California harmonies (was Soul)
Speaking of which, has P2 ever talked about the whole California country rock style of harmony where it's always in unrelentingly sweet thirds-no tension, no dissonance, no variation? Er, ah, that's your basic bluegrass harmony. Not Stanley mountain music,bluegrass. Via Chris Hillman, Herb Pedersen, Doug Dillard, Bernie Leadon,Jim Dickson (producer), et.al...Where's that dang Budrocket when youneed him, anyhow? He's got a pretty good grasp of the details. I only find this style cloying when over-used or ILL-used by inferior imitators (which may even include, er, US). As for the Byrds, you can't find anything more glorious than the outro of Bells Of Rhymney, or the spooky, bagpipe-drone of the pedal tone background harmonies on If You're Gone (from the Turn,Turn, Turn Lp). As for Herb Pedersen, check out his harmony arrangements for the Dillards; some really beautiful bluegrass-meets-Beach Boys intervals, lots of shape-note influenced note bending. Interestingly enough, Dillards mandolinist, Dean Webb, assisted the Byrds in developing their first hit record. Back in 1964, both bands rehearsed at World Pacific Studios (under the ageis of manager Jim Dickson) were friends. Driving home late one night, Dean passed by World Pacific noticed Dickson's Volkswagen parked in the lot. Inside, Dickson was vainly attempting to settle a loud argument involving members of the Byrds (no surprise there...listen to the hidden track on the Notorious Byrd Bros. reissue). They were divided on how the harmony should sound on a particular song they were trying to record. Dean was drawn into the dispute and asked to solve the dilemma. He took McGuinn aside worked out the parts on tape, singing tenor to McGuinn. When that was done, Dean sang the baritone. The Byrds carefully followed Dean's arrangement, and easily recorded the song in straight triad harmony. The result was Mr. Tambourine Man. Further revelations on the California sound can be found in Desperados, the upcoming book by Canadian writer John Einarson...should be a corker, when finally released! Buddy Harmony Rockets * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Buddy Woodward - [EMAIL PROTECTED] THE GHOST ROCKETS - Maximum Rhythm Bluegrass http://www.hudsonet.com/~undertow/ghostrockets* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
RE: California harmonies (was: Soul)
the whole California country rock style of harmony where it's always in unrelentingly sweet thirds-no tension, no dissonance, no variation...cloying whether it's the Byrds, the Eagles, Desert Rose...whoever. Er, ah, that's your basic bluegrass harmony. Via Chris Hillman, Herb Pedersen, Doug Dillard, Bernie Leadon, Jim Dickson (producer), et.al. Check out the newly-reissued Scottsville Squirrel Barkers, the Hillsmen reissue (Sugar Hill), the Dillards comp (There Was A Time, Vanguard), etc. Where's that dang Budrocket when you need him, anyhow? He's got a pretty good grasp of the details. Jon Weisberger Well, so does Jon (and that Rosenberg book too...though I'd add that there are also, in addition to this clear bluegrass influence, rock and roll harmony influences building on what the Beach Boys and Mamas and Papas, for examples, had done--which probably takes us back even to the forever plaid/Four Freshman kind of stuff which would REALLY appall somebody who finds the BYRDS cloying!) If I happen to think there could be potential power inf a NOT-entirely unrelentingly sweet approach to these harmonies (coming shortly from Mr. Earle?) my answer to this question, for what it's worth, is that sometimes it's also powerful to have harmonies that are harmonious! (For one secondary thing this sort of question raises-- without sweet harmonies, how would you even know "dissonance and "variation" when you heard them! Variation from WHAT?) Personally, I don't think the handling of these sounds by the likes of the Byrds and the Desert Rose band is as variationless or tensionless as this origina lpost in this thread suggests... and the one that says Crosby, Stills and Nash are to blame has the history backwards, in the sense that they were a later follow-on to this Post-Byrds California style--and I can only say that LOTS of ol' rockers were fairly turned off by the "new"Crosby-dominated sound notions of CSN at the time, for the "blanding down" reasons raised . If you were a hardcore fan of the Band and Dylan and the Burrito Brothers and Let It Bleed Stones in 1968/69, you certainly were NOT necessarily in love with these developments at all! Some of the CSN smoothed-out sound seemed copped not from anything California but from Simon Garfunkle ; the first record often sounds like variations on "Cecilia" to me! Not that it doesn't have some moments...It was often said: What's wrong with CSNY is CN...I think they eventually DID get too slick and smooth and boring too--and incapable of reproducing that sound live... So let's get that straight--there was a real dividing line between 60s and 70s rock in that moment--and the lovers of the emerging 70s sound, younger than the likes of me nd tneding toward a sort of willed stoned sweetness, would support most of the blandest sounds of that decade many around here find as dull as I do. It was enough to carry you into hard core country and blues until the late 70s first punk arrvgal/revival! But that really doesn't mean the history of California country rock harmony is all sweetness and light. Barry
Re: California harmonies (was: Soul)
Barry Mazor wrote: Post-Byrds California style--and I can only say that LOTS of ol' rockers were fairly turned off by the "new"Crosby-dominated sound notions of CSN at the time, for the "blanding down" reasons raised . If you were a hardcore fan of the Band and Dylan and the Burrito Brothers and Let It Bleed Stones in 1968/69, you certainly were NOT necessarily in love with these developments at all! No shit. Now there's some stone countryrock. What promise!! Band/Dylan Burritos Stones. What the hell happened? The next thing I know, Im in some girl's dorm room with frangipani, patchouli, candles, indian prints and listening to CSN, Carol King, James Taylor and shudderThe Moody Blues. Then a bunch of mopey stuff by (I think I'll restrain myself here) certain popular f*lk singers. No wonder I wound up . (well that's another story). So let's get that straight--there was a real dividing line between 60s and 70s rock in that moment--and the lovers of the emerging 70s sound, younger than the likes of me nd tneding toward a sort of willed stoned sweetness, would support most of the blandest sounds of that decade many around here find as dull as I do. It was enough to carry you into hard core country and blues until the late 70s first punk arrvgal/revival! But that really doesn't mean the history of California country rock harmony is all sweetness and light. Barry testifies to the truth. I think I only listened to early Ray Price, Hank Williams and Muddy Waters etc. until well hell, 1996. Oh yah, and the Allmans etc. Rhythm Aces. Well there were some bright spots. Stuart npimh: Have you heard about the Midnight Rambler
