Re: [NF] Energy from a hot rock

[Chet Gardiner]

"There are just two major catches. First, about $800 million in research 
and development is needed over the next decade to make the drilling 
technology cost-effective. Second, the Department of Energy is trying to 
kill the program by ending its funding."

Yep, the bushies would rather spend the $800M for 3 1/2 DAYS of their 
dirty little war...


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

>
>
>Steam from the ground is a tad safer then nuclear cesspools don't you think?
>
>__Stephen
>
>
[excessive quoting removed by server]

___
Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com
Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox
OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech
** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the 
author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added 
to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.

Re: [NF] Energy from a hot rock

[Michael Madigan]

I've been hearing about geothermal since I did a
report on it in 4Th grade.  It ain't ever going to
happen here.  

Solar and Wind work now and should be on everyone's
homes shortly.

By the way, we've cut our house gas and electric bills
by $600 this year.  We did it by only cooling and
heating the rooms we were in.  We bought electric
space heaters and window air conditioners all with
digital thermostats.  Our rooms were 74 degrees in the
summer and 68 in the winter.

That represents an 18% drop in energy use.  

This year we're going to insulate our walls, which
have no insulation in them due to the age of the
house, and put a lot more insulation in our attic. 
that should cut another 20% off our bill.


___
Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com
Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox
OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech
** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the 
author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added 
to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.

RE: [NF] Energy from a hot rock

[mrgmhale]

We have been looking at Geo-Thermal Exchange units to cool & heat our place.
I doubt the cooling would handle 100% of the heat load with all our computer
equipment, but a nice supplement.  It should handle the heating nicely in
the few months we need heating (now, for instance).  Up Front costs are
high, and I have other issues and obligations I want to wrap up before
sinking $7k into the system, and about $5k into installation.  The payback
"on paper" was 5-6 years last year.  Based on this year's pricing for
electricity and natural gas it is about 1 year less.  I have been looking
for state or federal tax credit programs, but only "Geo-Thermal" units are
approved for that.  The less costly Geo-Thermal Exchange units are not
considered to be the same thing, although in principle they exchange energy
with Mother Earth.  Our monthly average heating/cooling billing just jumped
to $560 from $335!  Still, working from the home and saving on building
rent, etc., makes it hard to bitch about it.

Ciao!

Gil
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Michael Madigan
> Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 8:15 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [NF] Energy from a hot rock
>
>
> I've been hearing about geothermal since I did a
> report on it in 4Th grade.  It ain't ever going to
> happen here.
>
> Solar and Wind work now and should be on everyone's
> homes shortly.
>
> By the way, we've cut our house gas and electric bills
> by $600 this year.  We did it by only cooling and
> heating the rooms we were in.  We bought electric
> space heaters and window air conditioners all with
> digital thermostats.  Our rooms were 74 degrees in the
> summer and 68 in the winter.
>
> That represents an 18% drop in energy use.
>
> This year we're going to insulate our walls, which
> have no insulation in them due to the age of the
> house, and put a lot more insulation in our attic.
> that should cut another 20% off our bill.
>
>
[excessive quoting removed by server]

___
Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com
Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox
OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech
** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the 
author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added 
to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.

RE: [NF] Energy from a hot rock

[Stephen the Cook]

Michael Madigan <> wrote:
> I've been hearing about geothermal since I did a report on it in 4Th
> grade.  It ain't ever going to happen here. 

Nature really does a good job in the heating of water in some areas.  Take
natural hot springs and get the water to pump from much lower.   
 
> Solar and Wind work now and should be on everyone's homes shortly.

Your kidding right?  Solar is over rated, having lived in a solar house in
North AZ.  Your either in collecting mode in the winter, but then your
design is in collecting mode and summer is very hot.



> By the way, we've cut our house gas and electric bills by $600 this
> year.  We did it by only cooling and heating the rooms we were in. 
> We bought electric space heaters and window air conditioners all with
> digital thermostats.  Our rooms were 74 degrees in the summer and 68
> in the winter.
> 
> That represents an 18% drop in energy use.
> 
> This year we're going to insulate our walls, which have no insulation
> in them due to the age of the house, and put a lot more insulation in
> our attic.  
> that should cut another 20% off our bill.

That is great!  How are your windows?  You can loose a great deal of energy
through your glass.  Maybe putting in new ones that are a thermal barrier
could help.  We put some in and it's much warmer then the older ones.  That
is using a thermometer in front of them as a gauge.  It helps a  lot in the
summer for us. 

Stephen Russell
DBA / .Net Developer

Memphis TN 38115
901.246-0159

"A good way to judge people is by observing how they treat those who
can do them absolutely no good." ---Unknown

http://spaces.msn.com/members/srussell/

-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.29/673 - Release Date: 2/6/2007
5:52 PM
 



___
Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com
Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox
OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech
** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the 
author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added 
to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.

Re: [NF] Energy from a hot rock

[Pete Theisen]

On Wednesday 07 February 2007 8:15 pm, Michael Madigan wrote:
> I've been hearing about geothermal since I did a
> report on it in 4Th grade.  It ain't ever going to
> happen here.
>
> Solar and Wind work now and should be on everyone's
> homes shortly.
>
> By the way, we've cut our house gas and electric bills
> by $600 this year.  We did it by only cooling and
> heating the rooms we were in.  We bought electric
> space heaters and window air conditioners all with
> digital thermostats.  Our rooms were 74 degrees in the
> summer and 68 in the winter.

Hi Michael!

I die at 74, and I freeze at 68. I tolerate those temps outside, but not 
inside.
-- 
Regards,

Pete
http://www.pete-theisen.com/


___
Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com
Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox
OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech
** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the 
author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added 
to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.

RE: [NF] Energy from a hot rock

[Michael Madigan]

I was talking about photo-voltaic, not heating with
solar energy.

We surely need new windows, but they are really
expensive and seem to have a fairly high payback time.
 But, after we insulate the walls and roof, that will
be the next logical step.  They will also keep the
sound out better too.


--- Stephen the Cook <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> Michael Madigan <> wrote:
> > I've been hearing about geothermal since I did a
> report on it in 4Th
> > grade.  It ain't ever going to happen here. 
> 
> Nature really does a good job in the heating of
> water in some areas.  Take
> natural hot springs and get the water to pump from
> much lower.   
>  
> > Solar and Wind work now and should be on
> everyone's homes shortly.
> 
> Your kidding right?  Solar is over rated, having
> lived in a solar house in
> North AZ.  Your either in collecting mode in the
> winter, but then your
> design is in collecting mode and summer is very hot.
> 
> 
> 
> > By the way, we've cut our house gas and electric
> bills by $600 this
> > year.  We did it by only cooling and heating the
> rooms we were in. 
> > We bought electric space heaters and window air
> conditioners all with
> > digital thermostats.  Our rooms were 74 degrees in
> the summer and 68
> > in the winter.
> > 
> > That represents an 18% drop in energy use.
> > 
> > This year we're going to insulate our walls, which
> have no insulation
> > in them due to the age of the house, and put a lot
> more insulation in
> > our attic.  
> > that should cut another 20% off our bill.
> 
> That is great!  How are your windows?  You can loose
> a great deal of energy
> through your glass.  Maybe putting in new ones that
> are a thermal barrier
> could help.  We put some in and it's much warmer
> then the older ones.  That
> is using a thermometer in front of them as a gauge. 
> It helps a  lot in the
> summer for us. 
> 
> Stephen Russell
> DBA / .Net Developer
> 
> Memphis TN 38115
> 901.246-0159
> 
> "A good way to judge people is by observing how they
> treat those who
> can do them absolutely no good." ---Unknown
> 
> http://spaces.msn.com/members/srussell/
> 
> -- 
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.29/673 -
> Release Date: 2/6/2007
> 5:52 PM
>  
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com
> Subscription Maintenance:
> http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox
> OT-free version of this list:
> http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech
> ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise,
> are the opinions of the author, and do not
> constitute legal or medical advice. This statement
> is added to the messages for those lawyers who are
> too stupid to see the obvious.
> 



___
Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com
Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox
OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech
** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the 
author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added 
to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.

