Re: [Pharo-users] UK Smalltalk User Group Meeting - Wednesday, May 27th

[Tim Mackinnon]

Before the lockdown, when you could meet in the pub, we were blown away when 
Alan nervously approached us and asked if we were the UKST group as he was keen 
to meet some Smalltalkers as he’d been using this music system written in 
Smalltalk ... it was an amazing story that I’m sure he’ll get into again for 
everyone.

Tim

> On 21 May 2020, at 04:23, Serge Stinckwich  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 10:00 PM Stéphane Ducasse 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>> On 20 May 2020, at 13:38, Giovanni Corriga  wrote:
>>> 
>>>   The next meeting of the UK Smalltalk User Group will be on Wednesday, May 
>>> 27th.
>>> 
>>> Alan Jackson will talk to us about Kyma ( https://kyma.symbolicsound.com/ ) 
>>> an object-oriented sound design environment built with Smalltalk technology.
>> 
>> Kyma looks super cool.
>> I would love to see kyma running on our lovely system. 
>> 
> 
> 
> This is a great topic. I remember some years ago, I try to invite Kyma people 
> to ESUG conference.
> I will try to attend the meeting but it will be 2am for me 😓
> 
> Regards,
> 
> -- 
> Serge Stinckwich
> https://twitter.com/SergeStinckwich

Re: [Pharo-users] UK Smalltalk User Group Meeting - Wednesday, May 27th

[Serge Stinckwich]

On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 10:00 PM Stéphane Ducasse 
wrote:

>
>
> On 20 May 2020, at 13:38, Giovanni Corriga  wrote:
>
>   The next meeting of the UK Smalltalk User Group will be on Wednesday,
> May 27th.
>
> Alan Jackson will talk to us about Kyma ( https://kyma.symbolicsound.com/ )
> an object-oriented sound design environment built with Smalltalk technology.
>
>
> Kyma looks super cool.
> I would love to see kyma running on our lovely system.
>
>

This is a great topic. I remember some years ago, I try to invite Kyma
people to ESUG conference.
I will try to attend the meeting but it will be 2am for me 😓

Regards,

-- 
Serge Stinckwic
h
https://twitter.com/SergeStinckwich

Re: [Pharo-users] Spec2 Pharo8/9; icons

[Tomaž Turk]

Thanks, Stephane, I'll switch to P9.

> png is better and there is a library to manage icons
> I do not have the name but you can load icons.
> But look around.

For icons I found the necessary code in ThemeIcons>>loadIconsFromUrl. 
Here's a simplistic approach to load icons from PNGs in a local ZIP 
archive, if somebody needs it:


| themeIcons newIcons |

newIcons := IdentityDictionary new.
themeIcons := ThemeIcons new.

((FileSystem zip: 'C:\icons\a.zip' asFileReference)
open workingDirectory allChildrenMatching: '*.png') do:
[ :each | newIcons
at: each base asSymbol
put: (themeIcons readPNGFrom: each )].
newIcons.

Best wishes,
Tomaz

Re: [Pharo-users] Refactor without formatting

[Vitor Medina Cruz]

Ok, so should I open the issue or leave it as it is?

On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 2:08 PM Stéphane Ducasse 
wrote:

> There is what we would love to have and there is what we have.
> It is difficult to conserve the formatting of the original method
> especially on extract
> or more generally on code transformation.
> Now it does not mean that we like it this way.
> But given the ratio income/results I think that Pharo is super super good.
>
> But but
> people can help
> people can pay for more.
>
> S.
>
> On 19 May 2020, at 19:33, Vitor Medina Cruz  wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> When I run a refactoring, Rename Method, for example, the refactoring is
> reformatting the code affected. Is it possible to configure Pharo to
> refactor without reformatting code? Depending on the refactoring, the
> reformat is so intrusive that make it more worth to make the refactoring by
> hand.
>
> Regards,
> Vitor
>
>
> 
> Stéphane Ducasse
> http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr / http://www.pharo.org
> 03 59 35 87 52
> Assistant: Julie Jonas
> FAX 03 59 57 78 50
> TEL 03 59 35 86 16
> S. Ducasse - Inria
> 40, avenue Halley,
> Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, Bât.A, Park Plaza
> Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650
> France
>
>

Re: [Pharo-users] running Pharo8 in Digitalocean

[Stéphane Ducasse]

thanks sven :)

pharoweekly.wordpress.com/2020/05/20/deployment-tips-from-the-pros/ 


S

> On 17 May 2020, at 20:28, Sven Van Caekenberghe  wrote:
> 
> Hi Sanjay,
> 
> When you do a metacello configuration or baseline install with the command 
> line tools, the image is saved automatically at the end (if the load is 
> successful).
> 
> My current approach is described here
> 
> https://github.com/svenvc/minimal-pharo-server-tools 
> 
> 
> which is a newer version of
> 
> https://github.com/svenvc/pharo-server-tools 
> 
> 
> Much of this goes beyond Pharo and requires some Unix/Linux knowledge, but it 
> is all standard stuff.
> 
> Sven


