Re: What laptop to get to replace my 15" macbook?

[Stephen]

I worked fro a company and we had to do this, bought shells cards and
other parts and assembled them.

If you have spent any time building computers its really easy just
need to pay attention to detail because of the compact nature of the
unit.

I know ASUS has a nice shell to build in, takes a mini PCIe x16 gpu LT
drive and Reg 775 core 2 duo

and there are a few others you can buy as a "barebone" kit and they arent bad.

On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 4:23 PM, mike Enriquez wrote:
> I don't if anyone has mentioned it but try building your own laptop. The
> first time you build one it takes about 3 hours. Build it the way you
> want it! The benefit is that you will always know what is inside of it
> and you can always fix it yourself if something goes wrong.
> There are only 5 major manufacturers  of laptop in the world. If you
> order 10 million units they will even put your name on them. Intel went
> after them to agree to standardize their laptops so that Intel dealers
> could build them and replace the parts easily. Intel calls them White
> Box laptops. Find an Intel dealer and ask them about it. I built my own
> and I am very happy with it.
> The laptop comes to you in parts with a video that shows you how to put
> it together.
> Look into it and build the laptop you really want.
> Good luck.
> Mike Enriquez



-- 
A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you from
rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button.

Stephen
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Re: What laptop to get to replace my 15" macbook?

[Josef Lowder]

Great idea and suggestion, Mike.

I've built several towers, but never thought of trying to build my
own laptop.  Have you yourself done this?

I'm not sure where to look to find a source for a kit, but I'll
google for it to see what comes up.

Recently, I've even been thinking of getting one with a lower
powered processor (i.e. core 2 solo) as those reportedly have
longer battery life and since I don't care about games, I think
most laptops today are way over-powered for what I need.
And for my needs, I really do not need more than 80-100 Gig HD.

Also, I've have wondered if it might make more sense to have
an external DVD-drive to keep the laptop itself light for travel.

I'd really be interested in your thoughts and other plug
members' thoughts about these things.

Mike Enriquez wrote:
> I don't if anyone has mentioned it but try building your own laptop.
> The first time you build one it takes about 3 hours. Build it the way
> you want it! The benefit is that you will always know what is inside
> of it and you can always fix it yourself if something goes wrong.
> There are only 5 major manufacturers of laptop in the world. If you
> order 10 million units they will even put your name on them. Intel went
> after them to agree to standardize their laptops so that Intel dealers
> could build them and replace the parts easily. Intel calls them White
> Box laptops. Find an Intel dealer and ask them about it. I built my own
> and I am very happy with it.
> The laptop comes to you in parts with a video that shows you how
> to put it together.
> Look into it and build the laptop you really want.
> Good luck.
> Mike Enriquez
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Re: What laptop to get to replace my 15" macbook?

[mike Enriquez]

I don't if anyone has mentioned it but try building your own laptop. The 
first time you build one it takes about 3 hours. Build it the way you 
want it! The benefit is that you will always know what is inside of it 
and you can always fix it yourself if something goes wrong.
There are only 5 major manufacturers  of laptop in the world. If you 
order 10 million units they will even put your name on them. Intel went 
after them to agree to standardize their laptops so that Intel dealers 
could build them and replace the parts easily. Intel calls them White 
Box laptops. Find an Intel dealer and ask them about it. I built my own 
and I am very happy with it.
The laptop comes to you in parts with a video that shows you how to put 
it together.
Look into it and build the laptop you really want.
Good luck.
Mike Enriquez






Dazed_75 wrote:
> Nice to know nothing has changed WRT using a Mac since my company 
> forced me to use one back when the 1st Macintosh was getting popular.  :)
>
> On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 2:24 PM, Josef Lowder  > wrote:
>
> Based on the very positive and enthusiastic comments from so many
> people (including several of my good plug friends), I recently
> purchased a 15" Macbook, thinking that it might be "the way to go."
>
> While the Mac is a very appealing product in many ways with many
> outstanding features, I have finally come to the conclusion that the
> disadvantages (to me) far outweigh the positives.  So I am now
> thinking of selling it and looking for something more sensible in the
> real world.  Therefore, once again, I am seeking input from the
> collective wisdom of this esteemed group.
>
> The simple, but (to me) major drawbacks of the Mac (not to mention
> their proprietary impositions that seem to be even worse than M$), are
> as follows:
>
> 1. The keyboard layout that forces that screwy Mac/Apple X key on
> users in lieu of simply using the CTRL key ... and then positioning
> that weird mac key in such a terribly awkward place.
>
> 2. Putting the "FN" key where the "CTRL" key should be (and is on
> every other computer keyboard) is really stupid.  Bottom-farthest left
> is the *only* place (from an anatomically logical standpoint) where
> the CTRL key should be (imho).
>
> 3. Failure to totally eliminate the "caps-lock" key (of course I guess
> all keyboard mfrs still remain guilty of this ridiculous failing, at
> this point).  However, I seem to accidentally hit it more on the mac
> than on my other keyboards ... I guess because on the mac it seems to
> be slightly oversized.  Why?  Duh!
>
> 4. The absolutely ridiculous limitation of being forced to the bottom
> right corner of every window as the *only* way to resize windows.
> That might be the most stupid of all Mac contrary-to-all-common-sense
> "features."  And apparently no way that I can find to "maximize" a
> window.
>
> 5. The needlessly glitzy but cumbersome "dock."
>
> 6. The lack of a simple text editor ... one that doesn't force the use
> of html or rtf.
>
> 7. Most of the *nix command-line commands and utilities that I am used
> to using do not seem to work on Mac OS-X
>
> 8. While I like the slot drive rather than a DVD drive that slides
> open, I do (not) like having it on the front. Has that changed on
> newer models?
>
> 9. And as for being "intuitive" ... I've tried for a week to get the
> hang of using a Mac and almost everything that I am used to doing on
> my "normal" computers, I find almost impossible to figure out on a
> mac.  The 529-page "How to do everything Mac" doesn't ... and if mac
> is so "intuitive" why should it need a 529-page book to explain how to
> use it?
>
> In any case, I am now looking for a new (or used) laptop to replace
> this mac and get back to the real world.
>
> One that intrigues me is a new, single-core, lower-powered Asus that
> claims to have 8+ hours of battery life.  It is also the only one I
> have seen so far that has lighted keys (the letters light up on the
> keys like the mac -- one of mac's truly great features).  That seems
> to me to be a very desirable feature.  Only problem is that that
> feature seems to be available only in a larger format Asus unit with a
> number keypad (that I do not want).
>
> So what do y'all recommend?
>
> I like the slot drive (on the right side), built-in camera, lighted
> keys, lightest and thinnest possible, a "normal" keyboard (no 10-
> pad), at least a 15" screen, preferrably matte not glossy, and long
> battery life. I want to install Linux as the base OS and use whatever
> virtual ware will allow me to install win98 (I do *not* want the
> all-intrusive, pop-up crazy winXP).
>
> PS: Anyone interested in trading for or buying a 15" macbook with
> 4-gig of r

Re: What laptop to get to replace my 15" macbook?

[Ryan Rix]

Nadim Hoque wrote:
> For the laptop in question just make sure it uses a atheros or intel 
> wifi card in it. To find out in the store, ask someone who really knows 
> the hardware and sometimes it will say on the bottom. The centrino 
> laptops do contain the intel wifi, but make sure that it is not 
> extremely new because I don't know if those will work like their new N 
> card that supposedly runs faster than other N cards. As someone else who 
> mentioned, just bring a live distro and try all of them out.
> 

Realtek rtl8180 and rtl8185 chips work flawlessly on GNU/Linux and the 
latest kernels are already patched for your aircrack-ng funtimes. :)

> Sorry to hear that you do not like your mac. Me, I love the thing since 
> I had gotten it. It's just as stable as linux to me and I never was 
> forced to do a os wipe and definitely better than windows. I do 
> understand why someone might not like macs because everything is not for 
> everybody. Which macbook pro did you wind up getting and how much are 
> you selling it for.

