RE: List of Command Line Tools
I'll be honest I have been reading this and going oh yha, that is a good one but I have never heard of screen until now http://www.manpagez.com/man/1/screen/ -Original Message- From: plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us [mailto:plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us] On Behalf Of Matrix Mole Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2009 10:06 AM To: Main PLUG discussion list Subject: Re: List of Command Line Tools I am surprised, with all these great command line tools that have been mentioned no one has yet to mention screen, an almost vital component in my toolbox for command line usage. Other programs I use that I don't believe I've seen mentioned: rtorrent - Torrents mcabber - Jabber tool (connected to gchat) uudeview - used to decode binary files from newgroups I've tried both tin and slrn for newsgroup reading, both work great for text, but for some reason seem to fail at binary newgroup usage in my opinion (been over a year since I used newsgroups though so couldn't say off the top of my head why now). I've found nget works great for pure binaries though. I've been trying to find a really good imap based command line email client that blends almost perfectly with gmail and it's inability to accurately implement imap according to the RFCs (basically something that does similar to thunderbird but via command line instead). I've tried mutt, but it generated extra emails whenever I send for some reason (they appear in my inbox as replies of my email for some reason, causing unnecessary clutter). --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: List of Command Line Tools
Screen is the greatest tool EVER!!! A CLI window manager! I mean, DUDE!!! On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 11:04 PM, Bryan O'Neal bon...@cornerstonehome.comwrote: I'll be honest I have been reading this and going oh yha, that is a good one but I have never heard of screen until now http://www.manpagez.com/man/1/screen/ -Original Message- From: plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us [mailto:plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us] On Behalf Of Matrix Mole Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2009 10:06 AM To: Main PLUG discussion list Subject: Re: List of Command Line Tools I am surprised, with all these great command line tools that have been mentioned no one has yet to mention screen, an almost vital component in my toolbox for command line usage. Other programs I use that I don't believe I've seen mentioned: rtorrent - Torrents mcabber - Jabber tool (connected to gchat) uudeview - used to decode binary files from newgroups I've tried both tin and slrn for newsgroup reading, both work great for text, but for some reason seem to fail at binary newgroup usage in my opinion (been over a year since I used newsgroups though so couldn't say off the top of my head why now). I've found nget works great for pure binaries though. I've been trying to find a really good imap based command line email client that blends almost perfectly with gmail and it's inability to accurately implement imap according to the RFCs (basically something that does similar to thunderbird but via command line instead). I've tried mutt, but it generated extra emails whenever I send for some reason (they appear in my inbox as replies of my email for some reason, causing unnecessary clutter). --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss -- James McPhee jmc...@gmail.com --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: OT: [Computerworld:] Cisco takes aim at WiMax
This is interesting this came up just now: here at our motel, we've just installed a WiMax system; unlike ClearWire, it looks like an old Motorola Canopy system, with a rooftop antenna pointed downtown, but performance wise it beats both in terms of latency and raw speed. Part of the solution was to transfer our lines going through a T-1 to VoIP and reduce the number from 14 to 4, though we have to keep a couple for the fire alarm and fax, apparently. We had a lot of problems getting everything working, which came down mostly to a bad radio, but these guys kept working at it until it was fixed, so I have no problem recommending them: http://www.televolve.com -- The phone people, doing VoIP on top of the WiMax company below--ask for Carlos. http://www.westernwimax.net formerly Black Rock Broadband -- Tim, the main tech guy and part-owner, is an ex-Cisco guy. If you buy the phone service, Televolve will handle the ordering of the WiMax service as well as the changeover from the previous carrier. The only part they couldn't handle was the PBX reprogramming and punch block rewiring. I don't think I can recommend the PBX guys, not because he didn't know what he was doing or anything, but at $150/hour, you'd think he was a lawyer or heart surgeon! Mike On Mon, 18 May 2009 17:03:55 -0700, Joseph Sinclair plug-discuss...@stcaz.net said: There are some substantial differences between WiMax and WiFi. The Muni WiFi nets are about providing 802.11 throughout an area. Considering the limited range of the 2.4GHz band used, it's fairly difficult and there tend to be a lot of small dead zones. WiMax is a wide-area technology in a completely different (and fully licensed) band. WiMax placements cannot be done by consumers because you have to pay a lot of money for the location-specific license and meet FCC siting requirements. ClearWire holds most (about $3 billion worth transferred from Sprint) of the WiMax licenses in the US. WiMax is more of a competitor to 3G cellular. Some have put it forward as the 4G cellular standard, but it's not clear what will happen there, since Sprint and Intel prefer WiMax, but NGMN chose LTE, and many carriers don't care which is used, as long as everyone uses the same radio standard. The Cisco thing is about providing the base-station equipment to ClearWire and offering a Linksys box for WiMax-to-WiFi similar to routers already available from various competitors for 3G-cellular-to-WiFi. Hope that helps. Mike Schwartz wrote: This link: http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasicarticleId=339523source=CWNLE_nlt_thisweek_2009-05-18 points to an article (Cisco takes aim at WiMax) from Computerworld. Does this relate to this old thread? : http://lists.plug.phoenix.az.us/lurker/message/20080225.172251.1ee32f7a.en.html [OT: (is this OT?) [Tempe ... isn't alone] www.computerworld.com on municipal wifi woes] or, is my ignorance about the term [WiMax] even more than I thought? see also: this other old post: http://lists.plug.phoenix.az.us/lurker/message/20080324.232746.84d13a21.en.html [Re: OT: (is this OT?) udpate - [news item: Sebastopol] (was: Re: [...] municipal wifi woes)] (including, the link it has, to a NY Times story...) --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: HTTP Access Logging and apology to Hans
I didn't see the LOL. Sorry. On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 10:36 PM, Bob Elzer bob.el...@gmail.com wrote: I was trying to be funny, hence the LOL If it wasn't taken that way I apologize. -- *From:* plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us [mailto: plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us] *On Behalf Of *mike havens *Sent:* Monday, May 18, 2009 4:11 PM *To:* Main PLUG discussion list *Subject:* Re: HTTP Access Logging and apology to Hans that sounds mean, BOB. If you were trying to sound funny it didn't work. further: Hans, I re-read my comment concerning the picture and asking if that was you and realized it might be misconstrued as an insult. I did not mean it that way. Sorry. On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 3:53 PM, keith smith klsmith2...@yahoo.comwrote: Thanks for your kindness! Keith Smith --- On Mon, 5/18/09, Craig White craigwh...@azapple.com wrote: From: Craig White craigwh...@azapple.com Subject: Re: HTTP Access Logging To: Main PLUG discussion list plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us Date: Monday, May 18, 2009, 12:50 PM On Mon, 2009-05-18 at 11:23 -0700, keith smith wrote: Sorry for the confusion. I was thinking it was June not may. Everything is there. Silly me! it feels like June outside Craig -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss -- :-)~MIKE~(-: --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss -- :-)~MIKE~(-: --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
RE: Migrating from Outlook to Evolution
You can export directly out of outlook as a CSV and import directly into evolution. -Original Message- From: plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us [mailto:plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us] On Behalf Of Chris Gehlker Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 11:44 AM To: Main PLUG discussion list Subject: Re: Migrating from Outlook to Evolution On May 18, 2009, at 10:35 AM, Eric Shubert wrote: If you set up an IMAP server, you can simply use Outlook to move the messages out of the local pst file into the IMAP store. Then you can access the email from any IMAP client (including Blackberry). Probably not the solution you're looking for though. :( And that does nothing about contacts, etc. Thanks for the reply. Not moving the address book is a big issue. I got a screenshot of his folder hierarchy and it's pretty simple so the T-Bird method looks very doable. -- Seven Deadly Sins? I thought it was a to-do list! --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
RE: Access Log Times
Lisa, I am curious what you would recommend? I have tried a few and most leave me flat and unimpressed. _ From: plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us [mailto:plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us] On Behalf Of Lisa Kachold Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 1:11 PM To: Main PLUG discussion list Subject: Re: Access Log Times This includes the -7 (see it says that) I would strongly suggest that you setup a nice log server solution, so you can see at a glance referrers, and errors, 404, etc. On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 12:44 PM, keith smith klsmith2...@yahoo.com wrote: Hi All, Thanks for understanding of my missed date. I'm looking in the access log and I see the date in this format [16/May/2009:13:18:08 -0700] . This brings up the question. In this case is this the server time or do I need to add in the GMT offset of 7 hours to get the time. In other words is this actually 18:08 (6:08pm) server time or is it 11:08am server time. Thanks in advance. Keith --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss -- www.obnosis.com (503)754-4452 Contradictions do not exist. A. Rand --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: info on a DNS
