[ppiindia] Re: Amerika = Negara Krsiten ?
Lha ya kenapa to, kalo US bela Israel? pake syarat kek, nggak pake kek. Itu politik mereka kok, pake uang mereka kok. Bosnia dibela karena Europa? gak lahh, sebab orang Serbia kan harusnya lebih dekat? Lha wong sama agamanya (walau beda jurusan)? kalo kita mau bela Palestina, ya monggo, kirim beras, obat2an, uang, senjata, sukarelawan, TKW... RMDH --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], RG Nur Rahmat [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bagaimana dengan dukungan Amerika terhadap Israel yang begitu kuat dan tanpa syarat? Mungkin Bosnia itu karena orang Eropa maka harus diselamatkan. rm_danardono [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mbak, dengan pekik juangnya El Pluribus Unum US adalah negara bhineka budaya dan agama, dan tak pernah merumuskan policy-nya bersandang pada kajian agama. US membela Kosovo dan Bosnia yang Muslim, dan membom Seebia yang Kristen. Lain kali membpom negara2 yang beragama lain. jadi tak ada kriteria keagamaan dalam perilaku US secara keseluruhan. Satu2nya kaitan US dengan religiousitas adalah ungkapan In God we trust. Kalau kita pelajari system hukum US yang termasuk kelompok system Anglo Saxon, maka kita lihat ketatnya azas sekularisme. Negara ya negara, agama ya agama. ya kan mBak? Salam RM D Hadinoto --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Carla Annamarie wrote: america memang bukan negara agama, tp negara america berdiri or founded by sekelompok org kristen puritan, makanya kalo dilihat dr dasar- dasar philosophy negaranya bnyk terkandung ajaran kristen. kalo dilihat sejarahnya, america adalah negara religious, tp dgn perkembangan jaman bnyk perubahan, sejak adanya amandemen pemisahan state affairs from religious affairs. partogi samosir [EMAIL PROTECTED] ahoo.com cc: Subject: [ppiindia] Amerika = Negara Krsiten ? 11/01/2004 07:44 PM Please respond to ppiindia dear all, Sikap gereja di Amerika (yang mengesahkan pernikahan sesama jenis dan melantik seorang Gay menjadi pendeta) semakin menyadarkan kita bahwa Amerika bukan negara Kristen. Semua aksi dan policy Amerika bukan untuk kepentingan Kekristenan, tapi untuk kepentingan Amerika sendiri. togi dicky riyadi wrote: Africans: Pro-Gay U.S. Church Follows New Religion Fri Oct 29,11:22 AM ET Top Stories - Reuters By Dino Mahtani LAGOS (Reuters) - African bishops representing a majority of the world's Anglicans said on Friday North American sections that embrace homosexuality should be seen as following a different religion. The statement by top Anglican clerics at a landmark conference in Nigeria to determine their future marked a growing separation between conservatives and liberals in the 70-million strong church. The bishops told their North American counterparts to repent and ask for forgiveness for approving same-sex marriages and consecrating Gene Robinson, a divorced homosexual and father of two, as a bishop. Failure to do so would indicate that they have chosen to 'walk alone' and follow another religion, said the statement issued by the senior clerics from across the continent. A report earlier this month by senior Anglican clergy urged North American congregations to ban same-sex marriages and the ordination of gay clergy, but stepped back from an outright condemnation of gays in a bid to reconcile the divisions. But African church leaders said it did not go far enough and accused the North American communions of subverting the faith and imposing a false doctrine. African bishops want their continent to become the new heartland of Anglicanism and Nigerian Primate Peter Akinola, Africa's top cleric, has said the Church of Nigeria aims to set up branches in the United States. Church leaders in Africa fear if Anglicanism fails to take a firm stance on homosexuality, its parishioners -- many of whom are traditionalists who cannot stomach the idea of gay bishops -- will desert it for evangelical churches or Islam. Earlier this week Nigerian President Olusegun Obasanjo -- a born- again Christian -- backed African bishops in rejecting homosexuality and called gay tendencies unbiblical, unnatural and definitely un-African. The bishops gathered in Nigeria have said they would not be swayed in their rejection of ordaining gays by the lure of church funds from the liberal West, despite Africa receiving 70 percent of its funds mainly from America. But church leaders say the split between African bishops and their American counterparts is not so much a geographical division as a split between the liberal and conservative wings of the church. Already, conservatives in the same U.S. Episcopal Church that ordained Robinson have called his appointment schismatic. Many of the more liberal bishops in Africa,
[ppiindia] Re: Amerika = Negara Krsiten ? manusia bangsa
