RE: [PHP-DEV] Discourage use of short tags

[Lukas Smith]

Well the point for me is that I want "clean php code" (the relevant part
of my definition of what this is for me should be apparent by the rest
of the email) when I see a script starting with " -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 6:05 PM
> To: Yasuo Ohgaki; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Discourage use of short tags
> 
> Addressed to: Yasuo Ohgaki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> ** Reply to note from Yasuo Ohgaki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sat, 27 Apr
2002
> 07:47:08 +0900
> >
> > I've changed basic-syntax.xml a little. The manual list short tag
first,
> > even if it recommends  >
> > Anyway, I would like to add something like
> >
> >   Use of short tag is strongly discouraged. It not only
> > non-portable and non-XML compliant, but also a obsolete feature.

> > 
> >
> > There are too many hosting services that enable short tag by
default. In
> > many case, user cannot do anything..
> >
> > Any comments?
> 
> -maxint!
> 
> 
> IM(ns)HO  There aren't enough hosting services that support short
tags!
> 
> If you don't like them don't use them, but don't force me to follow
your
> programming rules.  Short tags have been available for a long time,
and
> work just fine, thank you.
> 
> 
> I also strongly prefer  them.  I use them and have a large code base that uses them
extensively,
> and don't intend to change.  Please don't try to force me to change to
> follow your code standards when what I'm doing has been part of the
> language much longer than you've been around this forum.
> 
> Grrr!
> 
> 
> Rick
> 
> Rick Widmer
> Internet Marketing Specialists
> http://www.developersdesk.com
> 
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Re: [PHP-DEV] Discourage use of short tags

[php4]

** Reply to note from Zeev Suraski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sat, 27 Apr 2002 05:52:11 +0300
>   
> I don't think we should do it in PHP 5 either. 


I strongly agree!



Rick

Rick Widmer
Internet Marketing Specialists
http://www.developersdesk.com

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[PHP-DEV] socket_create() doesn't expose error if one occurs [CVS HEAD]

[Markus Fischer]

Hi,

socket_create() doesn't expose an error if one occurs when
creating a new socket with socket(). The current code is:

[...]
php_sock->bsd_socket = socket(arg1, arg2, arg3);
php_sock->type = arg1;

if (IS_INVALID_SOCKET(php_sock)) {
efree(php_sock);
RETURN_FALSE;
}

ZEND_REGISTER_RESOURCE(return_value, php_sock, le_socket);
}

This logic silently hides the error if we encounter one
during socket creating.


Since the current socket error reporting facility only
operates with a valid socket resource context we have a
limitation here because obviously there's no valid socket
resource context here (false is returned and we don't have
the socket resource yet).


Suggestion:
Introduce a (per thread) global variable which always stores
the error message of the last socket function which failed
and teach socket_last_error() to return this value if no
resource is passed to it, e.g.:

if (false == (socket_create(...))) {
echo "Failed, reason:", socket_strerror(socket_last_error()), "\n";
[...]
}

To be consistent with the other socket_*() functions I also
suggest emitting an E_WARNING message if it fails (basically
all other functions have been rewritten this way).

I haven't included a patch because it's rather trivial.

Any objections or better suggestions how to handle this?

- Markus

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Re: [PHP-DEV] socket_create() doesn't expose error if one occurs (nor does socket_select)

[Markus Fischer]

Hi,

This is an addition to my last mail.

I just saw that socket_select() basically suffers from the
same problem (programmatically catching the error == not
possible). This function would also benefit from the
suggested behaviour to store the last error in a global error
variable.

- Markus

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Re: [PHP-DEV] Discourage use of short tags

[Stefan Esser]

Hi,


Removing the short tags from future php releases, 
or disabling them by default, is like stripping functions
from glibc because they do not exist on other platforms.


