RE: [NF] The end of desktop software development?

2007-01-17 Thread Charlie Coleman
At 06:12 AM 1/10/2007 -0600, Stephen the Cook wrote:
...

 
  what the  on earth is desktop software development?

Software that is designed to run on the local pc.  WinForm vs Web in .net
speak.

...

Or smart vs. dumb for in PHB-speak.

;-)

-Charlie 



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RE: [NF] The end of desktop software development?

2007-01-17 Thread Stephen the Cook
Charlie Coleman  wrote:
 At 06:12 AM 1/10/2007 -0600, Stephen the Cook wrote:
 ...
 
 
 what the  on earth is desktop software development?
 
 Software that is designed to run on the local pc.  WinForm vs Web in
 .net speak.
 
 ...
 
 Or smart vs. dumb for in PHB-speak.
 
 ;-)

Probably more of portal vs. non shareable content.  

I see lots more of a push for the portal content for lots of people to work
with excel sheets that they have been doing for a long time.  At least that
is what I am seeing at my new day contract at least.


Stephen Russell
DBA / .Net Developer

Memphis TN 38115
901.246-0159

Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided
missiles and misguided men. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

http://spaces.msn.com/members/srussell/

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RE: [NF] The end of desktop software development?

2007-01-15 Thread Alan Bourke

On Fri, 12 Jan 2007 11:28:37 -0500, Hal Kaplan
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said:

 However could you please provide a
 definition for ...
 
 FIDDLINESS

Fiddly (Adjective) Awkward to do or use, requiring a degree of manual
dexterity

 
 FURTLE
 

Well, I used it in the South Yorkshire context of messing around with,
possibly in a furtive manner. However there is another very hilarious
usage of an adult nature. 
-- 
  Alan Bourke
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

-- 
http://www.fastmail.fm - IMAP accessible web-mail



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RE: [NF] The end of desktop software development?

2007-01-12 Thread Alan Bourke
When you can develop an application from start to finish without having
to ever worry about browser incompatibilities, the incredible fiddliness
of AJAX and ever having to even see HTML code let alone furtle it by
hand, etc, etc, THAT'S when the traditional desktop app will die. Long
way off yet.
-- 
  Alan Bourke
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

-- 
http://www.fastmail.fm - And now for something completely different…



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RE: [NF] The end of desktop software development?

2007-01-12 Thread Hal Kaplan
= Subject: RE: [NF] The end of desktop software development?
= 
= When you can develop an application from start to finish 
= without having to ever worry about browser 
= incompatibilities, the incredible fiddliness of AJAX and 
= ever having to even see HTML code let alone furtle it by 
= hand, etc, etc, THAT'S when the traditional desktop app will 
= die. Long way off yet.
= --
=   Alan Bourke

Bless you, Alan.  Very well put.  However could you please provide a definition 
for ...

FIDDLINESS

FURTLE

Thank you.  These are great words and a definition is in order, please.

B+
HALinNY


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RE: [NF] The end of desktop software development?

2007-01-12 Thread Dave Crozier
Alan and Hal,
I think that should be Fiddlyness and Furkle.

Must admit Furkle is good and I use it a lot - meaning to interfere with or
slightly tweak.

Anyway I'm going to grab my pizzle, check my merkin, Gold chest medallion
and Beegees teeth and head for home!

Have a good weeken all!

Dave Crozier


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Hal Kaplan
Sent: 12 January 2007 16:29
To: ProFox Email List
Subject: RE: [NF] The end of desktop software development?

= Subject: RE: [NF] The end of desktop software development?
= 
= When you can develop an application from start to finish 
= without having to ever worry about browser 
= incompatibilities, the incredible fiddliness of AJAX and 
= ever having to even see HTML code let alone furtle it by 
= hand, etc, etc, THAT'S when the traditional desktop app will 
= die. Long way off yet.
= --
=   Alan Bourke

Bless you, Alan.  Very well put.  However could you please provide a
definition for ...

FIDDLINESS

FURTLE

Thank you.  These are great words and a definition is in order, please.

