Re: OT:

[Michael Butash]

Apparently not under linux.

Unless it's nacl, which usually requires acts of voodoo to behave and 
I'd assume typically do without than deal with.


-mb


On 11/14/2012 11:02 PM, Joe Gibbs wrote:

How about this for a OT  topic

Everyone should go take a look at this and play around with it. 45 years
ago I wanted to build something like this using small lights and lots of
wire. Being able to see it on my 23" computer screen via the laptop is
amazing and blows my mind.


New Chrome experiment maps 100,000 stars in
interactive visualization




*100,000 Stars* is an interactive visualization of the stellar
neighborhood created for theGoogle Chrome
 web browser. It shows the real location
of over 100,000 nearby stars. Zooming in reveals 87 individually
identified stars and our solar system. The galaxy view is an artist’s
rendition.

http://9to5google.com/2012/11/14/new-chrome-experiment-maps-10-stars-in-interactive-visualization/


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Re: virus

[Michael Butash]

I think I have backorfice2k floating around in a zip file somewhere 
still for nostalgia.  WinME might still be cool in nigeria, some remote 
control for fun and profit.


-mb


On 11/14/2012 04:50 PM, Ryan Rix wrote:

Maybe keep spamming the list like this and someone will send you another
game...

I really need to re-institute my email killfile, but you really just provide
too much popcorn, I cannot fathom losing such entertaining posts as these.

r.

On Fri 9 November 2012 10:17:29 Michael Havens wrote:

Well... back in 96 (before I ran linux) someone sent me a 'game'. I opened
the 'game' and my computer locked up and had to be restored. That is
actually what I wanted :) Also, I would never send it to a US based

scammer.


How do I discover where 'phx.gbl'. traceroute gets to 10 hops then gives

me:


* * *

the last 'real' return I get is:

10ge-ten1-2.mia-89p-cor-2.peer1.net (216.187.124.129)  153.151 ms
  153.577 ms
   154.080 ms

:-)~MIKE~(-:
On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 8:28 AM, Kevin Fries  wrote:

Michael,

You are thinking far too one dimensionally.  What you really need is the
routing and account numbers for an account owned by Alcida.  Then let

them

steal away.  Let the jerks explain how they illegally obtained this
information to Homeland Security.   Ha ha ha ha

I got your humor, guys ease up and stop taking thing so seriously.

Kevin

On Nov 9, 2012 5:54 AM, "Michael Havens"  wrote:

could someone send me a virus that I could 'share' with all the thieves
that try to scam me?

:-)~MIKE~(-:
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Re: OT:

[Wayne Davis]

On 11/14/2012 11:02 PM, Joe Gibbs wrote:

How about this for a OT  topic

Everyone should go take a look at this and play around with it. 45 
years ago I wanted to build something like this using small lights and 
lots of wire. Being able to see it on my 23" computer screen via the 
laptop is amazing and blows my mind.



New Chrome experiment maps 100,000 stars in
interactive visualization




*100,000 Stars* is an interactive visualization of the stellar 
neighborhood created for theGoogle Chrome 
 web browser. It shows the real location 
of over 100,000 nearby stars. Zooming in reveals 87 individually 
identified stars and our solar system. The galaxy view is an artist's 
rendition.


http://9to5google.com/2012/11/14/new-chrome-experiment-maps-10-stars-in-interactive-visualization/


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Nice segue!  ;-)
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Re: OT:

[Michael Havens]

didn't work for me either.
:-)~MIKE~(-:


On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 2:06 AM, Michael Butash  wrote:

> Apparently not under linux.
>
> Unless it's nacl, which usually requires acts of voodoo to behave and I'd
> assume typically do without than deal with.
>
> -mb
>
>
>
> On 11/14/2012 11:02 PM, Joe Gibbs wrote:
>
>> How about this for a OT  topic
>>
>> Everyone should go take a look at this and play around with it. 45 years
>> ago I wanted to build something like this using small lights and lots of
>> wire. Being able to see it on my 23" computer screen via the laptop is
>> amazing and blows my mind.
>>
>>
>> New Chrome experiment maps 100,000 stars in
>> interactive visualization
>> > maps-10-stars-in-**interactive-visualization/
>> >
>>
>>
>> *100,000 Stars* is an interactive visualization of the stellar
>>
>> neighborhood created for theGoogle Chrome
>>  web browser. It shows the real location
>>
>> of over 100,000 nearby stars. Zooming in reveals 87 individually
>> identified stars and our solar system. The galaxy view is an artist’s
>> rendition.
>>
>> http://9to5google.com/2012/11/**14/new-chrome-experiment-maps-**
>> 10-stars-in-interactive-**visualization/
>>
>>
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Re: virus

[Michael Havens]

huh?
:-)~MIKE~(-:


On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 2:14 AM, Michael Butash  wrote:

> I think I have backorfice2k floating around in a zip file somewhere still
> for nostalgia.  WinME might still be cool in nigeria, some remote control
> for fun and profit.
>
> -mb
>
>
> On 11/14/2012 04:50 PM, Ryan Rix wrote:
>
>> Maybe keep spamming the list like this and someone will send you another
>> game...
>>
>> I really need to re-institute my email killfile, but you really just
>> provide
>> too much popcorn, I cannot fathom losing such entertaining posts as these.
>>
>> r.
>>
>> On Fri 9 November 2012 10:17:29 Michael Havens wrote:
>>
>>> Well... back in 96 (before I ran linux) someone sent me a 'game'. I
>>> opened
>>> the 'game' and my computer locked up and had to be restored. That is
>>> actually what I wanted :) Also, I would never send it to a US based
>>>
>> scammer.
>>
>>>
>>> How do I discover where 'phx.gbl'. traceroute gets to 10 hops then gives
>>>
>> me:
>>
>>>
>>> * * *
>>>
>>> the last 'real' return I get is:
>>>
>>> 
>>> 10ge-ten1-2.mia-89p-cor-2.**peer1.net(216.187.124.129)
>>>   153.151 ms
>>>   153.577 ms
>>>154.080 ms
>>>
>>> :-)~MIKE~(-:
>>> On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 8:28 AM, Kevin Fries
>>>  wrote:
>>>
 Michael,

 You are thinking far too one dimensionally.  What you really need is the
 routing and account numbers for an account owned by Alcida.  Then let

>>> them
>>
>>> steal away.  Let the jerks explain how they illegally obtained this
 information to Homeland Security.   Ha ha ha ha

 I got your humor, guys ease up and stop taking thing so seriously.

 Kevin

 On Nov 9, 2012 5:54 AM, "Michael Havens"  wrote:

> could someone send me a virus that I could 'share' with all the thieves
> that try to scam me?
>
> :-)~MIKE~(-:
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Re: OT: Time for substantive change.

[Michael Havens]

I think seceding is a grand *idea* but then what about all the people who
depend on the government for sustenance (social security)?
:-)~MIKE~(-:


On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 10:49 PM, Joe Gibbs  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> This is OT topic by a lot.
>
> Please keep politics and religion off a tech blog, unless of course you
> want to be added to the ignore list and ALL your posts are tossed into the
> trash pile without being read.
>
> If I wanted to read about someone's personal politics I would go to one of
> the many sites on the internet for that special interest group. Please do
> the same.
>
> Joe Gibbs
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 4:10 PM,  wrote:
>
>>
>> The Declaration of Independence states: "Governments are instituted among
>> men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, that
>> whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is
>> the Right of the People to alter or abolish it, and institute new
>> Government."
>>
>> Over the past few days, petitions have been started in all 50 states to
>> secede from this now marxist-socialist "union."
>>
>> The rate at which signatures are being added to these petitions makes it
>> very clear that this is no joke.
>>
>> Click the link below to sign the petition:
>>
>> - - - http://wh.gov/9mNz - - -
>>
>>
>> Note: If you live in a state other than Arizona, google to find the active
>> petition in your state. A petition is under way in and for every state.
>> At this point, you only need to sign up with your first name, last
>> initial, and zip code.  It's quick and easy. Let your voice be heard.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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Re: OT:

[Michael Havens]

I was investigating things and:

Getting a WebGL Implementation


The WebGL 1.0 specification has recently been released, and the latest
builds of several browsers are close to reaching full conformance. Here are
instructions on how to obtain a copy of a browser supporting the WebGL
specification. As various implementations reach 100% conformance, expect
that browsers will have this functionality built in to their latest
releases, and not require any manual steps to enable it.
Maybe the version of chrome we have isn't compliant??
:-)~MIKE~(-:


On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 10:46 AM, Michael Havens  wrote:

> didn't work for me either.
> :-)~MIKE~(-:
>
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 2:06 AM, Michael Butash wrote:
>
>> Apparently not under linux.
>>
>> Unless it's nacl, which usually requires acts of voodoo to behave and I'd
>> assume typically do without than deal with.
>>
>> -mb
>>
>>
>>
>> On 11/14/2012 11:02 PM, Joe Gibbs wrote:
>>
>>> How about this for a OT  topic
>>>
>>> Everyone should go take a look at this and play around with it. 45 years
>>> ago I wanted to build something like this using small lights and lots of
>>> wire. Being able to see it on my 23" computer screen via the laptop is
>>> amazing and blows my mind.
>>>
>>>
>>> New Chrome experiment maps 100,000 stars in
>>> interactive visualization
>>> >> maps-10-stars-in-**interactive-visualization/
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>> *100,000 Stars* is an interactive visualization of the stellar
>>>
>>> neighborhood created for theGoogle Chrome
>>>  web browser. It shows the real location
>>>
>>> of over 100,000 nearby stars. Zooming in reveals 87 individually
>>> identified stars and our solar system. The galaxy view is an artist’s
>>> rendition.
>>>
>>> http://9to5google.com/2012/11/**14/new-chrome-experiment-maps-**
>>> 10-stars-in-interactive-**visualization/
>>>
>>>
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>>> plug-disc...@lists.plug.**phoenix.az.us
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>>> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.**us/mailman/listinfo/plug-**discuss
>>>
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Re: OT:

[Patricia Wilson]

Mine works.
Version 20.0.1132.47 Ubuntu 12.04 (144678)


On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 11:11 AM, Michael Havens  wrote:

> I was investigating things and:
>
> Getting a WebGL Implementation
> 
>
> The WebGL 1.0 specification has recently been released, and the latest
> builds of several browsers are close to reaching full conformance. Here are
> instructions on how to obtain a copy of a browser supporting the WebGL
> specification. As various implementations reach 100% conformance, expect
> that browsers will have this functionality built in to their latest
> releases, and not require any manual steps to enable it.
> Maybe the version of chrome we have isn't compliant??
> :-)~MIKE~(-:
>
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 10:46 AM, Michael Havens  wrote:
>
>> didn't work for me either.
>> :-)~MIKE~(-:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 2:06 AM, Michael Butash wrote:
>>
>>> Apparently not under linux.
>>>
>>> Unless it's nacl, which usually requires acts of voodoo to behave and
>>> I'd assume typically do without than deal with.
>>>
>>> -mb
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 11/14/2012 11:02 PM, Joe Gibbs wrote:
>>>
 How about this for a OT  topic

 Everyone should go take a look at this and play around with it. 45 years
 ago I wanted to build something like this using small lights and lots of
 wire. Being able to see it on my 23" computer screen via the laptop is
 amazing and blows my mind.


