Re: BMI vs. ASCAP?
Flip a coin. I did BMI . . . -jim On 1 Apr 1999, Bill Gribble wrote: I give up trying to look at the applications and figure out which one is which. There are these songs, they are on a record, I want to collect the big $$$ when they break the Top 40, and I have no publishing affiliation... which one of these do I pick, and which forms do I fill out? Thanks, Bill Gribble
Re: BMI vs. ASCAP?
Bill Gribble wrote: I give up trying to look at the applications and figure out which one is which. There are these songs, they are on a record, I want to collect the big $$$ when they break the Top 40, and I have no publishing affiliation... which one of these do I pick, and which forms do I fill out? I seem to remember reading that it's hard to get into ASCAP unless you're a little more established, whereas BMI takes anyone. Take that with a grain of salt, tho, because I can't remember the source. Dave *** Dave Purcell, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Northern Ky Roots Music: http://w3.one.net/~newport Twangfest: http://www.twangfest.com
Re: BMI vs. ASCAP?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I give up trying to look at the applications and figure out which one is which. There are these songs, they are on a record, I want to collect the big $$$ when they break the Top 40, and I have no publishing affiliation... which one of these do I pick, and which forms do I fill out? Look at Bug Publishing (they are publishers AND administrators) b4 you go decide on the big guns. Very nice organization, tres cool roster and you won't get lost in the shuffle. Kate
RE: BMI vs. ASCAP?
BMI was created in large part because ASCAP refused to deal with composers in, ah, trailer park types of music - hillbilly, race, etc. That's why so much of the country stuff you see is BMI. On the other hand, ASCAP has a program already in place whose purpose is to compensate for under-reporting of airplay of niche music; a friend of mine who's ASCAP has reported actually getting some pretty decent checks after submitting materials to this program. So at the moment, there may actually be a slight advantage in going ASCAP. All this is assuming that you don't do much co-writing with affiliated writers. In those cases, writers/publishers typically create two entities, one to register with each; that way, they can get a song handled by just one agency where there are multiple credits. Jon Weisberger Kenton County, KY [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.fuse.net/jonweisberger/
Re: BMI vs. ASCAP?
At 06:23 PM 4/1/99 -0600, you wrote: I give up trying to look at the applications and figure out which one is which. There are these songs, they are on a record, I want to collect the big $$$ when they break the Top 40, and I have no publishing affiliation... which one of these do I pick, and which forms do I fill out? Thanks, Bill Gribble Well here is another one for you. SESAC recognizes air play reported from the radio stations on the Americana panel. You should contact Dennis Lord over there he is a good guy and very hip to the alternative country scene. His email address is [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hope this helps you. Tiffany Suiters
RE: BMI vs. ASCAP?
-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Tiffany SuitersSent: Friday, April 02, 1999 10:37 AMTo: passenger sideSubject: Re: BMI vs. ASCAP? At 06:23 PM 4/1/99 -0600, you wrote:I give up trying to look at the applications and figure out which oneis which. There are these songs, they are on a record, I want tocollect the big $$$ when they break the Top 40, and I have nopublishing affiliation... which one of these do I pick, and whichforms do I fill out? Man, this is a no brainer. Just look at all your favorite records and see who your top ten chose g. You're going to get ripped off anyway, at least do it in good company. Nicholas
Re: BMI vs. ASCAP?
Dave Purcell wrote: I seem to remember reading that it's hard to get into ASCAP unless you're a little more established, whereas BMI takes anyone. I don't think that is true. They both take anybody with the dough to sign up. The history of the two is this: ASCAP was the original New York group, Broadway, Tin Pan Alley, etc. In the old days (40s) they had become snooty and Establishment. This is no longer in any sense true, and they now actively recruit all comers. BMI arose as a response to this elitism, formed by the Nashville and rock roll cadre, who found working with ASCAP a pain because they were looked down upon. As I recall, perhaps wrongly, BMI was also the first rights org. to collect radio airplay royalties. SESAC I know nothing about. Each of them will tell you they pay the best, most promptly, etc, but as far as I can tell there is very little, if any, difference between them, results-wise. (BTW, none of this has anything whatsoever to do with publishing. Bug Music is a publisher. BMI and ASCAP are "performing rights societies" which serve as collection agencies for performance royalties only, send them to the publishers and writers, and deduct 1% of your royalties to pay their overhead. In order to collect "mechanical royalties", or money from record sales, you either have to have a publisher, be your own publisher, or at least register yourself with the Harry Fox Agency (they have a website) in order to collect your mechanicals.) -- Joe Gracey President-For-Life, Jackalope Records http://www.kimmierhodes.com
more info Re: BMI vs. ASCAP?
