Frosting On The Beater(was re: criminally underappreciated albums of the '90s)
Jerry Curry wrote, re: my booming of FROSTING... Bill, No more"Can I get a witness?" requests for you. Aw Jerry, c'mon. If we pop-geeks can't close ranks we'll go the way of the dinosaur. g As for _Frosting._, I find the sonic dissonance (along, with the heinous masturbation reference of the title) to be damn near a betrayal of everything I thought the band was about. "heinous"? Shoot, everybody does it Jerry. g That record basically, made me lose a lot of faith in The Posies. Faith, I never ever fully recovered. You and many other people I've heard from, as I said. Funny, we were just talking about this very same subject on the Audities poplist but we could discuss it philosophically. And we can't? The consensus is that the Posies received so much grief about being "uncool" in a town enraptured with grunge, that they altered their sound. It's a real bitch when you dig a type of music that either 1) was never considered "cool" or 2) is now considered passe'. Well, my house-mate Dave's on that list and he sent me some of that. He sent a clip that I thought pretty effectively countered that "consensus", which I unfortunately don't have here at work. Here's a clip from Scott Miller, of Game Theory/Loud Family anonymity, that doesn't exactly speak for me, but says it well: The Posies probably shape my ongoing impression of '90s music more than any other group. I loved Nirvana, but to me most grunge bands seemed kind of purposefully backward-looking--a cross between early seventies Black Sabbath and mid-eighties abrasive hardcore stuff like Big Black. And nothing like "low-fi" or "electronica" or any of the hip-hop variations has struck my ears as being new and innovative. FROSTING ON THE BEATER is to my thinking a state-of-the-art record. It's the benchmark for that ultra-compressed '90s sound, which not everyone loves, but for better or worse nobody ever used to make records that sounded like that because the technology and the know-how just weren't there yet. Which is not to say it's just the production and mixing. They're extremely innovative with their guitar tunings, and the vocal harmonies are very sweet while at the same time having a sort of cinematic pathos to them. All their albums are terrific but that's the one that places them in my perception of history. I miss the Posies and hope to goodness, they one day reform and revisit those heady _Dear 23_ days. Well, I miss 'em too, and if it meant that I was stuck hearing DEAR 23 again, I think I could adjust, he said with tongue squarely in cheek. Sorry Bill, we'll have to chalk this one up to our rather severe "edgy pop" vs "lush pop" asthetic taste differences. Exactly. But we agree plenty too, and it's fun speaking the language. I know I broke off our engagement Jerry, but can't we still be friends? g b.s. n.p. Del McCoury Band- THE FAMILY (sure I finally bought it)
RE: Frosting On The Beater(was re: criminally underappreciated albums of the '90s)
Wow.. Best rant I read in a long time, Don. That's it, open up a can a whupass all over those popheads!
Re: Frosting On The Beater(was re: criminally underappreciated albums of the '90s)
Don Yates wrote: On Fri, 16 Apr 1999, William F. Silvers forwarded this: Here's a clip from Scott Miller, of Game Theory/Loud Family anonymity, that doesn't exactly speak for me, but says it well: Boy, I guess maybe I shoulda stood back just_a_bit further from this maybe? g And nothing like "low-fi" or "electronica" or any of the hip-hop variations has struck my ears as being new and innovative. I *knew* this sentence was a red flag. I didn't edit it out from my clip, though.I'd love to see you and Scott Miller debate it. Coupla pretty smart guys. But I don't hold this sentence up as my feelings on the matter. The guy's wrong. OK, that does it. Power pop has to be one of the most retrogressive rock styles imaginable. Most power pop bands pale in comparison to the old bands they obviously emulate and most often rip-off, the Beatles, Big Star, etc. Well, there's always a lot more mediocre or worse purveyors of whatever form than interesting ones."Retrogressive" or "rip-off" are value-loaded expressions, and it seems you don't place much value on this genre. I mean, aren't (to name just a few) Paul Burch or Wayne Hancock or Dale Watson or the Derailers (or most any bluegrass artist true to that genre) "retrogressive" or "rip-offs" by the same token? It doesn't surprise me that popheads like Scott Miller can't find anything new or innovative in hip hop, or in much anything else it seems besides his own little musical world. What's most hilarious is that *real* pop music left him in the dust decades ago. That's 'cuz -- unlike power poppers -- most folks have no problem appreciating modern black music. Jeez, talk about an insular musical universe -- most popheads act like black music doesn't even exist, or if it does, it's certainly not as "new and innovative" as their pasty-white Beatles imitations. Whatta buncha self-deluded nonsense. Hell, at least the Beatles knew that pop also encompassed black music (one important point that passes most power poppers by). No doubt, the genre is insular. I guess I don't see how that's necessarily a bad thing. I think folks play, or listen to, what pleases them aesthetically. Dismissing musical forms because they don't appeal much to you is a natural, if unadventurous, part of the process. And isn't that what you're doing with "power pop"? But yeah, Miller's been at it for 15-some years, two "different" bands, making records distinguishable from one another more to fans than anybody else. g His statement is pretty ignorant. Whether that's intentional or not I have no idea. As for the Posies, we always thought they were a buncha wussies up here in the NW, even when they pretended to "rock."--don Well, Marie, er, Don g, Mister "Midwest Pussy Boys", (a badge we're now wearing proudly, damn it!) I think the "power pop" genre in general, and the Posies in particular with their sweet, dreamy at times harmonies, invite this sort of macho bluster.And on the other hand folks like Jerry can't forgive 'em for cranking up and abandoning the "wussier" stuff. "Pretended to rock". Oh, whatever...g b.s. n.p. Dan Kibler CAPSULE
Re: Frosting On The Beater(was re: criminally underappreciated albums of the '90s)
On Fri, 16 Apr 1999, William F. Silvers wrote: Well, there's always a lot more mediocre or worse purveyors of whatever form than interesting ones."Retrogressive" or "rip-off" are value-loaded expressions, and it seems you don't place much value on this genre. I mean, aren't (to name just a few) Paul Burch or Wayne Hancock or Dale Watson or the Derailers (or most any bluegrass artist true to that genre) "retrogressive" or "rip-offs" by the same token? Well sure, but Miller was the one using "new and innovative" when he praised the Posies (the *Posies*, f'r chrissakes!) and slammed an entire genre of music -- one where you'll find plenty of examples of records that are a helluva lot more "new and innovative" than anything the backward-looking Posies ever did. I was mainly objecting to his ridiculous dismissal of hip hop as not "new and innovative" and thought I'd turn the tables on his silly argument. Besides, how in the hell could I have something against retro stuff -- I'm the guy in love with Mandy Barnett.g--don