Daripada terus nggladrah boleh pendek diambil hikmah : komitmen peradaban itu - kemanusiaan - kebangsaan jang lupa logo ppiindia deh. kapan bangsa ini bangkit dari keterpurukan ya ? jadi bukan agama, suku, ras dan serupanya. ok ok --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], RM Danardono HADINOTO [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lha ya kenapa to, kalo US bela Israel? pake syarat kek, nggak pake kek. Itu politik mereka kok, pake uang mereka kok. Bosnia dibela karena Europa? gak lahh, sebab orang Serbia kan harusnya lebih dekat? Lha wong sama agamanya (walau beda jurusan)? kalo kita mau bela Palestina, ya monggo, kirim beras, obat2an, uang, senjata, sukarelawan, TKW... RMDH --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], RG Nur Rahmat [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bagaimana dengan dukungan Amerika terhadap Israel yang begitu kuat dan tanpa syarat? Mungkin Bosnia itu karena orang Eropa maka harus diselamatkan. rm_danardono [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mbak, dengan pekik juangnya El Pluribus Unum US adalah negara bhineka budaya dan agama, dan tak pernah merumuskan policy-nya bersandang pada kajian agama. US membela Kosovo dan Bosnia yang Muslim, dan membom Seebia yang Kristen. Lain kali membpom negara2 yang beragama lain. jadi tak ada kriteria keagamaan dalam perilaku US secara keseluruhan. Satu2nya kaitan US dengan religiousitas adalah ungkapan In God we trust. Kalau kita pelajari system hukum US yang termasuk kelompok system Anglo Saxon, maka kita lihat ketatnya azas sekularisme. Negara ya negara, agama ya agama. ya kan mBak? Salam RM D Hadinoto --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Carla Annamarie wrote: america memang bukan negara agama, tp negara america berdiri or founded by sekelompok org kristen puritan, makanya kalo dilihat dr dasar- dasar philosophy negaranya bnyk terkandung ajaran kristen. kalo dilihat sejarahnya, america adalah negara religious, tp dgn perkembangan jaman bnyk perubahan, sejak adanya amandemen pemisahan state affairs from religious affairs. partogi samosir [EMAIL PROTECTED] ahoo.com cc: Subject: [ppiindia] Amerika = Negara Krsiten ? 11/01/2004 07:44 PM Please respond to ppiindia dear all, Sikap gereja di Amerika (yang mengesahkan pernikahan sesama jenis dan melantik seorang Gay menjadi pendeta) semakin menyadarkan kita bahwa Amerika bukan negara Kristen. Semua aksi dan policy Amerika bukan untuk kepentingan Kekristenan, tapi untuk kepentingan Amerika sendiri. togi dicky riyadi wrote: Africans: Pro-Gay U.S. Church Follows New Religion Fri Oct 29,11:22 AM ET Top Stories - Reuters By Dino Mahtani LAGOS (Reuters) - African bishops representing a majority of the world's Anglicans said on Friday North American sections that embrace homosexuality should be seen as following a different religion. The statement by top Anglican clerics at a landmark conference in Nigeria to determine their future marked a growing separation between conservatives and liberals in the 70-million strong church. The bishops told their North American counterparts to repent and ask for forgiveness for approving same-sex marriages and consecrating Gene Robinson, a divorced homosexual and father of two, as a bishop. Failure to do so would indicate that they have chosen to 'walk alone' and follow another religion, said the statement issued by the senior clerics from across the continent. A report earlier this month by senior Anglican clergy urged North American congregations to ban same-sex marriages and the ordination of gay clergy, but stepped back from an outright condemnation of gays in a bid to reconcile the divisions. But African church leaders said it did not go far enough and accused the North American communions of subverting the faith and imposing a false doctrine. African bishops want their continent to become the new heartland of Anglicanism and Nigerian Primate Peter Akinola, Africa's top cleric, has said the Church of Nigeria aims to set up branches in the United States. Church leaders in Africa fear if Anglicanism fails to take a firm stance on homosexuality, its parishioners -- many of whom are traditionalists who cannot stomach the idea of gay bishops -- will desert it for evangelical churches or Islam. Earlier this week Nigerian President Olusegun Obasanjo -- a born- again Christian -- backed African bishops in rejecting homosexuality and called gay tendencies unbiblical, unnatural and definitely un- African. The bishops gathered in Nigeria have said they would not be swayed in their rejection of ordaining gays by the lure
Re: [ppiindia] Re: Amerika = Negara Krsiten ?
Pak bapak masih ada hubungan darah dengan sigit respati danardono engak pak ? dia HRD Mgr di tenpat saya - Original Message - From: RM Danardono HADINOTO To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2004 3:25 PM Subject: [ppiindia] Re: Amerika = Negara Krsiten ? Lha ya kenapa to, kalo US bela Israel? pake syarat kek, nggak pake kek. Itu politik mereka kok, pake uang mereka kok. Bosnia dibela karena Europa? gak lahh, sebab orang Serbia kan harusnya lebih dekat? Lha wong sama agamanya (walau beda jurusan)? kalo kita mau bela Palestina, ya monggo, kirim beras, obat2an, uang, senjata, sukarelawan, TKW... RMDH --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], RG Nur Rahmat [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bagaimana dengan dukungan Amerika terhadap Israel yang begitu kuat dan tanpa syarat? Mungkin Bosnia itu karena orang Eropa maka harus diselamatkan. rm_danardono [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mbak, dengan pekik juangnya El Pluribus Unum US adalah negara bhineka budaya dan agama, dan tak pernah merumuskan policy-nya bersandang pada kajian agama. US membela Kosovo dan Bosnia yang Muslim, dan membom Seebia yang Kristen. Lain kali membpom negara2 yang beragama lain. jadi tak ada kriteria keagamaan dalam perilaku US secara keseluruhan. Satu2nya kaitan US dengan religiousitas adalah ungkapan In God we trust. Kalau kita pelajari system hukum US yang termasuk kelompok system Anglo Saxon, maka kita lihat ketatnya azas sekularisme. Negara ya negara, agama ya agama. ya kan mBak? Salam RM D Hadinoto --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Carla Annamarie wrote: america memang bukan negara agama, tp negara america berdiri or founded by sekelompok org kristen puritan, makanya kalo dilihat dr dasar- dasar philosophy negaranya bnyk terkandung ajaran kristen. kalo dilihat sejarahnya, america adalah negara religious, tp dgn perkembangan jaman bnyk perubahan, sejak adanya amandemen pemisahan state affairs from religious affairs. partogi samosir [EMAIL PROTECTED] ahoo.com cc: Subject: [ppiindia] Amerika = Negara Krsiten ? 