Re: Certifications as a means of gaining knowlage

[Steve Phariss]

I would be interested in any group study time as well.  I am at 35th ave and
Peoria.

Steve Phariss
RHCT working on getting RHCE this year.

On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 8:17 AM, Taylor, Kaia wrote:

>  Hey Larry,
>
> I agree with Lisa's advice in her previous post.  I think rhce is
> respected.  I'd like to try again for my rhce.  I only got rhct when I did
> the rhce exam, because in the second part of the exam there is a lot of work
> to do quickly, and there's not a lot of spare time to read through docs,
> especially when setting up and testing iptables.
>
> I'd gladly hold or attend study sessions with the goal of setting up linux
> services & locking down the system in an increasingly speedy way, as that
> would be the key (for me) to succeeding next time.  Maybe our fist one can
> piggyback on the installfest, as there seems to be room at UAT for a few
> more people to install and re-install linux?
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Kaia Taylor
>
>
> DevSA  group  --  tis-dco-devsa – jumpword devsa
>
> http://dco-sps.schwab.com/sites/devsa/welcome
> desk 602-977-5157
> pager 6025785...@messaging.sprintpcs.com or white 
> pages
> All e-mail sent to or from this address will be received by the Charles
> Schwab corporate e-mail system and is subject to archival and review by
> someone other than the recipient.
>
>
>  --
> *From:* plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us [mailto:
> plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us] *On Behalf Of *Larry Lauer
> *Sent:* Sunday, June 28, 2009 7:01 PM
> *To:* 'Main PLUG discussion list'
> *Subject:* RE: Certifications as a means of gaining knowlage
>
>  I just realized that when I first sent this my phone didn’t reply to the
> list. Sorry David for the multiple copies.
>
>
>
> Hi all I have just been a list voyeur for awhile. I was wondering if others
> are pursuing any Linux certifications now and if there are any study groups
> -classes going that you may know of. Thanks.
>
>
>
> I also have collected over the years some certs from Novell, Cisco, sans,
> M$ It has cost a ton but I think that it has been worth it by getting me
> interviews and jobs. Now I want to focus on Linux and security more.
>
>
>
>  I think employers also see a certification as your potential to follow
> through with what you start and a basic understanding like David said.
>
>
>
> Enough of my rambling. Thanks.
>
>
>
> -Larry
>
> Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone with SprintSpeed
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us [mailto:
> plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us] *On Behalf Of *David Munson
> *Sent:* Sunday, June 28, 2009 4:15 PM
> *To:* Main PLUG discussion list
> *Subject:* Re: Certifications as a means of gaining knowlage
>
>
>
> Certifications can be useful for getting your foot in the door when you may
> not have the experience yet. Granted, most certifications say you should
> have X amount of time doing Y type of work, but I had very little experience
> with the subject matter when I passed the A+ and Network+ certifications.
> When I go after a certification, it's because I'm looking to get a handle on
> the basics for jobs related to it, and because it's something to point to
> when I talk to HR about my qualifications.
>
>
>
> Additionally, certifications SUGGEST that you have a certain level of
> knowledge about a set of topics. I can spend six months doing network
> support work and never learn a thing about fiber if I'm at a small business,
> but a Network+ certification SUGGESTS that I at least know the difference
> between SC and MTRJ connectors, as well as single-mode and multimode fiber.
>
>
>
> To put it in fewer words, certifications are good for covering the basics
> of a subject, and might get you an interview, but it's the actual experience
> that'll probably land you the job.
>
> On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 2:17 PM, Bryan O'Neal 
> wrote:
>
> I too do not believe certifications are worth much. With the exception of a
> selling point to customers who don't know better or to help lower your
> insurance premiums.  That said they CAN be a good path to focus your
> learning and gain knowledge however that knowledge is not usually worth more
> then a few months of intensive on the job training.
>
> On a side note I am mojor pet peve, in that I hate companies that requier
> certain certifications for emplyment... If I were to colect ever cert I have
> seen "requierd" for job I was otherwise well qualified for I would have to
> spend about two years and about $100K to obtain them. At which point I could
> get a few years of use and then have to repeat the process ;)
>
> If you want your people to have a prticuler cert you higher the person and
> make continued employment contengent on getting the cert.
>
> On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 6:49 AM, Lisa Kachold 
> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 10:33 PM,

Re: USB Live Ubuntu Persistence

[Joseph Sinclair]

Eric Shubert wrote:
> Eric Shubert wrote:
>> Dazed_75 wrote:
>>> Saturday I was helping Matthew create a Live Ubuntu USB stick.  We 
>>> succeeded but for some reason persistence was not working and I could 
>>> not figure out why.  I did the same thing here at home and persistence 
>>> works fine.  In fact, I think I know the answer now.  Mathew was using a 
>>> 16 GB flash drive and wanted the rest of the drive used for persistent 
>>> storage. 
>>>
>>> The problem was, I believe, that the flash drive was formatted for FAT32 
>>> which has a file size limit of 4GB.  It appears the utility to create 
>>> the LiveUSB ubuntu stick creates a special file to use for the "overlay" 
>>> (my term) file system that is merged onto the read only filesystem from 
>>> the Live image.  Since we were asking it to make a 14.4GB overlay file 
>>> on a FAT32 partition, that part of the install failed silently and 
>>> persistence was was working.
>>>
>>> Mathew, I believe there are several ways to resolve this with the 
>>> simplest being to only ask for 4GB of persistent storage.  The rest of 
>>> the stick should still be usable though you may find it handy to make 
>>> the rest a separate partition and mount it within the LiveUSB Ubuntu.  
>>> You should even be able to make the mount persistent.
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Dazed_75 a.k.a. Larry
>>>
>> That sounds like a possibility all right. TTBOMK though, FAT32 has a 2G 
>> file size limit. :(
>>
> 
> Now that I think of it though, are we confusing partition vs file sizes? 
> The 'overlay' partition would be what's over 2G, not a file. From what 
> I've seen of overlay filesystems, there are still going to be 
> independent files within the partition. It's not just one big file. As 
> such, I doubt this is the problem. As always, I could be wrong. I think 
> I was on that last post (except for the 2G part!).
> 
Most mixed live/persistent distros use a single file loopback mounted as the 
overlay filesystem (via overlayfs or unionfs), including IIRC Ubuntu live/USB.  
As such, the entire persistent partition is, indeed, limited to the *file* size 
limit of the host partition.
Most virtual machine systems have similar problems (which is one more reason 
why it's good to *not* put virtual disk files on systems using FAT or NTFS, 
poor windows users...).

