Re: Google Chrome OS on Linux
On Tue 7 July 2009 10:24:10 pm Alan Dayley wrote: Google announced the concept of a new operating system they are calling Google Chrome OS. http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2009/07/introducing-google-chrome-os.html The software architecture is simple — Google Chrome running within a new windowing system on top of a Linux kernel. For application developers, the web is the platform. Will be Open Source with netbooks using it by 2nd half of 2010. Exciting! And so begins the destruction of Free software :( Moving to the cloud (using the linux kernel, no less!) will only make it easier to provide closed and proprietary systems to the user. Sure, they may be free as in beer, but try getting a hold of the sourcecode for gmail, or flickr, or facebook. You can't. Yet, these dominate the world of even GNU/Linux free software nuts. The web is not as open and free of a place that the world makes it out to be. All in all, a scary turn, and I fear that google is silently breaking its don't be evil mantra, though its doing it in the slyest and most profound way: By using free software against itself. I suppose it's time to do as Bob Elzer says and be a real man and set up dIMAP account on KMail... A sad day, imo, Ryan --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Old computer users (Was: Re: Laptop (cell phone) in my pocket?)
From: Alan Dayley ala...@consultpros.com History in general is vastly important, despite how it is treated in most schools. History: An account mostly false, of events mostly unimportant, which are brought about by rulers mostly knaves, and soldiers mostly fools. --Ambrose Bierce, _The Devil's Dictionary_ An important history lesson from Eben Moglen, attorney and historian, can be found in his keynote speech at the Red Hat Summit of 2006. Watch it from a link at http://www.redhat.com/promo/summit/videos/ Learn that copyright and patents were not about making people wealthy but were a successful tool to attract innovated people to the young United States! Cut-n-paste from http://www.fark.com/cgi/comments.pl?IDLink=2918235 : -- aaarkieboy 2007-07-08 03:41:05 PM For anyone who still feels a twinge of guilt or regret when pirating a copyrighted work, know this: it is now morally justifiable to pirate music, movies, and books under a tradional analysis of copyright law. The original justification for copyright law was a moral contract between the creator and society: the creator would be entitled to receive a temporary monopoly on the use of that work (i.e., a copyright) in exchange for allowing the work to enter the public domain when the monopoly expired. The concept was fundamentally contractual (although embodied in statues) and had benefits and burdens on both sides, as any enforceable contract requires. This created a win-win situation: the creator benefitted exclusively from the creation for the duration of the copyright (originally 25 years) and society thereafter benefitted as works continually entered the public domain. The creator was enriched during the copyright period and society was enriched in exchange as the body of freely-available, no-longer-copyrighted works continued to grow. But then the system began to break down. Companies like Disney, the RIAA, and the MPAA began to lobby for extensions to the copyright period. Sonny Bono (watch out for the tree, man) and his ilk accepted campaign contributions in exchange for voting to continue extending the period. It is now obvious that current copyrights will never expire -- every time Mickey Mouse gets close to the end of his monopoly period, some future Sonny Bono will do it again. Copyrights have stopped expiring. Now consider what this does to the social contract embodied in copyright law. The contract is now completely one-sided. The copyright owner has all the benefits (perpetual monopoly) and society has none (no growth of works in the public domain). Society has lost its side of the bargain that formed the entire basis for creating this system. Do you know what happens in law when a contract has all benefits on one side and all burdens on the other? It is regarded as unenforceable or illusory. There must be consideration (i.e., an exchange of benefits and burdens) on both sides of a contract as a legal prerequisite to being enforceable. This means that the social contract that embodies copyright law is no longer enforceable. You are morally free to pirate music, movies, anything you want. Of course morality and law are not synonymous. Pirating is still illegal. But it is no longer immoral. And the most interesting part is that Sonny Bono is therefore responsible for destroying the moral weight of copyright law. He eliminated the element of consideration that had previously served as the justification for copyright. Ain't karma a biatch, Sonny? - Sorry for the wall-o-text, but it's kind of interesting. Whether it'd hold up in court is another matter entirely. -- Matt G / Dances With Crows The Crow202 Blog: http://crow202.org/wordpress/ There is no Darkness in Eternity/But only Light too dim for us to see --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Google Chrome OS on Linux
Ryan Rix wrote: On Tue 7 July 2009 10:24:10 pm Alan Dayley wrote: Google announced the concept of a new operating system they are calling Google Chrome OS. http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2009/07/introducing-google-chrome-os.html SNIP And so begins the destruction of Free software :( Moving to the cloud (using the linux kernel, no less!) will only make it easier to provide closed and proprietary systems to the user. Sure, they may be free as in beer, but try getting a hold of the sourcecode for gmail, or flickr, or facebook. You can't. Yet, these dominate the world of even GNU/Linux free software nuts. The web is not as open and free of a place that the world makes it out to be. All in all, a scary turn, and I fear that google is silently breaking its don't be evil mantra, though its doing it in the slyest and most profound way: By using free software against itself. I suppose it's time to do as Bob Elzer says and be a real man and set up dIMAP account on KMail... A sad day, imo, Ryan --- I wouldn't interpret this as an attack on freedom or free software. Google exists on the web, and anything that makes it easier for people to use the web is good for Google. What I expect they're trying to do here is simply help to break the hegemonic monopoly stranglehold that one company has on the desktop. Not because it's the right thing to do (although it is), but because that stranglehold is a direct threat to their own core business. The current monopoly is aggressively targeting the search engine market with a heavily marketed rebranding of their own (IMO lousy) search service, and all of the related services as a means to gain even more revenues. There is also (again, IMO) substantial evidence to suggest that they are (ab)using their monopoly position to support that (e.g. many users claim a recent monopoly O/S security update changes the default search engine in all browsers to the vendor's own rebranded site, without warning or permission). I do agree that this new web-centric O/S will definitely coax more people to run their entire system on web-based services. The counterpoint on that is that most services at least allow your *data* to be easily exported in standard formats, so users can switch services, or even migrate to actual applications if they choose. That should mitigate much of the risk, since the Free software communities have proven themselves capable of outpacing the proprietary players in online services. In fact most really powerful online systems can only function in a Free model, any other model is DOA (e.g. Wikipedia couldn't happen if the whole thing was proprietary, and they run open software because it's simply *better* for their application). My expectation is that this won't damage or limit the growth of free software in any real sense. I expect it *will* help to break the current monopoly problem in the O/S space, and leave users with more choices, on multiple dimensions. Users will, in the end, have many options for proprietary and Free, online and offline, mobile and tethered, and a whole spectrum between each pole on each dimension. The nice part of the new Google Chrome O/S is that it's 100% standards-based. Everything written on the web for that platform will work just as well on all platforms except one (notably, the monopoly platform that's causing the most problems). That means that it adds one more pressure point on all site designers, both Free and proprietary, to support web standards (rather than writing only for one monopolistic system). In the end, that seems like a good thing all by itself, even if everything else I've said turns out to be false. Another nice effect to keep in mind that this new O/S will also put a behemoth company behind getting even more *desktop* hardware working *well* with the Linux kernel, since they'll want every peripheral to just work with their system, and that means making it work with the Linux kernel (preferably with open in-kernel drivers). Hopefully this will improve the few areas where vendors are still very reluctant to support Linux (USB scanners are a good example). My apologies if this was a bit of a rambling post, I'm a bit tired, but I believe it is important to share a more optimistic counterpoint. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Laptop (cell phone) in my pocket?
O the "joys" of standing in line to use one of the department's hulking 026 (later 029) keypunches, the tricks of duping a card up to the point where you needed to either add or delete punches and then holding one card while letting the other feed. Heaven forbid if you dropped a 2000 card box or a 3000 card tray and the cards weren't sequenced in cols. 73-80. You learned quickly to sequence by 10s or 20s or even 100s to leave room for the inevitable insertions. It was well into the 70s or early 80s before we trusted tapes and disks enough to give up our trusty file cabinets full of card decks. The binary cards from punched object decks could be folded at one end to make a point, arranged stapled on cardboard in concentric circles (point out), and sprayed gold to make a very pretty Christmas wreath. We still have one tucked away with the old Christmas stuff. Although it's somewhat the worse for wear, it's probably the only one left in existence. Although I wouldn't give anything for the experiences of those days, I wouldn't do them again for anything, either. Mark Jarvis old IBM GE mainframe, 80s PC, and 90s Unix veteran. Lyle Tuttle wrote: At 04:33 PM 7/7/2009, you wrote: You little youngsters don't know the meaning of hardship. Back in my day you got monochrome and 40x25 characters and counted yourself lucky! Before that it was fuzzy white on black with a dumb terminal and a 300 baud acoustic coupler. Before that it was on a dot matrix printer with a keyboard. Get it right quick or you waste a lot of paper! At least I'm not old enough to have suffered with punch cards I am..while the SDS computer system (16K core) ran 5 real-time experiments on the face of the reactor...and another x-ray diffraction counter in another area...careful!! Don't drop those!!! That was a long time ago. --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Old computer users (Was: Re: Laptop (cell phone) in my pocket?)