On May 19, 2009, at 3:54 AM, mike havens wrote: I want to find out all that I can about a certain Domain Name Server. Unfortunately, I do not have linux on my computer so I will have to ask someone to do this for me. The DNS is 4.2.2.2 or 4.2.2.1 Ping has started ... PING 4.2.2.2 (4.2.2.2): 56 data bytes 64 bytes from 4.2.2.2: icmp_seq=0 ttl=239 time=48.712 ms 64 bytes from 4.2.2.2: icmp_seq=1 ttl=239 time=47.557 ms 64 bytes from 4.2.2.2: icmp_seq=2 ttl=239 time=50.203 ms 64 bytes from 4.2.2.2: icmp_seq=3 ttl=239 time=48.203 ms 64 bytes from 4.2.2.2: icmp_seq=4 ttl=239 time=47.882 ms 64 bytes from 4.2.2.2: icmp_seq=5 ttl=239 time=47.831 ms 64 bytes from 4.2.2.2: icmp_seq=6 ttl=239 time=48.235 ms 64 bytes from 4.2.2.2: icmp_seq=7 ttl=239 time=49.714 ms 64 bytes from 4.2.2.2: icmp_seq=8 ttl=239 time=47.624 ms 64 bytes from 4.2.2.2: icmp_seq=9 ttl=239 time=47.311 ms --- 4.2.2.2 ping statistics --- 10 packets transmitted, 10 packets received, 0% packet loss round-trip min/avg/max/stddev = 47.311/48.327/50.203/0.904 ms Ping has started ... PING 4.2.2.1 (4.2.2.1): 56 data bytes 64 bytes from 4.2.2.1: icmp_seq=0 ttl=239 time=48.445 ms 64 bytes from 4.2.2.1: icmp_seq=1 ttl=239 time=47.027 ms 64 bytes from 4.2.2.1: icmp_seq=2 ttl=239 time=49.955 ms 64 bytes from 4.2.2.1: icmp_seq=3 ttl=239 time=47.858 ms 64 bytes from 4.2.2.1: icmp_seq=4 ttl=239 time=48.533 ms 64 bytes from 4.2.2.1: icmp_seq=5 ttl=239 time=47.561 ms 64 bytes from 4.2.2.1: icmp_seq=6 ttl=239 time=47.631 ms 64 bytes from 4.2.2.1: icmp_seq=7 ttl=239 time=48.280 ms 64 bytes from 4.2.2.1: icmp_seq=8 ttl=239 time=47.015 ms 64 bytes from 4.2.2.1: icmp_seq=9 ttl=239 time=48.928 ms --- 4.2.2.1 ping statistics --- 10 packets transmitted, 10 packets received, 0% packet loss round-trip min/avg/max/stddev = 47.015/48.123/49.955/0.858 ms Lookup has started ... ; DiG 9.4.3-P1 -x 4.2.2.2 any +multiline +nocomments +nocmd +noquestion +nostats +search ;; global options: printcmd 2.2.2.4.in-addr.arpa. 86400 IN PTR vnsc-bak.sys.gtei.net. Traceroute has started ... traceroute to 4.2.2.2 (4.2.2.2), 64 hops max, 40 byte packets 1 65.39.93.21 (65.39.93.21) 3.109 ms 2.261 ms 2.269 ms 2 65.39.80.1 (65.39.80.1) 33.766 ms 37.593 ms 33.941 ms 3 fa14.border1.phx.fastq.net (65.39.64.5) 34.003 ms 33.410 ms 33.972 ms 4 gi49.core2.phx.fastq.net (65.39.64.10) 33.990 ms 33.293 ms 34.009 ms 5 gi07.core3.phx.fastq.net (65.39.64.98) 34.010 ms 34.142 ms 33.978 ms 6 65.39.64.74 (65.39.64.74) 34.924 ms 35.667 ms 36.397 ms 7 gi06.border1.sdl.fastq.net (65.39.64.78) 34.754 ms 35.344 ms 35.597 ms 8 wsip-72-214-210-33.ph.ph.cox.net (72.214.210.33) 35.007 ms 35.293 ms 34.957 ms 9 70.169.73.85 (70.169.73.85) 46.835 ms 36.890 ms 35.890 ms 10 chnddsrj01-ge710.0.rd.ph.cox.net (68.1.0.165) 37.966 ms 38.230 ms 38.177 ms 11 ae-11-11.car2.Phoenix1.Level3.net (4.69.133.34) 40.238 ms 39.316 ms 38.729 ms 12 ae-4-4.ebr2.LosAngeles1.Level3.net (4.69.133.38) 59.087 ms 47.653 ms 50.736 ms 13 ae-92-92.csw4.LosAngeles1.Level3.net (4.69.137.30) 58.597 ms 48.153 ms 49.973 ms 14 ae-41-99.car1.LosAngeles1.Level3.net (4.68.20.195) 48.703 ms 48.172 ms ae-11-69.car1.LosAngeles1.Level3.net (4.68.20.3) 48.352 ms 15 * vnsc-bak.sys.gtei.net (4.2.2.2) 48.334 ms * Whois has started ... Whois Server Version 2.0 Domain names in the .com and .net domains can now be registered with many different competing registrars. Go to http://www.internic.net for detailed information. NS2.COLOMART.NET NS1.CDCHOSTNET.NET NS1.CDCHELP.NET NS2.KIRKLAND-NETWORKING-COMPUTERS.COM NS5.AXISCI.COM PMCWEB2.PMCMAP.COM DNS.INTEXID.COM DNS2.BETTERRESULTSINC.COM NS1.COLOMART.NET NS0.MOSEFOLDERS.COM FIREPASS.CARLGOTTLIEB.COM WWW.USAKKARAHANTICARET.COM NS1.DEADZEN.COM NS1.DOTRESOLVE.COM DNS1.QUILLHOST.COM NS4.SHIDES.COM AARON.PREPAIDCS.COM 9D9NP21.CDCHELP.COM NS6.COLOMART.NET DNS6.OURHAYESFAMILY.COM NS1.THUMBNAILDESIGNS.COM GODADDY-SUCKS.THEBELTRANFAMILY.COM NS2.THUMBNAILDESIGNS.COM NS1.OPERADORENLINEA.NET NS2.MYMINIONS.NET NS2.LEMMHOUSE.COM INTRANET.PREPAIDCS.COM NS1.MICHELMCARTHUR.COM NS.CDCHOSTNET.NET SUPPORT.PREPAIDCS.COM NS2.CDCHELP.COM NS2.CDCHOSTNET.NET CCXBR51.CDCHELP.COM NS0.MYVISTANCE.COM NS2.BARZARVIRTUALMEX.COM NS1.UNLIMITEDTREASURIES.COM NS4.COLOMART.NET NS1.IBOXTVTECH.COM NS1.STREAMIBOX.COM NS3.COLOMART.NET NS2.BOZAJESKI.COM WWW.READYFIGHT.COM NS5.COLOMART.NET DELETE2.HOSTINGIM.NET NS2.HYIPSERVER.NET WWW.KAHKAHATR.NET 4.2.2.2 Port Scan has started ... Port Scanning host: 4.2.2.2 Open TCP Port: 22 ssh Open TCP Port: 53 domain Open TCP Port: 111 sunrpc Open TCP Port: 179 bgp -- Egotism is the anesthetic that dulls the pain of stupidity. -Frank William Leahy, football coach (1908-1973) --- PLUG-discuss mailing list -
Re: info on a DNS
On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 3:54 AM, mike havens bmi...@gmail.com wrote: I want to find out all that I can about a certain Domain Name Server. Unfortunately, I do not have linux on my computer so I will have to ask someone to do this for me. The DNS is 4.2.2.2 or 4.2.2.1 -- :-)~MIKE~(-: Same for both: $ whois 4.2.2.1 $ whois 4.2.2.2 OrgName:Level 3 Communications, Inc. OrgID: LVLT Address:1025 Eldorado Blvd. City: Broomfield StateProv: CO PostalCode: 80021 Country:US NetRange: 4.0.0.0 - 4.255.255.255 CIDR: 4.0.0.0/8 NetName:LVLT-ORG-4-8 NetHandle: NET-4-0-0-0-1 Parent: NetType:Direct Allocation NameServer: NS1.LEVEL3.NET NameServer: NS2.LEVEL3.NET Comment: RegDate: Updated:2004-06-04 OrgAbuseHandle: APL8-ARIN OrgAbuseName: Abuse POC LVLT OrgAbusePhone: +1-877-453-8353 OrgAbuseEmail: secur...@level3.com OrgTechHandle: ARINC4-ARIN OrgTechName: ARIN Contact OrgTechPhone: +1-800-436-8489 OrgTechEmail: arin-cont...@genuity.com OrgTechHandle: TPL1-ARIN OrgTechName: Tech POC LVLT OrgTechPhone: +1-877-453-8353 OrgTechEmail: ipaddress...@level3.com # ARIN WHOIS database, last updated 2009-05-18 19:10 # Enter ? for additional hints on searching ARIN's WHOIS database. --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Best first programming language
Even though I am not knowledgeable in the language, I think the best first language for business is Java. It is also good for a first leaning experience for other reasons but it is popular in the business application world. For web applications, in the cloud, Ruby seems to be a more and more popular next language. Alan On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 5:12 AM, Dennis Kibbe denn...@li3-188.members.linode.com wrote: I searched the archive but didn't find a previous discussion about this. A friend who graduates from high school next week wants to take a summer course in programming. His goal is to become a business applications programmer. He asked me what language he should start with. I'd guess the prgramming landscape is changing with more services going into the cloud. Joseph, Hans, Charles I'm sure you have opinoins and I welcome anyone elses. My friend, Ian isn't on the list so I'll point him to gmane.org to follow the discussion. dennisk -- Free Software, Free Society Free Software Foundation --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Best first programming language
Learn to use a Unix system at the command-line along with a text editor and start writing BASH program. The command-line provides exposure to the Unix philosophy, files/directories, options/arguments, variables (environment), I/O, meta-characters and documentation (via manpages). First programs are written in BASH. BASH supports structured programming (sequence, if, while, functions) and an introduction to data structures/algorithms via arrays. After BASH I'd move onto C (using Ritchie and Kernighan for the text) with extensive coverage of the STDC Library. From this point there are numerous forks in the road. The hello, world program writtin in BASH. $ echo hello, world ENTER --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: List of Command Line Tools
On Mon, 18 May 2009 23:07:41 -0700 James Mcphee jmc...@gmail.com wrote: Screen is the greatest tool EVER!!! A CLI window manager! I mean, DUDE!!! I work from home 3 days a week. Most of the time, in the morning and in the mid afternoon, i have re-connect my vpn 10 - 15 times in as many minutes! REALLY bothersome. I say this, because I consider screen the essential tool for everything else I do. When my vpn goes down while I am in the middle of something, all I have to do is reconnect my vpn, login to the server that I was doing work on, and do a screen -rd screen-name and I am RIGHT BACK to what I was doing! The other reason I use screen is for very long running commands. Case in point, I was converting a large cvs repository over to a clearcase vob, and I did the effort in a screen. It took a few days to get all the cvs repository down on the clearcase server, and about a week to do a clearfsimport to get the old cvs data in the new vob. screen allowed me to detach and let it run for those 2 weeks. I couldn't live without it. Jerry --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Best first programming language
--- On Tue, 5/19/09, Dennis Kibbe denn...@li3-188.members.linode.com wrote: A friend who graduates from high school next week wants to take a summer course in programming. His goal is to become a business applications programmer. He asked me what language he should start with. I'd guess the prgramming landscape is changing with more services going into the cloud. With above emphasis, I think the first choice is Java. --Jason --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
RE: Best first programming language
At the risk of starting a flame war I would say the best is C#. If you look at both Tech Republic and CIO Magazine both have had articles in the last four or five months that listed .Net in the top ten skill sets for the current economy. Also as our office has been in the shutdown mode since November I have been scanning over 20 different job boards since and overwhelming there are more job posting for C# .Net Web programmers than any other area. If your goal is to get a job as a business programmer it seems that C# and .Net will give you the best chance to get a job. Just my observations. David -Original Message- From: plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us [mailto:plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us]on Behalf Of Dennis Kibbe Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 5:13 AM To: Main PLUG discussion list Subject: Best first programming language I searched the archive but didn't find a previous discussion about this. A friend who graduates from high school next week wants to take a summer course in programming. His goal is to become a business applications programmer. He asked me what language he should start with. I'd guess the prgramming landscape is changing with more services going into the cloud. Joseph, Hans, Charles I'm sure you have opinoins and I welcome anyone elses. My friend, Ian isn't on the list so I'll point him to gmane.org to follow the discussion. dennisk -- Free Software, Free Society Free Software Foundation --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Best professional WEB site tool out there...