Joe writes: (BTW, none of this has anything whatsoever to do with publishing. Bug Music is a publisher. BMI and ASCAP are "performing rights societies" which serve as collection agencies for performance royalties only, send them to the publishers and writers, and deduct 1% of your royalties to pay their overhead. In order to collect "mechanical royalties", or money from record sales, you either have to have a publisher, be your own publisher, or at least register yourself with the Harry Fox Agency (they have a website) in order to collect your mechanicals.) ...which is why BUG is so cool, they do BOTH! And, it was started as a result of Del Shannon was getting screwed "royalty" and Dan Burgoise stepped up to the plate and "found" him millions owed from all over. Including cash for Runaway! Read their story, it's a good 'un! http://www.bugmusic.com/charmart.html Here's some from an interview that originally appeared in HITS October 16, 1995: In 1975, they hatched the idea for Bug Music, aiming to take advantage of a vacuum in the publishing world, and haven't had one regret until they had to sit for an hour with... -WHAT VOID DID YOU SEE IN THE PUBLISHING BUSINESS IN 1975 THAT INSPIRED YOU TO START BUG? Dan- At that point a lot of singer/songwriters had stopped going to publishers because attorneys had come up with the concept of 'keep your own copyrights, but let us administer them here. Who needs publishers?' Meantime, publishers still provided valuable and important services, but had grown stodgy and old and were resting on their laurels, so all the new stuff was being administered by law offices, who did the paperwork but none of the creative functions. So what Bug music became was a blending of the two things - taking the creativity and energy of the publisher and combining it with the lower-based fees and allowing writers to keep their own copyrights. It became attractive and writers started telling writers. It turned out to be a good idea. Kate
Re: more info Re: BMI vs. ASCAP?
At 02:22 PM 4/2/99 , [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Joe writes: (BTW, none of this has anything whatsoever to do with publishing. Bug Music is a publisher. BMI and ASCAP are "performing rights societies" which serve as collection agencies for performance royalties only, send them to the publishers and writers, and deduct 1% of your royalties to pay their overhead. In order to collect "mechanical royalties", or money from record sales, you either have to have a publisher, be your own publisher, or at least register yourself with the Harry Fox Agency (they have a website) in order to collect your mechanicals.) ...which is why BUG is so cool, they do BOTH! Well, they both publish and administer - which is to act on behalf of a publisher, following up with BMI, ASCAP, the HFA, etc. to collect royalties that these agencies have collected, and also, as the interview notes, to pitch songs and other publishing-type activities for folks who are their own publishers but don't have the inclination or ability to do those things, but Bug does not directly collect performance and mechanical royalties. Jon Weisberger Kenton County, KY [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.fuse.net/jonweisberger/
RE: BMI vs. ASCAP?
Sorry if I missed it if it was posted, but could someone post the web address for Bug? I've always wondered about them and this thread has made me want to find our more about it... Thanks, --junior
Re: more info Re: BMI vs. ASCAP?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Well, they both publish and administer - which is to act on behalf of a publisher, following up with BMI, ASCAP, the HFA, etc. to collect royalties that these agencies have collected, and also, as the interview notes, to pitch songs and other publishing-type activities for folks who are their own publishers but don't have the inclination or ability to do those things, but Bug does not directly collect performance and mechanical royalties. got it! So, Bill, have we made your decision any easierg??? K.
Re: BMI vs. ASCAP?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Sorry if I missed it if it was posted, but could someone post the web address for Bug? I've always wondered about them and this thread has made me want to find our more about it... Thanks, --junior Here it is: http://www.bugmusic.com/ Kate
RE: BMI vs. ASCAP?
Sorry if I missed it if it was posted, but could someone post the web address for Bug? http://www.bugmusic.com . Be forewarned that the front page leads off with a news item about Bug artists The Dixie Chicks. Jon Weisberger Kenton County, KY [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.fuse.net/jonweisberger/
Re: BMI vs. ASCAP?
What Joe said. This is my understanding too. You pay the fee they collect the royalties. Which is why (in the 1990's-2000's) I say flip a coin. And yes Bug is a publisher . . . -jim On Fri, 2 Apr 1999, Joe Gracey wrote: Dave Purcell wrote: I seem to remember reading that it's hard to get into ASCAP unless you're a little more established, whereas BMI takes anyone. I don't think that is true. They both take anybody with the dough to sign up. The history of the two is this: ASCAP was the original New York group, Broadway, Tin Pan Alley, etc. In the old days (40s) they had become snooty and Establishment. This is no longer in any sense true, and they now actively recruit all comers. BMI arose as a response to this elitism, formed by the Nashville and rock roll cadre, who found working with ASCAP a pain because they were looked down upon. As I recall, perhaps wrongly, BMI was also the first rights org. to collect radio airplay royalties. SESAC I know nothing about. Each of them will tell you they pay the best, most promptly, etc, but as far as I can tell there is very little, if any, difference between them, results-wise. (BTW, none of this has anything whatsoever to do with publishing. Bug Music is a publisher. BMI and ASCAP are "performing rights societies" which serve as collection agencies for performance royalties only, send them to the publishers and writers, and deduct 1% of your royalties to pay their overhead. In order to collect "mechanical royalties", or money from record sales, you either have to have a publisher, be your own publisher, or at least register yourself with the Harry Fox Agency (they have a website) in order to collect your mechanicals.) -- Joe Gracey President-For-Life, Jackalope Records http://www.kimmierhodes.com
RE: BMI vs. ASCAP?
