Re: Wi-Fi interference (was Re: 802.11g for 3400c?)

[Eric L. Strobel]

somewhere near the temporal coordinates of 10/18/03 7:30 PM, the entity
known as Clark Martin transmitted the following from [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

> Interference wouldn't tend to lower the signal strength, it MIGHT
> even cause an increase.  Signal strength is a measure of the RF
> signal or signals at or near the operating frequency making no
> distinction between 802.11b and signals from any other source.

Exactly.  In fact, you can think of it as increasing the noise so that your
signal-to-noise drops too low for information to pass reliably over the
connection.

- Eric.
-- 

Eric Strobel ([EMAIL PROTECTED])

=
Remember...  Moderation in all things, INCLUDING MODERATION!!
= 


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Re: Wi-Fi interference (was Re: 802.11g for 3400c?)

[Clark Martin]

At 8:29 AM -0600 10/18/03, Andrew Kershaw wrote:
Other than that I don't have any obvious sources for interference. 
My wireless phone is old technology (900mHz) and my microwave is 
not being used at the same time.
As an aside, my Sony 900 MHz (mHz is milliHertz) cordless phone is 
completely non-functional if I place the cradle/base station beside 
my 802.11b base station.  My guess would be that the 802.11b base 
station has enough of an RF spur near 1800 MHz to cause crippling 
interference.  (That's curious, though, since you wouldn't expect to 
see an 1800 MHz spur from a 2400 MHz transmitter, especially if it 
passes the FCC requirements).


You can also have a problem with the digital signals.  Most base 
stations support 100BaseT which means they have a 100MHz clock.  A 
digital clock signal puts out noise at several multiples of the 
operating frequencies.

But I can't deny that my cordless phone doesn't work when the 
phone's base station directly lined up between the handset and 
802.11b base station, either.

OTOH, I haven't noticed any significant dip in signal strength for 
my 802.11b network in these situations.


Interference wouldn't tend to lower the signal strength, it MIGHT 
even cause an increase.  Signal strength is a measure of the RF 
signal or signals at or near the operating frequency making no 
distinction between 802.11b and signals from any other source.

By the way, if you notice that your wireless network goes down when 
you use your microwave oven, it's time to buy a new microwave oven. 
They are supposed to be shielded well enough to not let out any 
significant amount of RF radiation.  High-strength 2400 MHz 
microwaves are dangerous precisely because they cook food.  Don't 
get near that oven when it's working, especially not if you start to 
feel warm! ;-)


"any significant amount" is a relative term.  In comparison to 
cooking intensity only a damaged microwave oven would put out a 
"significant amount" of RF.  But with regard to wireless networking, 
which uses a pretty low power signal, a normal microwave oven could 
well put out a significant signal.  Microwave ovens use magnetrons 
which are a particularly noisy source of RF which means it doesn't 
have to be that close to the operating frequency to cause 
interference.  Also with a microwave oven you can get more near field 
effects than with most other equipment.  Near field effects generally 
would only have an effect within about 10 feet or so.

--
Clark Martin
Redwood City, CA, USA
Macintosh / Internet Consulting
"I'm a designated driver on the Information Super Highway"

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Re: 802.11g for 3400c

[ACFX44501]

In a message dated 10/17/03 6:37:32 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<<
The reason Cardbus is not officially supported in the 3400 is that technology 
marched on and the Cardbus cards took on a slightly different shape.
>>

There are three physical card types I am aware of:

1) true PCMCIA: PCMCIA keying, no copper shield around the connector,

2) Semi Cardbus: Cardbus keying, otherwise identical to a PCMCIA as there is 
no copper shield around the connector, and

3) true Cardbus: Cardbus keying, with Cardbus required copper shield around 
the connector.

There appears to be three card cages to match the above card configurations.

(2) type cards will easily fit a (1) type card cage, if the upper key bit is 
removed.

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Wi-Fi interference (was Re: 802.11g for 3400c?)

[Andrew Kershaw]

Other than that I don't have any obvious sources for interference. 
My wireless phone is old technology (900mHz) and my microwave is not 
being used at the same time.
As an aside, my Sony 900 MHz (mHz is milliHertz) cordless phone is 
completely non-functional if I place the cradle/base station beside 
my 802.11b base station.  My guess would be that the 802.11b base 
station has enough of an RF spur near 1800 MHz to cause crippling 
interference.  (That's curious, though, since you wouldn't expect to 
see an 1800 MHz spur from a 2400 MHz transmitter, especially if it 
passes the FCC requirements).

But I can't deny that my cordless phone doesn't work when the phone's 
base station directly lined up between the handset and 802.11b base 
station, either.

