Re: GNOME or KDE?

[Steve Litt via PLUG-discuss]

I can give a 10 to 15 minute presentation showing off my no-frills
Openbox workflow setup.

SteveT


Samuel Stavole-Carter via PLUG-discuss said on Wed, 23 Mar 2022
15:40:51 -0700

>Seems to me like this thread could be a good topic for a presentation
>for one of the PLUG sessions if anyone feels inspired. :)
>
>On Wed, Mar 23, 2022 at 3:16 PM Matt Graham via PLUG-discuss <
>plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:
>
>> On 2022-03-23 08:49, Stephen Partington via PLUG-discuss wrote:  
>> > On Wed, Mar 23, 2022 at 10:45 AM Brian Cluff wrote:  
>> >> Strictly speaking, yes you can install KDE and GNOME at the
>> >> same time, but it can lead to the 2 desktops fighting for
>> >> which desktop gets to handle settings on the other and which
>> >> programs are the default as well as other quirks  
>>
>> This seems like it shouldn't happen.  However, I really can't speak
>> from personal experience here since I have said "Gnope!" to GNOME
>> since it went systemd-required.
>>  
>> > This is very true, I have found if both are installed SDM handles
>> > this better than LightDM and GDM (Personal experience only)  
>>
>> Did you mean sddm?  That is in x11-misc here, not part of KDE or
>> GNOME, though it does depend on Qt and it's the default DM for KDE.
>> It has a set of text config files in /usr/share/xsession/ that
>> determine what gets executed.  I currently have
>> /etc/X11/Sessions/Xsession and /usr/bin/startplasma-x11 as available
>> "what gets run after successful login" options.
>>
>> --
>> Crow202 Blog: http://crow202.org/wordpress
>> There is no Darkness in Eternity
>> But only Light too dim for us to see.
>> ---
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Re: GNOME or KDE?

[Michael via PLUG-discuss]

truly. mine doesn't have minimal overlapping but the one it does use
(cursor)should be good enough (if I can remember what I set). lol

On Fri, Mar 25, 2022 at 2:07 PM Jim via PLUG-discuss <
plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:

> Thanks for ending years of frustration.
>
> On 3/24/22 15:10, Matt Graham via PLUG-discuss wrote:
> > Settings->Window Management->Window Behavior->Advanced.  You may want
> > a window placement of "minimal overlapping".  That means a new
> > application will show up in the place that has the least amount of
> > stuff in it.  Or maybe "centered" if you want all applications to show
> > up in one place when you launch them.  Try the various options, see
> > which one works best?
> >
> > Also "allow KDE apps to remember the positions of their own windows"
> > will probably help the KDE things remember where they're supposed to
> > be. I could potentially have the TV as a second monitor here, but
> > "mirror monitor to the TV" is a lot more practical AFAICT.
> >
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Re: GNOME or KDE?

[Jim via PLUG-discuss]

Thanks for ending years of frustration.

On 3/24/22 15:10, Matt Graham via PLUG-discuss wrote:
Settings->Window Management->Window Behavior->Advanced.  You may want 
a window placement of "minimal overlapping".  That means a new 
application will show up in the place that has the least amount of 
stuff in it.  Or maybe "centered" if you want all applications to show 
up in one place when you launch them.  Try the various options, see 
which one works best?


Also "allow KDE apps to remember the positions of their own windows" 
will probably help the KDE things remember where they're supposed to 
be. I could potentially have the TV as a second monitor here, but 
"mirror monitor to the TV" is a lot more practical AFAICT.



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Re: GNOME or KDE?

[Jim via PLUG-discuss]

Many times I've gone online to find out how to configure something.  
I'll open a link and read somebody asking for help with an issue similar 
to the one I have.  It seems like the first 47 comments are people 
saying not to do that and explaining how they think it's a bad idea.  
Finally, somebody answers the question that original poster asked.


On 3/24/22 18:14, Michael Butash via PLUG-discuss wrote:
>> I never know on which monitor an application will launch in after I 
start it.


Funny, this is one of my biggest complaints about KDE since the 4.x 
days.  I use a thunderbolt dock for my 2 external displays, and 
occasionally will lose power or accidentally wiggle the laptop too 
much, power down the displays, or just want to save on power/heat to 
power off myself, all hell breaks loose.  Often once they come back 
up, it'll do some random combination of one or all of 1) reverse the 
order of the displays, 2) reset all settings of my displays (like 
resolution/hz), 3) jumble every damn window of mine to random places, 
4) move everything to one display only, and 5) resize all my windows 
only on my 3rd display only to be 1px wide. This is a 4k monitor with 
not very thick window borders to begin with to do so!


Freakin' maddening, particularly #5 makes me want 5 finger death punch 
my display when I have to manually resize a few dozen windows on it!  
Even worse about #5 above, once I resize the window, if I try to move 
the window vs. resize it, it snaps like a rubberband to be 1px wide 
again.  What the hell would you even begin with to troubleshoot 
*that*?.  Is it kde base, kwin, video drivers/card, hdmi vs. 
displayport, mesa, or xorg?  They all blame each other, or me for 
being fancy with my hardware, so I gave up trying.


Trying to describe these to resolve in a bugtracker only nets me 
somewhere between a confused wtf sort of answer or "ohh, mr fancy with 
3x 4k displays, none of us have that to test with, sorry not sorry".  
It's like that Dave Chappelle episode teaching customer service at the 
printers, "If the customer says they have windows, tell them you only 
know mac.  If they say they have mac, tell them you only know 
windows.  If they say they have windows and mac, tell them you only 
know linux!"


