RE: RE: [PHP] Re: PUT vs. POST (was: php File upload)
-Original Message- From: Per Jessen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2008 9:09 AM To: php-general@lists.php.net Subject: RE: [PHP] Re: PUT vs. POST (was: php File upload) Boyd, Todd M. wrote: I had to use Java for the simple fact that PHP by itself cannot access the local file system in a way that allows for the partial loading of files. Given that PHP doesn't run on the client, there is no way for anything written in PHP to access anything on the client. Gee.. I get the feeling that you didn't read what I wrote in that post. PHP can't access client stuff. No, PHP _CAN'T_ access client stuff! Um... kay? Todd Boyd Web Programmer
RE: RE: [PHP] Re: PUT vs. POST (was: php File upload)
Boyd, Todd M. wrote: I had to use Java for the simple fact that PHP by itself cannot access the local file system in a way that allows for the partial loading of files. Given that PHP doesn't run on the client, there is no way for anything written in PHP to access anything on the client. Gee.. I get the feeling that you didn't read what I wrote in that post. PHP can't access client stuff. No, PHP _CAN'T_ access client stuff! Um... kay? Todd, I just wanted to stress that there is NO way for PHP to access anything on the client. The way you wrote it, you sort of implied that there might be other ways: PHP by itself cannot access the local file system in a way that allows ... That's all. /Per Jessen, Zürich -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: RE: [PHP] Re: PUT vs. POST (was: php File upload)
At 6:33 PM +0200 8/11/08, Per Jessen wrote: Boyd, Todd M. wrote: I had to use Java for the simple fact that PHP by itself cannot access the local file system in a way that allows for the partial loading of files. Given that PHP doesn't run on the client, there is no way for anything written in PHP to access anything on the client. -snip- Todd, I just wanted to stress that there is NO way for PHP to access anything on the client. The way you wrote it, you sort of implied that there might be other ways: PHP by itself cannot access the local file system in a way that allows ... That's all. The above is saying two different things. 1). PHP by itself cannot access the local file system -- true. 2) ... there is NO way for PHP to access anything on the client. -- not true. Javascript can access some stuff on the client -- true. Javascript and php can communicate -- also true. Therefore, anything that javascript can access can be provided to php, thus proving [2] wrong. Now, if I'm wrong, please show me something that javascript can get that can't be provided to php. Cheers, tedd -- --- http://sperling.com http://ancientstones.com http://earthstones.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: RE: [PHP] Re: PUT vs. POST (was: php File upload)
tedd wrote: Todd, I just wanted to stress that there is NO way for PHP to access anything on the client. The way you wrote it, you sort of implied that there might be other ways: PHP by itself cannot access the local file system in a way that allows ... That's all. The above is saying two different things. 1). PHP by itself cannot access the local file system -- true. 2) ... there is NO way for PHP to access anything on the client. -- not true. Statement 2 _is_ 100% true. Sorry, end of discussion for my part. /Per Jessen, Zürich -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: PUT vs. POST
Todd, I just wanted to stress that there is NO way for PHP to access anything on the client. The way you wrote it, you sort of implied that there might be other ways: PHP by itself cannot access the local file system in a way that allows ... That's all. The above is saying two different things. 1). PHP by itself cannot access the local file system -- true. 2) ... there is NO way for PHP to access anything on the client. -- not true. Statement 2 _is_ 100% true. Sorry, end of discussion for my part. Technically statement 2 is not true, a PHP framework/platform such as NOLOH (http://www.noloh.com), allows you to access all client properties seamlessly and transparently from PHP, with something like NOLOH you don't have to worry about the client at all. -Asher
Re: [PHP] Re: PUT vs. POST
Per Jessen wrote: tedd wrote: Todd, I just wanted to stress that there is NO way for PHP to access anything on the client. The way you wrote it, you sort of implied that there might be other ways: PHP by itself cannot access the local file system in a way that allows ... That's all. The above is saying two different things. 1). PHP by itself cannot access the local file system -- true. 2) ... there is NO way for PHP to access anything on the client. -- not true. Statement 2 _is_ 100% true. Sorry, end of discussion for my part. /Per Jessen, Zürich No, if you said: .. there is NO way for PHP to access anything *directly* on the client. That's more true. Thank you, Micah Gersten onShore Networks Internal Developer http://www.onshore.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: PUT vs. POST
