Re: [PLUG] Gparted questions

[Alex Bedard]

Hi John,

 Does your "Boot" partition contain just /boot, or it's the root of 
your Linux system? If it's just /boot, you can unmount the partition, 
stretch it with Gparted, and then remount it.

 If it's your root file system, it would be safer to reboot it with 
a Live distro and use Gparted to stretch it. There are ways to stretch 
certain root file systems while the system is running using fdisk to 
change the partition boundaries, and then grow the file system to the 
new boundary (I do this with XFS), but I wouldn't recommend it as you 
can easily break your system.

Alex

On 04/04/2017 09:32 PM, John Jason Jordan wrote:
> Denis recently had a problem with insufficient space remaining on his
> boot partition. I didn't participate in the discussion because I didn't
> have any suggestions, plus I thought it wouldn't be a problem for me.
> Well, I was wrong. I've just been bitten by the same thing. I used
> 'sudo apt-get autoremove' and I now have about 1.4 GB free on Boot, so
> I'm OK for the time being, but I need to do a more serious repair.
>
> My Xubuntu 14.04 is installed on a 512GB mSATA drive which is
> partitiioned:
>
>   25GBBoot
>   59GBFree space
>   Home350GB
>   46GBFree space
>
> I set it up this way when I originally installed the OS because I
> thought I might one day want to install a second OS and dual boot. That
> hasn't happened and now I doubt that it ever will. I'd like to add about
> half of the first free space (59GB) to Boot and the remainder to Home.
> And Home is currently about 70% used, so I'd like to add all of the
> second free space to Home as well.
>
> Can Gparted do this without messing up Boot and Home? And am I correct
> in assuming that if I can do this with Gparted I will need to do it
> with a bootable DVD or USB stick, rather than the Gparted that is
> currently installed? And would it be more intelligent of me to wait for
> the next Clinic to do this? (I think the answer to the last question is
> 'yes,' considering that it is only 12 days from now.)
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Re: [PLUG] Which version of MATE are folks using?

[Nat Taylor]

Nobody downloaded it.   I'll leave it up for a while, or try it out
yourself then, was an easy install, except for a couple bugs if you
selected the wrong options.  https://arch-anywhere.org/

On Mon, Apr 3, 2017 at 9:55 PM, Nat Taylor  wrote:

> The Arch Anywhere XFCE pretty much looked identical to their OpenBox, but
> used 192M of memory
>
> I don't feel like exporting an appliance, but if you try, you need to
> install the ARch anywhere Repository this time.
> I also did an arch-anywhere -u first
>
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 3, 2017 at 9:20 PM, Nat Taylor  wrote:
>
>> Here is a link to an .ova Virtualbox Appliance that is an Arch Linux
>> installation created by Arch-Anywhere
>> that has the following desktops installed:
>> Budgie
>> Cinnamon
>> LXDE
>> Mate
>> Openbox
>>
>> (The menu says there's gnome options but they dont work, I didn't install
>> gnome.  I tried to install the Arch-Anywere custom XFCE, but it didn't
>> install for some reason, maybe I need to select XFCE from the menu too.
>> The install was fairly quick an painless, although it should be noted that
>> the Arch Anywhere installer crashes if you select the Arch Anywhere
>> Repository from the Additional Software menu; it says its already in the
>> database but doesn't install.  IT also crashed if you selected (one of,
>> probably the later) gnome group and/or gtk3(Experimental). Everything is
>> already installed here so don't worry about it unless you're trying to
>> replicate this)
>>
>> It uses Lightdm for the Display Manger, and you can select the Desktop
>> Enviroment by clicking on the little icon on the top right of the screen,
>> on the left side of the little line of icons.
>>
>> The username is dude
>> the password is AbitaAbider22@
>> the root password is dugPLUGwhatalug!
>>
>> If you're paranoid I got sneaky and hid some evil stuff in there, disable
>> the networking through Virtualbox, but I don't have the time or desire to
>> do so, and besides, I imagine this is the wrong list to mess with...
>>
>> The custom Arch Anywhere OpenBox is very Haxxor... I actually kinda like
>> it, but Htop says its not quite as fast as LXDE
>> Budgie used the most memory, followed by Cinnamon (which said it would be
>> faster if it wasn't running in frame buffer due to video drivers), followed
>> by Mate, then, OpenBox, the LXDE
>>
>> Mate (246M) felt the most familiar, due to past gnome2 use.  LXDE (162M)
>> was lightning fast and it looked good, and I might be able to get used to
>> that l33t Arch Anywhere OpenBox(174M)...
>>
>>
>> I'm not sure if it's fair to just logout and start a new desktop
>> environment, but thats what I did, and the results seemed consistent...
>>
>> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0Mw4QXQzulid1BsWEVfbFVieHc
>> /view?usp=sharing
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 3, 2017 at 7:42 PM, Chuck Hast  wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 3, 2017 at 7:16 PM, Nat Taylor  wrote:
>>>
>>> >   I do like it
>>> > when there's that mac-like icon dock (conky? docker?  i forget), which
>>> I
>>> > have seen on both distros.
>>> > On Mon, Apr 3, 2017 at 6:26 PM, Rich Shepard >> >
>>> > wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Is this what you are thinking about:
>>> http://glx-dock.org/
>>> It is what I run (it is called Cairo Dock) but it does all of that Mac
>>> stuff too. Very
>>> configurable.
>>>
>>> Chuck Hast  -- KP4DJT --
>>> Glass, five thousand years of history and getting better.
>>> The only container material that the USDA gives blanket approval on.
>>> ___
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>>>
>>
>>
>
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[PLUG] Gparted questions

