Re: Version control
On 14 September 2012 15:04, MB Software Solutions, LLC wrote: > On 9/14/2012 8:58 AM, Rodney Dixon wrote: >> @Chrisof, >> >> What about TFS do you consider pretty bad? > > Curious to hear that as well. I haven't used it yet but will be soon > when I learn C# and join other projects with our Corporate HQ. I can tell you one thing, I'm not liking the new Team Explorer window in VS 2012! -- Paul ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/CADwx0+J54+u0zL=afnc8cj5qonmsug5mekfnmeuvehf7xsq...@mail.gmail.com ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: Version control
On 9/14/2012 8:58 AM, Rodney Dixon wrote: > @Chrisof, > > What about TFS do you consider pretty bad? Curious to hear that as well. I haven't used it yet but will be soon when I learn C# and join other projects with our Corporate HQ. -- Mike Babcock, MCP MB Software Solutions, LLC President, Chief Software Architect http://mbsoftwaresolutions.com http://fabmate.com http://twitter.com/mbabcock16 ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/5053395a.8000...@mbsoftwaresolutions.com ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: Version control
@Chrisof, What about TFS do you consider pretty bad? Regards Rodney -Original Message- From: profoxtech-boun...@leafe.com [mailto:profoxtech-boun...@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Christof Wollenhaupt Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 1:34 PM To: profoxt...@leafe.com Subject: Re: Version control TFS is pretty bad, although it got a lot better with the last two versions. The most convincing reason to use it is that it integrates great into Visual Studio and is kind of the default source control for VS.NET. == CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: The information in this electronic message (including any attachments) is confidential and may be privileged or proprietary. If you are not the intended recipient, any dissemination, disclosure, copying, downloading, or other use of the information is prohibited and unauthorized, and may be unlawful, regardless of address or routing. If you are not the intended recipient, please inform the sender immediately and permanently delete and destroy the original and any copies of this message, including any attachments. == ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/d5d2505fb1780c4584d3d02fcc765b3b11b12...@tnexchange1.mfc.corp.mckee.com ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: Version control
On 09/12/12 02:56, Dave Crozier wrote: > Never having used alternative software, I think Paul McNett dabbled with > subversion using VFP and wonder if anyone has any comments on what to use and > why. I know about the format of VFP forms etc. being a pain as they are not > simple text. > A year ago I got interested in Distributed Source Control, looked into git and mecurial, and downloaded and tested Mercurial with the TortoiseHg GUI interface. I was positively impressed, and am still using it, although sporadically because I'm no longer actively programming. 1. The Distributed model has huge advantages for an independent because there is no 'official' repository; you can join forces with another developer, located somewhere else, on a temporary basis and still keep everything together. 2. I understand Git is used by the Linux crowd, while Mercurial is used by the Mozilla folks. IOW, Git is geekier. So I tried Mercurial. 3. The Tortoise front end, available for Git, Mercurial, ans Svn, is very good. A marvelous feature is a Windows Explorer mod that puts little red and green dots on files that have been modified and have/have not been committed. 4. I paid particular attention to possible VFP problems, and simply didn't have any. Yes, the form and report files don't display as simple text in the difference views (because they're not), but they are detected properly and controlled properly, and that's what matters. Try them. They're free and they work. Dan Covill San Diego ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/5050bedd.4070...@san.rr.com ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: Version control
On 9/12/12 2:56 AM, Dave Crozier wrote: > Never having used alternative software, I think Paul McNett dabbled with > subversion using VFP and wonder if anyone has any comments on what to use and > why. I know about the format of VFP forms etc. being a pain as they are not > simple text. I used Subversion combined with a hacked-up scctext.prg (my scX project) that did true 2-way binary-to-text conversion of the files so that I could do diffs and merges. I still use it today for one remaining legacy VFP project but haven't been developing scX for the better part of a decade now, and I don't recommend it for that reason. I hear there is a more modern attempt at this and can't comment on it personally because I haven't use it. All my new source control is in git. In general, I recommend you get away from the mentality of having integrated source control, and learn to put the source control into your work stream manually, where it makes sense. Here's my typical workstream: 1) sit down to work for a couple hours on a project 2) open a terminal and: cd git pull (or svn update) git status (or svn status) ## make sure I didn't leave modified files around 3) work the couple hours 4) review with tools like git/svn diff 