Asher Snyder wrote: 1). PHP by itself cannot access the local file system -- true. 2) ... there is NO way for PHP to access anything on the client. -- not true. Statement 2 _is_ 100% true. Sorry, end of discussion for my part. Technically statement 2 is not true, a PHP framework/platform such as NOLOH (http://www.noloh.com), allows you to access all client properties seamlessly and transparently from PHP, Seeing as PHP is SO incredibly powerful on the client side, surely we should have had an option to disable PHP in the browser long ago? I know I would want one. I'll have to mention it to the Mozilla people - I'm sure they'll appreciate a good, uh .. hysterical laugh. And _that_ was my absolutely final posting on this topic. /Per Jessen, Zürich -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: RE: RE: [PHP] Re: PUT vs. POST (was: php File upload)
-Original Message- From: Per Jessen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 11, 2008 1:17 PM To: php-general@lists.php.net Subject: RE: RE: [PHP] Re: PUT vs. POST (was: php File upload) tedd wrote: Todd, I just wanted to stress that there is NO way for PHP to access anything on the client. The way you wrote it, you sort of implied that there might be other ways: PHP by itself cannot access the local file system in a way that allows ... That's all. The above is saying two different things. 1). PHP by itself cannot access the local file system -- true. 2) ... there is NO way for PHP to access anything on the client. -- not true. Statement 2 _is_ 100% true. Sorry, end of discussion for my part. I think there is a difference in definition going on here. An object in the local filesystem (though not the original copy of it, but a facsimile rendered through Javascript) can be accessed from PHP, though not in its original form, but wrapped in an AJAX request--or hidden INPUT tag, etc. (in the form of encoded text)--and then manipulated. That's what I *MEANT* to say. :P Todd Boyd Web Programmer
RE: RE: [PHP] Re: PUT vs. POST (was: php File upload)
At 8:17 PM +0200 8/11/08, Per Jessen wrote: tedd wrote: 2) ... there is NO way for PHP to access anything on the client. -- not true. Statement 2 _is_ 100% true. Sorry, end of discussion for my part. /Per Jessen, Zürich Per Jessen: I am sure you are smarter than this -- you're probably not understanding what I am saying. I write code daily that communicates between javascript and php. As such, data that is on the client-side can passed to the server-side effortlessly -- javascript does that very well and if you don't want to entertain a refresh, you can even use ajax. PHP can even write javascript to do this and sit waiting for a reply back -- it's simply a matter of timing. Here's an example of php and javascript playing well together: http://webbytedd.com/b/timed-php/ Are you saying that this is not possible? I think not -- I think one of us is not understanding what the other is saying -- which is it? Cheers, tedd -- --- http://sperling.com http://ancientstones.com http://earthstones.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: RE: [PHP] Re: PUT vs. POST (was: php File upload)
On 8/11/08, tedd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Per Jessen: I am sure you are smarter than this -- you're probably not understanding what I am saying. No, Per is correct. PHP itself cannot access anything on the client. It is a server-parsed language. The client never executes PHP, period. Javascript, other applets, etc. can *inform* or push information to PHP about the client or files on the client, but PHP itself has no idea what is going on other than $_SERVER, $_COOKIE vars and whatnot identifying the browser. That's all it gets without something else helping it, and that is still not -PHP- itself. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: RE: RE: [PHP] Re: PUT vs. POST (was: php File upload)
At 2:07 PM -0500 8/11/08, Boyd, Todd M. wrote: I think there is a difference in definition going on here. -snip- Todd: I think you are right -- there must be some type of disconnect going on here because it's obvious that php can receive data from javascript. It's also obvious that javascript works client-side. Therefore, php can receive data from client-side -- to claim otherwise is nonsense. Per Jessen must be talking about something else. Cheers, tedd -- --- http://sperling.com http://ancientstones.com http://earthstones.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: RE: [PHP] Re: PUT vs. POST (was: php File upload)
