Re: [PLUG] Linux Journal Readers' choice awards 2013

[Rahul Sundaram]

Hi


On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 3:01 PM, Amarendra Godbole  wrote:

> There may not be security updates, but there may not be security
> issues in the first place. The only way to ensure this is to lookup
> the quality of developers' on that tool - actively maintained, but too
> many cooks may not be optimum from a security point of view. Consider
> the case of Linux kernel - clearly security isn't a priority,
> especially because they accept binary blobs left, right and center.
> World domination is.
>

The security focus on Linux kernel needs to be improved but this is not
because they are adding some binary firmware since security issues are not
limited to firmware at all.  Quite the contrary, all the firmware is being
separated out over time and shipped as a separate tarball and most
distributions ship firmware separately as well.   That is the recommended
practice.  The real problem is the lack of security tagging in the
changelog and not enough attention to systematic improvements but the
situation is better than before.

Rahul
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Re: [PLUG] Linux Journal Readers' choice awards 2013

[Sudhanwa Jogalekar]

On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 8:00 AM, Sankarshan Mukhopadhyay <
sankarshan.mukhopadh...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, Jan 7, 2014 at 5:20 PM, Mandar Vaze / मंदार वझे
>  wrote:
> > When choosing a tool, I typically check when was the last "active"
> > development.
> > If my requirement is low enough - something that isn't updated in few
> years
> > might also work for me "now"
> > but when I need a security update, and no one is maintaining it, I am out
> > of luck (I know, open source, fix it yourself, but honestly just because
> > one has access to source, doesn't mean one has skills to fix)
>
> Mutt does have activity. At least 
> has.
>
> Applications are as good as the design decisions which result in their
> development. If someone finds that that new fangled applications are
> not providing enough merit to switchover, the possible reason might be
> that the decisions of design and user experience are something that
> does not meet this user's requirement. That happens all the time and,
> there's not much achieved by boiling the ocean.
>

Activity/nonactivity is not a correct parameter.
What about qmail? There is hardly anything happening on qmail. But it is
still popular, secure and it just works !!

-Sudhanwa


-- 

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Re: [PLUG] Linux Journal Readers' choice awards 2013

[Amarendra Godbole]

On Tue, Jan 7, 2014 at 3:50 AM, Mandar Vaze / मंदार वझे
 wrote:
>> Can you elaborate what "moving with times means"? Tools of the newer times
>> make me no more productive than those of yesteryear, so I don't see much a
>> point.
>>
>
> It was a generic remark - may or may not apply in the context of "mutt" -
> hence the "Disclaimer" at the end of my original email
> Anyway, let me try to elaborate further. Since we are talking "generic" the
> situation may or may not apply in your case.
>
> When choosing a tool, I typically check when was the last "active"
> development.
> If my requirement is low enough - something that isn't updated in few years
> might also work for me "now"
> but when I need a security update, and no one is maintaining it, I am out
> of luck (I know, open source, fix it yourself, but honestly just because
> one has access to source, doesn't mean one has skills to fix)
>
> In this scenario - I might be better off with something that is "actively"
> being developed (Doesn't mean bleeding edge, cause it has different
> problems)
>
> That is what I meant by "moving with times"
[...]

There may not be security updates, but there may not be security
issues in the first place. The only way to ensure this is to lookup
the quality of developers' on that tool - actively maintained, but too
many cooks may not be optimum from a security point of view. Consider
the case of Linux kernel - clearly security isn't a priority,
especially because they accept binary blobs left, right and center.
World domination is. Contrast this with OpenBSD, which operates on a
very conservative model of development, with accurate documentation to
match (they pride themselves in having up-to-date and accurate
documentation) - their manpages have code that can be copy-pasted "as
is", rather than having toy code with all sorts of fluffy disclaimers.
OpenBSD still uses cvs, because it is mature, stable, and works for
them. Oh yes, one can argue OpenBSD does not control the firmware on
the network cards, which can be rogue. Definitely, but their bar of
security is way high than what Linux accepts.

If security is your priority, then maybe Linux is not the correct
answer. If using a generic, out-of-the-box usable, and open source OS
is, then probably stick with Linux. OpenBSD is just another example
here, you can substitute it with your choice of known secure OS.

I personally feel it is very important to decide where your priorities
lie, and put enough effort into understanding, and then make a choice
of tools/OS/whatever.

> On a lighter note - Original comment was in the context of "feeling like
> part of museum".
> If "you" feel productive with your current set of tools, then "you"
> shouldn't feel ancient/part of museum/endangered specie.
> What am I missing ?
[...]

You are missing the fad, which essentially means you are missing
nothing. Twitter, Facebook are all blown out of proportion for their
actual usefulness, and end up being huge time-wasters. Think of it -
how much time you spend on facebook/twitter/<>
as compared to a few years ago when these were not available? Now
justify that time spent with the productivity quotient for yourself,
and you'll have the answer. Twitter/Facebook are good to keep in touch
with friends, but then when you overdo (as 95% of the populate, FB and
Twitter ain't going high on the stocks just like that) you are
actually decreasing the overall productivity of the populace in the
name of social networking. Really, the sad situation is this - most
new technology is fad these days, with moron Silicon Valley investors
who cannot differentiate sh**, and the overall economy overspending on
technology that brings you little benefit as compared to the amount
being invested.