11/01/2004 07:44 PM Please respond to ppiindia dear all, Sikap gereja di Amerika (yang mengesahkan pernikahan sesama jenis dan melantik seorang Gay menjadi pendeta) semakin menyadarkan kita bahwa Amerika bukan negara Kristen. Semua aksi dan policy Amerika bukan untuk kepentingan Kekristenan, tapi untuk kepentingan Amerika sendiri. togi dicky riyadi wrote: Africans: Pro-Gay U.S. Church Follows New Religion Fri Oct 29,11:22 AM ET Top Stories - Reuters By Dino Mahtani LAGOS (Reuters) - African bishops representing a majority of the world's Anglicans said on Friday North American sections that embrace homosexuality should be seen as following a different religion. The statement by top Anglican clerics at a landmark conference in Nigeria to determine their future marked a growing separation between conservatives and liberals in the 70-million strong church. The bishops told their North American counterparts to repent and ask for forgiveness for approving same-sex marriages and consecrating Gene Robinson, a divorced homosexual and father of two, as a bishop. Failure to do so would indicate that they have chosen to 'walk alone' and follow another religion, said the statement issued by the senior clerics from across the continent. A report earlier this month by senior Anglican clergy urged North American congregations to ban same-sex marriages and the ordination of gay clergy, but stepped back from an outright condemnation of gays in a bid to reconcile the divisions. But African church leaders said it did not go far enough and accused the North American communions of subverting the faith and imposing a false doctrine. African bishops want their continent to become the new heartland of Anglicanism and Nigerian Primate Peter Akinola, Africa's top cleric, has said the Church of Nigeria aims to set up branches in the United States. Church leaders in Africa fear if Anglicanism fails to take a firm stance on homosexuality, its parishioners -- many of whom are traditionalists who cannot stomach the idea of gay bishops -- will desert it for evangelical churches or Islam. Earlier this week Nigerian President Olusegun Obasanjo -- a born- again Christian -- backed African bishops in rejecting homosexuality and called gay tendencies unbiblical, unnatural and definitely un-African
Fw: [ppiindia] Re: Amerika = Negara Krsiten ? -- Kalau AS bukan negara Kristen, Indonesia juga bukan negara Islam.
tidak wajar sesuai sudut keperluan pandangan itu sendiri. Misalnya, tidak mungkin seorang menteri dalam negerinya era Orde Baru adalah non-muslim karena acara nasional tahunan Musabaqoh Tilawatil Qur'an (MTQ) ada dalam kalender kegiatan tiap provinsi. Tidak mungkin seorang menteri luar negeri (berturut-turut Adam Malik, Mochtar Kusumaatmadja, Ali Alatas, Alwi Shihab dan Hassan Wirajuda) beragama non-Islam karena RI menginginkan citra khusus di kalangan dunia Islam/Arab meski negara-negara Arab penghasil petrodollar pelit membantu Indonesia dan bukan merupakan pasar untuk obyek-obyek wisata RI (NB: turis-turis Timur Tengah, ketimbang yang dari Eropa, tidak memiliki ketertarikan emosional khusus dengan obyek-obyek wisata yang merupakan warisan historis era nusantara Hindu semisal Bali dan Tengger). Sekian dulu. Salam hangat, Kaboel [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] - Original Message - From: rm_danardono [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 3:11 PM Subject: [ppiindia] Re: Amerika = Negara Krsiten ? Mbak, dengan pekik juangnya El Pluribus Unum US adalah negara bhineka budaya dan agama, dan tak pernah merumuskan policy-nya bersandang pada kajian agama. US membela Kosovo dan Bosnia yang Muslim, dan membom Seebia yang Kristen. Lain kali membpom negara2 yang beragama lain. jadi tak ada kriteria keagamaan dalam perilaku US secara keseluruhan. Satu2nya kaitan US dengan religiousitas adalah ungkapan In God we trust. Kalau kita pelajari system hukum US yang termasuk kelompok system Anglo Saxon, maka kita lihat ketatnya azas sekularisme. Negara ya negara, agama ya agama. ya kan mBak? Salam RM D Hadinoto --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Carla Annamarie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: america memang bukan negara agama, tp negara america berdiri or founded by sekelompok org kristen puritan, makanya kalo dilihat dr dasar- dasar philosophy negaranya bnyk terkandung ajaran kristen. kalo dilihat sejarahnya, america adalah negara religious, tp dgn perkembangan jaman bnyk perubahan, sejak adanya amandemen pemisahan state affairs from religious affairs. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/BRUplB/TM ~- *** Berdikusi dg Santun Elegan, dg Semangat Persahabatan. Menuju Indonesia yg Lebih Baik, in Commonality Shared Destiny. www.ppi-india.uni.cc *** __ Mohon Perhatian: 1. Harap tdk. memposting/reply yg menyinggung SARA (kecuali sbg otokritik) 2. Pesan yg akan direply harap dihapus, kecuali yg akan dikomentari. 3. Lihat arsip sebelumnya, www.ppi-india.da.ru; 4. Posting: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 5. Satu email perhari: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 6. No-email/web only: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 7. kembali menerima email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ppiindia/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[ppiindia] Re: Amerika = Negara Krsiten ?