5) git commit -a (or svn commit) 6) git push (not necessary in subversion) The git workflow is simplified above, as there's much more you can do (branching is very powerful in git, for example). I'm merely showing the simplest (and most typical, for me at least) workflow. Git is a much better product than Subversion for a few key reasons (speed, true distributed source control, community acceptance). Git is actually simpler than Subversion once you've worked with it for a little bit, however Subversion is still a good choice in my opinion. I'm totally happy leaving my legacy stuff on Subversion. I used (tried to use) Visual SourceSafe way back maybe 1999 and thought I must have been simply misunderstanding the product since everyone was recommending it and kept trying again and again but I came to the conclusion that it is one big stinking pile of crapware. It was crap then compared to CVS, and now CVS is crap compared to Subversion, yet you say Microsoft is still peddling Visual SourceSafe? So, find the current vfp project that does what I was doing with scX only better and more current, and decide to go with either git or subversion, and don't look back. Other people have figured out all the hard parts for you by now, you merely need to learn how to hook all the pieces together in a workflow that makes sense for you. Paul ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/5050b68e.5030...@ulmcnett.com ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: Version control
On 9/12/2012 5:56 AM, Dave Crozier wrote: > I have had very few occasions to use version control when using VFP but as we > are involved in a really large conversion job here I decided 3 months ago to > use a formal method of version control and as such decided on the old chesnut > Visual Source Safe as we have it under our MSDN agreement and it obviously > seems to fit in seamlessly (laugh out loud!!) with VFP. > > The few occasions I have used it and required it although "messy" it has > worked, however I now find that the VSS database has become totally screwed > beyond repair and hence no sensible audit trail etc to go back to as the > corruption seems to go back about two months prior to the changes I want to > re-instate. I know, bad planning on my behalf but I can go back to disk > backups even though it will involve a fair amount file comparing (beyond > compare will earn it's corn the next few days!). > > Never having used alternative software, I think Paul McNett dabbled with > subversion using VFP and wonder if anyone has any comments on what to use and > why. I know about the format of VFP forms etc. being a pain as they are not > simple text. > > I just don't want to trust VSS any more despite it being the nearest > "standard VFP" offering there is. I recall Ed Leafe telling me about Tortoise SVN I thought many moons ago. ?? At my current day gig, we had been using SourceGear's Vault, which seemed fine to me, but now we're using Team Foundation Server at the corporate HQ (and I suppose I'll be getting on board that any day now too with a new project to check in). -- Mike Babcock, MCP MB Software Solutions, LLC President, Chief Software Architect http://mbsoftwaresolutions.com http://fabmate.com http://twitter.com/mbabcock16 ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/5050b612.2050...@mbsoftwaresolutions.com ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: Version Control
You could also run gendbc against your DBC and store the resulting PRG in your SCC system. -- rk -Original Message- From: profoxtech-boun...@leafe.com [mailto:profoxtech-boun...@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Charlie Coleman Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 7:06 PM To: profoxt...@leafe.com Subject: Re: Version Control >Is there some sort of data description information that I could gather >about a database in Foxpro? >I need to do version control on databases and tables. >Anyone been down this road before? ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/DF1EEF11E586A64FB54A97F22A8BD044216ED5FA02@ACKBWDDQH1.artfact.local ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: Version control
There is a SVN<->VFP project on VFPX that is supposed to give that integration to the VFP project. Because I'm so tied in to VSS I haven't pushed on it hard enough to figure out how well it works. http://vfpx.codeplex.com/wikipage?title=SubFox -- rk -Original Message- From: profoxtech-boun...@leafe.com [mailto:profoxtech-boun...@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Dave Crozier Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:53 AM To: profoxt...@leafe.com Subject: RE: Version control Alan, I'd totally agree. anyhow thanks for the PM's offering to help from everyone but I discovered an old VSS archive that has done the job so crisis averted but I'll certainly have a look at Christoff's stuff as a replacement. Dave ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/DF1EEF11E586A64FB54A97F22A8BD044216ED5F9F5@ACKBWDDQH1.artfact.local ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: Version control
