RE: [PHP] Running a server process
Thanks for the info guys. Sockets sound interesting. Will check the out more. I have played with sockets and flash before, but I will read up more. From what you are saying I gather that 500 people with an open socket to the program is a lot different to 500 people spawning their own process. Thanks again, Nathan -Original Message- From: Richard Lynch [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2007 10:10 AM To: Nathan Wallis Cc: php-general@lists.php.net Subject: Re: [PHP] Running a server process On Fri, August 10, 2007 6:26 am, Nathan Wallis wrote: I have a windows application the performs a certain task that I need it to perform. I am in the process of developing my site and am really interested in the functionality of the site at the moment and haven't set about putting the details in place, so I am using the php function exec (start ... ); To run the process. It works. That is it works with just me using the site. I am wondering how this would effect performance if say 500 people were executing this php function around the same time and the processing overlapped. Don't wonder. Run ab (Apache Benchmark) and find out. Or use valgrind/callgrind to find out. Or use wget to find out. Or use that whack-a-mole benchmark or SuperSmack or whatever it is. Is there anyway to make an executable run as a service, I am guessing at the terminology that I should use here, but I feel there would be a much more efficient way of performing this task. Any program can be run as a service (Un*x: daemon) Writing that program to do something useful and, more so, efficient, is a bit challenging. Here's a sample talkback service that just spits out whatever you put in: http://php.net/sockets -- Some people have a gift link here. Know what I want? I want you to buy a CD from some indie artist. http://cdbaby.com/browse/from/lynch Yeah, I get a buck. So? -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Running a server process
Tijnema wrote: On 8/10/07, Stut [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tijnema wrote: On 8/10/07, Stut [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tijnema wrote: On 8/10/07, Richard Heyes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That is it works with just me using the site. I am wondering how this would effect performance if say 500 people were executing this php function around the same time and the processing overlapped. Is there anyway to make an executable run as a service, I am guessing at the terminology that I should use here, but I feel there would be a much more efficient way of performing this task. Well, ideally you don't run an executable. But if you must, there's some Windows program that turns an executable into a service. But then there's the consideration of communicating with it, which you could do with sockets. Or you could use a file. -- Richard Heyes +44 (0)844 801 1072 http://www.websupportsolutions.co.uk I don't know if there a program exists that can convert the program to a service, I think you need to compile it as a service from source code, but as I mentioned in my first post, and you mentioned here too, you also need to add support for a socket server in your program. Sockets in PHP are easy ;) http://www.firedaemon.com/ But you're right, you'd need a way to communicate with the service. -Stut Well stut, this doesn't really run your program as a service. The program itself is a server, and simply starts every program when that service starts. That's not the same as running the program as a service. That's extremely pedantic. As a service simply means it responds to messages from the OS such as start, pause and stop. Firedaemon wraps your executable in a process that does just that. So technically you're correct, it doesn't turn your executable into a service, it wraps it in one, but the effect is essentially the same. If you need the extra control you'll get over it by rewriting your executable to actually be a service then you should do that. But if you're working with something you don't have the source for, or don't have the time to implement such a modification then Firedaemon is the best option I've come across. -Stut Yes, but if you don't have the source, you can't add socket support, and then you can do quite less with a program... Unless you already have socket support in the program, but that seems quite odd to me ;) Sockets aren't the only IPC mechanism available. And besides, I was countering your general statement regarding Firedaemon, not the applicability of Firedaemon to the OP's problem, which we can't comment on without knowing a lot more information about it. -Stut -- http://stut.net/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Running a server process
Tijnema wrote: On 8/10/07, Stut [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tijnema wrote: On 8/10/07, Richard Heyes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That is it works with just me using the site. I am wondering how this would effect performance if say 500 people were executing this php function around the same time and the processing overlapped. Is there anyway to make an executable run as a service, I am guessing at the terminology that I should use here, but I feel there would be a much more efficient way of performing this task. Well, ideally you don't run an executable. But if you must, there's some Windows program that turns an executable into a service. But then there's the consideration of communicating with it, which you could do with sockets. Or you could use a file. -- Richard Heyes +44 (0)844 801 1072 http://www.websupportsolutions.co.uk I don't know