B+
HALinNY


[excessive quoting removed by server]

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Re: [NF] The end of desktop software development?

2007-01-12 Thread Chet Gardiner
Nor have to depend on your phone or cable company connection!!!  (the 
swine!)

Alan Bourke wrote:

When you can develop an application from start to finish without having
to ever worry about browser incompatibilities, the incredible fiddliness
of AJAX and ever having to even see HTML code let alone furtle it by
hand, etc, etc, THAT'S when the traditional desktop app will die. Long
way off yet.
  



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Re: [NF] The end of desktop software development?

2007-01-11 Thread Man-wai CHANG
 Accordingly to what a KPMG consultant told the company I was working for ten
 years ago, the PC is dead and right now we all are using some sort of set
 top box or thin client.

Oracle said that before, didn't it?

-- 
  .~.   Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY. http://www.linux-sxs.org
 / v \  Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
/( _ )\ (Ubuntu 6.10)  Linux 2.6.19.1
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RE: [NF] The end of desktop software development?

2007-01-11 Thread Stephen the Cook
Man-wai CHANG  wrote:
 Accordingly to what a KPMG consultant told the company I was working
 for ten years ago, the PC is dead and right now we all are using some
 sort of set top box or thin client.
 
 Oracle said that before, didn't it?

Like IBM is today?


Stephen Russell
DBA / .Net Developer

Memphis TN 38115
901.246-0159

Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided
missiles and misguided men. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

http://spaces.msn.com/members/srussell/

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Re: [NF] The end of desktop software development?

2007-01-11 Thread MB Software Solutions
Man-wai CHANG wrote:
 Accordingly to what a KPMG consultant told the company I was working for ten
 years ago, the PC is dead and right now we all are using some sort of set
 top box or thin client.
 

 Oracle said that before, didn't it?

   
The term grid computing comes to mind for some reason.

-- 
Michael J. Babcock, MCP
MB Software Solutions, LLC
http://mbsoftwaresolutions.com
http://fabmate.com
Work smarter, not harder, with MBSS custom software solutions!



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RE: [NF] The end of desktop software development?

2007-01-11 Thread mrgmhale
 Oracle said that before, didn't it?

Over the past 23 years I have heard rumors and prophecies about PCs
vanishing in favor of Thin Client appliances, and huge
Intranet/Internet/Centralized Servers managing the entire computing
experience for all End Users.  The only thing that vanished for the most
part was the Thin Client appliances taking over the End User experience.
False start after false start, and millions of dollars made vainly in
Hype-Investment by those organizations deluded into thinking they were
certainly the perfect candidate for this brand new technology, only to
have their organizations reverting to the more expensive (but more useful)
PC-to-Server environment.

Thin Client can functionally (not merely technically) work in the proper
environment, but certainly not in all environments (or even most).  Yet
folks were tricked into thinking their company was perfect for Thin Net,
and the sales person pushing them into the new technology had no realistic
incentive to talk their customers out of a large commission expenditure.
Time and again I have seen companies lose focus as their Thin Net efforts
would crash and burn when trying to make Thin Net work at least as well as
their more conventional (and previously operational) PC-Server architecture.
So sad, yet funny as hell.  Lemmings.

I still remember Larry Ellison mouthing off about how Oracle was going to be
the company to finally make it happen.  Enough said about Oracle's impact
in making it happen I guess.  Long ago false prophets were stoned to death,
now they get rewarded for being dead wrong.  Nothing so new as something too
old (1-2 years) for the current management of a firm to be aware of in Thin
Net's previous existence(s).  Much less the reasons why the previous efforts
met with failure for so many organizations.  I have become very cautious
about adopting any new technology (or Windows O/S) until it has been in
the retail market for about 2 years.  No more being the first in the water,
'cuz that be where the sharks lurk...

Gil

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Man-wai CHANG
 Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 6:40 AM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: [NF] The end of desktop software development?


