[pfx] Re: REJECT sending mails to no-reply accounts
On Thu, Jun 20, 2024 at 01:02:36PM -0400, postfix--- via Postfix-users wrote: > > Then you can not use this e-mail address as envelope sender. People > > will do sender callout and then reject all e-mail with this as sender. > An option is to have noreply@ delivered to /dev/null. It's valid and a trash > can. No, you need to handle bounces and those are sent to the envelope sender. Bastian -- War is never imperative. -- McCoy, "Balance of Terror", stardate 1709.2 ___ Postfix-users mailing list -- postfix-users@postfix.org To unsubscribe send an email to postfix-users-le...@postfix.org
[pfx] Re: REJECT sending mails to no-reply accounts
Is an automated/unattended email notifying the user about something, providing proper ways of contacting. As this email is not read in any way, rejecting the mail would be a better way to handle than an automatic response. IMHO. Then you can not use this e-mail address as envelope sender. People will do sender callout and then reject all e-mail with this as sender. An option is to have noreply@ delivered to /dev/null. It's valid and a trash can. ___ Postfix-users mailing list -- postfix-users@postfix.org To unsubscribe send an email to postfix-users-le...@postfix.org
[pfx] Re: REJECT sending mails to no-reply accounts
Dnia 20.06.2024 o godz. 09:08:39 Bastian Blank via Postfix-users pisze: > Then you can not use this e-mail address as envelope sender. People > will do sender callout and then reject all e-mail with this as sender. Sender callout is discouraged now, because it is considered aggressive behavior by most mail providers, and if you routinely do sender callout, you may end up being blacklisted and having trouble when sending email yourself. I personally don't agree with this, but this is the position most mail server operators are taking now. -- Regards, Jaroslaw Rafa r...@rafa.eu.org -- "In a million years, when kids go to school, they're gonna know: once there was a Hushpuppy, and she lived with her daddy in the Bathtub." ___ Postfix-users mailing list -- postfix-users@postfix.org To unsubscribe send an email to postfix-users-le...@postfix.org
[pfx] Re: REJECT sending mails to no-reply accounts
Dnia 20.06.2024 o godz. 08:51:33 Alexander Leidinger via Postfix-users pisze: > > This implies that the organization / company is willing to spend > money on having someone available to actually respond / provide > support. For a lot of the use cases I would say even a mail to > ticket system gateway is out of the willingness to spend money on. > So any technical solution you can propose here, will be way out of > the area of interest of those people which will make those > decisions. They should not be *sending* any mail then. Simple enough? -- Regards, Jaroslaw Rafa r...@rafa.eu.org -- "In a million years, when kids go to school, they're gonna know: once there was a Hushpuppy, and she lived with her daddy in the Bathtub." ___ Postfix-users mailing list -- postfix-users@postfix.org To unsubscribe send an email to postfix-users-le...@postfix.org
[pfx] Re: REJECT sending mails to no-reply accounts
* Tan Mientras via Postfix-users: > Is an automated/unattended email notifying the user about something, > providing proper ways of contacting. "Proper" is for the recipients of your messages to be able to use the reply function in their MUA, to ask for clarification/assistance in regards to the message you sent to them. > As this email is not read in any way, rejecting the mail would be a > better way to handle than an automatic response. IMHO. The better way, as you put it, would be a process where there is not merely an automatic response, but having replies read/answered by somebody in your organisation. Ticket tracking systems can be used if scaling is an issue. In my opinion, rejecting replies to email communication your organisation initiated shows similarities to a drive-by-shooting, in the broad sense that your organisation hopes to "get the message out" but avoid the consequences of their actions. This is of course a dramatic comparison, not to be taken literally. -Ralph ___ Postfix-users mailing list -- postfix-users@postfix.org To unsubscribe send an email to postfix-users-le...@postfix.org
[pfx] Re: REJECT sending mails to no-reply accounts
