Re: Cheap Dell Laptops

[Kevin Fries]

Turning off uefi will turn off secure boot also.  But secure boot is your
actual problem.

Kevin
On Jul 19, 2014 10:26 AM,  wrote:

>
> And maybe it was some confusion on my part.  I did have to turn off the
> UEFI? with On my Dell when I installed Linux on it.
>
>
> On 2014-07-19 10:21, Kevin Fries wrote:
>
>> UEFI is not the problem. As a matter of fact,  it probably helps the
>> Linux enthusiasts break the Microsoft Monopoly better than anything I
>> have seen in a long time.
>>
>> UEFI is designed such that there is one one boot secror.  Instead, it
>> had 128 boot records and that number can be extended infinitely.
>> The standard was also opened years ago... it was designed by Intel.
>>
>> Microsoft not one to have their illegal monopoly threatened, came up
>> with another scheme to lock out open operating systems...
>> security-related OS
>> http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security-evaluated_operating_system
>> [2].  In this scheme, the vendor would only allow these secured,
>> certified operating systems to be installed.  You had a choice
>> initially of one... Windows, but you had only the choice of that one
>> on the list.
>>
>> Just remember, you may recognize many names on that list, but they are
>> all paid operating systems.  Because the cost of this certification
>> is expensive.  That's why you find Enterprise Red Hat, but not
>> Fedora.
>>
>> Well, the real joke is, most machines sold with Windows 8 have this
>> Bios feature turned on, but there is an option in the Bios to turn it
>> off.  When you are no longer limiter to certified OSes, you can
>> install whatever you like.
>>
>> Now if HE were only as worried about making their customers happy as
>> they were making Microsoft happy, they would have told you that.
>>
>> Kevin
>> On Jul 18, 2014 10:42 PM,  wrote:
>>
>>  On 2014-07-18 19:49, Jerry Snitselaar wrote:
>>> On Fri Jul 18 14, techli...@phpcoderusa.com wrote:
>>> On 2014-07-18 14:19, Bob Holtzman wrote:
>>>
 On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 11:52:05AM -0700,

>>> techli...@phpcoderusa.com wrote:
>>>

> From my experience Dell is Linux friendly. I'd double check if it
> will run Linux though.  I think the new HP's will not.
>

 Reason?

>>>
>>> I think it has something to do with the bios.  I have a 4.5 year
>>> old HP
>>> laptop that runs Linux, however it is my understanding the new ones
>>> will
>>> not.
>>>
>>> Are you talking about uefi? That shouldn't be a problem.
>>>
>>
>>  I do not recall.  It has been about a year. I was going to buy an HP
>> laptop and either someone on the list told me it would not run Linux
>> or HP told me so.  I did not buy the laptop.
>>
>>
>> Last year when I bought a new Dell workstation. After telling
>>
> them I

>
> ..huge snip..
>
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Re: Cheap Dell Laptops

[techlists]

And maybe it was some confusion on my part.  I did have to turn off the 
UEFI? with On my Dell when I installed Linux on it.



On 2014-07-19 10:21, Kevin Fries wrote:

UEFI is not the problem. As a matter of fact,  it probably helps the
Linux enthusiasts break the Microsoft Monopoly better than anything I
have seen in a long time. 

UEFI is designed such that there is one one boot secror.  Instead, it
had 128 boot records and that number can be extended infinitely.  
The standard was also opened years ago... it was designed by Intel.

Microsoft not one to have their illegal monopoly threatened, came up
with another scheme to lock out open operating systems...
security-related OS
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security-evaluated_operating_system
[2].  In this scheme, the vendor would only allow these secured,
certified operating systems to be installed.  You had a choice
initially of one... Windows, but you had only the choice of that one
on the list.

Just remember, you may recognize many names on that list, but they are
all paid operating systems.  Because the cost of this certification
is expensive.  That's why you find Enterprise Red Hat, but not
Fedora.

