Re: Batteries
On Tuesday, June 7, 2005, at 03:54 PM, Fluxstringer wrote: What is the bottom line difference between LION and NIMH batteries like in the 5300 and 3400? __ Lithium ion batteries do not have a memory problem like Ni-Cads. I forget about Nihm except they don't seem to be rechargeable for as long in my experience. I think the Li-Ons are worth the extra cost in the long run. -- Adrian Just a FWIW aside: The PowerEx folks who make a great NiMh charger for AA camera batteries claim that NiMh looses about 3% of their charge every day. I can confirm that batteries that have been sitting around for 4-6 weeks are almost useless unless recharged. I can also confirm the LiIon battery in my Sony camcorder does not suffer that problem. But LiIon batteries do seem to be fussy, potentially dangerous, and not supported by Apple. Go with what Apple wants you to go with for any particular model. Also NiMh batteries can be charged quite quickly. I've seen 20 minute chargers for AAs, though 8 hours gives you about 10% more charge and longer battery life. I always slow charge mine. - Peter -- PowerBooks is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html PowerBooks list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/powerbooks.shtml -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:powerbooks@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/powerbooks%40mail.maclaunch.com/ iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com
Re: Batteries
Wasn't there also something about LiOn batteries (at least the early ones) catching on fire in the 5300? Later.Howard Computer n. A pocket calculator with a glandular problem. -- PowerBooks is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html PowerBooks list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/powerbooks.shtml -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:powerbooks@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/powerbooks%40mail.maclaunch.com/ iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com
Re: Batteries
I'm not looking for a debate. I'm just wondering why a lithium ion battery would not charge in a 5300. Because Apple says so! The prototype 5300s did have LiOn batteries. Then there was the the event that started the flaming battery rumors. I'm not going to say what happened because I don't know and the story is clear as mud. But something happened and Apple replaced the LiOn with NiMH and redesigned it to not charge LiOn. Then the 3400 and latter the G3 came out and they do have LiOn. They can charge and use either NiMH or LiOn. -- ___ Would those have been the ones associated with reports of fire? Wasn;t that at a very early time in the development of Li-on cells. Would anyone have any information as to whether a laptop battery should NOT be rebuilt with Li-on cells? -- Adrian -- PowerBooks is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html PowerBooks list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/powerbooks.shtml -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:powerbooks@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/powerbooks%40mail.maclaunch.com/ iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com
Re: Batteries
on 6/7/05 8:04 PM, Malcolm Cornelius at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think the Li-Ons are worth the extra cost in the long run. I was looking for really basic information, like this. I don't know about cost or extra cost or anything about the difference in the two kinds of batteries. -- Wanda K. -- PowerBooks is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html PowerBooks list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/powerbooks.shtml -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:powerbooks@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/powerbooks%40mail.maclaunch.com/ iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com
Re: Batteries
Get the Lion. You will enjoy the no memory feature. Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote me on 6.8.05 8:10 AM. Wanda K. loves Macs! on 6/7/05 8:04 PM, Malcolm Cornelius at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think the Li-Ons are worth the extra cost in the long run. I was looking for really basic information, like this. I don't know about cost or extra cost or anything about the difference in the two kinds of batteries. -- PowerBooks is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html PowerBooks list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/powerbooks.shtml -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:powerbooks@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/powerbooks%40mail.maclaunch.com/ iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com
Re: Batteries
on 6/8/05 8:22 AM, Dave Foshee at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Get the Lion. You will enjoy the no memory feature. Thanks for the tip. Can anyone tell me the powermanager on the 5300. Some sort of key combonation that re-sets it. -- Wanda K. -- PowerBooks is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html PowerBooks list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/powerbooks.shtml -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:powerbooks@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/powerbooks%40mail.maclaunch.com/ iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com