On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 7:44 AM, kitepi...@kitepilot.com kitepi...@kitepilot.com wrote: Hello collective intelligence: This is the simple plan: To make a professional looking WEB site with minimum effort and maximum flexibility. It is broken down as: A (sort of) knowledgeable person kick-starts the site and then handles maintenance and minor upgrades to monkeys. What's the tool out there that will allow a non-technical person to maintain most of a WEB site with the least amount of pain? Thanks! ET --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss My two picks: 1. Joomla 2. Drupal -- JD Austin Twin Geckos Technology Services LLC j...@twingeckos.com 480.288.8195x201 http://www.twingeckos.com Samuel Goldwynhttp://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/s/samuel_goldwyn.html - I'm willing to admit that I may not always be right, but I am never wrong. --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Best professional WEB site tool out there...
Plone/Zope. You can configure almost everything with its built in web interface, or add more customization using Python. Mark On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 7:44 AM, kitepi...@kitepilot.com kitepi...@kitepilot.com wrote: Hello collective intelligence: This is the simple plan: To make a professional looking WEB site with minimum effort and maximum flexibility. It is broken down as: A (sort of) knowledgeable person kick-starts the site and then handles maintenance and minor upgrades to monkeys. What's the tool out there that will allow a non-technical person to maintain most of a WEB site with the least amount of pain? Thanks! ET --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Best first programming language
On May 19, 2009, at 5:12 AM, Dennis Kibbe wrote: I searched the archive but didn't find a previous discussion about this. A friend who graduates from high school next week wants to take a summer course in programming. His goal is to become a business applications programmer. He asked me what language he should start with. I'd guess the prgramming landscape is changing with more services going into the cloud. Joseph, Hans, Charles I'm sure you have opinoins and I welcome anyone elses. My friend, Ian isn't on the list so I'll point him to gmane.org to follow the discussion. Ruby. --- Neither a man nor a crowd nor a nation can be trusted to act humanely or to think sanely under the influence of a great fear. -Bertrand Russell, philosopher, mathematician, author, Nobel laureate (1872-1970) --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: info on a DNS
Nice output, Chris. Care to share what created it? Chris Gehlker wrote: On May 19, 2009, at 3:54 AM, mike havens wrote: I want to find out all that I can about a certain Domain Name Server. Unfortunately, I do not have linux on my computer so I will have to ask someone to do this for me. The DNS is 4.2.2.2 or 4.2.2.1 Ping has started ... PING 4.2.2.2 (4.2.2.2): 56 data bytes 64 bytes from 4.2.2.2: icmp_seq=0 ttl=239 time=48.712 ms 64 bytes from 4.2.2.2: icmp_seq=1 ttl=239 time=47.557 ms 64 bytes from 4.2.2.2: icmp_seq=2 ttl=239 time=50.203 ms 64 bytes from 4.2.2.2: icmp_seq=3 ttl=239 time=48.203 ms 64 bytes from 4.2.2.2: icmp_seq=4 ttl=239 time=47.882 ms 64 bytes from 4.2.2.2: icmp_seq=5 ttl=239 time=47.831 ms 64 bytes from 4.2.2.2: icmp_seq=6 ttl=239 time=48.235 ms 64 bytes from 4.2.2.2: icmp_seq=7 ttl=239 time=49.714 ms 64 bytes from 4.2.2.2: icmp_seq=8 ttl=239 time=47.624 ms 64 bytes from 4.2.2.2: icmp_seq=9 ttl=239 time=47.311 ms --- 4.2.2.2 ping statistics --- 10 packets transmitted, 10 packets received, 0% packet loss round-trip min/avg/max/stddev = 47.311/48.327/50.203/0.904 ms Ping has started ... PING 4.2.2.1 (4.2.2.1): 56 data bytes 64 bytes from 4.2.2.1: icmp_seq=0 ttl=239 time=48.445 ms 64 bytes from 4.2.2.1: icmp_seq=1 ttl=239 time=47.027 ms 64 bytes from 4.2.2.1: icmp_seq=2 ttl=239 time=49.955 ms 64 bytes from 4.2.2.1: icmp_seq=3 ttl=239 time=47.858 ms 64 bytes from 4.2.2.1: icmp_seq=4 ttl=239 time=48.533 ms 64 bytes from 4.2.2.1: icmp_seq=5 ttl=239 time=47.561 ms 64 bytes from 4.2.2.1: icmp_seq=6 ttl=239 time=47.631 ms 64 bytes from 4.2.2.1: icmp_seq=7 ttl=239 time=48.280 ms 64 bytes from 4.2.2.1: icmp_seq=8 ttl=239 time=47.015 ms 64 bytes from 4.2.2.1: icmp_seq=9 ttl=239 time=48.928 ms --- 4.2.2.1 ping statistics --- 10 packets transmitted, 10 packets received, 0% packet loss round-trip min/avg/max/stddev = 47.015/48.123/49.955/0.858 ms Lookup has started ... ; DiG 9.4.3-P1 -x 4.2.2.2 any +multiline +nocomments +nocmd +noquestion +nostats +search ;; global options: printcmd 2.2.2.4.in-addr.arpa. 86400 IN PTR vnsc-bak.sys.gtei.net. Traceroute has started ... traceroute to 4.2.2.2 (4.2.2.2), 64 hops max, 40 byte packets 1 65.39.93.21 (65.39.93.21) 3.109 ms 2.261 ms 2.269 ms 2 65.39.80.1 (65.39.80.1) 33.766 ms 37.593 ms 33.941 ms 3 fa14.border1.phx.fastq.net (65.39.64.5) 34.003 ms 33.410 ms 33.972 ms 4 gi49.core2.phx.fastq.net (65.39.64.10) 33.990 ms 33.293 ms 34.009 ms 5 gi07.core3.phx.fastq.net (65.39.64.98) 34.010 ms 34.142 ms 33.978 ms 6 65.39.64.74 (65.39.64.74) 34.924 ms 35.667 ms 36.397 ms 7 gi06.border1.sdl.fastq.net (65.39.64.78) 34.754 ms 35.344 ms 35.597 ms 8 wsip-72-214-210-33.ph.ph.cox.net (72.214.210.33) 35.007 ms 35.293 ms 34.957 ms 9 70.169.73.85 (70.169.73.85) 46.835 ms 36.890 ms 35.890 ms 10 chnddsrj01-ge710.0.rd.ph.cox.net (68.1.0.165) 37.966 ms 38.230 ms 38.177 ms 11 ae-11-11.car2.Phoenix1.Level3.net (4.69.133.34) 40.238 ms 39.316 ms 38.729 ms 12 ae-4-4.ebr2.LosAngeles1.Level3.net (4.69.133.38) 59.087 ms 47.653 ms 50.736 ms 13 ae-92-92.csw4.LosAngeles1.Level3.net (4.69.137.30) 58.597 ms 48.153 ms 49.973 ms 14 ae-41-99.car1.LosAngeles1.Level3.net (4.68.20.195) 48.703 ms 48.172 ms ae-11-69.car1.LosAngeles1.Level3.net (4.68.20.3) 48.352 ms 15 * vnsc-bak.sys.gtei.net (4.2.2.2) 48.334 ms * Whois has started ... Whois Server Version 2.0 Domain names in the .com and .net domains can now be registered with many different competing registrars. Go to http://www.internic.net for detailed information. NS2.COLOMART.NET NS1.CDCHOSTNET.NET NS1.CDCHELP.NET NS2.KIRKLAND-NETWORKING-COMPUTERS.COM NS5.AXISCI.COM PMCWEB2.PMCMAP.COM DNS.INTEXID.COM DNS2.BETTERRESULTSINC.COM NS1.COLOMART.NET NS0.MOSEFOLDERS.COM FIREPASS.CARLGOTTLIEB.COM WWW.USAKKARAHANTICARET.COM NS1.DEADZEN.COM NS1.DOTRESOLVE.COM DNS1.QUILLHOST.COM NS4.SHIDES.COM AARON.PREPAIDCS.COM 9D9NP21.CDCHELP.COM NS6.COLOMART.NET DNS6.OURHAYESFAMILY.COM NS1.THUMBNAILDESIGNS.COM GODADDY-SUCKS.THEBELTRANFAMILY.COM NS2.THUMBNAILDESIGNS.COM NS1.OPERADORENLINEA.NET NS2.MYMINIONS.NET NS2.LEMMHOUSE.COM INTRANET.PREPAIDCS.COM NS1.MICHELMCARTHUR.COM NS.CDCHOSTNET.NET SUPPORT.PREPAIDCS.COM NS2.CDCHELP.COM NS2.CDCHOSTNET.NET CCXBR51.CDCHELP.COM NS0.MYVISTANCE.COM NS2.BARZARVIRTUALMEX.COM NS1.UNLIMITEDTREASURIES.COM NS4.COLOMART.NET NS1.IBOXTVTECH.COM NS1.STREAMIBOX.COM NS3.COLOMART.NET NS2.BOZAJESKI.COM WWW.READYFIGHT.COM NS5.COLOMART.NET DELETE2.HOSTINGIM.NET NS2.HYIPSERVER.NET WWW.KAHKAHATR.NET 4.2.2.2 Port Scan has started ... Port Scanning host: 4.2.2.2 Open TCP Port: 22 ssh Open TCP Port: 53 domain Open TCP Port: 111 sunrpc Open TCP Port: 179 bgp -- Egotism is the
Re: info on a DNS
On May 19, 2009, at 8:31 AM, Eric Shubert wrote: Nice output, Chris. Care to share what created it? You got me. It was Network Utility from OS X. Chris Gehlker wrote: On May 19, 2009, at 3:54 AM, mike havens wrote: I want to find out all that I can about a certain Domain Name Server. Unfortunately, I do not have linux on my computer so I will have to ask someone to do this for me. The DNS is 4.2.2.2 or 4.2.2.1 Ping has started ... PING 4.2.2.2 (4.2.2.2): 56 data bytes 64 bytes from 4.2.2.2: icmp_seq=0 ttl=239 time=48.712 ms 64 bytes from 4.2.2.2: icmp_seq=1 ttl=239 time=47.557 ms 64 bytes from 4.2.2.2: icmp_seq=2 ttl=239 time=50.203 ms 64 bytes from 4.2.2.2: icmp_seq=3 ttl=239 time=48.203 ms 64 bytes from 4.2.2.2: icmp_seq=4 ttl=239 time=47.882 ms 64 bytes from 4.2.2.2: icmp_seq=5 ttl=239 time=47.831 ms 64 bytes from 4.2.2.2: icmp_seq=6 ttl=239 time=48.235 ms 64 bytes from 4.2.2.2: icmp_seq=7 ttl=239 time=49.714 ms 64 bytes from 4.2.2.2: icmp_seq=8 ttl=239 time=47.624 ms 64 bytes from 4.2.2.2: icmp_seq=9 ttl=239 time=47.311 ms --- 4.2.2.2 ping statistics --- 10 packets transmitted, 10 packets received, 0% packet loss round-trip min/avg/max/stddev = 47.311/48.327/50.203/0.904 ms Ping has started ... PING 4.2.2.1 (4.2.2.1): 56 data bytes 64 bytes from 4.2.2.1: icmp_seq=0 ttl=239 time=48.445 ms 64 bytes from 4.2.2.1: icmp_seq=1 ttl=239 time=47.027 ms 64 bytes from 4.2.2.1: icmp_seq=2 ttl=239 time=49.955 ms 64 bytes from 4.2.2.1: icmp_seq=3 ttl=239 time=47.858 ms 64 bytes from 4.2.2.1: icmp_seq=4 ttl=239 time=48.533 ms 64 bytes from 4.2.2.1: icmp_seq=5 ttl=239 time=47.561 ms 64 bytes from 4.2.2.1: icmp_seq=6 ttl=239 time=47.631 ms 64 bytes from 4.2.2.1: icmp_seq=7 ttl=239 time=48.280 ms 64 bytes from 4.2.2.1: icmp_seq=8 ttl=239 time=47.015 ms 64 bytes from 4.2.2.1: icmp_seq=9 