Re: [NF] Energy from a hot rock

[Michael Hawksworth]

Interesting that you thought first of air con then insulation, In 
Europe/North Africa it would be the other way around with even 
traditional homes in areas with very warm/cold temps using thick walls 
to insulate the inside and 'modern' housing using various forms of 
insulation.

Even if you look at wooden housing the Nordic development methods offer 
far better insulation as standard than the most developments outside Europe.

Just out of curiosity, how much would you save if you turned off the air 
con?

-- 
Michael Hawksworth
Visual Fox Solutions

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.foxpro.co.uk





___
Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com
Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox
OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech
** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the 
author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added 
to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.

RE: [NF] Energy from a hot rock

[John Weller]

Geothermal is a big thing in Rotorua, New Zealand with the houses having
geothermally heated hot water, etc.  Unfortunately the demand is now so
great that the geysers which are a major tourist attraction are being
adversely affected.  Even geothermal energy has its limits.

John Weller
01380 723235
07976 393631


> I've been hearing about geothermal since I did a
> report on it in 4Th grade.  It ain't ever going to
> happen here.

>



___
Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com
Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox
OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech
** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the 
author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added 
to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.

Re: [NF] Energy from a hot rock

[Steven Holt]

Geothermal mixed with a heat pump which I think is what you are talking about 
is a highly viable technology in most areas of the country for both heating and 
cooling, working off the relatively shallow depths where the earth stays an 
average of 55 degrees.  Straight air to air heat pumps can become far less 
efficient at very low outside air temperatures.  This is a vastly different 
system from what you may have heard about in school - drilling for magma heated 
steam.  Which is presently practical mostly at an industrial scale in areas 
where geologically speaking there was near surface magma or relatively recent 
surface lava.  With this said, 9 out of 10 houses in Iceland are heated by 
geothermal systems.  NPR just ran a story about a laser drill bit for digging 
down miles for the ubiquitous deep geothermal heat, but this is presently just 
a pipe dream.  Ouch!   

For retrofits, your best initial investment is almost invariably in insulation 
and surprisingly storm windows are usually better insulation than even the 
highest r value, low e argon filled double pane glass windows coming in at 
about r-6.  It may be a real pain, but you can always add low e argon after the 
more inexpensive storms. 

Solar domestic water heating is a mature technology that often has the fastest 
payback, also look for any tax incentives in your state or potentially coming 
at the federal level. 

My personal preference for new construction is passive solar with super 
insulation in the form of plastered straw bales for wall construction.  If you 
are not in the southwest where it is becoming more commonplace, you may get the 
unmitigated joy of educating the county's building department and inspectors.  

As to the bad solar experience it sounds like you had a design with 
insufficient: provision for summer shading, thermal mass and insulation.  Not 
all areas will have enough sun when needed but in the sunny southwest it is 
very possible to do most if not all heating and a hell of a lot of your cooling 
via thermal mass with nocturnal cooling.  Walls made of stacked tires filled 
with dirt - the earth ship method - are great for down there (but lots and lots 
of backbreaking work).
 
For electricity, personal wind power is great for limited good wind sites, 
particularly if you have the room for a tower to fall.  Solar is presently 
expensive per kwh but will probably be coming down fast as thin film newspaper 
style printing technology comes on line.  Google based investors have a large 
plant in the works.   If you can grid tie to the power company with either 
locally, you won't need banks of expensive relatively short lived batteries, 
your electric meter spins backwards and that must simply be a fantastic 
feeling.  Unfortunately, grid tie inverters are not particularly cheap. 
  
Best,

Steve

Steven Holt 
  http://stockpix.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



___
Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com
Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox
OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech
** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the 
author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added 
to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.

Re: [NF] Energy from a hot rock

[Andy Davies]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Mohole

(yes, I *am* old enough to remember it!)

Andrew Davies  MBCS CITP
  - AndyD    8-)#


**

This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended 
solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If 
you have received this email in error please notify the system manager.

This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by 
MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses.

Please contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] with any queries.

**



___
Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com
Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox
OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech
** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the 
author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added 
to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.

Re: [NF] Energy from a hot rock

[Pete Theisen]

On Thursday 08 February 2007 3:17 am, Michael Hawksworth wrote:
> Interesting that you thought first of air con then insulation, In
> Europe/North Africa it would be the other way around with even
> traditional homes in areas with very warm/cold temps using thick walls
> to insulate the inside and 'modern' housing using various forms of
> insulation.
>
> Even if you look at wooden housing the Nordic development methods offer
> far better insulation as standard than the most developments outside
> Europe.
>
> Just out of curiosity, how much would you save if you turned off the air
> con?

Hi Michael!

This may be an option in the UK as Northern as it is, but where Michael is 
that wouldn't work unless he wanted to spend summers outside - which is what 
people used to do.

Crime and lack of privacy nowadays makes this impossible.
-- 
Regards,

Pete
http://www.pete-theisen.com/


___
Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com
Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox
OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech
** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the 
author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added 
to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.

Re: [NF] Energy from a hot rock

[Michael Hawksworth]

They didn't (and largely still don't) have air con in rural Itally and 
north africa for example.  Thick walls and tiles being used to reduce 
the internal heat.

-- 
Michael Hawksworth
Visual Fox Solutions

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.foxpro.co.uk





___
Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com
Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox
OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech
** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the 
author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added 
to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.

RE: [NF] Energy from a hot rock

[David Crooks]

On Thursday, February 08, 2007 6:07 AM Steven Holt wrote:

My comments in line:

>Geothermal mixed with a heat pump which I think is what you are talking
about is a highly viable >technology in most areas of the country for
both heating and cooling, working off the relatively >shallow depths
where the earth stays an average of 55 degrees.  Straight air to air
heat pumps 
>can become far less efficient at very low outside air temperatures.
This is a vastly different >system from what you may have heard about in
school - drilling for magma heated steam.  Which is >presently practical
mostly at an industrial scale in areas where geologically speaking there
was >near surface magma or relatively recent surface lava.  With this
said, 9 out of 10 houses in 
>Iceland are heated by geothermal systems.  NPR just ran a story about a
laser drill bit for 
>digging down miles for the ubiquitous deep geothermal heat, but this is
presently just a pipe 
>dream.  Ouch!   