 New Chrome experiment maps 100,000 stars in
 interactive visualization
 
 >


 *100,000 Stars* is an interactive visualization of the stellar

 neighborhood created for theGoogle Chrome
  web browser. It shows the real location

 of over 100,000 nearby stars. Zooming in reveals 87 individually
 identified stars and our solar system. The galaxy view is an artist’s
 rendition.

 http://9to5google.com/2012/11/**14/new-chrome-experiment-maps-**
 10-stars-in-interactive-**visualization/


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>>
>>
>
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-- 

Patricia Wilson
Apache Junction, AZ
Member NRA, ARRL
WB8DXX (Extra)
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Re: OT:

[Michael Havens]

nope that wasn't the problem!
:-)~MIKE~(-:


On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 11:11 AM, Michael Havens  wrote:

> I was investigating things and:
>
> Getting a WebGL Implementation
> 
>
> The WebGL 1.0 specification has recently been released, and the latest
> builds of several browsers are close to reaching full conformance. Here are
> instructions on how to obtain a copy of a browser supporting the WebGL
> specification. As various implementations reach 100% conformance, expect
> that browsers will have this functionality built in to their latest
> releases, and not require any manual steps to enable it.
> Maybe the version of chrome we have isn't compliant??
> :-)~MIKE~(-:
>
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 10:46 AM, Michael Havens  wrote:
>
>> didn't work for me either.
>> :-)~MIKE~(-:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 2:06 AM, Michael Butash wrote:
>>
>>> Apparently not under linux.
>>>
>>> Unless it's nacl, which usually requires acts of voodoo to behave and
>>> I'd assume typically do without than deal with.
>>>
>>> -mb
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 11/14/2012 11:02 PM, Joe Gibbs wrote:
>>>
 How about this for a OT  topic

 Everyone should go take a look at this and play around with it. 45 years
 ago I wanted to build something like this using small lights and lots of
 wire. Being able to see it on my 23" computer screen via the laptop is
 amazing and blows my mind.


 New Chrome experiment maps 100,000 stars in
 interactive visualization
 
 >


 *100,000 Stars* is an interactive visualization of the stellar

 neighborhood created for theGoogle Chrome
  web browser. It shows the real location

 of over 100,000 nearby stars. Zooming in reveals 87 individually
 identified stars and our solar system. The galaxy view is an artist’s
 rendition.

 http://9to5google.com/2012/11/**14/new-chrome-experiment-maps-**
 10-stars-in-interactive-**visualization/


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>>
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Linux in China?

[mike enriquez]

Does anyone on the list know anything about the status of Linux in China?

I wonder if linux is big in China?

Thanks

Mike Enriquez

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Re: Linux in China?

[Michael Havens]

http://duckduckgo.com/?t=lm&q=linux+china
:-)~MIKE~(-:


On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 12:06 PM, mike enriquez  wrote:

>  Does anyone on the list know anything about the status of Linux in China?
>
> I wonder if linux is big in China?
>
> Thanks
>
> Mike Enriquez
>
> **
>
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Re: Linux in China?

[Ted Gould]

On Thu, 2012-11-15 at 12:06 -0700, mike enriquez wrote:
> Does anyone on the list know anything about the status of Linux in
> China?
>
> I wonder if linux is big in China?

http://blog.canonical.com/2011/10/27/retail-stores-in-china/

That was from last year.  Dell has stores in China that sell Ubuntu
directly, where you can't get a retail Dell machine in the US today that
has Ubuntu on it.[1]

The MS representatives believe that the reason Ubuntu is big in China is
because people are buying machines to pirate Windows.  Unfortunately
it's hard to prove that isn't the case (which is one of the reasons they
argue it).  So, in general, it's hard to say "how big" in this case, but
definitely from a visibility perspective it's much larger than in the
US.

--Ted

[1] Though that is hopefully changing:
http://content.dell.com/us/en/enterprise/d/campaigns/sputnik


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Re: Linux in China?

[Michael Havens]

http://edition.cnn.com/2003/TECH/biztech/11/05/china.linux.reut/
http://www.informationweek.com/microsoft-fights-piracy-in-china-linux-w/170700943
http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS4254330887.html

:-)~MIKE~(-:


On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 12:51 PM, Michael Havens  wrote:

> http://duckduckgo.com/?t=lm&q=linux+china
> :-)~MIKE~(-:
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 12:06 PM, mike enriquez  wrote:
>
>>  Does anyone on the list know anything about the status of Linux in China?
>>
>> I wonder if linux is big in China?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Mike Enriquez
>>
>> **
>>
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Re: Linux in China?

