Re: [PLUG] HP Laserjet 4M+ ... Toner
On Tue, Dec 19, 2023 at 11:15:01AM -0800, Michael Ewan wrote: > It seems there are a lot of sources for the #48 toner, is "decent" the > problem? Many of those are "drill-and-fill", without replacing seals and gaskets and streaky drums. After a second multihour strip-and-clean of my old HLPJ 4M, I also (like Galen) gave my old machine to younger owner. Besides toner, and slow processing speed, the 4M was a great machine - we used to claim that it could print tee-shirts. I currently use two HP4100N printers with duplexers, with one spare, but face a similar "crappy toner" risk. The risk is not as bad as my hp2605dn color laser printer, which has FOUR toner cartridges that can leak, and a fan that can suck leaked toner into the optical box. That is a two hour teardown and rebuild, just to wipe a bit of toner off the mirrors. When it works, it makes BEYOOTIFUL color images, unlike the Brother MFC-9440CN that I mostly use. The Brother is easy to fix and clean, but the images look like a child's crayon drawings. Sigh. Keith -- Keith Lofstrom kei...@keithl.com
Re: [PLUG] HP Laserjet 4M+ with duplexer free to good home
On 12/19/23 13:04, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: I'm very tempted to come pick up your printer Galen. But if someone asked me "can I have all your 4+ and I'll take Galen's and put them all together to make a working Printer" I'm sure my common sense would win out and I'd happily hand them all over! It's still here calling to you Ted. It isn't failing much more quickly than "it should"It's failing more quickly because it's engineered to fail more quickly because it's least cost materials. Well, the latest cartridge that I installed was purchased off of ebay, and from all appearances it looked to be an original HP cartridge. Of course, if it was truly an HP cartridge, that means it was likely quite old, which may explain the poor performance. It's possible that a new wiper might cure the problem, but that's more trouble than I care to deal with for such an old printer/cartridge. galen -- Galen Seitz gal...@seitzassoc.com
Re: [PLUG] HP Laserjet 4M+ with duplexer free to good home
I have 4 HP Laserjet 4+ printers myself. One of them fell off the table it was on, on to some papers and the internals are a bit wedged and now it jams on every print, the other 3 have jamming problems as well and Print reliably only off the manual feeder only. I also have the duplexer and PostScript simms in them. I also ended up buying a Canon for my wife, as she did not have the patience to feed in a page at a time. I use the HP in the basement on my office down there. With all printers even brand new ones the rollers wear at a rather predictable rate. There's tons of new roller kits available for the 4+ but every time I think about buying a roller kit I end up finding another entire 4+ for free and Use that instead. That's why I have the other printers saved. One of these days I'm going to run out of free 4+s and just have to buy the roller kit. I'm very tempted to come pick up your printer Galen. But if someone asked me "can I have all your 4+ and I'll take Galen's and put them all together to make a working Printer" I'm sure my common sense would win out and I'd happily hand them all over! I have also refilled the 98A toner cartridges, it is pretty easy to do and the toner bottles are extremely cheap. You can usually get 2 or maybe 3 refills on a cartridge before the drum starts losing the photosensitive material. The problem with the toner cartridges for these old printers is typical of parts for many older computers and electronic devices. The same problem exists for batteries for older cell phone models and for auto parts for older cars. What people don't realize is that there's a huge industry in China that specializes in making parts for electronic devices that are obsolete. Apple for example has a vested interest in getting people to buy new cell phones so they price replacement screens and batteries for older phone models sky high. The 2005 movie "Robots" just highlights this problem. Thus the Chinese industry has grown up. They reverse engineer parts like toner cartridges, brake pads, lithium batteries and so on. And because it's all being sold to people who don't have a lot of money and can't afford brand new devices, they engineer for least cost. That toner cartridge printing grey was probably made in a factory in China 3 months before you bought it. The parts in it are all least cost, the photoconductive material is cheaper and thinner, the toner particles are uneven, etc. It isn't failing much more quickly than "it should"It's failing more quickly because it's engineered to fail more quickly because it's least cost materials. It's fairly easy to run the numbers and determine if buying those cartridges is worth it. A 98A cartridge brand new was rated at 6,800 pages at 5% MSRP was $165. Actual retail when they were still available was around $100 as I recall about a penny and a half a page. Today the market is flooded with counterfeits that are $30 