Re: Plasma 5 RC
On Tuesday, July 08, 2014 18:45:41 John Layt wrote: > On 7 July 2014 10:16, Jonathan Riddell wrote: > > On Fri, Jul 04, 2014 at 10:36:00AM +0100, John Layt wrote: > >> Co-installabilty of Plasma 4 and Plasma 5 with minimal work required > >> by the distros is a must if we want to avoid the mess of KDE4. > >> Already openSUSE has announced that you can't have both installed at > >> once, which will force people to choose one or other, when what we > >> really want is for them to be able to try Plasma 5 out while still > >> being able to switch back to 4 if there are things that break their > >> workflow. > > > > They won't be co-installable just as konsole won't be co-installable > > with its kdelibs4 version, it's a new version of the same programme. > > But the parts that are used by applications, libraries and runtime > > parts need to be co-installable so kdelibs4 and kf5 applications can > > be installed on the same system. > > Hmmm, well that's not quite what I was expecting, I was hoping to be > able to install them in parallel and test it out while keeping my old > desktop safe, like I can install and try Gnome or Unity or XFCE. I > don't expect to have parallel installs of apps though, the latest > version should just run under any desktop. No Plasma 5 for me then > until a couple more releases and it's stabilised :-\ Note that they can be perfectly installed into different prefixes, it's just that some distros refuse to ship it as that. I don't really see the problem, but then I'm not a distro or packager person for good reasons (this may be one of them). Cheers, -- sebas http://www.kde.org | http://vizZzion.org | GPG Key ID: 9119 0EF9 ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: Plasma 5 RC
On Tue, Jul 8, 2014 at 2:04 PM, Martin Graesslin wrote: > On Tuesday 08 July 2014 18:45:41 John Layt wrote: > > On 7 July 2014 10:16, Jonathan Riddell wrote: > > > On Fri, Jul 04, 2014 at 10:36:00AM +0100, John Layt wrote: > > >> Co-installabilty of Plasma 4 and Plasma 5 with minimal work required > > >> by the distros is a must if we want to avoid the mess of KDE4. > > >> Already openSUSE has announced that you can't have both installed at > > >> once, which will force people to choose one or other, when what we > > >> really want is for them to be able to try Plasma 5 out while still > > >> being able to switch back to 4 if there are things that break their > > >> workflow. > > > > > > They won't be co-installable just as konsole won't be co-installable > > > with its kdelibs4 version, it's a new version of the same programme. > > > But the parts that are used by applications, libraries and runtime > > > parts need to be co-installable so kdelibs4 and kf5 applications can > > > be installed on the same system. > > > > Hmmm, well that's not quite what I was expecting, I was hoping to be > > able to install them in parallel and test it out while keeping my old > > desktop safe, like I can install and try Gnome or Unity or XFCE. I > > don't expect to have parallel installs of apps though, the latest > > version should just run under any desktop. No Plasma 5 for me then > > until a couple more releases and it's stabilised :-\ > > A few random thoughts: > * some parts (e.g. KWin) are co-installable and can be used in a kde4 > session > * some distros (e.g. openSUSE) offer the possibility to easily switch, you > can > go back to a kde4 session > * stability is way better than you would think. I cannot remember when I > had > the last crash of plasmashell of kwin_x11 and I'm not restarting all those > parts every few minutes (e.g. today I neither restarted plasmashell or > kwin_x11 as I was working on different stuff) > > So I'd say: give it a try if your distro offers a forward and backward > path. If > your distro doesn't offer such a path, nag ;-) > > Cheers > Martin > ___ > Plasma-devel mailing list > Plasma-devel@kde.org > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel > > Also IIRC Kubuntu's Project Neon offers a safe way to test Plasma 5. Between Kubuntu and Suse, I think we're pretty covered here. - James ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: Plasma 5 RC