Then you can not use this e-mail address as envelope sender. People will do sender callout and then reject all e-mail with this as sender. On 20.06.24 11:22, Tan Mientras via Postfix-users wrote: Sorry. Im lost in translation. Could you elaborate/ELI5? This address is not and will never receiveread any messages. Is an automated message to notify users they must change their password. there are servers that do sender verification. They will join your server and if you reject mail for that address, they will reject mail from that address. If you want to send mail from an address, make sure that address is deliverable. -- Matus UHLAR - fantomas, uh...@fantomas.sk ; http://www.fantomas.sk/ Warning: I wish NOT to receive e-mail advertising to this address. Varovanie: na tuto adresu chcem NEDOSTAVAT akukolvek reklamnu postu. There's a long-standing bug relating to the x86 architecture that allows you to install Windows. -- Matthew D. Fuller ___ Postfix-users mailing list -- postfix-users@postfix.org To unsubscribe send an email to postfix-users-le...@postfix.org
[pfx] Re: REJECT sending mails to no-reply accounts
> > Then you can not use this e-mail address as envelope sender. People > will do sender callout and then reject all e-mail with this as sender. > Sorry. Im lost in translation. Could you elaborate/ELI5? This address is not and will never receiveread any messages. Is an automated message to notify users they must change their password. ___ Postfix-users mailing list -- postfix-users@postfix.org To unsubscribe send an email to postfix-users-le...@postfix.org
[pfx] Re: REJECT sending mails to no-reply accounts
On Thu, Jun 20, 2024 at 07:47:19AM +0200, Tan Mientras via Postfix-users wrote: > @Ralph > Is an automated/unattended email notifying the user about something, > providing proper ways of contacting. As this email is not read in any way, > rejecting the mail would be a better way to handle than an automatic > response. IMHO. Then you can not use this e-mail address as envelope sender. People will do sender callout and then reject all e-mail with this as sender. Bastian -- Witch! Witch! They'll burn ya! -- Hag, "Tomorrow is Yesterday", stardate unknown ___ Postfix-users mailing list -- postfix-users@postfix.org To unsubscribe send an email to postfix-users-le...@postfix.org
[pfx] Re: REJECT sending mails to no-reply accounts
Am 2024-06-20 08:21, schrieb Peter via Postfix-users: On 20/06/24 17:47, Tan Mientras via Postfix-users wrote: So many replies! @Ralph Is an automated/unattended email notifying the user about something, providing proper ways of contacting. As this email is not read in any way, rejecting the mail would be a better way to handle than an automatic response. IMHO. A better way would be to set the From: address to someone that will actually respond from your organization (e.g. info@, help@, etc). This implies that the organization / company is willing to spend money on having someone available to actually respond / provide support. For a lot of the use cases I would say even a mail to ticket system gateway is out of the willingness to spend money on. So any technical solution you can propose here, will be way out of the area of interest of those people which will make those decisions. Bye, Alexander. -- http://www.Leidinger.net alexan...@leidinger.net: PGP 0x8F31830F9F2772BF http://www.FreeBSD.orgnetch...@freebsd.org : PGP 0x8F31830F9F2772BF signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Postfix-users mailing list -- postfix-users@postfix.org To unsubscribe send an email to postfix-users-le...@postfix.org
[pfx] Re: REJECT sending mails to no-reply accounts
On 20/06/24 17:47, Tan Mientras via Postfix-users wrote: So many replies! @Ralph Is an automated/unattended email notifying the user about something, providing proper ways of contacting. As this email is not read in any way, rejecting the mail would be a better way to handle than an automatic response. IMHO. A better way would be to set the From: address to someone that will actually respond from your organization (e.g. info@, help@, etc). @Peter My /etc/postfix/no-reply_reject contains lines like: do-not-re...@domain.tld REJECT This mailbox is not attended/read. Do not reply to this email. This should work unless you have ldap users that return a permit or OK action. Peter ___ Postfix-users mailing list -- postfix-users@postfix.org To unsubscribe send an email to postfix-users-le...@postfix.org