ttl=239 time=48.928 ms --- 4.2.2.1 ping statistics --- 10 packets transmitted, 10 packets received, 0% packet loss round-trip min/avg/max/stddev = 47.015/48.123/49.955/0.858 ms Lookup has started ... ; DiG 9.4.3-P1 -x 4.2.2.2 any +multiline +nocomments +nocmd +noquestion +nostats +search ;; global options: printcmd 2.2.2.4.in-addr.arpa.86400 IN PTR vnsc-bak.sys.gtei.net. Traceroute has started ... traceroute to 4.2.2.2 (4.2.2.2), 64 hops max, 40 byte packets 1 65.39.93.21 (65.39.93.21) 3.109 ms 2.261 ms 2.269 ms 2 65.39.80.1 (65.39.80.1) 33.766 ms 37.593 ms 33.941 ms 3 fa14.border1.phx.fastq.net (65.39.64.5) 34.003 ms 33.410 ms 33.972 ms 4 gi49.core2.phx.fastq.net (65.39.64.10) 33.990 ms 33.293 ms 34.009 ms 5 gi07.core3.phx.fastq.net (65.39.64.98) 34.010 ms 34.142 ms 33.978 ms 6 65.39.64.74 (65.39.64.74) 34.924 ms 35.667 ms 36.397 ms 7 gi06.border1.sdl.fastq.net (65.39.64.78) 34.754 ms 35.344 ms 35.597 ms 8 wsip-72-214-210-33.ph.ph.cox.net (72.214.210.33) 35.007 ms 35.293 ms 34.957 ms 9 70.169.73.85 (70.169.73.85) 46.835 ms 36.890 ms 35.890 ms 10 chnddsrj01-ge710.0.rd.ph.cox.net (68.1.0.165) 37.966 ms 38.230 ms 38.177 ms 11 ae-11-11.car2.Phoenix1.Level3.net (4.69.133.34) 40.238 ms 39.316 ms 38.729 ms 12 ae-4-4.ebr2.LosAngeles1.Level3.net (4.69.133.38) 59.087 ms 47.653 ms 50.736 ms 13 ae-92-92.csw4.LosAngeles1.Level3.net (4.69.137.30) 58.597 ms 48.153 ms 49.973 ms 14 ae-41-99.car1.LosAngeles1.Level3.net (4.68.20.195) 48.703 ms 48.172 ms ae-11-69.car1.LosAngeles1.Level3.net (4.68.20.3) 48.352 ms 15 * vnsc-bak.sys.gtei.net (4.2.2.2) 48.334 ms * Whois has started ... Whois Server Version 2.0 Domain names in the .com and .net domains can now be registered with many different competing registrars. Go to http://www.internic.net for detailed information. NS2.COLOMART.NET NS1.CDCHOSTNET.NET NS1.CDCHELP.NET NS2.KIRKLAND-NETWORKING-COMPUTERS.COM NS5.AXISCI.COM PMCWEB2.PMCMAP.COM DNS.INTEXID.COM DNS2.BETTERRESULTSINC.COM NS1.COLOMART.NET NS0.MOSEFOLDERS.COM FIREPASS.CARLGOTTLIEB.COM WWW.USAKKARAHANTICARET.COM NS1.DEADZEN.COM NS1.DOTRESOLVE.COM DNS1.QUILLHOST.COM NS4.SHIDES.COM AARON.PREPAIDCS.COM 9D9NP21.CDCHELP.COM NS6.COLOMART.NET DNS6.OURHAYESFAMILY.COM NS1.THUMBNAILDESIGNS.COM GODADDY-SUCKS.THEBELTRANFAMILY.COM NS2.THUMBNAILDESIGNS.COM NS1.OPERADORENLINEA.NET NS2.MYMINIONS.NET NS2.LEMMHOUSE.COM INTRANET.PREPAIDCS.COM NS1.MICHELMCARTHUR.COM NS.CDCHOSTNET.NET SUPPORT.PREPAIDCS.COM NS2.CDCHELP.COM NS2.CDCHOSTNET.NET CCXBR51.CDCHELP.COM NS0.MYVISTANCE.COM NS2.BARZARVIRTUALMEX.COM NS1.UNLIMITEDTREASURIES.COM NS4.COLOMART.NET NS1.IBOXTVTECH.COM NS1.STREAMIBOX.COM NS3.COLOMART.NET NS2.BOZAJESKI.COM WWW.READYFIGHT.COM NS5.COLOMART.NET DELETE2.HOSTINGIM.NET NS2.HYIPSERVER.NET WWW.KAHKAHATR.NET 4.2.2.2 Port Scan has started ... Port Scanning host: 4.2.2.2 Open TCP Port: 22 ssh Open TCP Port: 53 domain Open TCP Port: 111 sunrpc Open TCP Port:
Re: Format
On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 4:19 AM, Bryan O'Neal bon...@cornerstonehome.comwrote: On posting 1) Top posting means I don't have to scroll through a ton of crap to read the new message. However if I desire I can easily see the context by scrolling down. If I read this in digest mode where I only read the last message in a thread, then yha, bottom posting would make more sense. 2) Use a threaded email client that removes the extraneous copies of prior content and you never have to worry about this again. All messages are either top or bottom posted depending on how you order the thread. means I don't So it's a personal preference, is what you're saying basically? ~Ryan --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Best first programming language
I really like ruby as well but my experience has been if he's planning on pursuing some type of CS degree he'll definitely need to know java and C++ for 90% of the programming related classes, so that might be a better place to start. On Tue, 2009-05-19 at 08:21 -0700, Chris Gehlker wrote: On May 19, 2009, at 5:12 AM, Dennis Kibbe wrote: I searched the archive but didn't find a previous discussion about this. A friend who graduates from high school next week wants to take a summer course in programming. His goal is to become a business applications programmer. He asked me what language he should start with. I'd guess the prgramming landscape is changing with more services going into the cloud. Joseph, Hans, Charles I'm sure you have opinoins and I welcome anyone elses. My friend, Ian isn't on the list so I'll point him to gmane.org to follow the discussion. Ruby. --- Neither a man nor a crowd nor a nation can be trusted to act humanely or to think sanely under the influence of a great fear. -Bertrand Russell, philosopher, mathematician, author, Nobel laureate (1872-1970) --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Best first programming language
I would recommend learning C first. Learn some simple procedural programming then move to C++. I think this approach will make it easier to learn other languages. I would stay away from Java for the first language. Too much to learn and one can get lost in Java. Keith Smith --- On Tue, 5/19/09, Gerald Thurman nano...@gmail.com wrote: From: Gerald Thurman nano...@gmail.com Subject: Re: Best first programming language To: Main PLUG discussion list plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us Date: Tuesday, May 19, 2009, 6:36 AM Learn to use a Unix system at the command-line along with a text editor and start writing BASH program. The command-line provides exposure to the Unix philosophy, files/directories, options/arguments, variables (environment), I/O, meta-characters and documentation (via manpages). First programs are written in BASH. BASH supports structured programming (sequence, if, while, functions) and an introduction to data structures/algorithms via arrays. After BASH I'd move onto C (using Ritchie and Kernighan for the text) with extensive coverage of the STDC Library. From this point there are numerous forks in the road. The hello, world program writtin in BASH. $ echo hello, world ENTER -Inline Attachment Follows- --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Best first programming language
On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 5:12 AM, Dennis Kibbe denn...@li3-188.members.linode.com wrote: I searched the archive but didn't find a previous discussion about this. A friend who graduates from high school next week wants to take a summer course in programming. His goal is to become a business applications programmer. He asked me what language he should start with. I'd guess the prgramming landscape is changing with more services going into the cloud. According to some of the recent studies from the IEEE Computer Society I've read, Java is still king of business application development (.NET also ranks highly). So, for that specific goal I would recommend Java, for its market utility as well as the fact that its a nice sandbox'd and very object oriented language. I'd ask what sort of company he would like to work for though, as well-established companies tend to go with languages and technologies made by well-established companies and/or stuff from the 70s. Smaller companies, startups, consulting shops, etc. tend to lean more towards PHP, Ruby, etc. -- david [.dh] huerta haystackproject.com --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: List of Command Line Tools
I used to annoy my admins in school because i was the monster of screen abuse on that server. On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 11:04 PM, Bryan O'Neal bon...@cornerstonehome.com wrote: I'll be honest I have been reading this and going oh yha, that is a good one but I have never heard of screen until now http://www.manpagez.com/man/1/screen/ -Original Message- From: plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us [mailto:plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us] On Behalf Of Matrix Mole Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2009 10:06 AM To: Main PLUG discussion list Subject: Re: List of Command Line Tools I am surprised, with all these great command line tools that have been mentioned no one has yet to mention screen, an almost vital component in my toolbox for command line usage. Other programs I use that I don't believe I've seen mentioned: rtorrent - Torrents mcabber - Jabber tool (connected to gchat) uudeview - used to decode binary files from newgroups I've tried both tin and slrn for newsgroup reading, both work great for text, but for some reason seem to fail at binary newgroup usage in my opinion (been over a year since I used newsgroups though so couldn't say off the top of my head why now). I've found nget works great for pure binaries though. I've been trying to find a really good imap based command line email client that blends almost perfectly with gmail and it's inability to accurately implement imap according to the RFCs (basically something that does similar to thunderbird but via command line instead). I've tried mutt, but it generated extra emails whenever I send for some reason (they appear in my inbox as replies of my email for some reason, causing unnecessary clutter). --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss -- A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you from rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button. Stephen --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Format