Ryan Rix wrote: Thank you for changing the subject line ;) The funny thing about all of this, and talking to the retro hacker guy who sits next to me at work, is that I know what all of you are talking about, and I'm only 17. Not sure that's depressing or not xD I guess that's what happens when you have the Jargon file and various 'history' books and lore saved to your desktop and your pda for idle reading ;) Ryan heh, I wouldn't be too depressed. if you have a working knowledge of such items, even when they come along rarely, it'll be much better than if you had no clue (like most young folks these days). You should try working on old tube radios and other such similar items from the 40's to the 70's. Hell, I still have an old 1978 model year reel-to-reel recorder that works. --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Google Chrome OS on Linux
Top posting as a crazed act of revenge, I'm actually with Ryan on this one. Open Source is almost trendy, largely because of Google and their Android platform. Now netbook owners everywhere will brag about their Linux-based open source operating system, forgetting the freedoms they give up with could computing. And people ask my why I hate Google (nothing personal, I know Google peeps watch this list, I just don't like your employer). There was an article in last month's Free Software Foundation Bulletin about Free network services. Featured were Libre.fm and Identi.ca, Free software replacements for last.fm and Twitter, respectively. I guess that's all we can do, get creative web people on our side, using the AGPL. Jesus, I miss the days of finger. Social networking done right! Excerpts from Ryan Rix's message of Tue Jul 07 23:20:28 -0700 2009: On Tue 7 July 2009 10:24:10 pm Alan Dayley wrote: Google announced the concept of a new operating system they are calling Google Chrome OS. http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2009/07/introducing-google-chrome-os.html The software architecture is simple Google Chrome running within a new windowing system on top of a Linux kernel. For application developers, the web is the platform. Will be Open Source with netbooks using it by 2nd half of 2010. Exciting! And so begins the destruction of Free software :( Moving to the cloud (using the linux kernel, no less!) will only make it easier to provide closed and proprietary systems to the user. Sure, they may be free as in beer, but try getting a hold of the sourcecode for gmail, or flickr, or facebook. You can't. Yet, these dominate the world of even GNU/Linux free software nuts. The web is not as open and free of a place that the world makes it out to be. All in all, a scary turn, and I fear that google is silently breaking its don't be evil mantra, though its doing it in the slyest and most profound way: By using free software against itself. I suppose it's time to do as Bob Elzer says and be a real man and set up dIMAP account on KMail... A sad day, imo, Ryan --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Old computer users (Was: Re: Laptop (cell phone) in my pocket?)
my dad has one of those. Or perhaps he got rid of it after he transfered his music to cd. On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 4:50 AM, Technomage technomage.ha...@gmail.comwrote: Hell, I still have an old 1978 model year reel-to-reel recorder that works. --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss -- :-)~MIKE~(-: --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Laptop (cell phone) in my pocket?
Ok.I have to add to the fun...My first computer was a teletype machine that dialed into a CDC (?) mainframe somewhere. No punch cards, just a paper tape about 2 wide. The only language was Basic. Make a typo, and you had to start all over again from the beginning. My first significant program (outside of homework) was a computer dating service in high school - made a lot of money for the sophomore class. Ok, after all these years I will confess the truth - the program couldn't run because we ran out of memory on the mainframe - too much data and we actually crashed the mainframe at one point. The principal got a phone call and asked me what the heck was going on. So I had to match everyone by hand. Everyone got their current boy friend/girl friend, so the program was a huge success! Those not already dating actually had fun on their blind date. Mark On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 1:04 AM, Mark Jarvis m.jar...@cox.net wrote: O the joys of standing in line to use one of the department's hulking 026 (later 029) keypunches, the tricks of duping a card up to the point where you needed to either add or delete punches and then holding one card while letting the other feed. Heaven forbid if you dropped a 2000 card box or a 3000 card tray and the cards weren't sequenced in cols. 73-80. You learned quickly to sequence by 10s or 20s or even 100s to leave room for the inevitable insertions. It was well into the 70s or early 80s before we trusted tapes and disks enough to give up our trusty file cabinets full of card decks. The binary cards from punched object decks could be folded at one end to make a point, arranged stapled on cardboard in concentric circles (point out), and sprayed gold to make a very pretty Christmas wreath. We still have one tucked away with the old Christmas stuff. Although it's somewhat the worse for wear, it's probably the only one left in existence. Although I wouldn't give anything for the experiences of those days, I wouldn't do them again for anything, either. Mark Jarvis old IBM GE mainframe, 80s PC, and 90s Unix veteran. Lyle Tuttle wrote: At 04:33 PM 7/7/2009, you wrote: You little youngsters don't know the meaning of hardship. Back in my day you got monochrome and 40x25 characters and counted yourself lucky! Before that it was fuzzy white on black with a dumb terminal and a 300 baud acoustic coupler. Before that it was on a dot matrix printer with a keyboard. Get it right quick or you waste a lot of paper! At least I'm not old enough to have suffered with punch cards I am..while the SDS computer system (16K core) ran 5 real-time experiments on the face of the reactor...and another x-ray diffraction counter in another area...careful!! Don't drop those!!! That was a long time ago. -- --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Old computer users (Was: Re: Laptop (cell phone) in my pocket?)
On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 11:37 PM, Matt Grahamdanceswithcr...@usa.net wrote: From: Alan Dayley ala...@consultpros.com History in general is vastly important, despite how it is treated in most schools. History: An account mostly false, of events mostly unimportant, which are brought about by rulers mostly knaves, and soldiers mostly fools. --Ambrose Bierce, _The Devil's Dictionary_ Ambrose proves my point. History is so important it will be distorted by those in power to protect their power. Eben Moglen in that talk points out that nearly everyone now thinks the purpose of copyright and patents was to create wealth. This is a distortion or half-truth of history, perpetuated by those who benefit from the distortion. Nearly everyone does not know or think about the full purpose of immigration and the explosion of culture and technology that resulted. The benefit to society is lost in the benefit to the corporations. Perhaps I can rephrase: True history is vastly important. Alan --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Google Chrome OS on Linux
Tuna wrote: Top posting as a crazed act of revenge, D: I'm actually with Ryan on this one. :O What?? Open Source is almost trendy, largely because of Google and their Android platform. Now netbook owners everywhere will brag about their Linux-based open source operating system, forgetting the freedoms they give up with could computing. And people ask my why I hate Google (nothing personal, I know Google peeps watch this list, I just don't like your employer). Open Source *IS* trendy. Open Source has been trendy since Firefox. And I don't even consider Firefox Free Software in its most liberal sense. As more and more 'regular' people get involved and become users (as the OSI, FSF and all the There was an article in last month's Free Software Foundation Bulletin about Free network services. Featured were Libre.fm and Identi.ca, Free software replacements for last.fm and Twitter, respectively. I guess that's all we can do, get creative web people on our side, using the AGPL. Even with the Affero, it doesn't really help the regular user without a webserver or anything to run a webservice on. You can't just turn around, pop it into GCC and say here I go, a new veresion of Identi.ca! It's just not that simple. So, the majority of users will be bound to nonfree (in my view, anyways) software. The Affero misses out on an important point, imo: How can a user be granted the same freedom as the software creators without putting either at risk? How do you deal with, if you somehow find a way to allow the users' modifications to run on the software developer's dataset (as it should!) without the risk of comprimising others' data. Virtualization could play a huge part here, but it is only half the battle. Jesus, I miss the days of finger. Social networking done right! Were you even born back then? :P Ryan --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Google Chrome OS on Linux
On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 7:50 AM, Ryan Rix phrkonale...@gmail.com wrote: Tuna wrote: Top posting as a crazed act of revenge, D: I'm actually with Ryan on this one. :O What?? Open Source is almost trendy, largely because of Google and their Android platform. Now netbook owners everywhere will brag about their Linux-based open source operating system, forgetting the freedoms they give up with could computing. And people ask my why I hate Google (nothing personal, I know Google peeps watch this list, I just don't like your employer). Open Source *IS* trendy. Open Source has been trendy since Firefox. And I don't even consider Firefox Free Software in its most liberal sense. As more and more 'regular' people get involved and become users (as the OSI, FSF and all the There was an article in last month's Free Software Foundation Bulletin about Free network services. Featured were Libre.fm and Identi.ca, Free software replacements for last.fm and Twitter, respectively. I guess that's all we can do, get creative web people on our side, using the AGPL. Even with the Affero, it doesn't really help the regular user without a webserver or anything to run a webservice on. You can't just turn around, pop it into GCC and say here I go, a new veresion of Identi.ca! It's just not that simple. So, the majority of users will be bound to nonfree (in my view, anyways) software. The Affero misses out on an important point, imo: How can a user be granted the same freedom as the software creators without putting either at risk? How do you deal with, if you somehow find a way to allow the users' modifications to run on the software developer's dataset (as it should!) without the risk of comprimising others' data. Virtualization could play a huge part here, but it is only half the battle. Jesus, I miss the days of finger. Social networking done right! Were you even born back then? :P Ryan --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss http://www.obnosis.com/motivatebytruth/chromenotgold.jpeg -- (623)239-3392 Skype: obn0sis (503)754-4452 www.obnosis.com --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: OT: (sort of) Village in is now THE editor!
