PLUG governance, etc.

[Alan Dayley]

Another thread about the sonoran penguin and making a theme for the
website surfaced some discussion about the governance of PLUG.  I'd
like to enlighten that a little bit.

The Steering Committee
---
PLUG has a Steering Committee, members in no particular order:

- Hans, a.k.a. der.hans (p...@lufthans.com) is Committee Chair because
we decided that he was.

- Brian Cluff (br...@snaptek.com) still baby sits the server from time
to time and was host of the East Side Meeting for many years.

- Alexander Henry (alexanderhe...@cox.net) who, years ago, decided we
needed Install Fest on a monthly basis, found a location and makes
sure it happens.

- Joseph Sinclair (plug-discuss...@stcaz.net) a very smart developer
and good guy who fills in the gaps and provides great programming
knowledge along with organizational skill.

- Me, who has historically mastered the web site and hosted the
Developer Meeting for 6 or so years.

There was one other who moved from Arizona some time back.  There have
been others in the past who we thank.

Other Volunteers
---
There are others who help and do things, like Lisa, because they want
to.  Nothing in PLUG could happen without people like them.

Authority
---
The authority of the committee is perhaps derived, as Joshua pointed
out, by owning the domain name and having root password on the server.
 There is no other authority structure.  No bylaws or written rules.
The group depends on the Steering Committee and defers to them to run
the relatively small day-to-day issues and make meetings happen.  If
the group or a large part of the group were to want to take over or
fork, what's to stop them?  Nothing.

Money
---
PLUG has no legal entity to handle money.  There isn't any.

Events and Work
---
PLUG has events and does any work because someone paid for it, worked
it, promoted it.  Or, nothing happens.

My Comments
---
Over the years I have researched and email or IRC interviewed
participants of other LUGs.  I made a special point to seek out LUGs
that had problems resulting in dissolution or splits.  The root cause
of every LUG that experienced significant problems was power or money.
 No surprise, I suppose.  This is big reason why PLUG has not gone the
direction of formal structure and donations.  It mostly avoids such
problems.

It also blocks some good things.

Where there is passion, things happen.  Where there is passion,
disagreements happen.  Any organization that wants to make things
happen needs passion but must survive the conflicts that arise.  How
does one create such an organization without the down sides?   You
can't.  The down sides will happen so many people turn to rules and
by-laws, i.e. contracts, to minimize the down sides.  I suppose it
works for the most part or people would come up with new structures
with which to do it.  There are new ways to do these things but PLUG
may not be able to handle it.

I am beginning to accept that PLUG will not grow and thrive without a
more formal structure and maybe even money.  Scary thought to me,
knowing the history of other LUGs and volunteer groups.  At the same
time, the risk may be worth it for the gains that could be made.

The Points
---
My point is that PLUG is what the members make of it.  The Steering
Committee has no legal means of controlling the group beyond
persuasion and respect, if given.  So, if anyone want to suggest a
change, create something, push an agenda, please do.  In an open and
transparent manner.

If anyone thinks the Steering Committee is out of line, doing wrong,
whatever, please speak up.

Right now PLUG is in a low passion mood, has been for a long time.
(Except maybe politics!)  If you have a passion for something
Linux/FS/OSS related, speak up.  Rather that then we just plod along,
enjoying our Freedom only amongst ourselves.

Alan
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RE: Sonoran Penguin

[Bob Elzer]

Well it's not too eye catchy right now, it's pretty much the plain one I
think with the log changed, so unless you came up with something horrible,
everyone already likes the sonorant penguin.


> -Original Message-
> From: plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us 
> [mailto:plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us] On 
> Behalf Of Joshua Zeidner
> Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 9:00 PM
> To: Main PLUG discussion list
> Subject: Re: Sonoran Penguin
> 
>  no way I would even bother without having my terms agreed to 
> by a party who is in the position to do so.  Its not asking a 
> lot, its basically a safeguard against my time being utterly 
> wasted.  I've worked enough with these free-for-all 
> technology groups to know what to expect of human nature.  -jmz
> 
> On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 8:46 PM, Bob Elzer wrote:
> > Now I think you're procrastinating :-)
> >
> > First you said you would do it, and let everyone decide if we liked 
> > it. Now you don't want to.
> >
> > For all we know you might come up with a horrible design.
> >
> > You're going to have to show us what you got, before we say 
> it should 
> > be the new theme.
> >
> > Time to put up or   :-)
> >
> > And if it isn't obvious, this is in FUN !!!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
> >> [mailto:plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us] On 
> Behalf Of 
> >> Joshua Zeidner
> >> Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 7:22 PM
> >> To: Main PLUG discussion list
> >> Subject: Re: Sonoran Penguin
> >>
> >>  well needless to say Im not interested in doing a template.
> >> Think about it... why would I do it?  I dont have any 
> guarantee it 1) 
> >> will be used, 2) be put in a context that doesnt make it look like 
> >> garbage,
> >> 3) be attributed.  Just following here for educational 
> purposes.   ..
> >> Seems like the concern is you're going to scare away people if 
> >> management is introduced.  conversely, youre going to scare away 
> >> people if management isnt introduced (the OT problem).
> >>
> >>  non-existent steering committee: Sounds like you've got 
> an issue on 
> >> your hands.
> >>
> >>   -jmz
> >>
> >> On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 6:56 PM, R P
> >> Herrold wrote:
> >> > On Wed, 5 Aug 2009, Joshua Zeidner wrote:
> >> >
> >> >>  Nothing substantial can be organized unless there is clear 
> >> >> management.  Who will determine what is an 'improvement'
> >> and what is
> >> >> a total failure?  PLUG needs to grow up and harness the
> >> talents that
> >> >> we currently have in abundance.  Stop with these silly games 
> >> >> pretending no one is running the show.
> >> >
> >> > Someone pays the domain renewal bill (if any); someone
> >> pays, or calls
> >> > a favor, with the location the box is hosted; someone has
> >> root on that
> >> > box.   Find those answers, and you have the throat to choke.
> >> >
> >> > Unhappy with those answers?  Can't figure it out?  Fork and 
> >> > out-perform the incumbent.  Running code talks.  This is 
> FOSS after 
> >> > all.
> >> >
> >> > No slam on der Hans, or Lisa.  Running a LUG is hard;
> >> running it for
> >> > years and years is even harder
> >> >
> >> > Bring your own domain registration for a LUG, and I'll
> >> provide access
> >> > to a host for a virthost website, mailing list, etc on a
> >> box that has
> >> > in its past hosted Distrowatch, the Metro Detroit LUG, the
> >> Tampa LUG,
> >> > a couple of defunct LUGs, and the Central OH LUG
> >> (currently).  Others
> >> > as well, but I fergit.
> >> >
> >> > But kvetching about it and not acting is just pointless.
> >> >
> >> > -- Russ herrold
> >> > ---
> >> > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
> >> > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
> >> > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
> >> >
> >> ---
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> >>
> >
> > ---
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Re: Horribly OT

[Eric Cope]

did anyone ever think that most people attending college are wasting their
(parent's | governments  | own) money? Most degrees are a waste. Take my
wife's degree in sociology. Do you know what you can do with that? Nothing
or wait tables. It was a waste. We need to reevaluate your higher education
needs and we can't do that until we allow ourselves to fully comprehend the
true cost of higher education. When someone else pays for your school, going
for the sake of going, to please your parents, or some other fruitless
reason is a great way to waste money...

And taking money from some one who earned it to give it to some one who
didn't is stealing, government or otherwise.
Eric

On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 9:15 PM, Joshua Zeidner  wrote:

>  "you can always go into teaching."  :)
>
>  or grad school.  or burn a pile of hundred dollar bills.
>
>  -jmz
>
> On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 9:09 PM, Michael Butash wrote:
> > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/08/05/it_grad_sues_school/
> >
> > Couldn't help but think of this...
> >
> > My buddy went for an anthropology degree at a well respected east coast
> > college, and has worked to survive as everything from a mechanic to tech
> > support to management, none of which had any relevance to his degree.
> > He however still has 60k of debt over his head 12 years after the fact,
> > and will never utilize most of what his education was for.
> >
> > If that isn't depressing, I don't know what is, and this seems all the
> > graduating generations have to look forward to.  I'm just glad I've been
> > able to get to where I'm at without having to have bothered with needing
> > a degree.  I'm still waiting for the matrix-style learning to come along
> > for the superfluous trivia.
> >
> > -mb
> >
> >
> > On Wed, 2009-08-05 at 20:29 -0700, Trent Shipley wrote:
> >> Craig White wrote:
> >> > On Wed, 2009-08-05 at 20:12 -0700, Trent Shipley wrote:
> >> >> We used to do that before World War Two and the GI Bill.  Very few
> >> >> people went to college.  If you were willing to sacrifice any
> pretense
> >> >> of a knowledge economy and to target a low wage-no tax strategy you
> >> >> could curtail all higher education government subsidy.
> >> >>
> >> >> If I were a politician I wouldn't want to break the news to my middle
> >> >> class voters that their kids don't have a prayer of going to college
> >> >> and
> >> >> will work low wage, low skill jobs.
> >> >>
> >> >> Joshua Zeidner wrote:
> >> >>>   what I dont understand about the voucher system is, why are we
> >> >>> taxing just to give back credits?  why tax at all?  -jmz
> >> > 
> >> > well with a daughter who just graduated with an architectural degree
> >> > with no job prospects and her boyfriend having just graduated with a
> >> > business degree having no job prospects for the most part, the
> >> > educational system itself doesn't presently offer any prospects for
> much
> >> > of anything now anyway. In fact, America is not the same country it
> used
> >> > to be.
> >> >
> >> > As for JMZ's comments, I suppose that one of the intentions of the
> >> > taxation system is a redistribution of wealth in various forms which
> is
> >> > not necessarily a bad idea. An educated populace is a good thing. An
> >> > educated populace buried in educational debt is of little use. I think
> >> > the idea though is it would be better to have people going to school
> >> > than having the schools close, layoff personnel because enrollments
> are
> >> > surely declining as fewer can pay the costs of education which have
> >> > skyrocketed and the current prospects for employment on many degrees
> are
> >> > few.
> >> >
> >> > Craig
> >> >
> >> >
> >> All new graduates are having problems finding jobs.  In third world
> >> countries it can be REALLY bad.  However, I suspect that the
> >> marketability of architecture and business will come back with the
> >> recovery.  Of course, the recruiters like to hire NEW graduates.  Those
> >> who graduated into the recession may have stale degrees.
> >> ---
> >> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
> >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
> >> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
> >>
> >
> > ---
> > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
> > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
> > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
> >
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>



-- 
Eric Cope
http://cope-et-al.com
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Re: Restoring defaults in Ubuntu Gnome

[Eric Shubert]

Thanks Michael. It was in that repo, so now I'm back on yahoo, and 
happily plugging along with Heron. :)

Michael Butash wrote:
> I'm too impatient to stick with hardy, invariably I need fixes/features
> in the new ones no one feels like backporting. 
> 
> There is/was a workaround for it by using a different yahoo login host,
> scsa.msg.yahoo.com that worked for me before getting the pidgin fix.
> 
> Have you tried the ppa for pidgin-developers?
> 
> deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/pidgin-developers/ppa/ubuntu hardy main
> 
> I don't remember exactly if they had a hardy build, but I would hope so
> since it is *lts*...
> 
> -mb
> 
> 

-- 
-Eric 'shubes'

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Re: Horribly OT

[Joshua Zeidner]

 "you can always go into teaching."  :)

 or grad school.  or burn a pile of hundred dollar bills.