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Re: What laptop to get to replace my 15" macbook?

[Josef Lowder]

I give up.  It's posted to sell on Craigslist.

After looking into what is involved in trying to install Linux on a mac,
I can't waste any more time on this.

http://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/sys/1333467379.html

Thanks again to all you wonderful plug friends.
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Re: What laptop to get to replace my 15" macbook?

[Josef Lowder]

Thanks to all who responded.  I guess I'll try to do a Linux install
on the mac before I just give up and replace it.

== Austin Godber wrote: Have you considered installing Linux on your
MacBook? It seems that both the latest Fedora and Ubuntu work with
little fuss on the MacBooks.

Thanks Austin.  I had considered this, and now that I have little
interest in trying to salvage os-x, I will give that a go with a
straight Linux install.  I have now found quite a few others who have
successfully installed PCLinuxOS (my favorite Linux distro) on
Macbooks.  So, if I can remap the keyboard to put the control key
where it should be and eliminate the stupid, poorly placed mac "X" key
and disable the caps-lock key, perhaps I can still salvage using the
nice mac hardware.

== Eric Cope wrote: I am blown away you had such difficulty using a
Mac. I used to hate Macs. I bought one because I was sick of Windows.
Its been fantastic. Sorry you had such a bad experience, although it
seems your complaints are more cosmetic than anything else. How much
are you selling your macbook for? Which one is it?

My complaints are definitely *not* merely "cosmetic."  I've always
avoided Windows (except to run Pagemaker and Paint Shop Pro via
win4lin as a task on my Linux systems), so my experience has almost
exclusively been with *nix ... Xenix > Unix > Linux.  My frustration
with mac is that it strikes me as being a brain-dead quadraplegic or
amputee version of *nix.  (Further research has indicated that this is
a common perception among *nix oriented folks.).  Mac may be fine for
music and movies, and playing, etc., but it is definitely not good for
serious work (imho).  The macbook I bought is a 15" and if I can't get
it to work satisfactorily with a straight Linux install (and remapping
the stupid key misplacements), I'll probably sell it for $995 obo.

== Bob Elzer wrote: How much did you spend on the Macbook, and how
much do you want to spend on a new laptop? What are your preferences,
what does it have to have, or not have, and what do you want to do
with it?

The positive things about the mac that are now part of my
"preferences" are, of course, it must have a working wireless, at
least a 15" display (I hope a matte screen, not glossy), a
slot-loading CD/DVD drive, illuminated keys (not for "cosmetics," but
to see the keys in a dark airplane, etc).  I prefer just a basic
qwerty keyboard with no 10-key pad.  A built-in camera is nice and now
standard on most newer laptops.  I am very intrigued with the new ASUS
"instant-on" feature that boots Linux from flash memory in 8-10
seconds -- something bloat-ware M$/mac will probably never be able to
do.  I am also interested in the long battery life (8+ hours) that is
now possible with single-core processors as Linux does not need all
the horsepower that bloatware needs. I need to be able to add win98
(not xp) as a task via some virtual-ware.
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Re: What laptop to get to replace my 15" macbook?

[Matt Graham]

From: Nadim Hoque 
> Josef Lowder wrote:
>> 3. Failure to totally eliminate the "caps-lock" key

WHAT DO YOU MEAN IM SHOUTHING???!!1!  No, lots of people like to
type in all caps, so they retain this.  Like the QWERTY keyboard
itself, it's a Panda's Thumb of technology.

>> 4. The absolutely ridiculous limitation of being forced to the
>> bottom right corner of every window as the *only* way to resize

Interface fascism has been part of Apple since the early days.  I
wonder why the file manager doesn't have an "up one directory"
button like all the other file managers.

>> 6. The lack of a simple text editor ... one that doesn't force
>> the use of html or rtf.

What, /usr/bin/vim ain't good enough for you?  Heretic!  emacs
user!  BURN HIM!  :-)

>> 7. Most of the *nix command-line commands and utilities that I
>> am used to using do not seem to work on Mac OS-X

Almost all of them are there, but they're *BSD instead of GNU, so
they have fewer options and in some cases different options.  This
is a bit annoying.

> I do understand why someone might not like macs because everything
> is not for everybody.

Aye.  I sort of have to have one at ork (testing stuff, 2 proprietary
apps corporate requires because they've drunk the Flavor-Ade) so I've
had to learn to use it.  Fortunately, I have a large number of Linux
boxes to work on as well.  

-- 
Matt G / Dances With Crows
The Crow202 Blog:  http://crow202.org/wordpress/
There is no Darkness in Eternity/But only Light too dim for us to see


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Re: What laptop to get to replace my 15" macbook?

[Eric Shubert]

I was wondering how long it'd be before someone asked this.
I might know of an interested party (not myself mind you).

Eric Cope wrote:
> how much are you selling your macbook for? Which one is it?
> 
> On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 8:58 AM, Bob Elzer  <mailto:bob.el...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
> How much did you spend on the Macbook, and how much do you want to
> spend on
> a new laptop ?
> 
> What are your preferences, what does it have to have, or not have,
> and what
> do you want to do with it ?
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
> <mailto:plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us>
> [mailto:plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
> <mailto:plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us>] On Behalf Of
> Josef
> Lowder
> Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 2:25 PM
> To: plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
>     <mailto:plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us>
> Subject: What laptop to get to replace my 15" macbook?
> 
> Based on the very positive and enthusiastic comments from so many people
> (including several of my good plug friends), I recently purchased a 15"
> Macbook, thinking that it might be "the way to go."
> 
> While the Mac is a very appealing product in many ways with many
> outstanding
> features, I have finally come to the conclusion that the
> disadvantages (to
> me) far outweigh the positives.  So I am now thinking of selling it and
> looking for something more sensible in the real world.  Therefore, once
> again, I am seeking input from the collective wisdom of this
> esteemed group.
> 
> The simple, but (to me) major drawbacks of the Mac (not to mention their
> proprietary impositions that seem to be even worse than M$), are as
> follows:
> 
> 1. The keyboard layout that forces that screwy Mac/Apple X key on
> users in
> lieu of simply using the CTRL key ... and then positioning that
> weird mac
> key in such a terribly awkward place.
> 
> 2. Putting the "FN" key where the "CTRL" key should be (and is on every
> other computer keyboard) is really stupid.  Bottom-farthest left is the
> *only* place (from an anatomically logical standpoint) where the
> CTRL key
> should be (imho).
> 
> 3. Failure to totally eliminate the "caps-lock" key (of course I
> guess all
> keyboard mfrs still remain guilty of this ridiculous failing, at this
> point).  However, I seem to accidentally hit it more on the mac than
> on my
> other keyboards ... I guess because on the mac it seems to be slightly
> oversized.  Why?  Duh!
> 
> 4. The absolutely ridiculous limitation of being forced to the
> bottom right
> corner of every window as the *only* way to resize windows.
> That might be the most stupid of all Mac contrary-to-all-common-sense
> "features."  And apparently no way that I can find to "maximize" a
> window.
> 
> 5. The needlessly glitzy but cumbersome "dock."
> 
> 6. The lack of a simple text editor ... one that doesn't force the
> use of
> html or rtf.
> 
> 7. Most of the *nix command-line commands and utilities that I am
> used to
> using do not seem to work on Mac OS-X
> 
> 8. While I like the slot drive rather than a DVD drive that slides
> open, I
> do (not) like having it on the front. Has that changed on newer models?
> 
> 9. And as for being "intuitive" ... I've tried for a week to get the
> hang of
> using a Mac and almost everything that I am used to doing on my "normal"
> computers, I find almost impossible to figure out on a mac.  The
> 529-page
> "How to do everything Mac" doesn't ... and if mac is so "intuitive" why
> should it need a 529-page book to explain how to use it?
> 
> In any case, I am now looking for a new (or used) laptop to replace
> this mac
> and get back to the real world.
> 
> One that intrigues me is a new, single-core, lower-powered Asus that
> claims
> to have 8+ hours of battery life.  It is also the only one I have
> seen so
> far that has lighted keys (the letters light up on the keys like the
> mac --
> one of mac's truly great features).  That seems to me to be a very
> desirable
> feature.  Only problem is that that feature seems to be available
> only in a
> larger format Asus unit wi

Re: What laptop to get to replace my 15" macbook?

