Re: [Pharo-users] About asSymbol message , some questions in my mind

[Sven Van Caekenberghe]

Hi Bing,

Yes, any character is allowed in a Symbol. There is even special syntax that 
allows such Symbols to be represented literally.

'a b' asSymbol. 

  => #'a b'

Although it might be confusing, I don't see any problem.

The concept of 'meaning' is defined by the user, the usage, not by the Symbol 
itself. A Symbol with a space cannot be a selector (message/method) name, but 
that does not mean a Symbol with a space could not be useful in some other 
context.

Regards,

Sven

> On 11 Feb 2017, at 05:56, lb  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> I know Symbol is subclass of String.
> Any string object can become symbol object by sending 'asSymbol' message..
> I think  symbol must has its meaning in comon use, so the symbol should be 
> composed of alphabet or number ‘without space“.
> 
> BUT There are not compliant below
> 1.' ' asSymbol no meaning
> 2.  '$%%&' asSymbol no meaning
> 3.  'sign' asSymbol = 'sign ' asSymbol   >>>  false because of space.
> 3. '  one two  three ' asSymbol  >>>I think It should become 
> three symbols = #one, #two, #three
> 
> 
> Mybe my understanding is wrong.
> 
> Bing Liang
> 
> 

Re: [Pharo-users] About asSymbol message , some questions in my mind

[Benoit St-Jean via Pharo-users]

--- Begin Message ---
It can be useful if you want to save some space in some very specific cases.  
You could have a one million strings 'hello' (hence one million objects) or 
deal transform them into symbols and have only one #hello.  I recall a coworker 
telling me about this ultra-fast string search program in Gemstone where they 
transformed a gazillion duplicate strings into symbols thus using wy 
less memory and speeding up the lookup.
 - 
Benoît St-Jean 
Yahoo! Messenger: bstjean 
Twitter: @BenLeChialeux 
Pinterest: benoitstjean 
Instagram: Chef_Benito
IRC: lamneth 
Blogue: endormitoire.wordpress.com 
"A standpoint is an intellectual horizon of radius zero".  (A. Einstein)

  From: lb 
 To: "pharo-users@lists.pharo.org"  
 Sent: Friday, February 10, 2017 11:59 PM
 Subject: [Pharo-users] About asSymbol message , some questions in my mind
   
Hi, I know Symbol is subclass of String.Any string object can become 
symbol object by sending 'asSymbol' message..I think  symbol must has its 
meaning in comon use, so the symbol should be composed of alphabet or number 
‘without space“.
BUT There are not compliant below1.    ' ' asSymbol     no 
meaning2.  '$%%&' asSymbol     no meaning3.  'sign' asSymbol = 'sign ' 
asSymbol   >>>  false because of space.3. '  one two  three ' asSymbol  
>>>I think It should become three symbols = #one, #two, #three

Maybe my understanding is wrong.
Bing Liang



   --- End Message ---

[Pharo-users] About asSymbol message , some questions in my mind

[lb]

Hi,
I know Symbol is subclass of String.
Any string object can become symbol object by sending 'asSymbol' message..
I think  symbol must has its meaning in comon use, so the symbol should be 
composed of alphabet or number ‘without space“.


BUT There are not compliant below
1.' ' asSymbol no meaning
2.  '$%%&' asSymbol no meaning
3.  'sign' asSymbol = 'sign ' asSymbol   >>>  false because of space.
3. '  one two  three ' asSymbol  >>>I think It should become 
three symbols = #one, #two, #three




Maybe my understanding is wrong.


Bing Liang

[Pharo-users] About asSymbol message , some questions in my mind

[lb]

Hi,
I know Symbol is subclass of String.
Any string object can become symbol object by sending 'asSymbol' message..
I think  symbol must has its meaning in comon use, so the symbol should be 
composed of alphabet or number ‘without space“.


BUT There are not compliant below
1.' ' asSymbol no meaning
2.  '$%%&' asSymbol no meaning
3.  'sign' asSymbol = 'sign ' asSymbol   >>>  false because of space.
3. '  one two  three ' asSymbol  >>>I think It should become 
three symbols = #one, #two, #three




Mybe my understanding is wrong.


Bing Liang

Re: [Pharo-users] Unable to find the compiler

[Cyril Ferlicot D.]