Personally for me, I stick with the right tool for the job, haven't
changed most of my tools in a decade, and haven't seen a decrease in
productivity at all. Right tools are all that are required, not new
ones (think of a hammer, now would you want a hammer that mails you a
reminder that you need to hammer a nail?). ;-)

-ag

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Re: [PLUG] Linux Journal Readers' choice awards 2013

[Sankarshan Mukhopadhyay]

On Tue, Jan 7, 2014 at 5:20 PM, Mandar Vaze / मंदार वझे
 wrote:
> When choosing a tool, I typically check when was the last "active"
> development.
> If my requirement is low enough - something that isn't updated in few years
> might also work for me "now"
> but when I need a security update, and no one is maintaining it, I am out
> of luck (I know, open source, fix it yourself, but honestly just because
> one has access to source, doesn't mean one has skills to fix)

Mutt does have activity. At least  has.

Applications are as good as the design decisions which result in their
development. If someone finds that that new fangled applications are
not providing enough merit to switchover, the possible reason might be
that the decisions of design and user experience are something that
does not meet this user's requirement. That happens all the time and,
there's not much achieved by boiling the ocean.


-- 
sankarshan mukhopadhyay


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Re: [PLUG] Linux Journal Readers' choice awards 2013

[Mayuresh]

On Tue, Jan 07, 2014 at 05:20:51PM +0530, Mandar Vaze / ? ??? wrote:
> If "you" feel productive with your current set of tools, then "you"
> shouldn't feel ancient/part of museum/endangered specie.
> What am I missing ?

No "I" was not feeling ancient/museum/endangered. If you read my mail it
was about a perception about people who use such platforms. The remark was
in the context of mutt's %share being very low.

If you ask me, I really don't care about usage % etc. Yes, I do keep
reasserting my platforms for suitability for changing usage patterns,
improvising for information management. If something necessitates so I'll
change my platforms. But it has not happened in many years, though things
done by me "around" the platforms keep evolving.

Mayuresh

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Re: [PLUG] Linux Journal Readers' choice awards 2013

[Mandar Vaze / मंदार वझे]

> Can you elaborate what "moving with times means"? Tools of the newer times
> make me no more productive than those of yesteryear, so I don't see much a
> point.
>

It was a generic remark - may or may not apply in the context of "mutt" -
hence the "Disclaimer" at the end of my original email
Anyway, let me try to elaborate further. Since we are talking "generic" the
situation may or may not apply in your case.

When choosing a tool, I typically check when was the last "active"
development.
If my requirement is low enough - something that isn't updated in few years
might also work for me "now"
but when I need a security update, and no one is maintaining it, I am out
of luck (I know, open source, fix it yourself, but honestly just because
one has access to source, doesn't mean one has skills to fix)

In this scenario - I might be better off with something that is "actively"
being developed (Doesn't mean bleeding edge, cause it has different
problems)

That is what I meant by "moving with times"

On a lighter note - Original comment was in the context of "feeling like
part of museum".
If "you" feel productive with your current set of tools, then "you"
shouldn't feel ancient/part of museum/endangered specie.
What am I missing ?

-Mandar
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Re: [PLUG] Linux Journal Readers' choice awards 2013

[ag@gmail]

> On Jan 3, 2014, at 10:54 AM, Mandar Vaze / मंदार वझे  
> wrote:
> 
> Fir
> 
>> appears a yesteryears' favorite now with mere 4.8% share. (I use mutt and
>> feel like an endangered species... danger of being driven away to some
>> corner of an archaeological museum, with no idea about my wrongdoing.)
> 
> species doesn't become extinct (archaeological museum reference) due to
> their "own" wrongdoing
> Think dinosaurs :)
> 
> In case of techie - wrongdoing could be "not moving with times"
> 
> [...]

Can you elaborate what "moving with times means"? Tools of the newer times make 
me no more productive than those of yesteryear, so I don't see much a point.

It is interesting when people compare market share - I merely say different 
folks, different strokes! :-)

-ag


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Re: [PLUG] Linux Journal Readers' choice awards 2013

[Mayuresh]

On Sat, Jan 04, 2014 at 12:24:36AM +0530, Mandar Vaze / ? ??? wrote:
> > appears a yesteryears' favorite now with mere 4.8% share. (I use mutt and
> > feel like an endangered species... danger of being driven away to some
> > corner of an archaeological museum, with no idea about my wrongdoing.)
> >
> 
> In case of techie - wrongdoing could be "not moving with times"

More than time, it's just a preference divide.

When I chose mutt, thunderbird, kmail, evolution, webmail all existed and
I tried nearly all of them as well. Switching to mutt was a choice rather
than old habit, which I have never resented.

I definitely keep my setup evolving, where keeping with times means
looking for better and better ways to manage the ever exploding
information, reducing manual intervention to minimum possible level. For
me, mutt (or for that matter a no of text applications) are a _platform_
rather than an application, on which I can build my own application fairly
quickly.

I don't insist this to suit everyone. It's a subjective matter and hence
not a flame war.

Mayuresh.

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Re: [PLUG] Linux Journal Readers' choice awards 2013

[Mandar Vaze / मंदार वझे]

Fir

> appears a yesteryears' favorite now with mere 4.8% share. (I use mutt and
> feel like an endangered species... danger of being driven away to some
> corner of an archaeological museum, with no idea about my wrongdoing.)
>

species doesn't become extinct (archaeological museum reference) due to
their "own" wrongdoing
Think dinosaurs :)

In case of techie - wrongdoing could be "not moving with times"

Disclaimer : This is a generic comment, it is not a comment upon usage of
mutt.
Note : It is sad to have to put Disclaimer. But long time subscribers know
that had I not included it, it would have resulted into a flame war.
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