On Tuesday 08 July 2014 18:45:41 John Layt wrote: > On 7 July 2014 10:16, Jonathan Riddell wrote: > > On Fri, Jul 04, 2014 at 10:36:00AM +0100, John Layt wrote: > >> Co-installabilty of Plasma 4 and Plasma 5 with minimal work required > >> by the distros is a must if we want to avoid the mess of KDE4. > >> Already openSUSE has announced that you can't have both installed at > >> once, which will force people to choose one or other, when what we > >> really want is for them to be able to try Plasma 5 out while still > >> being able to switch back to 4 if there are things that break their > >> workflow. > > > > They won't be co-installable just as konsole won't be co-installable > > with its kdelibs4 version, it's a new version of the same programme. > > But the parts that are used by applications, libraries and runtime > > parts need to be co-installable so kdelibs4 and kf5 applications can > > be installed on the same system. > > Hmmm, well that's not quite what I was expecting, I was hoping to be > able to install them in parallel and test it out while keeping my old > desktop safe, like I can install and try Gnome or Unity or XFCE. I > don't expect to have parallel installs of apps though, the latest > version should just run under any desktop. No Plasma 5 for me then > until a couple more releases and it's stabilised :-\ A few random thoughts: * some parts (e.g. KWin) are co-installable and can be used in a kde4 session * some distros (e.g. openSUSE) offer the possibility to easily switch, you can go back to a kde4 session * stability is way better than you would think. I cannot remember when I had the last crash of plasmashell of kwin_x11 and I'm not restarting all those parts every few minutes (e.g. today I neither restarted plasmashell or kwin_x11 as I was working on different stuff) So I'd say: give it a try if your distro offers a forward and backward path. If your distro doesn't offer such a path, nag ;-) Cheers Martin signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: Plasma 5 RC
On 07/07/2014 07:16 PM, Jonathan Riddell wrote: > On Fri, Jul 04, 2014 at 10:36:00AM +0100, John Layt wrote: >> Co-installabilty of Plasma 4 and Plasma 5 with minimal work required >> by the distros is a must if we want to avoid the mess of KDE4. >> Already openSUSE has announced that you can't have both installed at >> once, which will force people to choose one or other, when what we >> really want is for them to be able to try Plasma 5 out while still >> being able to switch back to 4 if there are things that break their >> workflow. > > They won't be co-installable just as konsole won't be co-installable > with its kdelibs4 version, it's a new version of the same programme. > But the parts that are used by applications, libraries and runtime > parts need to be co-installable so kdelibs4 and kf5 applications can > be installed on the same system. There's still more work to do in this area. For example, a number of applications depend on libkworkspace but there's a collision there between kde-workspace and plasma-workspace. ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: Plasma 5 RC
On 7 July 2014 10:16, Jonathan Riddell wrote: > On Fri, Jul 04, 2014 at 10:36:00AM +0100, John Layt wrote: >> Co-installabilty of Plasma 4 and Plasma 5 with minimal work required >> by the distros is a must if we want to avoid the mess of KDE4. >> Already openSUSE has announced that you can't have both installed at >> once, which will force people to choose one or other, when what we >> really want is for them to be able to try Plasma 5 out while still >> being able to switch back to 4 if there are things that break their >> workflow. > > They won't be co-installable just as konsole won't be co-installable > with its kdelibs4 version, it's a new version of the same programme. > But the parts that are used by applications, libraries and runtime > parts need to be co-installable so kdelibs4 and kf5 applications can > be installed on the same system. Hmmm, well that's not quite what I was expecting, I was hoping to be able to install them in parallel and test it out while keeping my old desktop safe, like I can install and try Gnome or Unity or XFCE. I don't expect to have parallel installs of apps though, the latest version should just run under any desktop. No Plasma 5 for me then until a couple more releases and it's stabilised :-\ John. ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: Plasma 5 RC