At least it wasnt emacs? *ducks* On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 7:28 PM, Alan Dayleyala...@consultpros.com wrote: According to the following photo, Village Inn restaurant is evidently re-branding themselves as a well known text editor. Some say, the only true text editor. http://twitpic.com/9mndv In lower-case, even! We should have a Stammtisch there sometime. Alan --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss -- A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you from rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button. Stephen --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Laptop (cell phone) in my pocket?
Technically First was a Custom Made S100 that my dad had created for working from home from spare parts at work, it has a modem that was manually adjusted from 400-9800 baud modem and some weird collection of cards doing things 2 terminals via serial and a pair of 8in floppy drives... was cool looking but made his office look like electronics experiment gone haywire. my first computer was the C64 and a TurboXT 8088 within short order some time later... (cause my dad was tired of me sneaking on his computer to dial into bbs games --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Old computer users (Was: Re: Laptop (cell phone) in my pocket?)
For all of you looking for memory lane and to see how far back the old tech goes... http://www.computerhistory.org/ I personally want an altair shell and to load in a modern computer inside of it and make the lights blink again --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Old computer users (Was: Re: Laptop (cell phone) in my pocket?)
This is the one i had actually menat to give also: http://www.old-computers.com/news/default.asp On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 9:21 AM, Stephencryptwo...@gmail.com wrote: For all of you looking for memory lane and to see how far back the old tech goes... http://www.computerhistory.org/ I personally want an altair shell and to load in a modern computer inside of it and make the lights blink again -- A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you from rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button. Stephen --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Laptop (cell phone) in my pocket?
Stephen wrote: Technically First was a Custom Made S100 that my dad had created for working from home from spare parts at work, it has a modem that was manually adjusted from 400-9800 baud modem and some weird collection of cards doing things 2 terminals via serial and a pair of 8in floppy drives... I'm guessing that it was probably 300-9600 baud (I don't think 400-9800 were valid values). I used to connect to a mainframe at 300 baud for support. Slow, but faster than driving into work. I paid $750 for a 9600 baud modem when they were the fastest available. Ouch! -- -Eric 'shubes' --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Old computer users (Was: Re: Laptop (cell phone) in my pocket?)
On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 9:21 AM, Stephencryptwo...@gmail.com wrote: For all of you looking for memory lane and to see how far back the old tech goes... http://www.computerhistory.org/ I personally want an altair shell and to load in a modern computer inside of it and make the lights blink again Oh yes!!: 1965: DEC unveils the PDP-8, the first commercially successful minicomputer. Small enough to sit on a desktop, it sells for $18,000 one-fifth the cost of a low-end IBM/360 mainframe. The combination of speed, size, and cost enables the establishment of the minicomputer in thousands of manufacturing plants, offices, and scientific laboratories. lyle --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: PHP Script timing out and MySql using almost all the CPU and RAM questions
sounds like you have either a MySQl bug or a problem query. Turn on
query logging and get the query that is causing the problem and post
it here.
-jmz
On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 12:21 PM, keith smithklsmith2...@yahoo.com wrote:
Hi Everyone,
I do support for an online store.
Last night we were trying to run a report that was taking forever. It is a
lot of data so I expected it to timeout. The owner says he has successfully
run the report before. I shelled in and found MySql was using 98.3% of the
CPU and I think 4.7% of Memory.
I restarted MySql and the load went down to nothing.
While I was in there I noticed we have 513764k of RAM, and we were using
almost all of it and we were using some swap as well.
Here is what I just pulled off the system.
top - 11:12:54 up 229 days, 20:08, 3 users, load average: 0.21, 0.16, 0.07
Tasks: 80 total, 2 running, 78 sleeping, 0 stopped, 0 zombie
Cpu(s): 1.0%us, 0.3%sy, 0.0%ni, 95.7%id, 0.0%wa, 3.0%hi, 0.0%si, 0.0%st
Mem: 513764k total, 506652k used, 7112k free, 4904k buffers
Swap: 3723784k total, 32276k used, 3691508k free, 311520k cached
This raises a number of questions:
1) What could cause the MySql server to start using so much CPU? After a
restart we ran the report again and the CPU usage was much less. The report
still timed out.
2) I'm wondering if more RAM would make the system more responsive? I've
seen the benefits of RAM first hand but not in how it would speed up a web
server.
3) The report we were running gave no indication of timing out. I'm wondering
how the following PHP.ini directives come into play:
- max_execution_time = 30 : In seconds. Why would the script appear to keep
working?
- max_input_time = 60 : Same question as above.
I'm wondering if setting the memory - ini_set('memory_limit', '64M'); in that
app, if that would help much and if I extend the time if that might help -
ini_set('max_execution_time',240); along with ini_set(max_input_time, 240)
?
Thanks in advance for your help!
Keith Smith
---
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PHP Script timing out and MySql using almost all the CPU and RAM questions
Hi Everyone,
I do support for an online store.
Last night we were trying to run a report that was taking forever. It is a lot
of data so I expected it to timeout. The owner says he has successfully run
the report before. I shelled in and found MySql was using 98.3% of the CPU and
I think 4.7% of Memory.
I restarted MySql and the load went down to nothing.
While I was in there I noticed we have 513764k of RAM, and we were using almost
all of it and we were using some swap as well.
Here is what I just pulled off the system.
top - 11:12:54 up 229 days, 20:08, 3 users, load average: 0.21, 0.16, 0.07
Tasks: 80 total, 2 running, 78 sleeping, 0 stopped, 0 zombie
Cpu(s): 1.0%us, 0.3%sy, 0.0%ni, 95.7%id, 0.0%wa, 3.0%hi, 0.0%si, 0.0%st
Mem:513764k total, 506652k used, 7112k free, 4904k buffers
Swap: 3723784k total,32276k used, 3691508k free, 311520k cached
This raises a number of questions:
1) What could cause the MySql server to start using so much CPU? After a
restart we ran the report again and the CPU usage was much less. The report
still timed out.
2) I'm wondering if more RAM would make the system more responsive? I've seen
the benefits of RAM first hand but not in how it would speed up a web server.
3) The report we were running gave no indication of timing out. I'm wondering
how the following PHP.ini directives come into play:
- max_execution_time = 30 : In seconds. Why would the script appear to keep
working?
- max_input_time = 60 : Same question as above.
I'm wondering if setting the memory - ini_set('memory_limit', '64M'); in that
app, if that would help much and if I extend the time if that might help -
ini_set('max_execution_time',240); along with ini_set(max_input_time, 240) ?
Thanks in advance for your help!
Keith Smith
---
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Re: PHP Script timing out and MySql using almost all the CPU and RAM questions
Thanks, I had not thought of the log. I think it is turned on already.
Thanks again!
Keith Smith
--- On Wed, 7/8/09, Joshua Zeidner jjzeid...@gmail.com wrote:
From: Joshua Zeidner jjzeid...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: PHP Script timing out and MySql using almost all the CPU and RAM
questions
To: Main PLUG discussion list plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
Date: Wednesday, July 8, 2009, 12:23 PM
sounds like you have either a
MySQl bug or a problem query. Turn on
query logging and get the query that is causing the problem
and post
it here.
-jmz
On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 12:21 PM, keith smithklsmith2...@yahoo.com
wrote:
Hi Everyone,
I do support for an online store.
Last night we were trying to run a report that was
taking forever. It is a lot of data so I expected it to
timeout. The owner says he has successfully run the report
before. I shelled in and found MySql was using 98.3% of
the CPU and I think 4.7% of Memory.
I restarted MySql and the load went down to nothing.
While I was in there I noticed we have 513764k of RAM,
and we were using almost all of it and we were using some
swap as well.
Here is what I just pulled off the system.
top - 11:12:54 up 229 days, 20:08, 3 users, load
average: 0.21, 0.16, 0.07
Tasks: 80 total, 2 running, 78 sleeping, 0
stopped, 0 zombie
Cpu(s): 1.0%us, 0.3%sy, 0.0%ni, 95.7%id,
0.0%wa, 3.0%hi, 0.0%si, 0.0%st
Mem: 513764k total, 506652k used, 7112k
free, 4904k buffers
Swap: 3723784k total, 32276k used, 3691508k
free, 311520k cached
This raises a number of questions:
1) What could cause the MySql server to start using so
much CPU? After a restart we ran the report again and the
CPU usage was much less. The report still timed out.
2) I'm wondering if more RAM would make the system
more responsive? I've seen the benefits of RAM first hand
but not in how it would speed up a web server.
