Re: [PLUG] I'm shopping for hardware, what about Lenovo?

[Bill Barry]

On Aug 23, 2017 7:54 PM, "Vedanta Teacher" 
wrote:

Everyone,

  My Dell Insperon 15.6" that I was going to use in school this
September just died (the Motherboard no longer recognized
the Hd).


Are you sure it is not just a bad hard drive? Will it boot from a DVD or
USB drive?

Bill



I need reliability & durability more than anything. I'll need it
to last at least 1 year.

I'll be going to school for Software Engineering & Embedded
systems e.g. HTML, Perl, Unix, etc, etc.

I was thinking about replacing it with a Lenovo ThinkPad T570:

15.6" display

32 GB DDR4 2133Mhz SoDIMM Ram

For the hard drive they show :

Intel 180GB SSD 2.5 SATA3,OPAL2.0
or
512 GB SSD OPAL2.0 PCle-NVMe

(The 1 Tb version is $140 more.)

Q: What is the difference between

SATA3,OPAL2.0 & PCle-NVMe?

As an OS I'll probably be running Linux Mint, I just don't have
time to tinker with new operating bases at this point.

Blessings,
Paul W.
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Re: [PLUG] I'm shopping for hardware, what about Lenovo?

[John Jason Jordan]

On Wed, 23 Aug 2017 17:53:49 -0700
Vedanta Teacher  dijo:

>I was thinking about replacing it with a Lenovo ThinkPad T570:

Thinkpads are famous for reliability and Linux compatibility. But you
should also check out the offerings from System76.
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Re: [PLUG] The joy of refactoring

[Dave]

Sounds like a winner, Alan. Your Mother was very smart. Any student 
placed in a computer lab will either be turned on forever or quickly 
flee. The appeal of the card punch card machines, and their noise, 
followed by waiting for the computer to return a printout on the big 
line printer or slow TTY machine was magic.

My native tongue is also Fortran. Followed by BASIC which I dearly love. 
I wrote dozens of books on BASIC with translations into a dozen foreign 
languages. One of them was the classic _THE BASIC HANDBOOK, Encyclopedia 
of the BASIC Computer Language_. Hated to see BASIC disappear since 
*WHEN USED **FOR WHAT IT WAS INTENDED* it took absolute beginners from 
nothing to having fun and success on the first day. But with enough 
horsepower to carry them much further as desired. And those who wanted 
more could make the easy jump to the higher power but more cryptic 
language of the day.

Professors Kemeny and Kurtz did a good job creating BASIC and tens of 
millions of students were introduced to computers via derivative 
versions over the years. Most of them didn't go in computers of course 
but all gained a serious appreciation for what computers are all about. 
My Dentist today speaks glowingly of the time he spent in HS with BASIC, 
and even remembers some of it. -Dave.


On 8/23/2017 5:13 PM, Alan wrote:
> On Wed, 2017-08-23 at 10:30 -0700, Dave wrote:
>> In 1969-70 I was at the U of Ills where I met a DEC PDP-8. Would
>> change
>> my career path.
>>
>> Ran my Doctoral Dissertation data analyses on an IBM 360/40 in 1970
>> at
>> Cal Poly SLO. Fun days.
> When I moved to Alaska I had been going to a private school. My reading
> skills were very good, but my math skills we not. My mother hired a
> math tutor for me from the University of Alaska. She figured the best
> method to get me interested in math was by teaching me Fortran. I was
> in 4th grade at the time. Spent a lot of time in the computer lab from
> then on.
>
>>
>> On 8/23/2017 6:01 AM, Rich Shepard wrote:
>>> On Tue, 22 Aug 2017, Alan wrote:
>>>
 Sometimes a rewrite is a useful and needed thing.
>>>  Thanks, Alan, for allowing us to share our obscure bug
>>> experiences on this
>>> thread. :-)
>>>
>>>  In grad school in 1972 I wrote an ecosystem ecological energy
>>> flow model
>>> in FORTRAN IV to run on the U. of Illinois' IBM S/360. It used more
>>> than a
>>> whole box of 80-column Hollerith cards for input. When it ran it
>>> produed
>>> incorrect results, but only the same 2 or 3 wrong answers each
>>> time. So I
>>> printed the source code listing on the wide green-bar paper that
>>> all the
>>> line printers used. The output was about 1 inch thick.
>>>
>>>  I carefully examined each line of code multiple times without
>>> seeing the
>>> error. Finally, I took the printed listing to the computer center's
>>> help
>>> desk. They examined it without finding the problem.
>>>
>>>  One day, strictly by chance while looking at a new printed copy
>>> (likely
>>> done on a printer with a newer ribbon) I saw the error jump up and
>>> bite me
>>> on the nose.
>>>
>>>  Instead of a loop index written as FOR I = 1 TO N I had
>>> mistyped it as FOR
>>> 1 = 1 TO N. Distinguishing 1 from the uppercase I was difficult
>>> and, because
>>> all of us expected to see I and not 1 in that position we all
>>> overlooked it.
>>>
>>>  Haven't forgotten this after all these years.
>>>
>>> Rich
>>> ___
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Re: [PLUG] Ethereum Mining

