quite late, after connection is already established and request sent, but reading the response raises it. I'd therefore conclude that openSSL library is present and at least partly works. Best regards Janko -- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
[Pharo-project] Zodiak SSL on 1.4 problem
Hi guys, I just installed Zodiak into 1.4 image but ZdcSecureSocketTests>>#testPlain failed with 'Connection closed while waiting for data". Any idea what could be wrong? Any idea how to further debug? I did: 1. Gofer it squeaksource: 'Zodiac'; package: 'Zodiac-Core'; package: 'Zodiac-Tests'; load. 2. Copied from Zodiak OneClick: SqueakSSL.dll Contents/Linux/SqueakSSL.so 3. Restarted image On Linux openSuse 12.1 64bit Best regards Janko -- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
Re: [Pharo-project] Autocompletition off, where in 1.4?
Thanks Esteban. Dne 23. 04. 2012 15:08, piše Esteban Lorenzano: > Hi, > > settings/code browsing/code completion (general) > settings/code browsing/code completion/smart characters (just smart chars) > > cheers, > Esteban > > On Apr 23, 2012, at 2:54 PM, Janko Mivšek wrote: > >> Hi guys, >> >> Where can autocompletition be switched off in 1.4? In 1.3 there was a >> checkbox in settings. Also, can auto "" () [] be switched selectively >> off? Specially "" I found just too annoying ... >> >> Best regards >> Janko >> >> -- >> Janko Mivšek >> Aida/Web >> Smalltalk Web Application Server >> http://www.aidaweb.si >> > > > -- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
[Pharo-project] Autocompletition off, where in 1.4?
Hi guys, Where can autocompletition be switched off in 1.4? In 1.3 there was a checkbox in settings. Also, can auto "" () [] be switched selectively off? Specially "" I found just too annoying ... Best regards Janko -- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
[Pharo-project] Techniques of disputes (was Styled Text Editor for Cuis 4.0 Smalltalk)
Dne 23. 04. 2012 12:37, piše Sven Van Caekenberghe: > > On 23 Apr 2012, at 12:25, Janko Mivšek wrote: > >> Dne 23. 04. 2012 12:08, piše Sven Van Caekenberghe: >> >>> On 23 Apr 2012, at 11:43, Göran Krampe wrote: >> >>>> Having skimmed this thread I must say that I am amazed how easy we fall >>>> into Squeak vs Pharo flamewars - haven't we gotten past that by now? >> >>> Yes, we should be past that, but just quickly skimming the thread, it seems >>> as if Chris Muller was the first to include the Squeak vs Pharo discussion >>> into this thread. >> >> No, it was Marcus, be fair please. > > No, he responded to Chris' mail, which was, let's say somewhat biased and > suggestive in the context of the discussion. > > How would you react if I said, in a normal discussion about some technical or > design aspect of Aida/Web that 'nobody should bother with an alternative web > framework since we already have Seaside which is perfect' ? Well, this is prime example of how nowadays society in general ( not just in our community) we are not able to react even to a bit provocative observations with argument-only responses. Specially we as technical profession should be able to stay on argumented debate even in with emotions present. Anyone remember the techniques of disputes in European medieval universities? Then it was normal to be angry and emotional, but you should "ride you own anger" to get an energy for as better as possible disputing with your opponent, which mostly ends up with the best result. Much better than with isolated effort, without such dispute and without all the energy in emotions there. Emotions are therefore not to be suppressed but canalized towards the better end! > PS: (The qoute above is *not* what I think at all, about either Aida/Web or > Seaside ;-) I know I know :) Best regards Janko -- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
[Pharo-project] ConfigurationOfGrease status?
Hi guys, I loaded ConfigurationOfGrease on 1.4 : Gofer new squeaksource: 'MetacelloRepository'; package: 'ConfigurationOfGrease'; load. Then (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfGrease) load. returns #load does not understand. If I load: ((Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfGrease) project lastVersion) load. then it loads Refactoring browser stuff too. What I expected is to load just base Grease, without tests, and certainly without RB , which in this case could even break something in Pharo tools? So, I propose that someone check and update this configuration to load what most of us expect and with #load class method included. Best regards Janko -- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
Re: [Pharo-project] [ANN] Styled Text Editor for Cuis 4.0 Smalltalk
Dne 23. 04. 2012 12:08, piše Sven Van Caekenberghe: > On 23 Apr 2012, at 11:43, Göran Krampe wrote: >> Having skimmed this thread I must say that I am amazed how easy we fall into >> Squeak vs Pharo flamewars - haven't we gotten past that by now? > Yes, we should be past that, but just quickly skimming the thread, it seems > as if Chris Muller was the first to include the Squeak vs Pharo discussion > into this thread. No, it was Marcus, be fair please. But I agree with Marcus observations here. Best regards Janko -- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
Re: [Pharo-project] Unresponsive 1.4 image
Dne 21. 04. 2012 19:10, piše Stéphane Ducasse: > janko open an issue with such cases so that we do not forget it. Done: http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=5663 > > Stef > > On Apr 21, 2012, at 2:54 PM, Janko Mivšek wrote: > >> Hi guys, >> >> This code reproduces the blockade in fresh 1.4 OneClick (with or without >> Transcript window open): >> >> [ >>(Delay forSeconds: 5) wait. >> SmalltalkImage current saveSession. >> ] forkAt: Processor userBackgroundPriority >> >> Note that fork on default priority does not block while on user >> background priority it blocks. It does not always block immediately >> (sometimes yes sometimes not) but it after image restart it is always >> blocked. >> >> But if you periodically write to Transcript from process on user >> background priority, it does not block, even if you heavily browse >> around, write to transcript, do manual snapshot: >> >> [ [true] whileTrue: >> [(Delay forMilliseconds: 500) wait. >> Transcript show: '.tst.'] >> ] forkAt: Processor userBackgroundPriority >> >> So, it seems not only thread-safe Transcript but something with snapshot >> (from a background priority, why?) is in play here. >> >> SmalltalkImage>>snapshot:andQuit: , shouldn’t run it on highest priority >> to block all other processes during the preparation for snapshot? >> >> Hope this helps a bit more >> Janko >> >> >> >> Dne 21. 04. 2012 11:48, piše Igor Stasenko: >>> So, this is related to thread-safe transcript code.. >>> which using semaphore to synchronize access to transcript stream. >>> I guess what happens is that a semaphore is blocked in another >>> process, but for some strange reason never released. This leads to >>> situation, that any other process which will attempt to write to >>> transcript will be blocked as well.. forever. >> >> Why is input not blocked immediately but after image restart? >> >> >> More investigation: >> >> >> 1. correction: image blocks in any case after restart, regardless if >> there is additional writing to Transcript or not. Snapshot namely writes >> to Transcript by itself and this is enough to block. >> >> 1. even if Transcript is closed the image blocks after restart >> >> This simulated snapshot from the background does NOT block after restart: >> >> [ >>(Delay forSeconds: 5) wait. >> SmalltalkImage current saveSession. >> ] fork >> >> This one also not: >> >> [ | elapsed | >>(Delay forSeconds: 5) wait. >>elapsed := Time millisecondsToRun: >>[SmalltalkImage current saveSession]. >>Transcript show: ' in ', (elapsed // 1000) printString, 's '. >> ] forkAt: Processor userBackgroundPriority >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >>> 2012/4/21 Janko Mivšek : >>>> Hi guys, >>>> >>>> It seems that writing to Transcript from background process causes my >>>> freeze after restart. And yes, I have Transcript window open. >>>> >>>> This is a code snippet in question: >>>> >>>> AIDASite class>>imageSnapshot >>>> ... >>>> elapsed := Time millisecondsToRun: >>>>[SmalltalkImage current saveSession]. >>>> Transcript show: ' in ', (elapsed // 1000) printString, 's '. >>>> >>>> >>>> If I comment out the last line, snapshot doesn't block the image after >>>> restart. >>>> >>>> This is not necessary 1.4 specific problem, because I noticed similar >>>> problem in 1.3 also. Just that on 1.3 input freezes immediately while on >>>> 1.4 it freezes after restart. >>>> >>>> Let me investigate a bit further, what if Transcript window is not open? >>>> >>>> Best regards >>>> Janko >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Dne 20. 