Re: 8.6 installation problems

[Paul Nelson]

>I guess that would work-the only problem is that the 6 gig drive I put in
>has no OS on it. I have a SCSI CD drive. How would the SCSI CD drive work?
>There would be no drivers  available for it.
>John

I suppose you've formatted the drive?  CD-ROM Toolkit will do
nicely for your drive, if it isn't an Apple.  The CD should be a abootable
one, so just hold down the c key and boot.
Paul



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Re: 8.6 installation problems

[Andrew Kershaw]

>  > I guess that would work-the only problem is that the 6 gig drive I put in
>>  has no OS on it. I have a SCSI CD drive. How would the SCSI CD drive work?
>>  There would be no drivers available for it.
>>  John
>>
>I've been able to start up a dead mac from a 3rd party SCSI CD-rom drive
>before. I have a feeling that once the Mac is desperate to start-up, i.e.,
>no HD, no apple brand CD-ROM, no floppy etc, then it will take just about
>ANY kind of system disk to run. I say that, because it only started up from
>it when the HD had no system folder on it. Once that was installed, it
>refused to start off the cd anymore.
>
>Hope this helps,
>
>--
>John

Hmm.

See Dan K's thread of a couple weeks ago about CD-ROMs for details.

Any SCSI CD (assuming no termination or SCSI-ID conflicts) is 
bootable with a bootable CD-ROM inserted.  Put the CD in the tray, 
boot the Mac holding Apple-Option-Shift-Delete, and presto.

CD-ROMs without specific firmware on the drive will not be 
recognizable by the standard Mac OS CD/DVD Driver extension. 
Inserting a disk into such a drive attached to a booted Mac will have 
no results.  A 3rd party driver or hacked Apple driver is required.

However, all CD-ROMs are bootable devices IF they have a valid 
bootable CD inserted and you force the computer to boot off a SCSI 
device.

The Apple-Option-Shift-Delete command at boot tells the Mac to scan 
the SCSI bus for the first bootable volume it sees.  It will start at 
ID 0 and work to ID 6.  If you have two boot volumes (say on ID 0 and 
ID 3), you can specify which to start from by holding 
Apple-Option-Shift-Delete-.  ID 3 would be 
Apple-Option-Shift-Delete-3.

If you have more than one bootable partition on the device, it will 
start from the first recognized partition with a boot sector.

The Mac's ROM tells it to look for a bootable device in the following manner:

Check the PRAM for the boot device and try booting from it.
If that fails, then...

Look on floppy 1
Look on floppy 2 (if available)
Look on SCSI bus 0, ID 0, partition 0
Look on SCSI bus 0, ID 0, partition 1
...
Look on SCSI bus 0, ID 1
...
Look on SCSI bus 0, ID 6
Look on SCSI bus 1, ID 0
... (etc)
Look on IDE channel 0, device 0
Look on IDE channel 0, device 1 (on Macs with master/slave support)
Look on IDE channel 1, device 0...
...
Look on USB/FireWire (not sure how the boot sequence works here - 
only supported on late model macs)

If no boot device is found, flash the floppy and question mark on the screen.

There is also some other procedure for net booting, but that's also 
only on late model macs.

I'm also not sure where RAM disk booting fits in this picture, but 
I'd guess they are only bootable if you specify it in the PRAM (using 
the Startup Disk control panel or something).


Peace,
Drew


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Re: 8.6 installation problems

[k]

>
>  >All advice is extremely welcome
>>Thanks
>>John Ryan
>
>   SCSI CD-ROMs are pretty cheap, now.  Isn't that the best way to go?
>Paul