At 12:19 PM -0700 8/11/08, mike wrote: On 8/11/08, tedd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Per Jessen: I am sure you are smarter than this -- you're probably not understanding what I am saying. No, Per is correct. PHP itself cannot access anything on the client. It is a server-parsed language. The client never executes PHP, period. Javascript, other applets, etc. can *inform* or push information to PHP about the client or files on the client, but PHP itself has no idea what is going on other than $_SERVER, $_COOKIE vars and whatnot identifying the browser. That's all it gets without something else helping it, and that is still not -PHP- itself. Arrrggg!!! Read! I said: 1). PHP by itself cannot access the local file system -- true. Now, do you agree with that?! Isn't that the SAME as what you said above?! Now, why not read the rest of what I wrote? Sometimes it's hard to get an idea across because some people refuse to read, but love to comment about the obvious. tedd -- --- http://sperling.com http://ancientstones.com http://earthstones.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: PUT vs. POST
At 9:07 PM +0200 8/11/08, Per Jessen wrote: Asher Snyder wrote: 1). PHP by itself cannot access the local file system -- true. 2) ... there is NO way for PHP to access anything on the client. -- not true. Statement 2 _is_ 100% true. Sorry, end of discussion for my part. Technically statement 2 is not true, a PHP framework/platform such as NOLOH (http://www.noloh.com), allows you to access all client properties seamlessly and transparently from PHP, Seeing as PHP is SO incredibly powerful on the client side, surely we should have had an option to disable PHP in the browser long ago? I know I would want one. I'll have to mention it to the Mozilla people - I'm sure they'll appreciate a good, uh .. hysterical laugh. And _that_ was my absolutely final posting on this topic. /Per Jessen, Zürich You obviously don't understand. Cheers, tedd -- --- http://sperling.com http://ancientstones.com http://earthstones.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: RE: [PHP] Re: PUT vs. POST (was: php File upload)
On 8/11/08, tedd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Now, do you agree with that?! Isn't that the SAME as what you said above?! Now, why not read the rest of what I wrote? Sometimes it's hard to get an idea across because some people refuse to read, but love to comment about the obvious. Or this conversation has become a hassle to pay attention to and I'm not going to waste time since gmail has compressed all the common text on each conversation trying to flip through it. Originally this was a decent idea for discussion since this interests me, but the thread has been hijacked into a semantics discussion now. So I decided I've seen enough of this back and forth and posted something. I therefore request we stop this discussion or put it into another thread about PHP vs. clientside crap, and let POST vs. PUT resume discussion if that's even still alive. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP] Re: PUT vs. POST (was: php File upload)
Boyd, Todd M. wrote: I had to use Java for the simple fact that PHP by itself cannot access the local file system in a way that allows for the partial loading of files. Given that PHP doesn't run on the client, there is no way for anything written in PHP to access anything on the client. /Per Jessen, Zürich -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: PUT vs. POST (was: php File upload)
Given that PHP doesn't run on the client, there is no way for anything written in PHP to access anything on the client. Wouldn't it be fun though if it could? :-) -- Richard Heyes http://www.phpguru.org -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: PUT vs. POST (was: php File upload)
At 3:50 PM +0100 8/9/08, Richard Heyes wrote: Given that PHP doesn't run on the client, there is no way for anything written in PHP to access anything on the client. Wouldn't it be fun though if it could? :-) -- Richard Heyes In a round about way it can, but it's limited. You see, anything that javascript can discover can be passed to php. The limits are those limits imposed on javascript. Cheers, tedd -- --- http://sperling.com http://ancientstones.com http://earthstones.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: PUT vs. POST (was: php File upload)
Except if paired with javadcript. Luke Slater Lead Developer NuVoo On 9 Aug 2008, at 15:09, Per Jessen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Boyd, Todd M. wrote: I had to use Java for the simple fact that PHP by itself cannot access the local file system in a way that allows for the partial loading of files. Given that PHP doesn't run on the client, there is no way for anything written in PHP to access anything on the client. /Per Jessen, Zürich -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: PUT vs. POST (was: php File upload)