Dave, Seeing as you have a MSDN license it might be worth looking into Microsoft's Team Foundation Server. No idea how it integrates with Fox though. Paul On 12 September 2012 14:52, Dave Crozier wrote: > Alan, > I'd totally agree. anyhow thanks for the PM's offering to help from > everyone but I discovered an old VSS archive that has done the job so crisis > averted but I'll certainly have a look at Christoff's stuff as a replacement. > > Dave > > -Original Message- > From: profox-boun...@leafe.com [mailto:profox-boun...@leafe.com] On Behalf Of > Alan Bourke > Sent: 12 September 2012 12:44 > To: profox@leafe.com > Subject: Re: Version control > > I'd say this is about on the money regarding SourceSafe: > > http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2006/08/source-control-anything-but-sourcesafe.html > > I use it for VFP stuff at work because I have to but for everything else I > use Subversion. -- Paul ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/cadwx0+ju-bt4apdeep8-xbbkthko+_uqngtzmt2-ekfbcnr...@mail.gmail.com ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: Version control
Alan, I'd totally agree. anyhow thanks for the PM's offering to help from everyone but I discovered an old VSS archive that has done the job so crisis averted but I'll certainly have a look at Christoff's stuff as a replacement. Dave -Original Message- From: profox-boun...@leafe.com [mailto:profox-boun...@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Alan Bourke Sent: 12 September 2012 12:44 To: profox@leafe.com Subject: Re: Version control I'd say this is about on the money regarding SourceSafe: http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2006/08/source-control-anything-but-sourcesafe.html I use it for VFP stuff at work because I have to but for everything else I use Subversion. -- Alan Bourke alanpbourke (at) fastmail (dot) fm [excessive quoting removed by server] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/bd031ecabf2b60499200aab3dbb4a999f1268...@ex-a-fpl.fpl.LOCAL ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: Version control
I'd say this is about on the money regarding SourceSafe: http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2006/08/source-control-anything-but-sourcesafe.html I use it for VFP stuff at work because I have to but for everything else I use Subversion. -- Alan Bourke alanpbourke (at) fastmail (dot) fm ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/1347450255.31415.140661126909201.44e2c...@webmail.messagingengine.com ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: Version control
Yep, Tried all of those to no avail. Dave -Original Message- From: profox-boun...@leafe.com [mailto:profox-boun...@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Peter Cushing Sent: 12 September 2012 11:41 To: profox@leafe.com Subject: Re: Version control Dave Crozier wrote: > Peter, > Well in retrospect that is what I should have done as I didn't notice the > initial corruption or when it happened and more important WHY! The existing > forms etc have been checking in no problem at all but retrieving ANY older > version just results in an error on ALL forms all versions! > > Garrett, thanks for that, I'll take a look. > > Dave, Have you tried to fix the VSS data with any utilities, E.g. http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ysxsfw4x%28v=vs.80%29.aspx Worth a shot if you can't get anything out of it. Peter Rajan Imports has changed - we are now Whispering Smith Ltd. For more information see our website at www.whisperingsmith.com Please update your address book with my new email address: pcush...@whisperingsmith.com . This communication is intended for the person or organisation to whom it is addressed. The contents are confidential and may be protected in law. Unauthorised use, copying or disclosure of any of it may be unlawful. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately by telephone or email. www.whisperingsmith.com Whispering Smith Ltd Head Office:61 Great Ducie Street, Manchester M3 1RR. Tel:0161 831 3700 Fax:0161 831 3715 London Office:17-19 Foley Street, London W1W 6DW Tel:0207 299 7960 [excessive quoting removed by server] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/bd031ecabf2b60499200aab3dbb4a999f1268...@ex-a-fpl.fpl.LOCAL ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: Version control
Dave Crozier wrote: > Peter, > Well in retrospect that is what I should have done as I didn't notice the > initial corruption or when it happened and more important WHY! The existing > forms etc have been checking in no problem at all but retrieving ANY older > version just results in an error on ALL forms all versions! > > Garrett, thanks for that, I'll take a look. > > Dave, Have you tried to fix the VSS data with any utilities, E.g. http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ysxsfw4x%28v=vs.80%29.aspx Worth a shot if you can't get anything out of it. Peter Rajan Imports has changed - we are now Whispering Smith Ltd. For more information see our website at www.whisperingsmith.com Please update your address book with my new email address: pcush...@whisperingsmith.com . This communication is intended for the person or organisation to whom it is addressed. The contents are confidential and may be protected in law. Unauthorised use, copying or disclosure of any of it may be unlawful. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately by telephone or email. www.whisperingsmith.com Whispering Smith Ltd Head Office:61 Great Ducie Street, Manchester M3 1RR. Tel:0161 831 3700 Fax:0161 831 3715 London Office:17-19 Foley Street, London W1W 6DW Tel:0207 299 7960 ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/505066c1.1070...@whisperingsmith.com ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: Version control