Well, the real joke is, most machines sold with Windows 8 have this
Bios feature turned on, but there is an option in the Bios to turn it
off.  When you are no longer limiter to certified OSes, you can
install whatever you like.

Now if HE were only as worried about making their customers happy as
they were making Microsoft happy, they would have told you that.

Kevin
On Jul 18, 2014 10:42 PM,  wrote:


On 2014-07-18 19:49, Jerry Snitselaar wrote:
On Fri Jul 18 14, techli...@phpcoderusa.com wrote:
On 2014-07-18 14:19, Bob Holtzman wrote:

On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 11:52:05AM -0700,

techli...@phpcoderusa.com wrote:


From my experience Dell is Linux friendly. I'd double check if it
will run Linux though.  I think the new HP's will not.


Reason?


I think it has something to do with the bios.  I have a 4.5 year
old HP
laptop that runs Linux, however it is my understanding the new ones
will
not.

Are you talking about uefi? That shouldn't be a problem.


 I do not recall.  It has been about a year. I was going to buy an HP
laptop and either someone on the list told me it would not run Linux
or HP told me so.  I did not buy the laptop.



Last year when I bought a new Dell workstation. After telling

them I


        ..huge snip..

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Re: Cheap Dell Laptops

[Kevin Fries]

UEFI is not the problem. As a matter of fact,  it probably helps the Linux
enthusiasts break the Microsoft Monopoly better than anything I have seen
in a long time.

UEFI is designed such that there is one one boot secror.  Instead, it had
128 boot records and that number can be extended infinitely.   The standard
was also opened years ago... it was designed by Intel.

Microsoft not one to have their illegal monopoly threatened, came up with
another scheme to lock out open operating systems... security-related OS
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security-evaluated_operating_system.  In
this scheme, the vendor would only allow these secured, certified operating
systems to be installed.  You had a choice initially of one... Windows, but
you had only the choice of that one on the list.

Just remember, you may recognize many names on that list, but they are all
paid operating systems.  Because the cost of this certification is
expensive.  That's why you find Enterprise Red Hat, but not Fedora.

Well, the real joke is, most machines sold with Windows 8 have this Bios
feature turned on, but there is an option in the Bios to turn it off.  When
you are no longer limiter to certified OSes, you can install whatever you
like.

Now if HE were only as worried about making their customers happy as they
were making Microsoft happy, they would have told you that.

Kevin
On Jul 18, 2014 10:42 PM,  wrote:

> On 2014-07-18 19:49, Jerry Snitselaar wrote:
>
>> On Fri Jul 18 14, techli...@phpcoderusa.com wrote:
>>
>>> On 2014-07-18 14:19, Bob Holtzman wrote:
>>> >On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 11:52:05AM -0700, techli...@phpcoderusa.com
>>> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>From my experience Dell is Linux friendly. I'd double check if it
>>> >>will run Linux though.  I think the new HP's will not.
>>> >
>>> >Reason?
>>>
>>> I think it has something to do with the bios.  I have a 4.5 year old HP
>>> laptop that runs Linux, however it is my understanding the new ones will
>>> not.
>>>
>>
>> Are you talking about uefi? That shouldn't be a problem.
>>
>
>
> I do not recall.  It has been about a year. I was going to buy an HP
> laptop and either someone on the list told me it would not run Linux or HP
> told me so.  I did not buy the laptop.
>
>
>
>
>>
>>>
>>> >>
>>> >>Last year when I bought a new Dell workstation. After telling them I
>>> >
>>> > ..huge snip..
>>> >
>>> >---
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Re: Cheap Dell Laptops

[techlists]

On 2014-07-18 19:49, Jerry Snitselaar wrote:

On Fri Jul 18 14, techli...@phpcoderusa.com wrote:

On 2014-07-18 14:19, Bob Holtzman wrote:
>On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 11:52:05AM -0700, techli...@phpcoderusa.com wrote:
>>
>>From my experience Dell is Linux friendly. I'd double check if it
>>will run Linux though.  I think the new HP's will not.
>
>Reason?