Mbak, dengan pekik juangnya El Pluribus Unum US adalah negara bhineka budaya dan agama, dan tak pernah merumuskan policy-nya bersandang pada kajian agama. US membela Kosovo dan Bosnia yang Muslim, dan membom Seebia yang Kristen. Lain kali membpom negara2 yang beragama lain. jadi tak ada kriteria keagamaan dalam perilaku US secara keseluruhan. Satu2nya kaitan US dengan religiousitas adalah ungkapan In God we trust. Kalau kita pelajari system hukum US yang termasuk kelompok system Anglo Saxon, maka kita lihat ketatnya azas sekularisme. Negara ya negara, agama ya agama. ya kan mBak? Salam RM D Hadinoto --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Carla Annamarie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: america memang bukan negara agama, tp negara america berdiri or founded by sekelompok org kristen puritan, makanya kalo dilihat dr dasar-dasar philosophy negaranya bnyk terkandung ajaran kristen. kalo dilihat sejarahnya, america adalah negara religious, tp dgn perkembangan jaman bnyk perubahan, sejak adanya amandemen pemisahan state affairs from religious affairs. partogi samosir [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ahoo.com cc: Subject: [ppiindia] Amerika = Negara Krsiten ? 11/01/2004 07:44 PM Please respond to ppiindia dear all, Sikap gereja di Amerika (yang mengesahkan pernikahan sesama jenis dan melantik seorang Gay menjadi pendeta) semakin menyadarkan kita bahwa Amerika bukan negara Kristen. Semua aksi dan policy Amerika bukan untuk kepentingan Kekristenan, tapi untuk kepentingan Amerika sendiri. togi dicky riyadi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Africans: Pro-Gay U.S. Church Follows New Religion Fri Oct 29,11:22 AM ET Top Stories - Reuters By Dino Mahtani LAGOS (Reuters) - African bishops representing a majority of the world's Anglicans said on Friday North American sections that embrace homosexuality should be seen as following a different religion. The statement by top Anglican clerics at a landmark conference in Nigeria to determine their future marked a growing separation between conservatives and liberals in the 70-million strong church. The bishops told their North American counterparts to repent and ask for forgiveness for approving same-sex marriages and consecrating Gene Robinson, a divorced homosexual and father of two, as a bishop. Failure to do so would indicate that they have chosen to 'walk alone' and follow another religion, said the statement issued by the senior clerics from across the continent. A report earlier this month by senior Anglican clergy urged North American congregations to ban same-sex marriages and the ordination of gay clergy, but stepped back from an outright condemnation of gays in a bid to reconcile the divisions. But African church leaders said it did not go far enough and accused the North American communions of subverting the faith and imposing a false doctrine. African bishops want their continent to become the new heartland of Anglicanism and Nigerian Primate Peter Akinola, Africa's top cleric, has said the Church of Nigeria aims to set up branches in the United States. Church leaders in Africa fear if Anglicanism fails to take a firm stance on homosexuality, its parishioners -- many of whom are traditionalists who cannot stomach the idea of gay bishops -- will desert it for evangelical churches or Islam. Earlier this week Nigerian President Olusegun Obasanjo -- a born- again Christian -- backed African bishops in rejecting homosexuality and called gay tendencies unbiblical, unnatural and definitely un-African. The bishops gathered in Nigeria have said they would not be swayed in their rejection of ordaining gays by the lure of church funds from the liberal West, despite Africa receiving 70 percent of its funds mainly from America. But church leaders say the split between African bishops and their American counterparts is not so much a
Re: [ppiindia] Re: Amerika = Negara Krsiten ?
Pak, it's true..i completely agree w/u.., yg saya jelaskan td adalah in american history..since the separation of state affairs from religious affairs, bnyk terjadi perubahan.., justru..pak, kalo tidak ada separation..n policy US berlandaskan ajaran kristen..mungkin pembom2an yang bapak sebutkan td malah ga da.. right? rm_danardono [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] oo.de cc: Subject: [ppiindia] Re: Amerika = Negara Krsiten ? 11/02/2004 03:11 PM Please respond to ppiindia Mbak, dengan pekik juangnya El Pluribus Unum US adalah negara bhineka budaya dan agama, dan tak pernah merumuskan policy-nya bersandang pada kajian agama. US membela Kosovo dan Bosnia yang Muslim, dan membom Seebia yang Kristen. Lain kali membpom negara2 yang beragama lain. jadi tak ada kriteria keagamaan dalam perilaku US secara keseluruhan. Satu2nya kaitan US dengan religiousitas adalah ungkapan In God we trust. Kalau kita pelajari system hukum US yang termasuk kelompok system Anglo Saxon, maka kita lihat ketatnya azas sekularisme. Negara ya negara, agama ya agama. ya kan mBak? Salam RM D Hadinoto --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Carla Annamarie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: america memang bukan negara agama, tp negara america berdiri or founded by sekelompok org kristen puritan, makanya kalo dilihat dr dasar-dasar philosophy negaranya bnyk terkandung ajaran kristen. kalo dilihat sejarahnya, america adalah negara religious, tp dgn perkembangan jaman bnyk perubahan, sejak adanya amandemen pemisahan state affairs from religious affairs. partogi samosir [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ahoo.com cc: Subject: [ppiindia] Amerika = Negara Krsiten ? 