3) The report we were running gave no indication of
timing out. I'm wondering how the following PHP.ini
directives come into play:
- max_execution_time = 30 : In seconds. Why would
the script appear to keep working?
- max_input_time = 60 : Same question as above.
I'm wondering if setting the memory -
ini_set('memory_limit', '64M'); in that app, if that would
help much and if I extend the time if that might help -
ini_set('max_execution_time',240); along with
ini_set(max_input_time, 240) ?
Thanks in advance for your help!
Keith Smith
---
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Re: PHP Script timing out and MySql using almost all the CPU and RAM questions
More RAM would certainly help as well. Its minimum requirements is 100MB,
but 1GB would probably be a good minimum, especially with the prices of
memory these days.
Eric
On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 12:23 PM, Joshua Zeidner jjzeid...@gmail.com wrote:
sounds like you have either a MySQl bug or a problem query. Turn on
query logging and get the query that is causing the problem and post
it here.
-jmz
On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 12:21 PM, keith smithklsmith2...@yahoo.com wrote:
Hi Everyone,
I do support for an online store.
Last night we were trying to run a report that was taking forever. It is
a lot of data so I expected it to timeout. The owner says he has
successfully run the report before. I shelled in and found MySql was using
98.3% of the CPU and I think 4.7% of Memory.
I restarted MySql and the load went down to nothing.
While I was in there I noticed we have 513764k of RAM, and we were using
almost all of it and we were using some swap as well.
Here is what I just pulled off the system.
top - 11:12:54 up 229 days, 20:08, 3 users, load average: 0.21, 0.16,
0.07
Tasks: 80 total, 2 running, 78 sleeping, 0 stopped, 0 zombie
Cpu(s): 1.0%us, 0.3%sy, 0.0%ni, 95.7%id, 0.0%wa, 3.0%hi, 0.0%si,
0.0%st
Mem:513764k total, 506652k used, 7112k free, 4904k buffers
Swap: 3723784k total,32276k used, 3691508k free, 311520k cached
This raises a number of questions:
1) What could cause the MySql server to start using so much CPU? After a
restart we ran the report again and the CPU usage was much less. The report
still timed out.
2) I'm wondering if more RAM would make the system more responsive? I've
seen the benefits of RAM first hand but not in how it would speed up a web
server.
3) The report we were running gave no indication of timing out. I'm
wondering how the following PHP.ini directives come into play:
- max_execution_time = 30 : In seconds. Why would the script appear to
keep working?
- max_input_time = 60 : Same question as above.
I'm wondering if setting the memory - ini_set('memory_limit', '64M'); in
that app, if that would help much and if I extend the time if that might
help - ini_set('max_execution_time',240); along with
ini_set(max_input_time, 240) ?
Thanks in advance for your help!
Keith Smith
---
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--
Eric Cope
http://cope-et-al.com
---
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Re: PHP Script timing out and MySql using almost all the CPU and RAM questions
In generic terms the database 101 class would say analyze your query to see if
you can finagle the efficiency. A lot of reports link queries at the
report/sub-report level, so look at the algorithm there.
It is EASY to have a critical report that brings a system to its knees.
Therefore, with any scale and $, DBAs replicate data from the transaction
server to a report server. The report server doubles as a backup.
Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel
-Original Message-
From: Joshua Zeidner jjzeid...@gmail.com
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 12:23:15
To: Main PLUG discussion listplug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
Subject: Re: PHP Script timing out and MySql using almost all the CPU and RAM
questions
sounds like you have either a MySQl bug or a problem query. Turn on
query logging and get the query that is causing the problem and post
it here.
-jmz
On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 12:21 PM, keith smithklsmith2...@yahoo.com wrote:
Hi Everyone,
I do support for an online store.
Last night we were trying to run a report that was taking forever. It is a
lot of data so I expected it to timeout. The owner says he has successfully
run the report before. I shelled in and found MySql was using 98.3% of the
CPU and I think 4.7% of Memory.
I restarted MySql and the load went down to nothing.
While I was in there I noticed we have 513764k of RAM, and we were using
almost all of it and we were using some swap as well.
Here is what I just pulled off the system.
top - 11:12:54 up 229 days, 20:08, 3 users, load average: 0.21, 0.16, 0.07
Tasks: 80 total, 2 running, 78 sleeping, 0 stopped, 0 zombie
Cpu(s): 1.0%us, 0.3%sy, 0.0%ni, 95.7%id, 0.0%wa, 3.0%hi, 0.0%si, 0.0%st
Mem: 513764k total, 506652k used, 7112k free, 4904k buffers
Swap: 3723784k total, 32276k used, 3691508k free, 311520k cached
This raises a number of questions:
1) What could cause the MySql server to start using so much CPU? After a
restart we ran the report again and the CPU usage was much less. The report
still timed out.
2) I'm wondering if more RAM would make the system more responsive? I've
seen the benefits of RAM first hand but not in how it would speed up a web
server.
3) The report we were running gave no indication of timing out. I'm wondering
how the following PHP.ini directives come into play:
- max_execution_time = 30 : In seconds. Why would the script appear to keep
working?
- max_input_time = 60 : Same question as above.
I'm wondering if setting the memory - ini_set('memory_limit', '64M'); in that
app, if that would help much and if I extend the time if that might help -
ini_set('max_execution_time',240); along with ini_set(max_input_time, 240)
?
Thanks in advance for your help!
Keith Smith
---
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Re: Google Chrome OS on Linux
I've been reading the articles as they have hit the web about Google OS. Well I guess we know when there will be Linux version of Chrome. LOL Google has used and provided many services based on FOSS, but they're still a business and they have competitors. One majorly fierce one being m$. So they are going to protect what ground they have covered. I like Gmail, I have it and have had it since they started. I like the sites portion of Google and have a web site on it. On my computer I use a /etc/hosts list from Bluetack. I also use F/F privacy protection extensions which not only prevent Google but other companies from tracking me based on cookies in the browser, and in case you didn't know cookies from Flash applications, videos that run in said browser that aren't deleted when you delete histories, etc. However, in any business information/knowledge is power. The have tons of ad-sense slots, they track every thing you search on, they use keyword searchers to target emails. Piece by piece putting a complete user picture of its demographical areas. I think this trend is dangerous. I have email, but I only have so much email on my acct that I can afford to lose if they up and decide to shut down access to my account. Which they can do without cause. I have backups of my contacts. On my website with them I have the originals so I can rebuild if necessary. Okay, you say they do daily backups. Try to get ahold of a real person if your email account is locked. It just won't happen. Once data leaves my machine it is public domain. There is NO right to privacy with anything sent out in the open. Which is why I personally sign all my email and encrypt where possible. Then that data is useless to them because they can't catergorize it. Having your business out in a cloud Are they going to pay your taxes for you and generate leads. Probably not. And whats to stop the data as it travels between servers of somebody harvesting something and getting your leads. Trash diggers do it. Well so do the dataminers. They are all in the same class. Yes its Supposed to be Open Source.. Mozilla is open source but it is under Mozilla License. I couldn't change their databases, or the manner in which they are organzied like I can with a local copy. Handing control of my information to a company that is faceless doesn't quite ring right with me. Vi^3PP signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Laptop (cell phone) in my pocket?
It might have, i know the top end of the dial was 9800 (written in pen) but the low end might have been 300) On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 9:35 AM, Eric Shuberte...@shubes.net wrote: Stephen wrote: Technically First was a Custom Made S100 that my dad had created for working from home from spare parts at work, it has a modem that was manually adjusted from 400-9800 baud modem and some weird collection of cards doing things 2 terminals via serial and a pair of 8in floppy drives... I'm guessing that it was probably 300-9600 baud (I don't think 400-9800 were valid values). I used to connect to a mainframe at 300 baud for support. Slow, but faster than driving into work. I paid $750 for a 9600 baud modem when they were the fastest available. Ouch! -- -Eric 'shubes' --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss -- A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you from rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button. Stephen --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: PHP Script timing out and MySql using almost all the CPU and RAM questions
for a webstore i would run about 1gb of ram unless it was a small
userbase, just for the reports to run in a timely manner.
I know here we tie into our MS_SQL collections Database and run huge
and byzantine reports and procedures from PHP because its the best
interface we have found for them, but they often take a very long time
to run so instead we run an Ajax wrapper of sorts to kind of keep the
thing running in either digestible amounts or just kind of sidestep
the hazard of the timeout.
and a report server is very good if you have no regular backup.
On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 12:42 PM, tship...@deru.com wrote:
In generic terms the database 101 class would say analyze your query to see
if you can finagle the efficiency. A lot of reports link queries at the
report/sub-report level, so look at the algorithm there.
It is EASY to have a critical report that brings a system to its knees.
Therefore, with any scale and $, DBAs replicate data from the transaction
server to a report server. The report server doubles as a backup.
Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel
-Original Message-
From: Joshua Zeidner jjzeid...@gmail.com
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 12:23:15
To: Main PLUG discussion listplug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
Subject: Re: PHP Script timing out and MySql using almost all the CPU and RAM
questions
sounds like you have either a MySQl bug or a problem query. Turn on
query logging and get the query that is causing the problem and post
it here.