really the top post vs bottom post is a personal prefrence. I like top posted email, personally it means i can get to their response, and if I am lost i have an email thread to get back to. does not mean i cannot understand the logic of a bottom post it just means its my preference... On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 8:51 AM, Ryan Rix phrkonale...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 4:19 AM, Bryan O'Neal bon...@cornerstonehome.com wrote: On posting 1) Top posting means I don't have to scroll through a ton of crap to read the new message. However if I desire I can easily see the context by scrolling down. Â If I read this in digest mode where I only read the last message in a thread, then yha, bottom posting would make more sense. 2) Use a threaded email client that removes the extraneous copies of prior content and you never have to worry about this again. All messages are either top or bottom posted depending on how you order the thread. means I don't So it's a personal preference, is what you're saying basically? ~Ryan --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss -- A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you from rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button. Stephen --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Best first programming language
On May 19, 2009, at 8:51 AM, Paul Mooring wrote: I really like ruby as well but my experience has been if he's planning on pursuing some type of CS degree he'll definitely need to know java and C++ for 90% of the programming related classes, so that might be a better place to start. Here was my reasoning. In his freshman year he is going to have to take a survey course that will touch on C, C++, Java and Scheme. At some schools it may be C, C++, prolog and scheme. In his sophomore year he is going to have to take algorithms. In both these courses he will be expected to turn in pseudocode first followed by a working program. Now when I started my formal comp-sci education I already had experience in several languages but I found that it was very easy to write pseudocode that was very close to ruby or actually was ruby. Then it was very easy to translate the ruby into the target language because I had a working ruby implementation sitting in front of me. I don't know if there is any other language that lends itself to a C++, approach to a problem or to a scheme approach to a problem the ay ruby does. In the algorithms classes I literally turned in the same file for the pseudocode part of the assignment and for the executable part. The TAs who did the grading knew perfectly well what I was doing but they gave me good grades. TAs tend to like ruby. The ruby community was also very helpful and it was full of people who knew any given language. -- Right now I'm having amnesia and deja vu at the same time. I think I've forgotten this before. -Steven Wright, comedian (b. 1955) --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Best first programming language
just from my experience the bigger languages for business apps are Visual Basic PHP Java c/c++ ASP On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 5:12 AM, Dennis Kibbe denn...@li3-188.members.linode.com wrote: I searched the archive but didn't find a previous discussion about this. A friend who graduates from high school next week wants to take a summer course in programming. His goal is to become a business applications programmer. He asked me what language he should start with. I'd guess the prgramming landscape is changing with more services going into the cloud. Joseph, Hans, Charles I'm sure you have opinoins and I welcome anyone elses. My friend, Ian isn't on the list so I'll point him to gmane.org to follow the discussion. dennisk -- Free Software, Free Society Free Software Foundation --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss -- A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you from rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button. Stephen --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: OT: Facebook in English (Pirate)
On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 9:39 AM, Stephen cryptwo...@gmail.com wrote: you should have saved this for a timely release on talk like a pirate day. but cool none the less. Yargh, Me hearties felt the best time to be raidin' thee PLUG list was now. Lots of arghs, Ryan On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 5:26 PM, Ryan Rix phrkonale...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, Didn't know if anyone knows about this (Tuna does) but Facebook lists English (Pirate) as a supported language http://twitter.com/phrkonaleash/status/1841770685 More awesome than Google's Klingon and Bork Bork bork simply because it affects the ENTIRE site except third party applications (even the Java photo uploader usese it. :) Ye matey, Ryan -- A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you from rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button. Stephen --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discusshttp://lists.plug.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss -- Thanks and best regards, Ryan Rix TamsPalm - The PalmOS Blog (623)-239-1103 -- Grand Central, baby! Jasmine Bowden - Class of 2009, Marc Rasmussen - Class of 2008, Erica Sheffey - Class of 2009, Rest in peace. --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Best first programming language
Hey As a current comp sci student they should get really used to uml design and pseudo code more simply because there is more to a language than coding. Java and c++ are similar but what took me the longest going to java from c++ was designing classes and seeing their relationship. But as other people say those languages are great. Now if they are going to computer science than the best choice will java because the first two semesters will be java. Cse 240 is the class where they will learn c++ scheme, prolog, etc and the professor is always there for help especially nakamura at asu. --Original Message-- From: Chris Gehlker Sender: plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To: Main PLUG discussion list ReplyTo: Main PLUG discussion list Subject: Re: Best first programming language Sent: May 19, 2009 9:50 AM On May 19, 2009, at 8:51 AM, Paul Mooring wrote: I really like ruby as well but my experience has been if he's planning on pursuing some type of CS degree he'll definitely need to know java and C++ for 90% of the programming related classes, so that might be a better place to start. Here was my reasoning. In his freshman year he is going to have to take a survey course that will touch on C, C++, Java and Scheme. At some schools it may be C, C++, prolog and scheme. In his sophomore year he is going to have to take algorithms. In both these courses he will be expected to turn in pseudocode first followed by a working program. Now when I started my formal comp-sci education I already had experience in several languages but I found that it was very easy to write pseudocode that was very close to ruby or actually was ruby. Then it was very easy to translate the ruby into the target language because I had a working ruby implementation sitting in front of me. I don't know if there is any other language that lends itself to a C++, approach to a problem or to a scheme approach to a problem the ay ruby does. In the algorithms classes I literally turned in the same file for the pseudocode part of the assignment and for the executable part. The TAs who did the grading knew perfectly well what I was doing but they gave me good grades. TAs tend to like ruby. The ruby community was also very helpful and it was full of people who knew any given language. -- Right now I'm having amnesia and deja vu at the same time. I think I've forgotten this before. -Steven Wright, comedian (b. 1955) --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Best first programming language
I agree with Kieth. It has been at least 10 years since I wrote any code. I learned using Pascal and C and then moved to C++ and Java. I think C, Pascal, or Ada will all teach the programming skills needed before moving forward to OO languages. C to me seems the most relavent. Gilbert I would recommend learning C first. Learn some simple procedural programming then move to C++. I think this approach will make it easier to learn other languages. I would stay away from Java for the first language. Too much to learn and one can get lost in Java. Keith Smith --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Best professional WEB site tool out there...