I think it has something to do with the bios.  I have a 4.5 year old 
HP
laptop that runs Linux, however it is my understanding the new ones 
will

not.


Are you talking about uefi? That shouldn't be a problem.



I do not recall.  It has been about a year. I was going to buy an HP 
laptop and either someone on the list told me it would not run Linux or 
HP told me so.  I did not buy the laptop.









>>
>>Last year when I bought a new Dell workstation. After telling them I
>
> ..huge snip..
>
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Re: Cheap Dell Laptops

[Kevin Fries]

You are correct.  Most vendors that I have seen allow you to turn off the
"lockdown".

Essentially,  the question is if you can install an OS without the special
certification key.  If that "feature" is enabled in the bios, you can never
install an thing but Windows on that machine... the bios won't let you.
But if you can turn that off, you can install what ever you want.

Even my beloved Arch handles UFI cleanly now a days.

Kevin
On Jul 18, 2014 6:50 PM, "Todd Cole"  wrote:

> we the "installfest crew" have not seen any modern computers that will not
> run linux and only a few that have issues that are minor like power
> management issues. or if you find one please stop by the installfest so we
> can test/verify why what causing issues Todd
> windows 8 tablets are supposed to be locked down but i have not tested them
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 5:24 PM,  wrote:
>
>> On 2014-07-18 14:19, Bob Holtzman wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 11:52:05AM -0700, techli...@phpcoderusa.com
>>> wrote:
>>>

 From my experience Dell is Linux friendly. I'd double check if it
 will run Linux though.  I think the new HP's will not.

>>>
>>> Reason?
>>>
>>
>> I think it has something to do with the bios.  I have a 4.5 year old HP
>> laptop that runs Linux, however it is my understanding the new ones will
>> not.
>>
>>
>>
 Last year when I bought a new Dell workstation. After telling them I

>>>
>>>  ..huge snip..
>>>
>>> ---
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>
>
>
> --
> Todd Cole
> Ubuntu Arizona Team
> 4605 S PRIEST DR LOT 3
> TEMPE AZ  85282-6507
> to...@azloco.com
> 602-677-9402
>
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Re: Cheap Dell Laptops

[Todd Cole]

we the "installfest crew" have not seen any modern computers that will not
run linux and only a few that have issues that are minor like power
management issues. or if you find one please stop by the installfest so we
can test/verify why what causing issues Todd
windows 8 tablets are supposed to be locked down but i have not tested them


On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 5:24 PM,  wrote:

> On 2014-07-18 14:19, Bob Holtzman wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 11:52:05AM -0700, techli...@phpcoderusa.com
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> From my experience Dell is Linux friendly. I'd double check if it
>>> will run Linux though.  I think the new HP's will not.
>>>
>>
>> Reason?
>>
>
> I think it has something to do with the bios.  I have a 4.5 year old HP
> laptop that runs Linux, however it is my understanding the new ones will
> not.
>
>
>
>>> Last year when I bought a new Dell workstation. After telling them I
>>>
>>
>>  ..huge snip..
>>
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-- 
Todd Cole
Ubuntu Arizona Team
4605 S PRIEST DR LOT 3
TEMPE AZ  85282-6507
to...@azloco.com
602-677-9402
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Re: Cheap Dell Laptops

[Jerry Snitselaar]

On Fri Jul 18 14, techli...@phpcoderusa.com wrote:
> On 2014-07-18 14:19, Bob Holtzman wrote:
> >On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 11:52:05AM -0700, techli...@phpcoderusa.com wrote:
> >>
> >>From my experience Dell is Linux friendly. I'd double check if it
> >>will run Linux though.  I think the new HP's will not.
> >
> >Reason?
> 
> I think it has something to do with the bios.  I have a 4.5 year old HP
> laptop that runs Linux, however it is my understanding the new ones will
> not.

Are you talking about uefi? That shouldn't be a problem.