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Re: USB Live Ubuntu Persistence

[Eric Shubert]

Dazed_75 wrote:
>  > That sounds like a possibility all right. TTBOMK though, FAT32
> has a 2G
>  > file size limit. :(
>  >
> 
> Now that I think of it though, are we confusing partition vs file sizes?
> The 'overlay' partition would be what's over 2G, not a file. From what
> I've seen of overlay filesystems, there are still going to be
> independent files within the partition. It's not just one big file. As
> such, I doubt this is the problem. As always, I could be wrong. I think
> I was on that last post (except for the 2G part!).
> 
> --
> -Eric 'shubes'
> 
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> 
> Actually, FAT32 is 4GB limit according to several sources.  Which 
> explains how I was able to put a DVD .iso on a FAT32, but not a FAT16 
> partition.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_Allocation_Table
> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314463
> http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc938937.aspx
> 
> -- 
> Dazed_75 a.k.a. Larry
> 

Thanks for correcting me, Larry. I don't know *where* I came up with 
that. Perhaps fat16 partition limit.

That wikipedia link is very good. Kinda weird that the max file size is 
4G on all 3 fat varieties, up to the partition size. So fat16 could 
handle a 4G file, except the partition can only be 2G. Go figure.

-- 
-Eric 'shubes'

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Re: USB Live Ubuntu Persistence

[Dazed_75]

>
> > That sounds like a possibility all right. TTBOMK though, FAT32 has a 2G
> > file size limit. :(
> >
>
> Now that I think of it though, are we confusing partition vs file sizes?
> The 'overlay' partition would be what's over 2G, not a file. From what
> I've seen of overlay filesystems, there are still going to be
> independent files within the partition. It's not just one big file. As
> such, I doubt this is the problem. As always, I could be wrong. I think
> I was on that last post (except for the 2G part!).
>
> --
> -Eric 'shubes'
>
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Actually, FAT32 is 4GB limit according to several sources.  Which explains
how I was able to put a DVD .iso on a FAT32, but not a FAT16 partition.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_Allocation_Table
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314463
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc938937.aspx

-- 
Dazed_75 a.k.a. Larry
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Re: Clustering

[Nadim Hoque]

Since u are using tesla I would suggest first that u put 4 gpus in each cluster 
and make sure you have at least a quad core each. If you are going with 
modeling applications than go with infiniband, but if you are running 
hpc/parallel computing stuff than u probably need only gigabit or 10 gb 
ethernet the reason being is that the gpus will need hours to compute. I hope 
this might help.  
Nadim Hoque
Cell: 480-518-6235
Address: 6302 West Kent Drive
Chandler, Arizona 85226
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile


-Original Message-
From: Eric Shubert 

Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 18:29:11 
To: 
Subject: Re: Clustering


I'm looking at clustering together a handful of hosts, each running dual 
nvidia tesla cards. Modeling applications of some sort. I honestly don't 
know much more than that.

Michael Butash wrote:
> You're probably talking infiniband switching, infiniband hba's,
> pci-e/htx interfaces, fiber channel disk arrays, etc.  Linux seems to
> support infiniband hba's reasonably well, and 10g 4x infiniband hba's
> tend to be cheap these days on ebay.  We're talking $100 used hba's for
> the nodes, and ~$1200 for a 12 port Cisco/Topspin switch.  I thought
> about buying some to play with, as it ends up cheaper than IP or Fiber
> channel technologies, yet can replace them all to some extents.
> 
> IB is quite versatile, emulating fiber-channel, IP network, or raw
> interrupt switching to a cpu and memory via different driver socket
> interface api's.  Cray always used a similar means to make theirs with
> proprietary north bridge and software, but IB is more of a standard now,
> enabling (relatively) cheap supercomputing on the fly with commodity
> hardware.  Well, hardware-wise at least...
> 
> So yeah, what apps are you talking about utilizing it?
> 
> -mb
> 
> 
> On Mon, 2009-06-29 at 13:47 -0700, Matt Graham wrote:
>> From: Eric Shubert 
>>> Has anyone here implemented any clusters?
>> I've only set one up, but I maintain the ones that my predecessors
>> set up.  It's not rocket science. 
>>
>>> Is any particular distro better or worse at clustering?
>> Not really.  Every distro has heartbeat/DRBD/LVS available.
>>
>>> Any pointers regarding clustering you'd like to share?
>> Define the problem you're trying to solve more rigorously than just
>> "clustering" first.  Do you want flailover between 2 boxes?  Do you
>> want a frontend box with N service-providing boxes behind it?  The
>> answers to that greatly affect what you will end up doing, as does
>> the question "What services is this cluster going to provide?"  
>>
>> Basically, all I can do is handwave without answers to "what services?"
>> and "how many machines?".
>>
> 


-- 
-Eric 'shubes'

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Re: Clustering

[Eric Shubert]

I'm looking at clustering together a handful of hosts, each running dual 
nvidia tesla cards. Modeling applications of some sort. I honestly don't 
know much more than that.