-jmz
On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 12:21 PM, keith smithklsmith2...@yahoo.com wrote:
Hi Everyone,
I do support for an online store.
Last night we were trying to run a report that was taking forever. It is a
lot of data so I expected it to timeout. The owner says he has successfully
run the report before. I shelled in and found MySql was using 98.3% of the
CPU and I think 4.7% of Memory.
I restarted MySql and the load went down to nothing.
While I was in there I noticed we have 513764k of RAM, and we were using
almost all of it and we were using some swap as well.
Here is what I just pulled off the system.
top - 11:12:54 up 229 days, 20:08, 3 users, load average: 0.21, 0.16, 0.07
Tasks: 80 total, 2 running, 78 sleeping, 0 stopped, 0 zombie
Cpu(s): 1.0%us, 0.3%sy, 0.0%ni, 95.7%id, 0.0%wa, 3.0%hi, 0.0%si,
0.0%st
Mem: 513764k total, 506652k used, 7112k free, 4904k buffers
Swap: 3723784k total, 32276k used, 3691508k free, 311520k cached
This raises a number of questions:
1) What could cause the MySql server to start using so much CPU? After a
restart we ran the report again and the CPU usage was much less. The report
still timed out.
2) I'm wondering if more RAM would make the system more responsive? I've
seen the benefits of RAM first hand but not in how it would speed up a web
server.
3) The report we were running gave no indication of timing out. I'm
wondering how the following PHP.ini directives come into play:
- max_execution_time = 30 : In seconds. Why would the script appear to keep
working?
- max_input_time = 60 : Same question as above.
I'm wondering if setting the memory - ini_set('memory_limit', '64M'); in
that app, if that would help much and if I extend the time if that might
help - ini_set('max_execution_time',240); along with
ini_set(max_input_time, 240) ?
Thanks in advance for your help!
Keith Smith
---
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--
A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you from
rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button.
Stephen
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IPCop and Wireless Cards
Anyone have any ideas on how to get a wireless card to work with IPCop? Its a Prism based card and is not recognized by the probe installation mechanism. Thanks, -- Eric Cope http://cope-et-al.com --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Old computer users (Was: Re: Laptop (cell phone) in my pocket?)
On Jul 8, 2009, at 9:37 AM, Alan Dayley wrote: True history is vastly important. The trouble here is that history is always written by someone. It is, by definition, an *interpretation* of past events. A history that does nothing but report facts is incomplete and deceptive in its own right. Events have meaning in context, and without that context, the meaning is lost. It's the job of the historian (like a journalist) to present a fair portrait of the events which occurred, and to make an argument about their meaning. Presenting incorrect facts is of course wrong, as is presenting a controversial/unusual interpretation as uncontroversial. I'm not saying you can just make this stuff up, because you can't and informed people won't let you get away with it. But, I think it's only possible to talk about 'true' history if you take a very simplistic view of what a historian does. regards, alex ps - So... history was my field before I got into programming. Fun to see it pop up here. PGP.sig Description: This is a digitally signed message part --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: PHP Script timing out and MySql using almost all the CPU and RAM questions
MySQL using 99% of CPU running a massive query doesn't sound unusual. If that's killing your production app, look into setting up a replication slave, and point your reporting queries at the slave. It's not too hard to set up. http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/replication.html On Jul 8, 2009, at 2:21 PM, keith smith wrote: 1) What could cause the MySql server to start using so much CPU? After a restart we ran the report again and the CPU usage was much less. The report still timed out. Have you tried EXPLAIN on your query? That will help you spot where it could be optimized. http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/explain.html 3) The report we were running gave no indication of timing out. I'm wondering how the following PHP.ini directives come into play: - max_execution_time = 30 : In seconds. Why would the script appear to keep working? That only limits PHP's execution time. Time spent waiting for external resources (like mysql) don't count against that limit. http://us3.php.net/manual/en/info.configuration.php#ini.max-execution-time - max_input_time = 60 : Same question as above. I think that's the time you'll allow PHP to accept input from the user. Usually only comes into play with large file uploads, I think. (Hazier on this one, though...) http://us3.php.net/manual/en/info.configuration.php#ini.max-input-time PGP.sig Description: This is a digitally signed message part --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Google Chrome OS on Linux
I think this is just a natural evolution of society, as we give up some things in the name of convenience the idea of them building this doesn't bother me, it just is a tailored use of a Linux kernel for a specific task. will i ever use it? no i do too many weird thigns on my home computer but will it make sense for someone who needs a netbook for homework and email or surfing.. yes... for those of you who take some significant steps to ensure your privacy, good for you, i applaud your efforts and will support your ability to take them but will i personally go to that length? no. but i also take into account that my life is partially visible, and ultimately nothing i am not prepared to have possibly seen to the outside world go into that communication. if i really care about the information ill meet face to face in a private location. i think what Google is doing is making a series of tools for not jsut heir benefit but for the benefit of others. i set up one of my security guards on ubuntu because all he needed was some word processing youtube email and the web... this Google OS would be rather perfect for him. but this in no way is even close to an end of FOSS and open source is becoming popular for a number of reasons form code wuality to just plain free as in the air you breathe. --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Old computer users (Was: Re: Laptop (cell phone) in my pocket?)
Having grown up with a historian (by education if not profession) history is only complete when as many people as possible record their thoughts... sadly it is usually the winner the gets to write things down. but like anything else said it is subjective, the skill and art of it is compareing as many different possible views to paint a picture... and even in as honest a representation as we can imagine you and i are still slanted by our own understanding of a series of events even without guile or deciet. On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 2:01 PM, Alex Deana...@crackpot.org wrote: On Jul 8, 2009, at 9:37 AM, Alan Dayley wrote: True history is vastly important. The trouble here is that history is always written by someone. It is, by definition, an *interpretation* of past events. A history that does nothing but report facts is incomplete and deceptive in its own right. Events have meaning in context, and without that context, the meaning is lost. It's the job of the historian (like a journalist) to present a fair portrait of the events which occurred, and to make an argument about their meaning. Presenting incorrect facts is of course wrong, as is presenting a controversial/unusual interpretation as uncontroversial. I'm not saying you can just make this stuff up, because you can't and informed people won't let you get away with it. But, I think it's only possible to talk about 'true' history if you take a very simplistic view of what a historian does. regards, alex ps - So... history was my field before I got into programming. Fun to see it pop up here. --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss -- A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you from rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button. Stephen --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Google Chrome OS on Linux
On Wednesday 08 July 2009 2:25:40 Tuna wrote: Top posting as a crazed act of revenge, Open Source is almost trendy, largely because of Google and their Android platform. You can't be serious? Most people still have no idea what Open Source is! Consumers certainly could care less what their devices and computers are running, provided the interface is attractive and they can do what they want to accomplish with ease. Now netbook owners everywhere will brag about their Linux-based open source operating system, forgetting the freedoms they give up with could computing. What freedoms are they giving up exactly? Remember that they're coming from Windows are OS X more than likely... not to mention all the technologies Google has already created that move things like storage etc to the computer rather than staying on the server. Not to mention, most aren't programmers anyways, so being able to look at the code and tweak it means diddly to them. Application oriented companies will never open source everything, Google will not push that on them via ChromeOS. Many companies are already coming out with web based alternatives to their apps, and I expect with HTML5 for the lines to basically go away with relation to what can and can't go into the browser. Qt for instance is porting their toolkit entirely onto the web, Adobe has released web based apps for their popular software too, even Microsoft is rumored to be creating a web based MS Office. To my way of thinking, this is a dream come true for Linux... finally a Linux OS will not have to say oh, we don't have photoshop, but we have gimp... you'll get used to its interface eventually, I promise... this doesn't go over well when that user has spent 10+ years working with Photoshop. I guess that's all we can do, get creative web people on our side, using the AGPL. See, that's just it, people CAN open source web apps too, and you provide a license that explicitly is designed for this purpose. I don't see how that is any different from the current situation where some people use FOSS licenses but most don't for their software? It's just now the web is powerful enough to move everything there, in a standards based way, and without performance hits. --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Google Chrome OS on Linux