[John Jason Jordan]

Denis recently had a problem with insufficient space remaining on his
boot partition. I didn't participate in the discussion because I didn't
have any suggestions, plus I thought it wouldn't be a problem for me.
Well, I was wrong. I've just been bitten by the same thing. I used
'sudo apt-get autoremove' and I now have about 1.4 GB free on Boot, so
I'm OK for the time being, but I need to do a more serious repair.

My Xubuntu 14.04 is installed on a 512GB mSATA drive which is
partitiioned:

25GBBoot
59GBFree space
Home350GB
46GBFree space

I set it up this way when I originally installed the OS because I
thought I might one day want to install a second OS and dual boot. That
hasn't happened and now I doubt that it ever will. I'd like to add about
half of the first free space (59GB) to Boot and the remainder to Home.
And Home is currently about 70% used, so I'd like to add all of the
second free space to Home as well. 

Can Gparted do this without messing up Boot and Home? And am I correct
in assuming that if I can do this with Gparted I will need to do it
with a bootable DVD or USB stick, rather than the Gparted that is
currently installed? And would it be more intelligent of me to wait for
the next Clinic to do this? (I think the answer to the last question is
'yes,' considering that it is only 12 days from now.)
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Re: [PLUG] USB enclosures

[John Jason Jordan]

On Tue, 4 Apr 2017 18:47:32 -0700
Denis Heidtmann  dijo:

>Both your main storage and your backup run from the same power line in
>the same house.  What is the likelihood lightning or some other major
>event could affect both at the same time?  Low, but backups are
>intended as insurance for low-likelihood events.  Then there is
>crypto-lock.  I do not know about how that works and how different
>backup schemes protect against it.

First, my house has a 7500 watt natural gas powered generator on the
covered back patio. It is not wired to a transfer switch that
automatically turns it on and switches the house wiring to it in the
event that PGE fails to send me its usual electrons. Instead, it is
wired to various outlets around the house that say 'generator only on
the cover plate. If the power from PGE fails then I have to go out to
the back patio, turn on the generator, then go back inside and move
everything that I need to have running to a 'generator only' outlet.

In the meantime, the computers, routers, switches, internet devices, and
even the stereo are all running on major APC UPS systems - three of
them. They will power the electronics for a couple hours, so I don't
need to be in a hurry to turn on the generator. And to keep the
electronics running after I decide that I need to turn on the
generator, all I need to reconnect to the 'generator only' outlets is
the power cords from these UPS devices, plus the refrigerator,
freezer, and some table lamps. I chose to wire the generator this way
rather than using an automatic transfer switch is because 1) automatic
transfer switches are expensive and, 2) automatic transfer switches
require a permit.

Regarding the permit, I had a very heated debate with the City of
Portland, which ultimately I won. My major point was that my wiring was
not connected in any way to the grid, hence it was impossible for it to
electrocute a lineman working on a power pole out in the street. It is
a completely private system. It helped my argument that I did all the
wiring in my house myself and it all passed code inspections. 

As for lightning strikes, since all the electronics are running off the
UPSs, and they have pretty good surge protection, I am not overly
worried. 