  Accordingly to what a KPMG consultant told the company I was
 working for ten
  years ago, the PC is dead and right now we all are using some
 sort of set
  top box or thin client.

 Oracle said that before, didn't it?

 --
   .~.   Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY. http://www.linux-sxs.org
  / v \  Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
 /( _ )\ (Ubuntu 6.10)  Linux 2.6.19.1
   ^ ^   19:39:02 up 30 days 1:51 0 users load average: 4.41 3.96 2.78
 news://news.3home.net news://news.hkpcug.org news://news.newsgroup.com.hk


[excessive quoting removed by server]

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Re: [NF] The end of desktop software development?

2007-01-10 Thread Man-wai CHANG
 His thesis, that rapid development, test-driven development, SOA,
 scripting, and web-based updates are restricted to apps within the
 browser is just missing the boat. He's confusing the implementation
 with the architecture, imo.

what the  on earth is desktop software development?


-- 
  .~.   Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY. http://www.linux-sxs.org
 / v \  Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
/( _ )\ (Ubuntu 6.10)  Linux 2.6.19.1
  ^ ^   19:29:01 up 29 days 1:41 0 users load average: 1.02 1.02 1.00
news://news.3home.net news://news.hkpcug.org news://news.newsgroup.com.hk


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RE: [NF] The end of desktop software development?

2007-01-10 Thread Dave Crozier
About 90% of what all VFP development covers!

Dave Crozier

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Man-wai CHANG
Sent: 10 January 2007 11:30
To: profox@leafe.com
Subject: Re: [NF] The end of desktop software development?

 His thesis, that rapid development, test-driven development, SOA,
 scripting, and web-based updates are restricted to apps within the
 browser is just missing the boat. He's confusing the implementation
 with the architecture, imo.

what the  on earth is desktop software development?


-- 
  .~.   Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY. http://www.linux-sxs.org
 / v \  Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
/( _ )\ (Ubuntu 6.10)  Linux 2.6.19.1
  ^ ^   19:29:01 up 29 days 1:41 0 users load average: 1.02 1.02 1.00
news://news.3home.net news://news.hkpcug.org news://news.newsgroup.com.hk


[excessive quoting removed by server]

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RE: [NF] The end of desktop software development?

2007-01-10 Thread Stephen the Cook
Man-wai CHANG  wrote:
 His thesis, that rapid development, test-driven development, SOA,
 scripting, and web-based updates are restricted to apps within the
 browser is just missing the boat. He's confusing the implementation
 with the architecture, imo.
 
 what the  on earth is desktop software development?

Software that is designed to run on the local pc.  WinForm vs Web in .net
speak.


Stephen Russell
DBA / .Net Developer

Memphis TN 38115
901.246-0159

Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided
missiles and misguided men. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

http://spaces.msn.com/members/srussell/

-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.7/620 - Release Date: 1/8/2007
4:12 PM
 



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RE: [NF] The end of desktop software development?

2007-01-10 Thread Adam Buckland
Dave,

Out of interest 80 - 90%% of my Foxpro programs run in batch overnight
on a server with no visual interface (Prob why VS6 is still good for my
needs); is this your mythical 10% or are you thinking in a client server
model?

::a


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Dave Crozier
Sent: 10 January 2007 12:09
To: 'ProFox Email List'
Subject: RE: [NF] The end of desktop software development?

About 90% of what all VFP development covers!

Dave Crozier

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf
Of Man-wai CHANG
Sent: 10 January 2007 11:30
To: profox@leafe.com
Subject: Re: [NF] The end of desktop software development?

 His thesis, that rapid development, test-driven development, SOA,
 scripting, and web-based updates are restricted to apps within the
 browser is just missing the boat. He's confusing the implementation
 with the architecture, imo.

what the  on earth is desktop software development?


-- 
  .~.   Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY. http://www.linux-sxs.org
 / v \  Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
/( _ )\ (Ubuntu 6.10)  Linux 2.6.19.1
  ^ ^   19:29:01 up 29 days 1:41 0 users load average: 1.02 1.02 1.00
news://news.3home.net news://news.hkpcug.org
news://news.newsgroup.com.hk


[excessive quoting removed by server]

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RE: [NF] The end of desktop software development?