  -jmz

On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 9:09 PM, Michael Butash wrote:
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/08/05/it_grad_sues_school/
>
> Couldn't help but think of this...
>
> My buddy went for an anthropology degree at a well respected east coast
> college, and has worked to survive as everything from a mechanic to tech
> support to management, none of which had any relevance to his degree.
> He however still has 60k of debt over his head 12 years after the fact,
> and will never utilize most of what his education was for.
>
> If that isn't depressing, I don't know what is, and this seems all the
> graduating generations have to look forward to.  I'm just glad I've been
> able to get to where I'm at without having to have bothered with needing
> a degree.  I'm still waiting for the matrix-style learning to come along
> for the superfluous trivia.
>
> -mb
>
>
> On Wed, 2009-08-05 at 20:29 -0700, Trent Shipley wrote:
>> Craig White wrote:
>> > On Wed, 2009-08-05 at 20:12 -0700, Trent Shipley wrote:
>> >> We used to do that before World War Two and the GI Bill.  Very few
>> >> people went to college.  If you were willing to sacrifice any pretense
>> >> of a knowledge economy and to target a low wage-no tax strategy you
>> >> could curtail all higher education government subsidy.
>> >>
>> >> If I were a politician I wouldn't want to break the news to my middle
>> >> class voters that their kids don't have a prayer of going to college
>> >> and
>> >> will work low wage, low skill jobs.
>> >>
>> >> Joshua Zeidner wrote:
>> >>>   what I dont understand about the voucher system is, why are we
>> >>> taxing just to give back credits?  why tax at all?  -jmz
>> > 
>> > well with a daughter who just graduated with an architectural degree
>> > with no job prospects and her boyfriend having just graduated with a
>> > business degree having no job prospects for the most part, the
>> > educational system itself doesn't presently offer any prospects for much
>> > of anything now anyway. In fact, America is not the same country it used
>> > to be.
>> >
>> > As for JMZ's comments, I suppose that one of the intentions of the
>> > taxation system is a redistribution of wealth in various forms which is
>> > not necessarily a bad idea. An educated populace is a good thing. An
>> > educated populace buried in educational debt is of little use. I think
>> > the idea though is it would be better to have people going to school
>> > than having the schools close, layoff personnel because enrollments are
>> > surely declining as fewer can pay the costs of education which have
>> > skyrocketed and the current prospects for employment on many degrees are
>> > few.
>> >
>> > Craig
>> >
>> >
>> All new graduates are having problems finding jobs.  In third world
>> countries it can be REALLY bad.  However, I suspect that the
>> marketability of architecture and business will come back with the
>> recovery.  Of course, the recruiters like to hire NEW graduates.  Those
>> who graduated into the recession may have stale degrees.
>> ---
>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>>
>
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Re: Horribly OT

[Michael Butash]

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/08/05/it_grad_sues_school/

Couldn't help but think of this...

My buddy went for an anthropology degree at a well respected east coast
college, and has worked to survive as everything from a mechanic to tech
support to management, none of which had any relevance to his degree.
He however still has 60k of debt over his head 12 years after the fact,
and will never utilize most of what his education was for.

If that isn't depressing, I don't know what is, and this seems all the
graduating generations have to look forward to.  I'm just glad I've been
able to get to where I'm at without having to have bothered with needing
a degree.  I'm still waiting for the matrix-style learning to come along
for the superfluous trivia.

-mb


On Wed, 2009-08-05 at 20:29 -0700, Trent Shipley wrote:
> Craig White wrote:
> > On Wed, 2009-08-05 at 20:12 -0700, Trent Shipley wrote:
> >> We used to do that before World War Two and the GI Bill.  Very few
> >> people went to college.  If you were willing to sacrifice any pretense
> >> of a knowledge economy and to target a low wage-no tax strategy you
> >> could curtail all higher education government subsidy.
> >>
> >> If I were a politician I wouldn't want to break the news to my middle
> >> class voters that their kids don't have a prayer of going to college
> >> and
> >> will work low wage, low skill jobs.
> >>
> >> Joshua Zeidner wrote:
> >>>   what I dont understand about the voucher system is, why are we
> >>> taxing just to give back credits?  why tax at all?  -jmz
> > 
> > well with a daughter who just graduated with an architectural degree
> > with no job prospects and her boyfriend having just graduated with a
> > business degree having no job prospects for the most part, the
> > educational system itself doesn't presently offer any prospects for much
> > of anything now anyway. In fact, America is not the same country it used
> > to be.
> > 
> > As for JMZ's comments, I suppose that one of the intentions of the
> > taxation system is a redistribution of wealth in various forms which is
> > not necessarily a bad idea. An educated populace is a good thing. An
> > educated populace buried in educational debt is of little use. I think
> > the idea though is it would be better to have people going to school
> > than having the schools close, layoff personnel because enrollments are
> > surely declining as fewer can pay the costs of education which have
> > skyrocketed and the current prospects for employment on many degrees are
> > few.
> > 
> > Craig
> > 
> > 
> All new graduates are having problems finding jobs.  In third world
> countries it can be REALLY bad.  However, I suspect that the
> marketability of architecture and business will come back with the
> recovery.  Of course, the recruiters like to hire NEW graduates.  Those
> who graduated into the recession may have stale degrees.
> ---
> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
> 

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Re: Sonoran Penguin

[Joshua Zeidner]

 no way I would even bother without having my terms agreed to by a
party who is in the position to do so.  Its not asking a lot, its
basically a safeguard against my time being utterly wasted.  I've
worked enough with these free-for-all technology groups to know what
to expect of human nature.  -jmz

On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 8:46 PM, Bob Elzer wrote:
> Now I think you're procrastinating :-)
>
> First you said you would do it, and let everyone decide if we liked it. Now
> you don't want to.
>
> For all we know you might come up with a horrible design.
>
> You're going to have to show us what you got, before we say it should be the
> new theme.
>
> Time to put up or   :-)
>
> And if it isn't obvious, this is in FUN !!!
>
>
>
>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
>> [mailto:plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us] On
>> Behalf Of Joshua Zeidner
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 7:22 PM
>> To: Main PLUG discussion list
>> Subject: Re: Sonoran Penguin
>>
>>  well needless to say Im not interested in doing a template.
>> Think about it... why would I do it?  I dont have any
>> guarantee it 1) will be used, 2) be put in a context that
>> doesnt make it look like garbage,
>> 3) be attributed.  Just following here for educational purposes.   ..
>> Seems like the concern is you're going to scare away people
>> if management is introduced.  conversely, youre going to
>> scare away people if management isnt introduced (the OT problem).
>>
>>  non-existent steering committee: Sounds like you've got an
>> issue on your hands.
>>
>>   -jmz
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 6:56 PM, R P
>> Herrold wrote:
>> > On Wed, 5 Aug 2009, Joshua Zeidner wrote:
>> >
>> >>  Nothing substantial can be organized unless there is clear
>> >> management.  Who will determine what is an 'improvement'
>> and what is
>> >> a total failure?  PLUG needs to grow up and harness the
>> talents that
>> >> we currently have in abundance.  Stop with these silly games
>> >> pretending no one is running the show.
>> >
>> > Someone pays the domain renewal bill (if any); someone
>> pays, or calls
>> > a favor, with the location the box is hosted; someone has
>> root on that
>> > box.   Find those answers, and you have the throat to choke.
>> >
>> > Unhappy with those answers?  Can't figure it out?  Fork and
>> > out-perform the incumbent.  Running code talks.  This is FOSS after
>> > all.
>> >
>> > No slam on der Hans, or Lisa.  Running a LUG is hard;
>> running it for
>> > years and years is even harder
>> >
>> > Bring your own domain registration for a LUG, and I'll
>> provide access
>> > to a host for a virthost website, mailing list, etc on a
>> box that has
>> > in its past hosted Distrowatch, the Metro Detroit LUG, the
>> Tampa LUG,
>> > a couple of defunct LUGs, and the Central OH LUG
>> (currently).  Others
>> > as well, but I fergit.
>> >
>> > But kvetching about it and not acting is just pointless.
>> >
>> > -- Russ herrold
>> > ---
>> > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
>> > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>> > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>> >
>> ---
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>
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RE: Sonoran Penguin

[Bob Elzer]

Now I think you're procrastinating :-)

First you said you would do it, and let everyone decide if we liked it. Now
you don't want to.

For all we know you might come up with a horrible design.

You're going to have to show us what you got, before we say it should be the
new theme.

Time to put up or   :-)

And if it isn't obvious, this is in FUN !!!


 

> -Original Message-
> From: plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us 
> [mailto:plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us] On 
> Behalf Of Joshua Zeidner
> Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 7:22 PM
> To: Main PLUG discussion list
> Subject: Re: Sonoran Penguin
> 
>  well needless to say Im not interested in doing a template.  
> Think about it... why would I do it?  I dont have any 
> guarantee it 1) will be used, 2) be put in a context that 
> doesnt make it look like garbage,
> 3) be attributed.  Just following here for educational purposes.   ..
> Seems like the concern is you're going to scare away people 
> if management is introduced.  conversely, youre going to 
> scare away people if management isnt introduced (the OT problem).
> 
>  non-existent steering committee: Sounds like you've got an 
> issue on your hands.
> 
>   -jmz
> 
> On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 6:56 PM, R P 
> Herrold wrote:
> > On Wed, 5 Aug 2009, Joshua Zeidner wrote:
> >
> >>  Nothing substantial can be organized unless there is clear 
> >> management.  Who will determine what is an 'improvement' 
> and what is 
> >> a total failure?  PLUG needs to grow up and harness the 
> talents that 
> >> we currently have in abundance.  Stop with these silly games 
> >> pretending no one is running the show.
> >
> > Someone pays the domain renewal bill (if any); someone 
> pays, or calls 
> > a favor, with the location the box is hosted; someone has 
> root on that 
> > box.   Find those answers, and you have the throat to choke.
> >
> > Unhappy with those answers?  Can't figure it out?  Fork and 
> > out-perform the incumbent.  Running code talks.  This is FOSS after 
> > all.
> >
> > No slam on der Hans, or Lisa.  Running a LUG is hard; 
> running it for 
> > years and years is even harder
> >
> > Bring your own domain registration for a LUG, and I'll 
> provide access 
> > to a host for a virthost website, mailing list, etc on a 
> box that has 
> > in its past hosted Distrowatch, the Metro Detroit LUG, the 
> Tampa LUG, 
> > a couple of defunct LUGs, and the Central OH LUG 
> (currently).  Others 
> > as well, but I fergit.
> >
> > But kvetching about it and not acting is just pointless.
> >
> > -- Russ herrold
> > ---
> > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
> > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
> > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
> >
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Re: Memory leaks in Ubuntu?

[Michael Butash]

True enough it is tied to caching, but the fact it's marked as inactive
when I can definitely attribute application termination from lack of
memory is what I note as a problem.  The system does not give this back
in the way of virtual or physical memory.  The system does however
behave well enough as long as physical memory is present to give, but
watching a graph of the physical memory is *like* watching a memory
leak, whether it properly is or isn't, and end of the road is definitely
noticeable with performance on said system.