Now, it's possible for something to happen that I have not foreseen,
but then, you take some risks getting out of bed in the morning. You
even take risks if you stay in bed. In the final analysis, we are all
dead. In the meantime, I am satisfied with the precautions that I have
taken. :)
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Re: [PLUG] Finding appropriate USENET group or mailing list?

[Chuck Hast]

I am going to have to try that. Looks like fun...

On Tue, Apr 4, 2017 at 5:23 PM, Russell Senior 
wrote:

> > "Michael" == Michael Barnes  writes:
>
> Michael> On Tue, Apr 4, 2017 at 11:08 AM, Chuck Hast 
> wrote:
> >> Yea, I know the beast, I never got to play with one, but the PDP 8e
> >> was the same way, It had a bunch of switches on the front and you
> >> would enter your data through it. You also told it what address to
> >> load the data into if you were starting at a different address. Here
> >> is a pix of a PDP-8e.
> >> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/34/DEC_PDP_8e.jpg
> >>
> >> The other one I worked on was the PDP-11, those were interesting
> >> times.
> >>
> >>
> Michael> For those who wax nostalgic, you can build your own PDP-8
> Michael> powered by a Raspberry Pi. See
> Michael> https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/pidp-8i-remaking-the-pdp-8i/
> Michael> for details.
>
> I have one of those.
>
>
> --
> Russell Senior, President
> russ...@personaltelco.net
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-- 

Chuck Hast  -- KP4DJT --
Glass, five thousand years of history and getting better.
The only container material that the USDA gives blanket approval on.
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Re: [PLUG] Finding appropriate USENET group or mailing list?

[Chuck Hast]

While I was at DEC in the old San German PR plant, I spent a lot of time in
QC, I was originally hired to do board repair and somehow ended up in QC.

One day this box came in, they removed the box and inside was rack with a
PDP-11 in it. The whole machine was to test core memory used in the PDP-8e's
 and the PDP-11's.

This thing came with a fanfold that was about 12" thick. It had all of the
instructions the code and repair instrucions in it. Along with this was a
2x4
that was about 4ft long. It was affixed to the rear of the cabinet, there
was a
sign that said "see last page of fanfold". The last page had a set of
instruc-
tions if the machine failed and on reboot continued to do the same thing. It
said "Take 2x4 and whack left side of cabinet at level of PDP-11 console,
one
good whack should do it".

I assumed that in the wire wrap backplane on the test jig, there was some
wire wrap issue and rather than dig into that mess and find it they found
that
the 2x4 was faster and worked. (indeed it did).

The test the machine executed printed out a eye pattern overlayed on a grid.
You were looking for width of aperture and position of eye in reference to
the
read signal on the read line.

On Tue, Apr 4, 2017 at 11:30 AM, Rich Shepard 
wrote:

> On Tue, 4 Apr 2017, Chuck Hast wrote:
>
> > The other one I worked on was the PDP-11, those were interesting times.
>
>I did not program or administer a PDP-11, but it ran the remote access
> terminals (Hollerith card reader and wide line printer) in the Chemistry
> building that connected to the IBM S/360s on both U. of Illinois campuses:
> Urbana/Champaign and Chicago.
>
>As part of my graduate program was a course in systems ecology for
> which I
> wrote a FORTRAN IV program modeling lake energetics. The input card deck
> occupied more than one box. At the end of a semester when the CS100/101
> students were trying to complete projects by occupying the remote access
> suite if I was in my lab I'd get a call asking me to read in the cards and
> start a model run. This took enough main frame resources that it drove away
> the undergrads. Then I killed the run so us grad students had access to the
> systems.
>
>Fun and games. My son liked to feed the card reader hopper, push the
> buttons to initiate a job, and watch the line printer spit out page after
> page of output.
>
> Rich
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The only container material that the USDA gives blanket approval on.
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Re: [PLUG] USB enclosures

[Denis Heidtmann]

John,

Both your main storage and your backup run from the same power line in the
same house.  What is the likelihood lightning or some other major event
could affect both at the same time?  Low, but backups are intended as
insurance for low-likelihood events.  Then there is crypto-lock.  I do not
know about how that works and how different backup schemes protect against
it.

I cannot say I have anything as robust as your system--I backup to a local
disk once per week, real time while I am sitting here.  Other times the
local backup disk is powered off.