I heard of a gentleman on the Eastern Shore of Maryland that spent $20K
for geothermal for his 6,000 sqft house.  Seems like he would have to
live there for many years before getting a payback on that investment.

>For retrofits, your best initial investment is almost invariably in
insulation and surprisingly >storm windows are usually better insulation
than even the highest r value, low e argon filled 
>double pane glass windows coming in at about r-6.  It may be a real
pain, but you can always add >low e argon after the more inexpensive
storms. 

I agree that windows do make a difference.

>Solar domestic water heating is a mature technology that often has the
fastest payback, also 
>look for any tax incentives in your state or potentially coming at the
federal level. 

In my situation, I have a well/pump that costs about $35-50 a month to
run so that we have water.  I looked into running that by solar and it
was not cost efficient.  Plus, Virginia gives me no tax breaks.

>My personal preference for new construction is passive solar with super
insulation in the form 
>of plastered straw bales for wall construction.  If you are not in the
southwest where it is 
>becoming more commonplace, you may get the unmitigated joy of educating
the county's building 
>department and inspectors.  

I had not heard of straw bales for insulation.  Our builder has one of
the form machines to spray into the walls.

>As to the bad solar experience it sounds like you had a design with
insufficient: provision for >summer shading, thermal mass and
insulation.  Not all areas will have enough sun when needed but >in the
sunny southwest it is very possible to do most if not all heating and a
hell of a lot of >your cooling via thermal mass with nocturnal cooling.
Walls made of stacked tires filled with 
>dirt - the earth ship method - are great for down there (but lots and
lots of backbreaking 
>work).
 
>For electricity, personal wind power is great for limited good wind
sites, particularly if you 
>have the room for a tower to fall.  Solar is presently expensive per
kwh but will probably be 
>coming down fast as thin film newspaper style printing technology comes
on line.  Google based 
>investors have a large plant in the works.   If you can grid tie to the
power company with 
>either locally, you won't need banks of expensive relatively short
lived batteries, your 
>electric meter spins backwards and that must simply be a fantastic
feeling.  Unfortunately, grid >tie inverters are not particularly cheap.


Thanks for the information!
  
David L. Crooks


___
Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com
Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox
OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech
** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the 
author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added 
to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.

Re: [NF] Energy from a hot rock

[Ed Leafe]

On Feb 8, 2007, at 10:17 AM, David Crooks wrote:

> I heard of a gentleman on the Eastern Shore of Maryland that spent  
> $20K
> for geothermal for his 6,000 sqft house.  Seems like he would have to
> live there for many years before getting a payback on that investment.

That's true, but it probably also increased the value of his house.  
Being able to sell a home with minimal heating/cooling requirements  
is a big plus.

-- Ed Leafe
-- http://leafe.com
-- http://dabodev.com




___
Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com
Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox
OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech
** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the 
author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added 
to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.

Re: [NF] Energy from a hot rock

[Garrett Fitzgerald]

On 2/7/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> 
>
> Steam from the ground is a tad safer then nuclear cesspools don't you
> think?


I sent a letter to the President  (Carter? Don't think I would have bothered
with Reagan) when I was younger, suggesting exactly this. :-)

Not claiming credit or anything, just pointing out that I haven't always
been st00pid. :-)


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---


___
Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com
Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox
OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech
** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the 
author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added 
to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.

Re: [NF] Energy from a hot rock

[Nicholas Geti]

> That's true, but it probably also increased the value of his house.
> Being able to sell a home with minimal heating/cooling requirements
> is a big plus.
>
> -- Ed Leafe

I find that the argument of "raising the value of your house is a good 
thing" to be extremely bogus. It only applies to when you sell your house. 
If you don't intend to sell your house for a long time, you don't want to 
increase the value; it only raises your taxes which are never recovered when 
you do finally decide to sell.

You should think of making changes to your home as a personal pleasure or 
convenience thing, not that it raises the value of your house. I get tired 
of politicians and contractors using the argument that their services will 
raise my house's value. They are only trying to get something for 
themselves.



___
Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com
Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox
OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech
** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the 
author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added 
to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.

Re: [NF] Energy from a hot rock

[Ed Leafe]

On Feb 8, 2007, at 10:34 AM, Nicholas Geti wrote:

> I find that the argument of "raising the value of your house is a good
> thing" to be extremely bogus. It only applies to when you sell your  
> house.
> If you don't intend to sell your house for a long time, you don't  
> want to
> increase the value; it only raises your taxes which are never  
> recovered when
> you do finally decide to sell.

Your point was that the person would have to stay in the house a  
long time in order to recover the cost. My point was that the cost  
would be recovered either by a) staying in the house a long time or  
b) staying in a short time and then selling. Your objection to having  
to stay a long time certainly implies selling it when that stay is  
over, doesn't it?

-- Ed Leafe
-- http://leafe.com
-- http://dabodev.com




___
Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com
Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox
OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech
** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the 
author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added 
to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.

Re: [NF] Energy from a hot rock

[Nicholas Geti]

> Your point was that the person would have to stay in the house a
> long time in order to recover the cost. My point was that the cost
> would be recovered either by a) staying in the house a long time or
> b) staying in a short time and then selling. Your objection to having
> to stay a long time certainly implies selling it when that stay is
> over, doesn't it?
>
> -- Ed Leafe
> -- http://leafe.com
> -- http://dabodev.com

Actually I was making a new point, nothing to do with recovering the cost of 
the initial investment. I just want to point out that the general argument 
about increasing the resale value of a house is not the proper criteria for 
any home improvement.
Secondly, you always have to be careful about taxes going up and they must 
be included in your pay back calculations. Also taxes go on forever so 
theoretically you may never get paid back.



___
Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com
Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox
OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech
** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the 
author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added 
to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.

Re: [NF] Energy from a hot rock

[Michael Madigan]

The individual air conditioning units had a pay-back
of less than a year, I believe the insulation would
have a payback of much longer, that's why we chose
them first.

I'm going to estimate the savings if I turned off the
air conditioning to be another $300 per year, but that
isn't feasible in this climate.  



--- Michael Hawksworth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Interesting that you thought first of air con then
> insulation, In 
> Europe/North Africa it would be the other way around
> with even 
> traditional homes in areas with very warm/cold temps
> using thick walls 
> to insulate the inside and 'modern' housing using
> various forms of 
> insulation.
> 
> Even if you look at wooden housing the Nordic
> development methods offer 
> far better insulation as standard than the most
> developments outside Europe.
> 
> Just out of curiosity, how much would you save if
> you turned off the air 
> con?
> 
> -- 
> Michael Hawksworth
> Visual Fox Solutions
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> www.foxpro.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com
> Subscription Maintenance:
> http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox
> OT-free version of this list:
> http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech
> ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise,
> are the opinions of the author, and do not
> constitute legal or medical advice. This statement
> is added to the messages for those lawyers who are
> too stupid to see the obvious.
> 


Lisa Nowak Gear!  Lust in Space, Nowak? YES WACK!, Astronauts Tool Kit
http://www.cafepress.com/rightwingmike


___
Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com
Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox
OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech
** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the 
author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added 
to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.