[Vedanta Teacher]

Merlin,

  Ethereum is a 'cripto-currency' like Bitcoin e.g. it's a
computer algorithm
based on blockchain. That opens the question of what currency is be it
sea-shells, cattle, gold or pretty pieces of paper like we use...

If you do it as a hobby keep it as such. Some Chinese adventurers &
others have set up racks of powerful computers to mine crypto-currency
so you would always loose in competition with them.

Run some quick searches on Firefox to learn more.

Blessings,
Paul W.

On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 7:59 PM, Merlin Hold  wrote:

> I have been hearing a lot about Ethereum Mining over the past few years.  I
> don't know what it actually is and if I should use it on my computer.
>
> Merlin
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[PLUG] I'm shopping for hardware, what about Lenovo?

[Vedanta Teacher]

Everyone,

  My Dell Insperon 15.6" that I was going to use in school this
September just died (the Motherboard no longer recognized
the Hd).

I need reliability & durability more than anything. I'll need it
to last at least 1 year.

I'll be going to school for Software Engineering & Embedded
systems e.g. HTML, Perl, Unix, etc, etc.

I was thinking about replacing it with a Lenovo ThinkPad T570:

15.6" display

32 GB DDR4 2133Mhz SoDIMM Ram

For the hard drive they show :

Intel 180GB SSD 2.5 SATA3,OPAL2.0
or
512 GB SSD OPAL2.0 PCle-NVMe

(The 1 Tb version is $140 more.)

Q: What is the difference between

SATA3,OPAL2.0 & PCle-NVMe?

As an OS I'll probably be running Linux Mint, I just don't have
time to tinker with new operating bases at this point.

Blessings,
Paul W.
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Re: [PLUG] Selecting a SSD

[Vedanta Teacher]

I'm doing this from memory ,and I've been up since 03:00 but, I think
the 850 EVO *comes* with encryption if you're interested in such
things.

  I have an 850 EVO that I put in an ASUS laptop that I've never
had a problem with.

Blessings,
Paul W.


On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 8:59 PM, Denis Heidtmann 
wrote:

> Great!  Thanks for all the responses.
>
> On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 7:55 PM, Pete Lancashire 
> wrote:
>
> > Rich said all that needs to be said
> >
> > > As long as you back up your /home and data you're covered
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 6:05 PM, Rich Shepard 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > On Tue, 22 Aug 2017, Denis Heidtmann wrote:
> > >
> > > > Samsung was recommended here. I see $150 for their 850 EVO 480G, and
> > they
> > > > have a 5 Yr. warranty v.s. 3 Yr. for the other brands in that price
> > > range.
> > > > But a number of reviewers report terrible interactions with their
> > > warranty
> > > > support. Anybody here have similar issues? Is the likelihood of
> failure
> > > > low enough to ignore this issue? (My plan is to have the SSD my only
> > > > drive, and backup of data but not a duplicate of the system.)
> > >
> > > Denis,
> > >
> > >My experience since I bought my first Seagate 20M ST225 in 1985 is
> > > having
> > > one drive fail about a dozen years ago ... a WD Black 500G which the
> > > company
> > > immediately replaced. I suspect the truism that if electonics don't
> > quickly
> > > fail they'll last a long time still holds.
> > >
> > >I have the same Samsung 850 EVO 480G SSD in my Dell Latitude E5410
> > and a
> > > smaller Samsung 160G SSD in my Dell Latitude 2100. I don't think about
> > > failure of the drives.
> > >
> > >As long as you back up your /home and data you're covered ... except
> > for
> > > the time involved in replacing the failed drive and re-installing your
> > > favorite distribution.
> > >
> > > Rich
> > > ___
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> > > PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org
> > > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
> > >
> > ___
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> >
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Re: [PLUG] The joy of refactoring