[Nadim Hoque]

Josef Lowder wrote:
> Based on the very positive and enthusiastic comments from so many
> people (including several of my good plug friends), I recently
> purchased a 15" Macbook, thinking that it might be "the way to go."
>
> While the Mac is a very appealing product in many ways with many
> outstanding features, I have finally come to the conclusion that the
> disadvantages (to me) far outweigh the positives.  So I am now
> thinking of selling it and looking for something more sensible in the
> real world.  Therefore, once again, I am seeking input from the
> collective wisdom of this esteemed group.
>
> The simple, but (to me) major drawbacks of the Mac (not to mention
> their proprietary impositions that seem to be even worse than M$), are
> as follows:
>
> 1. The keyboard layout that forces that screwy Mac/Apple X key on
> users in lieu of simply using the CTRL key ... and then positioning
> that weird mac key in such a terribly awkward place.
>
> 2. Putting the "FN" key where the "CTRL" key should be (and is on
> every other computer keyboard) is really stupid.  Bottom-farthest left
> is the *only* place (from an anatomically logical standpoint) where
> the CTRL key should be (imho).
>
> 3. Failure to totally eliminate the "caps-lock" key (of course I guess
> all keyboard mfrs still remain guilty of this ridiculous failing, at
> this point).  However, I seem to accidentally hit it more on the mac
> than on my other keyboards ... I guess because on the mac it seems to
> be slightly oversized.  Why?  Duh!
>
> 4. The absolutely ridiculous limitation of being forced to the bottom
> right corner of every window as the *only* way to resize windows.
> That might be the most stupid of all Mac contrary-to-all-common-sense
> "features."  And apparently no way that I can find to "maximize" a
> window.
>
> 5. The needlessly glitzy but cumbersome "dock."
>
> 6. The lack of a simple text editor ... one that doesn't force the use
> of html or rtf.
>
> 7. Most of the *nix command-line commands and utilities that I am used
> to using do not seem to work on Mac OS-X
>
> 8. While I like the slot drive rather than a DVD drive that slides
> open, I do (not) like having it on the front. Has that changed on
> newer models?
>
> 9. And as for being "intuitive" ... I've tried for a week to get the
> hang of using a Mac and almost everything that I am used to doing on
> my "normal" computers, I find almost impossible to figure out on a
> mac.  The 529-page "How to do everything Mac" doesn't ... and if mac
> is so "intuitive" why should it need a 529-page book to explain how to
> use it?
>
> In any case, I am now looking for a new (or used) laptop to replace
> this mac and get back to the real world.
>
> One that intrigues me is a new, single-core, lower-powered Asus that
> claims to have 8+ hours of battery life.  It is also the only one I
> have seen so far that has lighted keys (the letters light up on the
> keys like the mac -- one of mac's truly great features).  That seems
> to me to be a very desirable feature.  Only problem is that that
> feature seems to be available only in a larger format Asus unit with a
> number keypad (that I do not want).
>
> So what do y'all recommend?
>
> I like the slot drive (on the right side), built-in camera, lighted
> keys, lightest and thinnest possible, a "normal" keyboard (no 10-
> pad), at least a 15" screen, preferrably matte not glossy, and long
> battery life. I want to install Linux as the base OS and use whatever
> virtual ware will allow me to install win98 (I do *not* want the
> all-intrusive, pop-up crazy winXP).
>
> PS: Anyone interested in trading for or buying a 15" macbook with 4-gig of 
> ram?
> ---
> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>   
For the laptop in question just make sure it uses a atheros or intel 
wifi card in it. To find out in the store, ask someone who really knows 
the hardware and sometimes it will say on the bottom. The centrino 
laptops do contain the intel wifi, but make sure that it is not 
extremely new because I don't know if those will work like their new N 
card that supposedly runs faster than other N cards. As someone else who 
mentioned, just bring a live distro and try all of them out.

Sorry to hear that you do not like your mac. Me, I love the thing since 
I had gotten it. It's just as stable as linux to me and I never was 
forced to do a os wipe and definitely better than windows. I do 
understand why someone might not like macs because everything is not for 
everybody. Which macbook pro did you wind up getting and how much are 
you selling it for.

Nadim
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Re: What laptop to get to replace my 15" macbook?

[Eric Cope]

how much are you selling your macbook for? Which one is it?

On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 8:58 AM, Bob Elzer  wrote:

> How much did you spend on the Macbook, and how much do you want to spend on
> a new laptop ?
>
> What are your preferences, what does it have to have, or not have, and what
> do you want to do with it ?
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
> [mailto:plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us] On Behalf Of Josef
> Lowder
> Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 2:25 PM
> To: plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
> Subject: What laptop to get to replace my 15" macbook?
>
> Based on the very positive and enthusiastic comments from so many people
> (including several of my good plug friends), I recently purchased a 15"
> Macbook, thinking that it might be "the way to go."
>
> While the Mac is a very appealing product in many ways with many
> outstanding
> features, I have finally come to the conclusion that the disadvantages (to
> me) far outweigh the positives.  So I am now thinking of selling it and
> looking for something more sensible in the real world.  Therefore, once
> again, I am seeking input from the collective wisdom of this esteemed
> group.
>
> The simple, but (to me) major drawbacks of the Mac (not to mention their
> proprietary impositions that seem to be even worse than M$), are as
> follows:
>
> 1. The keyboard layout that forces that screwy Mac/Apple X key on users in
> lieu of simply using the CTRL key ... and then positioning that weird mac
> key in such a terribly awkward place.
>
> 2. Putting the "FN" key where the "CTRL" key should be (and is on every
> other computer keyboard) is really stupid.  Bottom-farthest left is the
> *only* place (from an anatomically logical standpoint) where the CTRL key
> should be (imho).
>
> 3. Failure to totally eliminate the "caps-lock" key (of course I guess all
> keyboard mfrs still remain guilty of this ridiculous failing, at this
> point).  However, I seem to accidentally hit it more on the mac than on my
> other keyboards ... I guess because on the mac it seems to be slightly
> oversized.  Why?  Duh!
>
> 4. The absolutely ridiculous limitation of being forced to the bottom right
> corner of every window as the *only* way to resize windows.
> That might be the most stupid of all Mac contrary-to-all-common-sense
> "features."  And apparently no way that I can find to "maximize" a window.
>
> 5. The needlessly glitzy but cumbersome "dock."
>
> 6. The lack of a simple text editor ... one that doesn't force the use of
> html or rtf.
>
> 7. Most of the *nix command-line commands and utilities that I am used to
> using do not seem to work on Mac OS-X
>
> 8. While I like the slot drive rather than a DVD drive that slides open, I
> do (not) like having it on the front. Has that changed on newer models?
>
> 9. And as for being "intuitive" ... I've tried for a week to get the hang
> of
> using a Mac and almost everything that I am used to doing on my "normal"
> computers, I find almost impossible to figure out on a mac.  The 529-page
> "How to do everything Mac" doesn't ... and if mac is so "intuitive" why
> should it need a 529-page book to explain how to use it?
>
> In any case, I am now looking for a new (or used) laptop to replace this
> mac
> and get back to the real world.
>
> One that intrigues me is a new, single-core, lower-powered Asus that claims
> to have 8+ hours of battery life.  It is also the only one I have seen so
> far that has lighted keys (the letters light up on the keys like the mac --
> one of mac's truly great features).  That seems to me to be a very
> desirable
> feature.  Only problem is that that feature seems to be available only in a
> larger format Asus unit with a number keypad (that I do not want).
>
> So what do y'all recommend?
>
> I like the slot drive (on the right side), built-in camera, lighted keys,
> lightest and thinnest possible, a "normal" keyboard (no 10- pad), at least
> a
> 15" screen, preferrably matte not glossy, and long battery life. I want to
> install Linux as the base OS and use whatever virtual ware will allow me to
> install win98 (I do *not* want the all-intrusive, pop-up crazy winXP).
>
> PS: Anyone interested in trading for or buying a 15" macbook with 4-gig of
> ram?
> ---
> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/

RE: What laptop to get to replace my 15" macbook?