04. 2012 21:42, piše Stéphane Ducasse: >>>>> Ok may be nautilus bug. It should be different than janko problem. >>>>> >>>>> Stef >>>>> >>>>> On Apr 20, 2012, at 9:39 PM, Sean P. DeNigris wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Stéphane Ducasse wrote >>>>>>> >>>>>>> on which os? >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Mac Lion 10.7.3 >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> View this message in context: >>>>>> http://forum.world.st/Unresponsive-1-4-image-tp4574693p4575049.html >>>>>> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Janko Mivšek >>>> Aida/Web >>>> Smalltalk Web Application Server >>>> http://www.aidaweb.si >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> -- >> Janko Mivšek >> Aida/Web >> Smalltalk Web Application Server >> http://www.aidaweb.si >> > > > -- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
Re: [Pharo-project] Unresponsive 1.4 image
Hi guys, This code reproduces the blockade in fresh 1.4 OneClick (with or without Transcript window open): [ (Delay forSeconds: 5) wait. SmalltalkImage current saveSession. ] forkAt: Processor userBackgroundPriority Note that fork on default priority does not block while on user background priority it blocks. It does not always block immediately (sometimes yes sometimes not) but it after image restart it is always blocked. But if you periodically write to Transcript from process on user background priority, it does not block, even if you heavily browse around, write to transcript, do manual snapshot: [ [true] whileTrue: [(Delay forMilliseconds: 500) wait. Transcript show: '.tst.'] ] forkAt: Processor userBackgroundPriority So, it seems not only thread-safe Transcript but something with snapshot (from a background priority, why?) is in play here. SmalltalkImage>>snapshot:andQuit: , shouldn’t run it on highest priority to block all other processes during the preparation for snapshot? Hope this helps a bit more Janko Dne 21. 04. 2012 11:48, piše Igor Stasenko: > So, this is related to thread-safe transcript code.. > which using semaphore to synchronize access to transcript stream. > I guess what happens is that a semaphore is blocked in another > process, but for some strange reason never released. This leads to > situation, that any other process which will attempt to write to > transcript will be blocked as well.. forever. Why is input not blocked immediately but after image restart? More investigation: 1. correction: image blocks in any case after restart, regardless if there is additional writing to Transcript or not. Snapshot namely writes to Transcript by itself and this is enough to block. 1. even if Transcript is closed the image blocks after restart This simulated snapshot from the background does NOT block after restart: [ (Delay forSeconds: 5) wait. SmalltalkImage current saveSession. ] fork This one also not: [ | elapsed | (Delay forSeconds: 5) wait. elapsed := Time millisecondsToRun: [SmalltalkImage current saveSession]. Transcript show: ' in ', (elapsed // 1000) printString, 's '. ] forkAt: Processor userBackgroundPriority > > 2012/4/21 Janko Mivšek : >> Hi guys, >> >> It seems that writing to Transcript from background process causes my >> freeze after restart. And yes, I have Transcript window open. >> >> This is a code snippet in question: >> >> AIDASite class>>imageSnapshot >> ... >> elapsed := Time millisecondsToRun: >> [SmalltalkImage current saveSession]. >> Transcript show: ' in ', (elapsed // 1000) printString, 's '. >> >> >> If I comment out the last line, snapshot doesn't block the image after >> restart. >> >> This is not necessary 1.4 specific problem, because I noticed similar >> problem in 1.3 also. Just that on 1.3 input freezes immediately while on >> 1.4 it freezes after restart. >> >> Let me investigate a bit further, what if Transcript window is not open? >> >> Best regards >> Janko >> >> >> >> Dne 20. 04. 2012 21:42, piše Stéphane Ducasse: >>> Ok may be nautilus bug. It should be different than janko problem. >>> >>> Stef >>> >>> On Apr 20, 2012, at 9:39 PM, Sean P. DeNigris wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> Stéphane Ducasse wrote >>>>> >>>>> on which os? >>>>> >>>> >>>> Mac Lion 10.7.3 >>>> >>>> -- >>>> View this message in context: >>>> http://forum.world.st/Unresponsive-1-4-image-tp4574693p4575049.html >>>> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> -- >> Janko Mivšek >> Aida/Web >> Smalltalk Web Application Server >> http://www.aidaweb.si >> > > > -- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
Re: [Pharo-project] Unresponsive 1.4 image
Hi guys, It seems that writing to Transcript from background process causes my freeze after restart. And yes, I have Transcript window open. This is a code snippet in question: AIDASite class>>imageSnapshot ... elapsed := Time millisecondsToRun: [SmalltalkImage current saveSession]. Transcript show: ' in ', (elapsed // 1000) printString, 's '. If I comment out the last line, snapshot doesn't block the image after restart. This is not necessary 1.4 specific problem, because I noticed similar problem in 1.3 also. Just that on 1.3 input freezes immediately while on 1.4 it freezes after restart. Let me investigate a bit further, what if Transcript window is not open? Best regards Janko Dne 20. 04. 2012 21:42, piše Stéphane Ducasse: > Ok may be nautilus bug. It should be different than janko problem. > > Stef > > On Apr 20, 2012, at 9:39 PM, Sean P. DeNigris wrote: > >> >> Stéphane Ducasse wrote >>> >>> on which os? >>> >> >> Mac Lion 10.7.3 >> >> -- >> View this message in context: >> http://forum.world.st/Unresponsive-1-4-image-tp4574693p4575049.html >> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >> > > > -- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
Re: [Pharo-project] Unresponsive 1.4 image
Hi guys, Fortunately this error is reproducible: 1. Pharo 1.4 OneClick 2. rm any PharoDebug.log 3. start image 4. load Aida: Gofer new url: 'http://mc.aidaweb.si/Aida'; package: 'ConfigurationOfAida'; load. (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfAida) load. 5. wait until Aida do a hourly snapshot at xx:00 6. quit 7. restart image After Ctrl-C in command prompt there is no new PharoDebug.log. I'm working on openSuse 12.1 (x86_64), kernel 3.1.9-1.4-desktop Hope this helps a bit Janko Dne 20. 04. 2012 19:04, piše Janko Mivšek: > Hi guys, > > Well, this bug is something you should finally find and solve ASAP, > because it certainly don't give a confidence to the Pharo for serious work. > > So, I just have again an image unresponsive to keyboard and mouse input. > Built from latest 1.4 OneClick. If someone wants it for debugging, I'm > happy to send you the whole image. > > Image became unresponsive after I started it again. Image was otherwise > snapshoted in background every hour. Is this maybe a reason? > > Best regards > Janko > > > -- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
Re: [Pharo-project] Unresponsive 1.4 image
Dne 20. 04. 2012 19:37, piše Marcus Denker: >> Well, this bug is something you should finally find and solve ASAP, >> because it certainly don't give a confidence to the Pharo for serious work. > Why do you start a bug report with a sentence like that? I am now very > motivated. Very. Because it is true and because I'm angry. First because I need to rebuild this image again and second, because this bug is there for years. Best regards Janko -- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
Re: [Pharo-project] Unresponsive 1.4 image