On Thu, Jul 03, 2014 at 06:29:33PM +0200, Jonathan Riddell wrote: >Release candidate tars for Plasma 5 appearing soon at depot.kde.org >unstable/plasma/4.98.0 > >Also up at >http://starsky.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/plasma-4.98.0/ > >Please check for sanity and let me know what's broken.A Announce expected >on Tuesday. I've renamed the tars to follow kde git repository names. baloo;frameworks;4143a3c2f7163e6d5073b80c6ccd9e9f64c500a1;baloo-4.98.0.tar.xz;5c2622f6ef4addd1fa431bd9c1f000f2231db127ef840f6bff2ac9842173d537 kfilemetadata;frameworks;2b200ac7ed03331b8de152a9d10c0299aef3c9bb;kfilemetadata-4.98.0.tar.xz;d58af08286e9d85ea6afa77831692c02efba9ba8ddebf57fd342854062425d39 milou;frameworks;7b5c814c2d775d004bb7656ec0a148d0e3e3eec7;milou-4.98.0.tar.xz;16b2781bee4eee98c4087975469db71d0b38877756f031bb68a9a5972afc42cf libkscreen;frameworks;c4b6e8954ab777bb1bcbb04e05570aff77f68cb1;libkscreen-1.73.tar.xz;1d0a29c28028274f204cacd2573f0016b56798f40ca9f3e3d88c34edab38f8cf I've also regenerated the baloo tar to pick up the translations. For distros that want to keep these tars in the same archive as the kdelibs4 equivalents I recommend renaming the older kdelibs4 version, although I haven't come up with a good name to use yet. Jonathan ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: Plasma 5 RC
On Mon, Jul 07, 2014 at 01:00:00PM +0200, Sebastian K?gler wrote: > On Monday, July 07, 2014 10:16:44 Jonathan Riddell wrote: > > Your e-mail also highlights a branding issue, now that we are calling > > the new version of Plasma, Plasma 5 what do we call the old version. > > I've been calling it Plasma 1 as that was the version number used and > > it's not a good idea to be revisionist. > > The product was officially names "Plasma Workspaces 4.x", that's also why > "Plasma 5" makes a lot of sense -- we're only getting rid of the "workspaces". okay dokay, I'll use that. Jonathan ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: Plasma 5 RC
On Monday, July 07, 2014 10:16:44 Jonathan Riddell wrote: > Your e-mail also highlights a branding issue, now that we are calling > the new version of Plasma, Plasma 5 what do we call the old version. > I've been calling it Plasma 1 as that was the version number used and > it's not a good idea to be revisionist. The product was officially names "Plasma Workspaces 4.x", that's also why "Plasma 5" makes a lot of sense -- we're only getting rid of the "workspaces". Cheers, -- sebas http://www.kde.org | http://vizZzion.org | GPG Key ID: 9119 0EF9 ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: Plasma 5 RC
Well the point I'm going for that beyond a technical issue - communications wise it doesn't matter really. As long as whatever you say contains some indication that its the older version. As for the technical side of things - I can't comment. But from a communicative standpoint it really isn't that big a deal if its packaged correctly in communications. On Monday 07 July 2014 10.47.00 Jonathan Riddell wrote: > It's not good to rename stuff which has already been released. When > KDE branding all changed we still used the terms KDE 3 and KDE 4 to > talk about old releases, try to be a revisionist rarely works. > > Jonathan > > On Mon, Jul 07, 2014 at 11:44:32AM +0200, Jens Reuterberg wrote: > > Someone said "branding" so I appeared like a Bloody Mary figure in the > > mirror. > > > > Why not Plasma 4? Or "Plasma Past"? I mean in all honesty the issue isn't > > that big except from a communicative aspect (in which case "Plasma Past", > > "Former Plasma" etc are all good) or a technical aspect (in which case > > the 4.12.something or just Plasma 4 works) > > > > On Monday 07 July 2014 10.16.44 Jonathan Riddell wrote: > > > On Fri, Jul 04, 2014 at 10:36:00AM +0100, John Layt wrote: > > > > Co-installabilty of Plasma 4 and Plasma 5 with minimal work required > > > > by the distros is a must if we want to avoid the mess of KDE4. > > > > Already openSUSE has announced that you can't have both installed at > > > > once, which will force people to choose one or other, when what we > > > > really want is for them to be able to try Plasma 5 out while still > > > > being able to switch back to 4 if there are things that break their > > > > workflow. > > > > > > They won't be co-installable just as konsole won't be co-installable > > > with its kdelibs4 version, it's a new version of the same programme. > > > But the parts that are used by applications, libraries and runtime > > > parts need to be co-installable so kdelibs4 and kf5 applications can > > > be installed on the same system. > > > > > > Your e-mail also highlights a branding issue, now that we are calling > > > the new version of Plasma, Plasma 5 what do we call the old version. > > > I've been calling it Plasma 1 as that was the version number used and > > > it's not a good idea to be revisionist. > > > > > > Jonathan > > > ___ > > > Plasma-devel mailing list > > > Plasma-devel@kde.org > > > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel > > > > ___ > > Plasma-devel mailing list > > Plasma-devel@kde.org > > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel > > ___ > Plasma-devel mailing list > Plasma-devel@kde.org > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: Plasma 5 RC