I've tried gnome shell (hate it), cinnamon (tolerate it, has it's own 
display issues), mate (like it, but missing functionality I'm used to 
in Cinnamon and/or KDE), and unity (hated it, thankfully rip), still 
come back to KDE even with maddening persistent multi-monitor flaws 
for well over a decade now.  I've tried xfce, i3, some others, but 
just never "got it".  I am not a developer and understand why they 
prefer the tiling - I just don't work that way 98% of the time.  I 
move windows lots, and keep a lot of apps open buried in layers, 
calling them forth from my dock as needed, for that KDE + Cairo-Dock 
work great, so long as I keep the displays powered up 24/7.


-mb



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Re: GNOME or KDE?

[Jim via PLUG-discuss]

Thanks.  I'll try these options today.

On 3/24/22 15:10, Matt Graham via PLUG-discuss wrote:

On 2022-03-24 14:40, Jim via PLUG-discuss wrote:

I have Kubuntu installed on my machine.  I like it but the only thing
that bugs me about KDE is that I have 2 monitors on this machine and I
never know on which monitor an application will launch in after I
start it.


Settings->Window Management->Window Behavior->Advanced. You may want a 
window placement of "minimal overlapping".  That means a new 
application will show up in the place that has the least amount of 
stuff in it.  Or maybe "centered" if you want all applications to show 
up in one place when you launch them.  Try the various options, see 
which one works best?


Also "allow KDE apps to remember the positions of their own windows" 
will probably help the KDE things remember where they're supposed to 
be. I could potentially have the TV as a second monitor here, but 
"mirror monitor to the TV" is a lot more practical AFAICT.



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Re: GNOME or KDE?

[Keith Smith via PLUG-discuss]

Heartbreaking story Michael!!

Lots of good feedback.  To the person offering to teach me a workflow if 
I touch type, thank you very much.  I have been trying to convert to 
touch typing I am close but type extremely slow when touch typing.  
I hunt and peck most of the time.


Since I really like Ubuntu for LAMP servers I'm thinking I might jump 
back into Linux on my desktop by starting with Kubuntu.  I tried Kubuntu 
probably 6 years ago or longer and did not like it that much.  I figure 
that is a good place to start.


Thanks for all the feedback!!






On 2022-03-24 18:14, Michael Butash via PLUG-discuss wrote:

I never know on which monitor an application will launch in after I

start it.

Funny, this is one of my biggest complaints about KDE since the 4.x
days.  I use a thunderbolt dock for my 2 external displays, and
occasionally will lose power or accidentally wiggle the laptop too
much, power down the displays, or just want to save on power/heat to
power off myself, all hell breaks loose.  Often once they come back
up, it'll do some random combination of one or all of 1) reverse the
order of the displays, 2) reset all settings of my displays (like
resolution/hz), 3) jumble every damn window of mine to random places,
4) move everything to one display only, and 5) resize all my windows
only on my 3rd display only to be 1px wide.  This is a 4k monitor with
not very thick window borders to begin with to do so!

Freakin' maddening, particularly #5 makes me want 5 finger death punch
my display when I have to manually resize a few dozen windows on it!
Even worse about #5 above, once I resize the window, if I try to move
the window vs. resize it, it snaps like a rubberband to be 1px wide
again.  What the hell would you even begin with to troubleshoot
*that*?.  Is it kde base, kwin, video drivers/card, hdmi vs.
displayport, mesa, or xorg?  They all blame each other, or me for
being fancy with my hardware, so I gave up trying.

Trying to describe these to resolve in a bugtracker only nets me
somewhere between a confused wtf sort of answer or "ohh, mr fancy with
3x 4k displays, none of us have that to test with, sorry not sorry".
It's like that Dave Chappelle episode teaching customer service at the
printers, "If the customer says they have windows, tell them you only
know mac.  If they say they have mac, tell them you only know windows.
 If they say they have windows and mac, tell them you only know
linux!"

I've tried gnome shell (hate it), cinnamon (tolerate it, has it's own
display issues), mate (like it, but missing functionality I'm used to
in Cinnamon and/or KDE), and unity (hated it, thankfully rip), still
come back to KDE even with maddening persistent multi-monitor flaws
for well over a decade now.  I've tried xfce, i3, some others, but
just never "got it".  I am not a developer and understand why they
prefer the tiling - I just don't work that way 98% of the time.  I
move windows lots, and keep a lot of apps open buried in layers,
calling them forth from my dock as needed, for that KDE + Cairo-Dock
work great, so long as I keep the displays powered up 24/7.

-mb

On Thu, Mar 24, 2022 at 2:40 PM Jim via PLUG-discuss
 wrote:


I have Kubuntu installed on my machine.  I like it but the only
thing
that bugs me about KDE is that I have 2 monitors on this machine and
I
never know on which monitor an application will launch in after I
start it.

On 3/22/22 15:23, Keith Smith via PLUG-discuss wrote:

In the past there has been some discussion about which is better

GNOME

or KDE?  I like Mint and I see it offers MATE (a fork of GNOME 2)

or

Cinnamon (a fork of GNOME 3).  It has been years and I think I
selected Cinnamon for my desktop.

Does it matter?

I tried Ubuntu and I did not like it for my workstation.  However

for

servers I only want Ubuntu.

Thanks!!

PS I'm on a mission and might have dozens of questions.  Thank you

in

advance!!


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Re: GNOME or KDE?

[Michael Butash via PLUG-discuss]

>> I never know on which monitor an application will launch in after I
start it.