[Derek Trotter]

That's a good question.  From what I've heard software piracy there is 
illegal on the books, but in practice it's tolerated.  A few years ago I 
read something in the Register about the Chinese government trying to 
promote a version of linux that was supposed to be customized for China.


I wouldn't touch if even if I could read Chinese.  There's no telling 
how many security holes are in it and how many undocumented back doors 
are built in by design.


On 11/15/2012 12:06 PM, mike enriquez wrote:

Does anyone on the list know anything about the status of Linux in China?

I wonder if linux is big in China?

Thanks

Mike Enriquez




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Re: Linux in China?

[Derek Trotter]

It seems like someone in Redmond is grasping at straws.  WIndows boxes 
can copy M$ software, post it to usenet, download it from Usenet and 
burn it to disc.  It can also be shared using your favorite p2p software.


On 11/15/2012 12:45 PM, Ted Gould wrote:

On Thu, 2012-11-15 at 12:06 -0700, mike enriquez wrote:

Does anyone on the list know anything about the status of Linux in
China?

I wonder if linux is big in China?

http://blog.canonical.com/2011/10/27/retail-stores-in-china/

That was from last year.  Dell has stores in China that sell Ubuntu
directly, where you can't get a retail Dell machine in the US today that
has Ubuntu on it.[1]

The MS representatives believe that the reason Ubuntu is big in China is
because people are buying machines to pirate Windows.  Unfortunately
it's hard to prove that isn't the case (which is one of the reasons they
argue it).  So, in general, it's hard to say "how big" in this case, but
definitely from a visibility perspective it's much larger than in the
US.

--Ted

[1] Though that is hopefully changing:
http://content.dell.com/us/en/enterprise/d/campaigns/sputnik


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Re: OT: Time for substantive change.

[Robert Holtzman]

On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 04:10:17PM -0700, j...@actionline.com wrote:
> 
> The Declaration of Independence states: "Governments are instituted among
> men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, that
> whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is
> the Right of the People to alter or abolish it, and institute new
> Government."
> 
> Over the past few days, petitions have been started in all 50 states to
> secede from this now marxist-socialist "union."

IIRC we fought a hell of a bloody war over this around 150 or so yrs
ago. In the North it was called The Civil War. In the South it was
called The War of Northern Aggression. Either way, your side lost. 

   ..snip.

-- 
Bob Holtzman
If you think you're getting free lunch, 
check the price of the beer.
Key ID: 8D549279


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Re: virus

[Michael Butash]

Somewhat kidding, look it up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Back_Orifice_2000

-mb


On 11/15/2012 10:49 AM, Michael Havens wrote:

huh?
:-)~MIKE~(-:


On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 2:14 AM, Michael Butash mailto:mich...@butash.net>> wrote:

I think I have backorfice2k floating around in a zip file somewhere
still for nostalgia.  WinME might still be cool in nigeria, some
remote control for fun and profit.

-mb


On 11/14/2012 04:50 PM, Ryan Rix wrote:

Maybe keep spamming the list like this and someone will send you
another
game...

I really need to re-institute my email killfile, but you really
just provide
too much popcorn, I cannot fathom losing such entertaining posts
as these.

r.

On Fri 9 November 2012 10:17:29 Michael Havens wrote:

Well... back in 96 (before I ran linux) someone sent me a
'game'. I opened
the 'game' and my computer locked up and had to be restored.
That is
actually what I wanted :) Also, I would never send it to a
US based

scammer.


How do I discover where 'phx.gbl'. traceroute gets to 10
hops then gives

me:


 * * *

the last 'real' return I get is:

10ge-ten1-2.mia-89p-cor-2.__peer1.net

(216.187.124.129)  153.151 ms
   153.577 ms
154.080 ms

:-)~MIKE~(-:
On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 8:28 AM, Kevin
Friesmailto:ke...@fries-biro.com>>
  wrote:

Michael,

You are thinking far too one dimensionally.  What you
really need is the
routing and account numbers for an account owned by
Alcida.  Then let

them

steal away.  Let the jerks explain how they illegally
obtained this
information to Homeland Security.   Ha ha ha ha

I got your humor, guys ease up and stop taking thing so
seriously.

Kevin

On Nov 9, 2012 5:54 AM, "Michael
Havens"mailto:bmi...@gmail.com>>  wrote:

could someone send me a virus that I could 'share'
with all the thieves
that try to scam me?

:-)~MIKE~(-:
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Re: Linux in China?

[R P Herrold]

On Thu, 15 Nov 2012, Ted Gould wrote:


The MS representatives believe that the reason Ubuntu is big in China is
because people are buying machines to pirate Windows.  Unfortunately
it's hard to prove that isn't the case (which is one of the reasons they
argue it).  So, in general, it's hard to say "how big" in this case, but


There is nothing 'unfortunate' about it at all -- The MSFT 
representatives are parrotting a party line, and trying to 
frame a debate about intellectual property rights which China 
agreed to enforce as part of joining WIPO.  Open Source does 
not have a dog in that fight


Open Source does not control the actions of its purchasers or 
users, nor have an obligation to facilitate control schemes 
that others might want adopted.  Just the opposite -- see 
Stallman's Four Freedoms essays over time -- By and large, it 
seeks to provide software freedom of many forms


I don't recall Microsoft _asking_ the FSF about the new UEFI 
bootloaders which vastly complicate the rights of owners of 
hardware wanting to use Open Source before functionally 
mandating it to the large manufacturers.  They just rammed it 
through with market power


-- Russ herrold
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Re: OT: Time for substantive change.