Re: [NF] Energy from a hot rock

[Michael Madigan]

With tax credits and the new technology, solar in NJ
has as low as a 5 year payback if you tie into the
grid.


> Solar is presently
> expensive per kwh but will probably be coming down
> fast as thin film newspaper style printing
> technology comes on line.  Google based investors
> have a large plant in the works.   If you can grid
> tie to the power company with either locally, you
> won't need banks of expensive relatively short lived
> batteries, your electric meter spins backwards and
> that must simply be a fantastic feeling. 
> Unfortunately, grid tie inverters are not
> particularly cheap. 
>   
> Best,
> 
> Steve
> 
> Steven Holt 
> 
> http://stockpix.com
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com
> Subscription Maintenance:
> http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox
> OT-free version of this list:
> http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech
> ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise,
> are the opinions of the author, and do not
> constitute legal or medical advice. This statement
> is added to the messages for those lawyers who are
> too stupid to see the obvious.
> 



___
Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com
Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox
OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech
** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the 
author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added 
to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.

RE: [NF] Energy from a hot rock

[mrgmhale]

I found out here even with flat or declining home prices our township (NY
home) is bumping the assessment value for homes.  Last year I bit back, got
an independent appraisal, retained a Real Estate attorney to make certain
all documents were filled out correctly, and fought.  State law is so
slanted that I had to rove the township was grossly negligent in the
assessment.  I had all the comps, selling prices, etc.  But still lost my
battle (war goes on, however).  So, I fall into the camp where I do not do
things under the Raise The Value Of The Home premise.  We do things for us,
and hope it does not give the assessor an excuse to increase the base value
any further!

Both my Legal Counsel and the person who did my assessment offered to do it
again for no charge, and the attorney wants to go to the hearing next time.
They are both as irritated as I am that despite excellent information and a
good presentation I got shot down.

In California my home I bought in 1979 has only seen an increase of 0.5% per
year maximum as it can't be reassessed until it is sold.  So out there I am
coasting.  We I to sell it the new owners would be paying more for in
property taxes than my monthly mortgage was when I first bought the home!
If, however, I do any construction that would increase the value the entire
home could be reassessed, so I only replace things needed - like the
driveway, sprinkler system, etc.

Gil



> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Nicholas Geti
> Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 10:35 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [NF] Energy from a hot rock
>
>
> > That's true, but it probably also increased the value of his house.
> > Being able to sell a home with minimal heating/cooling requirements
> > is a big plus.
> >
> > -- Ed Leafe
>
> I find that the argument of "raising the value of your house is a good
> thing" to be extremely bogus. It only applies to when you sell
> your house.
> If you don't intend to sell your house for a long time, you don't want to
> increase the value; it only raises your taxes which are never
> recovered when
> you do finally decide to sell.
>
> You should think of making changes to your home as a personal pleasure or
> convenience thing, not that it raises the value of your house. I
> get tired
> of politicians and contractors using the argument that their
> services will
> raise my house's value. They are only trying to get something for
> themselves.
>
>
>
[excessive quoting removed by server]

___
Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com
Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox
OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech
** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the 
author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added 
to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.

RE: [NF] Energy from a hot rock

[Allen]

Not getting much feeling of FoxPro or computers from this thread :)
At least the posts I did look at.
Al

-- 
I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users.
It has removed 904 spam emails to date.
Paying users do not have this message in their emails.
Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com

-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.30/674 - Release Date: 07/02/2007
15:33
 



___
Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com
Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox
OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech
** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the 
author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added 
to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.

RE: [NF] Energy from a hot rock

[mrgmhale]

> Not getting much feeling of FoxPro or computers from this thread :)
> At least the posts I did look at.
> Al
>

I am, re: alternative ways to cool my very warm house with all the equipment
I have running out here.

Gil

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Allen
> Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 12:14 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: [NF] Energy from a hot rock
>
>
> Not getting much feeling of FoxPro or computers from this thread :)
> At least the posts I did look at.
> Al
>
> --
> I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users.
> It has removed 904 spam emails to date.
> Paying users do not have this message in their emails.
> Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.30/674 - Release Date:
> 07/02/2007
> 15:33
>
>
>
>
[excessive quoting removed by server]

___
Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com
Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox
OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech
** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the 
author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added 
to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.

RE: [NF] Energy from a hot rock

[Michael Madigan]

I keep my utility bills on Excel.


--- mrgmhale <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> > Not getting much feeling of FoxPro or computers
> from this thread :)
> > At least the posts I did look at.
> > Al
> >
> 
> I am, re: alternative ways to cool my very warm
> house with all the equipment
> I have running out here.
> 
> Gil
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of
> Allen
> > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 12:14 PM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: RE: [NF] Energy from a hot rock
> >
> >
> > Not getting much feeling of FoxPro or computers
> from this thread :)
> > At least the posts I did look at.
> > Al
> >
> > --
> > I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for
> private users.
> > It has removed 904 spam emails to date.
> > Paying users do not have this message in their
> emails.
> > Get the free SPAMfighter here:
> http://www.spamfighter.com
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this outgoing message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.30/674 -
> Release Date:
> > 07/02/2007
> > 15:33
> >
> >
> >
> >
[excessive quoting removed by server]

___
Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com
Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox
OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech
** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the 
author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added 
to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.

RE: [NF] Energy from a hot rock

[Allen]

What ? You haven't made a VFP program to do that ?
Oh wait neither have I
Al 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Michael Madigan
Sent: 09 February 2007 02:29
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [NF] Energy from a hot rock

I keep my utility bills on Excel.


-- 
I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users.
It has removed 909 spam emails to date.
Paying users do not have this message in their emails.
Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com

-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.441 / Virus Database: 268.17.32/677 - Release Date: 08/02/2007
21:04
 



___
Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com
Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox
OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech
** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the 
author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added 
to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.

RE: [NF] Energy from a hot rock

[Michael Madigan]

Maybe I can find an activex component to interface
with my gas meter. 


--- Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> What ? You haven't made a VFP program to do that ?
> Oh wait neither have I
> Al 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Michael Madigan
> Sent: 09 February 2007 02:29
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: [NF] Energy from a hot rock
> 
> I keep my utility bills on Excel.
> 
> 
> -- 
> I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for
> private users.
> It has removed 909 spam emails to date.
> Paying users do not have this message in their
> emails.
> Get the free SPAMfighter here:
> http://www.spamfighter.com
> 
> -- 
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.441 / Virus Database: 268.17.32/677 -
> Release Date: 08/02/2007
> 21:04
>  
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com
> Subscription Maintenance:
> http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox
> OT-free version of this list:
> http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech
> ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise,
> are the opinions of the author, and do not
> constitute legal or medical advice. This statement
> is added to the messages for those lawyers who are
> too stupid to see the obvious.
> 



___
Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com
Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox
OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech
** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the 
author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added 
to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.

RE: [NF] Energy from a hot rock

[john harvey]

That's kind of interesting to note. Here in Memphis they are discussing
using utility meters that can be read by a vehicle driving down the street.
I want one of those installed on mine and the ability to pull that data. It
could be like biofeedback. Knowing how much energy is being consumed on a
daily/hourly basis would give you the ability to scale it back. I would
stand at the door and hand out light bulbs to each member of my family. Of
course, they would have to return them in the morning!