Funny, this is one of my biggest complaints about KDE since the 4.x days.
I use a thunderbolt dock for my 2 external displays, and occasionally will
lose power or accidentally wiggle the laptop too much, power down the
displays, or just want to save on power/heat to power off myself, all hell
breaks loose.  Often once they come back up, it'll do some random
combination of one or all of 1) reverse the order of the displays, 2) reset
all settings of my displays (like resolution/hz), 3) jumble every damn
window of mine to random places, 4) move everything to one display only,
and 5) resize all my windows only on my 3rd display only to be 1px wide.
This is a 4k monitor with not very thick window borders to begin with to do
so!

Freakin' maddening, particularly #5 makes me want 5 finger death punch my
display when I have to manually resize a few dozen windows on it!  Even
worse about #5 above, once I resize the window, if I try to move the window
vs. resize it, it snaps like a rubberband to be 1px wide again.  What the
hell would you even begin with to troubleshoot *that*?.  Is it kde base,
kwin, video drivers/card, hdmi vs. displayport, mesa, or xorg?  They all
blame each other, or me for being fancy with my hardware, so I gave up
trying.

Trying to describe these to resolve in a bugtracker only nets me somewhere
between a confused wtf sort of answer or "ohh, mr fancy with 3x 4k
displays, none of us have that to test with, sorry not sorry".  It's like
that Dave Chappelle episode teaching customer service at the printers, "If
the customer says they have windows, tell them you only know mac.  If they
say they have mac, tell them you only know windows.  If they say they have
windows and mac, tell them you only know linux!"

I've tried gnome shell (hate it), cinnamon (tolerate it, has it's own
display issues), mate (like it, but missing functionality I'm used to in
Cinnamon and/or KDE), and unity (hated it, thankfully rip), still come back
to KDE even with maddening persistent multi-monitor flaws for well over a
decade now.  I've tried xfce, i3, some others, but just never "got it".  I
am not a developer and understand why they prefer the tiling - I just don't
work that way 98% of the time.  I move windows lots, and keep a lot of apps
open buried in layers, calling them forth from my dock as needed, for that
KDE + Cairo-Dock work great, so long as I keep the displays powered up 24/7.

-mb


On Thu, Mar 24, 2022 at 2:40 PM Jim via PLUG-discuss <
plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:

> I have Kubuntu installed on my machine.  I like it but the only thing
> that bugs me about KDE is that I have 2 monitors on this machine and I
> never know on which monitor an application will launch in after I start it.
>
> On 3/22/22 15:23, Keith Smith via PLUG-discuss wrote:
> > In the past there has been some discussion about which is better GNOME
> > or KDE?  I like Mint and I see it offers MATE (a fork of GNOME 2) or
> > Cinnamon (a fork of GNOME 3).  It has been years and I think I
> > selected Cinnamon for my desktop.
> >
> > Does it matter?
> >
> > I tried Ubuntu and I did not like it for my workstation.  However for
> > servers I only want Ubuntu.
> >
> > Thanks!!
> >
> > PS I'm on a mission and might have dozens of questions.  Thank you in
> > advance!!
> >
> >
> > ---
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> > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
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Re: GNOME or KDE?

[Matt Graham via PLUG-discuss]

On 2022-03-24 14:40, Jim via PLUG-discuss wrote:

I have Kubuntu installed on my machine.  I like it but the only thing
that bugs me about KDE is that I have 2 monitors on this machine and I
never know on which monitor an application will launch in after I
start it.


Settings->Window Management->Window Behavior->Advanced.  You may want a 
window placement of "minimal overlapping".  That means a new application 
will show up in the place that has the least amount of stuff in it.  Or 
maybe "centered" if you want all applications to show up in one place 
when you launch them.  Try the various options, see which one works 
best?


Also "allow KDE apps to remember the positions of their own windows" 
will probably help the KDE things remember where they're supposed to be. 
I could potentially have the TV as a second monitor here, but "mirror 
monitor to the TV" is a lot more practical AFAICT.


--
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There is no Darkness in Eternity
But only Light too dim for us to see.
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Re: GNOME or KDE?

[Matthew Crews via PLUG-discuss]

On 3/22/22 15:23, Keith Smith via PLUG-discuss wrote:
In the past there has been some discussion about which is better GNOME 
or KDE?  I like Mint and I see it offers MATE (a fork of GNOME 2) or 
Cinnamon (a fork of GNOME 3).  It has been years and I think I selected 
Cinnamon for my desktop.


Does it matter?

I tried Ubuntu and I did not like it for my workstation.  However for 
servers I only want Ubuntu.


Thanks!!

PS I'm on a mission and might have dozens of questions.  Thank you in 
advance!!




I use Fedora Workstation which has GNOME by default.

Modern GNOME (anything thats GNOME 40 or newer) is quite good, but you 
need to either get used to the GNOME workflow, or depend on extensions 
to make it how you want.


Fedora has perhaps the most vanilla GNOME implementation of them all. 
Most other distros do some kind of customization, whether its theme, or 
something else entirely (ie the Ubuntus and derivatives).


If you want something that is more along the lines of Windows and its 
UI, you probably want to use KDE Plasma instead.


-Mactt
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Re: GNOME or KDE?