> 
> 
> >>
> >>Last year when I bought a new Dell workstation. After telling them I
> >
> > ..huge snip..
> >
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Re: Cheap Dell Laptops

[techlists]

On 2014-07-18 14:19, Bob Holtzman wrote:
On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 11:52:05AM -0700, techli...@phpcoderusa.com 
wrote:


From my experience Dell is Linux friendly. I'd double check if it
will run Linux though.  I think the new HP's will not.


Reason?


I think it has something to do with the bios.  I have a 4.5 year old HP 
laptop that runs Linux, however it is my understanding the new ones will 
not.





Last year when I bought a new Dell workstation. After telling them I


 ..huge snip..

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Re: Cheap Dell Laptops

[Bob Holtzman]

On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 11:52:05AM -0700, techli...@phpcoderusa.com wrote:
> 
> From my experience Dell is Linux friendly. I'd double check if it
> will run Linux though.  I think the new HP's will not.

Reason?
> 
> Last year when I bought a new Dell workstation. After telling them I

 ..huge snip..

-- 
Bob Holtzman
A man is a man who will fight with a sword
or tackle Mt Everest in snow, but the bravest 
of all owns a '34 Ford and tries for 6000 in low.


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Re: Cheap Dell Laptops

[techlists]

From my experience Dell is Linux friendly. I'd double check if it will 
run Linux though.  I think the new HP's will not.


Last year when I bought a new Dell workstation. After telling them I was 
going to install Linux, Dell sent me a Win 8 disk so I could go back to 
Win if I wanted to. And the disk was free.



On 2014-07-18 11:38, Jim March wrote:

You should be able to get Linux running on that thing.  You may be
forced to stick with a major distro that knows how to deal with the
new BIOS-ish situation, as opposed to something extremely
"hipster"...but you're not stuck with Win8.x.

Jim

On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 1:31 PM, Kevin Fries 
wrote:


Yea but it runs Windows 8, the worst OS since ME.

The Chrome book will save you in usability feature, plus not having
to buy an office siite, and an antivirus, etc.

I'd go with the chromebook.

But that's me.

Kevin

On Jul 18, 2014 11:51 AM,  wrote:

Thanks for your feedback!!  The price point is very good!!  If
the performance is there then it would be a steal.

On 2014-07-18 10:09, Jim March wrote:
If we check the CPU specs:



http://ark.intel.com/products/81071/Intel-Celeron-Processor-N2830-1M-Cache-up-to-2_41-GHz

[1]
[3]

...we see that surpprisingly, it HAS the Intel "VTx" hardware
virtualization
extension.  That means getting a virtual machine running on it for
at
least basic stuff will work at reasonable speeds.

If we got to the CPUBench site we see it has a "performance score"
of
just under 1,000 which...is...bad-ish but not terrible like some of
the Atom crap.

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/midlow_range_cpus.html [2] [4]

Upshot: you could do real work with that puppy, with a modern Linux
distro and even light virtualization (running a copy of WinXP or
another distro as a VM on it).

Jim

On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 10:02 AM, 
wrote:

Better than a Chromebook?



http://www.dell.com/us/p/inspiron-15-3531-laptop/pd?oc=fndoc3001b&model_id=inspiron-15-3531-laptop

[3]
[1]
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[1]


http://www.dell.com/us/p/inspiron-15-3531-laptop/pd?oc=fndoc3001b&model_id=inspiron-15-3531-laptop

[3]
[2] http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss [4]
[3]


http://ark.intel.com/products/81071/Intel-Celeron-Processor-N2830-1M-Cache-up-to-2_41-GHz

[1]
[4] http://www.cpubenchmark.net/midlow_range_cpus.html [2]

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[2] http://www.cpubenchmark.net/midlow_range_cpus.html
[3]
http://www.dell.com/us/p/inspiron-15-3531-laptop/pd?oc=fndoc3001b&model_id=inspiron-15-3531-laptop
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Re: Cheap Dell Laptops

[Jim March]

You should be able to get Linux running on that thing.  You may be forced
to stick with a major distro that knows how to deal with the new BIOS-ish
situation, as opposed to something extremely "hipster"...but you're not
stuck with Win8.x.