if there a program exists that can convert the program to a service, I think you need to compile it as a service from source code, but as I mentioned in my first post, and you mentioned here too, you also need to add support for a socket server in your program. Sockets in PHP are easy ;) http://www.firedaemon.com/ But you're right, you'd need a way to communicate with the service. -Stut Well stut, this doesn't really run your program as a service. The program itself is a server, and simply starts every program when that service starts. That's not the same as running the program as a service. That's extremely pedantic. As a service simply means it responds to messages from the OS such as start, pause and stop. Firedaemon wraps your executable in a process that does just that. So technically you're correct, it doesn't turn your executable into a service, it wraps it in one, but the effect is essentially the same. If you need the extra control you'll get over it by rewriting your executable to actually be a service then you should do that. But if you're working with something you don't have the source for, or don't have the time to implement such a modification then Firedaemon is the best option I've come across. -Stut -- http://stut.net/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Running a server process
On 8/10/07, Richard Heyes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That is it works with just me using the site. I am wondering how this would effect performance if say 500 people were executing this php function around the same time and the processing overlapped. Is there anyway to make an executable run as a service, I am guessing at the terminology that I should use here, but I feel there would be a much more efficient way of performing this task. Well, ideally you don't run an executable. But if you must, there's some Windows program that turns an executable into a service. But then there's the consideration of communicating with it, which you could do with sockets. Or you could use a file. -- Richard Heyes +44 (0)844 801 1072 http://www.websupportsolutions.co.uk I don't know if there a program exists that can convert the program to a service, I think you need to compile it as a service from source code, but as I mentioned in my first post, and you mentioned here too, you also need to add support for a socket server in your program. Sockets in PHP are easy ;) Tijnema -- Vote for PHP Color Coding in Gmail! - http://gpcc.tijnema.info -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Running a server process
On 8/10/07, Stut [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tijnema wrote: On 8/10/07, Richard Heyes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That is it works with just me using the site. I am wondering how this would effect performance if say 500 people were executing this php function around the same time and the processing overlapped. Is there anyway to make an executable run as a service, I am guessing at the terminology that I should use here, but I feel there would be a much more efficient way of performing this task. Well, ideally you don't run an executable. But if you must, there's some Windows program that turns an executable into a service. But then there's the consideration of communicating with it, which you could do with sockets. Or you could use a file. -- Richard Heyes +44 (0)844 801 1072 http://www.websupportsolutions.co.uk I don't know if there a program exists that can convert the program to a service, I think you need to compile it as a service from source code, but as I mentioned in my first post, and you mentioned here too, you also need to add support for a socket server in your program. Sockets in PHP are easy ;) http://www.firedaemon.com/ But you're right, you'd need a way to communicate with the service. -Stut Well stut, this doesn't really run your program as a service. The program itself is a server, and simply starts every program when that service starts. That's not the same as running the program as a service. Tijnema -- Vote for PHP Color Coding in Gmail! - http://gpcc.tijnema.info -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Running a server process
On 8/10/07, Stut [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tijnema wrote: On 8/10/07, Stut [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tijnema wrote: On 8/10/07, Richard Heyes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That is it works with just me using the site. I am wondering how this would effect performance if say 500 people were executing this php function around the same time and the processing overlapped. Is there anyway to make an executable run as a service, I am guessing at the terminology that I should use here, but I feel there would be a much more efficient way of performing this task. Well, ideally you don't run an executable. But if you must, there's some Windows program that turns an executable into a service. But then there's the consideration of communicating with it, which you could do with sockets. Or you could use a file. -- Richard Heyes +44 (0)844 801 1072 http://www.websupportsolutions.co.uk I don't know if there a program exists that can convert the program to a service, I think you need to compile it as a service from source code, but as I mentioned in my first post, and you mentioned here too, you also need to add support for a socket server in your program. Sockets in PHP are easy ;) http://www.firedaemon.com/ But you're right, you'd need a way to communicate with the service. -Stut Well stut, this doesn't really run your program as a service. The program itself is a server, and