[Bob Elzer]

How much did you spend on the Macbook, and how much do you want to spend on
a new laptop ?

What are your preferences, what does it have to have, or not have, and what
do you want to do with it ?

 

-Original Message-
From: plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
[mailto:plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us] On Behalf Of Josef
Lowder
Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 2:25 PM
To: plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
Subject: What laptop to get to replace my 15" macbook?

Based on the very positive and enthusiastic comments from so many people
(including several of my good plug friends), I recently purchased a 15"
Macbook, thinking that it might be "the way to go."

While the Mac is a very appealing product in many ways with many outstanding
features, I have finally come to the conclusion that the disadvantages (to
me) far outweigh the positives.  So I am now thinking of selling it and
looking for something more sensible in the real world.  Therefore, once
again, I am seeking input from the collective wisdom of this esteemed group.

The simple, but (to me) major drawbacks of the Mac (not to mention their
proprietary impositions that seem to be even worse than M$), are as follows:

1. The keyboard layout that forces that screwy Mac/Apple X key on users in
lieu of simply using the CTRL key ... and then positioning that weird mac
key in such a terribly awkward place.

2. Putting the "FN" key where the "CTRL" key should be (and is on every
other computer keyboard) is really stupid.  Bottom-farthest left is the
*only* place (from an anatomically logical standpoint) where the CTRL key
should be (imho).

3. Failure to totally eliminate the "caps-lock" key (of course I guess all
keyboard mfrs still remain guilty of this ridiculous failing, at this
point).  However, I seem to accidentally hit it more on the mac than on my
other keyboards ... I guess because on the mac it seems to be slightly
oversized.  Why?  Duh!

4. The absolutely ridiculous limitation of being forced to the bottom right
corner of every window as the *only* way to resize windows.
That might be the most stupid of all Mac contrary-to-all-common-sense
"features."  And apparently no way that I can find to "maximize" a window.

5. The needlessly glitzy but cumbersome "dock."

6. The lack of a simple text editor ... one that doesn't force the use of
html or rtf.

7. Most of the *nix command-line commands and utilities that I am used to
using do not seem to work on Mac OS-X

8. While I like the slot drive rather than a DVD drive that slides open, I
do (not) like having it on the front. Has that changed on newer models?

9. And as for being "intuitive" ... I've tried for a week to get the hang of
using a Mac and almost everything that I am used to doing on my "normal"
computers, I find almost impossible to figure out on a mac.  The 529-page
"How to do everything Mac" doesn't ... and if mac is so "intuitive" why
should it need a 529-page book to explain how to use it?

In any case, I am now looking for a new (or used) laptop to replace this mac
and get back to the real world.

One that intrigues me is a new, single-core, lower-powered Asus that claims
to have 8+ hours of battery life.  It is also the only one I have seen so
far that has lighted keys (the letters light up on the keys like the mac --
one of mac's truly great features).  That seems to me to be a very desirable
feature.  Only problem is that that feature seems to be available only in a
larger format Asus unit with a number keypad (that I do not want).

So what do y'all recommend?

I like the slot drive (on the right side), built-in camera, lighted keys,
lightest and thinnest possible, a "normal" keyboard (no 10- pad), at least a
15" screen, preferrably matte not glossy, and long battery life. I want to
install Linux as the base OS and use whatever virtual ware will allow me to
install win98 (I do *not* want the all-intrusive, pop-up crazy winXP).

PS: Anyone interested in trading for or buying a 15" macbook with 4-gig of
ram?
---
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Re: What laptop to get to replace my 15" macbook?

[Eric Cope]

I am blown away you had such difficulty using a Mac. I used to hate Macs. I
bought one because I was sick of Windows... Its been fantastic. Sorry you
had such a bad experience, although it seems your complaints are more
cosmetic than anything else.

On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 8:17 AM, Dazed_75  wrote:

> Nice to know nothing has changed WRT using a Mac since my company forced me
> to use one back when the 1st Macintosh was getting popular.  :)
>
> On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 2:24 PM, Josef Lowder  wrote:
>
>> Based on the very positive and enthusiastic comments from so many
>> people (including several of my good plug friends), I recently
>> purchased a 15" Macbook, thinking that it might be "the way to go."
>>
>> While the Mac is a very appealing product in many ways with many
>> outstanding features, I have finally come to the conclusion that the
>> disadvantages (to me) far outweigh the positives.  So I am now
>> thinking of selling it and looking for something more sensible in the
>> real world.  Therefore, once again, I am seeking input from the
>> collective wisdom of this esteemed group.
>>
>> The simple, but (to me) major drawbacks of the Mac (not to mention
>> their proprietary impositions that seem to be even worse than M$), are
>> as follows:
>>
>> 1. The keyboard layout that forces that screwy Mac/Apple X key on
>> users in lieu of simply using the CTRL key ... and then positioning
>> that weird mac key in such a terribly awkward place.
>>
>> 2. Putting the "FN" key where the "CTRL" key should be (and is on
>> every other computer keyboard) is really stupid.  Bottom-farthest left
>> is the *only* place (from an anatomically logical standpoint) where
>> the CTRL key should be (imho).
>>
>> 3. Failure to totally eliminate the "caps-lock" key (of course I guess
>> all keyboard mfrs still remain guilty of this ridiculous failing, at
>> this point).  However, I seem to accidentally hit it more on the mac
>> than on my other keyboards ... I guess because on the mac it seems to
>> be slightly oversized.  Why?  Duh!
>>
>> 4. The absolutely ridiculous limitation of being forced to the bottom
>> right corner of every window as the *only* way to resize windows.
>> That might be the most stupid of all Mac contrary-to-all-common-sense
>> "features."  And apparently no way that I can find to "maximize" a
>> window.
>>
>> 5. The needlessly glitzy but cumbersome "dock."
>>
>> 6. The lack of a simple text editor ... one that doesn't force the use
>> of html or rtf.
>>
>> 7. Most of the *nix command-line commands and utilities that I am used
>> to using do not seem to work on Mac OS-X
>>
>> 8. While I like the slot drive rather than a DVD drive that slides
>> open, I do (not) like having it on the front. Has that changed on
>> newer models?
>>
>> 9. And as for being "intuitive" ... I've tried for a week to get the
>> hang of using a Mac and almost everything that I am used to doing on
>> my "normal" computers, I find almost impossible to figure out on a
>> mac.  The 529-page "How to do everything Mac" doesn't ... and if mac
>> is so "intuitive" why should it need a 529-page book to explain how to
>> use it?
>>
>> In any case, I am now looking for a new (or used) laptop to replace
>> this mac and get back to the real world.
>>
>> One that intrigues me is a new, single-core, lower-powered Asus that
>> claims to have 8+ hours of battery life.  It is also the only one I
>> have seen so far that has lighted keys (the letters light up on the
>> keys like the mac -- one of mac's truly great features).  That seems
>> to me to be a very desirable feature.  Only problem is that that
>> feature seems to be available only in a larger format Asus unit with a
>> number keypad (that I do not want).
>>
>> So what do y'all recommend?
>>
>> I like the slot drive (on the right side), built-in camera, lighted
>> keys, lightest and thinnest possible, a "normal" keyboard (no 10-
>> pad), at least a 15" screen, preferrably matte not glossy, and long
>> battery life. I want to install Linux as the base OS and use whatever
>> virtual ware will allow me to install win98 (I do *not* want the
>> all-intrusive, pop-up crazy winXP).
>>
>> PS: Anyone interested in trading for or buying a 15" macbook with 4-gig of
>> ram?
>> ---
>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Dazed_75 a.k.a. Larry
>
> The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions,
> that I wish it always to be kept alive.
>  - Thomas Jefferson
>
> ---
> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>



-- 
Eric Cope
http://cope-et-al.com
-

Re: What laptop to get to replace my 15" macbook?

