RE: [PHP] Dreamhost! PHP as CGI!???

[Richard Lynch]

On Fri, April 13, 2007 7:15 pm, Buesching, Logan J wrote:
> You can't really do `php -v` on the command line, unless you know
> which
> php you are using.  If you have several installations of PHP, then
> doing
> `php -v` will just get you the version of PHP for which is loaded
> first
> from your path.  I'd do a `which php` to make sure you are using php 5
> first before `php -v`

And even if you know which php you are using on CLI, it may have
nothing to do with the PHP being run on the actual web-server...

You really should use  for the web environment to
figure out what the web environment is, if you want to be 100% sure
that what you see is what you got.

I've had hosts where CLI php was radically different from web php --
and presumable they could tuck the FCGI php binary away somewhere that
you can't get at it, while having an entirely different one in your
$PATH.

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Re: [PHP] Dreamhost! PHP as CGI!???

[Richard Lynch]

On Fri, April 13, 2007 5:48 pm, Micky Hulse wrote:
>> Actually, dreamhost is only the primary, and there's a fail-safe
>> roll-over to another box if dreamhost goes down. (again)
>
> Ahhh, hehe. Good call on the backup server. I have never built a
> big
> enough site to where I needed a backup server "just in case." Probably
> a
> very good idea though. :)
>
> Thanks fo ryou reply Richard, I greatly appreciate the help!

Oddly enough, it's not that "big" a site.

They pay me in food and beer, actually.

But there was this small issue of having about 400 Gigs of audio (and
counting) that needed to "pretend" to live on a 500 Meg webhost, so I
had to build the caching N-tier thing anyway.

It originally used a box in my apartment on my cable-modem as the
back-end.  Note that we're talking artists nobody ever heard of, and a
Slashdot effect would get cached in the front-end tier, so that's not
as horrible as it sounds...

I moved it to the T-1 once they switched to VOIP for their phone system.

Anyway, once I had the N-tier thing, I figured it was just as easy to
build a second one on Dreamhost as it was to find some way to backup
400 Gigs of mp3s in an environment that could be called "chaotic" at
best...

Ground coffee spilled all over the audio server is when I decided we
really really should have more of a backup plan than the 10,000 CDRs
scattered through my disaster commonly known as an apartment, and I
bit the bullet and added Dreamhost as the backup.

I switched to Dreamhost as the primary and the T-1 is the backup, so
the cafe free wifi users would be less inconvenienced by audio
listeners.

Don't ask me how the dang thing just kept chugging along with coffee
grinds all in it, but it did... :-v

The network hub has a nice "streaky" look as if it's been in a fire
too, from the coffee I dusted off of that.

I put a note on the computer telling people not to put anything (like
sample bags of coffee) on top of it any more, so we'll see how that
goes...

It's very much cobbled-together on a shoestring budget, and if I die,
I feel sorry for whoever inherits it...  But whaddaya want for
food/beer pay?

-- 
Some people have a "gift" link here.
Know what I want?
I want you to buy a CD from some indie artist.
http://cdbaby.com/browse/from/lynch
Yeah, I get a buck. So?


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RE: [PHP] Dreamhost! PHP as CGI!???

[Buesching, Logan J]

You can't really do `php -v` on the command line, unless you know which
php you are using.  If you have several installations of PHP, then doing
`php -v` will just get you the version of PHP for which is loaded first
from your path.  I'd do a `which php` to make sure you are using php 5
first before `php -v`

-Logan

-Original Message-
From: Sebe [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2007 6:27 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; php php
Subject: Re: [PHP] Dreamhost! PHP as CGI!???

Richard Lynch wrote:
> On Fri, April 13, 2007 3:46 am, Micky Hulse wrote:
>   
>> I think I just read that PHP is ran as CGI on Dreamhost... this does
>> not
>> sound good. Can anyone confirm?
>> 
>
> You could confirm what you have on YOUR setup with:
> 
> faster and with more assurance of correctness than any mailing list
> answer

yeah or `php -v` via cmdline.

by the way, isn't PHP w/FastCGI faster than using apache module?

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Re: [PHP] Dreamhost! PHP as CGI!???

[Micky Hulse]

Hi Sebe, thanks for help.

Sebe wrote:

yeah or `php -v` via cmdline.


Great! Thanks for tip on that one. ;)


by the way, isn't PHP w/FastCGI faster than using apache module?


A, really? DH does offer FastCGI support.

Hrmmm. So many things to consider! Lol.

Thanks again Sebe!

Cheers,
M




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Re: [PHP] Dreamhost! PHP as CGI!???