Even with the Affero, it doesn't really help the regular user without a webserver or anything to run a webservice on. Red Hat is assisting with this already, as are Ubuntu and others. Sure they'll have to significantly boost their resources to provide the services, but what kind of successful company wouldn't plan for that? A lot of companies are already moving to such paradigms anyways simply because I think the industry is sick of porting everything. How do you deal with, if you somehow find a way to allow the users' modifications to run on the software developer's dataset (as it should!) without the risk of comprimising others' data. I don't see how this would differ much from current methods? Use a VCS and don't immediately throw everything up on the site - much like how Launchpad has beta.launchpad.net and doesn't point people there for the most part. Virtualization could play a huge part here, but it is only half the battle. Virtualization will play a huge role in managing things, for instance oVirt from Red Hat already is capable of managing cloud based systems as well as virtualized locally... I think you're overthinking the complexity of developing a web app though... it really isn't different from local apps, just don't put things up that aren't yet released... --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Google Chrome OS on Linux
And so begins the destruction of Free software :( Moving to the cloud (using the linux kernel, no less!) will only make it easier to provide closed and proprietary systems to the user. Sure, they may be free as in beer, but try getting a hold of the sourcecode for gmail, or flickr, or facebook. You can't. Yet, these dominate the world of even GNU/Linux free software nuts. The web is not as open and free of a place that the world makes it out to be. All in all, a scary turn, and I fear that google is silently breaking its don't be evil mantra, though its doing it in the slyest and most profound way: By using free software against itself. I suppose it's time to do as Bob Elzer says and be a real man and set up dIMAP account on KMail... A sad day, imo, Ryan The entire system will be open sourced, so everything necessary for innovation will be available to developers. I've never really sold into the whole Open Source EVERYTHING! mantra, I simply don't care provided the software strictly adheres to standards. With the platform being the web, it will be sort of difficult for that not to happen. If you limit yourself to open source software, you're doing yourself an injustice. Either way though, this means a lot more Google engineers directly contributing to the Linux kernel and other important technology, so it's a win for everyone. Not every company wants to open up their code, that will never change, even if they become the minority. What ever happened to Best tool for the job? I'm not saying web apps will always fit that bill, but making poor choices based solely on an idealistic belief isn't particularly smart if you ask me. I'm personally thoroughly looking forward to trying the new OS, and I hope they deliver considerable innovation - I've been using the same software paradigms for 20 years, it's about time someone rethinks the operating system! As an aside, I think current Linux companies will start to align themselves with this new initiative... people like IBM, Oracle, and Red Hat must be salivating knowing they already have the infrastructure and offerings to cover a lot of what will be needed to manage and host custom web apps while not having to compete with native apps on this platform. I predict everyone in the industry not affiliated with Microsoft will be extremely happy, and I hope it speeds up the adoption of many of the HTML5 additions like the canvas functionality. There is no reason web apps can't be just as powerful as native apps... especially with Native Client and Google Gears moving a lot of the overhead onto the PC rather than sticking to the browser and server for everything. Then, nothing has officially been presented about the OS yet, just an announcement, so only time will tell I suppose. --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Google Chrome OS on Linux
I think the google OS will possibly be a VERY cool thing, in that it'll have new back end underpinnings based on the work Google has been doing in-house for years. It could be as revolutionary as another core distro with it's own way of doing things, maybe even a whole new package management system. But it will be set up initially as web centric and hence stripped down a lot. If they do everything right, us geeks will be able to add back in the local-processing-type-apps we want. Worst case, doing so would mean a forked project, the way Ubuntu forked off of Debian. Thing is, if you're doing a whole new distro from scratch and you've got Google's resources behind it, you could get really wild. Put in the best of everything: the rebootless kernel updates of ksplice, Ext4 or something even cooler, etc. And if it's stripped down for web only, so what? Extend from there. Extending UP from a small base is safer and simpler than chopping downwards from a bloated mess! Jim --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: PHP Script timing out and MySql using almost all the CPU and RAM questions
tship...@deru.com wrote:
In generic terms the database 101 class would say analyze your query to see
if you can finagle the efficiency. A lot of reports link queries at the
report/sub-report level, so look at the algorithm there.
It is EASY to have a critical report that brings a system to its knees.
Therefore, with any scale and $, DBAs replicate data from the transaction
server to a report server. The report server doubles as a backup.
Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel
-Original Message-
From: Joshua Zeidner jjzeid...@gmail.com
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 12:23:15
To: Main PLUG discussion listplug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
Subject: Re: PHP Script timing out and MySql using almost all the CPU and RAM
questions
sounds like you have either a MySQl bug or a problem query. Turn on
query logging and get the query that is causing the problem and post
it here.
-jmz
On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 12:21 PM, keith smithklsmith2...@yahoo.com wrote:
Hi Everyone,
I do support for an online store.
Last night we were trying to run a report that was taking forever. It is a
lot of data so I expected it to timeout. The owner says he has successfully
run the report before. I shelled in and found MySql was using 98.3% of the
CPU and I think 4.7% of Memory.
I restarted MySql and the load went down to nothing.
While I was in there I noticed we have 513764k of RAM, and we were using
almost all of it and we were using some swap as well.
Here is what I just pulled off the system.
top - 11:12:54 up 229 days, 20:08, 3 users, load average: 0.21, 0.16, 0.07
Tasks: 80 total, 2 running, 78 sleeping, 0 stopped, 0 zombie
Cpu(s): 1.0%us, 0.3%sy, 0.0%ni, 95.7%id, 0.0%wa, 3.0%hi, 0.0%si,
0.0%st
Mem:513764k total, 506652k used, 7112k free, 4904k buffers
Swap: 3723784k total,32276k used, 3691508k free, 311520k cached
This raises a number of questions:
1) What could cause the MySql server to start using so much CPU? After a
restart we ran the report again and the CPU usage was much less. The report
still timed out.
2) I'm wondering if more RAM would make the system more responsive? I've
seen the benefits of RAM first hand but not in how it would speed up a web
server.
3) The report we were running gave no indication of timing out. I'm
wondering how the following PHP.ini directives come into play:
- max_execution_time = 30 : In seconds. Why would the script appear to keep
working?
- max_input_time = 60 : Same question as above.
I'm wondering if setting the memory - ini_set('memory_limit', '64M'); in
that app, if that would help much and if I extend the time if that might
help - ini_set('max_execution_time',240); along with
ini_set(max_input_time, 240) ?
Thanks in advance for your help!
Keith Smith
I've used that strategy numerous times. Depending on the query, adding
an addition key/index can sometimes reduce reporting utilization
substantially.
--
-Eric 'shubes'
---
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Re: PHP Script timing out and MySql using almost all the CPU and RAM questions
On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 5:02 PM, Eric Shubert e...@shubes.net wrote:
tship...@deru.com wrote:
In generic terms the database 101 class would say analyze your query to
see if you can finagle the efficiency. A lot of reports link queries at the
report/sub-report level, so look at the algorithm there.
It is EASY to have a critical report that brings a system to its knees.
Therefore, with any scale and $, DBAs replicate data from the transaction
server to a report server. The report server doubles as a backup.
Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel
-Original Message-
From: Joshua Zeidner jjzeid...@gmail.com
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 12:23:15
To: Main PLUG discussion listplug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
Subject: Re: PHP Script timing out and MySql using almost all the CPU and
RAM
questions
sounds like you have either a MySQl bug or a problem query. Turn on
query logging and get the query that is causing the problem and post
it here.
-jmz
On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 12:21 PM, keith smithklsmith2...@yahoo.com
wrote:
Hi Everyone,
I do support for an online store.
Last night we were trying to run a report that was taking forever. It
is a lot of data so I expected it to timeout. The owner says he has
successfully run the report before. I shelled in and found MySql was using
98.3% of the CPU and I think 4.7% of Memory.
I restarted MySql and the load went down to nothing.
While I was in there I noticed we have 513764k of RAM, and we were using
almost all of it and we were using some swap as well.
Here is what I just pulled off the system.
top - 11:12:54 up 229 days, 20:08, 3 users, load average: 0.21, 0.16,
0.07
Tasks: 80 total, 2 running, 78 sleeping, 0 stopped, 0 zombie
Cpu(s): 1.0%us, 0.3%sy, 0.0%ni, 95.7%id, 0.0%wa, 3.0%hi, 0.0%si,
0.0%st
Mem:513764k total, 506652k used, 7112k free, 4904k buffers
Swap: 3723784k total,32276k used, 3691508k free, 311520k cached
This raises a number of questions:
1) What could cause the MySql server to start using so much CPU? After
a restart we ran the report again and the CPU usage was much less. The
report still timed out.
2) I'm wondering if more RAM would make the system more responsive?
I've seen the benefits of RAM first hand but not in how it would speed up a
web server.
3) The report we were running gave no indication of timing out. I'm
wondering how the following PHP.ini directives come into play:
- max_execution_time = 30 : In seconds. Why would the script appear to
keep working?
- max_input_time = 60 : Same question as above.
I'm wondering if setting the memory - ini_set('memory_limit', '64M'); in
that app, if that would help much and if I extend the time if that might
help - ini_set('max_execution_time',240); along with
ini_set(max_input_time, 240) ?
Thanks in advance for your help!
Keith Smith
I've used that strategy numerous times. Depending on the query, adding
an addition key/index can sometimes reduce reporting utilization
substantially.
--
-Eric 'shubes'
---
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Reports server is generally the best bet, I agree.
Since the database is essentially the back end of a fluid stream, your web
processing and user experience can be vastly improved through standard
performance tuning:
Use the source my friend:
http://forums.mysql.com/read.php?24,92131,92131
And be sure to run a fine http://portswigger.net/proxy/ Burp scan against
your queries before production, just in case.