Jim



On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 1:31 PM, Kevin Fries  wrote:

> Yea but it runs Windows 8, the worst OS since ME.
>
> The Chrome book will save you in usability feature, plus not having to buy
> an office siite, and an antivirus, etc.
>
> I'd go with the chromebook.
>
> But that's me.
>
> Kevin
> On Jul 18, 2014 11:51 AM,  wrote:
>
>>
>> Thanks for your feedback!!  The price point is very good!!  If the
>> performance is there then it would be a steal.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2014-07-18 10:09, Jim March wrote:
>>
>>> If we check the CPU specs:
>>>
>>> http://ark.intel.com/products/81071/Intel-Celeron-Processor-
>>> N2830-1M-Cache-up-to-2_41-GHz
>>> [3]
>>>
>>> ...we see that surpprisingly, it HAS the Intel "VTx" hardware
>>> virtualization
>>> extension.  That means getting a virtual machine running on it for at
>>> least basic stuff will work at reasonable speeds.
>>>
>>> If we got to the CPUBench site we see it has a "performance score" of
>>> just under 1,000 which...is...bad-ish but not terrible like some of
>>> the Atom crap.
>>>
>>> http://www.cpubenchmark.net/midlow_range_cpus.html [4]
>>>
>>> Upshot: you could do real work with that puppy, with a modern Linux
>>> distro and even light virtualization (running a copy of WinXP or
>>> another distro as a VM on it).
>>>
>>> Jim
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 10:02 AM,  wrote:
>>>
>>>  Better than a Chromebook?


  http://www.dell.com/us/p/inspiron-15-3531-laptop/pd?oc=
>>> fndoc3001b&model_id=inspiron-15-3531-laptop
>>>
 [1]
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Links:
>>> --
>>> [1]
>>> http://www.dell.com/us/p/inspiron-15-3531-laptop/pd?oc=
>>> fndoc3001b&model_id=inspiron-15-3531-laptop
>>> 
>>> [2] http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>>> [3]
>>> http://ark.intel.com/products/81071/Intel-Celeron-Processor-
>>> N2830-1M-Cache-up-to-2_41-GHz
>>> [4] http://www.cpubenchmark.net/midlow_range_cpus.html
>>>
>>> ---
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>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>>> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>>>
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Re: Cheap Dell Laptops

[Kevin Fries]

Yea but it runs Windows 8, the worst OS since ME.

The Chrome book will save you in usability feature, plus not having to buy
an office siite, and an antivirus, etc.

I'd go with the chromebook.

But that's me.

Kevin
On Jul 18, 2014 11:51 AM,  wrote:

>
> Thanks for your feedback!!  The price point is very good!!  If the
> performance is there then it would be a steal.
>
>
>
> On 2014-07-18 10:09, Jim March wrote:
>
>> If we check the CPU specs:
>>
>> http://ark.intel.com/products/81071/Intel-Celeron-Processor-
>> N2830-1M-Cache-up-to-2_41-GHz
>> [3]
>>
>> ...we see that surpprisingly, it HAS the Intel "VTx" hardware
>> virtualization
>> extension.  That means getting a virtual machine running on it for at
>> least basic stuff will work at reasonable speeds.
>>
>> If we got to the CPUBench site we see it has a "performance score" of
>> just under 1,000 which...is...bad-ish but not terrible like some of
>> the Atom crap.
>>
>> http://www.cpubenchmark.net/midlow_range_cpus.html [4]
>>
>> Upshot: you could do real work with that puppy, with a modern Linux
>> distro and even light virtualization (running a copy of WinXP or
>> another distro as a VM on it).
>>
>> Jim
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 10:02 AM,  wrote:
>>
>>  Better than a Chromebook?
>>>
>>>
>>>  http://www.dell.com/us/p/inspiron-15-3531-laptop/pd?oc=
>> fndoc3001b&model_id=inspiron-15-3531-laptop
>>
>>> [1]
>>> ---
>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org
>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>>> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss [2]
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Links:
>> --
>> [1]
>> http://www.dell.com/us/p/inspiron-15-3531-laptop/pd?oc=
>> fndoc3001b&model_id=inspiron-15-3531-laptop
>> 
>> [2] http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>> [3]
>> http://ark.intel.com/products/81071/Intel-Celeron-Processor-
>> N2830-1M-Cache-up-to-2_41-GHz
>> [4] http://www.cpubenchmark.net/midlow_range_cpus.html
>>
>> ---
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>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
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>>
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Re: Cheap Dell Laptops