[pfx] Re: REJECT sending mails to no-reply accounts
Got some news! When sending emails from my domain (to my domain), rejection IS applied (and message displayed to the client MUA) When sending emails from Office365, rejection is shown in the logs, but message is considered sent for the client (no message) Is this meaningful for you? On Thu, Jun 20, 2024 at 7:47 AM Tan Mientras wrote: > So many replies! > > @Ralph > Is an automated/unattended email notifying the user about something, > providing proper ways of contacting. As this email is not read in any way, > rejecting the mail would be a better way to handle than an automatic > response. IMHO. > > @Peter > My /etc/postfix/no-reply_reject contains lines like: > do-not-re...@domain.tld REJECT This mailbox is not attended/read. Do not > reply to this email. > > Regards > ___ Postfix-users mailing list -- postfix-users@postfix.org To unsubscribe send an email to postfix-users-le...@postfix.org
[pfx] Re: REJECT sending mails to no-reply accounts
So many replies! @Ralph Is an automated/unattended email notifying the user about something, providing proper ways of contacting. As this email is not read in any way, rejecting the mail would be a better way to handle than an automatic response. IMHO. @Peter My /etc/postfix/no-reply_reject contains lines like: do-not-re...@domain.tld REJECT This mailbox is not attended/read. Do not reply to this email. Regards ___ Postfix-users mailing list -- postfix-users@postfix.org To unsubscribe send an email to postfix-users-le...@postfix.org
[pfx] Re: REJECT sending mails to no-reply accounts
On 20/06/24 04:35, John Levine via Postfix-users wrote: It appears that Peter via Postfix-users said: On 19/06/24 18:51, Tan Mientras via Postfix-users wrote: Hi *Trying to setup email REJECT when users try to send to a no-reply email.* There is no such thing as a no-reply email, there is no part of the email specification that allows a message to be marked as unable to be replied to. You might want to take a look at RFCs 7504 and 7505. Those discuss means by which an entire domain or server can be set to not accept mail. I'm referring to setting the envelope sender and/or From: header in a message to an invalid address which is questionable at best and disallowed by RFC at worst. IRT the Envelope sender see RFC 5321 4.5.5 where it says: "All other types of messages (i.e., any message which is not required by a Standards-Track RFC to have a null reverse-path) SHOULD be sent with a *valid* (emphasis added), non-null reverse-path." In this case "reverse-path" is a reference to the envelope sender. For the From: header RFC5322 3.6.2 says: "In all cases, the "From:" field SHOULD NOT contain any mailbox that does not belong to the author(s) of the message." ...which at the very least strongly suggests that the mailbox should be valid. I do agree that sending mail you can't reply to is rude, regardless of the technical details. Indeed, and how difficult is it for these companies to set it to a help@ or info@ mailbox anyways? Peter ___ Postfix-users mailing list -- postfix-users@postfix.org To unsubscribe send an email to postfix-users-le...@postfix.org
[pfx] Re: REJECT sending mails to no-reply accounts
Ralph Seichter via Postfix-users: > * Ansgar Wiechers via Postfix-users: > > > [...] > > Did I ever send mail to you using the mailing list address you got > barred from targeting, or send mail to you at all from my servers? No, > I did not. > > You tried to initiate communication by sending mail to an address you > had no reason to contact, this being a mailing list, and you were thus > redirected to a page explaining how you could ask for permission to send > to said protected address in case you had a legitimate reason to (which > you don't). I have also provided an unrestricted email address so > anybody can send mail to in order to ask for clearance for the protected > address, something which you didn't do. > > All this is nothing like using a no-reply address, which is easy enough > to understand. TL;DR: Apples and oranges. > > > Guess what just happened to horus-it.com on my mail server. > > Go on, guess if I care. :-) No, don't. Please take this off-list. Wietse ___ Postfix-users mailing list -- postfix-users@postfix.org To unsubscribe send an email to postfix-users-le...@postfix.org