-Denis

On Tue, Apr 4, 2017 at 6:15 PM, John Jason Jordan  wrote:

> On Tue, 04 Apr 2017 16:55:00 -0700
> Tom  dijo:
>
> >I understand that you are choosing RAID0 because you need 8+8=16GB of
> >storage space instead of redundancy.
> >I would advise you against using RAID0 if you care about your data -
> >single disk failure and you loose everything.
> >JBOD will give you the same storage space at about the same performance
> >over 1Gb/s ethernet + you are only risking some of the data, depending
> >which disk fails. So, JBOD is lower risk at almost no tradeoff versus
> >not-redundant RAID0 over 1Gb/s network.
> >RAID0 is really only useful for performance reasons as locally
> >connected storage inside a workstation - it doubles the disk speed.
> >That being said, local SSD/NVME will beat 2 disk HDD RAID0 in common
> >desktop/media/engineering workloads.
>
> Hmm. Interesting thoughts.
>
> You are correct that I chose Raid 0 because I want 16TB of storage
> space. It s also true that speed is not a critical consideration to me
> for this setup, that is, the speed of the main storage on the USB is
> important, but not the speed of the main storage to the Synology
> because that is just backup. I don't care how long the backups take
> because they run at 2am every night.
>
> It is certainly true that JBOD is lower risk because you probably
> wouldn't lose both disks, but this is backup storage. The main storage
> would be unlikely to be affected at the same time as a disk failure in
> the backup storage. So if I lose the whole backup, I replace the disks,
> and make a new backup from the main storage onto the new disks -
> nothing lost. And even if one disk in the backup Raid is still good,
> I'd replace it anyway, because the disks were purchased and installed
> at the same time, so if one goes, the other is probably not far behind.
> In fact, even if neither fails, when they get to the end of their
> warranty I'd probably replace both anyway. I'd rather keep things from
> failing than have to repair stuff under emergency conditions.
>
> JBOD might be a trifle safer, but I still have the main storage and I'd
> replace both disks anyway, so this benefit seems negligible to me. Raid
> 0 is probably faster, but that is also of negligible value to me. It's
> a tossup.
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Re: [PLUG] USB enclosures

[John Jason Jordan]

On Tue, 04 Apr 2017 16:55:00 -0700
Tom  dijo:

>I understand that you are choosing RAID0 because you need 8+8=16GB of
>storage space instead of redundancy.
>I would advise you against using RAID0 if you care about your data -
>single disk failure and you loose everything.
>JBOD will give you the same storage space at about the same performance
>over 1Gb/s ethernet + you are only risking some of the data, depending
>which disk fails. So, JBOD is lower risk at almost no tradeoff versus
>not-redundant RAID0 over 1Gb/s network.
>RAID0 is really only useful for performance reasons as locally
>connected storage inside a workstation - it doubles the disk speed.
>That being said, local SSD/NVME will beat 2 disk HDD RAID0 in common
>desktop/media/engineering workloads.

Hmm. Interesting thoughts.

You are correct that I chose Raid 0 because I want 16TB of storage
space. It s also true that speed is not a critical consideration to me
for this setup, that is, the speed of the main storage on the USB is
important, but not the speed of the main storage to the Synology
because that is just backup. I don't care how long the backups take
because they run at 2am every night.

It is certainly true that JBOD is lower risk because you probably
wouldn't lose both disks, but this is backup storage. The main storage
would be unlikely to be affected at the same time as a disk failure in
the backup storage. So if I lose the whole backup, I replace the disks,
and make a new backup from the main storage onto the new disks -
nothing lost. And even if one disk in the backup Raid is still good,
I'd replace it anyway, because the disks were purchased and installed
at the same time, so if one goes, the other is probably not far behind.
In fact, even if neither fails, when they get to the end of their
warranty I'd probably replace both anyway. I'd rather keep things from
failing than have to repair stuff under emergency conditions.

JBOD might be a trifle safer, but I still have the main storage and I'd
replace both disks anyway, so this benefit seems negligible to me. Raid
0 is probably faster, but that is also of negligible value to me. It's
a tossup. 
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Re: [PLUG] Finding appropriate USENET group or mailing list?

[Russell Senior]

> "Michael" == Michael Barnes  writes:

Michael> On Tue, Apr 4, 2017 at 11:08 AM, Chuck Hast  wrote:
>> Yea, I know the beast, I never got to play with one, but the PDP 8e
>> was the same way, It had a bunch of switches on the front and you
>> would enter your data through it. You also told it what address to
>> load the data into if you were starting at a different address. Here
>> is a pix of a PDP-8e.
>> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/34/DEC_PDP_8e.jpg
>> 
>> The other one I worked on was the PDP-11, those were interesting
>> times.
>> 
>> 
Michael> For those who wax nostalgic, you can build your own PDP-8
Michael> powered by a Raspberry Pi. See
Michael> https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/pidp-8i-remaking-the-pdp-8i/
Michael> for details.