John

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Michael Madigan
Sent: Friday, February 09, 2007 3:08 PM
To: ProFox Email List
Subject: RE: [NF] Energy from a hot rock

Maybe I can find an activex component to interface
with my gas meter. 


--- Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> What ? You haven't made a VFP program to do that ?
> Oh wait neither have I
> Al 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Michael Madigan
> Sent: 09 February 2007 02:29
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: [NF] Energy from a hot rock
> 
> I keep my utility bills on Excel.
> 
> 
> -- 
> I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for
> private users.
> It has removed 909 spam emails to date.
> Paying users do not have this message in their
> emails.
> Get the free SPAMfighter here:
> http://www.spamfighter.com
> 
> -- 
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.441 / Virus Database: 268.17.32/677 -
> Release Date: 08/02/2007
> 21:04
>  
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com
> Subscription Maintenance:
> http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox
> OT-free version of this list:
> http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech
> ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise,
> are the opinions of the author, and do not
> constitute legal or medical advice. This statement
> is added to the messages for those lawyers who are
> too stupid to see the obvious.
> 



[excessive quoting removed by server]

___
Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com
Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox
OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech
** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the 
author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added 
to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.

RE: [NF] Energy from a hot rock

[Stephen the Cook]

john harvey <> wrote:
> That's kind of interesting to note. Here in Memphis they are
> discussing using utility meters that can be read by a vehicle driving
> down the street.  
> I want one of those installed on mine and the ability to pull that
> data. It could be like biofeedback. Knowing how much energy is being
> consumed on a daily/hourly basis would give you the ability to scale
> it back. I would stand at the door and hand out light bulbs to each
> member of my family. Of course, they would have to return them in the
> morning! 

I didn't think that it was considered here John.  For CA where your power
rates can fluctuate in the day depending on load it would be cool to see
what your pulling.


Stephen Russell
DBA / .Net Developer

Memphis TN 38115
901.246-0159

"A good way to judge people is by observing how they treat those who
can do them absolutely no good." ---Unknown

http://spaces.msn.com/members/srussell/

-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.441 / Virus Database: 268.17.32/677 - Release Date: 2/8/2007
9:04 PM
 



___
Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com
Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox
OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech
** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the 
author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added 
to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.

RE: [NF] Energy from a hot rock

[john harvey]

Nah, they looked at it, but didn't buy it. I wish they would and would
expose the data.

John

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Stephen the Cook
Sent: Friday, February 09, 2007 5:51 PM
To: 'ProFox Email List'
Subject: RE: [NF] Energy from a hot rock

john harvey <> wrote:
> That's kind of interesting to note. Here in Memphis they are
> discussing using utility meters that can be read by a vehicle driving
> down the street.  
> I want one of those installed on mine and the ability to pull that
> data. It could be like biofeedback. Knowing how much energy is being
> consumed on a daily/hourly basis would give you the ability to scale
> it back. I would stand at the door and hand out light bulbs to each
> member of my family. Of course, they would have to return them in the
> morning! 

I didn't think that it was considered here John.  For CA where your power
rates can fluctuate in the day depending on load it would be cool to see
what your pulling.



___
Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com
Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox
OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech
** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the 
author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added 
to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.

RE: [NF] Energy from a hot rock

[Stephen the Cook]

john harvey <> wrote:
> Nah, they looked at it, but didn't buy it. I wish they would and
> would expose the data. 

I heard that the homeowner has to foot the bill and it was along the lines
of 400 per unit?  Ouch if you have a good one already.

Stephen Russell
DBA / .Net Developer

Memphis TN 38115
901.246-0159

"A good way to judge people is by observing how they treat those who
can do them absolutely no good." ---Unknown

http://spaces.msn.com/members/srussell/

-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.441 / Virus Database: 268.17.32/677 - Release Date: 2/8/2007
9:04 PM
 



___
Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com
Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox
OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech
** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the 
author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added 
to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.

RE: [NF] Energy from a hot rock

[john harvey]

Hmmm, if they let you have access to the data, it would pay for itself
within a year, I'll bet. Last I heard, they ruled it out.

John

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Stephen the Cook
Sent: Friday, February 09, 2007 9:29 PM
To: 'ProFox Email List'
Subject: RE: [NF] Energy from a hot rock

john harvey <> wrote:
> Nah, they looked at it, but didn't buy it. I wish they would and
> would expose the data. 

I heard that the homeowner has to foot the bill and it was along the lines
of 400 per unit?  Ouch if you have a good one already.

Stephen Russell
DBA / .Net Developer

Memphis TN 38115
901.246-0159

"A good way to judge people is by observing how they treat those who
can do them absolutely no good." ---Unknown

http://spaces.msn.com/members/srussell/

-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.441 / Virus Database: 268.17.32/677 - Release Date: 2/8/2007
9:04 PM
 



[excessive quoting removed by server]

___
Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com
Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox
OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech
** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the 
author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added 
to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.

RE: [NF] Energy from a hot rock

[Allen]

For some time they have mentioned that electricity cables can carry
broadband. I think trials even went ahead though I don’t know of any real
cases it may have happened. So if that’s the case why not pipe the meter
results back that way, never mind a van. Being that in the uk many
electricity companies and gas companies do both it could be done easy I
would have thought.
Allen 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of john harvey

That's kind of interesting to note. Here in Memphis they are discussing
using utility meters that can be read by a vehicle driving down the street.
I want one of those installed on mine and the ability to pull that data. It
could be like biofeedback. Knowing how much energy is being consumed on a
daily/hourly basis would give you the ability to scale it back. I would
stand at the door and hand out light bulbs to each member of my family. Of
course, they would have to return them in the morning!

-- 
I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users.
It has removed 918 spam emails to date.
Paying users do not have this message in their emails.
Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com

-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.441 / Virus Database: 268.17.32/677 - Release Date: 08/02/2007
21:04
 



___
Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com
Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox
OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech
** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the 
author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added 
to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.

RE: [NF] Energy from a hot rock

[Stephen the Cook]

john harvey <> wrote:
> Hmmm, if they let you have access to the data, it would pay for
> itself within a year, I'll bet. Last I heard, they ruled it out. 

What could you do with the data that would give you that much of a return?  

1. I just got home and the house is hot, turn on Air
2. Clothes are dirty you run washer and electric dryer.




Stephen Russell
DBA / .Net Developer

Memphis TN 38115
901.246-0159

"A good way to judge people is by observing how they treat those who
can do them absolutely no good." ---Unknown

http://spaces.msn.com/members/srussell/

-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.441 / Virus Database: 268.17.33/678 - Release Date: 2/9/2007
4:06 PM
 



___
Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com
Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox
OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech
** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the 
author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added 
to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.

RE: [NF] Energy from a hot rock

[john harvey]

Just like using biofeedback. You see the electric usage report on a daily
basis. Over a given period you would know what the average is and anytime
you see a spike, you start looking for those lights that were left on that
really aren't doing anything, the things that are plugged in but aren't
doing anything other than consuming electricity, etc. Of course, I would
start by unplugging/turning off anything that wasn't being used anyway, then
go from there. It would also help you to know what your bill is going to be,
day by day.