[Micky Hulse]

Richard Lynch wrote:

You could confirm what you have on YOUR setup with:

faster and with more assurance of correctness than any mailing list
answer.


Yeah! Hehe. I feel like such a noob. I can not believe I did not think 
of that first. Lol.


Here is what phpinfo() had to say:

Server API: CGI/FastCGI
Virtual Directory Support: disabled
Configuration File (php.ini) Path: /etc/php5/cgi/php.ini

And I just got this response from DH today:

"... Yes...I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but we are running php 
as CGI. ..."


Very nice of them to respond so fast... Very friendly reply. Seems like 
a great host if you are not as concerned about up-time/down-time and are 
on a tight budget.



It works fine for me, but I'm only using DreamHost as the back-end of
an N-tier audio server for a web-site that doesn't actually live on
dreamhost.


Ahh. I see.


Actually, dreamhost is only the primary, and there's a fail-safe
roll-over to another box if dreamhost goes down. (again)


Ahhh, hehe. Good call on the backup server. I have never built a big 
enough site to where I needed a backup server "just in case." Probably a 
very good idea though. :)


Thanks fo ryou reply Richard, I greatly appreciate the help!

Cheers,
M

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Re: [PHP] Dreamhost! PHP as CGI!???

[Richard Lynch]

On Fri, April 13, 2007 5:27 pm, Sebe wrote:
> by the way, isn't PHP w/FastCGI faster than using apache module?

Probably depends.

Might as well ask if a car is faster than a speedboat...

And whatever troubles the OP had with CGI may not apply in FCGI, or
might be made worse.

-- 
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Know what I want?
I want you to buy a CD from some indie artist.
http://cdbaby.com/browse/from/lynch
Yeah, I get a buck. So?

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Re: [PHP] Dreamhost! PHP as CGI!???

[Micky Hulse]

Miles Thompson wrote:

Have a look at www.hub.org.  They host PostgreSQL world wide, you get a
virtual machine, not a virtual host, and  they are v. helpful in setting up
software.


Ahhh, nice! Thanks for the tip. Looking at what they offer now. It is 
going to be a close call between several. All seem to offer good stuff!


Lol. I hate picking hosting.

Thanks again Miles!

Have a great day/night.
Cheers,
M


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Re: [PHP] Dreamhost! PHP as CGI!???

[Micky Hulse]

Richard Davey wrote:

It will be the first of many :)


Yikes! Definitely gonna make the switch. Cheap it may be, but I need 
reliable too!


Oh and hey... you'll soon experience the sporadic "will it or won't it" 
nature of their Control Panel loading too. I always loved that one.


Doh! Yeah. Not really sure if I like the proprietary CP... I guess I am 
used to using Cpanel. :D



Abso-frigging-lutely.


Yep yep. I hear that. :(

It will cope with your needs *easily* and the best thing about them - 
they can scale-up your account at any time, to whatever you need, as you 
grow. Some HUGE sites are hosted comfortably on Pair. Even php.net ;)


Ahhh, cool! Good to hear. ;)

Thanks again for the help Richard, I appreciate your time and expertise.

Have a great day/night!
Cheers,
M


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Re: [PHP] Dreamhost! PHP as CGI!???

[Sebe]

Richard Lynch wrote:

On Fri, April 13, 2007 3:46 am, Micky Hulse wrote:
  

I think I just read that PHP is ran as CGI on Dreamhost... this does
not
sound good. Can anyone confirm?



You could confirm what you have on YOUR setup with:

faster and with more assurance of correctness than any mailing list
answer


yeah or `php -v` via cmdline.

by the way, isn't PHP w/FastCGI faster than using apache module?

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Re: [PHP] Dreamhost! PHP as CGI!???

[Richard Lynch]

On Fri, April 13, 2007 3:46 am, Micky Hulse wrote:
> I think I just read that PHP is ran as CGI on Dreamhost... this does
> not
> sound good. Can anyone confirm?

You could confirm what you have on YOUR setup with:

faster and with more assurance of correctness than any mailing list
answer.

> What do you all think? Good? Bad?

It works fine for me, but I'm only using DreamHost as the back-end of
an N-tier audio server for a web-site that doesn't actually live on
dreamhost.

Actually, dreamhost is only the primary, and there's a fail-safe
roll-over to another box if dreamhost goes down. (again)

YMMV

-- 
Some people have a "gift" link here.
Know what I want?
I want you to buy a CD from some indie artist.
http://cdbaby.com/browse/from/lynch
Yeah, I get a buck. So?