[Samuel Stavole-Carter via PLUG-discuss]

Seems to me like this thread could be a good topic for a presentation for
one of the PLUG sessions if anyone feels inspired. :)

On Wed, Mar 23, 2022 at 3:16 PM Matt Graham via PLUG-discuss <
plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:

> On 2022-03-23 08:49, Stephen Partington via PLUG-discuss wrote:
> > On Wed, Mar 23, 2022 at 10:45 AM Brian Cluff wrote:
> >> Strictly speaking, yes you can install KDE and GNOME at the
> >> same time, but it can lead to the 2 desktops fighting for
> >> which desktop gets to handle settings on the other and which
> >> programs are the default as well as other quirks
>
> This seems like it shouldn't happen.  However, I really can't speak
> from personal experience here since I have said "Gnope!" to GNOME since
> it went systemd-required.
>
> > This is very true, I have found if both are installed SDM handles
> > this better than LightDM and GDM (Personal experience only)
>
> Did you mean sddm?  That is in x11-misc here, not part of KDE or GNOME,
> though it does depend on Qt and it's the default DM for KDE.  It has a
> set of text config files in /usr/share/xsession/ that determine what
> gets executed.  I currently have /etc/X11/Sessions/Xsession and
> /usr/bin/startplasma-x11 as available "what gets run after successful
> login" options.
>
> --
> Crow202 Blog: http://crow202.org/wordpress
> There is no Darkness in Eternity
> But only Light too dim for us to see.
> ---
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Re: GNOME or KDE?

[Matt Graham via PLUG-discuss]

On 2022-03-23 08:49, Stephen Partington via PLUG-discuss wrote:

On Wed, Mar 23, 2022 at 10:45 AM Brian Cluff wrote:

Strictly speaking, yes you can install KDE and GNOME at the
same time, but it can lead to the 2 desktops fighting for
which desktop gets to handle settings on the other and which
programs are the default as well as other quirks


This seems like it shouldn't happen.  However, I really can't speak 
from personal experience here since I have said "Gnope!" to GNOME since 
it went systemd-required.



This is very true, I have found if both are installed SDM handles
this better than LightDM and GDM (Personal experience only)


Did you mean sddm?  That is in x11-misc here, not part of KDE or GNOME, 
though it does depend on Qt and it's the default DM for KDE.  It has a 
set of text config files in /usr/share/xsession/ that determine what 
gets executed.  I currently have /etc/X11/Sessions/Xsession and 
/usr/bin/startplasma-x11 as available "what gets run after successful 
login" options.


--
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Re: GNOME or KDE?

[Steve Litt via PLUG-discuss]

Snyder, Alexander J said on Wed, 23 Mar 2022 07:08:48 -0700

>You mentioned using openbox, then I saw this ...
>
>https://www.debugpoint.com/2022/03/mabox-linux-2022/
>
>I think I'll spin up a VM and check out out!
>
>Thanks,
>Alexander

Looks great. It has the eye candy some folks like, without needing to
do any config to get it. I wish it didn't init with systemd, but I
guess you can't have everything. Please let us know how it works out
for you.

SteveT

Steve Litt 
March 2022 featured book: Making Mental Models: Advanced Edition
http://www.troubleshooters.com/mmm
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Re: GNOME or KDE?

[Joe Neglia via PLUG-discuss]

Glad to see some love for LXDE.  Been using it for many years now.  It is
simple and small.  Would be interested in hearing more about your "keyboard
centric workflow" for LXDE.  I'm using xmodmap to emulate the beloved and
venerable WordStar keyboard diamond to minimize mouse usage, but am curious
what you are using.
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Re: GNOME or KDE?

[Stephen Partington via PLUG-discuss]

This is very true, I have found if both are installed SDM handles this
better than LightDM and GDM (Personal experience only)

On Wed, Mar 23, 2022 at 10:45 AM Brian Cluff via PLUG-discuss <
plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:

> On 3/22/22 16:20, AZ Pete via PLUG-discuss wrote:
>
> I was thinking of trying KDE, but do I have to re-install a new Kubuntu
> O/S to have KDE or is there a way to install the KDE desktop on my Ubuntu
> 20.04 (Gnome) desktop?
>
>
> Strictly speaking, yes you can install KDE and GNOME at the same time, but
> it can lead to the 2 desktops fighting for which desktop gets to handle
> settings on the other and which programs are the default as well as other
> quirks which can lead to a strange and sub-optimal desktop experience.
> You could also tell the system to completely uninstall GNOME, but by the
> time you got it completely removed you would find it faster to just put a
> fresh install of Kubuntu on your system.
>
> If I were you I would just  backup my home directory and do a fresh
> install.
>
> In the past the (k)ubuntu installer would preserve your home directory
> when it detected you were installing a system over an existing install.  I
> don't know if that's still true, but if it is, it would make it an
> extremely fast switch... but make sure you backup your home just in case it
> doesn't work anymore.
>
> Brian Cluff
>
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-- 
A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you from
rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button.

Stephen
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Re: GNOME or KDE?

[Brian Cluff via PLUG-discuss]

On 3/22/22 16:20, AZ Pete via PLUG-discuss wrote:
I was thinking of trying KDE, but do I have to re-install a new 
Kubuntu O/S to have KDE or is there a way to install the KDE desktop 
on my Ubuntu 20.04 (Gnome) desktop?


Strictly speaking, yes you can install KDE and GNOME at the same time, 
but it can lead to the 2 desktops fighting for which desktop gets to 
handle settings on the other and which programs are the default as well 
as other quirks which can lead to a strange and sub-optimal desktop 
experience.
You could also tell the system to completely uninstall GNOME, but by the 
time you got it completely removed you would find it faster to just put 
a fresh install of Kubuntu on your system.


If I were you I would just  backup my home directory and do a fresh install.

In the past the (k)ubuntu installer would preserve your home directory 
when it detected you were installing a system over an existing install.  
I don't know if that's still true, but if it is, it would make it an 
extremely fast switch... but make sure you backup your home just in case 
it doesn't work anymore.