[Stephen]

what did you end up getting?

On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 6:18 PM, Nathan England wrote:
> On Wednesday 19 August 2009 02:24:49 pm Josef Lowder wrote:
>> Based on the very positive and enthusiastic comments from so many
>> people (including several of my good plug friends), I recently
>> purchased a 15" Macbook, thinking that it might be "the way to go."
>>
>> While the Mac is a very appealing product in many ways with many
>> outstanding features, I have finally come to the conclusion that the
>> disadvantages (to me) far outweigh the positives.  So I am now
>> thinking of selling it and looking for something more sensible in the
>> real world.  Therefore, once again, I am seeking input from the
>> collective wisdom of this esteemed group.
>>
>> The simple, but (to me) major drawbacks of the Mac (not to mention
>> their proprietary impositions that seem to be even worse than M$), are
>> as follows:
>>
>> 1. The keyboard layout that forces that screwy Mac/Apple X key on
>> users in lieu of simply using the CTRL key ... and then positioning
>> that weird mac key in such a terribly awkward place.
>>
>> 2. Putting the "FN" key where the "CTRL" key should be (and is on
>> every other computer keyboard) is really stupid.  Bottom-farthest left
>> is the *only* place (from an anatomically logical standpoint) where
>> the CTRL key should be (imho).
>>
>> 3. Failure to totally eliminate the "caps-lock" key (of course I guess
>> all keyboard mfrs still remain guilty of this ridiculous failing, at
>> this point).  However, I seem to accidentally hit it more on the mac
>> than on my other keyboards ... I guess because on the mac it seems to
>> be slightly oversized.  Why?  Duh!
>>
>> 4. The absolutely ridiculous limitation of being forced to the bottom
>> right corner of every window as the *only* way to resize windows.
>> That might be the most stupid of all Mac contrary-to-all-common-sense
>> "features."  And apparently no way that I can find to "maximize" a
>> window.
>>
>> 5. The needlessly glitzy but cumbersome "dock."
>>
>> 6. The lack of a simple text editor ... one that doesn't force the use
>> of html or rtf.
>>
>> 7. Most of the *nix command-line commands and utilities that I am used
>> to using do not seem to work on Mac OS-X
>>
>> 8. While I like the slot drive rather than a DVD drive that slides
>> open, I do (not) like having it on the front. Has that changed on
>> newer models?
>>
>> 9. And as for being "intuitive" ... I've tried for a week to get the
>> hang of using a Mac and almost everything that I am used to doing on
>> my "normal" computers, I find almost impossible to figure out on a
>> mac.  The 529-page "How to do everything Mac" doesn't ... and if mac
>> is so "intuitive" why should it need a 529-page book to explain how to
>> use it?
>>
>> In any case, I am now looking for a new (or used) laptop to replace
>> this mac and get back to the real world.
>>
>> One that intrigues me is a new, single-core, lower-powered Asus that
>> claims to have 8+ hours of battery life.  It is also the only one I
>> have seen so far that has lighted keys (the letters light up on the
>> keys like the mac -- one of mac's truly great features).  That seems
>> to me to be a very desirable feature.  Only problem is that that
>> feature seems to be available only in a larger format Asus unit with a
>> number keypad (that I do not want).
>>
>> So what do y'all recommend?
>>
>> I like the slot drive (on the right side), built-in camera, lighted
>> keys, lightest and thinnest possible, a "normal" keyboard (no 10-
>> pad), at least a 15" screen, preferrably matte not glossy, and long
>> battery life. I want to install Linux as the base OS and use whatever
>> virtual ware will allow me to install win98 (I do *not* want the
>> all-intrusive, pop-up crazy winXP).
>>
>> PS: Anyone interested in trading for or buying a 15" macbook with 4-gig of 
>> ram?
>> ---
>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>>
>
>
> When I bought my current laptop I went to Best Buy and Fry's and asked to try 
> out their machines with a Ubuntu disc and no one had a problem with it. In 
> the end I tried a bunch of laptops and bought the one with the best support 
> in the store. I do not run Ubuntu, but it was a great trial run to see what 
> could be made to work!
>
> nathan
> --
>
> ~
> Nathan England
> (928) 951-5116
> nat...@paysonlinux.org
> http://www.paysonlinux.org/
>
> Information Security Consulting
> Software and Web Development
> Systems Administration
>
>
>
> ---
> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>



-- 
A mo

Re: What laptop to get to replace my 15" macbook?

[Dazed_75]

Nice to know nothing has changed WRT using a Mac since my company forced me
to use one back when the 1st Macintosh was getting popular.  :)

On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 2:24 PM, Josef Lowder  wrote:

> Based on the very positive and enthusiastic comments from so many
> people (including several of my good plug friends), I recently
> purchased a 15" Macbook, thinking that it might be "the way to go."
>
> While the Mac is a very appealing product in many ways with many
> outstanding features, I have finally come to the conclusion that the
> disadvantages (to me) far outweigh the positives.  So I am now
> thinking of selling it and looking for something more sensible in the
> real world.  Therefore, once again, I am seeking input from the
> collective wisdom of this esteemed group.
>
> The simple, but (to me) major drawbacks of the Mac (not to mention
> their proprietary impositions that seem to be even worse than M$), are
> as follows:
>
> 1. The keyboard layout that forces that screwy Mac/Apple X key on
> users in lieu of simply using the CTRL key ... and then positioning
> that weird mac key in such a terribly awkward place.
>
> 2. Putting the "FN" key where the "CTRL" key should be (and is on
> every other computer keyboard) is really stupid.  Bottom-farthest left
> is the *only* place (from an anatomically logical standpoint) where
> the CTRL key should be (imho).
>
> 3. Failure to totally eliminate the "caps-lock" key (of course I guess
> all keyboard mfrs still remain guilty of this ridiculous failing, at
> this point).  However, I seem to accidentally hit it more on the mac
> than on my other keyboards ... I guess because on the mac it seems to
> be slightly oversized.  Why?  Duh!
>
> 4. The absolutely ridiculous limitation of being forced to the bottom
> right corner of every window as the *only* way to resize windows.
> That might be the most stupid of all Mac contrary-to-all-common-sense
> "features."  And apparently no way that I can find to "maximize" a
> window.
>
> 5. The needlessly glitzy but cumbersome "dock."
>
> 6. The lack of a simple text editor ... one that doesn't force the use
> of html or rtf.
>
> 7. Most of the *nix command-line commands and utilities that I am used
> to using do not seem to work on Mac OS-X
>
> 8. While I like the slot drive rather than a DVD drive that slides
> open, I do (not) like having it on the front. Has that changed on
> newer models?
>
> 9. And as for being "intuitive" ... I've tried for a week to get the
> hang of using a Mac and almost everything that I am used to doing on
> my "normal" computers, I find almost impossible to figure out on a
> mac.  The 529-page "How to do everything Mac" doesn't ... and if mac
> is so "intuitive" why should it need a 529-page book to explain how to
> use it?
>
> In any case, I am now looking for a new (or used) laptop to replace
> this mac and get back to the real world.
>
> One that intrigues me is a new, single-core, lower-powered Asus that
> claims to have 8+ hours of battery life.  It is also the only one I
> have seen so far that has lighted keys (the letters light up on the
> keys like the mac -- one of mac's truly great features).  That seems
> to me to be a very desirable feature.  Only problem is that that
> feature seems to be available only in a larger format Asus unit with a
> number keypad (that I do not want).
>
> So what do y'all recommend?
>
> I like the slot drive (on the right side), built-in camera, lighted
> keys, lightest and thinnest possible, a "normal" keyboard (no 10-
> pad), at least a 15" screen, preferrably matte not glossy, and long
> battery life. I want to install Linux as the base OS and use whatever
> virtual ware will allow me to install win98 (I do *not* want the
> all-intrusive, pop-up crazy winXP).
>
> PS: Anyone interested in trading for or buying a 15" macbook with 4-gig of
> ram?
> ---
> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>