per. A brand new Cheap Chinese 98A cartridge is around $30. But it's going to fail long before hitting 6,800 pages. So, if it fails at 2000 pages, then guess what you have just achieved the very same 1.5 cents a page that the original manufacturer's cartridge was able to do. If it fails at 1000 page then your cost per page is probably still 1.5 cents if you factor in the amortization cost of a brand new printer. If it fails at 500 pages than it's cheaper to buy a new printer. That's why the cheap Chinese industry engineers their 98A cartridges to fail at around 1500 pages - that's the sweet spot - cheap enough that people will still buy them not so bad they will give up the printer because it's now costing them money. These calculations are not hard to do, anyone can do them. They can be done for any of the older electronic devices. So there's no point at claiming the cheap Chinese cartridge is "supposed to last 6800 pages" It's not. Ted -Original Message- From: PLUG On Behalf Of Galen Seitz Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2023 12:00 PM To: p...@pdxlinux.org Subject: Re: [PLUG] HP Laserjet 4M+ with duplexer free to good home On 12/19/23 11:15, Michael Ewan wrote: > It seems there are a lot of sources for the #48 toner, is "decent" the > problem? Yes. The past two or three cartridges I have purchased have worked well initially, but the print quality has degraded much more quickly than it should. In September I contacted PrinterTechs.com about it. They sell printer parts, so there is incentive for them to sell me parts for repair. Despite that incentive, here's part of the response I received: "Remanufactured cartridges would be the way to go if you decide to keep the printer, but I'd recommend getting a newer printer. Age is starting to catch up with the 4 plus, we see power supplies failing more often in that model than we used to." galen -- Galen Seitz gal...@seitzassoc.com
Re: [PLUG] HP Laserjet 4M+ with duplexer free to good home
The HP Laserjet 4+ uses #98A cartridge not #48 Ted -Original Message- From: PLUG On Behalf Of Michael Ewan Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2023 11:15 AM To: Portland Linux/Unix Group Cc: Portland Linux/Unix Group Subject: Re: [PLUG] HP Laserjet 4M+ with duplexer free to good home It seems there are a lot of sources for the #48 toner, is "decent" the problem? On Tue, Dec 19, 2023 at 10:40 AM Galen Seitz wrote: > Hi, > > As it has become difficult to find decent toner cartridges, I have > decided to retire my HP Laserjet 4M+ and duplexer. The printer also > has an Ethernet interface. The printer still prints, but with the > current toner cartridge, the background of the print is grey. It's > free to anyone that wants to come pick it up (close-in SE). If > there's no interest, it's going to Free Geek on Thursday. > > FWIW, I replaced it with a Brother MFC-L2750DWB All-In-One from Costco > ($300). > > galen > -- > Galen Seitz > gal...@seitzassoc.com >
Re: [PLUG] HP Laserjet 4M+ with duplexer free to good home
On 12/19/23 11:15, Michael Ewan wrote: It seems there are a lot of sources for the #48 toner, is "decent" the problem? Yes. The past two or three cartridges I have purchased have worked well initially, but the print quality has degraded much more quickly than it should. In September I contacted PrinterTechs.com about it. They sell printer parts, so there is incentive for them to sell me parts for repair. Despite that incentive, here's part of the response I received: "Remanufactured cartridges would be the way to go if you decide to keep the printer, but I'd recommend getting a newer printer. Age is starting to catch up with the 4 plus, we see power supplies failing more often in that model than we used to." galen -- Galen Seitz gal...@seitzassoc.com
Re: [PLUG] HP Laserjet 4M+ with duplexer free to good home
It seems there are a lot of sources for the #48 toner, is "decent" the problem? On Tue, Dec 19, 2023 at 10:40 AM Galen Seitz wrote: > Hi, > > As it has become difficult to find decent toner cartridges, I have > decided to retire my HP Laserjet 4M+ and duplexer. The printer also has > an Ethernet interface. The printer still prints, but with the current > toner cartridge, the background of the print is grey. It's free to > anyone that wants to come pick it up (close-in SE). If there's no > interest, it's going to Free Geek on Thursday. > > FWIW, I replaced it with a Brother MFC-L2750DWB All-In-One from Costco > ($300). > > galen > -- > Galen Seitz > gal...@seitzassoc.com >
[PLUG] HP Laserjet 4M+ with duplexer free to good home
Hi, As it has become difficult to find decent toner cartridges, I have decided to retire my HP Laserjet 4M+ and duplexer. The printer also has an Ethernet interface. The printer still prints, but with the current toner cartridge, the background of the print is grey. It's free to anyone that wants to come pick it up (close-in SE). If there's no interest, it's going to Free Geek on Thursday. FWIW, I replaced it with a Brother MFC-L2750DWB All-In-One from Costco ($300). galen -- Galen Seitz gal...@seitzassoc.com