Stefan


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[PHP-DEV] Re: [ZEND-ENGINE-CVS] cvs: Zend / zend_execute_API.c

[Sebastian Bergmann]

Rasmus Lerdorf wrote:
> rasmus  Sat Apr 27 10:07:35 2002 EDT
>
>   Modified files:
> /Zend   zend_execute_API.c
>   Log:
>   Fix for #14542

c:\home\php\php4\Zend\zend_execute_API.c(666): warning C4013:
'PG' undefined

c:\home\php\php4\Zend\zend_execute_API.c(666): error C2065:
'connection_status': Undeclared identifier

c:\home\php\php4\Zend\zend_execute_API.c(666): error C2065:
'PHP_CONNECTION_TIMEOUT': Undeclared identifier

c:\home\php\php4\Zend\zend_execute_API.c(666): error C2106:
'|=': Left operand not an l-value

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[PHP-DEV] Re: [ZEND-ENGINE-CVS] cvs: Zend / zend_execute_API.c

[Sebastian Bergmann]

Rasmus Lerdorf wrote:
> rasmus  Sat Apr 27 12:21:00 2002 EDT
>
>   Modified files:
> /Zend   zend_execute_API.c
>   Log:
>   # How do I get at a php core_global from here?

  Isn't the Zend Engine supposed to be independent from PHP?

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[PHP-DEV] Removal of "php_fopen_wrapper" in HEAD will break binary modules between 4.2 and HEAD (4.3)

[Thies C. Arntzen]

  
hi,
is there any way we could avoid this?

i think we should aim for keeping binary compatiblity as long
as it makes sense. so, question is, would it make sense to
have a function called php_fopen_wrapper in HEAD that behaves
_exactly_ like it did in 4.2. elsewise we need to bump the
API number - whereby that wouldn't buy us anything real as
a 4.2 (binary) module woundn't even load up to that point
where PHP could give a decent error-message as the
shared-linker refuses to load it (atleast if the module uses
php_fopen_wrapper).

thoughts?
tc

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Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [ZEND-ENGINE-CVS] cvs: Zend / zend_execute_API.c

[Thies C. Arntzen]

On Sat, Apr 27, 2002 at 06:55:46PM +0200, Sebastian Bergmann wrote:
> Rasmus Lerdorf wrote:
> > rasmus  Sat Apr 27 12:21:00 2002 EDT
> >
> >   Modified files:
> > /Zend   zend_execute_API.c
> >   Log:
> >   # How do I get at a php core_global from here?
> 
>   Isn't the Zend Engine supposed to be independent from PHP?

ups. so we somehow need to tell zend that the connection
broke.

tc

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Re: [PHP-DEV] Removal of "php_fopen_wrapper" in HEAD will break binary modules between 4.2 and HEAD (4.3)

[Sterling Hughes]

>   
> hi,
> is there any way we could avoid this?
> 
> i think we should aim for keeping binary compatiblity as long
> as it makes sense. so, question is, would it make sense to
> have a function called php_fopen_wrapper in HEAD that behaves
> _exactly_ like it did in 4.2. elsewise we need to bump the
> API number - whereby that wouldn't buy us anything real as
> a 4.2 (binary) module woundn't even load up to that point
> where PHP could give a decent error-message as the
> shared-linker refuses to load it (atleast if the module uses
> php_fopen_wrapper).
> 
> thoughts?

While I think maintaining binary compatibility is a good thing 
(just like, peace, love, etc.), the removing of fopen_wrappers makes 
way for streams, which are not only über-cool, but also a quite a 
major change.  Mix that with the fact that the version number is increasing
quite steadily, I think we're safe to binary compat.  I know its a drag and 
annoying as hell, but its something that's better done sooner than later
(or rather, there is no advantage I can see to wait till later).

-Sterling


> tc
> 
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Re: [PHP-DEV]

[Stig S. Bakken]

On Sat, 2002-04-27 at 03:30, Zeev Suraski wrote:
> At 03:18 27/04/2002, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote:
> >It looks like we can.  I was assuming the SGML characteristics for XML and
> >it looks like I was wrong.  A '>' is ok inside the  tags.
> 
> Ok, so that's actually useful.  But it sounds odd - XML is not SGML compliant?