[Eric Cope]

May I point out that winning a war doesn't make you right... nor does it
make the opposition any more compliant in the long term...

If at first you don't secede, try and try again. :)


On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 1:31 PM, Robert Holtzman  wrote:

> On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 04:10:17PM -0700, j...@actionline.com wrote:
> >
> > The Declaration of Independence states: "Governments are instituted among
> > men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, that
> > whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is
> > the Right of the People to alter or abolish it, and institute new
> > Government."
> >
> > Over the past few days, petitions have been started in all 50 states to
> > secede from this now marxist-socialist "union."
>
> IIRC we fought a hell of a bloody war over this around 150 or so yrs
> ago. In the North it was called The Civil War. In the South it was
> called The War of Northern Aggression. Either way, your side lost.
>
>..snip.
>
> --
> Bob Holtzman
> If you think you're getting free lunch,
> check the price of the beer.
> Key ID: 8D549279
>
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux)
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Re: OT: Time for substantive change.

[keith smith]

What is different is all 50 states want to go their separate way.  Who will 
fight against it?  The President, his cabinet, the House, Senate, and the 
Supremes? 

This is different.  This is all the states against the federal government.  The 
federal government gets it's power from the people.  If the people withdraw, 
then there is not federal government.

The states created the federal government.  If all 50 states walk there is not 
federal government to fight to keep the 50 states together.  

Very different.



Keith Smith

--- On Thu, 11/15/12, Robert Holtzman  wrote:

From: Robert Holtzman 
Subject: Re: OT: Time for substantive change.
To: plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
Date: Thursday, November 15, 2012, 1:31 PM

On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 04:10:17PM -0700, j...@actionline.com wrote:
> 
> The Declaration of Independence states: "Governments are instituted among
> men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, that
> whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is
> the Right of the People to alter or abolish it, and institute new
> Government."
> 
> Over the past few days, petitions have been started in all 50 states to
> secede from this now marxist-socialist "union."

IIRC we fought a hell of a bloody war over this around 150 or so yrs
ago. In the North it was called The Civil War. In the South it was
called The War of Northern Aggression. Either way, your side lost. 

           ..snip.

-- 
Bob Holtzman
If you think you're getting free lunch, 
check the price of the beer.
Key ID: 8D549279

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Re: OT: Time for substantive change.

[Tom Haws]

>
> What is different is all 50 states want to go their separate way.


Is this true?  Cool!
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Re: OT: Time for substantive change.

[Eric Cope]

Something to consider is that while there are groups of people in each
state that want to secede, not EVERYONE in the state wants to secede. The
question is what constitutes critical mass to trigger the change. The
colonists only had support from about 20% of the population. How much does
each state need?

Eric


On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 2:32 PM, Tom Haws  wrote:

>  What is different is all 50 states want to go their separate way.
>
>
> Is this true?  Cool!
>
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Re: OT: Time for substantive change.

[Michael Havens]

I think that people that don't like the way the country is going should
move to texas and then only teas seceed. There already is a provision in
their founding documents that they could separate into 3 states.
:-)~MIKE~(-:


On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 3:04 PM, Eric Cope  wrote:

> Something to consider is that while there are groups of people in each
> state that want to secede, not EVERYONE in the state wants to secede. The
> question is what constitutes critical mass to trigger the change. The
> colonists only had support from about 20% of the population. How much does
> each state need?
>
> Eric
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 2:32 PM, Tom Haws  wrote:
>
>>  What is different is all 50 states want to go their separate way.
>>
>>
>> Is this true?  Cool!
>>
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Re: Linux in China?

[Michael Havens]

http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news/article.php/3676641/Linux+Still+a+Hit+in+China.htm
:-)~MIKE~(-:


On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 1:59 PM, R P Herrold  wrote:

> On Thu, 15 Nov 2012, Ted Gould wrote:
>
>  The MS representatives believe that the reason Ubuntu is big in China is
>> because people are buying machines to pirate Windows.  Unfortunately
>> it's hard to prove that isn't the case (which is one of the reasons they
>> argue it).  So, in general, it's hard to say "how big" in this case, but
>>
>
> There is nothing 'unfortunate' about it at all -- The MSFT representatives
> are parrotting a party line, and trying to frame a debate about
> intellectual property rights which China agreed to enforce as part of
> joining WIPO.  Open Source does not have a dog in that fight
>
> Open Source does not control the actions of its purchasers or users, nor
> have an obligation to facilitate control schemes that others might want
> adopted.  Just the opposite -- see Stallman's Four Freedoms essays over
> time -- By and large, it seeks to provide software freedom of many forms
>
> I don't recall Microsoft _asking_ the FSF about the new UEFI bootloaders
> which vastly complicate the rights of owners of hardware wanting to use
> Open Source before functionally mandating it to the large manufacturers.
>  They just rammed it through with market power
>
> -- Russ herrold
>
> --**-
> PLUG-discuss mailing list - 
> plug-disc...@lists.plug.**phoenix.az.us
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
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Re: OT: Time for substantive change.

[Joe Gibbs]

I call that statement bull crap.

Just because someone created a petition does not mean that all/most of the
residents want to give up.

Personally for a joke I could create a petition for those states that I
don't like and then watch the fear-mongers start clicking yes.