From: keith smith klsmith2...@yahoo.com --- On Tue, 5/19/09, JD Austin j...@twingeckos.com wrote: To make a professional looking WEB site with minimum effort and maximum flexibility. A (sort of) knowledgeable person kick-starts the site and then hands maintenance and minor upgrades to monkeys. If this is how you do it, it'll eventually look like the whole thing was put together by monkeys. Also, the requirements given are kind of sparse. How frequently will this be updated? How many people are doing the updating? What's the purpose of the site? Details Count, and you've provided minimal info here. Joomla, Drupal Drupal really hits the DB hard. How much traffic is this thing going to get? WordPress allows one to drop a template into a directory and go into the control panel and activate it. WordPress allows for plugins and they work the same way as templates, just drop in the right directory and activate wordpress works (heck, I use it), but the themes available may have odd warts in them. It might not work as well as you want if you have a ton of authors. There are spamming bastards out there who inject crap into the comments section of any wordpress site they find, so you have to deal with that as well. There are multiple ways to do that, of course. There is a learning curve with all of these. Yep. -- Matt G / Dances With Crows The Crow202 Blog: http://crow202.org/wordpress/ There is no Darkness in Eternity/But only Light too dim for us to see --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Best professional WEB site tool out there...
hire/barter with a designer? On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 12:29 PM, Matt Graham danceswithcr...@usa.netwrote: From: keith smith klsmith2...@yahoo.com --- On Tue, 5/19/09, JD Austin j...@twingeckos.com wrote: To make a professional looking WEB site with minimum effort and maximum flexibility. A (sort of) knowledgeable person kick-starts the site and then hands maintenance and minor upgrades to monkeys. If this is how you do it, it'll eventually look like the whole thing was put together by monkeys. Also, the requirements given are kind of sparse. How frequently will this be updated? How many people are doing the updating? What's the purpose of the site? Details Count, and you've provided minimal info here. Joomla, Drupal Drupal really hits the DB hard. How much traffic is this thing going to get? WordPress allows one to drop a template into a directory and go into the control panel and activate it. WordPress allows for plugins and they work the same way as templates, just drop in the right directory and activate wordpress works (heck, I use it), but the themes available may have odd warts in them. It might not work as well as you want if you have a ton of authors. There are spamming bastards out there who inject crap into the comments section of any wordpress site they find, so you have to deal with that as well. There are multiple ways to do that, of course. There is a learning curve with all of these. Yep. -- Matt G / Dances With Crows The Crow202 Blog: http://crow202.org/wordpress/ There is no Darkness in Eternity/But only Light too dim for us to see --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Best professional WEB site tool out there...
--- On Tue, 5/19/09, Matt Graham danceswithcr...@usa.net wrote: From: Matt Graham danceswithcr...@usa.net Subject: Re: Best professional WEB site tool out there... To: Main PLUG discussion list plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us Date: Tuesday, May 19, 2009, 12:29 PM From: keith smith klsmith2...@yahoo.com --- On Tue, 5/19/09, JD Austin j...@twingeckos.com wrote: To make a professional looking WEB site with minimum effort and maximum flexibility. A (sort of) knowledgeable person kick-starts the site and then hands maintenance and minor upgrades to monkeys. If this is how you do it, it'll eventually look like the whole thing was put together by monkeys. Also, the requirements given are kind of sparse. How frequently will this be updated? How many people are doing the updating? What's the purpose of the site? Details Count, and you've provided minimal info here. Joomla, Drupal Drupal really hits the DB hard. How much traffic is this thing going to get? WordPress allows one to drop a template into a directory and go into the control panel and activate it. WordPress allows for plugins and they work the same way as templates, just drop in the right directory and activate wordpress works (heck, I use it), but the themes available may have odd warts in them. It might not work as well as you want if you have a ton of authors. That is a good point. According to their documentation they say there is a performance degradation if you start your permalink with the postname or category name. This implies the WordPress engine is flowed. It implies that there is an inefficiency in the way posts are retrieved and this inefficiency is multiplied if you do not use a numeric field to start the permalink. WordPress falls short in the SEO area because of this and a few other short comings. However some if not all of the SEO short comings seen to be less relevant because it seems the search engines like WordPress and may be giving blogs a preference over non-blog sites, possibly because they are web 2.0. This point is hard to support though, it is just a theory. Keith There are spamming bastards out there who inject crap into the comments section of any wordpress site they find, so you have to deal with that as well. There are multiple ways to do that, of course. There is a learning curve with all of these. Yep. -- Matt G / Dances With Crows The Crow202 Blog: http://crow202.org/wordpress/ There is no Darkness in Eternity/But only Light too dim for us to see --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: List of Command Line Tools
I have an admin that loves to open bunches of screen sessions and leave them open forever. This eventually kills the box, obviously. Screen is a great tool that does not in any way prevent people from doing goofy things. On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 9:42 AM, Stephen cryptwo...@gmail.com wrote: I used to annoy my admins in school because i was the monster of screen abuse on that server. On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 11:04 PM, Bryan O'Neal bon...@cornerstonehome.com wrote: I'll be honest I have been reading this and going oh yha, that is a good one but I have never heard of screen until now http://www.manpagez.com/man/1/screen/ -Original Message- From: plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us [mailto:plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us] On Behalf Of Matrix Mole Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2009 10:06 AM To: Main PLUG discussion list Subject: Re: List of Command Line Tools I am surprised, with all these great command line tools that have been mentioned no one has yet to mention screen, an almost vital component in my toolbox for command line usage. Other programs I use that I don't believe I've seen mentioned: rtorrent - Torrents mcabber - Jabber tool (connected to gchat) uudeview - used to decode binary files from newgroups I've tried both tin and slrn for newsgroup reading, both work great for text, but for some reason seem to fail at binary newgroup usage in my opinion (been over a year since I used newsgroups though so couldn't say off the top of my head why now). I've found nget works great for pure binaries though. I've been trying to find a really good imap based command line email client that blends almost perfectly with gmail and it's inability to accurately implement imap according to the RFCs (basically something that does similar to thunderbird but via command line instead). I've tried mutt, but it generated extra emails whenever I send for some reason (they appear in my inbox as replies of my email for some reason, causing unnecessary clutter). --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss -- A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you from rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button. Stephen --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss -- James McPhee jmc...@gmail.com --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Best first programming language
I'd start with Java. * Starting with C teaches too many bad habits. I've spent more time with C programmers breaking bad habits than any other strongly-typed language. * Starting with C++ is like starting with C, except there is 100 times more to learn before you're productive, and 10 times more bad habits if you haven't learned good Object Oriented Design first. * CS schools used to start everyone in Pascal, because it teaches structured programming very well and strongly discourages bad habits. C was taught AFTER the students, presumably, learn good structured programming habits in Pascal. With the rise of Object Oriented programming, this needed to change. * Current curricula usually start with Java for the same reason they used to start with Pascal. Java teaches good Object Oriented Development habits with strong discouragement for bad habits (although there are still a few areas where Java can teach bad habits, particularly for Swing programming). * Starting with a scripting language (like Python, Ruby, Perl, PHP, Javascript, etc...) is like learning to drive trucks using a motorcycle. The rules are COMPLETELY different, and you'll pick up a lot of bad habits you may have difficulty unlearning later. Also, these languages are generally frowned upon in business applications, so it's a long twisty route to where the student wants to get. * C# forces a dependency on proprietary subsystems and patented API's. It's a nice language, but most of the jobs using it are really ASP jobs using the C# syntax as a scripting engine. It's sort of like writing JSP pages with Java, you don't really use the language well, and you learn absolutely TERRIBLE bad programming techniques because the whole system architecture for the typical ASP site is a Frankenstein's Monster twisting of good design principles. ASP (and JSP) can be useful tools (I use them myself in almost all web-based multi-tier applications), but the vast majority of uses I've seen abuse the technology to create 70's style monolithic applications because the software designer/architect simply doesn't know (or doesn't care) how to create an effective multi-tier system for the web. * Visual Basic is widely used in business simply because there are a ton of cheap, and low-skill, programmers available who ONLY know VB (many great programmers also know VB, but they tend not to be cheap). Most VB projects are done in VB because they have to be done very quickly, quality doesn't matter, and it has to be cheap. * Ada is a great language to learn structured procedural programming, but there's very little use for it, and the industry has mostly moved forward to Object Oriented design, so procedural programming is