Stéphane Ducasse
http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr / http://www.pharo.org 
03 59 35 87 52
Assistant: Julie Jonas 
FAX 03 59 57 78 50
TEL 03 59 35 86 16
S. Ducasse - Inria
40, avenue Halley, 
Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, Bât.A, Park Plaza
Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650
France

Re: [Pharo-users] Spec2 Pharo8/9; icons

[Stéphane Ducasse]

Hello Tomaz

> Dear all,
> 
> What would be the best Pharo version to start building a Spec2 GUI for an app 
> - Pharo 9 which is under development but with novelties in Spec2, or Pharo 8?

I would go for P9. It may be a bit shaky from time to time but for example you 
can milestoned your image and if the next one is shaky you wait. 
We are always developing in bleeding edge so eating our own dog food (and p9 
has been nice so far). 

Just now we got Spec20 0.6 and it contains many improvements. 
I hope to be able to start to code some mini tutorial (learning myself and 
writing what I’m learning). 

> What's the best (easiest ...) way to import new icons into Smalltalk ui 
> icons? Is there any special bitmap format to be considered?

png is better and there is a library to manage icons
I do not have the name but you can load icons. 
But look around. 

> 
> Thanks and best wishes,
> Tomaz


Stéphane Ducasse
http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr / http://www.pharo.org 
03 59 35 87 52
Assistant: Julie Jonas 
FAX 03 59 57 78 50
TEL 03 59 35 86 16
S. Ducasse - Inria
40, avenue Halley, 
Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, Bât.A, Park Plaza
Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650
France

Re: [Pharo-users] New user

[Stéphane Ducasse]

> On 20 May 2020, at 18:59, G B  wrote:
> 
> 
> From: G B 
> Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] New user
> Date: 20 May 2020 at 18:59:15 CEST
> To: Any question about pharo is welcome 
> 
> 
> Thank you all for your comments.  I'm using Pharo on Windows and I 
> uninstalled it completely and reinstalled, so I will use your suggestions.
> 
> Another question, if I may, is what order of books should I use?  I purchased 
> "Pharo 5 by Example" (because it was newer than "Pharo by Example," "Learning 
> Object-Oriented Programming, Design, and TDD with Pharo," "Deep Into Pharo" 
> (which I know would be after PBE), and "Enterprise Pharo" (which would 
> probably be after Deep into Pharo).

You mentioned that you know how to program so in a couple of days you should 
get up to speed. 
Our data is that 3rd students takes two weeks and I know people that did the 
mooc in speed run in two days. 

I would follow the mooc. 
You will get much faster and there is an image 32 that is in sync with the mooc 
version. 
The mooc is of excellent quality because we put 10 years of teaching experience 
in it. 

We are working on a mooc version with Pharo by Example 80. 
We are about to release 70 new videos of scenarios around Pharo 80. 
Just verifying the titles of such slides and videos take time. 

Then you can read in diagonal Pharo by Example (I hope to get some time to 
update chapter 3 this week-end). 
After I would read in diagonal some chapters there and there and ask questions. 

I think that in a couple of days you should get up to start developing a small 
app. 
You do not need to know everything. 

In PBE8 there are two new chapters on Pharo and git. To get started. 

Deep into Pharo is not really needed. This is more extra knowledge and I’m 
currently updating some chapters for 
P8. 

I extracted the Zinc HTTP chapters, but you can develop seaside without caring 
about http. 
To get started you need to know how to define a class and a method. 

S. 

Re: [Pharo-users] New user

[Stéphane Ducasse]

Https does not requires ssh keys.

S. 

> On 20 May 2020, at 06:02, Ben Coman  wrote:
> 
> Something I'm not quite sure on, is whether using
>  repository: 'github://'rather than a HTTPS connection requires 
> SSH keys to set up.
> Presuming so, you should first ensure you SSH is working from the command 
> lineper...https://help.github.com/en/github/authenticating-to-github/testing-your-ssh-connection(I
>  
> 
>  think a facility to do a similar user-check from within Pharo would be 
> extremely useful.) 
> 
> Next, if you are on Windows, the added complexity is that "Use Custom Keys" 
> must be enabled.(And it would be useful if that was the default for Windows. 
> I trip over it _every_ time I start a new image.) 
> 
> 
> cheers -ben
> 
> 
> On Wed, 20 May 2020 at 06:38, G B via Pharo-users 
> mailto:pharo-users@lists.pharo.org>> wrote:
> I am new to Pharo and liked that it is a cleaned up and modern Smalltalk, but 
> I think I'm done before I ever started.  My biggest interest was in Seaside, 
> yet trying to install it from instructions on the Seaside GitHub fails:
> 
> Metacello new
>  baseline:'Seaside3';
>  repository: 'github://SeasideSt/Seaside:master/repository';
>  load
> 
> Trying to load packages from the catalog browser like Magritte fails. Some 
> packages aren't updated for 8.0 and are only available for 7.0.  Some are 
> only available for 4.0.  Trying to follow the book for creating a blog has ha 
> me spend time trying to get something going to no avail.
> 
> I'm not an expert programmer, but I've been in IT for 25 years and can do 
> some C, Racket, Pascal, shell languages, awk, Perl, but I am stymied at every 
> turn with Pharo.
> 
> 