Michael Butash wrote:
> You're probably talking infiniband switching, infiniband hba's,
> pci-e/htx interfaces, fiber channel disk arrays, etc.  Linux seems to
> support infiniband hba's reasonably well, and 10g 4x infiniband hba's
> tend to be cheap these days on ebay.  We're talking $100 used hba's for
> the nodes, and ~$1200 for a 12 port Cisco/Topspin switch.  I thought
> about buying some to play with, as it ends up cheaper than IP or Fiber
> channel technologies, yet can replace them all to some extents.
> 
> IB is quite versatile, emulating fiber-channel, IP network, or raw
> interrupt switching to a cpu and memory via different driver socket
> interface api's.  Cray always used a similar means to make theirs with
> proprietary north bridge and software, but IB is more of a standard now,
> enabling (relatively) cheap supercomputing on the fly with commodity
> hardware.  Well, hardware-wise at least...
> 
> So yeah, what apps are you talking about utilizing it?
> 
> -mb
> 
> 
> On Mon, 2009-06-29 at 13:47 -0700, Matt Graham wrote:
>> From: Eric Shubert 
>>> Has anyone here implemented any clusters?
>> I've only set one up, but I maintain the ones that my predecessors
>> set up.  It's not rocket science. 
>>
>>> Is any particular distro better or worse at clustering?
>> Not really.  Every distro has heartbeat/DRBD/LVS available.
>>
>>> Any pointers regarding clustering you'd like to share?
>> Define the problem you're trying to solve more rigorously than just
>> "clustering" first.  Do you want flailover between 2 boxes?  Do you
>> want a frontend box with N service-providing boxes behind it?  The
>> answers to that greatly affect what you will end up doing, as does
>> the question "What services is this cluster going to provide?"  
>>
>> Basically, all I can do is handwave without answers to "what services?"
>> and "how many machines?".
>>
> 


-- 
-Eric 'shubes'

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Re: Clustering

[Michael Butash]

You're probably talking infiniband switching, infiniband hba's,
pci-e/htx interfaces, fiber channel disk arrays, etc.  Linux seems to
support infiniband hba's reasonably well, and 10g 4x infiniband hba's
tend to be cheap these days on ebay.  We're talking $100 used hba's for
the nodes, and ~$1200 for a 12 port Cisco/Topspin switch.  I thought
about buying some to play with, as it ends up cheaper than IP or Fiber
channel technologies, yet can replace them all to some extents.

IB is quite versatile, emulating fiber-channel, IP network, or raw
interrupt switching to a cpu and memory via different driver socket
interface api's.  Cray always used a similar means to make theirs with
proprietary north bridge and software, but IB is more of a standard now,
enabling (relatively) cheap supercomputing on the fly with commodity
hardware.  Well, hardware-wise at least...

So yeah, what apps are you talking about utilizing it?

-mb


On Mon, 2009-06-29 at 13:47 -0700, Matt Graham wrote:
> From: Eric Shubert 
> > Has anyone here implemented any clusters?
> 
> I've only set one up, but I maintain the ones that my predecessors
> set up.  It's not rocket science. 
> 
> > Is any particular distro better or worse at clustering?
> 
> Not really.  Every distro has heartbeat/DRBD/LVS available.
> 
> > Any pointers regarding clustering you'd like to share?
> 
> Define the problem you're trying to solve more rigorously than just
> "clustering" first.  Do you want flailover between 2 boxes?  Do you
> want a frontend box with N service-providing boxes behind it?  The
> answers to that greatly affect what you will end up doing, as does
> the question "What services is this cluster going to provide?"  
> 
> Basically, all I can do is handwave without answers to "what services?"
> and "how many machines?".
> 

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Re: Clustering

[Austin Godber]

Eric Shubert wrote:
> Has anyone here implemented any clusters?
> Is any particular distro better or worse at clustering?
> Any pointers regarding clustering you'd like to share?
>   
In my experience, the base distro doesn't matter much unless the apps 
you plan on running have specific requirements.

I have run a couple hundred node batch cluster (not much if any IPC on 
the jobs).  During the time I managed that system we used PBS Pro 
(Commercial IIRC, there is OpenPBS as an alternative), torque (free, 
open source), maui, and Moab(commercial).

The torque was pretty straight forward.  The general concept is you have 
a cluster manager that tracks resources (resource manager, like torque) 
and schedules jobs (like pbs_sched that comes with torque or maui/moab) 
and then each node has an agent that gets managed by that cluster 
manager.  Typically there is shared storage between nodes but that is 
not required.

http://www.clusterresources.com/products/torque-resource-manager.php
http://www.clusterresources.com/torquedocs21/
http://www.clusterresources.com/torquedocs21/a.ltorquequickstart.shtml


There were some other options we looked at and briefly tested.  But I 
was most fond of torque/maui combination IIRC.  Moab seemed to be 
overkill for our needs at the time.

Austin
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Re: USB Live Ubuntu Persistence

[Trent Shipley]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

I was looking into putting a DOS bootable partition on a USB memory
stick.  The recommended method seemed to start "put GRUB" on the USB
stick then ...

Ryan Rix wrote:
> On Mon 29 June 2009 4:15:45 pm Dazed_75 wrote:
>> Mathew, I believe there are several ways to resolve this with the simplest
>> being to only ask for 4GB of persistent storage.  The rest of the stick
>> should still be usable though you may find it handy to make the rest a
>> separate partition and mount it within the LiveUSB Ubuntu.  You should even
>> be able to make the mount persistent.
> 
> Be sure to mount that by UUID in your fstab, so that the device node doesn't 
> change across systems.
> 
> What is /dev/sdb1 on one system may be /dev/sdf1 on another.
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> 
> 

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Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

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Re: USB Live Ubuntu Persistence

[Eric Shubert]