Brian Cluff
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Re: GNOME or KDE?

[Snyder, Alexander J via PLUG-discuss]

You mentioned using openbox, then I saw this ...

https://www.debugpoint.com/2022/03/mabox-linux-2022/

I think I'll spin up a VM and check out out!

Thanks,
Alexander

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S22+

On Wed, Mar 23, 2022, 02:41 Steve Litt via PLUG-discuss <
plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:

> Keith Smith via PLUG-discuss said on Tue, 22 Mar 2022 15:23:29 -0700
>
> >In the past there has been some discussion about which is better GNOME
> >or KDE?  I like Mint and I see it offers MATE (a fork of GNOME 2) or
> >Cinnamon (a fork of GNOME 3).  It has been years and I think I
> >selected Cinnamon for my desktop.
>
> I wouldn't be caught dead with either Gnome or KDE. There are over ten
> excellent WM/DEs (Window Manager/Desktop Environment), but those don't
> include Gnome and KDE, and Xfce is starting to get close to being bad.
>
> If you want snappy performance and a nice, sane user interface, choose
> LXDE. If you're a touch typist, I can work with you to develop a
> lightning fast keyboard-centric workflow based on LXDE. I could do that
> with most other WM/DEs too.
>
> I use Openbox personally, but if you've been doing widows for 5 years,
> best to start with something a little more discoverable, like LXDE.
>
> If your distro doesn't have LXDE, LXQt, from the same crew who brought
> you LXDE, is almost as good.
>
> SteveT
>
> Steve Litt
> March 2022 featured book: Making Mental Models: Advanced Edition
> http://www.troubleshooters.com/mmm
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Re: GNOME or KDE?

[Steve Litt via PLUG-discuss]

AZ Pete via PLUG-discuss said on Tue, 22 Mar 2022 16:20:29 -0700

>All,
>
>I have been using Ubuntu as one of my desktops for a while, but have
>always been irritated by how difficult it is to do customize things. I
>was thinking of trying KDE, but do I have to re-install a new Kubuntu
>O/S to have KDE or is there a way to install the KDE desktop on my
>Ubuntu 20.04 (Gnome) desktop?
>
>Thanks
>Peter

Depending on how you want to customize things, there might be better
alternatives than either KDE or the Ubuntu default. KDE and Gnome3 are
resource wasting pigs.

SteveT

Steve Litt 
March 2022 featured book: Making Mental Models: Advanced Edition
http://www.troubleshooters.com/mmm
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Re: GNOME or KDE?

[Steve Litt via PLUG-discuss]

Keith Smith via PLUG-discuss said on Tue, 22 Mar 2022 15:23:29 -0700

>In the past there has been some discussion about which is better GNOME 
>or KDE?  I like Mint and I see it offers MATE (a fork of GNOME 2) or 
>Cinnamon (a fork of GNOME 3).  It has been years and I think I
>selected Cinnamon for my desktop.

I wouldn't be caught dead with either Gnome or KDE. There are over ten
excellent WM/DEs (Window Manager/Desktop Environment), but those don't
include Gnome and KDE, and Xfce is starting to get close to being bad.

If you want snappy performance and a nice, sane user interface, choose
LXDE. If you're a touch typist, I can work with you to develop a
lightning fast keyboard-centric workflow based on LXDE. I could do that
with most other WM/DEs too.

I use Openbox personally, but if you've been doing widows for 5 years,
best to start with something a little more discoverable, like LXDE.

If your distro doesn't have LXDE, LXQt, from the same crew who brought
you LXDE, is almost as good.

SteveT

Steve Litt 
March 2022 featured book: Making Mental Models: Advanced Edition
http://www.troubleshooters.com/mmm
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Re: GNOME or KDE?

[Keith Smith via PLUG-discuss]

Is the difference, for the most part, eye candy?


On 2022-03-22 17:37, JD Austin via PLUG-discuss wrote:

You can just install the new window manager to try it out and select
it when you login.  Typically you can use a small gear icon to switch
the window manager on the login page before pressing enter or clicking
the button to login. My Fedora desktop has KDE Plasma, Gnome, Mint,
and Cinnamon, of which Gnome is my least favorite. It seems designed
for a touch screen or tablet. You can run KDE/Gnome apps on Mint,
Cinnamon, etc if it's installed even if you're not running it.
JD

--

J.D AUSTIN
TWIN GECKOS TECHNOLOGY SERVICES LLC
Open Technology Specialist

P.O. Box 2487 Apache Junction, Az 85117
Web: www.twingeckos.com [1]
 Work: 480-269-4335 [2] x10004
 Fax: 480-907-1433 [3]
 Cell: 480-288-8195 [4]

On Tue, Mar 22, 2022 at 5:27 PM Snyder, Alexander J via PLUG-discuss
 wrote:


No, kubuntu is (or was) a thing. You should be able to strip your
gui (desktop manager) out, leaving you at a terminal prompt. Then
you should be able to install KDE.

Thanks,
Alexander

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S22+

On Tue, Mar 22, 2022, 16:44 AZ Pete via PLUG-discuss
 wrote:

All,

I have been using Ubuntu as one of my desktops for a while, but have
always been irritated by how difficult it is to do customize things.
I was thinking of trying KDE, but do I have to re-install a new
Kubuntu O/S to have KDE or is there a way to install the KDE desktop
on my Ubuntu 20.04 (Gnome) desktop?