On 10/02/2017 23:58, Mark Neagu wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I'm starting my first exrcise in Pharo Mooc. I just wrote the definition of 
> MyCounter (picture 1) and had to compile it by selecting the accept menu item 
> (picture 2).
> 

Hi,

You did a left click on what we call the "world" (the background of
Pharo). To get the right menu you need to do a *right* click on the
*code panel*. (See: https://puu.sh/tXu99/f11df69e74.png)

But if you keep using Pharo you'll end up using the shortcut that is:
CMD + S or CTRL + S depending on the OS :)


> But I can't find any menu, so i can't compile MyCounter.
> 
> Could you help me please?
> 
> Regards,
> Mark
> 


-- 
Cyril Ferlicot

http://www.synectique.eu

2 rue Jacques Prévert 01,
59650 Villeneuve d'ascq France



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Re: [Pharo-users] Final rush for submitting GSOC proposal - Need your help

[Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas]

Thanks Stephan,

I have send the PR [1] to have Grafoscopio included in the GSoC 
proposals. Hopefully we will get accepted and we can leverage on the 
experience of learners already in the community, that are still students 
:-) (this is my last year as student in the PhD).


[1] https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-project-proposals/pull/34

Cheers,

Offray


On 10/02/17 15:21, stepharong wrote:

Let us if we get accepted and we address this problem.
I think that this is important to have "students" not just having to 
learn pharo to get started.



Hi,

As I said, I would like to work on Grafoscopio for the GSOC, but I 
lack a supervisor. I even can work on the proposal but I would need a 
supervisor to help me with the GTTools-Spec related issues and 
improving test coverage and code quality where needed. Is possible to 
create a project in this "reverse" way (from a candidate looking for 
a supervisor)? If yes, any supervisor would be interested? Any other 
suggested route to get Grafoscopio in the Summer of code?


Thanks,

Offray


On 09/02/17 11:05, Serge Stinckwich wrote:

Hi all,

we are currently working with Alexandre to submit the gsoc proposal 
to Google.

I was a little bit busy with my lectures and I didn't check the
current proposals available here:

http://gsoc.pharo.org/

but all the projects are coming from RMOD team, but having all the
projects proposal coming from the same place might be perceived
negatively from Google. Can we add more projects from previous gsoc
form other people also ?

We have only one hour to polish the list.
Thank you for your help.

Re: [Pharo-users] Final rush for submitting GSOC proposal - Need your help

[Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas]

Hi,


On 10/02/17 05:45, Serge Stinckwich wrote:

On Fri, Feb 10, 2017 at 12:48 AM, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas
 wrote:

Excellent! I will create the proposal to have it ready for tomorrow.

Great, tell me when this ready.


It is. See at: 
https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-project-proposals/pull/34



Jupyter support could be nice, but I would think is some kind of ZeroMQ
support really. That would enable multiple kernels inside Pharo with the
advantages of live coding, powerful inspectors and debuggers, not present in
the Jupyter notebook interface. Hydrogen[1] and nteract[2][3] are taking
this route of enabling Jupyter kernels inside desktop apps with results far
more interesting that what is possible on the web interface.

I think there is a ZeroMQ implementation in Pharo ?
In order to built a Pharo kernel we have two solutions: built
something in Python that run Pharo from command-line or
implement a kernel in Pharo. The 1st solution will allows you to have
a working solution very fast, but I will prefer the other solution ;-)


Yes I would prefer the second one via ZeroMQ and Pharo. In that way you 
could use the same technology that Jupyter and nteract are using to 
enable several programming language kernels talking with the notebook. I 
think that the notebook we can create inside Pharo is far superior that 
the existing ones in terms of UI, inspectors, visuals and live coding.





[1] https://github.com/nteract/hydrogen
[2] https://nteract.io/
[3] https://github.com/nteract/nteract

Yes I know about these tools. I think we need to have first a basic
support for Pharo and we can have something more live after that.
and maybe use Grafoscopio as an interface ;-)

Regards,


Yes, using Grafoscopio as and interface for literate computing and 
reproducible research, native to Pharo and talking with several external 
languages would be a dream come true :-).


Cheers,

Offray

Re: [Pharo-users] Final rush for submitting GSOC proposal - Need your help

[stepharong]

Let us if we get accepted and we address this problem.
I think that this is important to have "students" not just having to learn  
pharo to get started.