Here's what a normal vmstat looks like currently, notice the caching:

procs ---memory-- ---swap-- -io -system--
cpu
 r  b   swpd   free   buff  cache   si   sobibo   in   cs us sy
id wa
 0  0   4096 224988  69472 567622400 231   12   41  7  6
86  1

Here's what vmstat -a looks like currently with "inact" having most:

m...@thrawn:~$ vmstat -a
procs ---memory-- ---swap-- -io -system--
cpu
 r  b   swpd   free  inact active   si   sobibo   in   cs us sy
id wa
 2  0   4096 223196 5737708 190072400 231   12   41  7
6 86  1

Physical memory has nothing with free -m:

 total   used   free sharedbuffers
cached
Mem:  7888   7673214  0 68
5543
-/+ buffers/cache:   2062   5826
Swap: 1023  4   1019

When it loses all physical memory, the system slows waay down, java apps
get weird (jbidwatcher is the java cancer for me), anything rendering
video won't scale, my gl screensaver bogs waaay down.  Totem, vlc, or
other will simply just crash if run long enough in this state, but I
haven't caught the segfault or anything.

I've used just about any build within the past 4 years or so of the NV
proprietary drivers, and nothing resolves it, though many have said
there are issues with 64bit.  I can't attribute anything to actually
using the memory, and typically where I've seen leaks like this I can
always find something even in excess processes running away or ipc
threading even.  

I've lived with it so long it's just just *there*, but I'd kill to fix
whatever the heck it is.  No amount of research has ever resulted in a
fix for me.

Thanks for the input!

-mb


On Wed, 2009-08-05 at 20:19 -0700, Joseph Sinclair wrote:
> I have had major problems with the NVidia proprietary drivers, particularly 
> with Ubuntu 9.04.  It seems like NVidia introduced a ton of REALLY bad bugs 
> when they had to almost rewrite the drivers for the changes in the new XOrg 
> server.
> I haven't seen the memory behavior you describe, but have you checked to be 
> certain this isn't buffers and/or cache memory?  I know all of my machines 
> running any desktop distro tend to slowly accumulate cache until me
> mory is "full", but none of them have performance issues, since the kernel 
> just reclaims cache LRU when it needs the RAM back.  I also see fairly large 
> amounts of "inactive" memory, but I never seem to have problems with the 
> system reclaiming that as needed.
> 
> 
> Michael Butash wrote:
> > Has anyone else seen or experienced persistent memory leaks with ubuntu
> > 32bit or 64?  I've literally had issues with it that may or may not be
> > particularly ubuntu issues back to 7.04 that I first noticed.  The only
> > thing really in common system-wise is the hardware, and I somewhat
> > suspect it's Nvidia driver related, but nothing really indicates any
> > particular app.  My primary desktop I use heavily just about anything,
> > but I have another system that's sole purpose is to play movies and
> > music on my TV I do almost nothing with that experiences the same
> > issues, NVidia card as well.  With compiz or without this happens.  Only
> > thing I haven't tried is running the NV drivers, but I rely on the
> > acceleration far too much on both systems.
> > 
> > What I have noticed is there are no direct applications hogging memory
> > via top, rather it seems virtual memory ends up simply taking over all
> > physical memory and keeping it as "inactive" via "vmstat -a".  Signs of
> > this include firefox flipping out, rendering/scaling video larger than
> > default, and just anything else that requires excessive memory use
> > having issues.  I graph my physical memory usage via snmp, and I can
> > pretty accurately gauge how long I have until I need to do a hard reboot
> > to reclaim the "inactive" memory.  It mostly works even memory starved
> > in this condition, just limits my usage, and even restarting x doesn't
> > help.  Interestingly enough, neither system ever swaps at all...
> > 
> > Has anyone successfully ever dealt with an issue like this killing
> > virtual memory?  I really can't imagine I'm the only one...  I've hunted
> > far and wide of the great interweb for a way to release the "inactive"
> > memory, as I'd even just go so far as to purge it once a day via cron if
> > I had to, but I can

RE: Sonoran Penguin

[Bob Elzer]

Maybe you should say something political on their mail list :-)
 
It might start things up.
 
Just kidding, Nobody move, do not turn this joke into a another runaway
thread.
 
Back away from the keyboard.
 


  _  

From: plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
[mailto:plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us] On Behalf Of mike
havens
Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 5:36 PM
To: Main PLUG discussion list
Subject: Re: Sonoran Penguin


I joined the florida LUG and I never get messages from them except for
announcements. So a LOT happens with PLUG.


On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 8:27 PM, Joshua Zeidner  wrote:


 Which is why practically nothing ever happens :(

 -jmz


On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 5:26 PM, Lisa Kachold wrote:
> Committee?
>
> No, we just make improvements.  No one gets to control things.
>
> On 8/5/09, Joshua Zeidner  wrote:
>>  Howdy,
>>
>>   ok Im willing to make a professional Drupal template for PLUG.  The
>> whole process should be a few days work.  I will make design proofs
>> and the steering committee can decide whatever way they chose (cast
>> ballots, draw straws, dartboard, etc.).  The designs will be based on
>> the concept Lisa posted.  PLUG committee must agree to use the
>> template for at least one year, which includes a small attribution
>> link in the footer of every page.
>>
>>   perhaps this may lead to better efforts to get people to use the
>> site.  I did discuss with Hans the idea of using web forums to
>> ameliorate all these listserv problems.  In this scenario it is far
>> easier to organize technical questions and have them accessible via
>> search engine.  Also it is easier to manage relations with people whom
>> you are not interested in reading ,etc.  The problem Hans raised is
>> that a lot of users only want to use email.  Also putting it on web
>> allows PLUG to raise money with advertising to fund events, etc.
>>
>>  -jmz
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 9:29 AM, Stephen wrote:
>>> im game for it...
>>>
>>> and honestly im curious about the process
>>>
>>> On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 8:42 PM, Joshua Zeidner
wrote:
  If everyone likes this, I can offer to write a Drupal template for
 the PLUG site using this concept.

  -jmz


 On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 8:03 PM, R P Herrold
wrote:
> On Tue, 4 Aug 2009, Joshua Zeidner wrote:
>
>>  I made it with GIMP.  How come no one liked it when I posted it
>>  I need to fire my PR manager.
>
> I read email with [al]pine in a monochrome terminal, fast and
> low, and tossing read pieces out.  If it was in an early
> email, I missed it.  I cannot say that I saw repetition of a
> URL where I might view it, although the compliments seem to
> indicate its worth.
>
> -- Russ herrold
> ---
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you from
>>> rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button.
>>>
>>> Stephen
>>> ---
>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
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>>>
>> ---
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>>
>
>
> --
> http://linuxgazette.net/165/kachold.html
> (623)239-3392
> (503)754-4452 www.obnosis.com
> ---
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-- 
:-)~MIKE~(-:


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Re: Horribly OT

[Trent Shipley]

Craig White wrote:
> On Wed, 2009-08-05 at 20:12 -0700, Trent Shipley wrote:
>> We used to do that before World War Two and the GI Bill.  Very few
>> people went to college.  If you were willing to sacrifice any pretense
>> of a knowledge economy and to target a low wage-no tax strategy you
>> could curtail all higher education government subsidy.
>>
>> If I were a politician I wouldn't want to break the news to my middle
>> class voters that their kids don't have a prayer of going to college
>> and
>> will work low wage, low skill jobs.
>>
>> Joshua Zeidner wrote:
>>>   what I dont understand about the voucher system is, why are we
>>> taxing just to give back credits?  why tax at all?  -jmz
> 
> well with a daughter who just graduated with an architectural degree
> with no job prospects and her boyfriend having just graduated with a
> business degree having no job prospects for the most part, the
> educational system itself doesn't presently offer any prospects for much
> of anything now anyway. In fact, America is not the same country it used
> to be.
> 
> As for JMZ's comments, I suppose that one of the intentions of the
> taxation system is a redistribution of wealth in various forms which is
> not necessarily a bad idea. An educated populace is a good thing. An
> educated populace buried in educational debt is of little use. I think
> the idea though is it would be better to have people going to school
> than having the schools close, layoff personnel because enrollments are
> surely declining as fewer can pay the costs of education which have
> skyrocketed and the current prospects for employment on many degrees are
> few.
> 
> Craig
> 
> 
All new graduates are having problems finding jobs.  In third world
countries it can be REALLY bad.  However, I suspect that the
marketability of architecture and business will come back with the
recovery.  Of course, the recruiters like to hire NEW graduates.  Those
who graduated into the recession may have stale degrees.
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Re: Horribly OT

[Craig White]

On Wed, 2009-08-05 at 20:12 -0700, Trent Shipley wrote:
> 
> We used to do that before World War Two and the GI Bill.  Very few
> people went to college.  If you were willing to sacrifice any pretense
> of a knowledge economy and to target a low wage-no tax strategy you
> could curtail all higher education government subsidy.
> 
> If I were a politician I wouldn't want to break the news to my middle
> class voters that their kids don't have a prayer of going to college
> and
> will work low wage, low skill jobs.
> 
> Joshua Zeidner wrote:
> >   what I dont understand about the voucher system is, why are we
> > taxing just to give back credits?  why tax at all?  -jmz

well with a daughter who just graduated with an architectural degree
with no job prospects and her boyfriend having just graduated with a
business degree having no job prospects for the most part, the
educational system itself doesn't presently offer any prospects for much
of anything now anyway. In fact, America is not the same country it used
to be.

As for JMZ's comments, I suppose that one of the intentions of the
taxation system is a redistribution of wealth in various forms which is
not necessarily a bad idea. An educated populace is a good thing. An
educated populace buried in educational debt is of little use. I think
the idea though is it would be better to have people going to school
than having the schools close, layoff personnel because enrollments are
surely declining as fewer can pay the costs of education which have
skyrocketed and the current prospects for employment on many degrees are
few.

Craig


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Re: Memory leaks in Ubuntu?

[Joseph Sinclair]

I have had major problems with the NVidia proprietary drivers, particularly 
with Ubuntu 9.04.  It seems like NVidia introduced a ton of REALLY bad bugs 
when they had to almost rewrite the drivers for the changes in the new XOrg 
server.
I haven't seen the memory behavior you describe, but have you checked to be 
certain this isn't buffers and/or cache memory?  I know all of my machines 
running any desktop distro tend to slowly accumulate cache until memory is 
"full", but none of them have performance issues, since the kernel just 
reclaims cache LRU when it needs the RAM back.  I also see fairly large amounts 
of "inactive" memory, but I never seem to have problems with the system 
reclaiming that as needed.


Michael Butash wrote:
> Has anyone else seen or experienced persistent memory leaks with ubuntu
> 32bit or 64?  I've literally had issues with it that may or may not be
> particularly ubuntu issues back to 7.04 that I first noticed.  The only
> thing really in common system-wise is the hardware, and I somewhat
> suspect it's Nvidia driver related, but nothing really indicates any
> particular app.  My primary desktop I use heavily just about anything,
> but I have another system that's sole purpose is to play movies and
> music on my TV I do almost nothing with that experiences the same
> issues, NVidia card as well.  With compiz or without this happens.  Only
> thing I haven't tried is running the NV drivers, but I rely on the
> acceleration far too much on both systems.
> 
> What I have noticed is there are no direct applications hogging memory
> via top, rather it seems virtual memory ends up simply taking over all
> physical memory and keeping it as "inactive" via "vmstat -a".  Signs of
> this include firefox flipping out, rendering/scaling video larger than
> default, and just anything else that requires excessive memory use
> having issues.  I graph my physical memory usage via snmp, and I can
> pretty accurately gauge how long I have until I need to do a hard reboot
> to reclaim the "inactive" memory.  It mostly works even memory starved
> in this condition, just limits my usage, and even restarting x doesn't
> help.  Interestingly enough, neither system ever swaps at all...
> 
> Has anyone successfully ever dealt with an issue like this killing
> virtual memory?  I really can't imagine I'm the only one...  I've hunted
> far and wide of the great interweb for a way to release the "inactive"
> memory, as I'd even just go so far as to purge it once a day via cron if
> I had to, but I can find nothing of forcefully clearing inactive/dirty
> virtual memory space.  I've seen others complain of the same behavior,
> but have only seen the same rhetoric that "trust linux virtual memory
> behavior, that's what it's supposed to do".  Act like a stupid windoze
> me install and reboot daily?  I think not...
> 
> -mb
> 
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Re: Horribly OT

[Trent Shipley]

We used to do that before World War Two and the GI Bill.  Very few
people went to college.  If you were willing to sacrifice any pretense
of a knowledge economy and to target a low wage-no tax strategy you
could curtail all higher education government subsidy.