I'll bet you have some of those things happening if you look around.

John


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Stephen the Cook
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 10:29 AM
To: 'ProFox Email List'
Subject: RE: [NF] Energy from a hot rock

john harvey <> wrote:
> Hmmm, if they let you have access to the data, it would pay for
> itself within a year, I'll bet. Last I heard, they ruled it out. 

What could you do with the data that would give you that much of a return?  

1. I just got home and the house is hot, turn on Air
2. Clothes are dirty you run washer and electric dryer.




Stephen Russell
DBA / .Net Developer

Memphis TN 38115
901.246-0159

"A good way to judge people is by observing how they treat those who
can do them absolutely no good." ---Unknown

http://spaces.msn.com/members/srussell/

-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.441 / Virus Database: 268.17.33/678 - Release Date: 2/9/2007
4:06 PM
 



[excessive quoting removed by server]

___
Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com
Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox
OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech
** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the 
author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added 
to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.

RE: [NF] Energy from a hot rock

[john harvey]

The stories I've seen say the ip over electrical lines is not that great.
There's also an issue of "jobs" for the meter readers. The reports we've had
say they could scale back on the number of meter readers, and move some into
other positions, but they would still use them. I agree it could be done 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Allen
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 10:19 AM
To: profox@leafe.com
Subject: RE: [NF] Energy from a hot rock

For some time they have mentioned that electricity cables can carry
broadband. I think trials even went ahead though I don't know of any real
cases it may have happened. So if that's the case why not pipe the meter
results back that way, never mind a van. Being that in the uk many
electricity companies and gas companies do both it could be done easy I
would have thought.
Allen 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of john harvey

That's kind of interesting to note. Here in Memphis they are discussing
using utility meters that can be read by a vehicle driving down the street.
I want one of those installed on mine and the ability to pull that data. It
could be like biofeedback. Knowing how much energy is being consumed on a
daily/hourly basis would give you the ability to scale it back. I would
stand at the door and hand out light bulbs to each member of my family. Of
course, they would have to return them in the morning!

-- 
I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users.
It has removed 918 spam emails to date.
Paying users do not have this message in their emails.
Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com

-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.441 / Virus Database: 268.17.32/677 - Release Date: 08/02/2007
21:04
 



[excessive quoting removed by server]

___
Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com
Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox
OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech
** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the 
author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added 
to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.

Re: [NF] Energy from a hot rock

[Ted Roche]

On 2/10/07, john harvey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Just like using biofeedback... I'll bet you have some of those things 
> happening if you look around.

There's a great tool - a Kill-A-Watt you can use between your outlet
and equipment. It can tell you amps, watts and kwh. Handy for figuring
out standby and running power draws on your equipment.

-- 
Ted Roche
Ted Roche & Associates, LLC
http://www.tedroche.com


___
Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com
Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox
OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech
** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the 
author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added 
to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.

RE: [NF] Energy from a hot rock

[Michael Madigan]

I think just to see a computer readout of something
might give you incentive.

However, why would the utilities want to make you cut
down on use?  Only on days when there is a risk of
blackout would I suspect they want you to cut down.



--- Stephen the Cook <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> john harvey <> wrote:
> > Hmmm, if they let you have access to the data, it
> would pay for
> > itself within a year, I'll bet. Last I heard, they
> ruled it out. 
> 
> What could you do with the data that would give you
> that much of a return?  
> 
> 1. I just got home and the house is hot, turn on Air
> 2. Clothes are dirty you run washer and electric
> dryer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stephen Russell
> DBA / .Net Developer
> 
> Memphis TN 38115
> 901.246-0159
> 
> "A good way to judge people is by observing how they
> treat those who
> can do them absolutely no good." ---Unknown
> 
> http://spaces.msn.com/members/srussell/
> 
> -- 
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.441 / Virus Database: 268.17.33/678 -
> Release Date: 2/9/2007
> 4:06 PM
>  
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com
> Subscription Maintenance:
> http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox
> OT-free version of this list:
> http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech
> ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise,
> are the opinions of the author, and do not
> constitute legal or medical advice. This statement
> is added to the messages for those lawyers who are
> too stupid to see the obvious.
> 



___
Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com
Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox
OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech
** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the 
author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added 
to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.

Re: [NF] Energy from a hot rock

[Michael Madigan]

I've had that on my list of things to buy for a while.

Would be interested to see how much my old
refrigerator is actually wasting.


--- Ted Roche <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On 2/10/07, john harvey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> 
> > Just like using biofeedback... I'll bet you have
> some of those things happening if you look around.
> 
> There's a great tool - a Kill-A-Watt you can use
> between your outlet
> and equipment. It can tell you amps, watts and kwh.
> Handy for figuring
> out standby and running power draws on your
> equipment.
> 
> -- 
> Ted Roche
> Ted Roche & Associates, LLC
> http://www.tedroche.com
> 
> 
> ___
> Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com
> Subscription Maintenance:
> http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox
> OT-free version of this list:
> http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech
> ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise,
> are the opinions of the author, and do not
> constitute legal or medical advice. This statement
> is added to the messages for those lawyers who are
> too stupid to see the obvious.
> 



___
Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com
Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox
OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech
** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the 
author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added 
to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.

RE: [NF] Energy from a hot rock

[john harvey]

I'm not looking at it from the Utility Company's perspective. They want the
devices because they could collect data more quickly and accurately.

John

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Michael Madigan
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 3:48 PM
To: ProFox Email List
Subject: RE: [NF] Energy from a hot rock

I think just to see a computer readout of something
might give you incentive.

However, why would the utilities want to make you cut
down on use?  Only on days when there is a risk of
blackout would I suspect they want you to cut down.



--- Stephen the Cook <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> john harvey <> wrote:
> > Hmmm, if they let you have access to the data, it
> would pay for
> > itself within a year, I'll bet. Last I heard, they
> ruled it out. 
> 
> What could you do with the data that would give you
> that much of a return?  
> 
> 1. I just got home and the house is hot, turn on Air
> 2. Clothes are dirty you run washer and electric
> dryer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stephen Russell
> DBA / .Net Developer
> 
> Memphis TN 38115
> 901.246-0159
> 
> "A good way to judge people is by observing how they
> treat those who
> can do them absolutely no good." ---Unknown
> 
> http://spaces.msn.com/members/srussell/
> 
> -- 
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.441 / Virus Database: 268.17.33/678 -
> Release Date: 2/9/2007
> 4:06 PM
>  
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com
> Subscription Maintenance:
> http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox
> OT-free version of this list:
> http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech
> ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise,
> are the opinions of the author, and do not
> constitute legal or medical advice. This statement
> is added to the messages for those lawyers who are
> too stupid to see the obvious.
> 



[excessive quoting removed by server]

___
Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com
Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox
OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech
** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the 
author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added 
to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.

RE: [NF] Energy from a hot rock

[john harvey]

Hmmm, 40 bucks and you plug it into every device? Nah, I think the meter's
will get smarter over the next few years.
http://tdworld.com/customer_service/amr/digital-communications-customers/
has a good read on this. It appears the federal govt may have already
mandated it.