Thanks
Peter

On 3/22/2022 3:44 PM, Matt Graham via PLUG-discuss wrote:
On 2022-03-22 15:23, Keith Smith via PLUG-discuss wrote:
In the past there has been some discussion about which is better
GNOME or KDE?  I like Mint and I see it offers MATE (a fork of GNOME

2) or Cinnamon (a fork of GNOME 3).
Does it matter?

KDE is very, very customizable.  GNOME 3 is ... not.  There has been
a remarkable amount of continuity in how KDE's applications have
behaved (and looked, if you want) since KDE 2.  And no, not every
application starts with a K these days.  Default file manager is
dolphin not konqueror, default image viewer is gwenview not kview,
default screenshot taker is spectacle not kscreenshot.  So I prefer
KDE but EPID and YMMV.


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Re: GNOME or KDE?

[Samuel Stavole-Carter via PLUG-discuss]

Just want to plug i3-gaps. Very lightweight and very customizable.

On Tue, Mar 22, 2022 at 5:37 PM JD Austin via PLUG-discuss <
plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:

> You can just install the new window manager to try it out and select it
> when you login.  Typically you can use a small gear icon to switch the
> window manager on the login page before pressing enter or clicking the
> button to login. My Fedora desktop has KDE Plasma, Gnome, Mint, and
> Cinnamon, of which Gnome is my least favorite. It seems designed for a
> touch screen or tablet. You can run KDE/Gnome apps on Mint, Cinnamon, etc
> if it's installed even if you're not running it.
> JD
> --
> [image: eSig Logo]
> J.D AUSTIN
> TWIN GECKOS TECHNOLOGY SERVICES LLC
> Open Technology Specialist
> P.O. Box 2487 Apache Junction, Az 85117
> Web: www.twingeckos.com
> Work: 480-269-4335 
> x10004
> Fax: 480-907-1433 
> Cell: 480-288-8195 
>
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 22, 2022 at 5:27 PM Snyder, Alexander J via PLUG-discuss <
> plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:
>
>> No, kubuntu is (or was) a thing. You should be able to strip your gui
>> (desktop manager) out, leaving you at a terminal prompt. Then you should be
>> able to install KDE.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Alexander
>>
>> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S22+
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 22, 2022, 16:44 AZ Pete via PLUG-discuss <
>> plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:
>>
>>> All,
>>>
>>> I have been using Ubuntu as one of my desktops for a while, but have
>>> always been irritated by how difficult it is to do customize things.
>>> I was thinking of trying KDE, but do I have to re-install a new Kubuntu
>>> O/S to have KDE or is there a way to install the KDE desktop on my Ubuntu
>>> 20.04 (Gnome) desktop?
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> Peter
>>>
>>>
>>> On 3/22/2022 3:44 PM, Matt Graham via PLUG-discuss wrote:
>>>
>>> On 2022-03-22 15:23, Keith Smith via PLUG-discuss wrote:
>>>
>>> In the past there has been some discussion about which is better
>>> GNOME or KDE?  I like Mint and I see it offers MATE (a fork of GNOME
>>> 2) or Cinnamon (a fork of GNOME 3).
>>> Does it matter?
>>>
>>>
>>> KDE is very, very customizable.  GNOME 3 is ... not.  There has been a
>>> remarkable amount of continuity in how KDE's applications have behaved (and
>>> looked, if you want) since KDE 2.  And no, not every application starts
>>> with a K these days.  Default file manager is dolphin not konqueror,
>>> default image viewer is gwenview not kview, default screenshot taker is
>>> spectacle not kscreenshot.  So I prefer KDE but EPID and YMMV.
>>>
>>>
>>> ---
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>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>>
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Re: GNOME or KDE?

[JD Austin via PLUG-discuss]

You can just install the new window manager to try it out and select it
when you login.  Typically you can use a small gear icon to switch the
window manager on the login page before pressing enter or clicking the
button to login. My Fedora desktop has KDE Plasma, Gnome, Mint, and
Cinnamon, of which Gnome is my least favorite. It seems designed for a
touch screen or tablet. You can run KDE/Gnome apps on Mint, Cinnamon, etc
if it's installed even if you're not running it.
JD
--
[image: eSig Logo]
J.D AUSTIN
TWIN GECKOS TECHNOLOGY SERVICES LLC
Open Technology Specialist
P.O. Box 2487 Apache Junction, Az 85117
Web: www.twingeckos.com
Work: 480-269-4335 
x10004
Fax: 480-907-1433 
Cell: 480-288-8195 



On Tue, Mar 22, 2022 at 5:27 PM Snyder, Alexander J via PLUG-discuss <
plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:

> No, kubuntu is (or was) a thing. You should be able to strip your gui
> (desktop manager) out, leaving you at a terminal prompt. Then you should be
> able to install KDE.
>
> Thanks,
> Alexander
>
> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S22+
>
> On Tue, Mar 22, 2022, 16:44 AZ Pete via PLUG-discuss <
> plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:
>
>> All,
>>
>> I have been using Ubuntu as one of my desktops for a while, but have
>> always been irritated by how difficult it is to do customize things.
>> I was thinking of trying KDE, but do I have to re-install a new Kubuntu
>> O/S to have KDE or is there a way to install the KDE desktop on my Ubuntu
>> 20.04 (Gnome) desktop?
>>
>> Thanks
>> Peter
>>
>>
>> On 3/22/2022 3:44 PM, Matt Graham via PLUG-discuss wrote:
>>
>> On 2022-03-22 15:23, Keith Smith via PLUG-discuss wrote:
>>
>> In the past there has been some discussion about which is better
>> GNOME or KDE?  I like Mint and I see it offers MATE (a fork of GNOME
>> 2) or Cinnamon (a fork of GNOME 3).
>> Does it matter?
>>
>>
>> KDE is very, very customizable.  GNOME 3 is ... not.  There has been a
>> remarkable amount of continuity in how KDE's applications have behaved (and
>> looked, if you want) since KDE 2.  And no, not every application starts
>> with a K these days.  Default file manager is dolphin not konqueror,
>> default image viewer is gwenview not kview, default screenshot taker is
>> spectacle not kscreenshot.  So I prefer KDE but EPID and YMMV.
>>
>>
>> ---
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>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
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Re: GNOME or KDE?