If I were a politician I wouldn't want to break the news to my middle
class voters that their kids don't have a prayer of going to college and
will work low wage, low skill jobs.

Joshua Zeidner wrote:
>   what I dont understand about the voucher system is, why are we
> taxing just to give back credits?  why tax at all?  -jmz
> 
> On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 8:00 PM, Trent Shipley wrote:
>> Subsidies to community colleges and state universities should be
>> replaced with a one-size-fits-all higher education vouchers.  Using
>> vouchers will contribute to a free market in higher education
>> services, leveling the playing field between the University of
>> Phoenix, Grand Canyon University, and the state universities.  To the
>> degree that state funds are spent on higher education vouchers, direct
>> subsidies to public institutions of higher education can be reduced.
>> Naturally, it would not make sense to endanger Arizona's sovereign
>> rights over state trust land by cutting direct support for land grant
>> universities excessively.  Likewise, it would be inexpedient to hurt
>> receipt of Federal revenue through excessive cuts, though even this
>> might be possible after a substantial electoral success.
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> 
> 

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Re: Horribly OT

[Joshua Zeidner]

  what I dont understand about the voucher system is, why are we
taxing just to give back credits?  why tax at all?  -jmz

On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 8:00 PM, Trent Shipley wrote:
> Subsidies to community colleges and state universities should be
> replaced with a one-size-fits-all higher education vouchers.  Using
> vouchers will contribute to a free market in higher education
> services, leveling the playing field between the University of
> Phoenix, Grand Canyon University, and the state universities.  To the
> degree that state funds are spent on higher education vouchers, direct
> subsidies to public institutions of higher education can be reduced.
> Naturally, it would not make sense to endanger Arizona's sovereign
> rights over state trust land by cutting direct support for land grant
> universities excessively.  Likewise, it would be inexpedient to hurt
> receipt of Federal revenue through excessive cuts, though even this
> might be possible after a substantial electoral success.
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Horribly OT

[Trent Shipley]

Subsidies to community colleges and state universities should be  
replaced with a one-size-fits-all higher education vouchers.  Using  
vouchers will contribute to a free market in higher education  
services, leveling the playing field between the University of  
Phoenix, Grand Canyon University, and the state universities.  To the  
degree that state funds are spent on higher education vouchers, direct  
subsidies to public institutions of higher education can be reduced.   
Naturally, it would not make sense to endanger Arizona's sovereign  
rights over state trust land by cutting direct support for land grant  
universities excessively.  Likewise, it would be inexpedient to hurt  
receipt of Federal revenue through excessive cuts, though even this  
might be possible after a substantial electoral success.
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Re: Sonoran Penguin

[Joshua Zeidner]

 I agree completely, but it seems every time we have some political
discussion on here, PLUGs nervous system grows more extensive... -jmz


On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 7:54 PM, Michael Butash wrote:
> I wouldn't call it a problem per se, perhaps simply a lack of
> motivation, but thus far I haven't seen too much of an issue.  Politics
> annoy me, but I've learned to simply ignore the cruft - others maybe not
> so much.  I've not been watching or interacting with the list long, but
> I haven't seen much of what I'd call abuse to the point of needing a
> true steering committee ala moderation and/or hounding.  That's
> typically about the time I lose interest.
>
> What I have seen for the most part is (what I'd consider) vibrant
> participation in mostly relevant discussions, without moderation or
> attitude attitude that normally develops on lists like these.  I'd say
> most or all of us are professional enough to respect that, keep egos in
> check, and that's largely what got me watching and participating in
> discussion in the first place.  Its refreshing there isn't constant
> quoting of rules, moderation, or in general preaching.
>
> I don't do forums for various reasons, and to me this feels like the
> last bastion of the "old world" that still works to maintain my
> interest, and works mostly well.  Thus far, I wouldn't say I'd recommend
> changing anything, but I'm fairly simple to please.
>
> -mb
>
>
> On Wed, 2009-08-05 at 19:21 -0700, Joshua Zeidner wrote:
>> well needless to say Im not interested in doing a template.  Think
>> about it... why would I do it?  I dont have any guarantee it 1) will
>> be used, 2) be put in a context that doesnt make it look like garbage,
>> 3) be attributed.  Just following here for educational purposes.   ..
>> Seems like the concern is you're going to scare away people if
>> management is introduced.  conversely, youre going to scare away
>> people if management isnt introduced (the OT problem).
>>
>>  non-existent steering committee: Sounds like you've got an issue on your 
>> hands.
>>
>>   -jmz
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 6:56 PM, R P Herrold wrote:
>> > On Wed, 5 Aug 2009, Joshua Zeidner wrote:
>> >
>> >>  Nothing substantial can be organized unless there is clear
>> >> management.  Who will determine what is an 'improvement' and what is a
>> >> total failure?  PLUG needs to grow up and harness the talents that we
>> >> currently have in abundance.  Stop with these silly games pretending
>> >> no one is running the show.
>> >
>> > Someone pays the domain renewal bill (if any); someone pays,
>> > or calls a favor, with the location the box is hosted; someone
>> > has root on that box.   Find those answers, and you have the
>> > throat to choke.
>> >
>> > Unhappy with those answers?  Can't figure it out?  Fork and
>> > out-perform the incumbent.  Running code talks.  This is FOSS
>> > after all.
>> >
>> > No slam on der Hans, or Lisa.  Running a LUG is hard;
>> > running it for years and years is even harder
>> >
>> > Bring your own domain registration for a LUG, and I'll provide
>> > access to a host for a virthost website, mailing list, etc on
>> > a box that has in its past hosted Distrowatch, the Metro
>> > Detroit LUG, the Tampa LUG, a couple of defunct LUGs, and the
>> > Central OH LUG (currently).  Others as well, but I fergit.
>> >
>> > But kvetching about it and not acting is just pointless.
>> >
>> > -- Russ herrold
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Re: Sonoran Penguin

[Michael Butash]

I wouldn't call it a problem per se, perhaps simply a lack of
motivation, but thus far I haven't seen too much of an issue.  Politics
annoy me, but I've learned to simply ignore the cruft - others maybe not
so much.  I've not been watching or interacting with the list long, but
I haven't seen much of what I'd call abuse to the point of needing a
true steering committee ala moderation and/or hounding.  That's
typically about the time I lose interest.

What I have seen for the most part is (what I'd consider) vibrant
participation in mostly relevant discussions, without moderation or
attitude attitude that normally develops on lists like these.  I'd say
most or all of us are professional enough to respect that, keep egos in
check, and that's largely what got me watching and participating in
discussion in the first place.  Its refreshing there isn't constant
quoting of rules, moderation, or in general preaching.

I don't do forums for various reasons, and to me this feels like the
last bastion of the "old world" that still works to maintain my
interest, and works mostly well.  Thus far, I wouldn't say I'd recommend
changing anything, but I'm fairly simple to please.

-mb


On Wed, 2009-08-05 at 19:21 -0700, Joshua Zeidner wrote:
> well needless to say Im not interested in doing a template.  Think
> about it... why would I do it?  I dont have any guarantee it 1) will
> be used, 2) be put in a context that doesnt make it look like garbage,
> 3) be attributed.  Just following here for educational purposes.   ..
> Seems like the concern is you're going to scare away people if
> management is introduced.  conversely, youre going to scare away
> people if management isnt introduced (the OT problem).
> 
>  non-existent steering committee: Sounds like you've got an issue on your 
> hands.
> 
>   -jmz
> 
> On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 6:56 PM, R P Herrold wrote:
> > On Wed, 5 Aug 2009, Joshua Zeidner wrote:
> >
> >>  Nothing substantial can be organized unless there is clear
> >> management.  Who will determine what is an 'improvement' and what is a
> >> total failure?  PLUG needs to grow up and harness the talents that we
> >> currently have in abundance.  Stop with these silly games pretending
> >> no one is running the show.
> >
> > Someone pays the domain renewal bill (if any); someone pays,
> > or calls a favor, with the location the box is hosted; someone
> > has root on that box.   Find those answers, and you have the
> > throat to choke.
> >
> > Unhappy with those answers?  Can't figure it out?  Fork and
> > out-perform the incumbent.  Running code talks.  This is FOSS
> > after all.
> >
> > No slam on der Hans, or Lisa.  Running a LUG is hard;
> > running it for years and years is even harder
> >
> > Bring your own domain registration for a LUG, and I'll provide
> > access to a host for a virthost website, mailing list, etc on
> > a box that has in its past hosted Distrowatch, the Metro
> > Detroit LUG, the Tampa LUG, a couple of defunct LUGs, and the
> > Central OH LUG (currently).  Others as well, but I fergit.
> >
> > But kvetching about it and not acting is just pointless.
> >
> > -- Russ herrold
> > ---
> > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
> > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
> > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
> >
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Re: Sonoran Penguin

[Joshua Zeidner]

 well needless to say Im not interested in doing a template.  Think
about it... why would I do it?  I dont have any guarantee it 1) will
be used, 2) be put in a context that doesnt make it look like garbage,
3) be attributed.  Just following here for educational purposes.   ..
Seems like the concern is you're going to scare away people if
management is introduced.  conversely, youre going to scare away
people if management isnt introduced (the OT problem).

 non-existent steering committee: Sounds like you've got an issue on your hands.

  -jmz

On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 6:56 PM, R P Herrold wrote:
> On Wed, 5 Aug 2009, Joshua Zeidner wrote:
>
>>  Nothing substantial can be organized unless there is clear
>> management.  Who will determine what is an 'improvement' and what is a
>> total failure?  PLUG needs to grow up and harness the talents that we
>> currently have in abundance.  Stop with these silly games pretending
>> no one is running the show.
>
> Someone pays the domain renewal bill (if any); someone pays,
> or calls a favor, with the location the box is hosted; someone
> has root on that box.   Find those answers, and you have the
> throat to choke.
>
> Unhappy with those answers?  Can't figure it out?  Fork and
> out-perform the incumbent.  Running code talks.  This is FOSS
> after all.
>
> No slam on der Hans, or Lisa.  Running a LUG is hard;
> running it for years and years is even harder
>
> Bring your own domain registration for a LUG, and I'll provide
> access to a host for a virthost website, mailing list, etc on
> a box that has in its past hosted Distrowatch, the Metro
> Detroit LUG, the Tampa LUG, a couple of defunct LUGs, and the
> Central OH LUG (currently).  Others as well, but I fergit.
>
> But kvetching about it and not acting is just pointless.
>
> -- Russ herrold
> ---
> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
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Re: Sonoran Penguin

[R P Herrold]

On Wed, 5 Aug 2009, Joshua Zeidner wrote:

>  Nothing substantial can be organized unless there is clear
> management.  Who will determine what is an 'improvement' and what is a
> total failure?  PLUG needs to grow up and harness the talents that we
> currently have in abundance.  Stop with these silly games pretending
> no one is running the show.

Someone pays the domain renewal bill (if any); someone pays, 
or calls a favor, with the location the box is hosted; someone 
has root on that box.   Find those answers, and you have the 
throat to choke.