You should know about SGML that it can be configured beyond belief,
through the "SGML declaration".  You can change what characters in a
document are valid, what character sequences should be used to delimit
tags and almost everything else about the format.  Different DTDs can be
used with different SGML declarations, XML is used with one (try "locate
xml.dcl").  This generality is why XML came to be: writing a
fully-featured SGML parser required bat wings, toad spit and a black
cauldron.

 - Stig


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Re: [PHP-DEV]

[Stig S. Bakken]

On Fri, 2002-04-26 at 20:07, Sterling Hughes wrote:
> > Ok.  #1 is the first logical, technical reason I've seen against the
> > shorthand being fully implemented (though it begs the question why it was
> > partially implemented in the first place).
> > 
> > I'm not to knowledgeable about SGML specifics (and I can't afford to spend
> > $200+ for a copy of the spec so I can spend a few weeks learning it just for
> > this), so I can't go into that, but extending this to XML is a falacy,
> > because PHP comparison syntax breaks the XML spec.  I'm pretty sure that <%
> > echo $var %> (valid PHP) would cause most XML parsers to choke.
> > 
> 
> Just a guess, but when you say the alphabet, do you often say it as such:
> 
> a,b,d,e,c,f,g,i...
> 
> ?
> 
> Your argument shows you either don't know php, or don't know how to
> think.
> 
> The whole point of the  XML documents.  When short tags are disabled, commands such as <% echo
> 'HELLO'; %> don't work.  If you allow  syntax, it is not valid
> XML, which negates the point of having  
> > As for #2 there's no flaw with the logic until you assume that ' > is somehow inherently more readable than ' > opinion either way.
> > 
> 
> Perhaps if it were a computer making these assumptions, yes. But anyone with half a 
> brain can see that  is much easer to understand
> for someone with no programming experience, than: .
> 
> > By the time you get to #3, however, you've resorted to dreaming up new
> > unrequested language extensions, and references to 'magic' to support your
> > argument.  I, and others, would argue that ' > ' > 
> > If, as you imply, ' > very existance is proof that ' > were they allowed in the first place?  If they were implemented "due to
> > popular demand", why is popular demand not sufficient for ' > 
> 
> 42
> 
> > If you really do want some equivalent to your proposed ' > ?>', then I might suggest '', which I believe
> > would already work as '', ' > isset($foo)?$foo:$bar ?>'.
> >
> 
> Thanks for the tip, we didn't realize that.

Sterling, please don't be abusive in plural first person.  I for one
have no desire to be associated with the attitude exhibited.

 - Stig


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Re: [PHP-DEV]

[Zeev Suraski]

At 18:44 27/04/2002, Stig S. Bakken wrote:
>On Sat, 2002-04-27 at 03:30, Zeev Suraski wrote:
> > At 03:18 27/04/2002, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote:
> > >It looks like we can.  I was assuming the SGML characteristics for XML and
> > >it looks like I was wrong.  A '>' is ok inside the  tags.
> >
> > Ok, so that's actually useful.  But it sounds odd - XML is not SGML 
> compliant?
>
>You should know about SGML that it can be configured beyond belief,
>through the "SGML declaration".  You can change what characters in a
>document are valid, what character sequences should be used to delimit
>tags and almost everything else about the format.  Different DTDs can be
>used with different SGML declarations, XML is used with one (try "locate
>xml.dcl").  This generality is why XML came to be: writing a
>fully-featured SGML parser required bat wings, toad spit and a black
>cauldron.