11/01/2004 07:44 PM Please respond to ppiindia dear all, Sikap gereja di Amerika (yang mengesahkan pernikahan sesama jenis dan melantik seorang Gay menjadi pendeta) semakin menyadarkan kita bahwa Amerika bukan negara Kristen. Semua aksi dan policy Amerika bukan untuk kepentingan Kekristenan, tapi untuk kepentingan Amerika sendiri. togi dicky riyadi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Africans: Pro-Gay U.S. Church Follows New Religion Fri Oct 29,11:22 AM ET Top Stories - Reuters By Dino Mahtani LAGOS (Reuters) - African bishops representing a majority of the world's Anglicans said on Friday North American sections that embrace homosexuality should be seen as following a different religion. The statement by top Anglican clerics at a landmark conference in Nigeria to determine their future marked a growing separation between conservatives and liberals in the 70-million strong church. The bishops told their North American counterparts to repent and ask for forgiveness for approving same-sex marriages and consecrating Gene Robinson, a divorced homosexual and father of two, as a bishop. Failure to do so would indicate that they have chosen to 'walk alone' and follow another religion, said the statement issued by the senior clerics from across the continent. A report earlier this month by senior Anglican clergy urged North American congregations to ban same-sex marriages and the ordination of gay clergy, but stepped back from an outright condemnation of gays in a bid to reconcile the divisions. But African church leaders said it did not go far enough and accused the North American communions of subverting the faith and imposing a false doctrine. African bishops want their continent to become the new heartland of Anglicanism and Nigerian Primate Peter Akinola, Africa's top cleric, has said the Church of Nigeria aims to set up branches in the United States. Church leaders in Africa fear if Anglicanism fails to take a firm stance on homosexuality, its parishioners -- many of whom are traditionalists who cannot stomach the idea of gay bishops
Re: [ppiindia] Re: Amerika = Negara Krsiten ?
apa ya alasan Amerika mengebom Afghanistan, Irak, dan memprovokasi Korea Utara... apa pula yg dikatakan ZA MAulani strategi mengepung China melalui Korea Selatan, Jepang, Australia... gua pingin tahu entar kalo amerika bangkrut, apa katamu... ya mas RM Danardhono. rm_danardono [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mbak, dengan pekik juangnya El Pluribus Unum US adalah negara bhineka budaya dan agama, dan tak pernah merumuskan policy-nya bersandang pada kajian agama. US membela Kosovo dan Bosnia yang Muslim, dan membom Seebia yang Kristen. Lain kali membpom negara2 yang beragama lain. jadi tak ada kriteria keagamaan dalam perilaku US secara keseluruhan. Satu2nya kaitan US dengan religiousitas adalah ungkapan In God we trust. Kalau kita pelajari system hukum US yang termasuk kelompok system Anglo Saxon, maka kita lihat ketatnya azas sekularisme. Negara ya negara, agama ya agama. ya kan mBak? Salam RM D Hadinoto --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Carla Annamarie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: america memang bukan negara agama, tp negara america berdiri or founded by sekelompok org kristen puritan, makanya kalo dilihat dr dasar-dasar philosophy negaranya bnyk terkandung ajaran kristen. kalo dilihat sejarahnya, america adalah negara religious, tp dgn perkembangan jaman bnyk perubahan, sejak adanya amandemen pemisahan state affairs from religious affairs. partogi samosir [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ahoo.com cc: Subject: [ppiindia] Amerika = Negara Krsiten ? 11/01/2004 07:44 PM Please respond to ppiindia dear all, Sikap gereja di Amerika (yang mengesahkan pernikahan sesama jenis dan melantik seorang Gay menjadi pendeta) semakin menyadarkan kita bahwa Amerika bukan negara Kristen. Semua aksi dan policy Amerika bukan untuk kepentingan Kekristenan, tapi untuk kepentingan Amerika sendiri. togi dicky riyadi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Africans: Pro-Gay U.S. Church Follows New Religion Fri Oct 29,11:22 AM ET Top Stories - Reuters By Dino Mahtani LAGOS (Reuters) - African bishops representing a majority of the world's Anglicans said on Friday North American sections that embrace homosexuality should be seen as following a different religion. The statement by top Anglican clerics at a landmark conference in Nigeria to determine their future marked a growing separation between conservatives and liberals in the 70-million strong church. The bishops told their North American counterparts to repent and ask for forgiveness for approving same-sex marriages and consecrating Gene Robinson, a divorced homosexual and father of two, as a bishop. Failure to do so would indicate that they have chosen to 'walk alone' and follow another religion, said the statement issued by the senior clerics from across the continent. A report earlier this month by senior Anglican clergy urged North American congregations to ban same-sex marriages and the ordination of gay clergy, but stepped back from an outright condemnation of gays in a bid to reconcile the divisions. But African church leaders said it did not go far enough and accused the North American communions of subverting the faith and imposing a false doctrine. African bishops want their continent to become the new heartland of Anglicanism and Nigerian Primate Peter Akinola, Africa's top cleric, has said the Church of Nigeria aims to set up branches in the United States. Church leaders in Africa fear if Anglicanism fails to take a firm stance on homosexuality, its parishioners -- many of whom are traditionalists who cannot stomach the idea of gay bishops -- will desert it for evangelical churches or Islam. Earlier this week Nigerian President Olusegun Obasanjo -- a born- again Christian -- backed African bishops in rejecting homosexuality and called gay tendencies unbiblical, unnatural and definitely un-African. The bishops gathered in
[ppiindia] Re: Amerika = Negara Krsiten ?