simply starts every program when that service starts. That's not the same as running the program as a service. That's extremely pedantic. As a service simply means it responds to messages from the OS such as start, pause and stop. Firedaemon wraps your executable in a process that does just that. So technically you're correct, it doesn't turn your executable into a service, it wraps it in one, but the effect is essentially the same. If you need the extra control you'll get over it by rewriting your executable to actually be a service then you should do that. But if you're working with something you don't have the source for, or don't have the time to implement such a modification then Firedaemon is the best option I've come across. -Stut Yes, but if you don't have the source, you can't add socket support, and then you can do quite less with a program... Unless you already have socket support in the program, but that seems quite odd to me ;) Tijnema -- Vote for PHP Color Coding in Gmail! - http://gpcc.tijnema.info -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Running a server process
On 8/10/07, Stut [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tijnema wrote: On 8/10/07, Stut [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tijnema wrote: On 8/10/07, Stut [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tijnema wrote: On 8/10/07, Richard Heyes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That is it works with just me using the site. I am wondering how this would effect performance if say 500 people were executing this php function around the same time and the processing overlapped. Is there anyway to make an executable run as a service, I am guessing at the terminology that I should use here, but I feel there would be a much more efficient way of performing this task. Well, ideally you don't run an executable. But if you must, there's some Windows program that turns an executable into a service. But then there's the consideration of communicating with it, which you could do with sockets. Or you could use a file. -- Richard Heyes +44 (0)844 801 1072 http://www.websupportsolutions.co.uk I don't know if there a program exists that can convert the program to a service, I think you need to compile it as a service from source code, but as I mentioned in my first post, and you mentioned here too, you also need to add support for a socket server in your program. Sockets in PHP are easy ;) http://www.firedaemon.com/ But you're right, you'd need a way to communicate with the service. -Stut Well stut, this doesn't really run your program as a service. The program itself is a server, and simply starts every program when that service starts. That's not the same as running the program as a service. That's extremely pedantic. As a service simply means it responds to messages from the OS such as start, pause and stop. Firedaemon wraps your executable in a process that does just that. So technically you're correct, it doesn't turn your executable into a service, it wraps it in one, but the effect is essentially the same. If you need the extra control you'll get over it by rewriting your executable to actually be a service then you should do that. But if you're working with something you don't have the source for, or don't have the time to implement such a modification then Firedaemon is the best option I've come across. -Stut Yes, but if you don't have the source, you can't add socket support, and then you can do quite less with a program... Unless you already have socket support in the program, but that seems quite odd to me ;) Sockets aren't the only IPC mechanism available. And besides, I was countering your general statement regarding Firedaemon, not the applicability of Firedaemon to the OP's problem, which we can't comment on without knowing a lot more information about it. -Stut Sockets is the best IPC available for all platforms, Pipes etc. only work on POSIX systems, not on default windows installation, as you would need the Microsoft Windows Services For Unix package installed. You could use things like files or databases too, but sockets would mostly be easier as you can simple send a START command to emulate the start of a program, and have a stream open for returning data. I see I misreaded a little bit of your reply. Tijnema -- Vote for PHP Color Coding in Gmail! - http://gpcc.tijnema.info -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Running a server process
On 8/10/07, Richard Heyes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That is it works with just me using the site. I am wondering how this would effect performance if say 500 people were executing this php function around the same time and the processing overlapped. Is there anyway to make an executable run as a service, I am guessing at the terminology that I should use here, but I feel there would be a much more efficient way of performing this task. Well, ideally you don't run an executable. But if you must, there's some Windows program that turns an executable into a service. But then there's the consideration of communicating with it, which you could do with sockets. Or you could use a file. -- Richard Heyes +44 (0)844 801 1072 http://www.websupportsolutions.co.uk Knowledge Base and HelpDesk software that can cut the cost of online support -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php Nathan, It should also be noted that, if your question was also whether or not two perfectly-simultaneous executions by two separate clients is an issue, the answer is no. Even if you had all 500 clients hitting the exec() point at the exact same moment, PID tracking wouldn't be an issue for even a semi-modern machine. Resource usage probably would be, and there would be the issue of PID limitation if you're hitting the magic number (65535), but for the system to accurately track which data goes to which client and who owns what process. I'm not sure if that's even part of the point you were questioning, but I read it as such. -- Daniel P. Brown [office] (570-) 587-7080 Ext. 272 [mobile] (570-) 766-8107 Hey, PHP-General list 50% off for life on web hosting plans $10/mo. or more at http://www.pilotpig.net/. Use the coupon code phpgeneralaug07 Register domains for about $0.01 more than what it costs me at http://domains.pilotpig.net/. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Running a server process