Unhappy with those answers?  Can't figure it out?  Fork and 
out-perform the incumbent.  Running code talks.  This is FOSS 
after all.

No slam on der Hans, or Lisa.  Running a LUG is hard; 
running it for years and years is even harder

Bring your own domain registration for a LUG, and I'll provide 
access to a host for a virthost website, mailing list, etc on 
a box that has in its past hosted Distrowatch, the Metro 
Detroit LUG, the Tampa LUG, a couple of defunct LUGs, and the 
Central OH LUG (currently).  Others as well, but I fergit.

But kvetching about it and not acting is just pointless.

-- Russ herrold
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Re: Sonoran Penguin

[R P Herrold]

On Wed, 5 Aug 2009, Joshua Zeidner wrote:

> Which is why practically nothing ever happens :(

> On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 5:26 PM, Lisa Kachold wrote:
>> Committee?
>>
>> No, we just make improvements.  No one gets to control things.

ignoring the top posting's misposition [ ;) ], that is because 
one cannot improve on perfection?

-- Russ herrold
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Re: Sonoran Penguin

[Lisa Kachold]

Yes, that's true with PLUG.  Hans does a great deal, but needs
non-profit status, regular people to just do things like update the
website, order tee shirts and sell them (we all want tees) and run
contests (shirt design) and do promotion (although a plugin for Drupal
exists that allows for promotion to other sister lists at the touch of
a button).

There is no treasury - so we are limited in that.  And anything that
smears that line between private (domain names - website promotion for
the PLUG, etc) turns people off in a big way.

Altruism only only goes so far - an efficient non-profit runs as such.

But other groups with all that in place still are mired in argument,
gossip, petty backbiting (competition [even when we all have excellent
skills) can be devasting to a group]) lack of volunteers and politics,
so we are doing fairly well.

On 8/5/09, Joshua Zeidner  wrote:
>   Nothing substantial can be organized unless there is clear
> management.  Who will determine what is an 'improvement' and what is a
> total failure?  PLUG needs to grow up and harness the talents that we
> currently have in abundance.  Stop with these silly games pretending
> no one is running the show.  Every time I ask anything of substance, I
> am referred to the 'steering committee'.  Then Lisa claims there is no
> committee when it is explicitly referred to.  No one ever states who
> is on the steering committee, expect for at least a few references
> that it includes Hans.  We do however have loads of complaints about
> how crappy this list is getting and how great it was back in some
> mythical past when everyone politely answered everyone else's
> technical questions expeditiously and never strayed into outer
> territories of political blasphemy.
>
>   Its kind of funny and kind of tiring.
>
>   -jmz
>
> On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 5:36 PM, mike havens wrote:
>> I joined the florida LUG and I never get messages from them except for
>> announcements. So a LOT happens with PLUG.
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 8:27 PM, Joshua Zeidner 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>>  Which is why practically nothing ever happens :(
>>>
>>>  -jmz
>>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 5:26 PM, Lisa Kachold
>>> wrote:
>>> > Committee?
>>> >
>>> > No, we just make improvements.  No one gets to control things.
>>> >
>>> > On 8/5/09, Joshua Zeidner  wrote:
>>> >>  Howdy,
>>> >>
>>> >>   ok Im willing to make a professional Drupal template for PLUG.  The
>>> >> whole process should be a few days work.  I will make design proofs
>>> >> and the steering committee can decide whatever way they chose (cast
>>> >> ballots, draw straws, dartboard, etc.).  The designs will be based on
>>> >> the concept Lisa posted.  PLUG committee must agree to use the
>>> >> template for at least one year, which includes a small attribution
>>> >> link in the footer of every page.
>>> >>
>>> >>   perhaps this may lead to better efforts to get people to use the
>>> >> site.  I did discuss with Hans the idea of using web forums to
>>> >> ameliorate all these listserv problems.  In this scenario it is far
>>> >> easier to organize technical questions and have them accessible via
>>> >> search engine.  Also it is easier to manage relations with people whom
>>> >> you are not interested in reading ,etc.  The problem Hans raised is
>>> >> that a lot of users only want to use email.  Also putting it on web
>>> >> allows PLUG to raise money with advertising to fund events, etc.
>>> >>
>>> >>  -jmz
>>> >>
>>> >> On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 9:29 AM, Stephen wrote:
>>> >>> im game for it...
>>> >>>
>>> >>> and honestly im curious about the process
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 8:42 PM, Joshua Zeidner
>>> >>> wrote:
>>>   If everyone likes this, I can offer to write a Drupal template for
>>>  the PLUG site using this concept.
>>> 
>>>   -jmz
>>> 
>>> 
>>>  On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 8:03 PM, R P Herrold
>>>  wrote:
>>> > On Tue, 4 Aug 2009, Joshua Zeidner wrote:
>>> >
>>> >>  I made it with GIMP.  How come no one liked it when I posted
>>> >> it
>>> >>  I need to fire my PR manager.
>>> >
>>> > I read email with [al]pine in a monochrome terminal, fast and
>>> > low, and tossing read pieces out.  If it was in an early
>>> > email, I missed it.  I cannot say that I saw repetition of a
>>> > URL where I might view it, although the compliments seem to
>>> > indicate its worth.
>>> >
>>> > -- Russ herrold
>>> > ---
>>> > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
>>> > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>>> > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>>> >
>>>  ---
>>>  PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
>>>  To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>>>  http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/m

Re: Sonoran Penguin

[Joshua Zeidner]

  Nothing substantial can be organized unless there is clear
management.  Who will determine what is an 'improvement' and what is a
total failure?  PLUG needs to grow up and harness the talents that we
currently have in abundance.  Stop with these silly games pretending
no one is running the show.  Every time I ask anything of substance, I
am referred to the 'steering committee'.  Then Lisa claims there is no
committee when it is explicitly referred to.  No one ever states who
is on the steering committee, expect for at least a few references
that it includes Hans.  We do however have loads of complaints about
how crappy this list is getting and how great it was back in some
mythical past when everyone politely answered everyone else's
technical questions expeditiously and never strayed into outer
territories of political blasphemy.

  Its kind of funny and kind of tiring.

  -jmz

On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 5:36 PM, mike havens wrote:
> I joined the florida LUG and I never get messages from them except for
> announcements. So a LOT happens with PLUG.
>
> On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 8:27 PM, Joshua Zeidner  wrote:
>>
>>  Which is why practically nothing ever happens :(
>>
>>  -jmz
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 5:26 PM, Lisa Kachold
>> wrote:
>> > Committee?
>> >
>> > No, we just make improvements.  No one gets to control things.
>> >
>> > On 8/5/09, Joshua Zeidner  wrote:
>> >>  Howdy,
>> >>
>> >>   ok Im willing to make a professional Drupal template for PLUG.  The
>> >> whole process should be a few days work.  I will make design proofs
>> >> and the steering committee can decide whatever way they chose (cast
>> >> ballots, draw straws, dartboard, etc.).  The designs will be based on
>> >> the concept Lisa posted.  PLUG committee must agree to use the
>> >> template for at least one year, which includes a small attribution
>> >> link in the footer of every page.
>> >>
>> >>   perhaps this may lead to better efforts to get people to use the
>> >> site.  I did discuss with Hans the idea of using web forums to
>> >> ameliorate all these listserv problems.  In this scenario it is far
>> >> easier to organize technical questions and have them accessible via
>> >> search engine.  Also it is easier to manage relations with people whom
>> >> you are not interested in reading ,etc.  The problem Hans raised is
>> >> that a lot of users only want to use email.  Also putting it on web
>> >> allows PLUG to raise money with advertising to fund events, etc.
>> >>
>> >>  -jmz
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 9:29 AM, Stephen wrote:
>> >>> im game for it...
>> >>>
>> >>> and honestly im curious about the process
>> >>>
>> >>> On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 8:42 PM, Joshua Zeidner
>> >>> wrote:
>>   If everyone likes this, I can offer to write a Drupal template for
>>  the PLUG site using this concept.
>> 
>>   -jmz
>> 
>> 
>>  On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 8:03 PM, R P Herrold
>>  wrote:
>> > On Tue, 4 Aug 2009, Joshua Zeidner wrote:
>> >
>> >>  I made it with GIMP.  How come no one liked it when I posted
>> >> it
>> >>  I need to fire my PR manager.
>> >
>> > I read email with [al]pine in a monochrome terminal, fast and
>> > low, and tossing read pieces out.  If it was in an early
>> > email, I missed it.  I cannot say that I saw repetition of a
>> > URL where I might view it, although the compliments seem to
>> > indicate its worth.
>> >
>> > -- Russ herrold
>> > ---
>> > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
>> > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>> > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>> >
>>  ---
>>  PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
>>  To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>>  http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>> 
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you from
>> >>> rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button.
>> >>>
>> >>> Stephen
>> >>> ---
>> >>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
>> >>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>> >>> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>> >>>
>> >> ---
>> >> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
>> >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>> >> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > http://linuxgazette.net/165/kachold.html
>> > (623)239-3392
>> > (503)754-4452 www.obnosis.com
>> > ---
>> > PLUG-discuss mailing list - 

Re: Sonoran Penguin

[mike havens]

I joined the florida LUG and I never get messages from them except for
announcements. So a LOT happens with PLUG.

On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 8:27 PM, Joshua Zeidner  wrote:

>  Which is why practically nothing ever happens :(
>
>  -jmz
>
> On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 5:26 PM, Lisa Kachold
> wrote:
> > Committee?
> >
> > No, we just make improvements.  No one gets to control things.
> >
> > On 8/5/09, Joshua Zeidner  wrote:
> >>  Howdy,
> >>
> >>   ok Im willing to make a professional Drupal template for PLUG.  The
> >> whole process should be a few days work.  I will make design proofs
> >> and the steering committee can decide whatever way they chose (cast
> >> ballots, draw straws, dartboard, etc.).  The designs will be based on
> >> the concept Lisa posted.  PLUG committee must agree to use the
> >> template for at least one year, which includes a small attribution
> >> link in the footer of every page.
> >>
> >>   perhaps this may lead to better efforts to get people to use the
> >> site.  I did discuss with Hans the idea of using web forums to
> >> ameliorate all these listserv problems.  In this scenario it is far
> >> easier to organize technical questions and have them accessible via
> >> search engine.  Also it is easier to manage relations with people whom
> >> you are not interested in reading ,etc.  The problem Hans raised is
> >> that a lot of users only want to use email.  Also putting it on web
> >> allows PLUG to raise money with advertising to fund events, etc.
> >>
> >>  -jmz
> >>
> >> On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 9:29 AM, Stephen wrote:
> >>> im game for it...
> >>>
> >>> and honestly im curious about the process
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 8:42 PM, Joshua Zeidner
> wrote:
>   If everyone likes this, I can offer to write a Drupal template for
>  the PLUG site using this concept.
> 
>   -jmz
> 
> 
>  On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 8:03 PM, R P Herrold
> wrote:
> > On Tue, 4 Aug 2009, Joshua Zeidner wrote:
> >
> >>  I made it with GIMP.  How come no one liked it when I posted it
> >>  I need to fire my PR manager.
> >
> > I read email with [al]pine in a monochrome terminal, fast and
> > low, and tossing read pieces out.  If it was in an early
> > email, I missed it.  I cannot say that I saw repetition of a
> > URL where I might view it, although the compliments seem to
> > indicate its worth.
> >
> > -- Russ herrold
> > ---
> > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
> > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
> > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
> >
>  ---
>  PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
>  To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>  http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
> 
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you from
> >>> rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button.
> >>>
> >>> Stephen
> >>> ---
> >>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
> >>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
> >>> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
> >>>
> >> ---
> >> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
> >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
> >> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > http://linuxgazette.net/165/kachold.html
> > (623)239-3392
> > (503)754-4452 www.obnosis.com
> > ---
> > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
> > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
> > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
> >
> ---
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> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>