On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 2:24 PM, keith smith  wrote:

>
>
> What is different is all 50 states want to go their separate way.  Who
> will fight against it?  The President, his cabinet, the House, Senate, and
> the Supremes?
>
> This is different.  This is all the states against the federal
> government.  The federal government gets it's power from the people.  If
> the people withdraw, then there is not federal government.
>
> The states created the federal government.  If all 50 states walk there is
> not federal government to fight to keep the 50 states together.
>
> Very different.
>
> 
> Keith Smith
>
> --- On *Thu, 11/15/12, Robert Holtzman * wrote:
>
>
> From: Robert Holtzman 
> Subject: Re: OT: Time for substantive change.
> To: plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
> Date: Thursday, November 15, 2012, 1:31 PM
>
> On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 04:10:17PM -0700, 
> j...@actionline.comwrote:
> >
> > The Declaration of Independence states: "Governments are instituted among
> > men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, that
> > whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is
> > the Right of the People to alter or abolish it, and institute new
> > Government."
> >
> > Over the past few days, petitions have been started in all 50 states to
> > secede from this now marxist-socialist "union."
>
> IIRC we fought a hell of a bloody war over this around 150 or so yrs
> ago. In the North it was called The Civil War. In the South it was
> called The War of Northern Aggression. Either way, your side lost.
>
>..snip.
>
> --
> Bob Holtzman
> If you think you're getting free lunch,
> check the price of the beer.
> Key ID: 8D549279
>
> -Inline Attachment Follows-
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Re: Linux in China?

[Lisa Kachold]

There are a few problems with trying to get accurate Linux numbers:

1. Many Linux users dual-boot with Windows, so do they count as 1/2 a Linux
user? Or do they get counted twice (once for Linux, once for Windows)?

2. Linux doesn't have any sales figures for home users (and even for many
servers), unlike Mac OS X and Windows.

3. Many Linux users choose to mask or hide their online identities, either
for anonymity or to get proper functionality from certain Internet
Explorer-only websites.

4. Many Linux users have multiple computers (so does each computer owned
count as a Linux user or is that one person a Linux user?).

Perhaps we should create a massive [Chinese] spam campaign that installs a
bot-net to infect with http://sourceforge.net/projects/statix/ and track
Linux desktops?

Our concept of the culture of China and "linux use" is based entirely upon
our American consideration that every family (and individual) has a
"personal computer".  In China, it's more common for only a small
percentage of the upper middle class families to have ONE  "personal
phone", smartphone or tablet.

Computer *ownership* is now at about 4-5% of the worlds population. However
with many social projects putting computers in villages in developing
countries between 12-14% of the worlds population have access to a
computer. Approx 3-5 % of the worlds population have internet access.   To
put this into context only about 25% of the worlds population sleep in
their own bed at night and only about 30% of the worlds population are rich
enough to have a bank account!

 China's "Internet population" is touted to be 415.6 million. This figure
includes people who access the Web through Internet cafes or public
computers and smartphones.

Scientific and development based internet use (therefore much of Linux) is
strictly controlled in China.

W3Counter http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php has linux use as 1.8 %,
of course that's not China.




On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 12:06 PM, mike enriquez  wrote:

>  Does anyone on the list know anything about the status of Linux in China?
>
> I wonder if linux is big in China?
>
> Thanks
>
> Mike Enriquez
>
> **
>
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-- 


(503) 754-4452 Android
(623) 239-3392 Skype
(623) 688-3392 Google Voice
**
it-clowns.com
Chief Clown
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Re: Linux in China?

[Ted Gould]

On Thu, 2012-11-15 at 15:59 -0500, R P Herrold wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Nov 2012, Ted Gould wrote:
> > The MS representatives believe that the reason Ubuntu is big in China is
> > because people are buying machines to pirate Windows.  Unfortunately
> > it's hard to prove that isn't the case (which is one of the reasons they
> > argue it).  So, in general, it's hard to say "how big" in this case, but
> 
> There is nothing 'unfortunate' about it at all -- The MSFT 
> representatives are parrotting a party line, and trying to 
> frame a debate about intellectual property rights which China 
> agreed to enforce as part of joining WIPO.  Open Source does 
> not have a dog in that fight

No, they're trying to discredit Ubuntu adoption in China by saying it
doesn't exist.  This makes it hard to go to people like ISVs and argue
there's a market for their software if they port it.  That, in turn,
reduces the number of people that can use Ubuntu because it doesn't
support the software that they need.  So, it is unfortunate, but yes I
don't think there is a reasonable way to count the number of users of
truly free software.

--Ted



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Re: OT: Time for substantive change.

[keith smith]

What if we turn that on it head - 180 degrees out and say anyone who does not 
what to follow the Constitution should find a place where they fit in.  It's 
about the Constitution and nothing else.

If someone wants to be a socialist why not move to a socialist country? 



Keith Smith

--- On Thu, 11/15/12, Michael Havens  wrote:

From: Michael Havens 
Subject: Re: OT: Time for substantive change.
To: "Main PLUG discussion list" 
Date: Thursday, November 15, 2012, 3:09 PM

I think that people that don't like the way the country is going should move to 
texas and then only teas seceed. There already is a provision in their founding 
documents that they could separate into 3 states.