Re: Batteries
On Wednesday 08 June 2005 08:54 am, Wanda K. wrote: on 6/8/05 8:22 AM, Dave Foshee at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Get the Lion. You will enjoy the no memory feature. Thanks for the tip. Can anyone tell me the powermanager on the 5300. Some sort of key combonation that re-sets it. -- Wanda K. I'd just get two batteries and the LIon charger. You just have to remember to take the battery out and put it in the charger when it gets low. C. Cupples -- PowerBooks is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html PowerBooks list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/powerbooks.shtml -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:powerbooks@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/powerbooks%40mail.maclaunch.com/ iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com
Re: Batteries
At 8:55 AM -0400 6/8/05, Fluxstringer wrote: I'm not looking for a debate. I'm just wondering why a lithium ion battery would not charge in a 5300. Because Apple says so! The prototype 5300s did have LiOn batteries. Then there was the the event that started the flaming battery rumors. I'm not going to say what happened because I don't know and the story is clear as mud. But something happened and Apple replaced the LiOn with NiMH and redesigned it to not charge LiOn. Then the 3400 and latter the G3 came out and they do have LiOn. They can charge and use either NiMH or LiOn. -- ___ Would those have been the ones associated with reports of fire? Yes Wasn;t that at a very early time in the development of Li-on cells. Yes Would anyone have any information as to whether a laptop battery should NOT be rebuilt with Li-on cells? The biggest problem with rebuilding a LiON is cell availability. The are rarely available as individual cells and finding the right form factor cells is going to be harder still. You would only want to rebuild a LiON battery pack with LiON cells. There is a part inside the battery packs which tells the computer (charging circuit) what kind of battery it is. If you were to rebuild a NiMH pack with LiON cells the pack would still be identified as NiMH and the results could be BAD (tm). -- Clark Martin Redwood City, CA, USA Macintosh / Internet Consulting I'm a designated driver on the Information Super Highway -- PowerBooks is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html PowerBooks list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/powerbooks.shtml -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:powerbooks@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/powerbooks%40mail.maclaunch.com/ iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com
Re: Batteries
At 5:44 PM -0400 6/8/05, Fluxstringer wrote: At 8:55 AM -0400 6/8/05, Fluxstringer wrote: I'm not looking for a debate. I'm just wondering why a lithium ion battery would not charge in a 5300. Because Apple says so! The prototype 5300s did have LiOn batteries. Then there was the the event that started the flaming battery rumors. I'm not going to say what happened because I don't know and the story is clear as mud. But something happened and Apple replaced the LiOn with NiMH and redesigned it to not charge LiOn. Then the 3400 and latter the G3 came out and they do have LiOn. They can charge and use either NiMH or LiOn. -- ___ Would those have been the ones associated with reports of fire? Yes Wasn;t that at a very early time in the development of Li-on cells. Yes Would anyone have any information as to whether a laptop battery should NOT be rebuilt with Li-on cells? The biggest problem with rebuilding a LiON is cell availability. The are rarely available as individual cells and finding the right form factor cells is going to be harder still. You would only want to rebuild a LiON battery pack with LiON cells. There is a part inside the battery packs which tells the computer (charging circuit) what kind of battery it is. If you were to rebuild a NiMH pack with LiON cells the pack would still be identified as NiMH and the results could be BAD (tm). -- ??? The Nimh cells I have charge at a slower/lower rate than the Lion cells I have For various things around the house. Sellers of the Lion cells say they will charge in any charger but sell special ones for high charge rates that recarge very fast. I have no idea what form factor fits inside the 5300 battery pack But recently looked for 4/3 A batteries for my7 1400 and Li-on batteries that size are available. But as you say the electronics may( or may not? ) present a problem in switching over. Current limits, float / cutoff voltages and in some cases temperature limits are all likely different between the two. Lithium are likely to have a higher maximum charge current. Thus if you use a NiMH charger it will take longer. The float / cutoff voltage is likely different between the two. I