Stéphane Ducasse
http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr / http://www.pharo.org 
03 59 35 87 52
Assistant: Julie Jonas 
FAX 03 59 57 78 50
TEL 03 59 35 86 16
S. Ducasse - Inria
40, avenue Halley, 
Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, Bât.A, Park Plaza
Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650
France

Re: [Pharo-users] New user

[Stéphane Ducasse]

> 
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I feel your pain.

> Updated, consistent and centralized documentation is not strong in Pharo.

I cannot let you say that sorry :)

We have a mooc with more than 100 videos
We have books that are maintained. This is not by accident or fun that I spent 
time updating Pharo by Example 
and creating a collection of booklets. We regularly update them.
We have lectures.
We have a single wiki with documentation.


> Things are changing fast and docs don't catch up, also there is an effort to 
> move projects to github, so usually updated stuff are there. I never use 
> Catalog anymore because often things goes wrong. Books are only good to 
> explain major concepts that are less likely to change over time, in order to 
> getting started I would recommend:
> 
> 1- Seaside github project: https://github.com/SeasideSt/Seaside 
> . Their readme and wiki page seems to 
> be very good and updated, I just evaluated this on playground and it worked 
> as expected:
> 
> Metacello new
>  baseline:'Seaside3';
>  repository: 'github://SeasideSt/Seaside:v3.4.1/repository';
>  load
> 
> I avoid using master tag as it is usually development branch or frequently 
> has some commit that breaks everything up and and what I want is something 
> reliable, so I always use version tags (when the projects provides one). 
> 
> After that, I think using the wiki (https://github.com/SeasideSt/Seaside/wiki 
> ) or seaside web book 
> (http://book.seaside.st/book ) can get you 
> through all you need to know.
> 
> 2- Pharo open documentation is a much better place to be getting started with 
> Pharo: https://github.com/pharo-open-documentation/pharo-wiki 
> 
> 
> 3- Then you can go and read Pharo by Example and Deep in Pharo books in order 
> to get more information after you can get started, if you are interest, but 
> by now you must be able to do most basic stuff with the system..
> 
> Hope that helps you getting by and fuel you interest in Smalltalk and Pharo.
> 
> Regars,
> Vitor
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 7:38 PM G B via Pharo-users 
> mailto:pharo-users@lists.pharo.org>> wrote:
> I am new to Pharo and liked that it is a cleaned up and modern Smalltalk, but 
> I think I'm done before I ever started.  My biggest interest was in Seaside, 
> yet trying to install it from instructions on the Seaside GitHub fails:
> 
> Metacello new
>  baseline:'Seaside3';
>  repository: 'github://SeasideSt/Seaside:master/repository';
>  load
> 
> Trying to load packages from the catalog browser like Magritte fails. Some 
> packages aren't updated for 8.0 and are only available for 7.0.  Some are 
> only available for 4.0.  Trying to follow the book for creating a blog has ha 
> me spend time trying to get something going to no avail.
> 
> I'm not an expert programmer, but I've been in IT for 25 years and can do 
> some C, Racket, Pascal, shell languages, awk, Perl, but I am stymied at every 
> turn with Pharo.
> 
> 


Stéphane Ducasse
http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr / http://www.pharo.org 
03 59 35 87 52
Assistant: Julie Jonas 
FAX 03 59 57 78 50
TEL 03 59 35 86 16
S. Ducasse - Inria
40, avenue Halley, 
Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, Bât.A, Park Plaza
Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650
France

Re: [Pharo-users] Refactor without formatting

[Stéphane Ducasse]

There is what we would love to have and there is what we have. 
It is difficult to conserve the formatting of the original method especially on 
extract 
or more generally on code transformation. 
Now it does not mean that we like it this way. 
But given the ratio income/results I think that Pharo is super super good. 

But but 
people can help 
people can pay for more. 

S. 