OTOH, I haven't noticed any significant dip in signal strength for my 
802.11b network in these situations.

By the way, if you notice that your wireless network goes down when 
you use your microwave oven, it's time to buy a new microwave oven. 
They are supposed to be shielded well enough to not let out any 
significant amount of RF radiation.  High-strength 2400 MHz 
microwaves are dangerous precisely because they cook food.  Don't get 
near that oven when it's working, especially not if you start to feel 
warm! ;-)

(Hey, what's wrong with 900 MHz technology?  In many ways, a 900 MHz 
phone is superior to a 2400 MHz phone, despite the marketing.  It's 
got a longer range, better penetration, etc.  Did you know that 2400 
MHz is near the resonant frequency of the water molecule - that's why 
microwave ovens use that frequency to cook food, and that's also why 
802.11b/g wireless links peter out quickly when the line-of-sight is 
interrupted by foliage, rain, or snow.)

Peace,
Drew
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Re: 802.11g for 3400c?

[D. Wakefield (DTP etc!)]

 --- On Fri 10/17, Clark Martin < [EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote:
From: Clark Martin [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 19:05:13 -0700
Subject: Re: 802.11g for 3400c?

That sounds a lot like interference.  Have you tried some different 
frequencies on the base station.

===

I have to admit that I have not used EVERY channel but I have gone from one end to 
another with little change. I settled on channel 3 since every once in a while, a 
second (channel 1, Linksys) and a third (channel 6, unknown brand, which has been 
renamed to the owner's business) WAP presence is identified. Always with very low 
signal strength but they do give me a clue as to which channels NOT to use. Other than 
that I don't have any obvious sources for interference. My wireless phone is old 
technology (900mHz) and my microwave is not being used at the same time. 

Don Wakefield - DTPetc!
Desk Top Productions et cetera!

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Re: 802.11g for 3400c?

[Clark Martin]

At 2:57 PM -0400 10/17/03, D. Wakefield (DTP etc!) wrote:
 --- On Fri 10/17,  < [EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote:
From:  [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:08:39 EDT
Subject: Re: 802.11g for 3400c?
 It does work great.
Great my be an overstatement!

 However, I can't get the "signal strength" indicator above
 about 1/3, even with the 5300 right next to the access
 point's antenna.
I find that it is usable on my 3400 (provided you are willing to 
reboot often, since the weakness and instability seems to grow with 
length of connection time) but I also must report reception issues. 
It appears to me that the card "zones in and out" on a regular 
basis. I have placed it within inches of the WAP antenna and watched 
the level fluctuate from teens to 90% repeatedly. Each cycle taking 
perhaps 3 to 5 seconds. Eventually it will loose connection 
altogether and at that point rebooting is the only way to 
reestablish contact with the card.


That sounds a lot like interference.  Have you tried some different 
frequencies on the base station.
--
Clark Martin
Redwood City, CA, USA
Macintosh / Internet Consulting

"I'm a designated driver on the Information Super Highway"

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Re: 802.11g for 3400c?

[Clark Martin]

At 2:08 PM -0400 10/17/03, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated 10/17/03 10:59:01 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<<
What about the skyline card:
http://www.emicrox.com/eShop/product.aspx?cid=-1&more=1&keywords=proxim+
skyline&pid=875478
  It's not too expensive.  It works with Mac and PC.  Says on the box it
works with the Powerbooks 190, 1400, 2400, 3400, 5300, G3 or G4 running
7.5.5 or higher.  I've got one for my 5300cs.  It works great.

It does work great.

However, I can't get the "signal strength" indicator above about 1/3, even
with the 5300 right next to the access point's antenna.


That's funny, I put one of these in my Wallstreet and it is more 
sensitive than the Orinoco I had in there.  And that is with a USB 
card installed above it which knocks off about 10 dB in the signal 
strength indicator.   Yesterday I pulled the USB card installed above 
the Skyline card and with the base about 20' and one wall away it was 
report -1 dBm which is about as strong as it gets.
--
Clark Martin
Redwood City, CA, USA
Macintosh / Internet Consulting

"I'm a designated driver on the Information Super Highway"

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Re: 802.11g for 3400c

[Eric L. Strobel]

somewhere near the temporal coordinates of 10/17/03 8:35 PM, the entity
known as Charles transmitted the following from [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

>> What about the skyline card:
>> 
>> http://www.emicrox.com/eShop/product.aspx?cid=-1&more=1&keywords=proxim+
>> skyline&pid=875478
>> 
> 
> Yeah, but as someone already pointed out, that is only an 802.11b (11Mbps)
> not an 802.11g (54Mbps) card.  Plus I've been told that the "Cardbus"
> 802.11g cards are incompatible with the 3400's PCMCIA interface.  I haven't
> heard a definitive explanation of this.

