Re: [PEDA] Hypertronics or Hypertac HPH connector footprin ts
On Wed, 16 Oct 2002 08:39:39 +0930, Dave Sanders wrote: >Why can't you just go to the web site? >ie. >http://www.hypertronics.com/catalog2001/h_series/h-6.html The drawings there have no dimensions for the connector housing and don't show a 5 row right angle footprint (which I could probably guess - but guessing footprints is a recipe for disaster). The Hypertac european site has different even less useful drawings and two drawings with conflicting dimensions for the required offset from the PCB edge. That is why I asked for sufficient and non-conflicting information or a proven footprint. I was in the process of muddeling through and guessing when I thought I would ask here before carrying on. Cheers, Terry. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Protel99se and win2k fun
Hi, You are correct to get a better machine and loose the ATI card. I run 1.7GHz and 1G RAM, and NVidia TNT2 32meg, the ATI card low memory was the cause of most of our previous problems - still no idea why We've also had problems with some printer drivers, especially a PCL6. (Incidentally, the 'old' Protel/Altium ignored all these problems, we solved them on our own, however, the 'new' DXP/Altium seem to be much more helpful - at least at the moment.) We have an external contractor that uses a much less spec machine and 256meg ram, they have a policy of formatting the HD and re-installing each time Protel crashes. (Personally, I think that's a bit extreme, read on...) Our cad station is 2.4GHz and 1G ram, we use that for most of the work. (This has a Geforce 64meg video card, but I doubt protel SCH or PCB makes use of any 3D speed ups, its mostly games that do that (Ok, and OpenGL etc.) It only has Protel installed (and windows of course) that way we eliminate any cross application problems. We use w2K pro everywhere. Turn off any DRC check that you don't really need, only turn them all one occasionally just to see. Draft, or even better hide any poly planes unless you are editing them. A useful tool re-pour poly on Yahoo Groups PEDA will help in this. (I wrote it) P99se+Service Pack 6 is the most stable - we have had no serious crashes for a long time. We occasionally get an access violation at shutdown, I believe this is a windows bug and out of Protels control (though only Protel does it..Hmm?) Compress and repair the database on a daily basis, or, use the file system rather than MSAccess. Do this manually or Protel can take ages to save. Lastly, take regular backups to a decent historic depth, we take at least two a day, using a batch file, just close down Protel and click to create a 50 deep rolling backup... :) Good luck, Jason. -Original Message- From: Julian Higginson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 16 October 2002 02:31 To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: [PEDA] Protel99se and win2k fun Hey all, I just subscribed, looking for a bit of help if possible I have just started a new job, and I'm taking over an existing design in protel99. Now I'm very familiar with protel, however I'm getting a bunch of problems generally crashing out (have had the whole computer reboot on me once, and I have had freezes, exceptions, out of range memory accesses, all the fun stuff) Basically the computer appears totally underpowered, its a PIII600 with just 128Mb RAM. (We've just found another 128 meg stick lying about and put it in this computer, which makes it run a bit more smoothly, but it has still managed to crash) I'm operating on a PCB that is 6 layers and quite large. (the PCB file is almost 8 meg) Oh, and it has an ATI video card, which I read about in the archives... hmm... so I spoke to my boss and I'm getting a new computer to work on, so I'm wondering what kind of specs are necessary? My guess is I need a good FSB speed more than I need the fastest processor. I'll need at least 512Mb of RAM. I'll need 7200rpm drive speed, for faster sustained disk transfers, and I'll need an OK graphics card, but no need for some super monster 3D engine What sort of success has everyone on the list had with their computer setups? ie specs vs board size? and are there any manufacturers other than ATI to avoid? What features will help with screen redraw speed? what features will help with DRC time? (about 15 minutes per DRC at the moment) How much RAM do I need to throw at the thing to stop it going to swapfiles? thanks, Julian * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Protel99se and win2k fun