don't know what they are. But they are almost certainly different. If the charger voltage is lower than the battery it won't charge fully. If it's higher it will likely damage the battery. The thing I've found with all rechargeable batteries is that the better the charger the longer they last and the more operating time you get from them. Which means that using a charger meant for a different type of battery is nothing but trouble. Any electrical engineers out there with suggestions? -- Me -- Clark Martin Redwood City, CA, USA Macintosh / Internet Consulting I'm a designated driver on the Information Super Highway -- PowerBooks is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html PowerBooks list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/powerbooks.shtml -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:powerbooks@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/powerbooks%40mail.maclaunch.com/ iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com
Re: Batteries
And now the rest of the story. . . Thanks Clark. ! -- PowerBooks is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html PowerBooks list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/powerbooks.shtml -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:powerbooks@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/powerbooks%40mail.maclaunch.com/ iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com
Re: Batteries
What is the bottom line difference between LION and NIMH batteries like in the 5300 and 3400? __ Lithium ion batteries do not have a memory problem like Ni-Cads. I forget about Nihm except they don't seem to be rechargeable for as long in my experience. I think the Li-Ons are worth the extra cost in the long run. -- Adrian -- PowerBooks is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html PowerBooks list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/powerbooks.shtml -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:powerbooks@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/powerbooks%40mail.maclaunch.com/ iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com
Re: Batteries
What is the bottom line difference between LION and NIMH batteries like in the 5300 and 3400? __ Lithium ion batteries do not have a memory problem like Ni-Cads. I forget about Nihm except they don't seem to be rechargeable for as long in my experience. I think the Li-Ons are worth the extra cost in the long run. Except they wont charge in a 5300 ... Ok, there will now be a debate about this I guess -- Best wishes Malcolm Cornelius - The Powerbook Fanatic http://www.pbfanatic.co.uk -- PowerBooks is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html PowerBooks list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/powerbooks.shtml -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:powerbooks@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/powerbooks%40mail.maclaunch.com/ iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com
Re: Batteries
What is the bottom line difference between LION and NIMH batteries like in the 5300 and 3400? __ Lithium ion batteries do not have a memory problem like Ni-Cads. I forget about Nihm except they don't seem to be rechargeable for as long in my experience. I think the Li-Ons are worth the extra cost in the long run. Except they wont charge in a 5300 ... Ok, there will now be a debate about this I guess -- __ I'm not looking for a debate. I'm just wondering why a lithium ion battery would not charge in a 5300. -- Adrian -- PowerBooks is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html PowerBooks list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/powerbooks.shtml -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:powerbooks@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/powerbooks%40mail.maclaunch.com/ iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com
Re: Batteries
What is the bottom line difference between LION and NIMH batteries like in the 5300 and 3400? __ Lithium ion batteries do not have a memory problem like Ni-Cads. I forget about Nihm except they don't seem to be rechargeable for as long in my experience. I think the Li-Ons are worth the extra cost in the long run. Except they wont charge in a 5300 ... Ok, there will now be a debate about this I guess -- __ I'm not looking for a debate. I'm just wondering why a lithium ion battery would not charge in a 5300. More information please. -- Adrian -- PowerBooks is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html PowerBooks list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/powerbooks.shtml -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:powerbooks@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/powerbooks%40mail.maclaunch.com/ iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com
Re: Batteries