-- 
:-)~MIKE~(-:
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Re: BAD kubuntu

[Trent Shipley]

Dazed_75 wrote:
> 
> 
> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 8:07 PM, Trent Shipley  > wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Memtest86 passed.
> 
> So far people have also suggested the cause as hardware
> incompatibility, hard drive issues, BIOS (Dell's site does recommend
> updating the BIOS for my motherboard but their program won't run from
> a CD and I couldn't figure out how to make a bootable DOS flash
> drive), usb drive/video card/other card/any peripheral, acpi (I think
> this issue is fixed in newer versions of Ubuntu), and my personal
> theory that the problem is fundamentally caused by an incompatible
> combination of software and hardware.  Software-hardware problems
> would explain why over several kernel iterations some are stable and
> run beautifully while others won't boot.   Without the boot log it's
> all superstitious guess work.  If I had another Linux machine I'd do
> surgery and mount the problem system's drive to read the log.
> 
> I think RedSeven is going to get some of my money.
> 
> Trent,
> 
> I read back through your posts and two things I have not seen from you are:
> 
> 1) any details about your hardware other than it being a Dell (model,
> memory, disk space, etc)
> 2) do you need to retain any files/data from the system for which you
> don't have backups
> 
> Please provide that information.
> 
> Depending on the answers and how quickly you need to get this resolved,
> you might not have to go to the expense of a professional repair shop. 
> If necessary we might be able to get together to work on this.  Too bad
> we did not have it to work on at the installfest.  You said near ASU
> West.  Are you a student?
> 
> -- 
> Dazed_75 a.k.a. Larry
> 

I wound up taking the computer to Red7.  The guy at the desk said the
problem was related to file corruption.  They fixed the files, problem
solved.  Some other things were also solved, like now it goes to sleep
and the screen saver runs.  It hasn't done that since I upgraded from
the Ubuntu 7.04 that came with the system.

Unfortunately, when I got it home, it behaved just like before.  It quit
partway through the boot sequence.  One participant in this thread
suggested minimizing the system peripherals to see if I could get a
boot.  It worked.  The culprit was the keyboard.  It was an old style
PS2 keyboard connected by a PS2 to USB dongle.  You could toggle it
between QWERTY and Dvorak.

I'm gonna miss that keyboard.
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Re: Sonoran Penguin

[Joshua Zeidner]

 Which is why practically nothing ever happens :(

  -jmz

On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 5:26 PM, Lisa Kachold wrote:
> Committee?
>
> No, we just make improvements.  No one gets to control things.
>
> On 8/5/09, Joshua Zeidner  wrote:
>>  Howdy,
>>
>>   ok Im willing to make a professional Drupal template for PLUG.  The
>> whole process should be a few days work.  I will make design proofs
>> and the steering committee can decide whatever way they chose (cast
>> ballots, draw straws, dartboard, etc.).  The designs will be based on
>> the concept Lisa posted.  PLUG committee must agree to use the
>> template for at least one year, which includes a small attribution
>> link in the footer of every page.
>>
>>   perhaps this may lead to better efforts to get people to use the
>> site.  I did discuss with Hans the idea of using web forums to
>> ameliorate all these listserv problems.  In this scenario it is far
>> easier to organize technical questions and have them accessible via
>> search engine.  Also it is easier to manage relations with people whom
>> you are not interested in reading ,etc.  The problem Hans raised is
>> that a lot of users only want to use email.  Also putting it on web
>> allows PLUG to raise money with advertising to fund events, etc.
>>
>>  -jmz
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 9:29 AM, Stephen wrote:
>>> im game for it...
>>>
>>> and honestly im curious about the process
>>>
>>> On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 8:42 PM, Joshua Zeidner wrote:
  If everyone likes this, I can offer to write a Drupal template for
 the PLUG site using this concept.

  -jmz


 On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 8:03 PM, R P Herrold wrote:
> On Tue, 4 Aug 2009, Joshua Zeidner wrote:
>
>>  I made it with GIMP.  How come no one liked it when I posted it
>>  I need to fire my PR manager.
>
> I read email with [al]pine in a monochrome terminal, fast and
> low, and tossing read pieces out.  If it was in an early
> email, I missed it.  I cannot say that I saw repetition of a
> URL where I might view it, although the compliments seem to
> indicate its worth.
>
> -- Russ herrold
> ---
> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>
 ---
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you from
>>> rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button.
>>>
>>> Stephen
>>> ---
>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
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>>>
>> ---
>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
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>>
>
>
> --
> http://linuxgazette.net/165/kachold.html
> (623)239-3392
> (503)754-4452 www.obnosis.com
> ---
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> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
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Re: Sonoran Penguin

[Lisa Kachold]

Committee?

No, we just make improvements.  No one gets to control things.

On 8/5/09, Joshua Zeidner  wrote:
>  Howdy,
>
>   ok Im willing to make a professional Drupal template for PLUG.  The
> whole process should be a few days work.  I will make design proofs
> and the steering committee can decide whatever way they chose (cast
> ballots, draw straws, dartboard, etc.).  The designs will be based on
> the concept Lisa posted.  PLUG committee must agree to use the
> template for at least one year, which includes a small attribution
> link in the footer of every page.
>
>   perhaps this may lead to better efforts to get people to use the
> site.  I did discuss with Hans the idea of using web forums to
> ameliorate all these listserv problems.  In this scenario it is far
> easier to organize technical questions and have them accessible via
> search engine.  Also it is easier to manage relations with people whom
> you are not interested in reading ,etc.  The problem Hans raised is
> that a lot of users only want to use email.  Also putting it on web
> allows PLUG to raise money with advertising to fund events, etc.
>
>  -jmz
>
> On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 9:29 AM, Stephen wrote:
>> im game for it...
>>
>> and honestly im curious about the process
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 8:42 PM, Joshua Zeidner wrote:
>>>  If everyone likes this, I can offer to write a Drupal template for
>>> the PLUG site using this concept.
>>>
>>>  -jmz
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 8:03 PM, R P Herrold wrote:
 On Tue, 4 Aug 2009, Joshua Zeidner wrote:

>  I made it with GIMP.  How come no one liked it when I posted it
>  I need to fire my PR manager.

 I read email with [al]pine in a monochrome terminal, fast and
 low, and tossing read pieces out.  If it was in an early
 email, I missed it.  I cannot say that I saw repetition of a
 URL where I might view it, although the compliments seem to
 indicate its worth.

 -- Russ herrold
 ---
 PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
 To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
 http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss

>>> ---
>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>>> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you from
>> rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button.
>>
>> Stephen
>> ---
>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>>
> ---
> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>


-- 
http://linuxgazette.net/165/kachold.html
(623)239-3392
(503)754-4452 www.obnosis.com
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Re: Using the Broken Filter to find packages in Synaptic package manager

[AZ RUNE]

Here is the error

E: /var/cache/apt/archives/libnspr4-dev_4.7.5-0ubuntu0.9.04.1_i386.deb:
trying to overwrite `/usr/share/aclocal/nspr.m4', which is also in
package kompozer-dev

On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 3:45 PM, AZ RUNE wrote:
> I know I have two broken package that won't let me update libnspr4-dev
> (Development files for netscape) but I am having the darndest time
> finding them even when I try to config the broken filter to point them
> out.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Brian
>
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Re: Using the Broken Filter to find packages in Synaptic package manager

[Ryan Rix]

AZ RUNE wrote:

> I know I have two broken package that won't let me update libnspr4-dev
> (Development files for netscape) but I am having the darndest time
> finding them even when I try to config the broken filter to point them
> out.
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> Brian

What's broken about them? Could you be more specific in your problem?

Have you tried dpkg-reconfigure -a or similar?

-- 
---
Ryan Rix
(623)-826-0051

Now I know someone out there is going to claim, "Well then, UNIX is 
intuitive,
because you only need to learn 5000 commands, and then everything else 
follows
from that! Har har har!"
-- Andy Bates on "intuitive interfaces", slightly defending Macs

http://hackersramblings.wordpress.com | http://twitter.com/phrkonaleash
XMPP: phrkonale...@gmail.com  | MSN: phrkonale...@yahoo.com
AIM:  phrkonaleash| Yahoo: phrkonaleash
IRC:  phrkon...@irc.freenode.net/#srcedit,#teensonlinux,#plugaz and
  countless other FOSS channels.


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Using the Broken Filter to find packages in Synaptic package manager

[AZ RUNE]

I know I have two broken package that won't let me update libnspr4-dev
(Development files for netscape) but I am having the darndest time
finding them even when I try to config the broken filter to point them
out.

Any ideas?

Brian
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Re: Sonoran Penguin

[Joshua Zeidner]

 Howdy,

  ok Im willing to make a professional Drupal template for PLUG.  The
whole process should be a few days work.  I will make design proofs
and the steering committee can decide whatever way they chose (cast
ballots, draw straws, dartboard, etc.).  The designs will be based on
the concept Lisa posted.  PLUG committee must agree to use the
template for at least one year, which includes a small attribution
link in the footer of every page.

  perhaps this may lead to better efforts to get people to use the
site.  I did discuss with Hans the idea of using web forums to
ameliorate all these listserv problems.  In this scenario it is far
easier to organize technical questions and have them accessible via
search engine.  Also it is easier to manage relations with people whom
you are not interested in reading ,etc.  The problem Hans raised is
that a lot of users only want to use email.  Also putting it on web
allows PLUG to raise money with advertising to fund events, etc.

 -jmz

On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 9:29 AM, Stephen wrote:
> im game for it...
>
> and honestly im curious about the process
>
> On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 8:42 PM, Joshua Zeidner wrote:
>>  If everyone likes this, I can offer to write a Drupal template for
>> the PLUG site using this concept.
>>
>>  -jmz
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 8:03 PM, R P Herrold wrote:
>>> On Tue, 4 Aug 2009, Joshua Zeidner wrote:
>>>
  I made it with GIMP.  How come no one liked it when I posted it
  I need to fire my PR manager.
>>>
>>> I read email with [al]pine in a monochrome terminal, fast and
>>> low, and tossing read pieces out.  If it was in an early
>>> email, I missed it.  I cannot say that I saw repetition of a
>>> URL where I might view it, although the compliments seem to
>>> indicate its worth.
>>>
>>> -- Russ herrold
>>> ---
>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>>> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>>>
>> ---
>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>>
>
>
>
> --
> A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you from
> rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button.
>
> Stephen
> ---
> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>
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Re: Restoring defaults in Ubuntu Gnome

[Michael Butash]

I'm too impatient to stick with hardy, invariably I need fixes/features
in the new ones no one feels like backporting. 

There is/was a workaround for it by using a different yahoo login host,
scsa.msg.yahoo.com that worked for me before getting the pidgin fix.

Have you tried the ppa for pidgin-developers?

deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/pidgin-developers/ppa/ubuntu hardy main

I don't remember exactly if they had a hardy build, but I would hope so
since it is *lts*...