Pak, it's true..i completely agree w/u.., yg saya jelaskan td adalah in american history..since the separation of state affairs from religious affairs, bnyk terjadi perubahan.., justru..pak, kalo tidak ada separation..n policy US berlandaskan ajaran kristen..mungkin pembom2an yang bapak sebutkan td malah ga da.. right? rm_danardono [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] oo.de cc: Subject: [ppiindia] Re: Amerika = Negara Krsiten ? 11/02/2004 03:11 PM Please respond to ppiindia Mbak, dengan pekik juangnya El Pluribus Unum US adalah negara bhineka budaya dan agama, dan tak pernah merumuskan policy-nya bersandang pada kajian agama. US membela Kosovo dan Bosnia yang Muslim, dan membom Seebia yang Kristen. Lain kali membpom negara2 yang beragama lain. jadi tak ada kriteria keagamaan dalam perilaku US secara keseluruhan. Satu2nya kaitan US dengan religiousitas adalah ungkapan In God we trust. Kalau kita pelajari system hukum US yang termasuk kelompok system Anglo Saxon, maka kita lihat ketatnya azas sekularisme. Negara ya negara, agama ya agama. ya kan mBak? Salam RM D Hadinoto --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Carla Annamarie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: america memang bukan negara agama, tp negara america berdiri or founded by sekelompok org kristen puritan, makanya kalo dilihat dr dasar-dasar philosophy negaranya bnyk terkandung ajaran kristen. kalo dilihat sejarahnya, america adalah negara religious, tp dgn perkembangan jaman bnyk perubahan, sejak adanya amandemen pemisahan state affairs from religious affairs. partogi samosir [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ahoo.com cc: Subject: [ppiindia] Amerika = Negara Krsiten ? 11/01/2004 07:44 PM Please respond to ppiindia dear all, Sikap gereja di Amerika (yang mengesahkan pernikahan sesama jenis dan melantik seorang Gay menjadi pendeta) semakin menyadarkan kita bahwa Amerika bukan negara Kristen. Semua aksi dan policy Amerika bukan untuk kepentingan Kekristenan, tapi untuk kepentingan Amerika sendiri. togi dicky riyadi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Africans: Pro-Gay U.S. Church Follows New Religion Fri Oct 29,11:22 AM ET Top Stories - Reuters By Dino Mahtani LAGOS (Reuters) - African bishops representing a majority of the world's Anglicans said on Friday North American sections that embrace homosexuality should be seen as following a different religion. The statement by top Anglican clerics at a landmark conference in Nigeria to determine their future marked a growing separation between conservatives and liberals in the 70-million strong church. The bishops told their North American counterparts to repent and ask for forgiveness for approving same-sex marriages and consecrating Gene Robinson, a divorced homosexual and father of two, as a bishop. Failure to do so would indicate that they have chosen to 'walk alone' and follow another religion, said the statement issued by the senior clerics from across the continent. A report earlier this month by senior Anglican clergy urged North American congregations to ban same-sex marriages and the ordination of gay clergy, but stepped back from an outright condemnation of gays in a bid to reconcile the divisions. But African church leaders said it did not go far enough and accused the North American communions of subverting the faith and imposing a false doctrine. African bishops want their continent to become the new heartland of Anglicanism and Nigerian Primate Peter Akinola, Africa's top cleric, has said the Church of Nigeria aims to set up branches in the United States. Church leaders in Africa fear if Anglicanism fails to take a firm stance on homosexuality, its parishioners -- many of whom are traditionalists who cannot stomach the idea of gay bishops
Fw: [ppiindia] Re: Amerika = Negara Krsiten ? -- Kalau AS bukan negara Kristen, Indonesia juga bukan negara Islam.
PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 3:11 PM Subject: [ppiindia] Re: Amerika = Negara Krsiten ? Mbak, dengan pekik juangnya El Pluribus Unum US adalah negara bhineka budaya dan agama, dan tak pernah merumuskan policy-nya bersandang pada kajian agama. US membela Kosovo dan Bosnia yang Muslim, dan membom Seebia yang Kristen. Lain kali membpom negara2 yang beragama lain. jadi tak ada kriteria keagamaan dalam perilaku US secara keseluruhan. Satu2nya kaitan US dengan religiousitas adalah ungkapan In God we trust. Kalau kita pelajari system hukum US yang termasuk kelompok system Anglo Saxon, maka kita lihat ketatnya azas sekularisme. Negara ya negara, agama ya agama. ya kan mBak? Salam RM D Hadinoto --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Carla Annamarie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: america memang bukan negara agama, tp negara america berdiri or founded by sekelompok org kristen puritan, makanya kalo dilihat dr dasar-dasar philosophy negaranya bnyk terkandung ajaran kristen. kalo dilihat sejarahnya, america adalah negara religious, tp dgn perkembangan jaman bnyk perubahan, sejak adanya amandemen pemisahan state affairs from religious affairs. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/BRUplB/TM ~- *** Berdikusi dg Santun Elegan, dg Semangat Persahabatan. Menuju Indonesia yg Lebih Baik, in Commonality Shared Destiny. www.ppi-india.uni.cc *** __ Mohon Perhatian: 1. Harap tdk. memposting/reply yg menyinggung SARA (kecuali sbg otokritik) 2. Pesan yg akan direply harap dihapus, kecuali yg akan dikomentari. 3. Lihat arsip sebelumnya, www.ppi-india.da.ru; 4. Posting: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 5. Satu email perhari: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 6. No-email/web only: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 7. kembali menerima email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ppiindia/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [ppiindia] Re: Amerika = Negara Krsiten ? -- Kalau AS bukan negara Kristen, Indonesia juga bukan negara Islam.