At 9:39 PM -0400 6/7/05, Fluxstringer wrote: What is the bottom line difference between LION and NIMH batteries like in the 5300 and 3400? LiOn have higher energy density than NiMH. Meaning they will run a given laptop longer than a NiMH. __ Lithium ion batteries do not have a memory problem like Ni-Cads. I forget about Nihm except they don't seem to be rechargeable for as long in my experience. I think the Li-Ons are worth the extra cost in the long run. Except they wont charge in a 5300 ... Ok, there will now be a debate about this I guess -- __ I'm not looking for a debate. I'm just wondering why a lithium ion battery would not charge in a 5300. Because Apple says so! The prototype 5300s did have LiOn batteries. Then there was the the event that started the flaming battery rumors. I'm not going to say what happened because I don't know and the story is clear as mud. But something happened and Apple replaced the LiOn with NiMH and redesigned it to not charge LiOn. Then the 3400 and latter the G3 came out and they do have LiOn. They can charge and use either NiMH or LiOn. -- Clark Martin Redwood City, CA, USA Macintosh / Internet Consulting I'm a designated driver on the Information Super Highway -- PowerBooks is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html PowerBooks list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/powerbooks.shtml -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:powerbooks@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/powerbooks%40mail.maclaunch.com/ iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com
Re: Batteries for powerbooks
Batteries for the series 1XX PowerBooks are available from Gadget Power. Depending on your budget, time, skill, and proximity to sources of cheap cells, you might consider rebuilding rather than replacing. I for one am a cheap SOB, and can't bring myself to paying more for batteries than the PB itself is worth. The PB170 battery consists of ordinary NiCd cells, each slightly bigger than AA. Crack open the battery pack (yes, this is a pain; use an xacto knife or some such thing, and be careful), and replace the cells with fresh NiCd ones, taking care to preserve polarities. Reassemble, and you're good to go. I've found cells for under a dollar, so that the average cost of a rebuild is around $10 or so. As to the infamous PB5300 flaming batteries story, it's my understanding that no lithium ion batteries were ever shipped to customers, but several were in the hands of developers. It was one of them who discovered what happens when such a battery is mistreated (the PB melted itself on his kitchen counter, with hissing roman candle-like jets of hot gas and toxic chemicals shooting out of the side). The units were immediately recalled, and the PB redesigned at the last minute to use NiMH batteries instead. -- Prof. Thomas H. Lee Center for Integrated Systems, CIS-205 420 Via Palou Mall Stanford University Stanford, CA 94305-4070 http://www-smirc.stanford.edu 650-725-3709 ph, -3383 fax -- PowerBooks is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html PowerBooks list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/powerbooks.shtml -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/powerbooks%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Mac? Free email more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
Re: Batteries for powerbooks
Thanks for the tip Tom, as I have several older powerbooks that I would like to give to kids around the neighborhood, but they have bad batteries. Steve On Friday, May 21, 2004, at 12:10 PM, Tom Lee wrote: Batteries for the series 1XX PowerBooks are available from Gadget Power. Depending on your budget, time, skill, and proximity to sources of cheap cells, you might consider rebuilding rather than replacing. I for one am a cheap SOB, and can't bring myself to paying more for batteries than the PB itself is worth. The PB170 battery consists of ordinary NiCd cells, each slightly bigger than AA. Crack open the battery pack (yes, this is a pain; use an xacto knife or some such thing, and be careful), and replace the cells with fresh NiCd ones, taking care to preserve polarities. Reassemble, and you're good to go. I've found cells for under a dollar, so that the average cost of a rebuild is around $10 or so. As to the infamous PB5300 flaming batteries story, it's my understanding that no lithium ion batteries were ever shipped to customers, but several were in the hands of developers. It was one of them who discovered what happens when such a battery is mistreated (the PB melted itself on his kitchen counter, with hissing roman candle-like jets of hot gas and toxic chemicals shooting out of the side). The units were immediately recalled, and the PB redesigned at the last minute to use NiMH batteries instead. -- Prof. Thomas H. Lee Center for Integrated Systems, CIS-205 420 Via Palou Mall Stanford University Stanford, CA 94305-4070 http://www-smirc.stanford.edu 650-725-3709 ph, -3383 fax -- PowerBooks is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html PowerBooks list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/powerbooks.shtml -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/powerbooks%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Mac? Free email more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
Re: Batteries: why do they die and how to prevent it?