Eric Shubert wrote:
> Dazed_75 wrote:
>> Saturday I was helping Matthew create a Live Ubuntu USB stick.  We 
>> succeeded but for some reason persistence was not working and I could 
>> not figure out why.  I did the same thing here at home and persistence 
>> works fine.  In fact, I think I know the answer now.  Mathew was using a 
>> 16 GB flash drive and wanted the rest of the drive used for persistent 
>> storage. 
>>
>> The problem was, I believe, that the flash drive was formatted for FAT32 
>> which has a file size limit of 4GB.  It appears the utility to create 
>> the LiveUSB ubuntu stick creates a special file to use for the "overlay" 
>> (my term) file system that is merged onto the read only filesystem from 
>> the Live image.  Since we were asking it to make a 14.4GB overlay file 
>> on a FAT32 partition, that part of the install failed silently and 
>> persistence was was working.
>>
>> Mathew, I believe there are several ways to resolve this with the 
>> simplest being to only ask for 4GB of persistent storage.  The rest of 
>> the stick should still be usable though you may find it handy to make 
>> the rest a separate partition and mount it within the LiveUSB Ubuntu.  
>> You should even be able to make the mount persistent.
>>
>> -- 
>> Dazed_75 a.k.a. Larry
>>
> 
> That sounds like a possibility all right. TTBOMK though, FAT32 has a 2G 
> file size limit. :(
> 

Now that I think of it though, are we confusing partition vs file sizes? 
The 'overlay' partition would be what's over 2G, not a file. From what 
I've seen of overlay filesystems, there are still going to be 
independent files within the partition. It's not just one big file. As 
such, I doubt this is the problem. As always, I could be wrong. I think 
I was on that last post (except for the 2G part!).

-- 
-Eric 'shubes'

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Re: USB Live Ubuntu Persistence

[Eric Shubert]

Dazed_75 wrote:
> Saturday I was helping Matthew create a Live Ubuntu USB stick.  We 
> succeeded but for some reason persistence was not working and I could 
> not figure out why.  I did the same thing here at home and persistence 
> works fine.  In fact, I think I know the answer now.  Mathew was using a 
> 16 GB flash drive and wanted the rest of the drive used for persistent 
> storage. 
> 
> The problem was, I believe, that the flash drive was formatted for FAT32 
> which has a file size limit of 4GB.  It appears the utility to create 
> the LiveUSB ubuntu stick creates a special file to use for the "overlay" 
> (my term) file system that is merged onto the read only filesystem from 
> the Live image.  Since we were asking it to make a 14.4GB overlay file 
> on a FAT32 partition, that part of the install failed silently and 
> persistence was was working.
> 
> Mathew, I believe there are several ways to resolve this with the 
> simplest being to only ask for 4GB of persistent storage.  The rest of 
> the stick should still be usable though you may find it handy to make 
> the rest a separate partition and mount it within the LiveUSB Ubuntu.  
> You should even be able to make the mount persistent.
> 
> -- 
> Dazed_75 a.k.a. Larry
> 

That sounds like a possibility all right. TTBOMK though, FAT32 has a 2G 
file size limit. :(

-- 
-Eric 'shubes'

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Re: Clustering

[Bryan O'Neal]

The new Ubuntu server is supposed to make it child's play to set up, but I
have not had an opportunity to play with it yet.

On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 1:32 PM, Eric Shubert  wrote:

> Has anyone here implemented any clusters?
> Is any particular distro better or worse at clustering?
> Any pointers regarding clustering you'd like to share?
> --
> -Eric 'shubes'
>
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Re: USB Live Ubuntu Persistence

[Ryan Rix]

On Mon 29 June 2009 4:15:45 pm Dazed_75 wrote:
> Mathew, I believe there are several ways to resolve this with the simplest
> being to only ask for 4GB of persistent storage.  The rest of the stick
> should still be usable though you may find it handy to make the rest a
> separate partition and mount it within the LiveUSB Ubuntu.  You should even
> be able to make the mount persistent.

Be sure to mount that by UUID in your fstab, so that the device node doesn't 
change across systems.

What is /dev/sdb1 on one system may be /dev/sdf1 on another.
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USB Live Ubuntu Persistence

[Dazed_75]

Saturday I was helping Matthew create a Live Ubuntu USB stick.  We succeeded
but for some reason persistence was not working and I could not figure out
why.  I did the same thing here at home and persistence works fine.  In
fact, I think I know the answer now.  Mathew was using a 16 GB flash drive
and wanted the rest of the drive used for persistent storage.

The problem was, I believe, that the flash drive was formatted for FAT32
which has a file size limit of 4GB.  It appears the utility to create the
LiveUSB ubuntu stick creates a special file to use for the "overlay" (my
term) file system that is merged onto the read only filesystem from the Live
image.  Since we were asking it to make a 14.4GB overlay file on a FAT32
partition, that part of the install failed silently and persistence was was
working.

Mathew, I believe there are several ways to resolve this with the simplest
being to only ask for 4GB of persistent storage.  The rest of the stick
should still be usable though you may find it handy to make the rest a
separate partition and mount it within the LiveUSB Ubuntu.  You should even
be able to make the mount persistent.

-- 
Dazed_75 a.k.a. Larry
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Re: Clustering

[Eric Shubert]

Matt Graham wrote:
> From: Eric Shubert 
>> Has anyone here implemented any clusters?
> 
> I've only set one up, but I maintain the ones that my predecessors
> set up.  It's not rocket science. 
> 
>> Is any particular distro better or worse at clustering?
> 
> Not really.  Every distro has heartbeat/DRBD/LVS available.
> 
>> Any pointers regarding clustering you'd like to share?
> 
> Define the problem you're trying to solve more rigorously than just
> "clustering" first.  Do you want flailover between 2 boxes?  Do you
> want a frontend box with N service-providing boxes behind it?  The
> answers to that greatly affect what you will end up doing, as does
> the question "What services is this cluster going to provide?"  
> 
> Basically, all I can do is handwave without answers to "what services?"
> and "how many machines?".
> 

I'm talking about a supercomputer sort of thing. Not failover. Not 
redundancy.