[Snyder, Alexander J via PLUG-discuss]

No, kubuntu is (or was) a thing. You should be able to strip your gui
(desktop manager) out, leaving you at a terminal prompt. Then you should be
able to install KDE.

Thanks,
Alexander

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S22+

On Tue, Mar 22, 2022, 16:44 AZ Pete via PLUG-discuss <
plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:

> All,
>
> I have been using Ubuntu as one of my desktops for a while, but have
> always been irritated by how difficult it is to do customize things.
> I was thinking of trying KDE, but do I have to re-install a new Kubuntu
> O/S to have KDE or is there a way to install the KDE desktop on my Ubuntu
> 20.04 (Gnome) desktop?
>
> Thanks
> Peter
>
>
> On 3/22/2022 3:44 PM, Matt Graham via PLUG-discuss wrote:
>
> On 2022-03-22 15:23, Keith Smith via PLUG-discuss wrote:
>
> In the past there has been some discussion about which is better
> GNOME or KDE?  I like Mint and I see it offers MATE (a fork of GNOME
> 2) or Cinnamon (a fork of GNOME 3).
> Does it matter?
>
>
> KDE is very, very customizable.  GNOME 3 is ... not.  There has been a
> remarkable amount of continuity in how KDE's applications have behaved (and
> looked, if you want) since KDE 2.  And no, not every application starts
> with a K these days.  Default file manager is dolphin not konqueror,
> default image viewer is gwenview not kview, default screenshot taker is
> spectacle not kscreenshot.  So I prefer KDE but EPID and YMMV.
>
>
> ---
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Re: GNOME or KDE?

[AZ Pete via PLUG-discuss]

All,

I have been using Ubuntu as one of my desktops for a while, but have always 
been irritated by how difficult it is to do customize things.
I was thinking of trying KDE, but do I have to re-install a new Kubuntu O/S to 
have KDE or is there a way to install the KDE desktop on my Ubuntu 20.04 
(Gnome) desktop?

Thanks
Peter


On 3/22/2022 3:44 PM, Matt Graham via PLUG-discuss wrote:

On 2022-03-22 15:23, Keith Smith via PLUG-discuss wrote:

In the past there has been some discussion about which is better
GNOME or KDE?  I like Mint and I see it offers MATE (a fork of GNOME
2) or Cinnamon (a fork of GNOME 3).
Does it matter?


KDE is very, very customizable.  GNOME 3 is ... not.  There has been a 
remarkable amount of continuity in how KDE's applications have behaved (and 
looked, if you want) since KDE 2.  And no, not every application starts with a 
K these days.  Default file manager is dolphin not konqueror, default image 
viewer is gwenview not kview, default screenshot taker is spectacle not 
kscreenshot. So I prefer KDE but EPID and YMMV.

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Re: GNOME or KDE?

[greg zegan via PLUG-discuss]

 thank you that is good to know.I am using CentOS 8.? stream, but I heard they 
were not going to support it anymore.
On Tuesday, March 22, 2022, 03:44:44 PM MST, Snyder, Alexander J via 
PLUG-discuss  wrote:  
 
 Yes, Rocky is a bug-for-bug compliant version of RHEL.
Spawned in the wake of the CentOS demise, by the original creator of CentOS!
--
Thanks,
Alex.



On Tue, Mar 22, 2022 at 3:42 PM Phil Waclawski via PLUG-discuss 
 wrote:

Well, just have it on a test machine, so far all the redhat documentation seems 
to work just fine on it, YMMV.Phil W
On Tue, Mar 22, 2022 at 3:41 PM greg zegan via PLUG-discuss 
 wrote:

 https://rockylinux.org/ ???
Is that a good version to use if you are studying for the RHCSA exam?
On Tuesday, March 22, 2022, 03:37:56 PM MST, Phil Waclawski via 
PLUG-discuss  wrote:  
 
 I like Kubuntu  (ubuntu with the KDE desktop)  for my desktops/laptops.I am 
presently using CentOS on my servers, but probably switching to Rocky 
Linux.Phil W
On Tue, Mar 22, 2022 at 3:23 PM Keith Smith via PLUG-discuss 
 wrote:

In the past there has been some discussion about which is better GNOME 
or KDE?  I like Mint and I see it offers MATE (a fork of GNOME 2) or 
Cinnamon (a fork of GNOME 3).  It has been years and I think I selected 
Cinnamon for my desktop.

Does it matter?

I tried Ubuntu and I did not like it for my workstation.  However for 
servers I only want Ubuntu.

Thanks!!

PS I'm on a mission and might have dozens of questions.  Thank you in 
advance!!


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Re: GNOME or KDE?

[Snyder, Alexander J via PLUG-discuss]

Yes, Rocky is a bug-for-bug compliant version of RHEL.

Spawned in the wake of the CentOS demise, by the original creator of CentOS!

--
Thanks,
Alex.