  NO Paul!  - that is absolutely NOT the best easiest and cheapest 
way to go - I have solved the problem in the wee morning hours  - and 
tried it on my PM 7300 -
I choose as a  startdisk scsi disk with a copy of the installercd on it -
the same problem  occured here !  (as I sort of  knew from long ago)
then I made a 8.5 DISK TOOLS disk from the installer cd, started up 
from the floppy and started the OS installer now placed on the hd,
and installed a new system (! YOU HAVE TOchoose in alternative/-> 
create a new systemfolder, otherwise it will just update the existing 
one and the same error will occur) onto the same hd using. AND IT 
WORKED FLAWLESS and IN THE SAME AMOUNT OF TIME as if I would have 
installed from the CD!
all you need is a floppystation, and a disktools disk (8.5)
it from the install cd or apple.com, maybe a friend could copy it for you ?
I see now reason why it should not work on a PB ? and - you don't 
need to make anything bigger than just the basic systemfolder the in 
the first go - you can add on later librairys and programs - and 
install a fullsize system starting from the HD.

kenta

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Re: 8.6 installation problems

[John Smith]

>> 
>> SCSI CD-ROMs are pretty cheap, now.  Isn't that the best way to go?
>> Paul
>> 
>> 
> I guess that would work-the only problem is that the 6 gig drive I put in
> has no OS on it. I have a SCSI CD drive. How would the SCSI CD drive work?
> There would be no drivers  available for it.
> John
> 
I've been able to start up a dead mac from a 3rd party SCSI CD-rom drive
before. I have a feeling that once the Mac is desperate to start-up, i.e.,
no HD, no apple brand CD-ROM, no floppy etc, then it will take just about
ANY kind of system disk to run. I say that, because it only started up from
it when the HD had no system folder on it. Once that was installed, it
refused to start off the cd anymore.

Hope this helps,

--
John


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Re: 8.6 installation problems

[John Ryan]

on 4/5/03 6:02 PM, Paul Nelson at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> At 4:02 PM -0500 4/5/03, John Ryan wrote:
>> To all those more learned in Mac than Me:
>>  I have a 5300c that I just upped the ram to 64Meg and put a 6 gig hard
>> drive in. Now the problem. I had the 6 gig in an external USB housing. I
>> hooked the external drive to my ibook and essentially  copied the entire cd
>> onto the drive. Installed the drive in my 5300c and started it up. I get
>> just past the smiling mac icon and get an error saying the OS will only
>> operate on the original media. How do I install an OS on the new drive.
>> SCSI Disk is not an option. Don't have a scsi port on my ibook.
>> Tried to install from the CD onto the USB drive but it would not allow me
>> to.
>> All advice is extremely welcome
>> Thanks
>> John Ryan
> 
> SCSI CD-ROMs are pretty cheap, now.  Isn't that the best way to go?
> Paul
> 
> 
I guess that would work-the only problem is that the 6 gig drive I put in
has no OS on it. I have a SCSI CD drive. How would the SCSI CD drive work?
There would be no drivers  available for it.
John


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Re: 8.6 installation problems

[Paul Nelson]

At 4:02 PM -0500 4/5/03, John Ryan wrote:
>To all those more learned in Mac than Me:
>  I have a 5300c that I just upped the ram to 64Meg and put a 6 gig hard
>drive in. Now the problem. I had the 6 gig in an external USB housing. I
>hooked the external drive to my ibook and essentially  copied the entire cd
>onto the drive. Installed the drive in my 5300c and started it up. I get
>just past the smiling mac icon and get an error saying the OS will only
>operate on the original media. How do I install an OS on the new drive.
>SCSI Disk is not an option. Don't have a scsi port on my ibook.
>Tried to install from the CD onto the USB drive but it would not allow me
>to.
>All advice is extremely welcome
>Thanks
>John Ryan

SCSI CD-ROMs are pretty cheap, now.  Isn't that the best way to go?
Paul



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8.6 installation problems

[John Ryan]

To all those more learned in Mac than Me:
  I have a 5300c that I just upped the ram to 64Meg and put a 6 gig hard
drive in. Now the problem. I had the 6 gig in an external USB housing. I
hooked the external drive to my ibook and essentially  copied the entire cd
onto the drive. Installed the drive in my 5300c and started it up. I get
just past the smiling mac icon and get an error saying the OS will only
operate on the original media. How do I install an OS on the new drive.
SCSI Disk is not an option. Don't have a scsi port on my ibook.
Tried to install from the CD onto the USB drive but it would not allow me
to.
All advice is extremely welcome
Thanks
John Ryan 


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