Here's a link to a decent FAQ on batteries: http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=18241 Kent Peterson Issaquah WA USA http://www.halcyon.com/peterson/rando.html -- PowerBooks is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html PowerBooks list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/powerbooks.shtml -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:powerbooks;mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:powerbooks-off;mail.maclaunch.com For digest mode, email: mailto:powerbooks-digest;mail.maclaunch.com Subscription questions: mailto:listmom;lowendmac.com Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/powerbooks%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- The Think Different Store http://www.ThinkDifferentStore.com ---
Re: Batteries: why do they die and how to prevent it?
Subject: Batteries: why do they die and how to prevent it? In-Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject says it all. This short question could lead to an infinitely long answer. To keep it brief, I'll limit the discussion to just rechargeable batteries. Rechargeable batteries work because their underlying chemical reactions are nominally reversible. You might think, then, that they should have a nearly infinite lifetime. Unfortunately, the reversibility applies only to the chemical reactions, and not necessarily to the physical/mechanical changes that accompany charge-discharge cycles. As you discharge a cell, physical transport of material generally takes place. Recharging generally moves the stuff back, but not necessarily to their exact, original locations. So, you might build up peaks and valleys over time. Eventually, some of those peaks can puncture insulation and cause shorts, or the valleys can effectively create regions of high resistance (or even open circuits). A constant challenge of battery designers is to minimize these sorts of consequences. The famous (and misnamed) memory effect in nickel-based cells is an example of a problem caused by physical changes. In this case, overcharging (most commonly caused by continuing to charge -- even at a low level -- a NiCd or NiMH (yes, really) battery even after it's been topped up) can cause the growth of surprisingly large crystals within the battery (with an ordinary microscope, you can readily see the difference in crystal size for a virgin battery, compared with one that has been consistently overcharged -- but be aware that nickel-based compounds are toxic, so don't cut open batteries unless you know what you're doing). As they grow, the cell resistance increases, reducing the cell's ability to deliver energy to a load. Eventually, the crystals will grow large enough to puncture insulation and cause a short. Sometimes, you can fix this by applying a huge current for a short time (e.g., from a big fat capacitor). To prevent memory is easy: Don't recharge NiCd cells before you've really drained them. Using them just a bit, and then popping them back into the charger turns out to be a terrible thing for NiCd/NiMH batteries. If memory problems do arise, a couple of thorough discharge-charge cycles will help break down the crystals. Many battery chargers/reconditioners attempt to perform this function. However, they generally operate on an entire battery pack. If there's a shorted cell inside, reconditioning will generally fail. Even worse, discharging such a pack can result in the application of reverse voltages across one or more cells, and this will destroy them fairly quickly. So, if you do decide to recondition cells, you really need to do it on an individual cell basis. That generally means popping open battery packs, or drilling/melting access holes, etc. You have to be pretty determined to want to go through that trouble, but that's the best way to keep those cells going for a long time. Lead-acid batteries also suffer degradation from physical changes, but they manifest themselves differently. Here, you must *avoid* deep discharges, because the lead-acid system produces a chemical, lead sulfate, which is an insoluble insulator. Deep discharges create a layer of this insulator that is too thick, and the cell resistance increases more or less permanently. That's why you will often seriously wound or even kill a car battery if you leave your headlights on overnight. For these batteries, you want to treat them more or less the opposite way you would treat NiCd cells. Keep lead-acid batteries fully charged as much as possible, don't discharge them deeply, and never store them in a discharged state. Hope that this is what you were looking for. -- Prof. Thomas H. Lee Center for Integrated Systems, CIS-205 420 Via Palou Mall Stanford University Stanford, CA 94305-4070 http://www-smirc.stanford.edu 650-725-3709 ph, -3383 fax -- PowerBooks is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html PowerBooks list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/powerbooks.shtml -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:powerbooks;mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:powerbooks-off;mail.maclaunch.com For digest mode, email: mailto:powerbooks-digest;mail.maclaunch.com Subscription questions: mailto:listmom;lowendmac.com Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/powerbooks%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- The Think Different Store http://www.ThinkDifferentStore.com ---
