Re: [Pharo-project] Do not feed the trolls
Dear Stef, Am 21.02.12 21:26, schrieb Stéphane Ducasse: Thanks a lot Christophe! I love your trust :) It puts such responsibility on us but we accept it and we will do our best to make sure you can deliver robust and cool applications. Trust is the best motivation... :) It was not my intention to put pressure to you or the community. I believe that Pharo improved our situation a lot in the last years and that the project is on the right track. For us the lively and very intelligent community that built and maintains a stable Open Source Smalltalk IDE for the development of (web-based) commercial application is the most important thing. If you listen to the wishes of commercial users and we appreciate and support your work then Pharo will become even more successful, attractive and fun. Cheers, Chris
Re: [Pharo-project] Do not feed the trolls
Guido Stepken wrote Much advanced code. Yes. But - what for? Any *important* app outside there? Dr.Geo ... any parametric CAD can do this! CMSBOX - pt! How many customers? Pharo - still unstable, unusable, no sponsors. Jitter? Hmmm... e.g. LUAJit *has* sponsors, *very* mighty sponsors, WoW, Wikipedia ... and it *ins* rock stable, portable to 32bit, 64bit Intel, PPC *and* ARM!!! One man show, b.t.w.!! Like Elliot Miranda with COGVM! Develop the development process! tnx for seeing reality, Guido Stepken I guess I need now to thank you too for your flowers... It is not up to me whether our CMSBOX is an important project in a general context. But to answer your question: almost 500 customers in Switzerland are using this Pharo-based application until now and for them, this application and the underlying very stable technology with ongoing development IS important. Besides, we at netstyle.ch created several business critical web-based applications, from automatic inventory management to a large CRM for a Swiss insurance broker. Although you probably never heard of these applications I guess we are nevertheless an important component of the Pharo eco system and we use it because we believe it to be the right way of the ongoing development. Although there is always room for improvement, the migration to Pharo was and is an important step within our company strategy. On this basis, we built a company from scratch with more than 10 employees whereof five software engineers are doing nothing else than working with the Pharo IDE. It is due to the ongoing development of a small community that our personal success became possible. Could not be more thankful for that! Keep the work going! To now improve whatever needs to improved in your opinion, one should not issue orders to or offend the community but to collaborate constructively on suggestions. Honestly, this was not our strength within the past months too, but we are willing to support this lively community as much as we can in the future although we are not Wikipedia or similar. I am convinced that a constructive and appreciative collaboration is the only way to improve Pharo so please consider my words when writing your next message. Cheers, Chris Wysseier Founder and CEO of netstyle.ch and cmsbox P.S: Also wanted to say hi to everybody as I am new on the list. Be aware that I am not an *experienced* software engineer (let's say anymore ;) ) and therefore will not be able to discuss on technical strategies or tasks. But I would like to know what is going on and to show support and presence to all of you. -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Do-not-feed-the-trolls-tp4405636p4406708.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Re: [Pharo-project] Do not feed the trolls
Guido, I'd rather focus on positive energy. Please understand that you're not helping, at all. I'm kindly asking you to stop, you're attitude is polluting this mailing list. Cheers, Nico On 21/02/12 02:40, Guido Stepken wrote: Much simpler calling s.b. a troll than changing own behaviour!!! :-) You get old and unflexible, when you rather start to defend, refusing to see facts: Its not me, who is responsible for the failing of the product in the market, i am working hard! Always the same I hate it, this attitude. tnx 4 understanding, Guido Stepken Am 21.02.2012 02:29 schrieb Peter Hugosson-Miller oldmanl...@gmail.com mailto:oldmanl...@gmail.com: Nice try, Dale, but this troll will apparently eat anything - even Wikipedia articles :-p -- Cheers, Peter. -- Nicolas Petton http://nicolas-petton.fr
Re: [Pharo-project] Do not feed the trolls
Hi Chris, On 21 Feb 2012, at 12:12, wysseier wrote: It is not up to me whether our CMSBOX is an important project in a general context. But to answer your question: almost 500 customers in Switzerland are using this Pharo-based application until now and for them, this application and the underlying very stable technology with ongoing development IS important. Besides, we at netstyle.ch created several business critical web-based applications, from automatic inventory management to a large CRM for a Swiss insurance broker. Although you probably never heard of these applications I guess we are nevertheless an important component of the Pharo eco system and we use it because we believe it to be the right way of the ongoing development. Although there is always room for improvement, the migration to Pharo was and is an important step within our company strategy. On this basis, we built a company from scratch with more than 10 employees whereof five software engineers are doing nothing else than working with the Pharo IDE. It is due to the ongoing development of a small community that our personal success became possible. Could not be more thankful for that! Keep the work going! To now improve whatever needs to improved in your opinion, one should not issue orders to or offend the community but to collaborate constructively on suggestions. Honestly, this was not our strength within the past months too, but we are willing to support this lively community as much as we can in the future although we are not Wikipedia or similar. I am convinced that a constructive and appreciative collaboration is the only way to improve Pharo so please consider my words when writing your next message. Cheers, Chris Wysseier Founder and CEO of netstyle.ch and cmsbox P.S: Also wanted to say hi to everybody as I am new on the list. Be aware that I am not an *experienced* software engineer (let's say anymore ;) ) and therefore will not be able to discuss on technical strategies or tasks. But I would like to know what is going on and to show support and presence to all of you. Thanks for sharing this information! This is good to hear. We hope to hear more from you and the netstyle Smaltalkers in the future. Sven