2007-01-10 Thread Dave Crozier
Adam,
I was thinking of any applications that run ON as client as opposed to in
Client server mode. I guess that you can fall into either camp with that
setup!

You must miss the joy (not) of designing pretty user interfaces for petty
users who don't know their a*ses from their elbows. BG

Dave Crozier

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Adam Buckland
Sent: 10 January 2007 12:17
To: ProFox Email List
Subject: RE: [NF] The end of desktop software development?

Dave,

Out of interest 80 - 90%% of my Foxpro programs run in batch overnight
on a server with no visual interface (Prob why VS6 is still good for my
needs); is this your mythical 10% or are you thinking in a client server
model?

::a


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Dave Crozier
Sent: 10 January 2007 12:09
To: 'ProFox Email List'
Subject: RE: [NF] The end of desktop software development?

About 90% of what all VFP development covers!

Dave Crozier

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf
Of Man-wai CHANG
Sent: 10 January 2007 11:30
To: profox@leafe.com
Subject: Re: [NF] The end of desktop software development?

 His thesis, that rapid development, test-driven development, SOA,
 scripting, and web-based updates are restricted to apps within the
 browser is just missing the boat. He's confusing the implementation
 with the architecture, imo.

what the  on earth is desktop software development?


-- 
  .~.   Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY. http://www.linux-sxs.org
 / v \  Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
/( _ )\ (Ubuntu 6.10)  Linux 2.6.19.1
  ^ ^   19:29:01 up 29 days 1:41 0 users load average: 1.02 1.02 1.00
news://news.3home.net news://news.hkpcug.org
news://news.newsgroup.com.hk


[excessive quoting removed by server]

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Re: [NF] The end of desktop software development?

2007-01-10 Thread Man-wai CHANG

Did he mean we are moving back to mainframe era, now called servers?

-- 
  .~.   Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY. http://www.linux-sxs.org
 / v \  Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
/( _ )\ (Ubuntu 6.10)  Linux 2.6.19.1
  ^ ^   20:58:01 up 29 days 3:10 0 users load average: 1.00 1.00 1.00
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RE: [NF] The end of desktop software development?

2007-01-10 Thread vbiersch

I got a kick out of this one because I've seen both sides and it allways amazes 
me when developers develop something without understanding the business process 
from end to end
-Original Message-

From:  Dave Crozier [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subj:  RE: [NF] The end of desktop software development?
Date:  Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:28 am
Size:  2K
To:  'ProFox Email List' profox@leafe.com

Adam,
I was thinking of any applications that run ON as client as opposed to in
Client server mode. I guess that you can fall into either camp with that
setup!

You must miss the joy (not) of designing pretty user interfaces for petty
users who don't know their a*ses from their elbows. BG

Dave Crozier

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Adam Buckland
Sent: 10 January 2007 12:17
To: ProFox Email List
Subject: RE: [NF] The end of desktop software development?

Dave,

Out of interest 80 - 90%% of my Foxpro programs run in batch overnight
on a server with no visual interface (Prob why VS6 is still good for my
needs); is this your mythical 10% or are you thinking in a client server
model?

::a


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Dave Crozier
Sent: 10 January 2007 12:09
To: 'ProFox Email List'
Subject: RE: [NF] The end of desktop software development?

About 90% of what all VFP development covers!

Dave Crozier

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf
Of Man-wai CHANG
Sent: 10 January 2007 11:30
To: profox@leafe.com
Subject: Re: [NF] The end of desktop software development?

 His thesis, that rapid development, test-driven development, SOA,
 scripting, and web-based updates are restricted to apps within the
 browser is just missing the boat. He's confusing the implementation
 with the architecture, imo.

what the  on earth is desktop software development?