It's not good to rename stuff which has already been released. When KDE branding all changed we still used the terms KDE 3 and KDE 4 to talk about old releases, try to be a revisionist rarely works. Jonathan On Mon, Jul 07, 2014 at 11:44:32AM +0200, Jens Reuterberg wrote: > Someone said "branding" so I appeared like a Bloody Mary figure in the mirror. > > Why not Plasma 4? Or "Plasma Past"? I mean in all honesty the issue isn't > that > big except from a communicative aspect (in which case "Plasma Past", "Former > Plasma" etc are all good) or a technical aspect (in which case the > 4.12.something or just Plasma 4 works) > > On Monday 07 July 2014 10.16.44 Jonathan Riddell wrote: > > On Fri, Jul 04, 2014 at 10:36:00AM +0100, John Layt wrote: > > > Co-installabilty of Plasma 4 and Plasma 5 with minimal work required > > > by the distros is a must if we want to avoid the mess of KDE4. > > > Already openSUSE has announced that you can't have both installed at > > > once, which will force people to choose one or other, when what we > > > really want is for them to be able to try Plasma 5 out while still > > > being able to switch back to 4 if there are things that break their > > > workflow. > > > > They won't be co-installable just as konsole won't be co-installable > > with its kdelibs4 version, it's a new version of the same programme. > > But the parts that are used by applications, libraries and runtime > > parts need to be co-installable so kdelibs4 and kf5 applications can > > be installed on the same system. > > > > Your e-mail also highlights a branding issue, now that we are calling > > the new version of Plasma, Plasma 5 what do we call the old version. > > I've been calling it Plasma 1 as that was the version number used and > > it's not a good idea to be revisionist. > > > > Jonathan > > ___ > > Plasma-devel mailing list > > Plasma-devel@kde.org > > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel > > ___ > Plasma-devel mailing list > Plasma-devel@kde.org > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: Plasma 5 RC
Someone said "branding" so I appeared like a Bloody Mary figure in the mirror. Why not Plasma 4? Or "Plasma Past"? I mean in all honesty the issue isn't that big except from a communicative aspect (in which case "Plasma Past", "Former Plasma" etc are all good) or a technical aspect (in which case the 4.12.something or just Plasma 4 works) On Monday 07 July 2014 10.16.44 Jonathan Riddell wrote: > On Fri, Jul 04, 2014 at 10:36:00AM +0100, John Layt wrote: > > Co-installabilty of Plasma 4 and Plasma 5 with minimal work required > > by the distros is a must if we want to avoid the mess of KDE4. > > Already openSUSE has announced that you can't have both installed at > > once, which will force people to choose one or other, when what we > > really want is for them to be able to try Plasma 5 out while still > > being able to switch back to 4 if there are things that break their > > workflow. > > They won't be co-installable just as konsole won't be co-installable > with its kdelibs4 version, it's a new version of the same programme. > But the parts that are used by applications, libraries and runtime > parts need to be co-installable so kdelibs4 and kf5 applications can > be installed on the same system. > > Your e-mail also highlights a branding issue, now that we are calling > the new version of Plasma, Plasma 5 what do we call the old version. > I've been calling it Plasma 1 as that was the version number used and > it's not a good idea to be revisionist. > > Jonathan > ___ > Plasma-devel mailing list > Plasma-devel@kde.org > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: Plasma 5 RC
On Fri, Jul 04, 2014 at 10:36:00AM +0100, John Layt wrote: > Co-installabilty of Plasma 4 and Plasma 5 with minimal work required > by the distros is a must if we want to avoid the mess of KDE4. > Already openSUSE has announced that you can't have both installed at > once, which will force people to choose one or other, when what we > really want is for them to be able to try Plasma 5 out while still > being able to switch back to 4 if there are things that break their > workflow. They won't be co-installable just as konsole won't be co-installable with its kdelibs4 version, it's a new version of the same programme. But the parts that are used by applications, libraries and runtime parts need to be co-installable so kdelibs4 and kf5 applications can be installed on the same system. Your e-mail also highlights a branding issue, now that we are calling the new version of Plasma, Plasma 5 what do we call the old version. I've been calling it Plasma 1 as that was the version number used and it's not a good idea to be revisionist. Jonathan ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: Plasma 5 RC