I have one of those.


-- 
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Re: [PLUG] USB enclosures

[Tom]

I understand that you are choosing RAID0 because you need 8+8=16GB of
storage space instead of redundancy.
I would advise you against using RAID0 if you care about your data -
single disk failure and you loose everything.
JBOD will give you the same storage space at about the same performance
over 1Gb/s ethernet + you are only risking some of the data, depending
which disk fails. So, JBOD is lower risk at almost no tradeoff versus
not-redundant RAID0 over 1Gb/s network.
RAID0 is really only useful for performance reasons as locally
connected storage inside a workstation - it doubles the disk speed.
That being said, local SSD/NVME will beat 2 disk HDD RAID0 in common
desktop/media/engineering workloads.
Tomas
On Tue, 2017-04-04 at 15:19 -0700, John Jason Jordan wrote:
> On Mon, 3 Apr 2017 15:25:26 -0700
> John Jason Jordan  dijo:
> 
> > On Mon, 3 Apr 2017 11:04:30 -0700
> > Galen Seitz  dijo:
> > 
> > > On 04/03/17 10:40, John Jason Jordan wrote:
> > > > I am looking for a 2-bay USB enclosure, at least USB 3.0, with
> > > > internal software capable of Raid 0. I have been looking at the
> > > > ICY
> > > > DOCK MB662U3-2S:
> 
> The shopping is done. I ordered two WD 8TB Red Pro drives (5 year
> warranty) and the Mediasonic ProRaid HUR3-SU3S3 2 Bay 3.5" SATA Hard
> Drive Enclosure - USB 3.0 & eSATA Support UASP and SATA III 6.0Gbps
> Speed:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00KCEAXJW/ref=ask_ql_qh_dp_hza
> 
> The drives are coming from an eBay seller with two-day shipping. The
> Mediasonic is coming from Mediasonic Inc, fulfilled by Amazon,
> expected
> by April 10.
> 
> When it all gets here I will make a final backup of the current old
> and
> end of life 5TB USB drive to the Synology, then pull the 6TB WD Red
> Pro
> drive out of the Synology and set it aside. Then I will install the
> new
> 8TB drives in the Synology and set them up as Raid 0, and make sure
> the
> computer can mount the Synology the same as it now does. And then I
> will
> back up the old 5TB USB drive to the Synology again, now backing up
> to
> the new drives with 16TB of space.
> 
> And finally, I will put the 6TB drive from the Synology into the new
> Mediasonic USB enclosure and plug it into the computer, unplugging
> the
> old 5TB drive to retire it for good. And then I will have some tricky
> stuff to make sure all the programs and the operating system can find
> and use the 6TB in the Mediasonic the same as they used to see and
> use
> the old 5TB drive. 
> 
> I hope my plan works. :)
> 
> Thanks to all for the advice and suggestions. :)
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Re: [PLUG] Finding appropriate USENET group or mailing list?

[Michael Barnes]

On Tue, Apr 4, 2017 at 11:08 AM, Chuck Hast  wrote:

> Yea, I know the beast, I never got to play with one, but the PDP 8e was the
> same way, It had a bunch of switches on the front and you would enter your
> data through it. You also told it what address to load the data into if you
> were
> starting at a different address. Here is a pix of a PDP-8e.
> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/34/DEC_PDP_8e.jpg
>
> The other one I worked on was the PDP-11, those were interesting times.
>
>
For those who wax nostalgic, you can build your own PDP-8 powered by a
Raspberry Pi. See
https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/pidp-8i-remaking-the-pdp-8i/ for details.

Michael

> 
> 
>
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Re: [PLUG] USB enclosures

[John Jason Jordan]

On Mon, 3 Apr 2017 15:25:26 -0700
John Jason Jordan  dijo:

>On Mon, 3 Apr 2017 11:04:30 -0700
>Galen Seitz  dijo:
>
>>On 04/03/17 10:40, John Jason Jordan wrote:
>>> I am looking for a 2-bay USB enclosure, at least USB 3.0, with
>>> internal software capable of Raid 0. I have been looking at the ICY
>>> DOCK MB662U3-2S:

The shopping is done. I ordered two WD 8TB Red Pro drives (5 year
warranty) and the Mediasonic ProRaid HUR3-SU3S3 2 Bay 3.5" SATA Hard
Drive Enclosure - USB 3.0 & eSATA Support UASP and SATA III 6.0Gbps
Speed:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00KCEAXJW/ref=ask_ql_qh_dp_hza

The drives are coming from an eBay seller with two-day shipping. The
Mediasonic is coming from Mediasonic Inc, fulfilled by Amazon, expected
by April 10.