Peter, Well in retrospect that is what I should have done as I didn't notice the initial corruption or when it happened and more important WHY! The existing forms etc have been checking in no problem at all but retrieving ANY older version just results in an error on ALL forms all versions! Garrett, thanks for that, I'll take a look. Dave -Original Message- From: profox-boun...@leafe.com [mailto:profox-boun...@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Peter Cushing Sent: 12 September 2012 11:30 To: profox@leafe.com Subject: Re: Version control Dave Crozier wrote: > I have had very few occasions to use version control when using VFP but as we > are involved in a really large conversion job here I decided 3 months ago to > use a formal method of version control and as such decided on the old chesnut > Visual Source Safe as we have it under our MSDN agreement and it obviously > seems to fit in seamlessly (laugh out loud!!) with VFP. > > > Dave > > I'm also using VSS at the moment, but also like to back that up with a disk copy every couple of months. I just modify a batch file to include the stuff I want, then this gets copied to a server that gets backed up and I zip it up there, test the zip file and done. Any large mods on a form say and I will go to the next number myform1 myform2 etc. Then your new version can't screw up the old one. I do find VSS a bit clunky and had a brief look round when I went to windows 7 but nothing struck me as easy to use where I could also import the VSS data. Maybe I'll have to review them again. Peter Rajan Imports has changed - we are now Whispering Smith Ltd. For more information see our website at www.whisperingsmith.com Please update your address book with my new email address: pcush...@whisperingsmith.com . This communication is intended for the person or organisation to whom it is addressed. The contents are confidential and may be protected in law. Unauthorised use, copying or disclosure of any of it may be unlawful. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately by telephone or email. www.whisperingsmith.com Whispering Smith Ltd Head Office:61 Great Ducie Street, Manchester M3 1RR. Tel:0161 831 3700 Fax:0161 831 3715 London Office:17-19 Foley Street, London W1W 6DW Tel:0207 299 7960 [excessive quoting removed by server] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/bd031ecabf2b60499200aab3dbb4a999f1268...@ex-a-fpl.fpl.LOCAL ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: Version control
Dave Crozier wrote: > I have had very few occasions to use version control when using VFP but as we > are involved in a really large conversion job here I decided 3 months ago to > use a formal method of version control and as such decided on the old chesnut > Visual Source Safe as we have it under our MSDN agreement and it obviously > seems to fit in seamlessly (laugh out loud!!) with VFP. > > > Dave > > I'm also using VSS at the moment, but also like to back that up with a disk copy every couple of months. I just modify a batch file to include the stuff I want, then this gets copied to a server that gets backed up and I zip it up there, test the zip file and done. Any large mods on a form say and I will go to the next number myform1 myform2 etc. Then your new version can't screw up the old one. I do find VSS a bit clunky and had a brief look round when I went to windows 7 but nothing struck me as easy to use where I could also import the VSS data. Maybe I'll have to review them again. Peter Rajan Imports has changed - we are now Whispering Smith Ltd. For more information see our website at www.whisperingsmith.com Please update your address book with my new email address: pcush...@whisperingsmith.com . This communication is intended for the person or organisation to whom it is addressed. The contents are confidential and may be protected in law. Unauthorised use, copying or disclosure of any of it may be unlawful. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately by telephone or email. www.whisperingsmith.com Whispering Smith Ltd Head Office:61 Great Ducie Street, Manchester M3 1RR. Tel:0161 831 3700 Fax:0161 831 3715 London Office:17-19 Foley Street, London W1W 6DW Tel:0207 299 7960 ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/5050643d.5030...@whisperingsmith.com ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: Version control
On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 5:56 AM, Dave Crozier wrote: > Never having used alternative software, I think Paul McNett dabbled with > subversion using VFP and wonder if anyone has any comments on what to use > and why. I know about the format of VFP forms etc. being a pain as they are > not simple text. > I've been using Subversion with Christof's TwoFox tool to convert the binary files to and from text. A lot of people swear by git, but it doesn't make as much sense to me as svn does. YMMV, of course. http://subversion.apache.org/ http://www.foxpert.com/docs/cvs.en.htm --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/cagd8mrfakyq_p+zf2hjchpa8gpwessp014wlayynmb19dfv...@mail.gmail.com ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