Sulit memang mengembalikan segala sesuatu pada akar yang telah ditinggalkan. Jika direnungkan lagi berdirinya negara ini hanya bisa dicapai dengan persatuan sesama masyarakat terjajah dan hasilnya kita bangsa ini terbentuk dan berhasil mengusir penjajah Sekian tahun kemudian bangsa ini terbagi menjadi kelompok beragama dan komunis, alhasil kelompok beragama berhasil mengucilkan yang tidak beragama (komunis) Sepertinya belakangan muncul ide kelompok tertentu memisahkan diri berdasarkan agama Jika hal ini terus dibiarkan dan memang kemudian mereka berhasil maka dikemudian hari akan terjadi lagi pemisahan berdasarkan .suku. ras, ideologi, dan entah apa lagi Terkadang saya bertanya sendiri : Jika memang sorga itu ada untuk kedamaian tanpa batas kenapa untuk sang pencipta menghendaki manusia saling bunuh / hujat ...dll guna mencapai sorga yang dimaksud. - Original Message - From: Amir S. Dewana [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2004 7:54 AM Subject: Fw: [ppiindia] Re: Amerika = Negara Krsiten ? -- Kalau AS bukan negara Kristen, Indonesia juga bukan negara Islam. Yth: Bpk.RM Danardono HADINOTO mBak Carla Annamarie dan terutama para fans ppiindia di mana saja berada yang umumnya kaum muda yang terlahir jauh setelah Proklamasi. Apa khabarnya Pak Danardono. Masih ingat saya? Perkenankanlah saya mengegongi tukar info anda berdua. Dalam tataran perilaku, semacam 'E Pluribus Unum terutama di militer kita (dulu ABRI, sekarang TNI setelah Polisi dipisahkan) pantas diacungi jempol, paling tidak selama periode 1945 - medio 1992 (sampai dengan munculnya faksi Abri merah putih vs Abri hijau). Jabatan-jabatan tertinggi di militer/polisi kita bisa diduduki perwira kompeten mana saja tanpa pandang suku dan agamanya. Siapa tahu kalau Gatot Subroto yang punya ide mendirikan Akademi Milter Nasional/AMN adalah perwira AD yang beragama Buddha?? Panglima Besar Jenderal Soedirman, cikal bakal pimpinan militer RI, adalah sosok begawan militer dari lingkungan religius kental Muhammadiyah. RI pernah mempunyai Kepala Staf Angkatan Perang Jenderal Majoor (pangkat waktu itu) Tahi Bonar Simatupang yang bersuku Batak dan beragama Kristen Protestan. Juga Menhankam/Panglima Abri pernah dijabat oleh Jenderal Maraden Panggabean yang sosok Batak dan beragama Kristen Protestan. Jenderal TNI Try Sutrisno yang pernah menjadi Panglima Abri dan juga kemudian Wapres berasal dari lingkungan muslim santri yang kental. Saat inipun pimpinan tertinggi di Angkatan Laut adalah Laksamana Bernard Kent Sondakh, pria Minahasa yang beragama Kristen Protestan. Kepala Kepolisian RI juga pernah dijabat seorang beragama Kristen Protestan, yaitu Jenderal Polisi Widodo Budidarmo. Siapa penggagas terbentuknya satuan komando pada AD kita kalau bukan Brigjen TNI (Anumerta) Ignatius Slamet Rijadi, putra Jawa asal Surakarta yang beragama Katholik Roma. Dan Laksamana Muda (Anumerta) Yos[afat] Soedarso adalah Pahlawan Aru yang ditenggelamkan oleh Belanda di perairan Aru dalam rangka merebut Irian Barat dari Belanda di dalam apa yang disebut Operasi Trikora. Kita juga pernah mempunyai Menteri Pertambangan dan Energi Letnan Jenderal TNI (pur) Ida Bagus Sudjana yang bersuku Bali dan beragama Hindu Bali. Wakil Komandan Jenderal Komando Pasukan Khusus (dulu RPKAD) pernah dijabat oleh Brigadir Jenderal TNI Sang Nyoman Suwisma yang bersuku Bali dan beragama Hindu Bali. Yang saya sebutkan tadi di lingkungan militer/polisi yang bisa meniadakan preferensi atas dasar agama. Di jajaran birokrasi sipil pernah tidak kalah cemerlangnya. Sosok satu ini pernah menjadi Menteri Dalam Negeri, juga Menteri Luar Negeri; siapa dia kalau bukan Ida Anak Agung Gede Agung yang berasal dari Bali dan beragama Hindu Bali. Pada saat-saat puncak ketegangan dengan Belanda pasca Proklamasi Kemerdekaan RI, inilah Kepala Perwakilan RI di PBB New York, siapa lagi yang membela posisi RI kalau bukan Lambertus Nicodemus Palar yang asli Minahasa dan beragama Kristen Protestan. Kita pernah mempunyai Menteri Penerangan yang bukan bersuku Jawa, yaitu Arnold Mononutu yang asli Minahasa dan Kristen. Bahwa jajaran pimpinan di militer/polisi dan birokrasi sipil banyak yang beragama Islam adalah sangat wajar karena warga negara beragama Islam memang mayoritas. Pada lambang-lambang angkatan di militer RI seperti Kartika Eka Paksi (AD), Jalesveva Jayamahe (AL) dan Swa Bhuwana Paksa (AU), dan juga yang non-militer Rastra Sewakottama (Polisi) menunjukkan masih adanya apresiasi pada kejayaan Kerajaan Majapahit yang hinduistis. Bung Karno pernah oleh Belanda dibuang di Ende, Pulau Flores, Nusa tenggara Timur yang penduduknya umumnya beragama Katholik Roma. Bacalah buku Di Bawah Bendera Revolusi, seperti apa apresiasi Bung Karno kepada para padri Katholik Roma yang digambarkan sebagai orang yang suka bekerja. Setelah menguatnya Orde Baru di bawah pimpinan Jenderal Soeharto, ada trend sedikit demi sedikit preferensi atas
Re: [ppiindia] Re: Amerika = Negara Krsiten ?