That is it works with just me using the site. I am wondering how this would effect performance if say 500 people were executing this php function around the same time and the processing overlapped. Is there anyway to make an executable run as a service, I am guessing at the terminology that I should use here, but I feel there would be a much more efficient way of performing this task. Well, ideally you don't run an executable. But if you must, there's some Windows program that turns an executable into a service. But then there's the consideration of communicating with it, which you could do with sockets. Or you could use a file. -- Richard Heyes +44 (0)844 801 1072 http://www.websupportsolutions.co.uk Knowledge Base and HelpDesk software that can cut the cost of online support -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Running a server process
On 8/10/07, Nathan Wallis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi there, I have a windows application the performs a certain task that I need it to perform. I am in the process of developing my site and am really interested in the functionality of the site at the moment and haven't set about putting the details in place, so I am using the php function exec (start ... ); To run the process. It works. That is it works with just me using the site. I am wondering how this would effect performance if say 500 people were executing this php function around the same time and the processing overlapped. Is there anyway to make an executable run as a service, I am guessing at the terminology that I should use here, but I feel there would be a much more efficient way of performing this task. Any thoughts would be much appreciated. Nathan 500 people at the same time is a big problem, as it will start 500 processes at the same time. I wonder how many Windows servers can handle that much processes at same time. If you have written the windows application, you should rewrite some part of it to let it work with sockets, so that you can simply connect to the program with a socket. Tijnema -- Vote for PHP Color Coding in Gmail! - http://gpcc.tijnema.info -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Running a server process
Tijnema wrote: On 8/10/07, Richard Heyes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That is it works with just me using the site. I am wondering how this would effect performance if say 500 people were executing this php function around the same time and the processing overlapped. Is there anyway to make an executable run as a service, I am guessing at the terminology that I should use here, but I feel there would be a much more efficient way of performing this task. Well, ideally you don't run an executable. But if you must, there's some Windows program that turns an executable into a service. But then there's the consideration of communicating with it, which you could do with sockets. Or you could use a file. -- Richard Heyes +44 (0)844 801 1072 http://www.websupportsolutions.co.uk I don't know if there a program exists that can convert the program to a service, I think you need to compile it as a service from source code, but as I mentioned in my first post, and you mentioned here too, you also need to add support for a socket server in your program. Sockets in PHP are easy ;) http://www.firedaemon.com/ But you're right, you'd need a way to communicate with the service. -Stut -- http://stut.net/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Running a server process
On Fri, August 10, 2007 6:26 am, Nathan Wallis wrote: I have a windows application the performs a certain task that I need it to perform. I am in the process of developing my site and am really interested in the functionality of the site at the moment and haven't set about putting the details in place, so I am using the php function exec (start ... ); To run the process. It works. That is it works with just me using the site. I am wondering how this would effect performance if say 500 people were executing this php function around the same time and the processing overlapped. Don't wonder. Run ab (Apache Benchmark) and find out. Or use valgrind/callgrind to find out. Or use wget to find out. Or use that whack-a-mole benchmark or SuperSmack or whatever it is. Is there anyway to make an executable run as a service, I am guessing at the terminology that I should use here, but I feel there would be a much more efficient way of performing this task. Any program can be run as a service (Un*x: daemon) Writing that program to do something useful and, more so, efficient, is a bit challenging. Here's a sample talkback service that just spits out whatever you put in: http://php.net/sockets -- Some people have a gift link here. Know what I want? I want you to buy a CD from some indie artist. http://cdbaby.com/browse/from/lynch Yeah, I get a buck. So? -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