I knew everything you said, except for the fact you can configure which 
characters are valid and which aren't :)

Thanks,

Zeev


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Re: [PHP-DEV]

[Stig S. Bakken]

Don't worry, you're not. :-)

 - Stig

On Sat, 2002-04-27 at 03:44, Zeev Suraski wrote:
> Yes, but I thought it was SGML compliant (as in, some sort of a subset of 
> SGML with lots of predefined rules, but still, falls into the SGML language 
> category).
> 
> But then, I could very well be wrong about this.
> 
> Zeev
> 
> At 05:37 27/04/2002, Andrew Lindeman wrote:
> >I'm pretty sure XML is a scaled down and easier to learn/work with version of
> >SGML.
> >
> >Correct me if I'm wrong
> >
> >--Andrew
> >
> >On Friday 26 April 2002 07:30 pm, Zeev Suraski wrote:
> > > At 03:18 27/04/2002, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote:
> > > >It looks like we can.  I was assuming the SGML characteristics for XML and
> > > >it looks like I was wrong.  A '>' is ok inside the  tags.
> > >
> > > Ok, so that's actually useful.  But it sounds odd - XML is not SGML
> > > compliant?
> > >
> > > Zeev
> >
> >--
> >"We all know Linux is great...it does infinite loops in 5 seconds."
> >(Linus Torvalds about the superiority of Linux on the Amterdam
> >Linux Symposium)
> 
> 
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Re: [PHP-DEV] Shared PHP library

[Markus Fischer]

Hi,

that would be great expandation of PHP. For example, TCL has
quite a nice interface to start an interpreter, (virtually)
compile a script into byte code, bind simple C types to TCL
variables, eval/call function in TCL and have the output in
the bound C variables ...

- Markus

ps: I'm certainly not the wiz for this task, just wanted to
add my cents ;-)

On Sat, Apr 20, 2002 at 10:53:27AM -0500, Andrei Zmievski wrote : 
> I would like to know if we can modify the build process to build and
> install a PHP library, without any SAPI modules, so that libphp.a and
> libphp.so get installed in the appropriate locations. I need this in
> order to develop PHP support for some applications, since they will need
> to link against these libraries. Who's the wiz to take on this little
> project?
> 
> -Andrei
> 
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[PHP-DEV] Who vote for this? (was Re: [PHP-DEV] Discourage use of short tags)

[Yasuo Ohgaki]

I really don't understand why we should keep short_tag=on. This
implies we have following _standard_ and _portable_ syntax for
all XML documents preprocessed by PHP.

' ?>

Who vote for this _standard_ and _portable_ syntax?

Don't forget to write why this syntax is good,
look great, etc.

--
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Re: [PHP-DEV] Who vote for this? (was Re: [PHP-DEV] Discourage use of short tags)

[Markus Fischer]

Hi,

Rasmus gave quiet a few examples as others did. I suggest
reading through the mails posted the lasty days about this
topic.

- Markus

On Sun, Apr 28, 2002 at 07:50:38AM +0900, Yasuo Ohgaki wrote : 
> I really don't understand why we should keep short_tag=on. This
> implies we have following _standard_ and _portable_ syntax for
> all XML documents preprocessed by PHP.
> 
> ' ?>
> 
> Who vote for this _standard_ and _portable_ syntax?
> 
> Don't forget to write why this syntax is good,
> look great, etc.
> 
> --
> Yasuo Ohgaki
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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[PHP-DEV] Re: cvs: php4 /ext/zlib zlib.c

[Yasuo Ohgaki]

Yasuo Ohgaki wrote:
> Thies C. Arntzen wrote:
> 
>> thiesSat Apr 27 13:03:53 2002 EDT
>>
>>   Modified files:  /php4/ext/zlibzlib.c   Log:
>>   @ - If possible set Content-Length header in zlib.output_compression 
>> mode. (thies)
> 
> 
> A little suggestion. It seems it does generate Content-Length for every
> buffer and you can check nesting level generate the header only for the
> last buffer.
> 

Hmm.

This is inside zlib output compression buffer...
When zlib.output_compression buffer is cerated, there will be
normal output buffer at nest level 1.

Do you mind if I change Content-Length is sent when output
buffer is enabled?