Hi,

As I said, I would like to work on Grafoscopio for the GSOC, but I lack  
a supervisor. I even can work on the proposal but I would need a  
supervisor to help me with the GTTools-Spec related issues and improving  
test coverage and code quality where needed. Is possible to create a  
project in this "reverse" way (from a candidate looking for a  
supervisor)? If yes, any supervisor would be interested? Any other  
suggested route to get Grafoscopio in the Summer of code?


Thanks,

Offray


On 09/02/17 11:05, Serge Stinckwich wrote:

Hi all,

we are currently working with Alexandre to submit the gsoc proposal to  
Google.

I was a little bit busy with my lectures and I didn't check the
current proposals available here:

http://gsoc.pharo.org/

but all the projects are coming from RMOD team, but having all the
projects proposal coming from the same place might be perceived
negatively from Google. Can we add more projects from previous gsoc
form other people also ?

We have only one hour to polish the list.
Thank you for your help.







--
Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

Re: [Pharo-users] Final rush for submitting GSOC proposal - Need your help

[Ben Coman]

On Fri, Feb 10, 2017 at 6:48 PM, Serge Stinckwich
 wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 5:28 PM, Stephan Eggermont  wrote:
>> On 09/02/17 17:05, Serge Stinckwich wrote:
>>>
>>> but all the projects are coming from RMOD team, but having all the
>>> projects proposal coming from the same place might be perceived
>>> negatively from Google. Can we add more projects from previous gsoc
>>> from other people also ?
>>
>>
>> My two earlier proposals are fine, and already on the site.
>
> Can you reduce the size of the "Distributed Issue Tracker" subject
> because there is too much details compared to other subjects.

Sorry I'm late with this feedback...
For the "Distributed Issue Tracker" I read "The recent decision by
Google to deprecate and stop its API for the Google Issue Tracker"

So how recent was this?  I thought it was a few years ago when Fogbugz
was adopted.
This strikes me as a poor presentation of our capability to execute GSoC.
For a timely correction, I'd done this...
https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-project-proposals/pull/33
Two commits
a. No text changes. Inserted new lines to make it more readable in editor.
b. Shrunk test of DIT project.

cheers -ben

Re: [Pharo-users] [Teapot and Voyage] sending over the voyageId

[sergio ruiz]

Forgot to mention, i have this on my class..

neoJsonMapping: mapper
mapper for: self do: [ :mapping | mapping mapInstVars ]

will dig into this a bit more today..

thanks!



On February 10, 2017 at 2:04:14 AM, Norbert Hartl (norb...@hartl.name) wrote:

NeoJSON is not bound to use instVars. Look at the method mapAccessor: and 
friends.

Norbert

peace,
sergio
photographer, journalist, visionary

Public Key: http://bit.ly/29z9fG0
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http://www.painlessfrugality.com
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http://www.facebook.com/sergio101

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Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo Object Model

[Henrik Johansen]

> On 10 Feb 2017, at 13:04 , Oleksandr Zaytsev  wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I'm trying to understand the logic behind The Pharo Object Model.
> 
> Rule 3 states that every class in Pharo has a subclass. I was expecting some 
> cool loop, like in the case of Metaclass, which is an instance and also a 
> class of Metaclass class. But ProtoObject, which is the root of an 
> inheritance hierarchy does not seem to have a superclass (ProtoObject 
> superclass answers nil, which is not a class).
> 
> Does this mean that Pharo Object Model is inconsistent? Is ProtoObject an 
> exception of the third rule?
> 
> If you think about it, an inheritance hierarchy can't have a loop, because 
> otherwise, when looking for a nonexistent method in superclasses, Pharo would 
> be stuck in that loop.
> 
> So why is there even a loop in instance hierarchy (Metaclass class)? Does it 
> have a purpose, or is it there only to satisfy the second rule of the Object 
> Model? Because if the consistency of third rule can not be satisfied, 
> wouldn't it be better to add two exceptions to the model?
> 
> Please correct me if my understanding or reasoning is wrong.
> 
> Thanks!

Rule 3 says every class has a superclass; it does not say the superclass must 
be a class. (but it must be an object, as per #1)
Hence a superclass of nil isn't inconsistent (as nil is an object), and is a 
valid way to terminate the inheritance hierarchy.

Metaclass class class  = Metaclass  is necessary not to satisfy #2, but to 
satisfy both #1 and #2.
Rule 2, states that every object is an instance of a class.
Classes are also objects according to #1, and as such are instances of a class 
(Metaclass), so the circular definition when it comes to Metaclass is needed to 
satisfy both.