> On 19 May 2020, at 19:33, Vitor Medina Cruz  wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> When I run a refactoring, Rename Method, for example, the refactoring is 
> reformatting the code affected. Is it possible to configure Pharo to refactor 
> without reformatting code? Depending on the refactoring, the reformat is so 
> intrusive that make it more worth to make the refactoring by hand.
> 
> Regards,
> Vitor


Stéphane Ducasse
http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr / http://www.pharo.org 
03 59 35 87 52
Assistant: Julie Jonas 
FAX 03 59 57 78 50
TEL 03 59 35 86 16
S. Ducasse - Inria
40, avenue Halley, 
Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, Bât.A, Park Plaza
Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650
France

Re: [Pharo-users] Refactor without formatting

[Stéphane Ducasse]

> 
> Yeah, that's why I think it would be great if the RB engine could be extended 
> with a(n optional) hook to call some "local/personal" formatter instead of 
> reformatting immediately. This way we could at least make sure that the 
> reformatting happens according to our taste and in line with whatever we use 
> to format our code. Preserving the old formatting is likely to not be a good 
> idea at least for some refactorings lie extract method, in addition to 
> possibly being difficult.
> 
> The plus of such a plugin/hook approach is that this could probably be 
> maintainable cross-platform. Every dialect could plug their formatter without 
> changing RBs internals. I don't know if there still exists some "common code 
> base" of RB at all, so maybe this is just stupid blah blah anyways…
> 


But this is the case. 
You can pass to the pharo formatter a context and the setting browser shows you 
the formatting options. 

> 
> Joachim 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> cheers -ben
>>> 
>>> On Wed, 20 May 2020 at 01:34, Vitor Medina Cruz >> > wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>> 
>>> When I run a refactoring, Rename Method, for example, the refactoring is 
>>> reformatting the code affected. Is it possible to configure Pharo to 
>>> refactor without reformatting code? Depending on the refactoring, the 
>>> reformat is so intrusive that make it more worth to make the refactoring by 
>>> hand.
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> Vitor
>> 
> 
> -- 
> ---
> Objektfabrik Joachim Tuchel  mailto:jtuc...@objektfabrik.de 
> 
> Fliederweg 1 http://www.objektfabrik.de 
> 
> D-71640 Ludwigsburg  http://joachimtuchel.wordpress.com 
> 
> Telefon: +49 7141 56 10 86 0 Fax: +49 7141 56 10 86 1
> 
> 
> 


Stéphane Ducasse
http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr / http://www.pharo.org 
03 59 35 87 52
Assistant: Julie Jonas 
FAX 03 59 57 78 50
TEL 03 59 35 86 16
S. Ducasse - Inria
40, avenue Halley, 
Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, Bât.A, Park Plaza
Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650
France

Re: [Pharo-users] New user

[G B via Pharo-users]

--- Begin Message ---
 Thank you all for your comments.  I'm using Pharo on Windows and I uninstalled 
it completely and reinstalled, so I will use your suggestions.
Another question, if I may, is what order of books should I use?  I purchased 
"Pharo 5 by Example" (because it was newer than "Pharo by Example," "Learning 
Object-Oriented Programming, Design, and TDD with Pharo," "Deep Into Pharo" 
(which I know would be after PBE), and "Enterprise Pharo" (which would probably 
be after Deep into Pharo).
Thank you.

On Wednesday, May 20, 2020, 6:19:25 AM CDT, Vitor Medina Cruz 
 wrote:  
 
 
Something I'm not quite sure on, is whether using                 repository: 
'github://'rather than a HTTPS connection requires SSH keys to set up.

There is no need of SSH keys setup. 

On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 2:02 AM Vince Refiti  
wrote:


Hi

 

I prefer to clone every repo I use locally.

 

I just did this with Seaside and then used Iceberg to load it into a new Pharo8 
image and it worked.

 

Vince

 

From: Pharo-users On Behalf Of Vitor 
Medina Cruz
Sent: Wednesday, 20 May 2020 12:27 PM
To: Any question about pharo is welcome 
Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] New user

 

EXTERNAL: Do not click links or open attachments if you do not recognize the 
sender.

 

Hello,

 

I feel your pain.

 

Updated, consistent and centralized documentation is not strong in Pharo. 
Things are changing fast and docs don't catch up, also there is an effort to 
move projects to github, so usually updated stuff are there. I never use 
Catalog anymore because often things goes wrong. Books are only good to explain 
major concepts that are less likely to change over time, in order to getting 
started I would recommend:

 

1- Seaside github project: https://github.com/SeasideSt/Seaside. Their readme 
and wiki page seems to be very good and updated, I just evaluated this on 
playground and it worked as expected:

 

Metacello new
 baseline:'Seaside3';
 repository: 'github://SeasideSt/Seaside:v3.4.1/repository';
 load

 

I avoid using master tag as it is usually development branch or frequently has 
some commit that breaks everything up and and what I want is something 
reliable, so I always use version tags (when the projects provides one). 

 

After that, I think using the wiki (https://github.com/SeasideSt/Seaside/wiki) 
or seaside web book (http://book.seaside.st/book) can get you through all you 
need to know.