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Re: [PHP-DEV] Shared PHP library

[Yasuo Ohgaki]

Stig S. Bakken wrote:
> On Sat, 2002-04-20 at 17:53, Andrei Zmievski wrote:
> 
>>I would like to know if we can modify the build process to build and
>>install a PHP library, without any SAPI modules, so that libphp.a and
>>libphp.so get installed in the appropriate locations. I need this in
>>order to develop PHP support for some applications, since they will need
>>to link against these libraries. Who's the wiz to take on this little
>>project?
> 
> 
> Sascha is the man, if you can interest him.
> 

I hope Saschs is interested, since I have the same needs.
PL/PHP sounds nice and I'm willing to do that if there
is shared PHP library.

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[PHP-DEV] Re: Discourage use of short tags

[Yasuo Ohgaki]

It's Zeev's version.
Everyone happy with this?


   
 Using short tags should be avoided when developing applications or 
libraries that are meant for redistribution, or deployment on PHP 
servers which are not under your control, because short tags may not be 
supported on the target server.  For portable, redistributable code, be 
sure not to use short tags.
   


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Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Discourage use of short tags

[Andrew Lindeman]

Looks good to me

On Saturday 27 April 2002 06:24 pm, Yasuo Ohgaki wrote:
> It's Zeev's version.
> Everyone happy with this?
>
> 
>
>  Using short tags should be avoided when developing applications or
> libraries that are meant for redistribution, or deployment on PHP
> servers which are not under your control, because short tags may not be
> supported on the target server.  For portable, redistributable code, be
> sure not to use short tags.
>
> 

-- 
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months.  I just love debugging ;-)
(Linus Torvalds)

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Re: [PHP-DEV] Who vote for this? (was Re: [PHP-DEV] Discourage useof short tags)

[Rasmus Lerdorf]

 The standard configuration is not such that PHP is set up to process
 XML or XHTML documents.  It is very deliberate that we have a separate
 mime-type and our own .php extension as the default config.  Yes, you
 can configure PHP to parse all .html files, or .xhtml or even .xml if
 you wanted to, but that would require a configuration change.  As such,
 one of those changes then might include turning short_tags off.

 The golden rules of PHP are to keep the WTF(*) factor low and the
 POTFP(**) factor high.

(*)  What The Fuck
(**) Piss Off The Fewest People

 By suddenly changing a basic characteristic of PHP that has been around
 since the beginning of time in order to solve a problem almost nobody
 has, we violate both principles, and on top of that we add a security
 risk in that now people are likely to expose code that they didn't mean
 to expose and before they figure it out they may have leaked database
 passwords and other sensitive data.

 What is needed here is decent documentation, not ramming a configuration
 change down peoples' throats with absolutely no regard to the
 consequences and ramifications of such a change.

-Rasmus

On Sun, 28 Apr 2002, Yasuo Ohgaki wrote:

> I really don't understand why we should keep short_tag=on. This
> implies we have following _standard_ and _portable_ syntax for
> all XML documents preprocessed by PHP.
>
> ' ?>
>
> Who vote for this _standard_ and _portable_ syntax?
>
> Don't forget to write why this syntax is good,
> look great, etc.
>
> --
> Yasuo Ohgaki
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [PHP-DEV] Who vote for this? (was Re: [PHP-DEV] Discourage use

[Yasuo Ohgaki]

Rasmus Lerdorf wrote:
>  By suddenly changing a basic characteristic of PHP that has been around
>  since the beginning of time in order to solve a problem almost nobody
>  has, we violate both principles, and on top of that we add a security
>  risk in that now people are likely to expose code that they didn't mean
>  to expose and before they figure it out they may have leaked database
>  passwords and other sensitive data.

I agree. There will be many careless admin/users.

> 
>  What is needed here is decent documentation, not ramming a configuration
>  change down peoples' throats with absolutely no regard to the
>  consequences and ramifications of such a change.

I agree this, too.

I'm not for immediate change. I would like to make clear the result of 
discussion.

short_tag option should be kept. Most of us agree, it seems.
Should we keep double standard _forever_ and have

' ?>

as standard syntax for XML files preprocessed by PHP?

I can't think of better way. If there are, Please let me know.
I'll document it.