Cheers,
Henry


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Re: [Pharo-users] [Pharo-dev] Slack, fragmentation and design information

[François Stephany]

There is a special price for non-profits organization:

> The Slack for Nonprofits program offers eligible organizations a *free
upgrade* to our Standard plan for teams of up to 250 members. For eligible
teams above that size, we offer an 85% discount on the Standard plan.

With 322 users it means that we still have to pay...

See https://get.slack.help/hc/en-us/articles/204368833-Slack-for-Nonprofits
for more information.


On Fri, Feb 10, 2017 at 1:18 PM, denker  wrote:

>
> >
> >> I share many of what you say… but in the other point of view, Slack as
> really worked and there is a lot more happening now in Slack + mailing list
> than what was before just in mailing list.
> >> But most of that is lost because of Slack policies (also Slack pricing
> model is impossible for a community as ours), and we need to find a
> solution for that.
> >
> > Yes this is too expensive for the Pharo consortium ?
> >
> It is per active member… which is defined as “has logged in the last 14
> days”. We have 322 members. No idea how many
> are active according to that definition.
>
> Fot 322 it would be: $8 per user per month. Which means $2576 per month or
> $25772 per year (taking the special yearly price into account).
>
> Marcus
>
>
>

Re: [Pharo-users] [Pharo-dev] Slack, fragmentation and design information

[denker]

> 
>> I share many of what you say… but in the other point of view, Slack as 
>> really worked and there is a lot more happening now in Slack + mailing list 
>> than what was before just in mailing list.
>> But most of that is lost because of Slack policies (also Slack pricing model 
>> is impossible for a community as ours), and we need to find a solution for 
>> that.
> 
> Yes this is too expensive for the Pharo consortium ?
> 
It is per active member… which is defined as “has logged in the last 14 days”. 
We have 322 members. No idea how many
are active according to that definition.

Fot 322 it would be: $8 per user per month. Which means $2576 per month or 
$25772 per year (taking the special yearly price into account).

Marcus

[Pharo-users] Pharo Object Model

[Oleksandr Zaytsev]

Hello,

I'm trying to understand the logic behind The Pharo Object Model.

Rule 3 states that every class in Pharo has a subclass. I was expecting
some cool loop, like in the case of Metaclass, which is an instance and
also a class of Metaclass class. But ProtoObject, which is the root of an
inheritance hierarchy does not seem to have a superclass (ProtoObject
superclass answers nil, which is not a class).

Does this mean that Pharo Object Model is inconsistent? Is ProtoObject an
exception of the third rule?

If you think about it, an inheritance hierarchy can't have a loop, because
otherwise, when looking for a nonexistent method in superclasses, Pharo
would be stuck in that loop.

So why is there even a loop in instance hierarchy (Metaclass class)? Does
it have a purpose, or is it there only to satisfy the second rule of the
Object Model? Because if the consistency of third rule can not be
satisfied, wouldn't it be better to add two exceptions to the model?

Please correct me if my understanding or reasoning is wrong.

Thanks!

[Pharo-users] [THIS IS A TEST FOR DISCORD FEEDS PLEASE IGNORE]

[Dimitris Chloupis]

Test... test ... something test

http://fieldguide.gizmodo.com/turn-gmail-into-an-rss-reader-with-ifttt-1582552035

[Pharo-users] GSOC Pharo application done

[Serge Stinckwich]

Dear all,

thanks to the efforts of Jigyasa Grover,  Yuriy Tymchuk and Alexandre
Bergel, , we were able to have a GSOC 2017 application for the Pharo
Consortium. This is only the first phase. If we are selected by
Google, they will give some slots for students.

We have a list of projects for GSOC here : http://gsoc.pharo.org/

If you have more ideas, please send them to me or send a PR on :
https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-project-proposals/blob/master/Topics.st

Try to describe your project idea with 10-15 lines maximum.
The ideas is not too much projects proposals but to find important
projects for the Pharo community (i.e that will have some impact for
the community) with the support of the appropriate mentors.

I would like to have maximum 2-3 projects for each mentors.