being squeezed into smaller and smaller niches (mostly very low-level code in the embedded or O/S space, sometimes packaged applications still use procedural code, but that's getting rare). * If you want to torture yourself working on Mainframes in dark cramped dilbertian cubicles, learn COBOL, it's valued mostly because very few people are learning it, but millions of lines of legacy code is still in use. * If you're really interested in learning just procedural programming (C, Ada, etc...), start with Pascal, and then learn C. You'll learn how to program well before having to deal with the much greater complexity of C. * All the minority languages (BASIC, scheme, lisp, smalltalk, eiffel, D, awk, snobol, icon, forth, etc...) make sense as languages to learn thoroughly once you've actually mastered at least 3 major languages (Java then C++; then C#, Ruby, Python, or Javascript). All of the above is my opinion only, and is a VERY brief summary, no offense is intended and many statements are broad generalities about the language; not intended to depict any particular person or group. Hope that helps. Dennis Kibbe wrote: I searched the archive but didn't find a previous discussion about this. A friend who graduates from high school next week wants to take a summer course in programming. His goal is to become a business applications programmer. He asked me what language he should start with. I'd guess the prgramming landscape is changing with more services going into the cloud. Joseph, Hans, Charles I'm sure you have opinoins and I welcome anyone elses. My friend, Ian isn't on the list so I'll point him to gmane.org to follow the discussion. dennisk signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: info on a DNS
Why does whois say that this is a company in Colorado yet traceroute lists a server in LosAngles? On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 12:02 PM, Ryan Rix phrkonale...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 8:45 AM, Chris Gehlker canyon...@mac.com wrote: On May 19, 2009, at 8:31 AM, Eric Shubert wrote: Nice output, Chris. Care to share what created it? Seems like it would take all of five seconds to script in bash... -- Thanks and best regards, Ryan Rix TamsPalm - The PalmOS Blog (623)-239-1103 -- Grand Central, baby! Jasmine Bowden - Class of 2009, Marc Rasmussen - Class of 2008, Erica Sheffey - Class of 2009, Rest in peace. --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss -- :-)~MIKE~(-: --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Best professional WEB site tool out there...
On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 7:44 AM, kitepi...@kitepilot.com kitepi...@kitepilot.com wrote: Hello collective intelligence: This is the simple plan: To make a professional looking WEB site with minimum effort and maximum flexibility. It is broken down as: A (sort of) knowledgeable person kick-starts the site and then handles maintenance and minor upgrades to monkeys. What's the tool out there that will allow a non-technical person to maintain most of a WEB site with the least amount of pain? I've always been a bit partial to Movable Type. Kevin -- ke...@kevinspencer.org --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: info on a DNS
Because the corporate offices are separate from the data center. It's not all that unusual. Los Angeles is a peering point for the Internet backbone and you want to be as close to that as possible. The whois information is just who the administrative contact is and not the physical location of the system. Sent from my iPhone On May 19, 2009, at 2:18 PM, mike havens bmi...@gmail.com wrote: Why does whois say that this is a company in Colorado yet traceroute lists a server in LosAngles? On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 12:02 PM, Ryan Rix phrkonale...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 8:45 AM, Chris Gehlker canyon...@mac.com wrote: On May 19, 2009, at 8:31 AM, Eric Shubert wrote: Nice output, Chris. Care to share what created it? Seems like it would take all of five seconds to script in bash... -- Thanks and best regards, Ryan Rix TamsPalm - The PalmOS Blog (623)-239-1103 -- Grand Central, baby! Jasmine Bowden - Class of 2009, Marc Rasmussen - Class of 2008, Erica Sheffey - Class of 2009, Rest in peace. --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss -- :-)~MIKE~(-: --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: OT: Most fun in Arizona?
On Sat, May 16, 2009 at 11:45 AM, Josef Lowder j...@actionline.com wrote: What are the most fun things to do in Arizona? One of the best OT threads I've read in a while. Nice list and I'll certainly be keeping it handy. Kevin. -- ke...@kevinspencer.org --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
RE: HTTP Access Logging and apology to Hans
No harm, I understand how hard it is to read emotions from text, my heart wrenches from the pain of typing these words. LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL :-) _ From: plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us [mailto:plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us] On Behalf Of mike havens Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 3:40 AM To: Main PLUG discussion list Subject: Re: HTTP Access Logging and apology to Hans I didn't see the LOL. Sorry. On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 10:36 PM, Bob Elzer bob.el...@gmail.com wrote: I was trying to be funny, hence the LOL If it wasn't taken that way I apologize. _ From: plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us [mailto:plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us] On Behalf Of mike havens Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 4:11 PM To: Main PLUG discussion list Subject: Re: HTTP Access Logging and apology to Hans that sounds mean, BOB. If you were trying to sound funny it didn't work. further: Hans, I re-read my comment concerning the picture and asking if that was you and realized it might be misconstrued as an insult. I did not mean it that way. Sorry. On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 3:53 PM, keith smith klsmith2...@yahoo.com wrote: Thanks for your kindness! Keith Smith --- On Mon, 5/18/09, Craig White craigwh...@azapple.com wrote: From: Craig White craigwh...@azapple.com Subject: Re: HTTP Access Logging To: Main PLUG discussion list plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us Date: Monday, May 18, 2009, 12:50 PM On Mon, 2009-05-18 at 11:23 -0700, keith smith wrote: Sorry for the confusion. I was thinking it was June not may. Everything is there. Silly me! it feels like June outside Craig -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss -- :-)~MIKE~(-: --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss -- :-)~MIKE~(-: --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: info on a DNS
that explains it! gracias! On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 5:34 PM, Jon M. Hanson j...@the-hansons-az.netwrote: Because the corporate offices are separate from the data center. It's not all that unusual. Los Angeles is a peering point for the Internet backbone and you want to be as close to that as possible. The whois information is just who the administrative contact is and not the physical location of the system. Sent from my iPhone On May 19, 2009, at 2:18 PM, mike havens bmi...@gmail.com wrote: Why does whois say that this is a company in Colorado yet traceroute lists a server in LosAngles? On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 12:02 PM, Ryan Rix phrkonale...@gmail.com phrkonale...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 8:45 AM, Chris Gehlker canyon...@mac.com canyon...@mac.com wrote: On May 19, 2009, at 8:31 AM, Eric Shubert wrote: Nice output, Chris. Care to share what created it? Seems like it would take all of five seconds to script in bash... -- Thanks and best regards, Ryan Rix TamsPalm - The PalmOS Blog (623)-239-1103 -- Grand Central, baby! Jasmine Bowden - Class of 2009, Marc Rasmussen - Class of 2008, Erica Sheffey - Class of 2009, Rest in peace. --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss -- :-)~MIKE~(-: --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss -- :-)~MIKE~(-: --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: List of Command Line Tools
On Tue, 19 May 2009, James Mcphee wrote: I have an admin that loves to open bunches of screen sessions and leave them open forever. This eventually kills the box, obviously. Screen is a great tool that does not in any way prevent people from doing goofy things. Why should the application perform a task which ulimit can be configured to address, if there is an abuse? ... and a 'sysadmin' who does such needs after being appraised of the issue, not to be trusted with admin rights. Again the solution is not in the space of the tool, but in the space of the management of the affected system ;) -- Russ herrold --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
RE: Best first programming language
For business apps, I suggest COBOL, COmmon Business-Oriented Language. Oh wait, we're not in the 80's anymore. I learned PERL for the O'Reilly book Programming Perl, also known as the Camel book because of the picture of the camel on the cover. O'Reilly has many books on Perl and all are helpful. It's very helpful to know the capabilities of the shell you are using, to determine whether you need to write a quick script or a full blown program. O'Reilly has books on shells to. (I don't work for O'Reilly, but I'm sounding like a commercial) But even after you settle on a language, then you need to learn about all the API's (application programming interfaces) these are libraries of routines to help the programmer get his work done faster. So lets say you want to learn C or C++, depending on whether you use linux/unix, or windows, there may be different API to write to the screen, or read from a device more then just your basic I/O. -Original Message- From: plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us [mailto:plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us] On Behalf Of Dennis Kibbe Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 5:13 AM To: Main PLUG discussion list Subject: Best first programming language I searched the archive but didn't find a previous discussion about this. A friend who graduates from high school next week wants to take a summer course in programming. His goal is to become a business applications programmer. He asked me what language he should start with. I'd guess the prgramming landscape is changing with more services going into the cloud. Joseph, Hans, Charles I'm sure you have opinoins and I welcome anyone elses. My friend, Ian isn't on the list so I'll point him to gmane.org to follow the discussion. dennisk -- Free Software, Free Society Free Software Foundation --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: List of Command Line Tools