When it all gets here I will make a final backup of the current old and
end of life 5TB USB drive to the Synology, then pull the 6TB WD Red Pro
drive out of the Synology and set it aside. Then I will install the new
8TB drives in the Synology and set them up as Raid 0, and make sure the
computer can mount the Synology the same as it now does. And then I will
back up the old 5TB USB drive to the Synology again, now backing up to
the new drives with 16TB of space.

And finally, I will put the 6TB drive from the Synology into the new
Mediasonic USB enclosure and plug it into the computer, unplugging the
old 5TB drive to retire it for good. And then I will have some tricky
stuff to make sure all the programs and the operating system can find
and use the 6TB in the Mediasonic the same as they used to see and use
the old 5TB drive. 

I hope my plan works. :)

Thanks to all for the advice and suggestions. :)
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Re: [PLUG] Finding appropriate USENET group or mailing list?

[Rich Shepard]

On Tue, 4 Apr 2017, Chuck Hast wrote:

> The other one I worked on was the PDP-11, those were interesting times.

   I did not program or administer a PDP-11, but it ran the remote access
terminals (Hollerith card reader and wide line printer) in the Chemistry
building that connected to the IBM S/360s on both U. of Illinois campuses:
Urbana/Champaign and Chicago.

   As part of my graduate program was a course in systems ecology for which I
wrote a FORTRAN IV program modeling lake energetics. The input card deck
occupied more than one box. At the end of a semester when the CS100/101
students were trying to complete projects by occupying the remote access
suite if I was in my lab I'd get a call asking me to read in the cards and
start a model run. This took enough main frame resources that it drove away
the undergrads. Then I killed the run so us grad students had access to the
systems.

   Fun and games. My son liked to feed the card reader hopper, push the
buttons to initiate a job, and watch the line printer spit out page after
page of output.

Rich
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Re: [PLUG] Finding appropriate USENET group or mailing list?

[Chuck Hast]

Yea, I know the beast, I never got to play with one, but the PDP 8e was the
same way, It had a bunch of switches on the front and you would enter your
data through it. You also told it what address to load the data into if you
were
starting at a different address. Here is a pix of a PDP-8e.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/34/DEC_PDP_8e.jpg

The other one I worked on was the PDP-11, those were interesting times.

On Tue, Apr 4, 2017 at 9:27 AM, Michael Barnes 
wrote:

> On Apr 4, 2017 09:21, "Chuck Hast"  wrote:
>
> On Tue, Apr 4, 2017 at 9:06 AM, Mark Phillips 
> wrote:
>
> > Richard,
> >
> > PS Just so you don't think I am some millennial giving you advice, I am
> > almost your age and have been working in the tech world ever since one
> > entered input into a computer with switches and got output from blinking
> > lights. :)
> >
> > DEC PDP 8 ???
> I remember entering the boot code to read PAPER tape and get the machine
> going. One you had it in CORE memory you were set to go.
> --
>
>
> IMSAI 8080? Input one byte at a time via toggle switches and decipher rows
> of LEDs.
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-- 

Chuck Hast  -- KP4DJT --
Glass, five thousand years of history and getting better.
The only container material that the USDA gives blanket approval on.
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Re: [PLUG] Finding appropriate USENET group or mailing list?

[Michael Barnes]

On Apr 4, 2017 09:21, "Chuck Hast"  wrote:

On Tue, Apr 4, 2017 at 9:06 AM, Mark Phillips 
wrote:

> Richard,
>
> PS Just so you don't think I am some millennial giving you advice, I am
> almost your age and have been working in the tech world ever since one
> entered input into a computer with switches and got output from blinking
> lights. :)
>
> DEC PDP 8 ???
I remember entering the boot code to read PAPER tape and get the machine
going. One you had it in CORE memory you were set to go.
--


IMSAI 8080? Input one byte at a time via toggle switches and decipher rows
of LEDs.
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Re: [PLUG] Finding appropriate USENET group or mailing list?