:-)~MIKE~(-:



On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 3:04 PM, Eric Cope  wrote:


Something to consider is that while there are groups of people in each state 
that want to secede, not EVERYONE in the state wants to secede. The question is 
what constitutes critical mass to trigger the change. The colonists only had 
support from about 20% of the population. How much does each state need?




Eric

On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 2:32 PM, Tom Haws  wrote:









What is different is all 50 states want to go their separate way.
Is this true?  Cool!


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Re: OT: Time for substantive change.

[keith smith]

Ok,  maybe I was not completely clear.  To stay on point, my statement was not 
about whether it was valid or about who was doing what.  

My point was IF all 50 states decided to secede then who will stop them and I 
was drawing a contrast between the Civil War and what potentially is going on 
today.

The Civil War was possible because there were states who seceded and there were 
states that stood with the Federal Government.  This is a much different 
situation.  IF and I say IF all 50 stated really decided to secede who can stop 
them?  That was my point.

I agree most people, to include myself, do not want to secede, however you must 
read between the lines.  This is a warning to the Federal Government to get 
inline with the Constitution or further action will be taken. 




Keith Smith

--- On Thu, 11/15/12, Joe Gibbs  wrote:

From: Joe Gibbs 
Subject: Re: OT: Time for substantive change.
To: "Main PLUG discussion list" 
Date: Thursday, November 15, 2012, 3:21 PM

I call that statement bull crap.
Just because someone created a petition does not mean that all/most of the 
residents want to give up. 
Personally for a joke I could create a petition for those states that I don't 
like and then watch the fear-mongers start clicking yes.
 

On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 2:24 PM, keith smith  wrote:



What is different is all 50 states want to go their separate way.  Who will 
fight against it?  The President, his cabinet, the House, Senate, and the 
Supremes? 


This is different.  This is all the states against the federal government.  The 
federal government gets it's power from the people.  If the people withdraw, 
then there is not federal government.

The states created the federal government.  If all 50 states walk there is not 
federal government to fight to keep the 50 states together.  


Very different.



Keith Smith

--- On Thu, 11/15/12, Robert Holtzman  wrote:


From: Robert Holtzman 
Subject: Re: OT: Time for substantive change.
To: plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us

Date: Thursday, November 15, 2012, 1:31 PM

On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 04:10:17PM -0700, j...@actionline.com wrote:
> 
> The Declaration of Independence states: "Governments are instituted among

> men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, that
> whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is
> the Right of the People to alter or abolish it, and institute new

> Government."
> 
> Over the past few days,
 petitions have been started in all 50 states to
> secede from this now marxist-socialist "union."

IIRC we fought a hell of a bloody war over this around 150 or so yrs
ago. In the North it was called The Civil War. In the South it was

called The War of Northern Aggression. Either way, your side lost. 

           ..snip.

-- 
Bob Holtzman
If you think you're getting free lunch, 

check the price of the beer.
Key ID: 8D549279

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Re: OT: Time for substantive change.

[JD Austin]

I'll second that. :)  Take away my motivation/reward to do more than I need
to and guess what... I'll stop.   Health care is expensive mostly because
of governmental regulations/bureaucracy.  If I created a medical device
that would magically cure cancer guess what my odds would be of getting it
in the hands of a Doctor legally?  Almost zero unless I had enough money to
grease the way.  If they wanted to make healthcare affordable they'd band
all of the governmental agencies in the world that act as gatekeepers into
one partnership and once a drug/device is in it's in for everywhere *and
vice versa.*
Our federal government somehow took the power that was supposed to reside
in the states and the people using the commerce clause (and because they
got away with it enough to make it 'normal').  They take money from one
state and give it to another with strings attached to maintain their
power... then of course if you look at our money itself it's not based on
anything tangible and the Federal Govt can have the Federal reserve print
money whenever they need more.  I'd rather pay ALL of my taxes to AZ and
let AZ decide how much it can give to the Federal Govt. Not that it'll ever
happen.

On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 4:08 PM, keith smith  wrote:

>
> What if we turn that on it head - 180 degrees out and say anyone who does
> not what to follow the Constitution should find a place where they fit in.
> It's about the Constitution and nothing else.
>
> If someone wants to be a socialist why not move to a socialist country?
>
> 
> Keith Smith
>
>
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HOLI-DISTRO Disco Party - Save the Date! 12.04.12

[Lisa Kachold]

Well, I sure miss FreeGeek (and other Linux/OpenSource events) in Oregon!

This one is only 22 hours away Anyone?

-- Forwarded message --
From: Misty Fall 
Date: Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 4:58 PM
Subject: [freegeek-social] HOLI-DISTRO Disco Party - Save the Date! 12.04.12
To: soc...@freegeek.org, regul...@freegeek.org
Cc: paidwork...@freegeek.org


Hello Free Geek regulars!

Please join us Tuesday 12.04.12 from 6pm to 9pm at Free Geek to celebrate
the Winter holiday as well as Free Geek's release of Xubuntu 12.04!

We will have a fabulous taco bar and encourage you to bring side dishes or
desserts to compliment.

There will be a White Elephant Gift Exchange--for those that don't know a
White Elephant Gift is something silly, re-gifted, or ironic that you
already have wrapped up for a fun exchange, only folks who bring will
participate.

DISCO rhymes with DISTRO and well were gonna dress up in 70's gear and
play that funky music, so come ready to groove!

There will likely be Distro related games and of course all around fun.