-- 
  .~.   Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY. http://www.linux-sxs.org
 / v \  Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
/( _ )\ (Ubuntu 6.10)  Linux 2.6.19.1
  ^ ^   19:29:01 up 29 days 1:41 0 users load average: 1.02 1.02 1.00
news://news.3home.net news://news.hkpcug.org
news://news.newsgroup.com.hk


[excessive quoting removed by server]

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Re: [NF] The end of desktop software development?

2007-01-10 Thread Peter Cushing
Dave Crozier wrote:
 You must miss the joy (not) of designing pretty user interfaces for petty
 users who don't know their a*ses from their elbows. BG
   
Have you got any pretty users Dave? tell me more ;-)

Peter



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Re: [NF] The end of desktop software development?

2007-01-10 Thread Jean Laeremans
On 1/10/07, Peter Cushing [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Dave Crozier wrote:
  You must miss the joy (not) of designing pretty user interfaces for petty
  users who don't know their a*ses from their elbows. BG
 
 Have you got any pretty users Dave? tell me more ;-)

 Peter

petty # pretty...unfortunately...

A+
jml


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RE: [NF] The end of desktop software development?

2007-01-10 Thread Tristan Leask
I dunno! I know some pretty lasses that are a bit petty at times.

BG

Tristan

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Jean Laeremans
Posted At: 10 January 2007 14:56
Posted To: Profox Archive
Conversation: [NF] The end of desktop software development?
Subject: Re: [NF] The end of desktop software development?


petty # pretty...unfortunately...

A+
jml

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Re: [NF] The end of desktop software development?

2007-01-10 Thread Peter Cushing
Jean Laeremans wrote:
 petty # pretty...unfortunately...

   
Oops... should have

SET DYSLEXIA OFF

before sending

Peter



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Re: [NF] The end of desktop software development?

2007-01-10 Thread Helio W.
Accordingly to what a KPMG consultant told the company I was working for ten
years ago, the PC is dead and right now we all are using some sort of set
top box or thin client.


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RE: [NF] The end of desktop software development?

2007-01-10 Thread Dave Crozier
Peter,
You obviously also need:

Set GoForVisionTest ON

Before posting!

Dave Crozier

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Peter Cushing
Sent: 10 January 2007 15:02
To: profox@leafe.com
Subject: Re: [NF] The end of desktop software development?

Jean Laeremans wrote:
 petty # pretty...unfortunately...

   
Oops... should have

SET DYSLEXIA OFF

before sending

Peter



[excessive quoting removed by server]

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Re: [NF] The end of desktop software development?

2007-01-10 Thread Jean Laeremans
On 1/10/07, Dave Crozier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Peter,
 You obviously also need:

 Set GoForVisionTest ON

 Before posting!

 Dave Crozier

Or more likely :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freudian_slip

A+
jml


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Re: [NF] The end of desktop software development?

2007-01-10 Thread Mark Stanton
 petty # pretty...unfortunately...

It does too often for my liking...

Mark




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[NF] The end of desktop software development?

2007-01-09 Thread Ted Roche
Expect 2007 to mark the beginning of the end of desktop software development,

http://www.infoworld.com/article/07/01/08/02FEspendappdev_1.html

or http://tinyurl.com/yj34qv

His thesis, that rapid development, test-driven development, SOA,
scripting, and web-based updates are restricted to apps within the
browser is just missing the boat. He's confusing the implementation
with the architecture, imo.

-- 
Ted Roche
Ted Roche  Associates, LLC
http://www.tedroche.com


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Re: [NF] The end of desktop software development?

2007-01-09 Thread Eugene Vital
Ted Roche wrote:
 Expect 2007 to mark the beginning of the end of desktop software 
 development,

 http://www.infoworld.com/article/07/01/08/02FEspendappdev_1.html

 or http://tinyurl.com/yj34qv

 His thesis, that rapid development, test-driven development, SOA,
 scripting, and web-based updates are restricted to apps within the
 browser is just missing the boat. He's confusing the implementation
 with the architecture, imo.
   
  The artical as a whole doesn't have any substance to it. A lot
of buzzwords, that's about it. In fact the more I read it the less it
makes sense to me.




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