 

2- Pharo open documentation is a much better place to be getting started with 
Pharo:https://github.com/pharo-open-documentation/pharo-wiki

 

3- Then you can go and read Pharo by Example and Deep in Pharo books in order 
to get more information after you can get started, if you are interest, but by 
now you must be able to do most basic stuff with the system..

 

Hope that helps you getting by and fuel you interest in Smalltalk and Pharo.

 

Regars,

Vitor

 

 

 

On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 7:38 PM G B via Pharo-users 
 wrote:


I am new to Pharo and liked that it is a cleaned up and modern Smalltalk, but I 
think I'm done before I ever started.  My biggest interest was in Seaside, yet 
trying to install it from instructions on the Seaside GitHub fails:

 

Metacellonew
baseline:'Seaside3';
repository:'github://SeasideSt/Seaside:master/repository';
load

 

Trying to load packages from the catalog browser like Magritte fails. Some 
packages aren't updated for 8.0 and are only available for 7.0.  Some are only 
available for 4.0.  Trying to follow the book for creating a blog has ha me 
spend time trying to get something going to no avail.

 

I'm not an expert programmer, but I've been in IT for 25 years and can do some 
C, Racket, Pascal, shell languages, awk, Perl, but I am stymied at every turn 
with Pharo.

 

 


  --- End Message ---

Re: [Pharo-users] New user

[Stéphane Ducasse]

Hi patrick 

Welcome. 
I do not use Seaside recently but I know that many many people. 
There is a online channel about seasiders in the Pharo discord channel. 
May be you should post there to get a fast answer. 
Did you look at the mooc?

If you need some help with the setup we can have a screen sharing session. 
S.

> On 20 May 2020, at 00:37, G B  wrote:
> 
> 
> From: G B 
> Subject: New user
> Date: 20 May 2020 at 00:37:12 CEST
> To: Any Question About Pharo Is Welcome 
> 
> 
> I am new to Pharo and liked that it is a cleaned up and modern Smalltalk, but 
> I think I'm done before I ever started.  My biggest interest was in Seaside, 
> yet trying to install it from instructions on the Seaside GitHub fails:
> 
> Metacello new
>  baseline:'Seaside3';
>  repository: 'github://SeasideSt/Seaside:master/repository';
>  load
> 
> Trying to load packages from the catalog browser like Magritte fails. Some 
> packages aren't updated for 8.0 and are only available for 7.0.  Some are 
> only available for 4.0.  Trying to follow the book for creating a blog has ha 
> me spend time trying to get something going to no avail.
> 
> I'm not an expert programmer, but I've been in IT for 25 years and can do 
> some C, Racket, Pascal, shell languages, awk, Perl, but I am stymied at every 
> turn with Pharo.
> 
> 
> 
> 


Stéphane Ducasse
http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr / http://www.pharo.org 
03 59 35 87 52
Assistant: Julie Jonas 
FAX 03 59 57 78 50
TEL 03 59 35 86 16
S. Ducasse - Inria
40, avenue Halley, 
Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, Bât.A, Park Plaza
Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650
France

Re: [Pharo-users] UK Smalltalk User Group Meeting - Wednesday, May 27th

[Stéphane Ducasse]

> On 20 May 2020, at 13:38, Giovanni Corriga  wrote:
> 
>   The next meeting of the UK Smalltalk User Group will be on Wednesday, May 
> 27th.
> 
> Alan Jackson will talk to us about Kyma ( https://kyma.symbolicsound.com/ 
>  ) an object-oriented sound design 
> environment built with Smalltalk technology.

Kyma looks super cool.
I would love to see kyma running on our lovely system. 

> 
> Given the current COVID-19 restrictions, this will be an online meeting.
> 
> If you'd like to join us, please sign up in advance at the meeting Meetup's 
> page https://www.meetup.com/UKSTUG/events/cbklbrybchbkc/ 
>  to obtain the meeting 
> details.
> 
> See you there!


Stéphane Ducasse
http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr / http://www.pharo.org 
03 59 35 87 52
Assistant: Julie Jonas 
FAX 03 59 57 78 50
TEL 03 59 35 86 16
S. Ducasse - Inria
40, avenue Halley, 
Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, Bât.A, Park Plaza
Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650
France

[Pharo-users] UK Smalltalk User Group Meeting - Wednesday, May 27th

[Giovanni Corriga]

  The next meeting of the UK Smalltalk User Group will be on Wednesday, May
27th.

Alan Jackson will talk to us about Kyma ( https://kyma.symbolicsound.com/ )
an object-oriented sound design environment built with Smalltalk technology.

Given the current COVID-19 restrictions, this will be an online meeting.

If you'd like to join us, please sign up in advance at the meeting Meetup's
page https://www.meetup.com/UKSTUG/events/cbklbrybchbkc/ to obtain the
meeting details.

See you there!

Re: [Pharo-users] Refactor without formatting

[Vitor Medina Cruz]

Hello,

Thanks for the reply.