Thank you.
Cheers,
-- 
Serge Stinckwich
UCBN & UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC)
Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk
http://www.doesnotunderstand.org/

Re: [Pharo-users] Final rush for submitting GSOC proposal - Need your help

[Serge Stinckwich]

On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 5:28 PM, Stephan Eggermont  wrote:
> On 09/02/17 17:05, Serge Stinckwich wrote:
>>
>> but all the projects are coming from RMOD team, but having all the
>> projects proposal coming from the same place might be perceived
>> negatively from Google. Can we add more projects from previous gsoc
>> from other people also ?
>
>
> My two earlier proposals are fine, and already on the site.

Can you reduce the size of the "Distributed Issue Tracker" subject
because there is too much details compared to other subjects.

Thank you.
-- 
Serge Stinckwich
UCBN & UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC)
Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk
http://www.doesnotunderstand.org/

Re: [Pharo-users] Final rush for submitting GSOC proposal - Need your help

[Serge Stinckwich]

On Fri, Feb 10, 2017 at 12:48 AM, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas
 wrote:
> Excellent! I will create the proposal to have it ready for tomorrow.

Great, tell me when this ready.

> Jupyter support could be nice, but I would think is some kind of ZeroMQ
> support really. That would enable multiple kernels inside Pharo with the
> advantages of live coding, powerful inspectors and debuggers, not present in
> the Jupyter notebook interface. Hydrogen[1] and nteract[2][3] are taking
> this route of enabling Jupyter kernels inside desktop apps with results far
> more interesting that what is possible on the web interface.

I think there is a ZeroMQ implementation in Pharo ?
In order to built a Pharo kernel we have two solutions: built
something in Python that run Pharo from command-line or
implement a kernel in Pharo. The 1st solution will allows you to have
a working solution very fast, but I will prefer the other solution ;-)

> [1] https://github.com/nteract/hydrogen
> [2] https://nteract.io/
> [3] https://github.com/nteract/nteract

Yes I know about these tools. I think we need to have first a basic
support for Pharo and we can have something more live after that.
and maybe use Grafoscopio as an interface ;-)

Regards,
-- 
Serge Stinckwich
UCBN & UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC)
Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk
http://www.doesnotunderstand.org/

Re: [Pharo-users] [Pharo-dev] Slack, fragmentation and design information

[Esteban Lorenzano]

> On 10 Feb 2017, at 11:28, Serge Stinckwich  wrote:
> 
> On Fri, Feb 10, 2017 at 10:58 AM, Esteban Lorenzano  
> wrote:
>> Hi Stephan,
>> 
>>> On 10 Feb 2017, at 10:27, Stephan Eggermont  wrote:
>>> 
>>> The past year we have started using Slack to communicate in real-time about 
>>> Pharo. It has nice (mobile) clients and makes it easy to share pictures and 
>>> snippets. As a result a large part of the communication about design and 
>>> how to do things has moved from the mailing lists to Slack. As we're using 
>>> the free version, and cannot afford to use the commercial version, we have 
>>> no long-time storage of the design discussions. This contrasts with our 
>>> mailing lists, that have a long-term archive. There was some discussion 
>>> about this, and I'm not aware of that resulting in an accessible, easy to 
>>> access archive. Also, we have not succeeded in summarizing design 
>>> discussions from slack to the mailing lists. The resulting gap in design 
>>> information forms an enormous long-term risk for our community. Without the 
>>> design discussions it is much more difficult to later understand why 
>>> decisions were taken. We cannot afford to let this short-term ease-of-use 
>>> destroy Pharo's community history, and thereby Pharo. Let us fix this.
> 
> Yes I agree with your concerns.
> 
>> I share many of what you say… but in the other point of view, Slack as 
>> really worked and there is a lot more happening now in Slack + mailing list 
>> than what was before just in mailing list.
>> But most of that is lost because of Slack policies (also Slack pricing model 
>> is impossible for a community as ours), and we need to find a solution for 
>> that.
> 
> Yes this is too expensive for the Pharo consortium ?

yes it is. 
Is just not prepared for open source communities like ours.

> 
>> Last days we were experimenting with @kilon again on use discord as a 
>> substitute and I find that for now it works really well and with a bit of 
>> work we can have all what you want: discord incorporated a search function 
>> (and they do not have the 10k limit) and we could do a bot that logs 
>> everything that happens there and stores that into gists (or whatever, but 
>> gists seems like a good idea).
>> 
>> With this we would have enhanced the availability of those discussions (it 
>> remains the fact that immediate communication is worst organised than mails, 
>> but well… we need to try)
> 
> and move all the community on discord ?

this is what I would like to propose, because...

> Or use an open-source slack

the problem with this is that we have to host it… and then is more problems for 
maintenance, etc.