[Chuck Hast]

On Tue, Apr 4, 2017 at 9:06 AM, Mark Phillips 
wrote:

> Richard,
>
> PS Just so you don't think I am some millennial giving you advice, I am
> almost your age and have been working in the tech world ever since one
> entered input into a computer with switches and got output from blinking
> lights. :)
>
> DEC PDP 8 ???
I remember entering the boot code to read PAPER tape and get the machine
going. One you had it in CORE memory you were set to go.
-- 

Chuck Hast  -- KP4DJT --
Glass, five thousand years of history and getting better.
The only container material that the USDA gives blanket approval on.
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Re: [PLUG] Finding appropriate USENET group or mailing list?

[Mark Phillips]

Richard,

I appreciate your desire to work in a certain way through USENET forums.
You may even find a USENET forum for Wordpress, but I would be concerned
about the quality of the support you will receive from that group. You
could also create your own USENET group for Wordpress on Debian and see how
many folks join. Again, I would worry about the quality of the advice you
would receive.

If your goal is to ask questions and get fast and high quality responses
from the mainstream Wordpress developers and administrators, then you will
have to use the Wordpress support forums, as that is the best support
channel available. You don't have to read a blog to get support. Just
create an account on the Wordpress site and subscribe to one of the support
forums to get emails with all of the conversations. Or, you can just post
questions and get email responses for just your question.

If all you are doing is posting static pages, then I question the use of
Wordpress in the first place. Seems like you are using a formula one race
car to drive to the grocery store once a week to get groceries. You could
migrate all the static pages to an apache server. Perhaps there are USENET
groups for serving static pages with apache.

Sometimes an electrician has to pick up a hammer, some nails, and some wood
to build a frame to complete his/her job - ie an electrician has to know
the rudiments of carpentry as well as how to sting wire. Flexibility and
learning new technologies is the norm for working in the tech world. You
have accepted the challenge of supporting Wordpress, why such resistance to
learning how to use a more modern format for a support forum as is offered
by the thousands of people using and supporting Wordpress?

Good luck!

Mark

PS Just so you don't think I am some millennial giving you advice, I am
almost your age and have been working in the tech world ever since one
entered input into a computer with switches and got output from blinking
lights. :)


On Tue, Apr 4, 2017 at 3:15 AM, Richard Owlett  wrote:

> On 04/03/2017 08:18 AM, Mark Phillips wrote:
> >
> > PS I am a little confused about why you are interested in Wordpress on
> > Debian given your statement "I avoid blogs and web based support
> > groups".
> > It is none of my business, but Wordpress is one of the most used
> > blogging software applications on the planet..
>
> I'll take your postscript first as I think doing so will shed the most
> light.
>
> Just because WordPress is at the top of the blogging market does not
> mean it has no other strong points :}
> It has what it calls "static pages". Looks and acts like a typical webpage.
>
> I had apparently not mentioned some historical details _on this list_.
> I am a member of a church which once had a website. Our new pastor
> wanted to revive that idea. We hired a consultant to implement and host
> the site - he had used WordPress to implement sites for other churches.
> My involvement will be routine maintenance not justifying billable
> consultant time.
>
> I need to get familiar with using WordPress. No way am I going to use a
> live system for my education. My personal system is Debian. A couple of
> clicks in Synaptic got me WordPress on Apache's 'localhost'. It runs
> fine and updating *content* is well thought out. I'm exploring the
> feasibility of some visual tweaks, likely involving use of a child-theme.
>
> As to why USENET or "mailing lists", I'm intrinsically text oriented and
> the GUIishness of blogs creates a nearly impossibly poor signal to noise
> ratio.
>
> I'll have to double check, but I think I've already been down the path
> you related in the major portion of your post.
>
> I asked on this group because having already done web searches I need to
> ask a question that INTRINSICALLY can *not* be answered by a web search.
>
> "Has any human reading this list, in their journey thru life,
> encountered a non-bloggish forum where "WordPress on Debian" would be a
> socially acceptable topic?"
>
> Google et al can not parse that question. It's trivial for humans. The
> universe of possible answers has exactly two members, "yes" and "no".
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [PLUG] Finding appropriate USENET group or mailing list?

[Richard Owlett]

On 04/03/2017 08:18 AM, Mark Phillips wrote:
>
> PS I am a little confused about why you are interested in Wordpress on
> Debian given your statement "I avoid blogs and web based support
> groups".
> It is none of my business, but Wordpress is one of the most used
> blogging software applications on the planet..

I'll take your postscript first as I think doing so will shed the most 
light.