On Tue, Mar 22, 2022 at 3:42 PM Phil Waclawski via PLUG-discuss <
plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:

> Well, just have it on a test machine, so far all the redhat documentation
> seems to work just fine on it, YMMV.
> Phil W
>
> On Tue, Mar 22, 2022 at 3:41 PM greg zegan via PLUG-discuss <
> plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:
>
>> https://rockylinux.org/ ???
>> Is that a good version to use if you are studying for the RHCSA exam?
>>
>> On Tuesday, March 22, 2022, 03:37:56 PM MST, Phil Waclawski via
>> PLUG-discuss  wrote:
>>
>>
>> I like Kubuntu  (ubuntu with the KDE desktop)  for my desktops/laptops.
>> I am presently using CentOS on my servers, but probably switching to
>> Rocky Linux.
>> Phil W
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 22, 2022 at 3:23 PM Keith Smith via PLUG-discuss <
>> plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:
>>
>> In the past there has been some discussion about which is better GNOME
>> or KDE?  I like Mint and I see it offers MATE (a fork of GNOME 2) or
>> Cinnamon (a fork of GNOME 3).  It has been years and I think I selected
>> Cinnamon for my desktop.
>>
>> Does it matter?
>>
>> I tried Ubuntu and I did not like it for my workstation.  However for
>> servers I only want Ubuntu.
>>
>> Thanks!!
>>
>> PS I'm on a mission and might have dozens of questions.  Thank you in
>> advance!!
>>
>>
>> ---
>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org
>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>>
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Re: GNOME or KDE?

[Phil Waclawski via PLUG-discuss]

Well, just have it on a test machine, so far all the redhat documentation
seems to work just fine on it, YMMV.
Phil W

On Tue, Mar 22, 2022 at 3:41 PM greg zegan via PLUG-discuss <
plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:

> https://rockylinux.org/ ???
> Is that a good version to use if you are studying for the RHCSA exam?
>
> On Tuesday, March 22, 2022, 03:37:56 PM MST, Phil Waclawski via
> PLUG-discuss  wrote:
>
>
> I like Kubuntu  (ubuntu with the KDE desktop)  for my desktops/laptops.
> I am presently using CentOS on my servers, but probably switching to Rocky
> Linux.
> Phil W
>
> On Tue, Mar 22, 2022 at 3:23 PM Keith Smith via PLUG-discuss <
> plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:
>
> In the past there has been some discussion about which is better GNOME
> or KDE?  I like Mint and I see it offers MATE (a fork of GNOME 2) or
> Cinnamon (a fork of GNOME 3).  It has been years and I think I selected
> Cinnamon for my desktop.
>
> Does it matter?
>
> I tried Ubuntu and I did not like it for my workstation.  However for
> servers I only want Ubuntu.
>
> Thanks!!
>
> PS I'm on a mission and might have dozens of questions.  Thank you in
> advance!!
>
>
> ---
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Re: GNOME or KDE?

[greg zegan via PLUG-discuss]

 https://rockylinux.org/ ???
Is that a good version to use if you are studying for the RHCSA exam?
On Tuesday, March 22, 2022, 03:37:56 PM MST, Phil Waclawski via 
PLUG-discuss  wrote:  
 
 I like Kubuntu  (ubuntu with the KDE desktop)  for my desktops/laptops.I am 
presently using CentOS on my servers, but probably switching to Rocky 
Linux.Phil W
On Tue, Mar 22, 2022 at 3:23 PM Keith Smith via PLUG-discuss 
 wrote:

In the past there has been some discussion about which is better GNOME 
or KDE?  I like Mint and I see it offers MATE (a fork of GNOME 2) or 
Cinnamon (a fork of GNOME 3).  It has been years and I think I selected 
Cinnamon for my desktop.

Does it matter?

I tried Ubuntu and I did not like it for my workstation.  However for 
servers I only want Ubuntu.

Thanks!!

PS I'm on a mission and might have dozens of questions.  Thank you in 
advance!!


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Re: GNOME or KDE?

[Matt Graham via PLUG-discuss]

On 2022-03-22 15:23, Keith Smith via PLUG-discuss wrote:

In the past there has been some discussion about which is better
GNOME or KDE?  I like Mint and I see it offers MATE (a fork of GNOME
2) or Cinnamon (a fork of GNOME 3).
Does it matter?


KDE is very, very customizable.  GNOME 3 is ... not.  There has been a 
remarkable amount of continuity in how KDE's applications have behaved 
(and looked, if you want) since KDE 2.  And no, not every application 
starts with a K these days.  Default file manager is dolphin not 
konqueror, default image viewer is gwenview not kview, default 
screenshot taker is spectacle not kscreenshot.  So I prefer KDE but EPID 
and YMMV.


--
Crow202 Blog: http://crow202.org/wordpress
There is no Darkness in Eternity
But only Light too dim for us to see.
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Re: GNOME or KDE?

[Phil Waclawski via PLUG-discuss]

I like Kubuntu  (ubuntu with the KDE desktop)  for my desktops/laptops.
I am presently using CentOS on my servers, but probably switching to Rocky
Linux.
Phil W

On Tue, Mar 22, 2022 at 3:23 PM Keith Smith via PLUG-discuss <
plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:

> In the past there has been some discussion about which is better GNOME
> or KDE?  I like Mint and I see it offers MATE (a fork of GNOME 2) or
> Cinnamon (a fork of GNOME 3).  It has been years and I think I selected
> Cinnamon for my desktop.
>
> Does it matter?
>
> I tried Ubuntu and I did not like it for my workstation.  However for
> servers I only want Ubuntu.
>
> Thanks!!
>
> PS I'm on a mission and might have dozens of questions.  Thank you in
> advance!!
>
>
> ---
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