John

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Ted Roche
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 3:32 PM
To: profox@leafe.com
Subject: Re: [NF] Energy from a hot rock

On 2/10/07, john harvey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Just like using biofeedback... I'll bet you have some of those things
happening if you look around.

There's a great tool - a Kill-A-Watt you can use between your outlet
and equipment. It can tell you amps, watts and kwh. Handy for figuring
out standby and running power draws on your equipment.

-- 
Ted Roche
Ted Roche & Associates, LLC
http://www.tedroche.com


[excessive quoting removed by server]

___
Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com
Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox
OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech
** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the 
author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added 
to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.

Re: [NF] Energy from a hot rock

[Chet Gardiner]

Here in California with crooks like PG&E and Enron and White Energy, 
etc. and tools of the energy corporations like Grey Davis and Arnold 
Groppensteroidenfuhrer, our rates go up and up and up nearly MONTHLY.

Usage ain't got sh*t to do with it...



john harvey wrote:

>Hmmm, 40 bucks and you plug it into every device? Nah, I think the meter's
>will get smarter over the next few years.
>http://tdworld.com/customer_service/amr/digital-communications-customers/
>has a good read on this. It appears the federal govt may have already
>mandated it.
>
>John
>
>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
>Of Ted Roche
>Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 3:32 PM
>To: profox@leafe.com
>Subject: Re: [NF] Energy from a hot rock
>
>On 2/10/07, john harvey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Just like using biofeedback... I'll bet you have some of those things
>>
>>
>happening if you look around.
>
>There's a great tool - a Kill-A-Watt you can use between your outlet
>and equipment. It can tell you amps, watts and kwh. Handy for figuring
>out standby and running power draws on your equipment.
>
>  
>


___
Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com
Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox
OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech
** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the 
author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added 
to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.

Re: [NF] Energy from a hot rock

[Michael Madigan]

You need to put some solar panels on your roof and
start saving money.



--- Chet Gardiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Here in California with crooks like PG&E and Enron
> and White Energy, 
> etc. and tools of the energy corporations like Grey
> Davis and Arnold 
> Groppensteroidenfuhrer, our rates go up and up and
> up nearly MONTHLY.
> 
> Usage ain't got sh*t to do with it...
> 
> 
> 
> john harvey wrote:
> 
> >Hmmm, 40 bucks and you plug it into every device?
> Nah, I think the meter's
> >will get smarter over the next few years.
>
>http://tdworld.com/customer_service/amr/digital-communications-customers/
> >has a good read on this. It appears the federal
> govt may have already
> >mandated it.
> >
> >John
> >
> >-Original Message-
> >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
> >Of Ted Roche
> >Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 3:32 PM
> >To: profox@leafe.com
> >Subject: Re: [NF] Energy from a hot rock
> >
> >On 2/10/07, john harvey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> >
> >  
> >
> >>Just like using biofeedback... I'll bet you have
> some of those things
> >>
> >>
> >happening if you look around.
> >
> >There's a great tool - a Kill-A-Watt you can use
> between your outlet
> >and equipment. It can tell you amps, watts and kwh.
> Handy for figuring
> >out standby and running power draws on your
> equipment.
> >
> >  
> >
> 
> 
> ___
> Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com
> Subscription Maintenance:
> http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox
> OT-free version of this list:
> http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech
> ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise,
> are the opinions of the author, and do not
> constitute legal or medical advice. This statement
> is added to the messages for those lawyers who are
> too stupid to see the obvious.
> 



___
Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com
Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox
OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech
** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the 
author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added 
to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.

Re: [NF] Energy from a hot rock

[Chet Gardiner]

Eventually.  I guess being able to afford a home is a pre-requisite 
though.  Landlords usually won't let you...

Michael Madigan wrote:

>You need to put some solar panels on your roof and
>start saving money.
>
>
>
>--- Chet Gardiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Here in California with crooks like PG&E and Enron
>>and White Energy, 
>>etc. and tools of the energy corporations like Grey
>>Davis and Arnold 
>>Groppensteroidenfuhrer, our rates go up and up and
>>up nearly MONTHLY.
>>
>>Usage ain't got sh*t to do with it...
>>
>>
>>
>>john harvey wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Hmmm, 40 bucks and you plug it into every device?
>>>  
>>>
>>Nah, I think the meter's
>>
>>
>>>will get smarter over the next few years.
>>>  
>>>
>>http://tdworld.com/customer_service/amr/digital-communications-customers/
>>
>>
>>>has a good read on this. It appears the federal
>>>  
>>>
>>govt may have already
>>    
>>
>>>mandated it.
>>>
>>>John
>>>
>>>-Original Message-
>>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>  
>>>
>>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
>>
>>
>>>Of Ted Roche
>>>Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 3:32 PM
>>>To: profox@leafe.com
>>>Subject: Re: [NF] Energy from a hot rock
>>>
>>>On 2/10/07, john harvey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>  
>>>
>>wrote:
>>
>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>>>Just like using biofeedback... I'll bet you have
>>>>
>>>>
>>some of those things
>>
>>
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>happening if you look around.
>>>
>>>There's a great tool - a Kill-A-Watt you can use
>>>  
>>>
>>between your outlet
>>
>>
>>>and equipment. It can tell you amps, watts and kwh.
>>>  
>>>
>>Handy for figuring
>>
>>
>>>out standby and running power draws on your
>>>  
>>>
>>equipment.
>>
>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>___
>>Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com
>>Subscription Maintenance:
>>http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox
>>OT-free version of this list:
>>http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech
>>** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise,
>>are the opinions of the author, and do not
>>constitute legal or medical advice. This statement
>>is added to the messages for those lawyers who are
>>too stupid to see the obvious.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
[excessive quoting removed by server]

___
Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com
Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox
OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech
** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the 
author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added 
to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.

RE: [NF] Energy from a hot rock

[john harvey]

Hmmm, if you can cut usage, you can cut cost.

John

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Michael Madigan
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 7:13 PM
To: ProFox Email List
Subject: Re: [NF] Energy from a hot rock

You need to put some solar panels on your roof and
start saving money.



--- Chet Gardiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Here in California with crooks like PG&E and Enron
> and White Energy, 
> etc. and tools of the energy corporations like Grey
> Davis and Arnold 
> Groppensteroidenfuhrer, our rates go up and up and
> up nearly MONTHLY.
> 
> Usage ain't got sh*t to do with it...
> 
> 
> 
> john harvey wrote:
> 
> >Hmmm, 40 bucks and you plug it into every device?
> Nah, I think the meter's
> >will get smarter over the next few years.
>
>http://tdworld.com/customer_service/amr/digital-communications-customers/
> >has a good read on this. It appears the federal
> govt may have already
> >mandated it.
> >
> >John
> >
> >-Original Message-
> >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
> >Of Ted Roche
> >Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 3:32 PM
> >To: profox@leafe.com
> >Subject: Re: [NF] Energy from a hot rock
> >
> >On 2/10/07, john harvey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> >
> >  
> >
> >>Just like using biofeedback... I'll bet you have
> some of those things
> >>
> >>
> >happening if you look around.
> >
> >There's a great tool - a Kill-A-Watt you can use
> between your outlet
> >and equipment. It can tell you amps, watts and kwh.
> Handy for figuring
> >out standby and running power draws on your
> equipment.
> >
> >  
> >
> 
> 
> ___
> Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com
> Subscription Maintenance:
> http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox
> OT-free version of this list:
> http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech
> ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise,
> are the opinions of the author, and do not
> constitute legal or medical advice. This statement
> is added to the messages for those lawyers who are
> too stupid to see the obvious.
> 



[excessive quoting removed by server]

___
Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com
Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox
OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech
** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the 
author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added 
to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.