[techlists]

Thanks for your feedback!!  The price point is very good!!  If the 
performance is there then it would be a steal.




On 2014-07-18 10:09, Jim March wrote:

If we check the CPU specs:

http://ark.intel.com/products/81071/Intel-Celeron-Processor-N2830-1M-Cache-up-to-2_41-GHz
[3]

...we see that surpprisingly, it HAS the Intel "VTx" hardware
virtualization
extension.  That means getting a virtual machine running on it for at
least basic stuff will work at reasonable speeds.

If we got to the CPUBench site we see it has a "performance score" of
just under 1,000 which...is...bad-ish but not terrible like some of
the Atom crap.

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/midlow_range_cpus.html [4]

Upshot: you could do real work with that puppy, with a modern Linux
distro and even light virtualization (running a copy of WinXP or
another distro as a VM on it).

Jim

On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 10:02 AM,  wrote:


Better than a Chromebook?



http://www.dell.com/us/p/inspiron-15-3531-laptop/pd?oc=fndoc3001b&model_id=inspiron-15-3531-laptop

[1]
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Links:
--
[1]
http://www.dell.com/us/p/inspiron-15-3531-laptop/pd?oc=fndoc3001b&model_id=inspiron-15-3531-laptop
[2] http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
[3]
http://ark.intel.com/products/81071/Intel-Celeron-Processor-N2830-1M-Cache-up-to-2_41-GHz
[4] http://www.cpubenchmark.net/midlow_range_cpus.html

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Re: Cheap Dell Laptops

[Matt Graham]

On 2014-07-18 10:09, Jim March wrote:
...we see that surpprisingly, it HAS the Intel "VTx" hardware 
virtualization

Upshot: you could do real work with that puppy, with a modern Linux
distro and even light virtualization


The price is pretty good.  I'd like to see some manufacturers offer 
screens that are taller than 768 pixels without an insane price premium. 
And for someone other than IBM/Lenovo to offer machines with 
trackpoints.  I'm sure these things won't happen.


(No wired Ethernet, no trackpoint, and no DVD-R* drive would mean I 
wouldn't ever buy a machine like this, though.)


--
Crow202 Blog: http://crow202.org/wordpress
There is no Darkness in Eternity
But only Light too dim for us to see.
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Re: Cheap Dell Laptops

[Jim March]

If we check the CPU specs:

http://ark.intel.com/products/81071/Intel-Celeron-Processor-N2830-1M-Cache-up-to-2_41-GHz

...we see that surpprisingly, it HAS the Intel "VTx" hardware
virtualization
extension.  That means getting a virtual machine running on it for at least
basic stuff will work at reasonable speeds.

If we got to the CPUBench site we see it has a "performance score" of just
under 1,000 which...is...bad-ish but not terrible like some of the Atom
crap.

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/midlow_range_cpus.html

Upshot: you could do real work with that puppy, with a modern Linux distro
and even light virtualization (running a copy of WinXP or another distro as
a VM on it).

Jim



On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 10:02 AM,  wrote:

>
> Better than a Chromebook?
>
> http://www.dell.com/us/p/inspiron-15-3531-laptop/pd?oc=
> fndoc3001b&model_id=inspiron-15-3531-laptop
> ---
> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>
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