Quickly, the 3400 interface is Cardbus-compliant.  However, the card cage is
not, for two reasons.  First, the slots are 'keyed' for PCMCIA, but this can
be fixed by trimming the appropriate spot on the card with an XActo knife.
Second, when MCE does their Cardbus mod for 3400s, they add electromagnetic
isolation between the two slots.

Ad nauseum discussion is contained in the list archives with a periodicity
(it sometimes seems) of about once every 6-8 weeks.  Search away.

Now, in the case of an 802.11g card, as well as FireWire cards, the EMI
protection is the thing that could be the determining factor.  IIRC, there's
been mixed success with Firewire.  I don't recall hearing anything about
802.11g cards.

I wonder if it's time for a thread where folks report CardBus cards they've
tried in the 3400 and comments regarding success/failure and any quirks.

- Eric.

-- 

Eric Strobel ([EMAIL PROTECTED])

=
I'm searching for myself...  If I get back before I return, please
make sure I stay here.
= 


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Re: 802.11g for 3400c

[D. Wakefield (DTP etc!)]

 --- On Fri 10/17, Charles < [EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote:
From: Charles [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 20:35:46 -0400
Subject: Re: 802.11g for 3400c

Yeah, but as someone already pointed out, that is only an 802.11b (11Mbps) not an 
802.11g (54Mbps) card.  Plus I've been told that the "Cardbus" 802.11g cards are 
incompatible with the 3400's PCMCIA interface.  I haven't heard a definitive 
explanation of this.

=


The Skyline is not exactly a stock Cardbus design which is why the card will 
definitely work in a 3400 (I have one and it works with the caviate I mentioned 
earlier.) The reason Cardbus is not officially supported in the 3400 is that 
technology marched on and the Cardbus cards took on a slightly different shape. The 
connection transport mechanism is slightly different in machines which are really 
Cardbus compliant. The card's pins will align and the computer circuitry is in place 
in a 3400, but there is a ridge or bump on the side of the track mechanism in the 3400 
which will get in the way of a stock Cardbus designed card and preclude it from 
loading properly. There is info as to how to "shave" the corner of a stock Cardbus 
card to allow room for that bump provided by MacDan at: 
(http://mywebpages.comcast.net/macdan/).  I have done it and it only takes an xacto 
knife and a steady hand.  But as for the G version of WiFi, I have to expect that they 
will clearly be of the official Cardbus design and therefore have a need of shaving 
for sure. There will also be the problem of getting drivers for OS 9 (which I expect 
you are running.) Most new cards think the world started with OSX. I would recommend 
that you settle for B speed in your 3400. 

Don Wakefield - DTPetc!
Desk Top Productions et cetera!

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Re: 802.11g for 3400c

[Charles]

> 
> What about the skyline card:
> 
> http://www.emicrox.com/eShop/product.aspx?cid=-1&more=1&keywords=proxim+
> skyline&pid=875478
> 

Yeah, but as someone already pointed out, that is only an 802.11b (11Mbps)
not an 802.11g (54Mbps) card.  Plus I've been told that the "Cardbus"
802.11g cards are incompatible with the 3400's PCMCIA interface.  I haven't
heard a definitive explanation of this.

Charles


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Re: 802.11g for 3400c?

[Eric L. Strobel]

on 10/17/03 2:21 PM, Howard R. Katz at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> The skyline card is a great deal--works well in my PPC'd-520c, too.  But I
> think he was looking to see if there was an 802.11g PCMCIA card available
> and the skyline is an 802.11b.

Actually, as the question involves a 3400, an 802.11g CardBus card should
work also.

- Eric.
-- 

Eric Strobel ([EMAIL PROTECTED])

=
Remember...  Moderation in all things, INCLUDING MODERATION!!
= 


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Re: 802.11g for 3400c?

[D. Wakefield (DTP etc!)]

 --- On Fri 10/17,  < [EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote:
From:  [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:08:39 EDT
Subject: Re: 802.11g for 3400c?

> It does work great.

Great my be an overstatement!

> However, I can't get the "signal strength" indicator above
> about 1/3, even with the 5300 right next to the access 
> point's antenna.

I find that it is usable on my 3400 (provided you are willing to reboot often, since 
the weakness and instability seems to grow with length of connection time) but I also 
must report reception issues. It appears to me that the card "zones in and out" on a 
regular basis. I have placed it within inches of the WAP antenna and watched the level 
fluctuate from teens to 90% repeatedly. Each cycle taking perhaps 3 to 5 seconds. 
Eventually it will loose connection altogether and at that point rebooting is the only 
way to reestablish contact with the card. 