tedd wrote: At 3:50 PM +0100 8/9/08, Richard Heyes wrote: Given that PHP doesn't run on the client, there is no way for anything written in PHP to access anything on the client. Wouldn't it be fun though if it could? :-) -- Richard Heyes In a round about way it can, but it's limited. No, it cannot. You see, anything that javascript can discover can be passed to php. The limits are those limits imposed on javascript. Ah, so you mean that _javascript_ can access something on the client - very true, but javascript!=PHP. Of course PHP can do all sorts if you combine it with javascript, black magic, or what have you, but PHP alone is a server side scripting language, nothing more nor less. /Per Jessen, Zürich -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: PUT vs. POST (was: php File upload)
On Aug 9, 2008, at 7:50 AM, Richard Heyes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Given that PHP doesn't run on the client, there is no way for anything written in PHP to access anything on the client. Wouldn't it be fun though if it could? :-) -- Richard Heyes http://www.phpguru.org -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php Years ago someone made an activex component to run php on the client. Apparently it went nowhere. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: PUT vs. POST (was: php File upload)
At 8:20 PM +0200 8/9/08, Per Jessen wrote: tedd wrote: You see, anything that javascript can discover can be passed to php. The limits are those limits imposed on javascript. Ah, so you mean that _javascript_ can access something on the client - very true, but javascript!=PHP. Of course PHP can do all sorts if you combine it with javascript, black magic, or what have you, but PHP alone is a server side scripting language, nothing more nor less. While js != php, they can communicate and that's what I was saying. There's nothing that js can discover that can't be passed to php and back again -- js and php can communicate and play together. Here's an example: http://webbytedd.com/b/timed-php/ Cheers, tedd -- --- http://sperling.com http://ancientstones.com http://earthstones.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: PUT vs. POST (was: php File upload)
On 8/8/08, Per Jessen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am not for or against either, I'm just looking for the right argument for PUT support as it seems to be lacking (and I've never found myself in a situation where PUT was the solution). I need to accept files of various sizes - up to 2GB, maybe even more (if it can be supported) - videos, code samples, zips, pdfs, anything. They're coming from various geographies - so slow unreliable connections must be factored in. HTTP upload even with -large- files on a fast connection can be spotty, due to how many systems are in place between client - server. There is no resume either with straight browser upload... -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP] Re: PUT vs. POST (was: php File upload)
-Original Message- From: mike [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 4:36 PM To: Per Jessen Cc: php-general@lists.php.net Subject: Re: [PHP] Re: PUT vs. POST (was: php File upload) On 8/8/08, Per Jessen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am not for or against either, I'm just looking for the right argument for PUT support as it seems to be lacking (and I've never found myself in a situation where PUT was the solution). I need to accept files of various sizes - up to 2GB, maybe even more (if it can be supported) - videos, code samples, zips, pdfs, anything. They're coming from various geographies - so slow unreliable connections must be factored in. HTTP upload even with -large- files on a fast connection can be spotty, due to how many systems are in place between client - server. There is no resume either with straight browser upload... My buddy is/was hosting a free licensed-music service that needed segmented uploads. I wrote a Java applet that communicates with a receiver PHP page to upload the file in segments rather than all at once. I got it to successfully upload an MP3, but a few bytes were missing from the destination file. I'll try to go digging through the receiver code and see if I can't find something to post that may give you guys a push in (hopefully) the right direction. I had to use Java for the simple fact that PHP by itself cannot access the local file system in a way that allows for the partial loading of files. If I/we get the source to work, 2GB, 4GB, the contents of the library of congress... all will be feasible. More news at 11, Todd Boyd Web Programmer