[Alan]

On Wed, 2017-08-23 at 10:30 -0700, Dave wrote:
> In 1969-70 I was at the U of Ills where I met a DEC PDP-8. Would
> change 
> my career path.
> 
> Ran my Doctoral Dissertation data analyses on an IBM 360/40 in 1970
> at 
> Cal Poly SLO. Fun days.

When I moved to Alaska I had been going to a private school. My reading
skills were very good, but my math skills we not. My mother hired a
math tutor for me from the University of Alaska. She figured the best
method to get me interested in math was by teaching me Fortran. I was
in 4th grade at the time. Spent a lot of time in the computer lab from
then on.

> 
> 
> On 8/23/2017 6:01 AM, Rich Shepard wrote:
> > On Tue, 22 Aug 2017, Alan wrote:
> > 
> > > Sometimes a rewrite is a useful and needed thing.
> > 
> > Thanks, Alan, for allowing us to share our obscure bug
> > experiences on this
> > thread. :-)
> > 
> > In grad school in 1972 I wrote an ecosystem ecological energy
> > flow model
> > in FORTRAN IV to run on the U. of Illinois' IBM S/360. It used more
> > than a
> > whole box of 80-column Hollerith cards for input. When it ran it
> > produed
> > incorrect results, but only the same 2 or 3 wrong answers each
> > time. So I
> > printed the source code listing on the wide green-bar paper that
> > all the
> > line printers used. The output was about 1 inch thick.
> > 
> > I carefully examined each line of code multiple times without
> > seeing the
> > error. Finally, I took the printed listing to the computer center's
> > help
> > desk. They examined it without finding the problem.
> > 
> > One day, strictly by chance while looking at a new printed copy
> > (likely
> > done on a printer with a newer ribbon) I saw the error jump up and
> > bite me
> > on the nose.
> > 
> > Instead of a loop index written as FOR I = 1 TO N I had
> > mistyped it as FOR
> > 1 = 1 TO N. Distinguishing 1 from the uppercase I was difficult
> > and, because
> > all of us expected to see I and not 1 in that position we all
> > overlooked it.
> > 
> > Haven't forgotten this after all these years.
> > 
> > Rich
> > ___
> > PLUG mailing list
> > PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org
> > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
> 
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Re: [PLUG] Alpine issue after upgrade

[Rich Shepard]

On Mon, 21 Aug 2017, Paul Heinlein wrote:

> I just built and installed Alpine 2.21 on my Mac. I'm unable to duplicate
> your problem with forwarding messages.

Paul,

   I tried to build 2.21 from slackware-current, but it needs updated
libraries not in 14.2. So, I'm limited to 2.20.

   Just subscribed to the alpine-info mail list at UDub. Will see if anyone
there has an idea how to fix the missing subject line in forwarded messages.

Rich
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Re: [PLUG] The joy of refactoring

[Paul Heinlein]

On Wed, 23 Aug 2017, Tom wrote:


Yes, Perl is fun:
* I do not recognize any Perl code I wrote more than about year ago
  - despite all the evidence at hand


Having been down that particular road too often, I now try Really Hard 
to write comments before coding. I fail at this frequently, but I'm 
always delighted when I succeed. I maintain a Perl script that 
analyzes my current portfolio, with data held in a YAML file, and my 
last couple editing sessions have been very smooth thanks to that 
approach.


Also, some great advice I once read about commenting: Document the 
data, not the process, unless the latter is very obscure or 
ungoogleable.


--
Paul Heinlein
heinl...@madboa.com
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Re: [PLUG] The joy of refactoring

[Rich Shepard]

On Wed, 23 Aug 2017, Alan wrote:

> That is one of the first lessons you learn if you learned to type on a
> Royal manual typewriter. Looking for 0 and O is another.