[pfx] Re: REJECT sending mails to no-reply accounts
* Ansgar Wiechers via Postfix-users: > [...] Did I ever send mail to you using the mailing list address you got barred from targeting, or send mail to you at all from my servers? No, I did not. You tried to initiate communication by sending mail to an address you had no reason to contact, this being a mailing list, and you were thus redirected to a page explaining how you could ask for permission to send to said protected address in case you had a legitimate reason to (which you don't). I have also provided an unrestricted email address so anybody can send mail to in order to ask for clearance for the protected address, something which you didn't do. All this is nothing like using a no-reply address, which is easy enough to understand. TL;DR: Apples and oranges. > Guess what just happened to horus-it.com on my mail server. Go on, guess if I care. :-) -Ralph ___ Postfix-users mailing list -- postfix-users@postfix.org To unsubscribe send an email to postfix-users-le...@postfix.org
[pfx] Re: REJECT sending mails to no-reply accounts
It appears that Peter via Postfix-users said: >On 19/06/24 18:51, Tan Mientras via Postfix-users wrote: >> Hi >> >> *Trying to setup email REJECT when users try to send to a no-reply email.* > >There is no such thing as a no-reply email, there is no part of the >email specification that allows a message to be marked as unable to be >replied to. You might want to take a look at RFCs 7504 and 7505. I do agree that sending mail you can't reply to is rude, regardless of the technical details. R's, John ___ Postfix-users mailing list -- postfix-users@postfix.org To unsubscribe send an email to postfix-users-le...@postfix.org
[pfx] Re: REJECT sending mails to no-reply accounts
On 2024-06-19 Ralph Seichter via Postfix-users wrote: > * Bjoern Franke via Postfix-users: > > > From: Ralph Seichter via Postfix-users > > Reply-To: Ralph Seichter > > Dang, blindsided by Mailman 3, sorry. What I wrote about my dislike of > using "nore...@foo.bar" type addresses remains unchanged, however. If > sender A sends mail to recipient B, A needs to be prepared to receive a > response from B. Proper email communiction is not a hit-and-run. Umm... yeah. Let's see ... | : host ra.horus-it.com[65.108.3.114] said: 451 4.7.1 | Policy violation; see https://www.horus-it.com/policy3/?S=5 (in reply to | end of DATA command) Quoting from that page: | What does it mean? | | The owner of address name@example.domain has decided to only accept | correspondence from a list of known contacts, which is usually done to | counter address harvesting, and your sender address was rejected | because it is not a member of said list. | | How can I register as a contact? | | If you have a legitimate reason to send email to this particular | recipient address, please write to postmaster@example.domain first. | State the full sender and recipient addresses, and explain why you | require clearance. If the recipient agrees to accept your request, you | will usually receive a notification within two working days. Oh, well. Guess what just happened to horus-it.com on my mail server. Regards Ansgar Wiechers -- "Abstractions save us time working, but they don't save us time learning." --Joel Spolsky ___ Postfix-users mailing list -- postfix-users@postfix.org To unsubscribe send an email to postfix-users-le...@postfix.org
[pfx] Re: REJECT sending mails to no-reply accounts
* Bjoern Franke via Postfix-users: > From: Ralph Seichter via Postfix-users > Reply-To: Ralph Seichter Dang, blindsided by Mailman 3, sorry. What I wrote about my dislike of using "nore...@foo.bar" type addresses remains unchanged, however. If sender A sends mail to recipient B, A needs to be prepared to receive a response from B. Proper email communiction is not a hit-and-run. -Ralph ___ Postfix-users mailing list -- postfix-users@postfix.org To unsubscribe send an email to postfix-users-le...@postfix.org
[pfx] Re: REJECT sending mails to no-reply accounts
Gary R. Schmidt via Postfix-users: [reply-to header] > He didn't do it - it's being added by Mailman. Whether by default or > deliberately I do not know. This is damage control for DMARC. The mailing list address goes in the From: header, and the poster's email address goes in Reply-To: so that list members can still choose between replying to the poster or to the list. Wietse ___ Postfix-users mailing list -- postfix-users@postfix.org To unsubscribe send an email to postfix-users-le...@postfix.org