A group of machines (let's say 6 for example) acting as a single number 
crunching behemoth. Something that can deliver tens of teraflops.

-- 
-Eric 'shubes'

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Re: Clustering

[Stephen]

the only cluster i messed with was a Beowulf cluster. it worked (i
think) but i was unsure how to really make it do more than talk to
itself.

in any case id look at various features of the distro first (GFS
support, cluster management tools and application to be used)

i think ubuntu has a cloud computing app comparable with or related to
the amazon S3 stuff. and GFS is a RH technology but available all
over.

On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 1:47 PM, Matt Graham wrote:
> From: Eric Shubert 
>> Has anyone here implemented any clusters?
>
> I've only set one up, but I maintain the ones that my predecessors
> set up.  It's not rocket science.
>
>> Is any particular distro better or worse at clustering?
>
> Not really.  Every distro has heartbeat/DRBD/LVS available.
>
>> Any pointers regarding clustering you'd like to share?
>
> Define the problem you're trying to solve more rigorously than just
> "clustering" first.  Do you want flailover between 2 boxes?  Do you
> want a frontend box with N service-providing boxes behind it?  The
> answers to that greatly affect what you will end up doing, as does
> the question "What services is this cluster going to provide?"
>
> Basically, all I can do is handwave without answers to "what services?"
> and "how many machines?".
>
> --
> Matt G / Dances With Crows
> The Crow202 Blog:  http://crow202.org/wordpress/
> There is no Darkness in Eternity/But only Light too dim for us to see
>
>
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-- 
A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you from
rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button.

Stephen
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Re: Clustering

[Matt Graham]

From: Eric Shubert 
> Has anyone here implemented any clusters?

I've only set one up, but I maintain the ones that my predecessors
set up.  It's not rocket science. 

> Is any particular distro better or worse at clustering?

Not really.  Every distro has heartbeat/DRBD/LVS available.

> Any pointers regarding clustering you'd like to share?

Define the problem you're trying to solve more rigorously than just
"clustering" first.  Do you want flailover between 2 boxes?  Do you
want a frontend box with N service-providing boxes behind it?  The
answers to that greatly affect what you will end up doing, as does
the question "What services is this cluster going to provide?"  

Basically, all I can do is handwave without answers to "what services?"
and "how many machines?".

-- 
Matt G / Dances With Crows
The Crow202 Blog:  http://crow202.org/wordpress/
There is no Darkness in Eternity/But only Light too dim for us to see


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Clustering

[Eric Shubert]

Has anyone here implemented any clusters?
Is any particular distro better or worse at clustering?
Any pointers regarding clustering you'd like to share?
-- 
-Eric 'shubes'

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Re: Stop data loss even on system crash? Remember BUSIER

[Ryan Rix]

On Mon 29 June 2009 9:16:52 am Richard Daggett wrote:
> Howdy
>
>  YOu would need to check your kernel settings to see if this is enabled.
>
>  cat /proc/sys/kernel/sysr1 - RHEL 5 it is not enabled by default
>
> Here are more items you can do with it:
>
> 
> (Non-essential.) This is a group of key combinations implemented at the
> Linux kernel level (a low level). It means, chances are these key
> combinations will work most of the time. The combinations are meant for
> debugging purposes and in an emergency (mostly developers); you should try
> other, safer solutions first. The key  is also knows on PC as
> . The combinations can be enabled/disabled by setting the
> relevant kernel variable to "1" or "0", e.g. : echo "1" >
> /proc/sys/kernel/sysrq  Kill all processes (including X)
> which are running on the currently active virtual console. This key
> combination is know as "secure access key" (SAK).  Send the
> TERM signal to all running processes except init, asking them to exit.
>  Send the KILL signal to all running processes except init.
> This may be more successful in killing runaway processes than the previous
> key combination, but it may cause some of them to exit abnormally.
>  Send the KILL signal to all processes, including init. The
> system will not be functional.  Run an emergency sync (cache
> write) on all mounted filesystems. This can prevent data loss.
>  Remount all mounted filesystems as read-only. This has the
> same effect as the sync combination above, but with one important benefit:
> if the operation is successful, fsck won't have to check all filesystems
> after a computer hardware reset.  Turn off keyboard raw
> mode. This can be useful when your X session hangs. After issueing this
> command you may be able to use .  Reboot
> immediately without syncing or unmounting your disks. Your will likely end
> up with filesystem errors.  Shut the system off (if
> configured and supported).  Dump the current registers and
> flags to your console.  Dump a list of current tasks and
> their information to your console.  Dump memory info to your
> console.
> SysRq> The digit is '0' to '9'. Set the console log level,
> controlling which kernel messages will be printed to your console. For
> example, '0' will cause only emergency messages like PANICs or OOPSes
> displayed on your console.  Display help. Also, any other
> unsupported  combination will display the same help.
>
> Richard

Good to now, Richard! Thanks!
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Re: Stop data loss even on system crash? Remember BUSIER

[Richard Daggett]

Howdy

 YOu would need to check your kernel settings to see if this is enabled.

 cat /proc/sys/kernel/sysr1 - RHEL 5 it is not enabled by default

Here are more items you can do with it:

 
(Non-essential.) This is a group of key combinations implemented at the Linux 
kernel level (a low level). It means, chances are these key combinations will 
work most of the time. The combinations are meant for debugging purposes and in 
an emergency (mostly developers); you should try other, safer solutions first. 
The key  is also knows on PC as . The combinations can be 
enabled/disabled by setting the relevant kernel variable to "1" or "0", e.g. : 
echo "1" > /proc/sys/kernel/sysrq 
 Kill all processes (including X) which are running on the 
currently active virtual console. This key combination is know as "secure 
access key" (SAK). 
 Send the TERM signal to all running processes except init, 
asking them to exit. 
 Send the KILL signal to all running processes except init. This 
may be more successful in killing runaway processes than the previous key 
combination, but it may cause some of them to exit abnormally. 
 Send the KILL signal to all processes, including init. The 
system will not be functional. 
 Run an emergency sync (cache write) on all mounted filesystems. 
This can prevent data loss. 
 Remount all mounted filesystems as read-only. This has the same 
effect as the sync combination above, but with one important benefit: if the 
operation is successful, fsck won't have to check all filesystems after a 
computer hardware reset. 
 Turn off keyboard raw mode. This can be useful when your X 
session hangs. After issueing this command you may be able to use 
. 
 Reboot immediately without syncing or unmounting your disks. 
Your will likely end up with filesystem errors. 
 Shut the system off (if configured and supported). 
 Dump the current registers and flags to your console. 
 Dump a list of current tasks and their information to your 
console. 
 Dump memory info to your console. 
SysRq> The digit is '0' to '9'. Set the console log level, 
controlling which kernel messages will be printed to your console. For example, 
'0' will cause only emergency messages like PANICs or OOPSes displayed on your 
console. 
 Display help. Also, any other unsupported  
combination will display the same help.

Richard

--- On Mon, 6/29/09, Ryan Rix  wrote:

> From: Ryan Rix 
> Subject: Stop data loss even on system crash? Remember BUSIER
> To: "Main PLUG discussion list" 
> Date: Monday, June 29, 2009, 8:40 AM
> Hey,
> 
> Ever wonder what the SysRq key does on your computer? Most
> people have no idea 
> that this can be one of the biggest lifesavers in a sticky
> situation.
> 
> When your system hardlocks, either from a nasty process, a
> bug in X, or for 
> some other reason, you risk losing gobs of data if you have
> to take your 
> system offline. Journaling filesystems alleviate this issue
> to some extent but 
> data loss is always a huge risk when taking a system down
> hard.
> 
> But, one simple word can help you take this risk to
> virtually 0 the next time 
> you must take a system down hard (holding the power button
> for 5 seconds): 
> BUSIER - or backwards REISUB, more accurately
> 
> R - resets the keyboard driver to raw mode
> E - Sends term to all running processes
> I - sends kill signal to all processes
> S - Syncs all mounted partitions
> U - unmount the filesystems and remount as read only
> B - reboot
> 
> Pressing alt-SysRq and the keys above will send a command
> to the kernel (by 
> passing X, applications and other things which may be
> causing the hardlock. 
> This simple method is failsafe and will work in all
> situations except 
> situations in which the kernel is busy, rather than an
> application. In that 
> situation there is little you can do but hope and pray that
> the Journal holds.
> 
> Ryan.
> 
>  
> ---
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> settings:
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Re: Stop data loss even on system crash? Remember BUSIER

[Scarlett Clark]

Wow , nice to know. 
Thanks,
Scarlett

On Mon, 2009-06-29 at 08:40 -0700, Ryan Rix wrote:
> Hey,
> 
> Ever wonder what the SysRq key does on your computer? Most people have no 
> idea 
> that this can be one of the biggest lifesavers in a sticky situation.
> 
> When your system hardlocks, either from a nasty process, a bug in X, or for 
> some other reason, you risk losing gobs of data if you have to take your 
> system offline. Journaling filesystems alleviate this issue to some extent 
> but 
> data loss is always a huge risk when taking a system down hard.
> 
> But, one simple word can help you take this risk to virtually 0 the next time 
> you must take a system down hard (holding the power button for 5 seconds): 
> BUSIER - or backwards REISUB, more accurately
> 
> R - resets the keyboard driver to raw mode
> E - Sends term to all running processes
> I - sends kill signal to all processes
> S - Syncs all mounted partitions
> U - unmount the filesystems and remount as read only
> B - reboot
> 
> Pressing alt-SysRq and the keys above will send a command to the kernel (by 
> passing X, applications and other things which may be causing the hardlock. 
> This simple method is failsafe and will work in all situations except 
> situations in which the kernel is busy, rather than an application. In that 
> situation there is little you can do but hope and pray that the Journal holds.
> 
> Ryan.
> 
>  
> ---
> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
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Stop data loss even on system crash? Remember BUSIER

[Ryan Rix]

Hey,

Ever wonder what the SysRq key does on your computer? Most people have no idea 
that this can be one of the biggest lifesavers in a sticky situation.

When your system hardlocks, either from a nasty process, a bug in X, or for 
some other reason, you risk losing gobs of data if you have to take your 
system offline. Journaling filesystems alleviate this issue to some extent but 
data loss is always a huge risk when taking a system down hard.

But, one simple word can help you take this risk to virtually 0 the next time 
you must take a system down hard (holding the power button for 5 seconds): 
BUSIER - or backwards REISUB, more accurately

R - resets the keyboard driver to raw mode
E - Sends term to all running processes
I - sends kill signal to all processes
S - Syncs all mounted partitions
U - unmount the filesystems and remount as read only
B - reboot

Pressing alt-SysRq and the keys above will send a command to the kernel (by 
passing X, applications and other things which may be causing the hardlock. 
This simple method is failsafe and will work in all situations except 
situations in which the kernel is busy, rather than an application. In that 
situation there is little you can do but hope and pray that the Journal holds.

Ryan.

 
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RE: Certifications as a means of gaining knowlage

[Taylor, Kaia]

Hey Larry,
 
I agree with Lisa's advice in her previous post.  I think rhce is
respected.  I'd like to try again for my rhce.  I only got rhct when I
did the rhce exam, because in the second part of the exam there is a lot
of work to do quickly, and there's not a lot of spare time to read
through docs, especially when setting up and testing iptables.
 
I'd gladly hold or attend study sessions with the goal of setting up
linux services & locking down the system in an increasingly speedy way,
as that would be the key (for me) to succeeding next time.  Maybe our
fist one can piggyback on the installfest, as there seems to be room at
UAT for a few more people to install and re-install linux?
 