-- 
Dazed_75 a.k.a. Larry

The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions,
that I wish it always to be kept alive.
 - Thomas Jefferson
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Re: What laptop to get to replace my 15" macbook?

[Nathan England]

On Wednesday 19 August 2009 02:24:49 pm Josef Lowder wrote:
> Based on the very positive and enthusiastic comments from so many
> people (including several of my good plug friends), I recently
> purchased a 15" Macbook, thinking that it might be "the way to go."
> 
> While the Mac is a very appealing product in many ways with many
> outstanding features, I have finally come to the conclusion that the
> disadvantages (to me) far outweigh the positives.  So I am now
> thinking of selling it and looking for something more sensible in the
> real world.  Therefore, once again, I am seeking input from the
> collective wisdom of this esteemed group.
> 
> The simple, but (to me) major drawbacks of the Mac (not to mention
> their proprietary impositions that seem to be even worse than M$), are
> as follows:
> 
> 1. The keyboard layout that forces that screwy Mac/Apple X key on
> users in lieu of simply using the CTRL key ... and then positioning
> that weird mac key in such a terribly awkward place.
> 
> 2. Putting the "FN" key where the "CTRL" key should be (and is on
> every other computer keyboard) is really stupid.  Bottom-farthest left
> is the *only* place (from an anatomically logical standpoint) where
> the CTRL key should be (imho).
> 
> 3. Failure to totally eliminate the "caps-lock" key (of course I guess
> all keyboard mfrs still remain guilty of this ridiculous failing, at
> this point).  However, I seem to accidentally hit it more on the mac
> than on my other keyboards ... I guess because on the mac it seems to
> be slightly oversized.  Why?  Duh!
> 
> 4. The absolutely ridiculous limitation of being forced to the bottom
> right corner of every window as the *only* way to resize windows.
> That might be the most stupid of all Mac contrary-to-all-common-sense
> "features."  And apparently no way that I can find to "maximize" a
> window.
> 
> 5. The needlessly glitzy but cumbersome "dock."
> 
> 6. The lack of a simple text editor ... one that doesn't force the use
> of html or rtf.
> 
> 7. Most of the *nix command-line commands and utilities that I am used
> to using do not seem to work on Mac OS-X
> 
> 8. While I like the slot drive rather than a DVD drive that slides
> open, I do (not) like having it on the front. Has that changed on
> newer models?
> 
> 9. And as for being "intuitive" ... I've tried for a week to get the
> hang of using a Mac and almost everything that I am used to doing on
> my "normal" computers, I find almost impossible to figure out on a
> mac.  The 529-page "How to do everything Mac" doesn't ... and if mac
> is so "intuitive" why should it need a 529-page book to explain how to
> use it?
> 
> In any case, I am now looking for a new (or used) laptop to replace
> this mac and get back to the real world.
> 
> One that intrigues me is a new, single-core, lower-powered Asus that
> claims to have 8+ hours of battery life.  It is also the only one I
> have seen so far that has lighted keys (the letters light up on the
> keys like the mac -- one of mac's truly great features).  That seems
> to me to be a very desirable feature.  Only problem is that that
> feature seems to be available only in a larger format Asus unit with a
> number keypad (that I do not want).
> 
> So what do y'all recommend?
> 
> I like the slot drive (on the right side), built-in camera, lighted
> keys, lightest and thinnest possible, a "normal" keyboard (no 10-
> pad), at least a 15" screen, preferrably matte not glossy, and long
> battery life. I want to install Linux as the base OS and use whatever
> virtual ware will allow me to install win98 (I do *not* want the
> all-intrusive, pop-up crazy winXP).
> 
> PS: Anyone interested in trading for or buying a 15" macbook with 4-gig of 
> ram?
> ---
> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
> 


When I bought my current laptop I went to Best Buy and Fry's and asked to try 
out their machines with a Ubuntu disc and no one had a problem with it. In the 
end I tried a bunch of laptops and bought the one with the best support in the 
store. I do not run Ubuntu, but it was a great trial run to see what could be 
made to work!

nathan
-- 

~
Nathan England
(928) 951-5116
nat...@paysonlinux.org
http://www.paysonlinux.org/

Information Security Consulting
Software and Web Development
Systems Administration



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Re: What laptop to get to replace my 15" macbook?

[Austin Godber]

Have you considered installing Linux on your MacBook?  It seems that 
both the latest Fedora and Ubuntu work with little fuss on the MacBooks.

Austin


Josef Lowder wrote:
> Based on the very positive and enthusiastic comments from so many
> people (including several of my good plug friends), I recently
> purchased a 15" Macbook, thinking that it might be "the way to go."
>
> While the Mac is a very appealing product in many ways with many
> outstanding features, I have finally come to the conclusion that the
> disadvantages (to me) far outweigh the positives.  So I am now
> thinking of selling it and looking for something more sensible in the
> real world.  Therefore, once again, I am seeking input from the
> collective wisdom of this esteemed group.
>
> The simple, but (to me) major drawbacks of the Mac (not to mention
> their proprietary impositions that seem to be even worse than M$), are
> as follows:
>
> 1. The keyboard layout that forces that screwy Mac/Apple X key on
> users in lieu of simply using the CTRL key ... and then positioning
> that weird mac key in such a terribly awkward place.
>
> 2. Putting the "FN" key where the "CTRL" key should be (and is on
> every other computer keyboard) is really stupid.  Bottom-farthest left
> is the *only* place (from an anatomically logical standpoint) where
> the CTRL key should be (imho).
>
> 3. Failure to totally eliminate the "caps-lock" key (of course I guess
> all keyboard mfrs still remain guilty of this ridiculous failing, at
> this point).  However, I seem to accidentally hit it more on the mac
> than on my other keyboards ... I guess because on the mac it seems to
> be slightly oversized.  Why?  Duh!
>
> 4. The absolutely ridiculous limitation of being forced to the bottom
> right corner of every window as the *only* way to resize windows.
> That might be the most stupid of all Mac contrary-to-all-common-sense
> "features."  And apparently no way that I can find to "maximize" a
> window.
>
> 5. The needlessly glitzy but cumbersome "dock."
>
> 6. The lack of a simple text editor ... one that doesn't force the use
> of html or rtf.
>
> 7. Most of the *nix command-line commands and utilities that I am used
> to using do not seem to work on Mac OS-X
>
> 8. While I like the slot drive rather than a DVD drive that slides
> open, I do (not) like having it on the front. Has that changed on
> newer models?
>
> 9. And as for being "intuitive" ... I've tried for a week to get the
> hang of using a Mac and almost everything that I am used to doing on
> my "normal" computers, I find almost impossible to figure out on a
> mac.  The 529-page "How to do everything Mac" doesn't ... and if mac
> is so "intuitive" why should it need a 529-page book to explain how to
> use it?
>
> In any case, I am now looking for a new (or used) laptop to replace
> this mac and get back to the real world.
>
> One that intrigues me is a new, single-core, lower-powered Asus that
> claims to have 8+ hours of battery life.  It is also the only one I
> have seen so far that has lighted keys (the letters light up on the
> keys like the mac -- one of mac's truly great features).  That seems
> to me to be a very desirable feature.  Only problem is that that
> feature seems to be available only in a larger format Asus unit with a
> number keypad (that I do not want).
>
> So what do y'all recommend?
>
> I like the slot drive (on the right side), built-in camera, lighted
> keys, lightest and thinnest possible, a "normal" keyboard (no 10-
> pad), at least a 15" screen, preferrably matte not glossy, and long
> battery life. I want to install Linux as the base OS and use whatever
> virtual ware will allow me to install win98 (I do *not* want the
> all-intrusive, pop-up crazy winXP).
>
> PS: Anyone interested in trading for or buying a 15" macbook with 4-gig of 
> ram?
> ---
> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
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>   