   Yeah, I had those, too. The cards were created on the 029 keypunch
(kachunk, kachunk, kachunk).

Rich
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Re: [PLUG] The joy of refactoring

[Dave]

In 1969-70 I was at the U of Ills where I met a DEC PDP-8. Would change 
my career path.

Ran my Doctoral Dissertation data analyses on an IBM 360/40 in 1970 at 
Cal Poly SLO. Fun days.


On 8/23/2017 6:01 AM, Rich Shepard wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Aug 2017, Alan wrote:
>
>> Sometimes a rewrite is a useful and needed thing.
> Thanks, Alan, for allowing us to share our obscure bug experiences on this
> thread. :-)
>
> In grad school in 1972 I wrote an ecosystem ecological energy flow model
> in FORTRAN IV to run on the U. of Illinois' IBM S/360. It used more than a
> whole box of 80-column Hollerith cards for input. When it ran it produed
> incorrect results, but only the same 2 or 3 wrong answers each time. So I
> printed the source code listing on the wide green-bar paper that all the
> line printers used. The output was about 1 inch thick.
>
> I carefully examined each line of code multiple times without seeing the
> error. Finally, I took the printed listing to the computer center's help
> desk. They examined it without finding the problem.
>
> One day, strictly by chance while looking at a new printed copy (likely
> done on a printer with a newer ribbon) I saw the error jump up and bite me
> on the nose.
>
> Instead of a loop index written as FOR I = 1 TO N I had mistyped it as FOR
> 1 = 1 TO N. Distinguishing 1 from the uppercase I was difficult and, because
> all of us expected to see I and not 1 in that position we all overlooked it.
>
> Haven't forgotten this after all these years.
>
> Rich
> ___
> PLUG mailing list
> PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org
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Re: [PLUG] The joy of refactoring

[Alan]

On Wed, 2017-08-23 at 06:01 -0700, Rich Shepard wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Aug 2017, Alan wrote:
> 
> > Sometimes a rewrite is a useful and needed thing.
> 
>Thanks, Alan, for allowing us to share our obscure bug experiences
> on this
> thread. :-)
> 
>In grad school in 1972 I wrote an ecosystem ecological energy flow
> model
> in FORTRAN IV to run on the U. of Illinois' IBM S/360. It used more
> than a
> whole box of 80-column Hollerith cards for input. When it ran it
> produed
> incorrect results, but only the same 2 or 3 wrong answers each time.
> So I
> printed the source code listing on the wide green-bar paper that all
> the
> line printers used. The output was about 1 inch thick.
> 
>I carefully examined each line of code multiple times without
> seeing the
> error. Finally, I took the printed listing to the computer center's
> help
> desk. They examined it without finding the problem.
> 
>One day, strictly by chance while looking at a new printed copy
> (likely
> done on a printer with a newer ribbon) I saw the error jump up and
> bite me
> on the nose.
> 
>Instead of a loop index written as FOR I = 1 TO N I had mistyped
> it as FOR
> 1 = 1 TO N. Distinguishing 1 from the uppercase I was difficult and,
> because
> all of us expected to see I and not 1 in that position we all
> overlooked it.
> 
>Haven't forgotten this after all these years.
> 

That is one of the first lessons you learn if you learned to type on a
Royal manual typewriter. Looking for 0 and O is another.

I remember the days of Fortran and punch cards. I still remember how to
make Lace Cards.

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Re: [PLUG] The joy of refactoring

[Tom]

Yes, Perl is fun:
* I do not recognize any Perl code I wrote more than about year ago -
despite all the evidence at hand
* Bugs you do not see do not exist AKA Schrodinger's cat AKA looking
for any stuff (code or not) makes it appear or disappear depending
whether you want to find it or not.
I have decades of experimental evidence to support it!
-T
On Tue, 2017-08-22 at 19:48 -0700, Alan wrote:
> Found an obscure bug in a Perl program that I started over 20 years
> ago. (I have made changes off and on since then.) Decided to rewrite
> it. Found even more bugs. (A few of the WTF variety.)
> 
> Sometimes a rewrite is a useful and needed thing.
> 
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