--
(623)239-3392 Skype: obn0sis
(503)754-4452 www.obnosis.com
---
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OK, I want a bare bones motherboard. Does it exist?
I run my firewall off of a motherboard with video and sound and drive controllers and what not list of useless (for my application) components. My dream motherboard would be one with an Ethernet adapter, at least 3 PCI (or PCIe) buses so I can plug in 3 NICs, and a couple of USB ports to stick a USB drive to run the system from. Does such a thing exist? Thanks! ET --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Google Chrome OS on Linux
On Wed 8 July 2009 4:06:14 pm Francis Earl wrote: The entire system will be open sourced, so everything necessary for innovation will be available to developers. I've never really sold into the whole Open Source EVERYTHING! mantra, I simply don't care provided the software strictly adheres to standards. With the platform being the web, it will be sort of difficult for that not to happen. If you limit yourself to open source software, you're doing yourself an injustice. And there, m'lad, is the difference between you and I: I think you are doing yourself an injustice by limiting your freedoms. I think you're doing yourself an injustice by relying on 3rd parties for everything, and have no freedom to adapt the software to your needs, no freedom to use the software as you please... But, hey, the freedom to give up your freedom is indeed a freedom. I'm oldschool like that; I think I would have a hell of a fun time at MIT's AI Lab; I was probably born in the wrong decade. But, software, to me, is befitting of the (early) american ideal that all men (developers and users) are created equal. As long as they are white and landowning males. ;D Ryan --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
cheese failing silently
It used to work on this machine. What happens now is that it comes up, displays the user interface and then goes away. The only thing I have been able to find is the following message in auth.log: Jul 8 17:42:03 damselfish dbus-daemon: Rejected send message, 1 matched rules; type=method_call, sender=:1.34 (uid=1000 pid=3831 comm=/usr/lib/indicator-applet/indicator-applet --oaf-a) interface=org.freedesktop.DBus.Properties member=Get error name=(unset) requested_reply=0 destination=:1.57 (uid=1000 pid=6093 comm=cheese )) but I have no clue what too do about it. -- Dazed_75 a.k.a. Larry The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions, that I wish it always to be kept alive. - Thomas Jefferson --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
HackFest Series: Adding BackTrack Repositories to Ubuntu
Adding BackTrack Repositories to Ubuntu GNOME: Goto System Administration Software Sources Click on the Third-Party Software tab and then on Add Insert this line and hit Add Source: Code: deb http://repo.offensive-security.com/dist/bt4 binary/ You may need to check the box next to the newly added repository; you will have to Reload your Package Information by hitting Reload when a box comes up whining that your software info is out-of-date. Goto ADD TERM: Add this line to the end of /etc/apt/sources.list Code: deb http://repo.offensive-security.com/dist/bt4 binary/ Then run 'sudo apt-get update' to update your systems repository. Goto ADD ADD: You may now apt-get any backtrack package as you would any ubuntu package. Issues I have had are that a key is missing for accessing repo.offensive-security.com packages, but the key can be added manually. I'm not sure if this actually causes any package problems other than a message each time you reload your repo's. Key Error: Code: W: GPG error: http://repo.offensive-security.com binary/ Release: The following signiture couldn't be verified because the public key is not available: NO_PUBKEY 720DB78AC5717CD1 Should work fine on a persistent Ubuntu jumpdrive, as added tools. Be sure to change your ubuntu and root passwords on your LiveCD and persistent USB keys! -- (623)239-3392 Skype: obn0sis (503)754-4452 www.obnosis.com --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: call for ABLEconf volunteers (fwd)
Am 08. Jul, 2009 schwätzte Mike Schwartz so: moin moin Mike, I participate in the Phoenix Chapter ACM. That org has been inactive lately -- but it does have a valid 501(c)3 technically. That org might want to have a booth, or something, at the ABLEconf. Please include me for a Cc of any news. Thanks for volunteering again this year. Please add Phoenix Chapter ACM to the wiki and you as the contact. http://www.ABLEconf.com/wiki/index.php?title=2009Phx/Promotion As it says at the top of that page, you'll need to join the promo-announce mailing list in order to get the promo announcements that are available for dispersement. http://lists.ABLEconf.com/listinfo.cgi/promo-announce-ableconf.com ciao, der.hans -- # http://www.LuftHans.com/http://www.LuftHans.com/Classes/ # Life is pain, Highness! Anyone who says differently is selling something. # -- Dread Pirate Roberts in The Princess Bride--- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: HackFest Series: Adding BackTrack Repositories to Ubuntu
Will you please explain (in 50 or so words or less) the difference between backtrack and backport repositories? Lisa Kachold wrote: Adding BackTrack Repositories to Ubuntu GNOME: Goto System Administration Software Sources Click on the Third-Party Software tab and then on Add Insert this line and hit Add Source: Code: deb http://repo.offensive-security.com/dist/bt4 binary/ You may need to check the box next to the newly added repository; you will have to Reload your Package Information by hitting Reload when a box comes up whining that your software info is out-of-date. Goto ADD TERM: Add this line to the end of /etc/apt/sources.list Code: deb http://repo.offensive-security.com/dist/bt4 binary/ Then run 'sudo apt-get update' to update your systems repository. Goto ADD ADD: You may now apt-get any backtrack package as you would any ubuntu package. Issues I have had are that a key is missing for accessing repo.offensive-security.com http://repo.offensive-security.com packages, but the key can be added manually. I'm not sure if this actually causes any package problems other than a message each time you reload your repo's. Key Error: Code: W: GPG error: http://repo.offensive-security.com binary/ Release: The following signiture couldn't be verified because the public key is not available: NO_PUBKEY 720DB78AC5717CD1 Should work fine on a persistent Ubuntu jumpdrive, as added tools. Be sure to change your ubuntu and root passwords on your LiveCD and persistent USB keys! -- (623)239-3392 Skype: obn0sis (503)754-4452 www.obnosis.com http://www.obnosis.com -- -Eric 'shubes' --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Old computer users (Was: Re: Laptop (cell phone) in my pocket?)
I just disconnected a 1987-model keyboard from my desktop. Not out of any fault of the keyboard, but the PS/2-USB adapter acted wonky (inserting phantom keystrokes). I pine for the days when computers took entire racks and intimidated people. -Original Message- From: Bob Elzer bob.el...@gmail.com To: 'Main PLUG discussion list' plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us Sent: Tue, Jul 7, 2009 9:04 pm Subject: RE: Old computer users (Was: Re: Laptop (cell phone) in my pocket?) I had one of those. Dual floppies, and I had visicalc when I was looking to buy my van. When the salesman said he could get my payments down to $200 dollars a month, I took the laptop out, plugged in the $200 and I told him he just cost me $5000 dollars. (over the life of the loan) He fell off his chair !!! -Original Message- From: plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us [mailto:plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us] On Behalf Of Alan Dayley Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 8:56 PM To: Main PLUG discussion list Subject: Re: Old computer users (Was: Re: Laptop (cell phone) in my pocket?) On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 8:31 PM, Ryan Rixphrkonale...@gmail.com wrote: Thank you for changing the subject line ;) The funny thing about all of this, and talking to the retro hacker guy who sits next to me at work, is that I know what all of you are talking about, and I'm only 17. Not sure that's depressing or not xD I guess that's what happens when you have the Jargon file and various 'history' books and lore saved to your desktop and your pda for idle reading ;) History in general is vastly important, despite how it is treated in most schools. The history of our technology is more important every day as it inserts itself deeper into our lives. The history of computers is important to me because it feeds the wonder I still feel for it after 20+ years working with it. I'm glad you are learning and appreciating history at such a young age. It will be a powerful source of inspiration in years to come. An important history lesson from Eben Moglen, attorney and historian, can be found in his keynote speech at the Red Hat Summit of 2006. Watch it from a link at http://www.redhat.com/promo/summit/videos/ Learn that copyright and patents were not about making people wealthy but were a successful tool to attract innovated people to the young United States! All this talk of old stuff makes me want to fire up my Zenith ZFL-181 laptop (http://www.1000bit.it/scheda.asp?id=1523) I paid $2500.00 for in 1986. Yes, mine still works just fine. Alan --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: HackFest Series: Adding BackTrack Repositories to Ubuntu