Bagaimana dengan dukungan Amerika terhadap Israel yang begitu kuat dan tanpa syarat? Mungkin Bosnia itu karena orang Eropa maka harus diselamatkan. rm_danardono [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mbak, dengan pekik juangnya El Pluribus Unum US adalah negara bhineka budaya dan agama, dan tak pernah merumuskan policy-nya bersandang pada kajian agama. US membela Kosovo dan Bosnia yang Muslim, dan membom Seebia yang Kristen. Lain kali membpom negara2 yang beragama lain. jadi tak ada kriteria keagamaan dalam perilaku US secara keseluruhan. Satu2nya kaitan US dengan religiousitas adalah ungkapan In God we trust. Kalau kita pelajari system hukum US yang termasuk kelompok system Anglo Saxon, maka kita lihat ketatnya azas sekularisme. Negara ya negara, agama ya agama. ya kan mBak? Salam RM D Hadinoto --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Carla Annamarie wrote: america memang bukan negara agama, tp negara america berdiri or founded by sekelompok org kristen puritan, makanya kalo dilihat dr dasar-dasar philosophy negaranya bnyk terkandung ajaran kristen. kalo dilihat sejarahnya, america adalah negara religious, tp dgn perkembangan jaman bnyk perubahan, sejak adanya amandemen pemisahan state affairs from religious affairs. partogi samosir [EMAIL PROTECTED] ahoo.com cc: Subject: [ppiindia] Amerika = Negara Krsiten ? 11/01/2004 07:44 PM Please respond to ppiindia dear all, Sikap gereja di Amerika (yang mengesahkan pernikahan sesama jenis dan melantik seorang Gay menjadi pendeta) semakin menyadarkan kita bahwa Amerika bukan negara Kristen. Semua aksi dan policy Amerika bukan untuk kepentingan Kekristenan, tapi untuk kepentingan Amerika sendiri. togi dicky riyadi wrote: Africans: Pro-Gay U.S. Church Follows New Religion Fri Oct 29,11:22 AM ET Top Stories - Reuters By Dino Mahtani LAGOS (Reuters) - African bishops representing a majority of the world's Anglicans said on Friday North American sections that embrace homosexuality should be seen as following a different religion. The statement by top Anglican clerics at a landmark conference in Nigeria to determine their future marked a growing separation between conservatives and liberals in the 70-million strong church. The bishops told their North American counterparts to repent and ask for forgiveness for approving same-sex marriages and consecrating Gene Robinson, a divorced homosexual and father of two, as a bishop. Failure to do so would indicate that they have chosen to 'walk alone' and follow another religion, said the statement issued by the senior clerics from across the continent. A report earlier this month by senior Anglican clergy urged North American congregations to ban same-sex marriages and the ordination of gay clergy, but stepped back from an outright condemnation of gays in a bid to reconcile the divisions. But African church leaders said it did not go far enough and accused the North American communions of subverting the faith and imposing a false doctrine. African bishops want their continent to become the new heartland of Anglicanism and Nigerian Primate Peter Akinola, Africa's top cleric, has said the Church of Nigeria aims to set up branches in the United States. Church leaders in Africa fear if Anglicanism fails to take a firm stance on homosexuality, its parishioners -- many of whom are traditionalists who cannot stomach the idea of gay bishops -- will desert it for evangelical churches or Islam. Earlier this week Nigerian President Olusegun Obasanjo -- a born- again Christian -- backed African bishops in rejecting homosexuality and called gay tendencies unbiblical, unnatural and definitely un-African. The bishops gathered in Nigeria have said they would not be swayed in their rejection of ordaining gays by the lure of church funds from the liberal West, despite Africa receiving 70 percent of its funds mainly from America. But church leaders say the split between African bishops and their American counterparts is not so much a geographical division as a split between the liberal and conservative wings of the church. Already, conservatives in the same U.S. Episcopal Church that ordained Robinson have called his appointment schismatic. Many of the more liberal bishops in Africa, particularly from South Africa, have taken a softer approach to gays and have snubbed the conference in Nigeria. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ** * Berdikusi dg Santun Elegan, dg Semangat Persahabatan. Menuju Indonesia yg Lebih Baik, in Commonality Shared Destiny. www.ppi-india.uni.cc