-mb


On Wed, 2009-08-05 at 12:58 -0700, Eric Shubert wrote:
> FWIW, I'm patiently sticking with the LTS track (Heron at this point).
> 
> The only problem I'm having with it (that I know of) is getting the 
> update to Pidgin for yahoo backported.
> 
> Michael Butash wrote:
> > Contemplate long and hard upgrading, I've had a host of quirky issues
> > since updating ibex to jaunty that have been annoying me.  These include
> > screen saver not working (and subsequent locking), random x crashes when
> > I scroll wheel in firefox (wtf?), and still the same old memory leaks
> > that I've seemed to have for years across ubuntu releases.  I found
> > launchpad reports for the x crash, but seems to be at a dead-end with a
> > lot of complaints.  Probably better doing a clean install as always with
> > ubuntu, but ymmv.
> > 
> > On the upside, pulseaudio is much improved (if you get the updated
> > versions from custom ppa - no backports to ibex) with bluetooth device
> > support, which was more or less my primary reason to upgrade.  Boot
> > times are much better, and Evolution has gotten more stable as well -
> > I've had no issues with it what so ever in Jaunty.
> > 
> > -mb
> > 
> > 
> > On Wed, 2009-08-05 at 11:53 -0700, Joe wrote:
> >> I managed to find the obscure link I used to removed gnome-panel in the
> >> first place (and subsequently restored it). Basically, I opened
> >> gconf-editor, went to /apps/gnome/session/required_components and
> >> removed the entry for "panel". All I had to do was add "gnome-panel"
> >> back in, remove AVN and Stalonetray from my session and log out. Once
> >> the panel was running, I tweaked to my preferences and I'm back in 
> >> business!
> >>
> >> Had I used your method, I assume it would have been something like...
> >>
> >> $ gconftool --recursive-unset /apps/gnome/session/required_components
> >>
> >> But, I just fixed it by hand. I also didn't try just removing .gnome
> >> since it didn't seem like there was anything in there anyway.
> >>
> >> Thanks for the input though everyone. Now to contemplate the move to
> >> 9.04 (finally!).
> >>
> >> -Joe
> >>
> >> Ted Gould wrote:
> >>> On Wed, 2009-08-05 at 09:57 -0700, Joe wrote:
>  Is there a way to quickly change all my setting back to defaults? I
>  realize I could make a new user or possibly blow away my home dir and
>  start totally fresh, but I rather do neither (unless those are the only
>  options, of course). I would work backwards and restore the panel and
>  such, but I can't seem to find the directions I originally followed.
> >>> It won't reset everything but I believe (but I'm unwilling to test :)
> >>> that this will work:
> >>>
> >>>   $ gconftool --recursive-unset /
> >>>
> >>> Thought it will get any application that uses GConf's settings as well.
> >>> You can be more specific by choosing something other that "/" -- which
> >>> might be a good idea.
> >>>
> >>>   --Ted
> >>>
> 
> 

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Re: Memory leaks in Ubuntu?

[Michael Butash]

I should have mentioned, I have no issues with servers, only desktops
running x.  I have a server in my house with a year and a half uptime
with vmware on hardy.  :)

-mb


On Wed, 2009-08-05 at 13:32 -0700, Stephen wrote:
> I honestly have not seen this as an issue before, but i usually poked
> my machines with a sick until they rebooted once a week because of
> what i was doing to them.
> 
> the servers i have running run for a month at a time without a reboot.
> 
> On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 12:57 PM, Michael Butash wrote:
> > Has anyone else seen or experienced persistent memory leaks with ubuntu
> > 32bit or 64?  I've literally had issues with it that may or may not be
> > particularly ubuntu issues back to 7.04 that I first noticed.  The only
> > thing really in common system-wise is the hardware, and I somewhat
> > suspect it's Nvidia driver related, but nothing really indicates any
> > particular app.  My primary desktop I use heavily just about anything,
> > but I have another system that's sole purpose is to play movies and
> > music on my TV I do almost nothing with that experiences the same
> > issues, NVidia card as well.  With compiz or without this happens.  Only
> > thing I haven't tried is running the NV drivers, but I rely on the
> > acceleration far too much on both systems.
> >
> > What I have noticed is there are no direct applications hogging memory
> > via top, rather it seems virtual memory ends up simply taking over all
> > physical memory and keeping it as "inactive" via "vmstat -a".  Signs of
> > this include firefox flipping out, rendering/scaling video larger than
> > default, and just anything else that requires excessive memory use
> > having issues.  I graph my physical memory usage via snmp, and I can
> > pretty accurately gauge how long I have until I need to do a hard reboot
> > to reclaim the "inactive" memory.  It mostly works even memory starved
> > in this condition, just limits my usage, and even restarting x doesn't
> > help.  Interestingly enough, neither system ever swaps at all...
> >
> > Has anyone successfully ever dealt with an issue like this killing
> > virtual memory?  I really can't imagine I'm the only one...  I've hunted
> > far and wide of the great interweb for a way to release the "inactive"
> > memory, as I'd even just go so far as to purge it once a day via cron if
> > I had to, but I can find nothing of forcefully clearing inactive/dirty
> > virtual memory space.  I've seen others complain of the same behavior,
> > but have only seen the same rhetoric that "trust linux virtual memory
> > behavior, that's what it's supposed to do".  Act like a stupid windoze
> > me install and reboot daily?  I think not...
> >
> > -mb
> >
> > ---
> > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
> > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
> > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
> >
> 
> 
> 

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Re: Memory leaks in Ubuntu?

[Stephen]

I honestly have not seen this as an issue before, but i usually poked
my machines with a sick until they rebooted once a week because of
what i was doing to them.

the servers i have running run for a month at a time without a reboot.

On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 12:57 PM, Michael Butash wrote:
> Has anyone else seen or experienced persistent memory leaks with ubuntu
> 32bit or 64?  I've literally had issues with it that may or may not be
> particularly ubuntu issues back to 7.04 that I first noticed.  The only
> thing really in common system-wise is the hardware, and I somewhat
> suspect it's Nvidia driver related, but nothing really indicates any
> particular app.  My primary desktop I use heavily just about anything,
> but I have another system that's sole purpose is to play movies and
> music on my TV I do almost nothing with that experiences the same
> issues, NVidia card as well.  With compiz or without this happens.  Only
> thing I haven't tried is running the NV drivers, but I rely on the
> acceleration far too much on both systems.
>
> What I have noticed is there are no direct applications hogging memory
> via top, rather it seems virtual memory ends up simply taking over all
> physical memory and keeping it as "inactive" via "vmstat -a".  Signs of
> this include firefox flipping out, rendering/scaling video larger than
> default, and just anything else that requires excessive memory use
> having issues.  I graph my physical memory usage via snmp, and I can
> pretty accurately gauge how long I have until I need to do a hard reboot
> to reclaim the "inactive" memory.  It mostly works even memory starved
> in this condition, just limits my usage, and even restarting x doesn't
> help.  Interestingly enough, neither system ever swaps at all...
>
> Has anyone successfully ever dealt with an issue like this killing
> virtual memory?  I really can't imagine I'm the only one...  I've hunted
> far and wide of the great interweb for a way to release the "inactive"
> memory, as I'd even just go so far as to purge it once a day via cron if
> I had to, but I can find nothing of forcefully clearing inactive/dirty
> virtual memory space.  I've seen others complain of the same behavior,
> but have only seen the same rhetoric that "trust linux virtual memory
> behavior, that's what it's supposed to do".  Act like a stupid windoze
> me install and reboot daily?  I think not...
>
> -mb
>
> ---
> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>



-- 
A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you from
rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button.

Stephen
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Re: Restoring defaults in Ubuntu Gnome

[Eric Shubert]

FWIW, I'm patiently sticking with the LTS track (Heron at this point).

The only problem I'm having with it (that I know of) is getting the 
update to Pidgin for yahoo backported.

Michael Butash wrote:
> Contemplate long and hard upgrading, I've had a host of quirky issues
> since updating ibex to jaunty that have been annoying me.  These include
> screen saver not working (and subsequent locking), random x crashes when
> I scroll wheel in firefox (wtf?), and still the same old memory leaks
> that I've seemed to have for years across ubuntu releases.  I found
> launchpad reports for the x crash, but seems to be at a dead-end with a
> lot of complaints.  Probably better doing a clean install as always with
> ubuntu, but ymmv.
> 
> On the upside, pulseaudio is much improved (if you get the updated
> versions from custom ppa - no backports to ibex) with bluetooth device
> support, which was more or less my primary reason to upgrade.  Boot
> times are much better, and Evolution has gotten more stable as well -
> I've had no issues with it what so ever in Jaunty.
> 
> -mb
> 
> 
> On Wed, 2009-08-05 at 11:53 -0700, Joe wrote:
>> I managed to find the obscure link I used to removed gnome-panel in the
>> first place (and subsequently restored it). Basically, I opened
>> gconf-editor, went to /apps/gnome/session/required_components and
>> removed the entry for "panel". All I had to do was add "gnome-panel"
>> back in, remove AVN and Stalonetray from my session and log out. Once
>> the panel was running, I tweaked to my preferences and I'm back in business!
>>
>> Had I used your method, I assume it would have been something like...
>>
>> $ gconftool --recursive-unset /apps/gnome/session/required_components
>>
>> But, I just fixed it by hand. I also didn't try just removing .gnome
>> since it didn't seem like there was anything in there anyway.
>>
>> Thanks for the input though everyone. Now to contemplate the move to
>> 9.04 (finally!).
>>
>> -Joe
>>
>> Ted Gould wrote:
>>> On Wed, 2009-08-05 at 09:57 -0700, Joe wrote:
 Is there a way to quickly change all my setting back to defaults? I
 realize I could make a new user or possibly blow away my home dir and
 start totally fresh, but I rather do neither (unless those are the only
 options, of course). I would work backwards and restore the panel and
 such, but I can't seem to find the directions I originally followed.
>>> It won't reset everything but I believe (but I'm unwilling to test :)
>>> that this will work:
>>>
>>>   $ gconftool --recursive-unset /
>>>
>>> Thought it will get any application that uses GConf's settings as well.
>>> You can be more specific by choosing something other that "/" -- which
>>> might be a good idea.
>>>
>>> --Ted
>>>


-- 
-Eric 'shubes'

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Memory leaks in Ubuntu?

[Michael Butash]

Has anyone else seen or experienced persistent memory leaks with ubuntu
32bit or 64?  I've literally had issues with it that may or may not be
particularly ubuntu issues back to 7.04 that I first noticed.  The only
thing really in common system-wise is the hardware, and I somewhat
suspect it's Nvidia driver related, but nothing really indicates any
particular app.  My primary desktop I use heavily just about anything,
but I have another system that's sole purpose is to play movies and
music on my TV I do almost nothing with that experiences the same
issues, NVidia card as well.  With compiz or without this happens.  Only
thing I haven't tried is running the NV drivers, but I rely on the
acceleration far too much on both systems.

What I have noticed is there are no direct applications hogging memory
via top, rather it seems virtual memory ends up simply taking over all
physical memory and keeping it as "inactive" via "vmstat -a".  Signs of
this include firefox flipping out, rendering/scaling video larger than
default, and just anything else that requires excessive memory use
having issues.  I graph my physical memory usage via snmp, and I can
pretty accurately gauge how long I have until I need to do a hard reboot
to reclaim the "inactive" memory.  It mostly works even memory starved
in this condition, just limits my usage, and even restarting x doesn't
help.  Interestingly enough, neither system ever swaps at all...

Has anyone successfully ever dealt with an issue like this killing
virtual memory?  I really can't imagine I'm the only one...  I've hunted
far and wide of the great interweb for a way to release the "inactive"
memory, as I'd even just go so far as to purge it once a day via cron if
I had to, but I can find nothing of forcefully clearing inactive/dirty
virtual memory space.  I've seen others complain of the same behavior,
but have only seen the same rhetoric that "trust linux virtual memory
behavior, that's what it's supposed to do".  Act like a stupid windoze
me install and reboot daily?  I think not...