Just because WordPress is at the top of the blogging market does not 
mean it has no other strong points :}
It has what it calls "static pages". Looks and acts like a typical webpage.

I had apparently not mentioned some historical details _on this list_.
I am a member of a church which once had a website. Our new pastor 
wanted to revive that idea. We hired a consultant to implement and host 
the site - he had used WordPress to implement sites for other churches. 
My involvement will be routine maintenance not justifying billable 
consultant time.

I need to get familiar with using WordPress. No way am I going to use a 
live system for my education. My personal system is Debian. A couple of 
clicks in Synaptic got me WordPress on Apache's 'localhost'. It runs 
fine and updating *content* is well thought out. I'm exploring the 
feasibility of some visual tweaks, likely involving use of a child-theme.

As to why USENET or "mailing lists", I'm intrinsically text oriented and 
the GUIishness of blogs creates a nearly impossibly poor signal to noise 
ratio.

I'll have to double check, but I think I've already been down the path 
you related in the major portion of your post.

I asked on this group because having already done web searches I need to 
ask a question that INTRINSICALLY can *not* be answered by a web search.

"Has any human reading this list, in their journey thru life, 
encountered a non-bloggish forum where "WordPress on Debian" would be a 
socially acceptable topic?"

Google et al can not parse that question. It's trivial for humans. The 
universe of possible answers has exactly two members, "yes" and "no".






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[PLUG-ANNOUNCE] Thursday PLUG Meeting: Microcopy: The Art of User Interface Text

[Michael Dexter]

Portland Linux/Unix Group General Meeting Announcement

Who: Mike Jang
What: Microcopy: The Art of User Interface Text
Where: PSU, 1930 SW 4th Ave. Room FAB 86-01 (Lower Level)
When: Thursday, April 6th, 2017 at 7pm
Why: The pursuit of technology freedom
Stream: http://pdxlinux.org/live

No one in fact wants to Read The Fine Manual. Adding a user should not 
require a manual and developers insist they don't need one. This puts 
the burden on the web and desktop UI designer who must be extremely 
communicative with only a handful of words.

This talk will walk you through lessons learned writing Microcopy in 
applications of all sizes.


As a senior technical writer for ForgeRock, Mike Jang spends much of his 
time documenting how deployers can modify JavaScript to customize web 
applications. He has also written a couple dozen technical books, mostly 
focused on Linux certification, and is the author of O’Reilly’s Linux 
Annoyances for Geeks.


Calagator Page: http://calagator.org/events/1250471538

Many will head to the Lucky Lab at 1945 NW Quimby St. after the meeting.

Rideshares to the Lucky Lab available

PLUG Page with information about all PLUG events: http://pdxlinux.org/
Follow PLUG on Twitter: http://twitter.com/pdxlinux

PLUG is open to everyone and does not tolerate abusive behavior on its 
mailing lists or at its meetings.

See you there!

Michael Dexter
PLUG Volunteer

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[PLUG] Thursday PLUG Meeting: Microcopy: The Art of User Interface Text

[Michael Dexter]

Portland Linux/Unix Group General Meeting Announcement

Who: Mike Jang
What: Microcopy: The Art of User Interface Text
Where: PSU, 1930 SW 4th Ave. Room FAB 86-01 (Lower Level)
When: Thursday, April 6th, 2017 at 7pm
Why: The pursuit of technology freedom
Stream: http://pdxlinux.org/live

No one in fact wants to Read The Fine Manual. Adding a user should not 
require a manual and developers insist they don't need one. This puts 
the burden on the web and desktop UI designer who must be extremely 
communicative with only a handful of words.

This talk will walk you through lessons learned writing Microcopy in 
applications of all sizes.


As a senior technical writer for ForgeRock, Mike Jang spends much of his 
time documenting how deployers can modify JavaScript to customize web 
applications. He has also written a couple dozen technical books, mostly 
focused on Linux certification, and is the author of O’Reilly’s Linux 
Annoyances for Geeks.


Calagator Page: http://calagator.org/events/1250471538

Many will head to the Lucky Lab at 1945 NW Quimby St. after the meeting.

Rideshares to the Lucky Lab available

PLUG Page with information about all PLUG events: http://pdxlinux.org/
Follow PLUG on Twitter: http://twitter.com/pdxlinux

PLUG is open to everyone and does not tolerate abusive behavior on its 
mailing lists or at its meetings.

See you there!

Michael Dexter
PLUG Volunteer

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