Hi Cami, on Linux. Dne 20. 04. 2012 19:32, piše Camillo Bruni: > Hi Janko, > > Can you tell on which OS? > > best > cami > > On 2012-04-20, at 19:04, Janko Mivšek wrote: > >> Hi guys, >> >> Well, this bug is something you should finally find and solve ASAP, >> because it certainly don't give a confidence to the Pharo for serious work. >> >> So, I just have again an image unresponsive to keyboard and mouse input. >> Built from latest 1.4 OneClick. If someone wants it for debugging, I'm >> happy to send you the whole image. >> >> Image became unresponsive after I started it again. Image was otherwise >> snapshoted in background every hour. Is this maybe a reason? >> >> Best regards >> Janko >> >> >> >> -- >> Janko Mivšek >> Aida/Web >> Smalltalk Web Application Server >> http://www.aidaweb.si >> > > > -- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
[Pharo-project] Unresponsive 1.4 image
Hi guys, Well, this bug is something you should finally find and solve ASAP, because it certainly don't give a confidence to the Pharo for serious work. So, I just have again an image unresponsive to keyboard and mouse input. Built from latest 1.4 OneClick. If someone wants it for debugging, I'm happy to send you the whole image. Image became unresponsive after I started it again. Image was otherwise snapshoted in background every hour. Is this maybe a reason? Best regards Janko -- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
Re: [Pharo-project] Chris Granger - Light Table - a new IDE concept
Dne 14. 04. 2012 03:37, piše Lawson English: > On 4/13/12 1:01 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: >> This is really cool: >> >> http://www.chris-granger.com/2012/04/12/light-table---a-new-ide-concept/ >> >> (And the prototype is HTML based) >> >> Sven >> > It is unfortunate that none of the GSoC projects were about creating a > binding for WebKit... Lawson, every web app can have a binding to WebKit (whic is just a web browser engine) on mobile devices if you package it with PhoneGap as a standalone mobile app. Best regards Janko -- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
Re: [Pharo-project] GSoC news: 13 stipendiums!
Dne 12. 04. 2012 10:45, piše Bernat Romagosa: > Great! But, how do we vote? :) Mentors vote and mentors should be subscribed on special Smalltalk GSoC mentors mailing list already :) There we discuss about all details. That is, vote can mentors and second mentors of all projects listed on http://gsoc2012.esug.org/projects?view=projectTable Best regards Janko > > 2012/4/12 Janko Mivšek <mailto:janko.miv...@eranova.si>> > > Dear Smalltalkers, > > Wonderful news, we got 13 "slots" from Google, that is, 13 students and > their proposals will be accepted for Google and they will receive > stipendiums if they will do their projects right. More exactly, part of > 4500 USD immediately, part after interim evaluation and part at > successful finish of their projects. > > We have currently 18 paired projects, that is, projects paired with one > student among their many proposals. You can see that from project table, > see which are currently accepted (column Acc.): > >http://gsoc2012.esug.org/projects?view=projectTable > > Now mentors need to review and score those 18 project proposals to > indicate which are the best among all that nice proposals and to come > with number down to 13. This will happen until next Friday 20.April, > when we will finally decide, which 13 students to accept. Google will > then officially confirm them in few days after. > > Best regards > Janko & Carla > > -- > Smalltalk GSoC Admin Team > http://gsoc2012.esug.org > > ___ > help-smalltalk mailing list > help-smallt...@gnu.org <mailto:help-smallt...@gnu.org> > https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-smalltalk > > > > > -- > Bernat Romagosa. -- Janko Mivšek Svetovalec za informatiko Eranova d.o.o. Ljubljana, Slovenija www.eranova.si tel: 01 514 22 55 faks: 01 514 22 56 gsm: 031 674 565
[Pharo-project] GSoC news: 13 stipendiums!
Dear Smalltalkers, Wonderful news, we got 13 "slots" from Google, that is, 13 students and their proposals will be accepted for Google and they will receive stipendiums if they will do their projects right. More exactly, part of 4500 USD immediately, part after interim evaluation and part at successful finish of their projects. We have currently 18 paired projects, that is, projects paired with one student among their many proposals. You can see that from project table, see which are currently accepted (column Acc.): http://gsoc2012.esug.org/projects?view=projectTable Now mentors need to review and score those 18 project proposals to indicate which are the best among all that nice proposals and to come with number down to 13. This will happen until next Friday 20.April, when we will finally decide, which 13 students to accept. Google will then officially confirm them in few days after. Best regards Janko & Carla -- Smalltalk GSoC Admin Team http://gsoc2012.esug.org
[Pharo-project] GSoC news: we got 30 proposals, few stats
Dear Smalltalkers, Yesterday passed a deadline for students to propose how will they do the projects and we received 30 proposals from 23 students, which is in my opinion quite a nice number and I'm sure we can end up with quite a number of nice projects this year. And what is even more important: new Smalltalkers in community! Next two weeks mentors will review and rank/vote for the proposals, Google will give us a number of stipendiums it will provide and in few days after Friday 20.April we will have a final list of accepted students and their projects. Few stats (numbers of all participating): 32 projects 34 mentors 32 students 30 proposals 23 students wrote proposal Students by Smalltalk skill: 11 None 9 Low 5 Medium 7 High Students from countries: 5 Argentina 5 India 4 Russia 3 USA 2 Chile 2 Czech Republic 2 Malaysia 1 China 1 Croatia 1 Ecuador 1 Egypt 1 France 1 Germany 1 Sweden 1 Ukraine 1 Slovenia Stay tuned! Janko @ Carla -- Smalltalk GSoC Admin Team http://gsoc2012.esug.org
Re: [Pharo-project] SciSmalltalk
Hi Serge, I put your really needed project proposal to our site: http://gsoc2012.esug.org/projects/sci-smalltalk Now please register, go to the project and put yourself as mentor (see 'edit' link near mentor name). Please find also a second mentor. Best regards Janko Dne 28. 03. 2012 03:38, piše Serge Stinckwich: > Dear all, > > we already discuss about that in the moose and pharo mailing-list. > Maybe this is too late, but please find a small proposal for gsoc 2012 below. > > > > Name: SciSmalltalk > Level: Intermediate > Possible mentor: Serge Stinckwich > Possible second mentor: ? > > Description > Smalltalk has at that time no equivalent to mathematical libraries > like NumPy, SciPy (Python) or SciRuby (Ruby). > The goal of the SciSmalltalk project is to develop an open-source > library of mathematical for the Smalltalk programming language (MIT > Licence). > > Technical Details > The development of this project is to be done in Pharo Smalltalk, but > the code should be portable to other Smalltalk flavors. > Numerous Smalltalk projects provide already some basic functionalities > (complex and quaternions extensions, random number generator, fuzzy > algorithms, LAPACK linear algebra package, Didier Besset's numerical > methods, ...). A first task will be to do an audit of all the existing > projects that provide some mathematical stuff and build a Pharo > Configuration to load them in a fresh Pharo Smalltalk image. After > that, the student help by his/her mentors will decide what are the > numeric algorithms to develop in priority. > > The student will need to know some basic numeric algorithms usually > found in such libraries. > Units tests should also be provided. > > Benefits to the Student > The student will help the Smalltalk community in a very concrete way. > The student will learn to design well-designed code with tests. > > Benefits to the Community > Having a package providing more elaborate numeric libraries is really > important to develop the use Smalltalk in new domains (robotics, high > performance computing, computer vision, bio-computing, ...). The lack > of numeric librairies hamper the use of the Smalltalk in a scientific > context at the moment. An another goal of this project is to develop a > community of people interested by these topic. > > Regards, -- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
[Pharo-project] [GSoC] Call for students