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Re: [PHP] Dreamhost! PHP as CGI!???

[Miles Thompson]

On 4/13/07, Richard Davey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Micky Hulse wrote:

> Lol, funny you should mention that... Within a few days of getting an
> account, my server went down with a bunch of other folks... I guess it
> was a "DOS" attack or something.

It will be the first of many :)

Oh and hey... you'll soon experience the sporadic "will it or won't it"
nature of their Control Panel loading too. I always loved that one.

> Oooh, excellent. Actually, I had other folks suggest Pair too. Only
> reason why my client and I picked DH was the price. I guess I get what I
> pay for.

Abso-frigging-lutely.

> Hmm, pair may be worth the extra $$. Do you think the "Webmaster" plan
> is decent for a small but soon-to-be growing site?

It will cope with your needs *easily* and the best thing about them -
they can scale-up your account at any time, to whatever you need, as you
grow. Some HUGE sites are hosted comfortably on Pair. Even php.net ;)

Cheers,

Rich
--
Zend Certified Engineer
http://www.corephp.co.uk



Have a look at www.hub.org.  They host PostgreSQL world wide, you get a
virtual machine, not a virtual host, and  they are v. helpful in setting up
software.

Miles

Re: [PHP] Dreamhost! PHP as CGI!???

[Richard Davey]

Micky Hulse wrote:

Lol, funny you should mention that... Within a few days of getting an 
account, my server went down with a bunch of other folks... I guess it 
was a "DOS" attack or something.


It will be the first of many :)

Oh and hey... you'll soon experience the sporadic "will it or won't it" 
nature of their Control Panel loading too. I always loved that one.


Oooh, excellent. Actually, I had other folks suggest Pair too. Only 
reason why my client and I picked DH was the price. I guess I get what I 
pay for.


Abso-frigging-lutely.

Hmm, pair may be worth the extra $$. Do you think the "Webmaster" plan 
is decent for a small but soon-to-be growing site?


It will cope with your needs *easily* and the best thing about them - 
they can scale-up your account at any time, to whatever you need, as you 
grow. Some HUGE sites are hosted comfortably on Pair. Even php.net ;)


Cheers,

Rich
--
Zend Certified Engineer
http://www.corephp.co.uk

"Never trust a computer you can't throw out of a window"

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Re: [PHP] Dreamhost! PHP as CGI!???

[Micky Hulse]

Tijnema ! wrote:

I'm using www.dapx.com for my www sites. Setup is a pain in the ass
there, it can take a few days before you get a reply. But once you got
it, it's a really nice host. Nice speed, really 99.9% uptime, and not
much limited stuff :) safe_mode is even turned off :)


Ah, thanks for the tip-off. Looking at what they offer now. I wish I had 
asked here first before buying hosting for a year from DH.


Thanks again Tijnema. ;)

Cheers,
M

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Re: [PHP] Dreamhost! PHP as CGI!???

[Micky Hulse]

Hi Richard! Thanks for the help, I really appreciate your time and 
advice. :)


Richard Davey wrote:
If you've got access to your account with them, you can confirm it 
yourself. Check the output of a phpinfo().


Ah, lol. Good call:

Server API: CGI/FastCGI
Virtual Directory Support: disabled
Configuration File (php.ini) Path: /etc/php5/cgi/php.ini

Looks like CGI to me, no? Sorry, server stuff is not my forte.

Not *that* terrible at all, but if you've only been with Dreamhost for a 
few days you've got far worse things to experience yet IMHO (shoddy 
uptime, shoddy servers, shoddy network, etc)


Lol, funny you should mention that... Within a few days of getting an 
account, my server went down with a bunch of other folks... I guess it 
was a "DOS" attack or something.


www.pair.com runs PHP 4 as an Apache Module, and are a superb host (I've 
used them since 1996) - but even better in the next few weeks they 
rollout PHP 5.2.1 as standard on all servers. Can't wait :)


Oooh, excellent. Actually, I had other folks suggest Pair too. Only 
reason why my client and I picked DH was the price. I guess I get what I 
pay for.


Hmm, pair may be worth the extra $$. Do you think the "Webmaster" plan 
is decent for a small but soon-to-be growing site?



THanks again Richard! I greatly appreciate the help. ;)

Cheers,
M


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Re: [PHP] Dreamhost! PHP as CGI!???

[Tijnema !]

On 4/13/07, Richard Davey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Micky Hulse wrote:

> I think I just read that PHP is ran as CGI on Dreamhost... this does not
> sound good. Can anyone confirm?