Re: [Pharo-project] Do not feed the trolls
Thanks a lot Christophe! I love your trust :) It puts such responsibility on us but we accept it and we will do our best to make sure you can deliver robust and cool applications. For your information, Pinesoft's CEO told me that they are full of Pharo projects - a great news. Stef It is not up to me whether our CMSBOX is an important project in a general context. But to answer your question: almost 500 customers in Switzerland are using this Pharo-based application until now and for them, this application and the underlying very stable technology with ongoing development IS important. Besides, we at netstyle.ch created several business critical web-based applications, from automatic inventory management to a large CRM for a Swiss insurance broker. Although you probably never heard of these applications I guess we are nevertheless an important component of the Pharo eco system and we use it because we believe it to be the right way of the ongoing development. Although there is always room for improvement, the migration to Pharo was and is an important step within our company strategy. On this basis, we built a company from scratch with more than 10 employees whereof five software engineers are doing nothing else than working with the Pharo IDE. It is due to the ongoing development of a small community that our personal success became possible. Could not be more thankful for that! Keep the work going! To now improve whatever needs to improved in your opinion, one should not issue orders to or offend the community but to collaborate constructively on suggestions. Honestly, this was not our strength within the past months too, but we are willing to support this lively community as much as we can in the future although we are not Wikipedia or similar. I am convinced that a constructive and appreciative collaboration is the only way to improve Pharo so please consider my words when writing your next message. Cheers, Chris Wysseier Founder and CEO of netstyle.ch and cmsbox P.S: Also wanted to say hi to everybody as I am new on the list. Be aware that I am not an *experienced* software engineer (let's say anymore ;) ) and therefore will not be able to discuss on technical strategies or tasks. But I would like to know what is going on and to show support and presence to all of you. -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Do-not-feed-the-trolls-tp4405636p4406708.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
[Pharo-project] Do not feed the trolls
From Wikipedia: In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory,[2] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[3] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[4] The noun troll may refer to the provocative message itself, as in: That was an excellent troll you posted.
Re: [Pharo-project] Do not feed the trolls
Tnx for the flowers! Ok, lets resume, what we did see from the Pharo team since Pharo 1.0, 15. April 2010: Much advanced code. Yes. But - what for? Any *important* app outside there? Dr.Geo ... any parametric CAD can do this! CMSBOX - pt! How many customers? Pharo - still unstable, unusable, no sponsors. Jitter? Hmmm... e.g. LUAJit *has* sponsors, *very* mighty sponsors, WoW, Wikipedia ... and it *ins* rock stable, portable to 32bit, 64bit Intel, PPC *and* ARM!!! One man show, b.t.w.!! Like Elliot Miranda with COGVM! Develop the development process! tnx for seeing reality, Guido Stepken Am 21.02.2012 02:00 schrieb Dale Henrichs dhenr...@vmware.com: From Wikipedia: In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory,[2] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[3] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[4] The noun troll may refer to the provocative message itself, as in: That was an excellent troll you posted.
Re: [Pharo-project] Do not feed the trolls
Nice try, Dale, but this troll will apparently eat anything - even Wikipedia articles :-p -- Cheers, Peter.
Re: [Pharo-project] Do not feed the trolls
Much simpler calling s.b. a troll than changing own behaviour!!! :-) You get old and unflexible, when you rather start to defend, refusing to see facts: Its not me, who is responsible for the failing of the product in the market, i am working hard! Always the same I hate it, this attitude. tnx 4 understanding, Guido Stepken Am 21.02.2012 02:29 schrieb Peter Hugosson-Miller oldmanl...@gmail.com: Nice try, Dale, but this troll will apparently eat anything - even Wikipedia articles :-p -- Cheers, Peter.
Re: [Pharo-project] Do not feed the trolls
Develop the development process! You keep saying this, but you don't explain what you mean. You think Pharo's development process is flawed. Ok, we get that. But what exactly do you suggest be done about it? To be clear - I am _not_ asking to hear what's _wrong_ with it. I want to hear a positive suggestion of something that can be done. Something practical and possible. Once given that, Stephane and the others can either use the information, or not. But either way you will have said your piece and there will be no need to say any more.
Re: [Pharo-project] Do not feed the trolls
+10. From: pharo-project-boun...@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-boun...@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Stuart Herring [st-li...@stuartherring.com] Sent: Monday, February 20, 2012 9:29 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Do not feed the trolls Develop the development process! You keep saying this, but you don't explain what you mean. You think Pharo's development process is flawed. Ok, we get that. But what exactly do you suggest be done about it? To be clear - I am _not_ asking to hear what's _wrong_ with it. I want to hear a positive suggestion of something that can be done. Something practical and possible. Once given that, Stephane and the others can either use the information, or not. But either way you will have said your piece and there will be no need to say any more.