--
Yasuo Ohgaki


> On Sun, 28 Apr 2002, Yasuo Ohgaki wrote:
> 
> 
>>I really don't understand why we should keep short_tag=on. This
>>implies we have following _standard_ and _portable_ syntax for
>>all XML documents preprocessed by PHP.
>>
>>' ?>
>>
>>Who vote for this _standard_ and _portable_ syntax?
>>
>>Don't forget to write why this syntax is good,
>>look great, etc.
>>
>>--
>>Yasuo Ohgaki
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
> 
> 



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[PHP-DEV] CVS Account Request

[Andrew Heebner]

Would like to contribute and help with existing PEAR modules

~ Andrew Heebner, EvilWalrus.com



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Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-CVS] cvs: php4 / php.ini-distphp.ini-recommended

[Stig S. Bakken]

I have to agree with Rasmus.  Don't fix what isn't broken.  While
short_tags may annoy some people, it certainly doesn't break anything,
while disabling it by default would.

What are we trying to do?  Roll out release after release making
problems for people?  IMHO we've filled our quota for a while with the
register_globals change.

 - Stig

On Sat, 2002-04-27 at 07:48, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote:
> But what problem are you trying to solve?
> 
> There have been a lot of changes lately that adds more obstacles for the
> new user.  Most of the books out there and all sorts of tutorials show
> short-tag examples.  People will try them and they won't work.  Likewise,
> with register_globals off now a bunch of things won't work.  The more
> changes like this, the more obstacles we impose.  That has always been
> PHP's strong-suit.  It works, it gives people positive feedback and they
> continue with it.  If someones' initial experience is something that
> doesn't work, we have lost them.  I wish people would spend more time
> coming up with cool ways to help the newbie as they do coming up with
> obstacles, fancy OOP and other weird stuff that only appeals to the top 1%
> of PHP users.
> 
> And no, I don't consider register_globals and this to be anywhere near
> equivalent.  For register_globals a security argument can be made.  For
> short_tags there is no such thing.  It is just an obstacle, nothing more.
> The few people that this might actually affect already know better.  And
> if they don't, we have a documentation problem which is where this should
> be addressed.
> 
> -Rasmus
> 
> On Sat, 27 Apr 2002, Sebastian Bergmann wrote:
> 
> > Rasmus Lerdorf wrote:
> > > Please revert.
> >
> >   What about a compromise and enable it in php.ini-dist, and disable it
> >   in php.ini-recommended?
> >
> > --
> >   Sebastian Bergmann
> >   http://sebastian-bergmann.de/ http://phpOpenTracker.de/
> >
> >   Did I help you? Consider a gift: http://wishlist.sebastian-bergmann.de/
> >
> > --
> > PHP Development Mailing List 
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> >
> 
> 
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[PHP-DEV] Current CVS segfaults on Win32

[Sebastian Bergmann]

_efree(void * 0xcdcdcdcd, char * 0x1026e258 `string', unsigned int 1459,
char * 0x, unsigned int 0) line 222 + 3 bytes
php_rshutdown_session_globals(void * * * 0x00b32870) line 1459 + 44 bytes
zm_deactivate_session(int 1, int 10, void * * * 0x00b32870) line 1519 + 9
bytes
module_registry_cleanup(_zend_module_entry * 0x00bbc140, void * * *
0x00b32870) line 1170 + 28 bytes
zend_hash_apply(_hashtable * 0x102bb680 _module_registry, int (void *,
void * * *)* 0x101324b0 module_registry_cleanup(_zend_module_entry *, void
* * *), void * * * 0x00b32870) line 688 + 16 bytes
zend_deactivate_modules(void * * * 0x00b32870) line 581 + 19 bytes
php_request_shutdown(void * 0x) line 797 + 9 bytes
main(int 1, char * * 0x00b33fb0) line 1069 + 8 bytes
mainCRTStartup() line 338 + 17 bytes

-- 
  Sebastian Bergmann
  http://sebastian-bergmann.de/ http://phpOpenTracker.de/

  Did I help you? Consider a gift: http://wishlist.sebastian-bergmann.de/

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