Dear Students, Now it is your turn! You will have to register in our website first [1], put there some information, show interest for the projects and contact the project mentors. After the registration step you will get all the mentors information in order to contact them. By pressing the button on the project, you will show your interest. This is not something formal yet. Of course you can propose your own project too. In this case write a proposal in a format other projects have and send it to admins (see the email on the bottom). Our mentors will vote for the most interesting projects and in the middle of the voting Google will tell us, how many projects will actually be funded. Voting will happen in April, with final results expected at the end of April. At that time you will finally know if you are accepted or not. Of course, there can be many students interested per project. This means that interest for this project is high, but on the other side a chance that you will be chosen is lower. It is up to you to convince a mentor that you are the best! Note also that the Ideas page is deprecated. On ideas page just the project ideas were collected. Now, we are preparing the real projects. So, please from now on always refer to this link for the projects: http://gsoc2012.esug.org/projects So, the initial steps are: 1. Register on our special Smalltalk GSoC website (with your Google account!): http://gsoc2012.esug.org/admin?view=loginGoogle 2. Edit your profile to get some more contact information for mentors to let you know, 3. Fulfill your brief Biography page (see Biography tab on profile), 4. Go to Projects page, choose up to three projects and click there 'I'm interested' button, 5. Contact and discuss with project mentors about your interest. Subscribe also to a special mailing list [2] where we will help you with further steps. Deadline: as soon as possible, because the deadline to register on official GSoC website [3] is 6.April, which is, well, soon! But about that later... Finally, we will really appreciate if you can help us to distribute this call for students. One of our goals is to increase the Smalltalk community. Those who have access to universities can distribute this among the students. [1] http://gsoc2012.esug.org [2] Students mailing list: http://groups.google.com/group/smalltalk-gsoc-students [3] Official GSoC website http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/homepage/google/gsoc2012 Good luck! Janko & Carla --- GSoC Admin Team smalltalk.g...@gmail.com http://gsoc2012.esug.org -- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
[Pharo-project] GSoC more mentors wanted
Dear Smalltalkers, We have quite nice projects, but mentors are still missing: http://gsoc2012.esug.org/projects http://gsoc2012.esug.org/mentors Note that current mentors are potential mentors and more project proposers than final mentors, so, if you are interested to mentor some project, contact the current mentor and volunteer to be a mentor, or second mentor, of that project. Same goes for current mentors, please be sure that your projects will have a proper mentor and second mentor. What's difference between mentor and second mentor? Mentor is responsible for a project and student through the whole project lifecycle, while second mentor is officially to replace the main mentor in a case he cannot be mentor for any reasons anymore, but unofficially second mentor also helps the main mentor working on the project. There is only one main and only one second mentor possible. So please, anyone interested please look at the projects and volunteer for membership. By replying to me or Carla, or to the current potential mentors. Best regards Janko -- Janko Mivšek Smalltalk GSoC Admin Team http://gsoc2012.esug.org
[Pharo-project] GSoC idea: Improving the GSoC website
Hi guys, To help the GSoC admins but also mentors and students, maybe this would be a good project to do. Would someone help being a second mentor? Improving the GSoC website -- Level: Intermediate Possible mentor: Janko Mivšek Possible second mentor: Description Our special website for Smalltalk GSoC (http://gsoc2012.esug.org and more complete past http://gsoc2010.esug.org) has a public and administration part to help running the annual GSoC process smoothly. It helps students, mentors and administrators in all phases, from collection of ideas, preparing the projects, inviting the students, pairing them with the projects, voting, running the projects with the interim and final evaluation. This project is meant to improve both public and administration part of the website to ease the work for everyone and to upgrade it to the most modern web technologies. Technical details Possible improvements: Facebook like timelime of personal page adding realtime updates (using WebSockets), notifications by email, more HTML5 support, improving the administration interface, collection of project ideas by proposers directly, integration with the Google GSoC site and mentors and students mailing list, REST API, mobile app, ... Benefit for the Student Getting in touch with current bleeding edge of the Smalltalk web technologies with Aida/Web framework (http://www.aidaweb.si) and Amber Smalltalk (http://amber-lang.net). Contributing to the community with valuable and immediately useful work. Benefit for the Community Well and easier run GSoC process, with a good website, up-to date with modern web technologies, is important for us to improve our visibility and have a showcase of our strengths on the web field to the broader open source community. -- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
[Pharo-project] GSoC application submitted, 22 ideas collected
Dear Smalltalkers, We just submitted the application to this year GSoC, now let we wait with fingers crossed for Google until next Friday to decide. I think we have quite some chance, specially because we collected and very well described 22 project ideas: http://gsoc2012.esug.org/ideas There is still a time for ideas, so if someone has still half finished one, please finish and publish it. Also authors of ideas please check if your idea is put correctly on above page. Best regards Janko and Carla -- Carla F. Griggio, Janko Mivšek Smalltalk GSoC Admin Team http://gsoc2012.esug.org
Re: [Pharo-project] Nautilus would be a nice GSoC project (was MVP)
Dne 05. 03. 2012 18:00, piše Benjamin: > Why not :) > > The thing is I do not know which steps have to be done to apply so :) For start just describe here answering these questions: Project name Level (Beginner, Intermediate, Advanced) Description Technical Details Benefits to the Student Benefits to the Community Those are just ideas for now, but we need to be as detailed already. Later we can choose the mentor, second mentor etc. Best regards Janko > > > Ben > > On Mar 5, 2012, at 5:54 PM, Janko Mivšek wrote: > >> Hi Benjamin, >> >> Are you thinking about applying with Nautilus on this Google Summer of >> Code? I think your work is to be supported more, and applying to the >> GSoC stipendium is a nice opportunity, not to be missed :) >> >> Best regards >> Janko >> >> Dne 05. 03. 2012 17:46, piše Benjamin: >>> The problem is that we improved a lot he morphic layout in 1.4, and Spec is >>> based on that. So most probably it doesn't work in 1.3 (and I didn't put >>> effort in this direction, and will probably not) >>> >>> >>> Try Nautilus instead of OB ^^ >>> Again, we improved the system, but we are not maintaining OB, so it could >>> be not up to date. >>> >>> >>> Have fun with Spec, >>> >>> Ben >>> >>> On Mar 5, 2012, at 1:41 PM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote: >>> >>>> spec is not made to work on 1.3 >>>> >>>> Stef >>>> >>>> On Mar 5, 2012, at 10:03 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: >>>> >>>>> Stef, >>>>> >>>>> Thanks for the code! #stable does some things on 1.4, but I still got >>>>> nowhere with 1.3. The big thing keeping me off of 1.4 is shout in the >>>>> browsers - I *really* like syntax highlighting. In fairness, I have not >>>>> looked at 1.4 in a week or so, so maybe that's been fixed. However, I >>>>> can certainly run it to play around with spec. >>>>> >>>>> Even on 1.4, I got a DNU over groups; this time I had to add the noop to >>>>> OB, which is apparently the default in 1.4?? >>>>> >>>>> More fiddling to come. >>>>> >>>>> Bill >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> From: pharo-project-boun...@lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>>> [pharo-project-boun...