Yes, for me this behavior happens since ever. I can open an issue, but I
will not be able to pinpoint the VCS commit where this behavior was
introduced...

One thing I don't understand is why reformat is needed in some refactor
cases? I have never seen this behavior in any other IDE I have used. For
example, why extract method should reformat the entire method? Shouldn't it
replace the code extracted with the new message send? Sure, the new message
sent replacing the old code might be formatted according to the default
formatting configuration, but why does the refactoring process need to
touch the rest of the method code? Also, the old code needs only to be
pasted in the new method with some changes, does it need to be reformated?

Regards,
Vitor


On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 6:52 AM jtuc...@objektfabrik.de <
jtuc...@objektfabrik.de> wrote:

> Am 20.05.20 um 10:45 schrieb Guillermo Polito:
>
> Hi,
>
> El 20 may 2020, a las 1:54, Ben Coman  escribió:
>
> That seems to violate the Principal Of Least Surprise.
>
>
> Yes, I happen to also not like that behaviour :(
>
>
> me too. Although I am not on Pharo ;-)
>
>
> Whether or not it ends up getting changed, I think its worthwhile entering
> that directly in the issue tracker.
> It would assist if you could bisect to isolate which commit introduced the
> behaviour.
>
>
> Opening an issue is a good start.
>
> I also wonder, I think refactorings work like this since the beginning?
>
> At least for the last 15 years.
>
> But if it was introduced at some point, it should be nice to know if it
> can be easily reverted.
>
> Also, refactorings DO need to rebuild the source code after refactoring,
> so maybe there are some cases where maintaining the old formatting is
> difficult?
>
>
> Yeah, that's why I think it would be great if the RB engine could be
> extended with a(n optional) hook to call some "local/personal" formatter
> instead of reformatting immediately. This way we could at least make sure
> that the reformatting happens according to our taste and in line with
> whatever we use to format our code. Preserving the old formatting is likely
> to not be a good idea at least for some refactorings lie extract method, in
> addition to possibly being difficult.
>
> The plus of such a plugin/hook approach is that this could probably be
> maintainable cross-platform. Every dialect could plug their formatter
> without changing RBs internals. I don't know if there still exists some
> "common code base" of RB at all, so maybe this is just stupid blah blah
> anyways...
>
>
> Joachim
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> cheers -ben
>
> On Wed, 20 May 2020 at 01:34, Vitor Medina Cruz 
> wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> When I run a refactoring, Rename Method, for example, the refactoring is
>> reformatting the code affected. Is it possible to configure Pharo to
>> refactor without reformatting code? Depending on the refactoring, the
>> reformat is so intrusive that make it more worth to make the refactoring by
>> hand.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Vitor
>>
>
>
> --
> ---
> Objektfabrik Joachim Tuchel  mailto:jtuc...@objektfabrik.de 
> 
> Fliederweg 1 http://www.objektfabrik.de
> D-71640 Ludwigsburg  http://joachimtuchel.wordpress.com
> Telefon: +49 7141 56 10 86 0 Fax: +49 7141 56 10 86 1
>
>
>
>

Re: [Pharo-users] New user

[Vitor Medina Cruz]

>
> Something I'm not quite sure on, is whether using
>  repository: 'github://'rather than a HTTPS connection
> requires SSH keys to set up.
>

There is no need of SSH keys setup.

On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 2:02 AM Vince Refiti <
vince.ref...@trapezegroup.com.au> wrote:

> Hi
>
>
>
> I prefer to clone every repo I use locally.
>
>
>
> I just did this with Seaside and then used Iceberg to load it into a new
> Pharo8 image and it worked.
>
>
>
> Vince
>
>
>
> *From:* Pharo-users  *On Behalf Of *Vitor
> Medina Cruz
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 20 May 2020 12:27 PM
> *To:* Any question about pharo is welcome 
> *Subject:* Re: [Pharo-users] New user
>
>
>
> *EXTERNAL: Do not click links or open attachments if you do not recognize
> the sender.*
>
>
>
> Hello,
>
>
>
> I feel your pain.
>
>
>
> Updated, consistent and centralized documentation is not strong in Pharo.
> Things are changing fast and docs don't catch up, also there is an effort
> to move projects to github, so usually updated stuff are there. I never use
> Catalog anymore because often things goes wrong. Books are only good to
> explain major concepts that are less likely to change over time, in order
> to getting started I would recommend:
>
>
>
> 1- Seaside github project: https://github.com/SeasideSt/Seaside
> .
> Their readme and wiki page seems to be very good and updated, I just
> evaluated this on playground and it worked as expected:
>
>
>
> Metacello new
>  baseline:'Seaside3';
>  repository: 'github://SeasideSt/Seaside:v3.4.1/repository';
>  load
>
>
>
> I avoid using master tag as it is usually development branch or frequently
> has some commit that breaks everything up and and what I want is something
> reliable, so I always use version tags (when the projects provides one).
>
>
>
> After that, I think using the wiki (
> https://github.com/SeasideSt/Seaside/wiki
> )
> or seaside web book (http://book.seaside.st/book
> )
> can get you through all you need to know.
>
>
>
> 2- Pharo open documentation is a much better place to be getting started
> with Pharo: https://github.com/pharo-open-documentation/pharo-wiki
> 
>
>
>
> 3- Then you can go and read Pharo by Example and Deep in Pharo books in
> order to get more information after you can get started, if you are
> interest, but by now you must be able to do most basic stuff with the
> system..
>
>
>
> Hope that helps you getting by and fuel you interest in Smalltalk and
> Pharo.
>
>
>
> Regars,
>
> Vitor
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 7:38 PM G B via Pharo-users <
> pharo-users@lists.pharo.org> wrote:
>
> I am new to Pharo and liked that it is a cleaned up and modern Smalltalk,
> but I think I'm done before I ever started.  My biggest interest was in
> Seaside, yet trying to install it from instructions on the Seaside GitHub
> fails:
>
>
>
> Metacello new
> baseline:'Seaside3';
> repository: 'github://SeasideSt/Seaside:master/repository';
> load
>
>
>
> Trying to load packages from the catalog browser like Magritte fails. Some
> packages aren't updated for 8.0 and are only available for 7.0.  Some are
> only available for 4.0.  Trying to follow the book for creating a blog has
> ha me spend time trying to get something going to no avail.
>
>
>
> I'm not an expert programmer, but I've been in IT for 25 years and can do
> some C, Racket, Pascal, shell languages, awk, Perl, but I am stymied at
> every turn with Pharo.
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [Pharo-users] Refactor without formatting

[jtuc...@objektfabrik.de]

Am 20.05.20 um 10:45 schrieb Guillermo Polito:

Hi,

El 20 may 2020, a las 1:54, Ben Coman > escribió:


That seems to violate the Principal Of Least Surprise.


Yes, I happen to also not like that behaviour :(



me too. Although I am not on Pharo ;-)



Whether or not it ends up getting changed, I think its worthwhile 
entering that directly in the issue tracker.
It would assist if you could bisect to isolate which commit 
introduced the behaviour.


Opening an issue is a good start.

I also wonder, I think refactorings work like this since the beginning?

At least for the last 15 years.
But if it was introduced at some point, it should be nice to know if 
it can be easily reverted.


Also, refactorings DO need to rebuild the source code after 
refactoring, so maybe there are some cases where maintaining the old 
formatting is difficult?



Yeah, that's why I think it would be great if the RB engine could be 
extended with a(n optional) hook to call some "local/personal" formatter 
instead of reformatting immediately. This way we could at least make 
sure that the reformatting happens according to our taste and in line 
with whatever we use to format our code. Preserving the old formatting 
is likely to not be a good idea at least for some refactorings lie 
extract method, in addition to possibly being difficult.


The plus of such a plugin/hook approach is that this could probably be 
maintainable cross-platform. Every dialect could plug their formatter 
without changing RBs internals. I don't know if there still exists some 
"common code base" of RB at all, so maybe this is just stupid blah blah 
anyways...



Joachim









cheers -ben

On Wed, 20 May 2020 at 01:34, Vitor Medina Cruz > wrote:


Hello,

When I run a refactoring, Rename Method, for example, the
refactoring is reformatting the code affected. Is it possible to
configure Pharo to refactor without reformatting code? Depending
on the refactoring, the reformat is so intrusive that make it
more worth to make the refactoring by hand.

Regards,
Vitor





--
---
Objektfabrik Joachim Tuchel  mailto:jtuc...@objektfabrik.de
Fliederweg 1 http://www.objektfabrik.de
D-71640 Ludwigsburg  http://joachimtuchel.wordpress.com
Telefon: +49 7141 56 10 86 0 Fax: +49 7141 56 10 86 1

Re: [Pharo-users] Refactor without formatting

[Guillermo Polito]

Hi,

> El 20 may 2020, a las 1:54, Ben Coman  escribió:
> 
> That seems to violate the Principal Of Least Surprise.

Yes, I happen to also not like that behaviour :(

> Whether or not it ends up getting changed, I think its worthwhile entering 
> that directly in the issue tracker.
> It would assist if you could bisect to isolate which commit introduced the 
> behaviour.

Opening an issue is a good start.

I also wonder, I think refactorings work like this since the beginning?
But if it was introduced at some point, it should be nice to know if it can be 
easily reverted.

Also, refactorings DO need to rebuild the source code after refactoring, so 
maybe there are some cases where maintaining the old formatting is difficult?