If you've got access to your account with them, you can confirm it
yourself. Check the output of a phpinfo().

> What do you all think? Good? Bad?

Not *that* terrible at all, but if you've only been with Dreamhost for a
few days you've got far worse things to experience yet IMHO (shoddy
uptime, shoddy servers, shoddy network, etc)

> Should I stick with it or find a host that runs PHP under Apache?

www.pair.com runs PHP 4 as an Apache Module, and are a superb host (I've
used them since 1996) - but even better in the next few weeks they
rollout PHP 5.2.1 as standard on all servers. Can't wait :)

Cheers,

Rich


I'm using www.dapx.com for my www sites. Setup is a pain in the ass
there, it can take a few days before you get a reply. But once you got
it, it's a really nice host. Nice speed, really 99.9% uptime, and not
much limited stuff :) safe_mode is even turned off :)

Tijnema

--
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http://www.corephp.co.uk

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Re: [PHP] Dreamhost! PHP as CGI!???

[Micky Hulse]

Hi Tijnema! Thanks for the quick reply, I really appreciate the help. :)

Tijnema ! wrote:

Google tells me that it is an optional feature to run PHP as CGI,
default it is running under apache. Atleast that's what i found for
dreamhost.


Ah, from what I am reading, it sounds like that used to be the option, 
and may still be a feature for older users... but (from what I 
understand, which is not much) PHP 5 is CGI only:


"DreamHost currently allows several PHP configurations. In the user 
Control Panel you can choose between PHP4 and PHP5 running as a CGI 
application (with optional FastCGI support). While it's no longer 
officially supported you currently still have the possibility to have 
PHP running as an Apache module (mod_php).


Finally you have the option to compile your own custom PHP with the 
exact version of PHP you wish and with any module you require."



Hmmm, I guess it sounds like I can setup things to use the Apache 
module, but they make it sound so evil:


"If one of those is a show-stopper for you, you can easily switch to 
running PHP as an Apache module and not CGI, but be prepared for a bunch 
of potential security and ease-of-use issues!"



Looks like I have a ton of reading to do... Unfortunately I am more of a 
designer than I am a system administrator... so not sure if messing with 
PHP on my DH account is worth the headache. :(


I have just had bad experiences in past with PHP as CGI... Not fun.

Lol, well... Thanks Tijnema! I really appreciate your help on this one. ;)

Have a great day/night!
Cheers,
M




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Re: [PHP] Dreamhost! PHP as CGI!???

[Richard Davey]

Micky Hulse wrote:

I think I just read that PHP is ran as CGI on Dreamhost... this does not 
sound good. Can anyone confirm?


If you've got access to your account with them, you can confirm it 
yourself. Check the output of a phpinfo().



What do you all think? Good? Bad?


Not *that* terrible at all, but if you've only been with Dreamhost for a 
few days you've got far worse things to experience yet IMHO (shoddy 
uptime, shoddy servers, shoddy network, etc)



Should I stick with it or find a host that runs PHP under Apache?


www.pair.com runs PHP 4 as an Apache Module, and are a superb host (I've 
used them since 1996) - but even better in the next few weeks they 
rollout PHP 5.2.1 as standard on all servers. Can't wait :)


Cheers,

Rich
--
Zend Certified Engineer
http://www.corephp.co.uk

"Never trust a computer you can't throw out of a window"

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Re: [PHP] Dreamhost! PHP as CGI!???

[Micky Hulse]

Micky Hulse wrote:
I think I just read that PHP is ran as CGI on Dreamhost... this does not 
sound good. Can anyone confirm?


Found this:



I guess I am just wondering what your thoughts are when it comes to 
running PHP as CGI? Good/Bad? Maybe I should not worry about it?


Off-list replies are cool with me if this is a little OT.

Thanks!
M

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Re: [PHP] Dreamhost! PHP as CGI!???

[Tijnema !]

On 4/13/07, Micky Hulse <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

I think I just read that PHP is ran as CGI on Dreamhost... this does not
sound good. Can anyone confirm?

What do you all think? Good? Bad?

I have dealt with one other server that did this (PHP as CGI) and I
hated it!

I just bought a years worth of hosting... I have a trial period so I
think I can still cancel.

Should I stick with it or find a host that runs PHP under Apache?

Please advise.

(FYI: Using Expression Engine for CMS/blog -- I read that it is
recommended to use EE with PHP not as CGI.)

Many thanks in advance!
Cheers,
Micky


Google tells me that it is an optional feature to run PHP as CGI,
default it is running under apache. Atleast that's what i found for
dreamhost.

Tijnema


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