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Re: What laptop to get to replace my 15" macbook?

[JD Austin]

I'm not a mac guy YET... I'll probably build a hackintosh box eventually
here are a few related links:
http://www.simplehelp.net/2006/10/22/how-to-install-x11-in-os-x/
http://www.osxgnu.org/
http://developer.apple.com/tools/gcc_overview.html
http://www.odi.ch/prog/macbookpro/index.php

On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 3:44 PM, Trent Shipley  wrote:

> Josef Lowder wrote:
>
> > 7. Most of the *nix command-line commands and utilities that I am used
> > to using do not seem to work on Mac OS-X
>
> I have the impression that it is possible to put an X-Windowing system
> and the *nix collection of utilities on OS-X and run all the goodies
> natively.  Is this possible?  What keywords would you use to look for a
> How-To?
> ---
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Re: What laptop to get to replace my 15" macbook?

[Stephen]

apple has a X-window subsystem that is separate from whatever their
interface is. I would start there.

On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 3:44 PM, Trent Shipley wrote:
> Josef Lowder wrote:
>
>> 7. Most of the *nix command-line commands and utilities that I am used
>> to using do not seem to work on Mac OS-X
>
> I have the impression that it is possible to put an X-Windowing system
> and the *nix collection of utilities on OS-X and run all the goodies
> natively.  Is this possible?  What keywords would you use to look for a
> How-To?
> ---
> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>



-- 
A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you from
rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button.

Stephen
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Re: What laptop to get to replace my 15" macbook?

[Ryan Rix]

Trent Shipley wrote:
> Josef Lowder wrote:
> 
>> 7. Most of the *nix command-line commands and utilities that I am used
>> to using do not seem to work on Mac OS-X
> 
> I have the impression that it is possible to put an X-Windowing system
> and the *nix collection of utilities on OS-X and run all the goodies
> natively.  Is this possible?  What keywords would you use to look for a
> How-To?
or if you are more comfortable with apt
http://finkproject.org/

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Re: What laptop to get to replace my 15" macbook?

[Ryan Rix]

Trent Shipley wrote:
> Josef Lowder wrote:
> 
>> 7. Most of the *nix command-line commands and utilities that I am used
>> to using do not seem to work on Mac OS-X
> 
> I have the impression that it is possible to put an X-Windowing system
> and the *nix collection of utilities on OS-X and run all the goodies
> natively.  Is this possible?  What keywords would you use to look for a
> How-To?
http://www.macports.org/

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Re: What laptop to get to replace my 15" macbook?

[Trent Shipley]

Josef Lowder wrote:

> 7. Most of the *nix command-line commands and utilities that I am used
> to using do not seem to work on Mac OS-X

I have the impression that it is possible to put an X-Windowing system
and the *nix collection of utilities on OS-X and run all the goodies
natively.  Is this possible?  What keywords would you use to look for a
How-To?
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Re: What laptop to get to replace my 15" macbook?

[Michael Butash]

Try a dell xps m1550, they can be had pretty cheap on outlet.dell.com
these days, and often I'll see 15% off coupons on deal sites.  I love my
m1330, the 13" variant, probably the best laptop I've ever owned.  Fully
loaded I payed about $1300 shipped with top of the line core2duo, 4g of
memory, and nvidia m8400 video card.  I've been considering upgrading to
the m1550 just because I can get them with a pimp 1920x1200 display.
Between work and personal, I've used one or more dells at a time over
the past 8 years or so, and have overall been quite pleased with them.  

When I moved in with my now wife, she had an old imac g4 that needed an
os-wipe, so I got 10.4 osx for it and ran it on there for a year or so -
absolutely hated using it.  It was convenient to sit on my coffee table
for looking up things while in the living room, but was painful to use
coming from using linux full-time at this point.  It wasn't as featured
as either windoze or linux, but was some kind of bastard in between that
made me feel like I need to drop 80 or so iq points to *get it*, and
with half the functionality/software of a real computer.  Finally I got
so fed up with osx, I nuked it and put ppc xubuntu on it, and life has
been much better (not to mention 4x faster).

I really don't get why people voluntarily pay the 50%+ apple tax, I
found it's really mediocre at best for power users.  Maybe my grandma or
a 4 year old niece would dig it, but otherwise it's simply too brain
dead for me.

-mb


On Wed, 2009-08-19 at 14:24 -0700, Josef Lowder wrote:
> Based on the very positive and enthusiastic comments from so many
> people (including several of my good plug friends), I recently
> purchased a 15" Macbook, thinking that it might be "the way to go."
> 
> While the Mac is a very appealing product in many ways with many
> outstanding features, I have finally come to the conclusion that the
> disadvantages (to me) far outweigh the positives.  So I am now
> thinking of selling it and looking for something more sensible in the
> real world.  Therefore, once again, I am seeking input from the
> collective wisdom of this esteemed group.
> 
> The simple, but (to me) major drawbacks of the Mac (not to mention
> their proprietary impositions that seem to be even worse than M$), are
> as follows:
> 
> 1. The keyboard layout that forces that screwy Mac/Apple X key on
> users in lieu of simply using the CTRL key ... and then positioning
> that weird mac key in such a terribly awkward place.
> 
> 2. Putting the "FN" key where the "CTRL" key should be (and is on
> every other computer keyboard) is really stupid.  Bottom-farthest left
> is the *only* place (from an anatomically logical standpoint) where
> the CTRL key should be (imho).
> 
> 3. Failure to totally eliminate the "caps-lock" key (of course I guess
> all keyboard mfrs still remain guilty of this ridiculous failing, at
> this point).  However, I seem to accidentally hit it more on the mac
> than on my other keyboards ... I guess because on the mac it seems to
> be slightly oversized.  Why?  Duh!
> 
> 4. The absolutely ridiculous limitation of being forced to the bottom
> right corner of every window as the *only* way to resize windows.
> That might be the most stupid of all Mac contrary-to-all-common-sense
> "features."  And apparently no way that I can find to "maximize" a
> window.
> 
> 5. The needlessly glitzy but cumbersome "dock."
> 
> 6. The lack of a simple text editor ... one that doesn't force the use
> of html or rtf.
> 
> 7. Most of the *nix command-line commands and utilities that I am used
> to using do not seem to work on Mac OS-X
> 
> 8. While I like the slot drive rather than a DVD drive that slides
> open, I do (not) like having it on the front. Has that changed on
> newer models?
> 
> 9. And as for being "intuitive" ... I've tried for a week to get the
> hang of using a Mac and almost everything that I am used to doing on
> my "normal" computers, I find almost impossible to figure out on a
> mac.  The 529-page "How to do everything Mac" doesn't ... and if mac
> is so "intuitive" why should it need a 529-page book to explain how to
> use it?
> 
> In any case, I am now looking for a new (or used) laptop to replace
> this mac and get back to the real world.
> 
> One that intrigues me is a new, single-core, lower-powered Asus that
> claims to have 8+ hours of battery life.  It is also the only one I
> have seen so far that has lighted keys (the letters light up on the
> keys like the mac -- one of mac's truly great features).  That seems
> to me to be a very desirable feature.  Only problem is that that
> feature seems to be available only in a larger format Asus unit with a
> number keypad (that I do not want).
> 
> So what do y'all recommend?
> 
> I like the slot drive (on the right side), built-in camera, lighted
> keys, lightest and thinnest possible, a "normal" keyboard (no 10-
> pad), at least a 15" screen, preferrably matte not glossy, and long
> battery life. I want

Re: What laptop to get to replace my 15" macbook?