@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Stéphane >>>>> Ducasse [stephane.duca...@inria.fr] >>>>> Sent: Monday, March 05, 2012 3:26 AM >>>>> To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>>> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP >>>>> >>>>> bill >>>>> >>>>> thanks for the catch. I updated the document. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Gofer new >>>>> url: 'http://ss3.gemstone.com/ss/Spec'; >>>>> package: 'ConfigurationOfSpec'; >>>>> load >>>>> >>>>> ConfigurationOfSpec project load: #stable >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Stef >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Mar 5, 2012, at 1:24 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Ben, >>>>>> >>>>>> Great, but I'm still getting nipped by a DNU of #addGroupForPackage:. I >>>>>> found that no-oped in 1.4 so added it to 1.3 and was able to loadFull. >>>>>> It looks like great work, but I can't get anything to run in 1.3 or 1.4. >>>>>> Any ideas? >>>>>> >>>>>> Bill >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> From: pharo-project-boun...@lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>>>> [pharo-project-boun...@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Benjamin >>>>>> [benjamin.vanryseghem.ph...@gmail.com] >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2012 6:53 PM >>>>>> To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>>>> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP >>>>>> >>>>>> Everything has been moved in ss3.gemstone.com/ss/Spec :) >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Ben >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mar 5, 2012, at 12:47 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: >>>>>> >>>>&
[Pharo-project] Nautilus would be a nice GSoC project (was MVP)
o 1.3, but got an error and backed >>>>>> off. >>>>>> >>>>>> Any ideas? >>>>>> >>>>>> Bill >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> From: pharo-project-boun...@lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>>>> [pharo-project-boun...@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Stéphane >>>>>> Ducasse [stephane.duca...@inria.fr] >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2012 2:56 AM >>>>>> To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>>>> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP >>>>>> >>>>>> if you want to have a look at what we are doing with benjamin you can >>>>>> have a look at >>>>>> Spec >>>>>> >>>>>> Yesterday benjamin added inputField support and rewrote the changeSorter. >>>>>> >>>>>> Stef >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Feb 5, 2012, at 3:28 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> More: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> proportional layouts need to let each view have a proportion (zero >>>>>>> makes it fixed size) and splitters should be just another view that is >>>>>>> added to a composite, following the horizontal/vertical nature of the >>>>>>> layout manager. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> From: pharo-project-boun...@lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>>>>> [pharo-project-boun...@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of >>>>>>> Schwab,Wilhelm K [bsch...@anest.ufl.edu] >>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 9:25 PM >>>>>>> To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm still a little overwhelmed, but I see attention to layout; this has >>>>>>> been a BIG stumbling block for me in my efforts to bring MVP to Pharo. >>>>>>> I recommend using nested composite view/presenter pairs for most >>>>>>> layout. First, it lends itself well to an eventual view editor, and >>>>>>> second, can be surprisingly easy to code directly. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Each composite view has a layout manager. Layouts include constrained >>>>>>> table-like elements, but the real workhorses are proportional layouts, >>>>>>> which can be set either horizontal or vertical. By nesting them, very >>>>>>> complicate behavior can be achieved. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> There, said "nesting," and that has been where I have fallen into >>>>>>> trouble. Pharo/morphic layout works great for children of the top >>>>>>> level, but after that, I can't get reliable results. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sleep calls... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Bill >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> From: pharo-project-boun...@lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>>>>> [pharo-project-boun...@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of >>>>>>> Schwab,Wilhelm K [bsch...@anest.ufl.edu] >>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 6:36 PM >>>>>>> To: pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>>>>> Subject: [Pharo-project] MVP >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hello all, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I have been to busy to read today, but I like seeing any discussion of >>>>>>> MVP. I am **slowly** working on a framework for it, but would be >>>>>>> glad to be beaten to it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Default models are key; they must be replaceable, but (sub)triads >>>>>>> should work "out of the box." Models can include value holders, value >>>>>>> adapters, converters, and contexts, depending on how they are wired. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I have something of a start on the adapters and converters, which I can >>>>>>> try to package and make available. If nothing else, they will have >>>>>>> value in seeding discussion if not be directly usable. More to come. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Bill >>> >>> >>> >> >> > > > -- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
Re: [Pharo-project] GSoC ideas, 5 days to go!
Hi guys, Friday is approaching fast and we have so far only 4 complete ideas on this year ideas page: http://gsoc2012.esug.org/ideas Please think harder, two years ago we had 36 ideas and all evolved later to projects, with mentor, second mentor, student etc. So, are we without ideas two years later? :) Best regards Janko Dne 02. 03. 2012 15:05, piše Janko Mivšek: > Hi everyone, > > 7 days to deadline for ideas of this year GSoC! Please think about what > would be a nice project for students to work and that way join our > community. And yes, students are welcome to propose projects too! > > Let we "recycle" past project ideas too! Please review them and propose > those still valuable. Or change the proposal to suit better. Here they > are: http://gsoc2010.esug.org/ideas . > > Let me and Carla post GSoC related stuff only on Pharo, Squeak and VWNC > mailing lists while for other let someone forward those mails there > please. It is just too hard to post on 10+ mailing lists, you know... > > Past GSoC mentors please join the debate on special Smalltalk GSoC > mentors list: http://groups.google.com/group/smalltalk-gsoc-mentors. If > you want to be mentor this year you are welcome to join that list too. > > Best regards > Janko > > S, Janko Mivšek piše: >> Dear Smalltalkers, >> >> Let we apply this year again for the Google Summer of Code, which as you >> know is a Google's stipendium program for students to encourage them >> working on open-source projects [1]. >> >> Ok, our first step as community is to collect ideas for possible >> projects and to apply to the GSoC as an organization. Deadline is next >> Friday, so please hurry on with ideas. Just put them as reply to this >> email or to admins directly and we will put them on our website [2]. >> >> Your project idea should be written as answers to these questions: >> >> Name >> Level (Beginner, Intermediate, Advanced) >> Possible mentor >> Possible second mentor >> >> Description >> Technical Details >> Benefits to the Student >> Benefits to the Community >> >> >> See how such ideas look like in past: http://gsoc2010.esug.org/ideas. >> >> Waiting for your ideas >> Carla and Janko, your GSoC Admin team >> >> [1] http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/homepage/google/gsoc2012 >> [2] http://gsoc2012.esug.org >> > -- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
Re: [Pharo-project] [squeak-dev] Re: Project ideas for GSoC, 7 days left!