 

Regards,

Kaia Taylor


DevSA  group  --  tis-dco-devsa - jumpword devsa

http://dco-sps.schwab.com/sites/devsa/welcome
 
desk 602-977-5157 
pager 6025785...@messaging.sprintpcs.com or white pages
 
All e-mail sent to or from this address will be received by the Charles
Schwab corporate e-mail system and is subject to archival and review by
someone other than the recipient.

 



From: plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
[mailto:plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us] On Behalf Of
Larry Lauer
Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 7:01 PM
To: 'Main PLUG discussion list'
Subject: RE: Certifications as a means of gaining knowlage



I just realized that when I first sent this my phone didn't reply to the
list. Sorry David for the multiple copies.

 

Hi all I have just been a list voyeur for awhile. I was wondering if
others are pursuing any Linux certifications now and if there are any
study groups -classes going that you may know of. Thanks.

 

I also have collected over the years some certs from Novell, Cisco,
sans, M$ It has cost a ton but I think that it has been worth it by
getting me interviews and jobs. Now I want to focus on Linux and
security more.

 

 I think employers also see a certification as your potential to follow
through with what you start and a basic understanding like David said.

 

Enough of my rambling. Thanks.

 

-Larry

Sent from my BlackBerry(r) smartphone with SprintSpeed

 

 

From: plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
[mailto:plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us] On Behalf Of
David Munson
Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 4:15 PM
To: Main PLUG discussion list
Subject: Re: Certifications as a means of gaining knowlage

 

Certifications can be useful for getting your foot in the door when you
may not have the experience yet. Granted, most certifications say you
should have X amount of time doing Y type of work, but I had very little
experience with the subject matter when I passed the A+ and Network+
certifications. When I go after a certification, it's because I'm
looking to get a handle on the basics for jobs related to it, and
because it's something to point to when I talk to HR about my
qualifications.

 

Additionally, certifications SUGGEST that you have a certain level of
knowledge about a set of topics. I can spend six months doing network
support work and never learn a thing about fiber if I'm at a small
business, but a Network+ certification SUGGESTS that I at least know the
difference between SC and MTRJ connectors, as well as single-mode and
multimode fiber.

 

To put it in fewer words, certifications are good for covering the
basics of a subject, and might get you an interview, but it's the actual
experience that'll probably land you the job.

On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 2:17 PM, Bryan O'Neal
 wrote:

I too do not believe certifications are worth much. With the exception
of a selling point to customers who don't know better or to help lower
your insurance premiums.  That said they CAN be a good path to focus
your learning and gain knowledge however that knowledge is not usually
worth more then a few months of intensive on the job training.

On a side note I am mojor pet peve, in that I hate companies that
requier certain certifications for emplyment... If I were to colect ever
cert I have seen "requierd" for job I was otherwise well qualified for I
would have to spend about two years and about $100K to obtain them. At
which point I could get a few years of use and then have to repeat the
process ;)

If you want your people to have a prticuler cert you higher the person
and make continued employment contengent on getting the cert. 

On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 6:49 AM, Lisa Kachold 
wrote:

 

On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 10:33 PM, Steve Phariss
 wrote:

Question to the group.

I know that certificates in and of themselves are not a good
indicator of skill.  But are they a worthwhile goal for knowlege sake?
In particular, I have been faced with a couple jobs that required
Vertualization skills.  I have very little enterprise experie

Re: Need a UML editor

[Bryan O'Neal]

I have used Umbrello and it does work for C but not so much for Java.
However I am hoping that, and the windows compatability issues, are taken
care of in the next few years because I realy do like the way it feels.

On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 7:10 AM, Alan Dayley  wrote:

> On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 1:03 PM, Bryan O'Neal
> wrote:
> > Anyone know of a decent UML editor that
> > 1) Can read and write java code; at least for class diagrams
> > 2) Is cross platform
> > 3) Is open source, at least free
> >
> > I use Eclipse and Netbeans as my java IDE's if that matters.
>
> Did you look at Umbrello?  http://uml.sourceforge.net/  Don't know if
> it integrates into java IDEs but it looks nice.  Works OK for C, not
> tried for Java but lists it as supported.
>
> Alan
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Re: Need a UML editor

[Alan Dayley]

On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 1:03 PM, Bryan O'Neal wrote:
> Anyone know of a decent UML editor that
> 1) Can read and write java code; at least for class diagrams
> 2) Is cross platform
> 3) Is open source, at least free
>
> I use Eclipse and Netbeans as my java IDE's if that matters.

Did you look at Umbrello?  http://uml.sourceforge.net/  Don't know if
it integrates into java IDEs but it looks nice.  Works OK for C, not
tried for Java but lists it as supported.

Alan
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Re: Need a UML editor

[Lisa Kachold]

More:

http://www.eclipse4you.com/?q=en/eclipse_plugins/uml

StackOverflow has a good page on this:
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/51786/recommended-eclipse-plugins-to-generate-uml-from-java-code


On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 1:12 AM, Bryan O'Neal wrote:

> Yha, I started out thier. Found UML2 and a few associated modules. However
> I failed to find a way to read exiting java code or write code based on the
> UML.  Do you use an eclipsed based UML editor? am I missing something?
>
> On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 2:47 PM, Lisa Kachold wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 1:03 PM, Bryan O'Neal > > wrote:
>>
>>> Anyone know of a decent UML editor that
>>> 1) Can read and write java code; at least for class diagrams
>>> 2) Is cross platform
>>> 3) Is open source, at least free
>>>
>>> I use Eclipse and Netbeans as my java IDE's if that matters.
>>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.eclipseplugincentral.com
>>
>> Search for UML Editors
>>
>> There are a great number available.
>>
>> --
>> (503)754-4452 tribe.obnosis.com
>> scientology.obnosis.com
>> plug.obnosis.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---
>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
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>>
>
>
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-- 
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scientology.obnosis.com
plug.obnosis.com
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Re: Certifications as a means of gaining knowlage

[James Finstrom]

Nothing urks me more than someone who posts their resume in their
signature. If your a doctor than fine have md dds whatever you earned
it but to be

John Doe - mcp ccse naacp aamco

Seriously...