Re: [NF] Energy from a hot rock

[Chet Gardiner]

Not if they're raising the rates faster than you can possibly cut usage.

Our basic rate for a kWH here in California has raised the rate 40% in 
the last 4 years!!  So by keeping usage the same -- the bare minimum for 
basic survival -- my bill still goes up 40% in 4 years...

Basic energy needs, like Health Care, should NOT be in the private 
sphere.  We were a HELL of a lot better off when our energy monopolies 
were HEAVILY regulated



john harvey wrote:

>Hmmm, if you can cut usage, you can cut cost.
>
>John
>
>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
>Of Michael Madigan
>Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 7:13 PM
>To: ProFox Email List
>Subject: Re: [NF] Energy from a hot rock
>
>You need to put some solar panels on your roof and
>start saving money.
>
>
>
>--- Chet Gardiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Here in California with crooks like PG&E and Enron
>>and White Energy, 
>>etc. and tools of the energy corporations like Grey
>>Davis and Arnold 
>>Groppensteroidenfuhrer, our rates go up and up and
>>up nearly MONTHLY.
>>
>>Usage ain't got sh*t to do with it...
>>
>>
>>
>>john harvey wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Hmmm, 40 bucks and you plug it into every device?
>>>  
>>>
>>Nah, I think the meter's
>>
>>
>>>will get smarter over the next few years.
>>>  
>>>
>>http://tdworld.com/customer_service/amr/digital-communications-customers/
>>
>>
>>>has a good read on this. It appears the federal
>>>  
>>>
>>govt may have already
>>
>>
>>>mandated it.
>>>
>>>John
>>>
>>>-Original Message-
>>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>  
>>>
>>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
>>
>>
>>>Of Ted Roche
>>>Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 3:32 PM
>>>To: profox@leafe.com
>>>Subject: Re: [NF] Energy from a hot rock
>>>
>>>On 2/10/07, john harvey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>  
>>>
>>wrote:
>>
>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>>>Just like using biofeedback... I'll bet you have
>>>>
>>>>
>>some of those things
>>
>>
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>happening if you look around.
>>>
>>>There's a great tool - a Kill-A-Watt you can use
>>>  
>>>
>>between your outlet
>>
>>
>>>and equipment. It can tell you amps, watts and kwh.
>>>  
>>>
>>Handy for figuring
>>
>>
>>>out standby and running power draws on your
>>>  
>>>
>>equipment.
>>
>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>___
>>Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com
>>Subscription Maintenance:
>>http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox
>>OT-free version of this list:
>>http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech
>>** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise,
>>are the opinions of the author, and do not
>>constitute legal or medical advice. This statement
>>is added to the messages for those lawyers who are
>>too stupid to see the obvious.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
[excessive quoting removed by server]

___
Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com
Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox
OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech
** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the 
author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added 
to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.

RE: [NF] Energy from a hot rock

[John Weller]

Come on guys - surely this should be OT by now?

John Weller
01380 723235
07976 393631 

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Chet Gardiner
> Sent: 11 February 2007 20:35
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [NF] Energy from a hot rock
> 
> 
> Not if they're raising the rates faster than you can possibly cut usage.
> 
> Our basic rate for a kWH here in California has raised the rate 40% in 
> the last 4 years!!  So by keeping usage the same -- the bare minimum for 
> basic survival -- my bill still goes up 40% in 4 years...



___
Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com
Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox
OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech
** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the 
author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added 
to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.

RE: [NF] Energy from a hot rock

[john harvey]

Cut everything off and see what happens
I'm thinking of going back to wood heat, no wait they say I'd be polluting
the air. Hmmm, how bout putting up a windmill, dang neighborhood covenants!
Hmm, Solar panels on the roof. Dang! They cost how much? Maybe a long
extension cord to the next door neighbor's house, yeah, that's the ticket!


John

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Chet Gardiner
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 2:35 PM
To: profox@leafe.com
Subject: Re: [NF] Energy from a hot rock

Not if they're raising the rates faster than you can possibly cut usage.

Our basic rate for a kWH here in California has raised the rate 40% in 
the last 4 years!!  So by keeping usage the same -- the bare minimum for 
basic survival -- my bill still goes up 40% in 4 years...

Basic energy needs, like Health Care, should NOT be in the private 
sphere.  We were a HELL of a lot better off when our energy monopolies 
were HEAVILY regulated



john harvey wrote:

>Hmmm, if you can cut usage, you can cut cost.
>
>John
>
>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
>Of Michael Madigan
>Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 7:13 PM
>To: ProFox Email List
>Subject: Re: [NF] Energy from a hot rock
>
>You need to put some solar panels on your roof and
>start saving money.
>
>
>
>--- Chet Gardiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Here in California with crooks like PG&E and Enron
>>and White Energy, 
>>etc. and tools of the energy corporations like Grey
>>Davis and Arnold 
>>Groppensteroidenfuhrer, our rates go up and up and
>>up nearly MONTHLY.
>>
>>Usage ain't got sh*t to do with it...
>>
>>
>>
>>john harvey wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Hmmm, 40 bucks and you plug it into every device?
>>>  
>>>
>>Nah, I think the meter's
>>
>>
>>>will get smarter over the next few years.
>>>  
>>>
>>http://tdworld.com/customer_service/amr/digital-communications-customers/
>>
>>
>>>has a good read on this. It appears the federal
>>>  
>>>
>>govt may have already
>>
>>
>>>mandated it.
>>>
>>>John
>>>
>>>-Original Message-
>>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>  
>>>
>>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
>>
>>
>>>Of Ted Roche
>>>Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 3:32 PM
>>>To: profox@leafe.com
>>>Subject: Re: [NF] Energy from a hot rock
>>>
>>>On 2/10/07, john harvey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>  
>>>
>>wrote:
>>
>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>>>Just like using biofeedback... I'll bet you have
>>>>
>>>>
>>some of those things
>>
>>
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>happening if you look around.
>>>
>>>There's a great tool - a Kill-A-Watt you can use
>>>  
>>>
>>between your outlet
>>
>>
>>>and equipment. It can tell you amps, watts and kwh.
>>>  
>>>
>>Handy for figuring
>>
>>
>>>out standby and running power draws on your
>>>  
>>>
>>equipment.
>>
>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>___
>>Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com
>>Subscription Maintenance:
>>http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox
>>OT-free version of this list:
>>http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech
>>** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise,
>>are the opinions of the author, and do not
>>constitute legal or medical advice. This statement
>>is added to the messages for those lawyers who are
>>too stupid to see the obvious.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
[excessive quoting removed by server]

___
Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com
Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox
OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech
** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the 
author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added 
to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.