> 
> cheers -ben
> 
> On Wed, 20 May 2020 at 01:34, Vitor Medina Cruz  > wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> When I run a refactoring, Rename Method, for example, the refactoring is 
> reformatting the code affected. Is it possible to configure Pharo to refactor 
> without reformatting code? Depending on the refactoring, the reformat is so 
> intrusive that make it more worth to make the refactoring by hand.
> 
> Regards,
> Vitor

Re: [Pharo-users] Siren 9.0 Released

[Richard O'Keefe]

Cincom still has a "Personal Use Licence".
http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/main/community/product-portal/trying-cincom-smalltalk/personal-use-license/
I am running vw8.3pul, and
file ~/vw8.3pul/bin/linuxx86_64/visual
/home/ok/vw8.3pul/bin/linuxx86_64/visual: ELF 64-bit LSB executable,
x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked, interpreter
/lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2, for GNU/Linux 2.6.9, stripped
it is 64-bit.
The paid version of VW is up to 9.0, but 8.3 works for me.


On Fri, 15 May 2020 at 08:16, Stéphane Ducasse 
wrote:

> Thanks Steven this is cool to see that Siren is living and kicking.
> Last year I was browsing the old site and I was sad because I thought it
> was dead.
> Your OSC looks better than the one in Pharo even if we used it
> successfully to connect interactive tables with a HCI research group.
>
> If you need help to migrate from VW let us know because it would be great
> to have Siren working in Pharo.
> I did not see any Unit tests and the tests saved us when we migrated
> Moose. Sometimes we even only kept them because they were
> better than the implementation. It took us around six months and we got
> free :)
> And we have some contacts that would be interested in London. We could put
> you in contact.
>
> Now just some questions and you may know the answer so I ask
>
> I was thinking but I may be totally wrong that it was forbidden to give VW
> images and that the current license
> was for personal use only. Long time ago the shrink process was removing
> the compiler. Now I saw that your image is 42mb.
>
> Personally I do not want to download any VisualWorks distribution and sign
> their licenses because I want to stay cristal clear
> on ANY license and possible issues. I did not look at Visualworks since
> 2008 and I feel clean and I will stay like that.
>
> So I imagine that I’m not allowed to use your software. I’m not good in
> music sadly so there is no frustration from my side.
>
> You mention that people can use a non-commercial version of VW but this
> license does not exist anymore.
> Is there a 64 bits version of VW because VW7.5 starts to show its age and
> on recent mac you only have 64 bits.
>
>
> Some people may think that we are just over the top on open-source but
> this is not by accident that we took the responsibility to create Pharo.
> We could not distribute Moose our open-source platform so after 10 years
> of hard work we had to do something. And we created Pharo.
> And the problem we got were with the previous version (the non commercial)
> of the Cincom license and the new one is even more restrictive.
> Some friends of mine told me that some lawyers were starting to get picky
> and send letters around.
> So watch out.
>
> BTW I did not see the license of Siren on the git repo. If I may suggest
> one,
> BSD/MIT are nice, avoid GPL because it means that nobody serious on
> Smalltalk will ever look at your system and contribute.
>
> S.
>
> On 14 May 2020, at 01:40, step...@heaveneverywhere.com wrote:
>
>
> Hello all,
>
> The Siren system is a general-purpose framework for music and sound
> composition, processing, performance, and analysis; it is a collection of
> about 350 classes written in Smalltalk-80 (40 kLOC or so). Siren 9.0 works
> on VisualWorks Smalltalk (though the bulk has been ported to other dialects
> as well); Siren supports streaming I/O via OpenSoundControl (OSC), MIDI,
> and multi-channel audio ports. The Siren release is available via the web
> from the URL http://FASTLabInc.com/Siren .
>
> Siren is a programming framework and tool kit; the intended audience is
> Smalltalk developers, or users willing to learn Smalltalk in order to write
> their own applications. The built-in applications are meant as
> demonstrations of the use of the libraries, rather than as end-user
> applications. Siren is not a MIDI sequencer, nor a score notation editor,
> through both of these applications would be easy to implement with the
> Siren framework.
>
> There are several elements to Siren:
>
> * the Smoke music representation language (music magnitudes, events, event
> lists, generators, functions, and sounds);
>
> * voices, schedulers and I/O drivers (real-time and file-based voices,
> sound, score file, OSC, and MIDI I/O);
>
> * user interface components for musical applications (UI framework, tools,
> and widgets);
>
> * several built-in applications  (editors and browsers for Smoke objects);
> and
>
> * external library interfaces for streaming I/O and DSP math (sound/MIDI
> I/O, fast FFT, CSL & Loris sound analysis/resynthesis packages )
>
> The best in-depth doc (book chapter) is in,
> http://FASTLabInc.com/Siren/Doc/SirenBookChapter.pdf
> 
>
> The read the demo code workbook (this text), go to,
> http://FASTLabInc.com/Siren/Siren7.5.Workbook.html
> 
> or
> http://FASTLabInc.com/Siren/Siren7.5.Workbook.pdf
>