[pfx] Re: REJECT sending mails to no-reply accounts
On 19/06/2024 18:19, Bjoern Franke via Postfix-users wrote: Hi, Personally, I find this type of one-way communication annoying and impolite. The same goes for setting Reply-To to your personal email address after asking for help on a public mailing list. Like you did yourself? From: Ralph Seichter via Postfix-users Reply-To: Ralph Seichter He didn't do it - it's being added by Mailman. Whether by default or deliberately I do not know. And I have to apologise to whoever it was I told off previously for doing it, sorry. Cheers, GaryB-) ___ Postfix-users mailing list -- postfix-users@postfix.org To unsubscribe send an email to postfix-users-le...@postfix.org
[pfx] Re: REJECT sending mails to no-reply accounts
Hi, Personally, I find this type of one-way communication annoying and impolite. The same goes for setting Reply-To to your personal email address after asking for help on a public mailing list. Like you did yourself? From: Ralph Seichter via Postfix-users Reply-To: Ralph Seichter Regards Bjoern ___ Postfix-users mailing list -- postfix-users@postfix.org To unsubscribe send an email to postfix-users-le...@postfix.org
[pfx] Re: REJECT sending mails to no-reply accounts
On 19/06/24 18:51, Tan Mientras via Postfix-users wrote: Hi *Trying to setup email REJECT when users try to send to a no-reply email.* There is no such thing as a no-reply email, there is no part of the email specification that allows a message to be marked as unable to be replied to. Many people think they can send a no-reply message by setting the localpart of the From: header to "no-reply" "noreply" or similar but this is not part of any official specification, nor does it prevent someone from replying to that email address. All that is said because no-re...@example.com could be a perfectly valid email address fully capable of accepting messages, and as such you might want to re-think your policy of blocking messages to such addresses. Note that if the mailbox is truly invalid then the receiving MX should issue an appropriate rejection which your server can then pass back to the user in the form of a DSN (bounce message). AFAIK, this should be configuren on smtpd_recipient_restrictions using check_recipient_access. Please, let me know if I'm wrong. Yes that can be used to reject messages to recipients that match a certain pattern in the recipient's address, one such pattern being any address with a local part of "noreply". It's not working, so maybe it's because I don't know if rules are applied on first match or combined (ie: if a reject is found, is immediately rejected or it might be permited by another rule). Rules are checked in the order they are encountered with the first permit or reject stopping the checks of that particular restrictions. This is /approximately/ my configuration: smtpd_recipient_restrictions = check_recipient_access ldap:ext2int, #allows any ldap account If this returns OK or permit then the following rule will not be checked. check_recipient_access hash:/etc/postfix/no-reply_reject, #reject no-reply What this does will depend on the content of /etc/postfix/no-reply_reject (which you did not show). reject_authenticated_sender_login_mismatch, permit_sasl_authenticated, This will stop processing if the user is authenticated and permit the message. reject_unauth_destination, This rule is redundant, because it can only either reject or fall down to the next rule reject ...which will always reject, so the last two rules will always reject regardless. Peter ___ Postfix-users mailing list -- postfix-users@postfix.org To unsubscribe send an email to postfix-users-le...@postfix.org
[pfx] Re: REJECT sending mails to no-reply accounts
* Tan Mientras via Postfix-users: > Trying to setup email REJECT when users try to send to a no-reply > email. Personally, I find this type of one-way communication annoying and impolite. The same goes for setting Reply-To to your personal email address after asking for help on a public mailing list. -Ralph ___ Postfix-users mailing list -- postfix-users@postfix.org To unsubscribe send an email to postfix-users-le...@postfix.org