Esteban

> like : https://about.mattermost.com/
> and host our own chat server.
> 
> -- 
> Serge Stinckwich
> UCBN & UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC)
> Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk
> http://www.doesnotunderstand.org/
> 

Re: [Pharo-users] [Pharo-dev] Slack, fragmentation and design information

[Serge Stinckwich]

On Fri, Feb 10, 2017 at 10:58 AM, Esteban Lorenzano  wrote:
> Hi Stephan,
>
>> On 10 Feb 2017, at 10:27, Stephan Eggermont  wrote:
>>
>> The past year we have started using Slack to communicate in real-time about 
>> Pharo. It has nice (mobile) clients and makes it easy to share pictures and 
>> snippets. As a result a large part of the communication about design and how 
>> to do things has moved from the mailing lists to Slack. As we're using the 
>> free version, and cannot afford to use the commercial version, we have no 
>> long-time storage of the design discussions. This contrasts with our mailing 
>> lists, that have a long-term archive. There was some discussion about this, 
>> and I'm not aware of that resulting in an accessible, easy to access 
>> archive. Also, we have not succeeded in summarizing design discussions from 
>> slack to the mailing lists. The resulting gap in design information forms an 
>> enormous long-term risk for our community. Without the design discussions it 
>> is much more difficult to later understand why decisions were taken. We 
>> cannot afford to let this short-term ease-of-use destroy Pharo's community 
>> history, and thereby Pharo. Let us fix this.

Yes I agree with your concerns.

> I share many of what you say… but in the other point of view, Slack as really 
> worked and there is a lot more happening now in Slack + mailing list than 
> what was before just in mailing list.
> But most of that is lost because of Slack policies (also Slack pricing model 
> is impossible for a community as ours), and we need to find a solution for 
> that.

Yes this is too expensive for the Pharo consortium ?

> Last days we were experimenting with @kilon again on use discord as a 
> substitute and I find that for now it works really well and with a bit of 
> work we can have all what you want: discord incorporated a search function 
> (and they do not have the 10k limit) and we could do a bot that logs 
> everything that happens there and stores that into gists (or whatever, but 
> gists seems like a good idea).
>
> With this we would have enhanced the availability of those discussions (it 
> remains the fact that immediate communication is worst organised than mails, 
> but well… we need to try)

and move all the community on discord ? Or use an open-source slack
like : https://about.mattermost.com/
and host our own chat server.

-- 
Serge Stinckwich
UCBN & UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC)
Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk
http://www.doesnotunderstand.org/

Re: [Pharo-users] [Pharo-dev] Slack, fragmentation and design information

[Esteban Lorenzano]

Hi Stephan, 

> On 10 Feb 2017, at 10:27, Stephan Eggermont  wrote:
> 
> The past year we have started using Slack to communicate in real-time about 
> Pharo. It has nice (mobile) clients and makes it easy to share pictures and 
> snippets. As a result a large part of the communication about design and how 
> to do things has moved from the mailing lists to Slack. As we're using the 
> free version, and cannot afford to use the commercial version, we have no 
> long-time storage of the design discussions. This contrasts with our mailing 
> lists, that have a long-term archive. There was some discussion about this, 
> and I'm not aware of that resulting in an accessible, easy to access archive. 
> Also, we have not succeeded in summarizing design discussions from slack to 
> the mailing lists. The resulting gap in design information forms an enormous 
> long-term risk for our community. Without the design discussions it is much 
> more difficult to later understand why decisions were taken. We cannot afford 
> to let this short-term ease-of-use destroy Pharo's community history, and 
> thereby Pharo. Let us fix this.

I share many of what you say… but in the other point of view, Slack as really 
worked and there is a lot more happening now in Slack + mailing list than what 
was before just in mailing list. 
But most of that is lost because of Slack policies (also Slack pricing model is 
impossible for a community as ours), and we need to find a solution for that. 

Last days we were experimenting with @kilon again on use discord as a 
substitute and I find that for now it works really well and with a bit of work 
we can have all what you want: discord incorporated a search function (and they 
do not have the 10k limit) and we could do a bot that logs everything that 
happens there and stores that into gists (or whatever, but gists seems like a 
good idea). 

With this we would have enhanced the availability of those discussions (it 
remains the fact that immediate communication is worst organised than mails, 
but well… we need to try)

Esteban

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> Stephan
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