[Stephen]

i would take a look at sager and system76 based machines. in addition
some of the dell laptops work very well with Linux.

On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 2:24 PM, Josef Lowder wrote:
> Based on the very positive and enthusiastic comments from so many
> people (including several of my good plug friends), I recently
> purchased a 15" Macbook, thinking that it might be "the way to go."
>
> While the Mac is a very appealing product in many ways with many
> outstanding features, I have finally come to the conclusion that the
> disadvantages (to me) far outweigh the positives.  So I am now
> thinking of selling it and looking for something more sensible in the
> real world.  Therefore, once again, I am seeking input from the
> collective wisdom of this esteemed group.
>
> The simple, but (to me) major drawbacks of the Mac (not to mention
> their proprietary impositions that seem to be even worse than M$), are
> as follows:
>
> 1. The keyboard layout that forces that screwy Mac/Apple X key on
> users in lieu of simply using the CTRL key ... and then positioning
> that weird mac key in such a terribly awkward place.
>
> 2. Putting the "FN" key where the "CTRL" key should be (and is on
> every other computer keyboard) is really stupid.  Bottom-farthest left
> is the *only* place (from an anatomically logical standpoint) where
> the CTRL key should be (imho).
>
> 3. Failure to totally eliminate the "caps-lock" key (of course I guess
> all keyboard mfrs still remain guilty of this ridiculous failing, at
> this point).  However, I seem to accidentally hit it more on the mac
> than on my other keyboards ... I guess because on the mac it seems to
> be slightly oversized.  Why?  Duh!
>
> 4. The absolutely ridiculous limitation of being forced to the bottom
> right corner of every window as the *only* way to resize windows.
> That might be the most stupid of all Mac contrary-to-all-common-sense
> "features."  And apparently no way that I can find to "maximize" a
> window.
>
> 5. The needlessly glitzy but cumbersome "dock."
>
> 6. The lack of a simple text editor ... one that doesn't force the use
> of html or rtf.
>
> 7. Most of the *nix command-line commands and utilities that I am used
> to using do not seem to work on Mac OS-X
>
> 8. While I like the slot drive rather than a DVD drive that slides
> open, I do (not) like having it on the front. Has that changed on
> newer models?
>
> 9. And as for being "intuitive" ... I've tried for a week to get the
> hang of using a Mac and almost everything that I am used to doing on
> my "normal" computers, I find almost impossible to figure out on a
> mac.  The 529-page "How to do everything Mac" doesn't ... and if mac
> is so "intuitive" why should it need a 529-page book to explain how to
> use it?
>
> In any case, I am now looking for a new (or used) laptop to replace
> this mac and get back to the real world.
>
> One that intrigues me is a new, single-core, lower-powered Asus that
> claims to have 8+ hours of battery life.  It is also the only one I
> have seen so far that has lighted keys (the letters light up on the
> keys like the mac -- one of mac's truly great features).  That seems
> to me to be a very desirable feature.  Only problem is that that
> feature seems to be available only in a larger format Asus unit with a
> number keypad (that I do not want).
>
> So what do y'all recommend?
>
> I like the slot drive (on the right side), built-in camera, lighted
> keys, lightest and thinnest possible, a "normal" keyboard (no 10-
> pad), at least a 15" screen, preferrably matte not glossy, and long
> battery life. I want to install Linux as the base OS and use whatever
> virtual ware will allow me to install win98 (I do *not* want the
> all-intrusive, pop-up crazy winXP).
>
> PS: Anyone interested in trading for or buying a 15" macbook with 4-gig of 
> ram?
> ---
> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>



-- 
A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you from
rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button.

Stephen
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What laptop to get to replace my 15" macbook?

[Josef Lowder]

Based on the very positive and enthusiastic comments from so many
people (including several of my good plug friends), I recently
purchased a 15" Macbook, thinking that it might be "the way to go."

While the Mac is a very appealing product in many ways with many
outstanding features, I have finally come to the conclusion that the
disadvantages (to me) far outweigh the positives.  So I am now
thinking of selling it and looking for something more sensible in the
real world.  Therefore, once again, I am seeking input from the
collective wisdom of this esteemed group.

The simple, but (to me) major drawbacks of the Mac (not to mention
their proprietary impositions that seem to be even worse than M$), are
as follows:

1. The keyboard layout that forces that screwy Mac/Apple X key on
users in lieu of simply using the CTRL key ... and then positioning
that weird mac key in such a terribly awkward place.

2. Putting the "FN" key where the "CTRL" key should be (and is on
every other computer keyboard) is really stupid.  Bottom-farthest left
is the *only* place (from an anatomically logical standpoint) where
the CTRL key should be (imho).

3. Failure to totally eliminate the "caps-lock" key (of course I guess
all keyboard mfrs still remain guilty of this ridiculous failing, at
this point).  However, I seem to accidentally hit it more on the mac
than on my other keyboards ... I guess because on the mac it seems to
be slightly oversized.  Why?  Duh!

4. The absolutely ridiculous limitation of being forced to the bottom
right corner of every window as the *only* way to resize windows.
That might be the most stupid of all Mac contrary-to-all-common-sense
"features."  And apparently no way that I can find to "maximize" a
window.

5. The needlessly glitzy but cumbersome "dock."

6. The lack of a simple text editor ... one that doesn't force the use
of html or rtf.

7. Most of the *nix command-line commands and utilities that I am used
to using do not seem to work on Mac OS-X

8. While I like the slot drive rather than a DVD drive that slides
open, I do (not) like having it on the front. Has that changed on
newer models?

9. And as for being "intuitive" ... I've tried for a week to get the
hang of using a Mac and almost everything that I am used to doing on
my "normal" computers, I find almost impossible to figure out on a
mac.  The 529-page "How to do everything Mac" doesn't ... and if mac
is so "intuitive" why should it need a 529-page book to explain how to
use it?

In any case, I am now looking for a new (or used) laptop to replace
this mac and get back to the real world.

One that intrigues me is a new, single-core, lower-powered Asus that
claims to have 8+ hours of battery life.  It is also the only one I
have seen so far that has lighted keys (the letters light up on the
keys like the mac -- one of mac's truly great features).  That seems
to me to be a very desirable feature.  Only problem is that that
feature seems to be available only in a larger format Asus unit with a
number keypad (that I do not want).

So what do y'all recommend?

I like the slot drive (on the right side), built-in camera, lighted
keys, lightest and thinnest possible, a "normal" keyboard (no 10-
pad), at least a 15" screen, preferrably matte not glossy, and long
battery life. I want to install Linux as the base OS and use whatever
virtual ware will allow me to install win98 (I do *not* want the
all-intrusive, pop-up crazy winXP).

PS: Anyone interested in trading for or buying a 15" macbook with 4-gig of ram?
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