A lot of companies still want a+ but simply need monkeys who can plug
in wires.  I would often rather teach an intuitive newb than deal with
a certified idiot who knows how to pass tests.

Just my 3.14 cents

On 6/28/09, Larry Lauer  wrote:
> I just realized that when I first sent this my phone didn't reply to the
> list. Sorry David for the multiple copies.
>
>
>
> Hi all I have just been a list voyeur for awhile. I was wondering if others
> are pursuing any Linux certifications now and if there are any study groups
> -classes going that you may know of. Thanks.
>
>
>
> I also have collected over the years some certs from Novell, Cisco, sans,
> M$ It has cost a ton but I think that it has been worth it by getting me
> interviews and jobs. Now I want to focus on Linux and security more.
>
>
>
>  I think employers also see a certification as your potential to follow
> through with what you start and a basic understanding like David said.
>
>
>
> Enough of my rambling. Thanks.
>
>
>
> -Larry
>
> Sent from my BlackBerryR smartphone with SprintSpeed
>
>
>
>
>
> From: plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
> [mailto:plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us] On Behalf Of David
> Munson
> Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 4:15 PM
> To: Main PLUG discussion list
> Subject: Re: Certifications as a means of gaining knowlage
>
>
>
> Certifications can be useful for getting your foot in the door when you may
> not have the experience yet. Granted, most certifications say you should
> have X amount of time doing Y type of work, but I had very little experience
> with the subject matter when I passed the A+ and Network+ certifications.
> When I go after a certification, it's because I'm looking to get a handle on
> the basics for jobs related to it, and because it's something to point to
> when I talk to HR about my qualifications.
>
>
>
> Additionally, certifications SUGGEST that you have a certain level of
> knowledge about a set of topics. I can spend six months doing network
> support work and never learn a thing about fiber if I'm at a small business,
> but a Network+ certification SUGGESTS that I at least know the difference
> between SC and MTRJ connectors, as well as single-mode and multimode fiber.
>
>
>
> To put it in fewer words, certifications are good for covering the basics of
> a subject, and might get you an interview, but it's the actual experience
> that'll probably land you the job.
>
> On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 2:17 PM, Bryan O'Neal 
> wrote:
>
> I too do not believe certifications are worth much. With the exception of a
> selling point to customers who don't know better or to help lower your
> insurance premiums.  That said they CAN be a good path to focus your
> learning and gain knowledge however that knowledge is not usually worth more
> then a few months of intensive on the job training.
>
> On a side note I am mojor pet peve, in that I hate companies that requier
> certain certifications for emplyment... If I were to colect ever cert I have
> seen "requierd" for job I was otherwise well qualified for I would have to
> spend about two years and about $100K to obtain them. At which point I could
> get a few years of use and then have to repeat the process ;)
>
> If you want your people to have a prticuler cert you higher the person and
> make continued employment contengent on getting the cert.
>
> On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 6:49 AM, Lisa Kachold 
> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 10:33 PM, Steve Phariss  wrote:
>
> Question to the group.
>
> I know that certificates in and of themselves are not a good indicator of
> skill.  But are they a worthwhile goal for knowlege sake?  In particular, I
> have been faced with a couple jobs that required Vertualization skills.  I
> have very little enterprise experience with vertulization so was concidering
> taking a bootcamp course that concludes with a vertulization cert (Certified
> Virtualization ExpertT -CVET)
>
> Does anyone have any experience with the CVE or Bootcamp classes in general?
>
>
> Steve
>
> In the old days, we had what were considered "academics".  These were the
> people who could stand around and spout a million useless details about
> technology, but in the actual trenches, had no if/then/therefore logical
> skills.  They were like autistics, in that they could memorize rote, but it
> often seemed as if the people who actually could excel at the times when
> someone had to pull raw intelligence and creativity out of a hat, they
> failed horribly.
>
> The people who actually had to work in the fields often found the
> certifications to be far from what was required to actually master a subject
> - epic fail for those selling technology or selling management that
> certifications were actually a good gauge of mastery.
>
> So, what s

Flock Browser

[Scarlett Clark]

Anyone else try this? Pretty impressive, and best of all it runs great
in linux.


www.flock.com


Scarlett


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Re: Need a UML editor

[Scarlett Clark]

It seems all of my posts to plug have been going into the abyss. 
Hopefully this will go through...

Netbeans also has a UML plugin. I never actually used it so not sure how
good it is.

Scarlett



> On Sun, 2009-06-28 at 13:03 -0700, Bryan O'Neal wrote:
> > Anyone know of a decent UML editor that 
> > 1) Can read and write java code; at least for class diagrams
> > 2) Is cross platform
> > 3) Is open source, at least free 
> > 
> > I use Eclipse and Netbeans as my java IDE's if that matters.  
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Re: Need a UML editor

[Bryan O'Neal]

Yha, I started out thier. Found UML2 and a few associated modules. However I
failed to find a way to read exiting java code or write code based on the
UML.  Do you use an eclipsed based UML editor? am I missing something?

On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 2:47 PM, Lisa Kachold wrote:

>
>
> On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 1:03 PM, Bryan O'Neal 
> wrote:
>
>> Anyone know of a decent UML editor that
>> 1) Can read and write java code; at least for class diagrams
>> 2) Is cross platform
>> 3) Is open source, at least free
>>
>> I use Eclipse and Netbeans as my java IDE's if that matters.
>>
>
>
> http://www.eclipseplugincentral.com
>
> Search for UML Editors
>
> There are a great number available.
>
> --
> (503)754-4452 tribe.obnosis.com
> scientology.obnosis.com
> plug.obnosis.com
>
>
>
>
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