Hernán and Karl, can you or someone else develop your ideas a bit furher, by answering the questions: description technical details benefif for student benefit for community while potential mentor can be choosen later Thanks! Janko Dne 02. 03. 2012 21:38, piše karl ramberg: > Make web browser plugin of Squeak work better on all platforms. > Get Etoys image to run on CogVM. > > Karl > > > On Fri, Mar 2, 2012 at 9:36 PM, karl ramberg wrote: >> Port OpenQwaq video to Etoys >> >> Karl >> >> >> On Fri, Mar 2, 2012 at 9:17 PM, Hernán Morales Durand >> wrote: >>> To dream is easy: >>> >>> -HDF5 (http://www.hdfgroup.org/HDF5/) support like PyTables or h5py for >>> Python >>> -Information Retrieval/Full Text Search package like Lucene >>> (http://lucene.apache.org/) >>> -A binding to R or SAS or SPSS >>> -Better or more semantic web support (see >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_Services_Resource_Framework#Implementations) >>> -An omnibrowser for OWL ontologies >>> -CSS template system >>> -Support of a Distributed Hash Table protocol like Pastry >>> (http://www.freepastry.org/) >>> -Workflow system with designer and plug-in architecture (see >>> http://www.taverna.org.uk/) >>> -Big data CSV parser plugin >>> -Plugin for fast approximate search in strings >>> >>> cheers, >>> >>> >>> >>> 2012/3/2 Janko Mivšek >>>> >>>> Hi everyone, >>>> >>>> 7 days to deadline for ideas of this year GSoC! Please think about what >>>> would be a nice project for students to work and that way join our >>>> community. And yes, students are welcome to propose projects too! >>>> >>>> Let we "recycle" past project ideas too! Please review them and propose >>>> those still valuable. Or change the proposal to suit better. Here they >>>> are: http://gsoc2010.esug.org/ideas . >>>> >>>> Let me and Carla post GSoC related stuff only on Pharo, Squeak and VWNC >>>> mailing lists while for other let someone forward those mails there >>>> please. It is just too hard to post on 10+ mailing lists, you know... >>>> >>>> Past GSoC mentors please join the debate on special Smalltalk GSoC >>>> mentors list: http://groups.google.com/group/smalltalk-gsoc-mentors. If >>>> you want to be mentor this year you are welcome to join that list too. >>>> >>>> Best regards >>>> Janko >>>> >>>> S, Janko Mivšek piše: >>>>> Dear Smalltalkers, >>>>> >>>>> Let we apply this year again for the Google Summer of Code, which as you >>>>> know is a Google's stipendium program for students to encourage them >>>>> working on open-source projects [1]. >>>>> >>>>> Ok, our first step as community is to collect ideas for possible >>>>> projects and to apply to the GSoC as an organization. Deadline is next >>>>> Friday, so please hurry on with ideas. Just put them as reply to this >>>>> email or to admins directly and we will put them on our website [2]. >>>>> >>>>> Your project idea should be written as answers to these questions: >>>>> >>>>> Name >>>>> Level (Beginner, Intermediate, Advanced) >>>>> Possible mentor >>>>> Possible second mentor >>>>> >>>>> Description >>>>> Technical Details >>>>> Benefits to the Student >>>>> Benefits to the Community >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> See how such ideas look like in past: http://gsoc2010.esug.org/ideas. >>>>> >>>>> Waiting for your ideas >>>>> Carla and Janko, your GSoC Admin team >>>>> >>>>> [1] http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/homepage/google/gsoc2012 >>>>> [2] http://gsoc2012.esug.org >>>>> >>> -- >>> Hernán Morales >>> Information Technology Manager, >>> Institute of Veterinary Genetics. >>> National Scientific and Technical Research Council (CONICET). >>> La Plata (1900), Buenos Aires, Argentina. >>> Telephone: +54 (0221) 421-1799. >>> Internal: 422 >>> Fax: 425-7980 or 421-1799. >>> >>> >>> >>> > > -- Janko Mivšek Smalltalk GSoC Admin Team http://gsoc2012.esug.org
[Pharo-project] Project ideas for GSoC, 7 days left!
Hi everyone, 7 days to deadline for ideas of this year GSoC! Please think about what would be a nice project for students to work and that way join our community. And yes, students are welcome to propose projects too! Let we "recycle" past project ideas too! Please review them and propose those still valuable. Or change the proposal to suit better. Here they are: http://gsoc2010.esug.org/ideas . Let me and Carla post GSoC related stuff only on Pharo, Squeak and VWNC mailing lists while for other let someone forward those mails there please. It is just too hard to post on 10+ mailing lists, you know... Past GSoC mentors please join the debate on special Smalltalk GSoC mentors list: http://groups.google.com/group/smalltalk-gsoc-mentors. If you want to be mentor this year you are welcome to join that list too. Best regards Janko S, Janko Mivšek piše: > Dear Smalltalkers, > > Let we apply this year again for the Google Summer of Code, which as you > know is a Google's stipendium program for students to encourage them > working on open-source projects [1]. > > Ok, our first step as community is to collect ideas for possible > projects and to apply to the GSoC as an organization. Deadline is next > Friday, so please hurry on with ideas. Just put them as reply to this > email or to admins directly and we will put them on our website [2]. > > Your project idea should be written as answers to these questions: > > Name > Level (Beginner, Intermediate, Advanced) > Possible mentor > Possible second mentor > > Description > Technical Details > Benefits to the Student > Benefits to the Community > > > See how such ideas look like in past: http://gsoc2010.esug.org/ideas. > > Waiting for your ideas > Carla and Janko, your GSoC Admin team > > [1] http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/homepage/google/gsoc2012 > [2] http://gsoc2012.esug.org > -- Janko Mivšek Smalltalk GSoC Admin Team http://gsoc2012.esug.org
Re: [Pharo-project] Troll Banned.
S, Henrik Johansen piše: > > Marcus Denker wrote: >> The Pharo Board decided to ban the Troll. > testing Haha, bravo Henrik, you made my best laugh today :) Janko
Re: [Pharo-project] Nearly limitless Image: revisited.