-mb

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Re: Restoring defaults in Ubuntu Gnome

[Michael Butash]

Contemplate long and hard upgrading, I've had a host of quirky issues
since updating ibex to jaunty that have been annoying me.  These include
screen saver not working (and subsequent locking), random x crashes when
I scroll wheel in firefox (wtf?), and still the same old memory leaks
that I've seemed to have for years across ubuntu releases.  I found
launchpad reports for the x crash, but seems to be at a dead-end with a
lot of complaints.  Probably better doing a clean install as always with
ubuntu, but ymmv.

On the upside, pulseaudio is much improved (if you get the updated
versions from custom ppa - no backports to ibex) with bluetooth device
support, which was more or less my primary reason to upgrade.  Boot
times are much better, and Evolution has gotten more stable as well -
I've had no issues with it what so ever in Jaunty.

-mb


On Wed, 2009-08-05 at 11:53 -0700, Joe wrote:
> I managed to find the obscure link I used to removed gnome-panel in the
> first place (and subsequently restored it). Basically, I opened
> gconf-editor, went to /apps/gnome/session/required_components and
> removed the entry for "panel". All I had to do was add "gnome-panel"
> back in, remove AVN and Stalonetray from my session and log out. Once
> the panel was running, I tweaked to my preferences and I'm back in business!
> 
> Had I used your method, I assume it would have been something like...
> 
> $ gconftool --recursive-unset /apps/gnome/session/required_components
> 
> But, I just fixed it by hand. I also didn't try just removing .gnome
> since it didn't seem like there was anything in there anyway.
> 
> Thanks for the input though everyone. Now to contemplate the move to
> 9.04 (finally!).
> 
> -Joe
> 
> Ted Gould wrote:
> > On Wed, 2009-08-05 at 09:57 -0700, Joe wrote:
> >> Is there a way to quickly change all my setting back to defaults? I
> >> realize I could make a new user or possibly blow away my home dir and
> >> start totally fresh, but I rather do neither (unless those are the only
> >> options, of course). I would work backwards and restore the panel and
> >> such, but I can't seem to find the directions I originally followed.
> > 
> > It won't reset everything but I believe (but I'm unwilling to test :)
> > that this will work:
> > 
> >   $ gconftool --recursive-unset /
> > 
> > Thought it will get any application that uses GConf's settings as well.
> > You can be more specific by choosing something other that "/" -- which
> > might be a good idea.
> > 
> > --Ted
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
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Re: Restoring defaults in Ubuntu Gnome

[Joe]

I managed to find the obscure link I used to removed gnome-panel in the
first place (and subsequently restored it). Basically, I opened
gconf-editor, went to /apps/gnome/session/required_components and
removed the entry for "panel". All I had to do was add "gnome-panel"
back in, remove AVN and Stalonetray from my session and log out. Once
the panel was running, I tweaked to my preferences and I'm back in business!

Had I used your method, I assume it would have been something like...

$ gconftool --recursive-unset /apps/gnome/session/required_components

But, I just fixed it by hand. I also didn't try just removing .gnome
since it didn't seem like there was anything in there anyway.

Thanks for the input though everyone. Now to contemplate the move to
9.04 (finally!).

-Joe

Ted Gould wrote:
> On Wed, 2009-08-05 at 09:57 -0700, Joe wrote:
>> Is there a way to quickly change all my setting back to defaults? I
>> realize I could make a new user or possibly blow away my home dir and
>> start totally fresh, but I rather do neither (unless those are the only
>> options, of course). I would work backwards and restore the panel and
>> such, but I can't seem to find the directions I originally followed.
> 
> It won't reset everything but I believe (but I'm unwilling to test :)
> that this will work:
> 
>   $ gconftool --recursive-unset /
> 
> Thought it will get any application that uses GConf's settings as well.
> You can be more specific by choosing something other that "/" -- which
> might be a good idea.
> 
>   --Ted
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Restoring defaults in Ubuntu Gnome

[Ted Gould]

On Wed, 2009-08-05 at 09:57 -0700, Joe wrote:
> Is there a way to quickly change all my setting back to defaults? I
> realize I could make a new user or possibly blow away my home dir and
> start totally fresh, but I rather do neither (unless those are the only
> options, of course). I would work backwards and restore the panel and
> such, but I can't seem to find the directions I originally followed.

It won't reset everything but I believe (but I'm unwilling to test :)
that this will work:

  $ gconftool --recursive-unset /

Thought it will get any application that uses GConf's settings as well.
You can be more specific by choosing something other that "/" -- which
might be a good idea.

--Ted



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Re: Restoring defaults in Ubuntu Gnome

[Stephen]

You can remove the .gnome directory Wich should reset gnome only


On 8/5/09, Joe  wrote:
> Hey all,
>
> So, a while back, I made a ton of changes to my main user account. I
> removed the gnome-panel completely and replaced it with Avant Window
> Navigator and Stalonetray. They have served me pretty well for a while,
> but I think I want to go back to the default Gnome settings. Default
> session, default panels everything; like they were when I logged in
> the account for the very first time
>
> Is there a way to quickly change all my setting back to defaults? I
> realize I could make a new user or possibly blow away my home dir and
> start totally fresh, but I rather do neither (unless those are the only
> options, of course). I would work backwards and restore the panel and
> such, but I can't seem to find the directions I originally followed.
>
> Any help is appreciated.
>
> -Joe
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Sent from my mobile device

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rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button.

Stephen
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Restoring defaults in Ubuntu Gnome

[Joe]

Hey all,

So, a while back, I made a ton of changes to my main user account. I
removed the gnome-panel completely and replaced it with Avant Window
Navigator and Stalonetray. They have served me pretty well for a while,
but I think I want to go back to the default Gnome settings. Default
session, default panels everything; like they were when I logged in
the account for the very first time

Is there a way to quickly change all my setting back to defaults? I
realize I could make a new user or possibly blow away my home dir and
start totally fresh, but I rather do neither (unless those are the only
options, of course). I would work backwards and restore the panel and
such, but I can't seem to find the directions I originally followed.

Any help is appreciated.

-Joe
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Re: Sonoran Penguin

[Stephen]

im game for it...

and honestly im curious about the process

On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 8:42 PM, Joshua Zeidner wrote:
>  If everyone likes this, I can offer to write a Drupal template for
> the PLUG site using this concept.
>
>  -jmz
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 8:03 PM, R P Herrold wrote:
>> On Tue, 4 Aug 2009, Joshua Zeidner wrote:
>>
>>>  I made it with GIMP.  How come no one liked it when I posted it
>>>  I need to fire my PR manager.
>>
>> I read email with [al]pine in a monochrome terminal, fast and
>> low, and tossing read pieces out.  If it was in an early
>> email, I missed it.  I cannot say that I saw repetition of a
>> URL where I might view it, although the compliments seem to
>> indicate its worth.
>>
>> -- Russ herrold
>> ---
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rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button.

Stephen
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Re: Sonoran Penguin

[Stephen]

its because she has been posting all the goofy but entertainaing
motivationals/demotivationals regarding linux and other geek things...

and kittens...

On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 6:40 PM, Joshua Zeidner wrote:
>  I made it with GIMP.  How come no one liked it when I posted it
> I need to fire my PR manager.
>
>  come to think of it, it does look better when Lisa posted it. :)
>
>  -jmz
>
> On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 6:35 PM, Lisa Kachold wrote:
>> I can't remember who made it!  I think it was one of younger guys!
>>
>> I don't have all that email thread from 2 years ago!
>>
>> On 8/3/09, Dazed_75  wrote:
>>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 7:33 PM, Lisa Kachold
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Just like it says!

 --

 (623)239-3392
 (503)754-4452 www.obnosis.com

>>>
>>> I love it as well.  The silhouette effect is so different from the usual
>>> penguin stuff that it really stands out.
>>>
>>> Lisa, if you made this, I wonder if you tried making the penguin more in the
>>> foreground with something so he could be a bit bigger in the picture
>>> compared to the saguaro without it just looking like an abnormally large
>>> penguin?
>>>
>>> --
>>> Dazed_75 a.k.a. Larry
>>>
>>> The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions,
>>> that I wish it always to be kept alive.
>>>  - Thomas Jefferson
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> http://linuxgazette.net/165/kachold.html
>> (623)239-3392
>> (503)754-4452 www.obnosis.com
>> ---
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rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button.

Stephen
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Re: Sonoran Penguin

[Lisa Kachold]

I also suggested this to Hans 19 months ago when he first published it
on the list.

I suggested it twice more, but never got a response.

I built a new server to update our Debian and Drupal, but it didn't go
anywhere, we are all really busy with other things.

The theme can be easily changed and I have access to do so.

I agree this is a great idea!

The drupal version is updated 4.7 I believe --> 5.

The new server is patched 8.04 with Drupal 6 (but it's not in place) -
None really planning for it that I know unless Deru or someone in Hans
"inner circle".

I could do it (have thousands of server build migration/upgrade
history) but already heavily involved in Linux Security Teams (and
feeding myself [like everyone in this harsh economy]).

On 8/5/09, Alan Dayley  wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 7:13 AM, Lisa Kachold wrote:
>> Joshua has a new PLUG image everyone loves.
>>
>> He is offering to write a Drupal template for PLUG.
>
> My response is: Go, Joshua, go!
>
> Alan
>


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Re: Sonoran Penguin

[Alan Dayley]

On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 7:13 AM, Lisa Kachold wrote:
> Joshua has a new PLUG image everyone loves.
>
> He is offering to write a Drupal template for PLUG.

My response is: Go, Joshua, go!

Alan
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Fwd: Sonoran Penguin

[Lisa Kachold]

Joshua has a new PLUG image everyone loves.

He is offering to write a Drupal template for PLUG.

-- Forwarded message --
From: Joshua Zeidner 
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 20:42:34 -0700
Subject: Re: Sonoran Penguin
To: Main PLUG discussion list 

  If everyone likes this, I can offer to write a Drupal template for
the PLUG site using this concept.

  -jmz


On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 8:03 PM, R P Herrold wrote:
> On Tue, 4 Aug 2009, Joshua Zeidner wrote:
>
>>  I made it with GIMP.  How come no one liked it when I posted it
>>  I need to fire my PR manager.
>
> I read email with [al]pine in a monochrome terminal, fast and
> low, and tossing read pieces out.  If it was in an early
> email, I missed it.  I cannot say that I saw repetition of a
> URL where I might view it, although the compliments seem to
> indicate its worth.
>
> -- Russ herrold
> ---
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Re: Mysql updating dates in a table

[Alex Dean]

On Aug 4, 2009, at 5:44 PM, Craig White wrote:

I need to update almost all (but not quite all) records in a data  
table
because the dates were imported like '08/04/09' instead of  
'2009-08-04'


I am looking at the mysql reference manual but it doesn't appear  
that it

would be easy to script a line by line 'update' from a csv file.

Now I still have the csv files (and a copy with the dates fixed) and I
suppose I could 'find', 'delete' and then 'import' again but there are
relational records so mysql would probably prevent me from doing that
unless I suspend all relational checks when I delete those records  
prior

to reimporting them with the fixed dates.

What's the best way to accomplish this?

Craig


I'm not sure if this helps, but MySQL has a 'csv' storage engine.   
This allows you to load a CSV file as a table like any other in the  
database.  Once loaded, you can move the data to another table with  
something like 'INSERT INTO real_table SELECT * FROM csv_table'.  Or,  
perhaps in your case a multi-table update from the CSV file to your  
target table might do the trick.


http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/csv-storage-engine.html

alex


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