Well, here's an interesting observation of differences between ASCAP and BMI, with the caution that it is now two years old, and things may have changed since then; I've removed names but the gist is pretty clear. After spending a better part of my Sunday morning reading the posts from the past on ASCAP, I felt compelled to write about what I consider a dilemma. X and I write songs together. When we began publishing them, ten years ago, we were asked which "society" we would like to belong to, ASCAP or BMI. Since X had already been affiliated with BMI, he chose to stay with them. I decided, as an experiment, to affiliate with ASCAP. Now, ten years later, we can compare our income from song writing. Mind you, we've had no "hits" other than bluegrass covers, and songs from our own albums. Time after time we receive "regrets, no air play" in US royalties, and a trickling of royalties from foreign countries, but over the years, we have seen a trend. Through ASCAP I make about one third more than X The reason why is because ASCAP offers an award to it's members who can attest that their material is being played on radio (such as college and public stations that aren't monitored) but they are not collecting on these songs. Each quarter I receive $115.00 award money. BMI doesn't really monitor college station either, and they don't give awards. Again, I caution that this may not be the current situation. On the other hand, it may be, and if so, it might make a difference to some folks. Jon Weisberger Kenton County, KY [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.fuse.net/jonweisberger/
Re: more info Re: BMI vs. ASCAP?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Joe writes: (BTW, none of this has anything whatsoever to do with publishing. Bug Music is a publisher. BMI and ASCAP are "performing rights societies" which serve as collection agencies for performance royalties only, send them to the publishers and writers, and deduct 1% of your royalties to pay their overhead. In order to collect "mechanical royalties", or money from record sales, you either have to have a publisher, be your own publisher, or at least register yourself with the Harry Fox Agency (they have a website) in order to collect your mechanicals.) ...which is why BUG is so cool, they do BOTH! All publishers do both. However, you still have to register your songs with BMI or ASCAP. -- Joe Gracey President-For-Life, Jackalope Records http://www.kimmierhodes.com
Re: BMI vs. ASCAP?
In a message dated 4/2/99 9:15:40 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: There are these songs, they are on a record, I want to collect the big $$$ when they break the Top 40, and I have no publishing affiliation... which one of these do I pick, and which forms do I fill out? BMI is free to join, but may pay a little less in royalties. I believe they deduct 3.6% for administrative fees. Call them at (615)401-2000 and they will send you the forms needed. tell them how many songs you want to publish, as it's one song /form. Slim
Re: BMI vs. ASCAP?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: BMI is free to join, but may pay a little less in royalties. I believe they deduct 3.6% for administrative fees. 1% -- Joe Gracey President-For-Life, Jackalope Records http://www.kimmierhodes.com
Re: BMI vs. ASCAP?
-Original Message- From: Jon Weisberger [EMAIL PROTECTED] Through ASCAP I make about one third more than X The reason why is because ASCAP offers an award to it's members who can attest that their material is being played on radio (such as college and public stations that aren't monitored) but they are not collecting on these songs. Each quarter I receive $115.00 award money. BMI doesn't really monitor college station either, and they don't give awards. Again, I caution that this may not be the current situation. On the other hand, it may be, and if so, it might make a difference to some folks. Jon..I can attest to that...even though the Ignitors record charted among the top 25 on the Gavin Americana charts, and we had quite a bit of airplay, royalties were nil. We did however apply to the ASCAP awards panel and now I get a quarterly check which justs covers my dues and then some..better than nothing. Also, I got a decent (I hope) health insurance policy through them. And it doesn't matter which office or which V.P. you call when you need then, they always return the call...Hell, they even came to our show in Nashville. Chris House Ignitors
Re: BMI vs. ASCAP?
Chris, Glad that your record did so well and that you are a member in good standing with ASCAP and that they even came to your show in Nashville...I still don't like you! Does "Salty Dog" still make Norm cry? Andy Tanas Ignitor wrote: -Original Message- From: Jon Weisberger [EMAIL PROTECTED] Through ASCAP I make about one third more than X The reason why is because ASCAP offers an award to it's members who can attest that their material is being played on radio (such as college and public stations that aren't monitored) but they are not collecting on these songs. Each quarter I receive $115.00 award money. BMI doesn't really monitor college station either, and they don't give awards. Again, I caution that this may not be the current situation. On the other hand, it may be, and if so, it might make a difference to some folks. Jon..I can attest to that...even though the Ignitors record charted among the top 25 on the Gavin Americana charts, and we had quite a bit of airplay, royalties were nil. We did however apply to the ASCAP awards panel and now I get a quarterly check which justs covers my dues and then some..better than nothing. Also, I got a decent (I hope) health insurance policy through them. And it doesn't matter which office or which V.P. you call when you need then, they always return the call...Hell, they even came to our show in Nashville. Chris House Ignitors
Re: BMI vs. ASCAP?
In a message dated 4/2/99 6:47:01 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: BMI is free to join, but may pay a little less in royalties. I believe they deduct 3.6% for administrative fees. 1% Hmmm. my last statement says 3.6%. Thieving bastards. BTW, what's 3.6% of $5.58? To quote Tom Waits: " The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away." Slim