This is a big thanks for all your hard work Volunteers!

There will be more details to come, please save the date and join us!

Thanks!
Misty the elf

___
Social chatter by people at and interested in Free Geek mailing list
http://lists.freegeek.org/mailman/listinfo/social



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Re: Linux in China?

[Derek Trotter]

On 11/15/2012 03:46 PM, Lisa Kachold wrote:


Perhaps we should create a massive [Chinese] spam campaign that 
installs a bot-net to infect with 
http://sourceforge.net/projects/statix/ and track Linux desktops?


It shouldn't be hard for anyone interested in the project to write the 
spam.  Come up with some idea of what you want to say and run it through 
Google translate.  Judging by the English skills of the people who write 
the spam I get, that's what they're doing.

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linux malware

[Derek Trotter]

On 11/15/2012 03:46 PM, Lisa Kachold wrote:


Perhaps we should create a massive [Chinese] spam campaign that 
installs a bot-net to infect with 
http://sourceforge.net/projects/statix/ and track Linux desktops?


I've read of a few examples of malware written for MacOS.  Is there any 
malware out there that targets linux boxes?   If so, what kind of a 
threat is it to people who run linux at home?


Thanks
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Re: HOLI-DISTRO Disco Party - Save the Date! 12.04.12

[Stephen]

22 hours or days?
On Nov 15, 2012 5:03 PM, "Lisa Kachold"  wrote:

> Well, I sure miss FreeGeek (and other Linux/OpenSource events) in Oregon!
>
> This one is only 22 hours away Anyone?
>
> -- Forwarded message --
> From: Misty Fall 
> Date: Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 4:58 PM
> Subject: [freegeek-social] HOLI-DISTRO Disco Party - Save the Date!
> 12.04.12
> To: soc...@freegeek.org, regul...@freegeek.org
> Cc: paidwork...@freegeek.org
>
>
> Hello Free Geek regulars!
>
> Please join us Tuesday 12.04.12 from 6pm to 9pm at Free Geek to celebrate
> the Winter holiday as well as Free Geek's release of Xubuntu 12.04!
>
> We will have a fabulous taco bar and encourage you to bring side dishes or
> desserts to compliment.
>
> There will be a White Elephant Gift Exchange--for those that don't know a
> White Elephant Gift is something silly, re-gifted, or ironic that you
> already have wrapped up for a fun exchange, only folks who bring will
> participate.
>
> DISCO rhymes with DISTRO and well were gonna dress up in 70's gear and
> play that funky music, so come ready to groove!
>
> There will likely be Distro related games and of course all around fun.
>
> This is a big thanks for all your hard work Volunteers!
>
> There will be more details to come, please save the date and join us!
>
> Thanks!
> Misty the elf
>
> ___
> Social chatter by people at and interested in Free Geek mailing list
> http://lists.freegeek.org/mailman/listinfo/social
>
>
>
> --
>
>
> (503) 754-4452 Android
> (623) 239-3392 Skype
> (623) 688-3392 Google Voice
> **
> it-clowns.com
> Chief Clown
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: linux malware

[Lisa Kachold]

Hi Derek,

On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 5:39 PM, Derek Trotter wrote:

> On 11/15/2012 03:46 PM, Lisa Kachold wrote:
>
>>
>> Perhaps we should create a massive [Chinese] spam campaign that installs
>> a bot-net to infect with 
>> http://sourceforge.net/**projects/statix/and
>>  track Linux desktops?
>>
>
> I've read of a few examples of malware written for MacOS.  Is there any
> malware out there that targets linux boxes?   If so, what kind of a threat
> is it to people who run linux at home?
>
> Thanks
>

Yes,

Malware exists that targets linux indirectly (as in browser and Adobe
based) and directly.

Check out the online registry:  http://www.team-cymru.org/Services/MHR/


Detection: http://www.rfxn.com/projects/linux-malware-detect/



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Re: linux malware

[Lisa Kachold]

Using antivirus software is recommended, however many desktop users will be
surprised to learn that they are actually part of a botnet transmitting
virus or other information.  A good check would include all packet traffic
out from the desktop, and a quick look at "lsof":

http://www.linuxthebest.com/2012/01/04/best-linux-antivirus-softwares-for-linux-users/

On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 6:59 PM, Michael Havens  wrote:

> so should we all be worried about it, Lisa?
> :-)~MIKE~(-:
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 6:33 PM, Lisa Kachold wrote:
>
>> Hi Derek,
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 5:39 PM, Derek Trotter 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 11/15/2012 03:46 PM, Lisa Kachold wrote:
>>>

 Perhaps we should create a massive [Chinese] spam campaign that
 installs a bot-net to infect with http://sourceforge.net/**
 projects/statix/  and track
 Linux desktops?

>>>
>>> I've read of a few examples of malware written for MacOS.  Is there any
>>> malware out there that targets linux boxes?   If so, what kind of a threat
>>> is it to people who run linux at home?
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>
>> Yes,
>>
>> Malware exists that targets linux indirectly (as in browser and Adobe
>> based) and directly.
>>
>> Check out the online registry:  http://www.team-cymru.org/Services/MHR/
>>
>>
>> Detection: http://www.rfxn.com/projects/linux-malware-detect/
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>> (503) 754-4452 Android
>> (623) 239-3392 Skype
>> (623) 688-3392 Google Voice
>> **
>> it-clowns.com
>> Chief Clown
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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