Great tools usually are the ones that let users do goofy things without restraint Its when people start needing the tool to nerf itself I get grumpy On 5/19/09, James Mcphee jmc...@gmail.com wrote: I have an admin that loves to open bunches of screen sessions and leave them open forever. This eventually kills the box, obviously. Screen is a great tool that does not in any way prevent people from doing goofy things. On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 9:42 AM, Stephen cryptwo...@gmail.com wrote: I used to annoy my admins in school because i was the monster of screen abuse on that server. On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 11:04 PM, Bryan O'Neal bon...@cornerstonehome.com wrote: I'll be honest I have been reading this and going oh yha, that is a good one but I have never heard of screen until now http://www.manpagez.com/man/1/screen/ -Original Message- From: plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us [mailto:plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us] On Behalf Of Matrix Mole Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2009 10:06 AM To: Main PLUG discussion list Subject: Re: List of Command Line Tools I am surprised, with all these great command line tools that have been mentioned no one has yet to mention screen, an almost vital component in my toolbox for command line usage. Other programs I use that I don't believe I've seen mentioned: rtorrent - Torrents mcabber - Jabber tool (connected to gchat) uudeview - used to decode binary files from newgroups I've tried both tin and slrn for newsgroup reading, both work great for text, but for some reason seem to fail at binary newgroup usage in my opinion (been over a year since I used newsgroups though so couldn't say off the top of my head why now). I've found nget works great for pure binaries though. I've been trying to find a really good imap based command line email client that blends almost perfectly with gmail and it's inability to accurately implement imap according to the RFCs (basically something that does similar to thunderbird but via command line instead). I've tried mutt, but it generated extra emails whenever I send for some reason (they appear in my inbox as replies of my email for some reason, causing unnecessary clutter). --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss -- A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you from rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button. Stephen --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss -- James McPhee jmc...@gmail.com -- Sent from my mobile device A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you from rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button. Stephen --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Best first programming language
I can't believe no one has mentioned assembly! On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 3:18 PM, Bob Elzer bob.el...@gmail.com wrote: For business apps, I suggest COBOL, COmmon Business-Oriented Language. Oh wait, we're not in the 80's anymore. I learned PERL for the O'Reilly book Programming Perl, also known as the Camel book because of the picture of the camel on the cover. O'Reilly has many books on Perl and all are helpful. It's very helpful to know the capabilities of the shell you are using, to determine whether you need to write a quick script or a full blown program. O'Reilly has books on shells to. (I don't work for O'Reilly, but I'm sounding like a commercial) But even after you settle on a language, then you need to learn about all the API's (application programming interfaces) these are libraries of routines to help the programmer get his work done faster. So lets say you want to learn C or C++, depending on whether you use linux/unix, or windows, there may be different API to write to the screen, or read from a device more then just your basic I/O. -Original Message- From: plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us [mailto:plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us] On Behalf Of Dennis Kibbe Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 5:13 AM To: Main PLUG discussion list Subject: Best first programming language I searched the archive but didn't find a previous discussion about this. A friend who graduates from high school next week wants to take a summer course in programming. His goal is to become a business applications programmer. He asked me what language he should start with. I'd guess the prgramming landscape is changing with more services going into the cloud. Joseph, Hans, Charles I'm sure you have opinoins and I welcome anyone elses. My friend, Ian isn't on the list so I'll point him to gmane.org to follow the discussion. dennisk -- Free Software, Free Society Free Software Foundation --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
RE: Best first programming language
He said business applications, not device drivers. LOL _ From: plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us [mailto:plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us] On Behalf Of Eric Cope Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 3:40 PM To: Main PLUG discussion list Subject: Re: Best first programming language I can't believe no one has mentioned assembly! On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 3:18 PM, Bob Elzer bob.el...@gmail.com wrote: For business apps, I suggest COBOL, COmmon Business-Oriented Language. Oh wait, we're not in the 80's anymore. I learned PERL for the O'Reilly book Programming Perl, also known as the Camel book because of the picture of the camel on the cover. O'Reilly has many books on Perl and all are helpful. It's very helpful to know the capabilities of the shell you are using, to determine whether you need to write a quick script or a full blown program. O'Reilly has books on shells to. (I don't work for O'Reilly, but I'm sounding like a commercial) But even after you settle on a language, then you need to learn about all the API's (application programming interfaces) these are libraries of routines to help the programmer get his work done faster. So lets say you want to learn C or C++, depending on whether you use linux/unix, or windows, there may be different API to write to the screen, or read from a device more then just your basic I/O. -Original Message- From: plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us [mailto:plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us] On Behalf Of Dennis Kibbe Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 5:13 AM To: Main PLUG discussion list Subject: Best first programming language I searched the archive but didn't find a previous discussion about this. A friend who graduates from high school next week wants to take a summer course in programming. His goal is to become a business applications programmer. He asked me what language he should start with. I'd guess the prgramming landscape is changing with more services going into the cloud. Joseph, Hans, Charles I'm sure you have opinoins and I welcome anyone elses. My friend, Ian isn't on the list so I'll point him to gmane.org to follow the discussion. dennisk -- Free Software, Free Society Free Software Foundation --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: OT: [Computerworld:] Cisco takes aim at WiMax
Full disclosure: I work for Intel but not in our Wireless Group. On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 5:03 PM, Joseph Sinclair plug-discuss...@stcaz.netwrote: There are some substantial differences between WiMax and WiFi. Agreed. WiFi is 802.11 (b,a,g,n) certified by the WiFi Alliance ( http://www.wi-fi.org/ ) WiMAX is 802.16 (e or d) certified by WiMAX Forum ( http://www.wimaxforum.org/ ) But there are also some basic similarities. Both are data communications standards that directly support IPv4 and IPv6. Both bring native IPv4/IPV6 to consumers via radio frequency (i.e., RF, radio, wireless). Only WiMAX does direct IPv4/IPv6 across large distances (i.e. WANs) using RF. LTE brings cellular RF over large distances closer to IPv4/IPv6 but it's still not a pure data communications standard since it has some genetic inheritance of legacy cellular designs and specifications. WiMAX and current celluar services are complementary. WiMAX and LTE are not so complementary due to basic overlaps in tech and in competing business. My elevator pitch would be: Both LTE and WiMAX bring data to RF WANs but LTE is born of cellular (with inheritance) and WiMAX is born of Ethernet/IPv4/IPV6 (with inheritance). The Muni WiFi nets are about providing 802.11 throughout an area. Considering the limited range of the 2.4GHz band used, it's fairly difficult and there tend to be a lot of small dead zones. Not to mention that 802.11 doesn't include roaming, meshing, robust security (e.g., authentication, identification, confidentiality) that are needed for continuous contiguous wide area coverage and secure access. http://www.wimaxmaps.org/ WiMax is a wide-area technology in a completely different (and fully licensed) band. WiMax placements cannot be done by consumers because you have to pay a lot of money for the location-specific license and meet FCC siting requirements. ClearWire holds most (about $3 billion worth transferred from Sprint) of the WiMax licenses in the US. Right now the carriers own the transport part of the WiMAX equation. That doesn't rule out the ability of other businesses from providing the backend now offered (or planned) by carriers. Small groups might be able to create smaller WiMAX (or 802.16) clouds that may or may not mesh w/ the carriers. Wireless Phoenix (http://www.wireless-phoenix.com/) http://www.wireless-phoenix.com/already offers private label WiMAX in Phoenix and other groups should be able to come up w/ various business models leveraging the new technology including free (as in speech and as in beer). That's assuming WiMAX succeeds as a technology... :-) Some folks are already looking into open sourcing the client side of the technology: http://www.linuxwimax.org/Home http://www.openclovis.org/project-poll/project-idea-building-wimax-wireless-broadband-802-16e-product-on-top-of-atca-platform http://www.embeddedrelated.com/usenet/embedded/show/79241-1.php http://www.electronicsweekly.com/blogs/open-source-linux/2009/02/linux-and-wimax-become-friends---finally.html WiMax is more of a competitor to 3G cellular. Some have put it forward as the 4G cellular standard, but it's not clear what will happen there, since Sprint and Intel prefer WiMax, but NGMN chose LTE, and many carriers don't care which is used, as long as everyone uses the same radio standard. I don't see WiMAX directly competing w/ 3G. WiMAX and current 3G celluar services are complementary (data vs cellular). WiMAX and LTE are not so complementary due to tech overlaps (small items) and business overlaps (large items). ymmv, C.G. -- powerofpri...@gmail.com Carlos Macedo Gomes _sic itur ad astra_ http://claimid.com/cmgomes --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