Good compromise is a step by step approach, something like: 1.step: image based persistence up to 1GB with hourly snapshot 2.step: parts migrated to Fuel and file based persistence 3.step: Gemstone, with "images" running in parallel (well, any DB with images in parallel, Gemstone is certainly the easiest to scale from image based persistence) 1GB limit is here just for simplicity, you can probably go further with 64bit images. Advantages: - very very simple start - freedom of pure OO modeling, - good enough for probably 90% of all projects - fastest way from your dreams to reality - speed of development - no impedance mismatch, no ORM nightmare - you won't believe how much data you can put in 1GB image - speed because of always in-memory data processing - you can always scale further if you make your design from the start with above steps in mind - reliability good enough, on reliable hardware probably even better than more complex solutions. Main reason: simplicity. Disadvantages: - you easy forgot to include later scalability requirements in upfront design - such scaling is easy only to OO database while migrating to NoSQL (not to mention SQL) database later is very hard if not possible - up to about 1GB only, because of GC problems as Igor described - active users limit (number of requests/s) - single point of failure - corrupted image will loose all data (but good backup approach helps) - undetected image corruption fear (after many otherwise successful snapshots, causing non-startable image) - lengthy snapshots of bigger images (can be improved with two step snapshots, first in memory, then on disk) - loss of data between snapshots in case of power or machine failure (but this is very rare those days) Bet regards Janko S, Igor Stasenko piše: > Incidentally, we had a little chat with Marcus yesterday about that. > > No, i don't think it is feasible to use single image to store everything. > It is convenient, cheap and of course it is way better than dealing > with communicating with external DB/servers whatever. > > But there's one thing you should know already: the days of vertical > growth is over. > > Running a service (under VM or not) on a single machine is asking for > troubles: > - limits on load > - susceptible to power outage and other reliability problems > etc > > Also, think that the amount of data you need to process correlates > with CPU horsepower available. > Which means that yes, you can run a huge image with 64Gb data in it.. > but that means that responsiveness > of your service will quite often fall beyond any usability limits. > > If we look in terms of VM and pick only one thing - garbage collection, > you will see that there is certain limits beyond which a performance > will drop too much, so you naturally > will start thinking about ways to split data to separate chunks and > run them on different machines/VMs. > > It is because GC's mark algorithm is O(n) bound, when n is total > number of references between objects, > and GC's scavenge algorithm is at best O(n) bound where n is total > number of objects in object memory, > and at worst is where n is total memory used by objects. > No matter how you turn it, i just wanted to indicate that time to run > GC is in linear dependency from the amount of data. > > Yes, we might invest a lot of effort in making GC more clever, more > complex and more robust.. but no matter what you do, > you cannot change the above facts. It means, that any improvements > will be about diminishing returns, but won't change the picture > radically. > > That means that sooner or later you will have to deal with it: a > problem of splitting data on multiple independent chunks, > and making your service to run on multiple machines , in order to use > more CPU power, more memory and be more reliable etc. > At this point, your main dilemma is to invent a fast and robust > interfaces to communicate between images or between image(s)/ database > etc. > > We should concentrate on things which dealing with inter-image > communication and image-database communication, > because it is the only way to ensure that we will answer upcoming > future problems. Relying on using a single huge image is way to > nowhere. > -- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
Re: [Pharo-project] Nearly limitless Image: revisited.
S, Marcus Denker piše: > On Feb 29, 2012, at 1:35 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: >> On 29 Feb 2012, at 12:58, Janko Mivšek wrote: >> >>> For Pharo there seems everyone is avoiding this idea, mostly because of >>> image corruption fear. Well, we need to improve the robustness of Pharo >>> image and VM then this fear will vanish. It is obviously doable, if VW >>> is reliable enough, why not once Pharo? >> I am trying to be polite: remarks like this are unfair and not based on the >> experiences of most of the people in the Pharo community or of the companies >> using Pharo. It is perfectly possible to have stable long running servers >> based on Pharo. Sneaking in these phrases in simply spreading FUD. > It's not fair to expect, for nothing, the same as you get from a very > expensive product. Especially if even just > entering a bug report is seemingly already too much to ask (!), while for > VisualWorks, you have to pay real money. > > "It is obviously doable" has a differnt meaning with some Millions of EUR per > year that one can spend for engineering > than without. Without, it's *far* from obvious! Guys, calm down a bit please. There will be a Pharo Consortium, we will actually pay something, so it is a time to start improving the support infrastructure as well. With users vs internal developer distinction included. I'm using both VW and Pharo now, so why won't you listen my observations and experiences a bit? They are for good, not for bad! And one of attributes of a professional is to stand the constructive critics and not feel offended immediately. Best regards Janko -- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
[Pharo-project] Pharo user vs. Pharo developer (was Nearly limitless Image)
S, Marcus Denker piše: > Janko Mivšek wrote: >> I also support the image as a sole persistence idea and I'm actually >> using it for years on VisualWorks. >> >> For Pharo there seems everyone is avoiding this idea, mostly because of >> image corruption fear. Well, we need to improve the robustness of Pharo >> image and VM then this fear will vanish. It is obviously doable, if VW >> is reliable enough, why not once Pharo? > Someone needs to start fixing and improving. Why not, for example, you? I'm a Pharo user, not Pharo developer. Developer of Pharo itself, that is. I'm just using it as a tool to contribute on other fields like on the web. Therefore it is not to be expected to know Pharo internals enough to contribute directly, but I can report wishes, errors and help to someone more knowledgeable to fix them. And that's what I'm actually doing for improving Pharo reliability, ask Igor and Stef. About issue tracker: it is not a duty of us Pharo users to open and track issues there, IMHO. This is a tool for Pharo developers, so I propose that one of you "harvest" them from mailing lists and open issues. You know better how to open an issue than me. I can be then invited to describe the problem better and help with you solving it. And yes, this distinction between Pharo user and developer is necessary part of Pharo becoming more professional and business friendly. Best regards Janko > > Here is a link: > > http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/list > > It's much better than talking. > > Marcus > > > -- > Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de > > > -- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
Re: [Pharo-project] Nearly limitless Image: revisited.
Hi Ted, I also support the image as a sole persistence idea and I'm actually using it for years on VisualWorks. For Pharo there seems everyone is avoiding this idea, mostly because of image corruption fear. Well, we need to improve the robustness of Pharo image and VM then this fear will vanish. It is obviously doable, if VW is reliable enough, why not once Pharo? Best regards Janko S, ted f.a. van gaalen piše: > "I first used image persistence but the image grow too large.." > thanks for reminding, Norbert. > > > Hi all, > > perhaps you'll find me an idiot, I don't care. > (i know that I am: (class SelfReflection :o) ) > > Nevertheless, some brainstorming here. > > I've brought this up before, but it seems nobody is interested in this > topic.. why? > > it's about image size. > > Currently, Pharo 1.3-13315 at my 4 Gigabyte Debian amd64 Linux machine > reports > > memory75,392,160 bytes > old61,370,144 bytes (81.4%) > young2,169,692 bytes (2.9004%) > used63,539,836 bytes (84.31%) > free11,852,324 bytes (15.701%) > > (nothing peculiar added, just the Seaside package and a few classes of > my own. ) > > So, if i understand this well I have only 11,8 megabytes to play with? > > To begin with: why is only 75 megabyte available in Pharo (or Squeak as > well) > when there is 4 gigabyte physical memory available on my machine?? > > Anyway, IMHO this very limited storage violates the Smalltalk-all-in-one > image ideal, > because with this limited storage one cannot avoid the use of external > data stores > like databases (of course, exception: there always will be import an > export of objects/data) > > External data storage is complex, unreliable and should be something of > the past. > I'd suggest: don't waste time with this. rather improve the Smalltalk > internal data handling. > > I wish to have a very large image so e.q. I can have an entire > company's administration > (client and accounting data etc.) alive in it. > I want to use Collections and descendants, not external databases. > So, everything within the image. > > The beautiful (although opinions may vary) principle > of a Smalltalk environment is Image Persistence, isn't it? > > IMHO this requires: > - virtually unlimited image memory size. > -no external databases like e.g. Mongo or DB2 whatever. > -no persistent external storage at all. > > -You should see the (currently still) faster database performance as a > challenge > to improve the Collection and other related data handling classes > > -You would have to completely restructure the architecture. > or just extend the address width: 64 bits? > > what about an image of virtually unlimited size > gigabytes so > > (for now, if it goes beyond the physical memory size (say 32 GB?) > one could use a VM that works with virtual storage based VM > Virtual storage was first in use successfully with IBM mainframes > in the 1970s (and still is) ) > > on the other hand, I estimate holographic? physical memory > going in Terabytes is about to be available in 5-10 years from now. > blindingly fast, compared with today's standards. > > So, one has about 5 years to come up with such a system :o) > if one does, Smalltalk is ahead of everything then.. > > Don't laugh. One didn't even dream of 4 gigabytes of memory > during the Commodore 64 era. 1982-1994. > > In short: what would have to be changed to enable this? > > Some thoughts and speculations? > Anyone for tennis? > > Thanks > Ted > > > > > > -- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
Re: [Pharo-project] Few Aida on Swazoo benchmarks, Pharo and VW
S, Philippe Marschall piše: > Janko Mivšek wrote: >> Results are interesting, Pharo is now only 3x slower than VW on dynamic >> page generation but on network layer it is the same or even slighty >> faster, ... > Do you have any explanation for this? I'm amazed at how close the number > for static content are. Sure, it's the same Smalltalk code but different > VMs. At least in the AJP case the image maxes out one core so I would > expect the VM to play a big role. The numbers for dynamic content are > more what I would expect. It was surprise for me too. Ok, for 8K responses not too much, because this is almost a plain block copying by primitive in VM and here Pharo VM cannot be much slower to VW, but for zero size responses? I just rechecked once again, same results. I checked with Wireshark network sniffer that request and responses were composed correctly and keep-alive worked. There are differences between both traces but not so much to be worth studying how both VMs assemble and dissasemble TCP packets. CPU was saturated 100% in VW and 110%(?) in Pharo (top - looking just VM proces). This is two core machine. It seems that network layer works most in both cases while image processing much less, that's why differences in speed are not so evident, IMHO. Bust still, how can I check that? Best regards Janko > > Cheers > Philippe > > > -- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
Re: [Pharo-project] Updated Download page 1.4
Hi Marcus, An OneClick build would be also very useful to test 1.4 quickly. Those OneClick were once built by Jenkins, is there any reason they are not anymore? Thanks for your work and best regards Janko S, Marcus Denker piše: > Updated: > > http://www.pharo-project.org/pharo-download/unstable-1-4 > > So all the downloads (with the exception of the windows VM) are now pointing > just to the build server. > > Marcus > > -- > Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de > > > -- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
[Pharo-project] Few Aida on Swazoo benchmarks, Pharo and VW
Hi guys, Encouraged by recent Philippe's benchmarking I did similar on Aida with Swazoo web server, adding the comparison of Pharo with VisualWorks. Results are interesting, Pharo is now only 3x slower than VW on dynamic page generation but on network layer it is the same or even slighty faster, while it was around 10x slower on Squeak back in 2008 [1], Results (requests/s) 1. Dynamically generated 3KB login page (/admin?view=login) VW: 120, Pharo: 40 ratio: 3x 2. Aida ping with zero size response (/ping.html) local: VW: 4700, Pharo: 4500 ratio: 1,04x lan: VW: 4500 Pharo: 4600 ratio: 0,97x inet: VW: 4000, Pharo: 3000 ratio: 1,33x 3. Aida ping with 8K response local: VW: 2600, Pharo: 3100 ratio: 0,84x lan: VW: 1400, Pharo: 1400 ratio: 1,00x inet: VW: 140, Pharo: 140 ratio: 1,00x Note: network saturation! Legend: local: client run on local machine lan: client run on machine over 1Gb/s LAN netwrok inet: client run on machine over 100/10Mb/s internet connection Test environment ab (ApacheBech) testing tool Test machine: Intel Core i7 860 (2 cores) at 2.80GHz, 8GB RAM openSuse 11.4 64bit Linux Pharo 1.3 13320 OneClick (with CogVM) VisualWorks 7.8 Aida 6.4 (right after installation) Swazoo patch to allow Keep Alive (ab -k) over HTTP 1.0: HTTPConnection>>getAndDispatchMessages ... (self task request isHttp10 and: [self task request isKeepAlive not]) ifTrue: [self close]. ... [1] Swazoo vs. Apache Benchmark (2008) http://www.swazoo.org/benchmarks/swazoo-vs-apache.html Best regards Janko -- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
Re: [Pharo-project] So I broke 8k req/s today
S, Philippe Marschall piše:
>>> No, I build my own buffer and go straight to Socket. AJP is packet
>>> oriented with 8k packets so this is easy.
>>
>> Reuse of the same buffer (same ByteArray) on raw socket is also the
>> technique used in Swazoo and results are similar. I'm preparing a
>> similar benchmark including the comparison with VW, so that we can see
>> how Pharo is progressing on network field and also in general.
>
> One thing I noted with testing Swazoo is that is doesn't support
> Keep-Alive with HTTP 1.0. Unfortunately ApacheBench uses exactly this.
Correcting this was easy:
Swazoo patch to allow Keep Alive (ab -k) over HTTP 1.0:
HTTPConnection>>getAndDispatchMessages
...
(self task request isHttp10 and: [self task request isKeepAlive not])
ifTrue: [self close].
...
Best regards
Janko
--
Janko Mivšek
Aida/Web
Smalltalk Web Application Server
http://www.aidaweb.si
Re: [Pharo-project] So I broke 8k req/s today
Hi guys, S, Philippe Marschall piše: > Göran Krampe wrote: >> Nice to see your AJP work giving results! I think Nginx has a module for >> AJP, would be interesting to see if that makes a difference. :) > I don't see how this should help when the Pharo image is at 100% CPU. I > don't see how event driven IO is supposed to help for few, high > throughput connections. >> Are you using stock SocketStream internally or anything even more bare >> bone? > No, I build my own buffer and go straight to Socket. AJP is packet > oriented with 8k packets so this is easy. Reuse of the same buffer (same ByteArray) on raw socket is also the technique used in Swazoo and results are similar. I'm preparing a similar benchmark including the comparison with VW, so that we can see how Pharo is progressing on network field and also in general. Best regards Janko -- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
Re: [Pharo-project] Are Objects really hard?
Hi guys, Just to conclude this topic: there is a nice talk between Dave Thomas (of OTI fame where IBM VisualAge Smalltalk and nowadays VA Smalltalk came out), James Robertson and David Buck in recent Independent Misinterpretations: IM 67: Have Objects Failed Us? http://www.jarober.com/blog/blogView?entry=3507708198 What I like is a discussion about OO vs. relational world and ORM in the second half, which is also by my opinion the reason why OO didn't succeed more as it did, and why is considered hard for most of developers until our days. Best regards Janko S, Janko Mivšek piše: > Hi guys, > > Again one interesting topic for this weekend to discuss. David Nolen, a > Lisp and JavaScript guy posted in his blog an article titled Illiterate > Programming [1] where he said: > > "...Yet I think Smalltalk still fundamentally failed (remember this is a > programming language originally designed to scale from children to > adults) because *Objects are really hard* and no-one really understands > to this day how to do them right" > > He links to Alan Kay post [2] back in 1998 where he talks about problems > with inheritance: > > "Here are a few problems in the naive inheritance systems we use today: > confusions of Taxonomy and Parentage, of Specialization and Refinement, > of Parts and Wholes, of Semantics and Pragmatics..." > > Let we concentrate on broader "Objects are really hard and no-one really > understands to this day how to do them right" claim and not merely > inheritance, please. > > Best regards > Janko > > [1] http://dosync.posterous.com/illiterate-programming > [2] > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/1998-April/009261.html > -- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