On 07/04/2014 07:19 PM, Jonathan Riddell wrote: > On Fri, Jul 04, 2014 at 11:13:19AM +0200, Vishesh Handa wrote: >>A similar case exists for kactivites. It existed in kde4 as well and the >>current framework has the same name. >>I would really like the tarballs to have the same name. Also, baloo4 and 5 >>are not really co-installable. They both ship executables with the same >>name. > > kactivites, kdnssd, attica and kwallet we have to rename in distributions. > > I was hoping to avoid doing this with Plasma, but it's not a big issue. > > Jonathan +1 for tarballs with a consistent name, one way or the other. ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: Plasma 5 RC
> kactivites, kdnssd, attica and kwallet we have to rename > in distributions. The policy for kactivities is that the service is not co-installable, and the libraries are*. So, the packages can keep the names - kactivities (service), libkactivities6, libkactivities7 or similar. Even pondered separating the repository into kactivities-framework, kactivities-service, kactivities-workspace-addons, but it would be an overkill I'd say. Ch! On 4 July 2014 11:19, Jonathan Riddell wrote: > On Fri, Jul 04, 2014 at 11:13:19AM +0200, Vishesh Handa wrote: > >A similar case exists for kactivites. It existed in kde4 as well and > the > >current framework has the same name. > >I would really like the tarballs to have the same name. Also, baloo4 > and 5 > >are not really co-installable. They both ship executables with the > same > >name. > > kactivites, kdnssd, attica and kwallet we have to rename in distributions. > > I was hoping to avoid doing this with Plasma, but it's not a big issue. > > Jonathan > ___ > Plasma-devel mailing list > Plasma-devel@kde.org > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel > -- KDE, ivan.cu...@kde.org, http://ivan.fomentgroup.org/ gpg key id: 850B6F76 ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: Plasma 5 RC
On Fri, Jul 04, 2014 at 11:13:19AM +0200, Vishesh Handa wrote: >A similar case exists for kactivites. It existed in kde4 as well and the >current framework has the same name. >I would really like the tarballs to have the same name. Also, baloo4 and 5 >are not really co-installable. They both ship executables with the same >name. kactivites, kdnssd, attica and kwallet we have to rename in distributions. I was hoping to avoid doing this with Plasma, but it's not a big issue. Jonathan ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: Plasma 5 RC
On Thu, Jul 03, 2014 at 10:05:48PM +0100, Jonathan Riddell wrote: > On Thu, Jul 03, 2014 at 06:29:33PM +0200, Jonathan Riddell wrote: > >Release candidate tars for Plasma 5 appearing soon at depot.kde.org > >unstable/plasma/4.98.0 > > Some updates now up on depot.. Another one to fix broken .po files e1a55df064d4ca0d16b4569560bbd7ae558f90cb7e7fe8b1831922fcc810ceb1 plasma-desktop-4.98.0.tar.xz http://starsky.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/plasma-4.98.0/plasma-desktop-4.98.0.tar.xz (and coming soon to depot) Jonathan ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: Plasma 5 RC
On Thu, Jul 3, 2014 at 6:29 PM, Jonathan Riddell wrote: > > Please check for sanity and let me know what's broken. Announce expected on > Tuesday. I've noticed that a number of packages (baloo, milou, kfilemetadata) have empty doc folders. I'm not sure if it is a problem. -- Vishesh Handa ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: Plasma 5 RC
On Thursday 03 July 2014, Jonathan Riddell wrote: > Release candidate tars for Plasma 5 appearing soon at depot.kde.org > unstable/plasma/4.98.0 > > Also up at > http://starsky.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/plasma-4.98.0/ > > Please check for sanity and let me know what's broken. Announce expected > on Tuesday. to me they seem good (more eyeballs would always be nice tough) note thet in the final version there will be more wallpapers in the plasma- workspace-wallpapers repo, but unfortunately they are not ready yet (I don't think is a big deal tough?) -- Marco Martin ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