Don Wakefield - DTPetc!
Desk Top Productions et cetera!

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Re: 802.11g for 3400c?

[Howard R. Katz]

The skyline card is a great deal--works well in my PPC'd-520c, too.  But I
think he was looking to see if there was an 802.11g PCMCIA card available
and the skyline is an 802.11b.

On the other hand, there's not a lot of access points that are .11g
compliant that I've found (most still just .11b) and those that are work
well with the 11.b structures.  If you can get by with the 11.b setups, go
with the Skyline card--it'll work with you PB.

Later.Howard


Computer  n.   A pocket calculator with a glandular problem.

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Re: 802.11g for 3400c?

[ACFX44501]

In a message dated 10/17/03 10:59:01 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<<
What about the skyline card:

http://www.emicrox.com/eShop/product.aspx?cid=-1&more=1&keywords=proxim+
skyline&pid=875478

  It's not too expensive.  It works with Mac and PC.  Says on the box it
works with the Powerbooks 190, 1400, 2400, 3400, 5300, G3 or G4 running
7.5.5 or higher.  I've got one for my 5300cs.  It works great.
>>

It does work great.

However, I can't get the "signal strength" indicator above about 1/3, even 
with the 5300 right next to the access point's antenna.



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Re: 802.11g for 3400c?

[Benjamin W. Tripp]

  Hmmm...  Tried my own link and it didn't work.  Well here's the Micro
Xpress part number:  NETPR130.  Model PN473A.  ($28)

  Good luck.

  -Ben

-Original Message-
From: PowerBooks [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Benjamin W. Tripp
Sent: Friday, October 17, 2003 1:57 PM
To: PowerBooks
Subject: Re: 802.11g for 3400c?



  Charles,

  What about the skyline card:

http://www.emicrox.com/eShop/product.aspx?cid=-1&more=1&keywords=proxim+
skyline&pid=875478

  It's not too expensive.  It works with Mac and PC.  Says on the box it
works with the Powerbooks 190, 1400, 2400, 3400, 5300, G3 or G4 running
7.5.5 or higher.  I've got one for my 5300cs.  It works great.  

  -Ben





-Original Message-
From: PowerBooks [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Charles
Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2003 9:57 PM
To: PowerBooks
Subject: 802.11g for 3400c?

Does anyone know of an 802.11g wireless card that will work in a 3400c?

Charles


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Re: 802.11g for 3400c?

[Benjamin W. Tripp]

  Charles,

  What about the skyline card:

http://www.emicrox.com/eShop/product.aspx?cid=-1&more=1&keywords=proxim+
skyline&pid=875478

  It's not too expensive.  It works with Mac and PC.  Says on the box it
works with the Powerbooks 190, 1400, 2400, 3400, 5300, G3 or G4 running
7.5.5 or higher.  I've got one for my 5300cs.  It works great.  

  -Ben





-Original Message-
From: PowerBooks [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Charles
Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2003 9:57 PM
To: PowerBooks
Subject: 802.11g for 3400c?

Does anyone know of an 802.11g wireless card that will work in a 3400c?

Charles


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Re: 802.11g for 3400c?

[Howard R. Katz]

On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> There was an Asian 10/100 card which was PCMCIA. I've only seen it in a
> Japanese language version.

Does that mean it could only display webpages that are written in
Japanese? :)

Later.Howard


Computer  n.   A pocket calculator with a glandular problem.

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Re: 802.11g for 3400c?

[Eric L. Strobel]

on 10/17/03 11:17 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> <<
> Does anyone know of an 802.11g wireless card that will work in a 3400c?
>>> 
> 
> Current production 100 mb/sec cards are cardbus.

I think you're confusing 100Base-T ethernet with 802.11g wireless.

- Eric.
-- 

Eric Strobel ([EMAIL PROTECTED])

=
If aviation had grown as slowly as space travel, the first paying
customer would have flown in 1943 -- in the 1,657th expendable Wright
Flyer.
= 


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Re: 802.11g for 3400c?

[ACFX44501]

In a message dated 10/16/03 6:56:37 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<<
Does anyone know of an 802.11g wireless card that will work in a 3400c?
>>

Current production 100 mb/sec cards are cardbus.

There was an Asian 10/100 card which was PCMCIA. I've only seen it in a 
Japanese language version.

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802.11g for 3400c?

[Charles]

Does anyone know of an 802.11g wireless card that will work in a 3400c?

Charles


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