Backtrack is a security pentesting LiveCD/installation package built upon Ubuntu similar debian linux distribution. Backtrack maintains it's own package repository of a great number of working tools for top down or bottom up security testing, and exploits that provide a way to think outside of the current matrix, see OSI layers in action, and learn: - Metasploit (vulnerability tester) - Snort (intrusion detection/prevention) - Hping (packet shaper) - Nmap (fe gui included) - Xprobe2 (OS identifier) - Cisco Auditing Tool - Curl - Httprint (and GUI) - Lynx (bare-bones browser) - Nikto (awesome free Web site vulnerability scanner) - SQL Scanner - Milw0rm archive - Dsniff - Ettercap - Hydra (password guesser) - John the Ripper - Wireshark (packet sniffer/analyzer) - Kismet - Airsnort - Bluesnarfer - SIPCrack - OllyDBG - Matahari - Loki - BEef Backports are packages collection in repository that provide stable work arounds for production or other systems where upgrading is not indicated. Here's the Reference for how to add 3rd party distros to Ubuntu: http://ubuntuguide.org/wiki/Ubuntu:Jaunty#Third_party_repositories HINTs: As always, if a distro link fails, it's HTTP, so you can go verify it via browser. The keys are for archive.offensive-security.com so that's where you look. The keys are good. On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 8:27 PM, Eric Shubert e...@shubes.net wrote: Will you please explain (in 50 or so words or less) the difference between backtrack and backport repositories? Lisa Kachold wrote: Adding BackTrack Repositories to Ubuntu GNOME: Goto System Administration Software Sources Click on the Third-Party Software tab and then on Add Insert this line and hit Add Source: Code: deb http://repo.offensive-security.com/dist/bt4 binary/ You may need to check the box next to the newly added repository; you will have to Reload your Package Information by hitting Reload when a box comes up whining that your software info is out-of-date. Goto ADD TERM: Add this line to the end of /etc/apt/sources.list Code: deb http://repo.offensive-security.com/dist/bt4 binary/ Then run 'sudo apt-get update' to update your systems repository. Goto ADD ADD: You may now apt-get any backtrack package as you would any ubuntu package. Issues I have had are that a key is missing for accessing repo.offensive-security.com http://repo.offensive-security.com packages, but the key can be added manually. I'm not sure if this actually causes any package problems other than a message each time you reload your repo's. Key Error: Code: W: GPG error: http://repo.offensive-security.com binary/ Release: The following signiture couldn't be verified because the public key is not available: NO_PUBKEY 720DB78AC5717CD1 Should work fine on a persistent Ubuntu jumpdrive, as added tools. Be sure to change your ubuntu and root passwords on your LiveCD and persistent USB keys! -- (623)239-3392 Skype: obn0sis (503)754-4452 www.obnosis.com http://www.obnosis.com -- -Eric 'shubes' --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss -- (623)239-3392 Skype: obn0sis (503)754-4452 www.obnosis.com --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: IPCop Network Cards
The current version of IPCop is 1.4.20, but the latest version of the OpenVPN addon only supports up to 1.4.18. Any ideas other than the obvious of running the older version? Eric On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 10:40 PM, Eric Shubert e...@shubes.net wrote: Eric Cope wrote: 2) I have a VPN server behind the firewall. Is it better to put it in the green zone and port forward the single port, or have an orange zone? Do I have to have a third network card for an orange zone? I would ditch the separate VPN server and let IPCop handle it. Stock IPCop does IPSec, and can handle OpenVPN with an addon. I've used both with success. -- -Eric 'shubes' --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss -- Eric Cope http://cope-et-al.com --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: cheese failing silently
On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 7:04 PM, Dazed_75 lthiels...@gmail.com wrote: It used to work on this machine. What happens now is that it comes up, displays the user interface and then goes away. The only thing I have been able to find is the following message in auth.log: Jul 8 17:42:03 damselfish dbus-daemon: Rejected send message, 1 matched rules; type=method_call, sender=:1.34 (uid=1000 pid=3831 comm=/usr/lib/indicator-applet/indicator-applet --oaf-a) interface=org.freedesktop.DBus.Properties member=Get error name=(unset) requested_reply=0 destination=:1.57 (uid=1000 pid=6093 comm=cheese )) Looks like a dbus-daemon indicator applet reply/send message bug. Did this start after you updated? Try to remove and re-add cheese, and make sure your usb camera is plugged in? What are your versions, please? https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-mono/2009-March/016800.html but I have no clue what too do about it. -- Dazed_75 a.k.a. Larry The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions, that I wish it always to be kept alive. - Thomas Jefferson --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss -- (623)239-3392 Skype: obn0sis (503)754-4452 www.obnosis.com --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: cheese failing silently
On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 9:30 PM, Lisa Kachold lisakach...@obnosis.comwrote:
On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 7:04 PM, Dazed_75 lthiels...@gmail.com wrote:
It used to work on this machine. What happens now is that it comes up,
displays the user interface and then goes away. The only thing I have been
able to find is the following message in auth.log:
Jul 8 17:42:03 damselfish dbus-daemon: Rejected send message, 1 matched
rules; type=method_call, sender=:1.34 (uid=1000 pid=3831
comm=/usr/lib/indicator-applet/indicator-applet --oaf-a)
interface=org.freedesktop.DBus.Properties member=Get error
name=(unset) requested_reply=0 destination=:1.57 (uid=1000 pid=6093
comm=cheese ))
Looks like a dbus-daemon indicator applet reply/send message bug.
Did this start after you updated? Try to remove and re-add cheese, and
make sure your usb camera is plugged in?
What are your versions, please?
https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-mono/2009-March/016800.html
ASUS eeePC 1000, 1 GB RAM, 40 GB SSD, Ubuntu 9.04 (not the NBR)
Linux damselfish 2.6.28-13-generic #45-Ubuntu SMP Tue Jun 30 19:49:51 UTC
2009 i686 GNU/Linux
Cheese 2.26.0-0ubuntu1
I don't know how to get the Assembly Information like in the reference you
gave.
from lshal:
udi = '/org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/fuse'
access_control.file = '/dev/fuse' (string)
access_control.type = 'camera' (string)
info.callouts.add = {'hal-acl-tool --add-device'} (string list)
info.callouts.remove = {'hal-acl-tool --remove-device'} (string list)
info.capabilities = {'access_control'} (string list)
info.parent = '/org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/pci_8086_27ac' (string)
info.subsystem = 'unknown' (string)
info.udi = '/org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/fuse' (string)
and from lsmod:
Module Size Used by
uvcvideo 63240 0
compat_ioctl32 9344 1 uvcvideo
videodev 41600 1 uvcvideo
v4l1_compat21764 2 uvcvideo,videodev
binfmt_misc16776 1
ppdev 15620 0
bridge 56340 0
stp10500 1 bridge
bnep 20224 2
input_polldev 11912 0
joydev 18368 0
asus_eee 13380 0
i2c_i801 17296 1
lp 17156 0
parport42220 2 ppdev,lp
snd_hda_intel 434100 3
snd_pcm_oss46336 0
snd_mixer_oss 22656 1 snd_pcm_oss
snd_pcm82948 2 snd_hda_intel,snd_pcm_oss
snd_seq_dummy 10756 0
snd_seq_oss37760 0
psmouse61972 0
serio_raw 13316 0
pcspkr 10496 0
snd_seq_midi 14336 0
snd_rawmidi29696 1 snd_seq_midi
iTCO_wdt 19108 0
iTCO_vendor_support11652 1 iTCO_wdt
snd_seq_midi_event 15104 2 snd_seq_oss,snd_seq_midi
snd_seq56880 6
snd_seq_dummy,snd_seq_oss,snd_seq_midi,snd_seq_midi_event
snd_timer 29704 2 snd_pcm,snd_seq
snd_seq_device 14988 5
snd_seq_dummy,snd_seq_oss,snd_seq_midi,snd_rawmidi,snd_seq
intel_agp 34108 1
rt2860sta 523352 1
agpgart42696 2 intel_agp
snd62628 15
snd_hda_intel,snd_pcm_oss,snd_mixer_oss,snd_pcm,snd_seq_oss,snd_rawmidi,snd_seq,snd_timer,snd_seq_device
soundcore 15200 1 snd
snd_page_alloc 16904 2 snd_hda_intel,snd_pcm
video 25360 0
output 11008 1 video
eeepc_laptop 18452 0
usbhid 42336 0
atl1e 40212 0
fbcon 46112 0
tileblit 10752 1 fbcon
font 16384 1 fbcon
bitblit13824 1 fbcon
softcursor 9984 1 bitblit
but I have no clue what too do about it.
--
Dazed_75 a.k.a. Larry
The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain
occasions, that I wish it always to be kept alive.
- Thomas Jefferson
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(623)239-3392 Skype: obn0sis
(503)754-4452 www.obnosis.com
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--
Dazed_75 a.k.a. Larry
The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions,
that I wish it always to be kept alive.
- Thomas Jefferson
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Re: cheese failing silently
Forgot to answer a couple of your questions. On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 9:30 PM, Lisa Kachold lisakach...@obnosis.comwrote: snip Did this start after you updated? Not sure as the only times I have used it was to check if it worked. Like for my presentation at East Side tomorrow. Try to remove and re-add cheese, Already done. and make sure your usb camera is plugged in? Its built in, but the notifier iss telling me thee camera is toggling on and offas I request. And yes, I have tried cheese in both states. Also both states following reboots. -- Dazed_75 a.k.a. Larry The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions, that I wish it always to be kept alive. - Thomas Jefferson --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