Oh, You wanted to know if there are similar board to yours out there. We have a number of designs on 11"x13" 6 layer + 5 mech. It has more than 1000 components, populated both sides with several QFPs. I think you can even see a picture of one of the boards on the web (The site's bleeding ASP, so I can't give you a 'URL') www.citel.com Sitemap:Products:Handset Gateway:Datasheet.pdf J. -Original Message- From: Julian Higginson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 16 October 2002 02:31 To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: [PEDA] Protel99se and win2k fun Hey all, I just subscribed, looking for a bit of help if possible I have just started a new job, and I'm taking over an existing design in protel99. Now I'm very familiar with protel, however I'm getting a bunch of problems generally crashing out (have had the whole computer reboot on me once, and I have had freezes, exceptions, out of range memory accesses, all the fun stuff) Basically the computer appears totally underpowered, its a PIII600 with just 128Mb RAM. (We've just found another 128 meg stick lying about and put it in this computer, which makes it run a bit more smoothly, but it has still managed to crash) I'm operating on a PCB that is 6 layers and quite large. (the PCB file is almost 8 meg) Oh, and it has an ATI video card, which I read about in the archives... hmm... so I spoke to my boss and I'm getting a new computer to work on, so I'm wondering what kind of specs are necessary? My guess is I need a good FSB speed more than I need the fastest processor. I'll need at least 512Mb of RAM. I'll need 7200rpm drive speed, for faster sustained disk transfers, and I'll need an OK graphics card, but no need for some super monster 3D engine What sort of success has everyone on the list had with their computer setups? ie specs vs board size? and are there any manufacturers other than ATI to avoid? What features will help with screen redraw speed? what features will help with DRC time? (about 15 minutes per DRC at the moment) How much RAM do I need to throw at the thing to stop it going to swapfiles? thanks, Julian * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Protel99se and win2k fun
Julian Higginson wrote: > http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com/ > there was nothing particularly relevant (in fact it only goes back a month > or so...) If you just follow <> link, that's true, but if you use their search mechanism it will go back deeper in time (don't know how much deeper). You may also try accessing the archives of this forum. Below there are just two example threads on similiar topics I found (just a quick scan, so there may be others): "Hardware questions (upgrade time - yuk!)" started by Ian Wilson (13.07.2002) "Fastest possible Protel system, price is not a concern" started by Brian Guralnick (21.07.2002) Wojciech Oborski * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Export Eagle to Protel?
Hello, I've tried to find it... Without succes ! I tried with Google and Copernic... I even with CuteFtp ! -Message d'origine- De : Schmitt Michael [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Envoyé : mardi 15 octobre 2002 09:13 À : 'Protel EDA Forum' Objet : Re: [PEDA] Export Eagle to Protel? A couple of years ago, when we switched from Eagle to Protel V3 we received a tool called WINBRD20 that was delivered to us from Hoschar the Protel distributor at that time (and now again?) with the complete Protel package. With this tool we were able to convert ALL Eagle files to Protel files, but only the PCB not the schematics. Just start the tool, select the Eagle PCB, select the output filename and some settings that's it. The tool file is dated April, 8 1997 Release 1.0 Hope this helps a bit * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Protel99se and win2k fun
On 11:41 AM 16/10/2002 +0200, Wojciech Oborski said: >Julian Higginson wrote: > > >>http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com/ >>there was nothing particularly relevant (in fact it only goes back a month >>or so...) > > >If you just follow <> link, that's true, but if you >use their search mechanism it will go back deeper in time (don't know how >much deeper). > >You may also try accessing the archives of this forum. That other archive is: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/protel-users-PEDA-Archive/ goes back to May 01. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Protel99se and win2k fun
> We have an external contractor that uses a much less spec machine and 256meg > ram, > they have a policy of formatting the HD and re-installing each time Protel > crashes. > (Personally, I think that's a bit extreme, read on...) Wow! Extreme indeed. Do they actually manage to get any real *work* done between the lengthy format/install process? Sounds like an inability or unwillingness to find the real cause of the problem. The only time I have re-installed W2K is when I had a networking problem a few months ago. It turned out to be an ethernet switch/router that had gone bad (on 2 of the 8 ports only!). People, if you have such bad problems, it could be a h/w fault. I cannot stress enough the importance of having solid, reliable h/w. Cheap PCs or PC components, if they cause problems, should be thrown in the garbage. That includes any new PCs (even name brands, "Cq" comes to mind) that are made from cheap components. No OS or app can run well on flaky h/w. People frequently ask me what to buy. I tell them to buy from the place I buy my computers - a local PC shop/ISP (white box builder) that also builds and maintains Linux business servers. Since Linux has such long uptime (few crashes), the h/w must be top-notch. They won't be as cheap as Dell, Gateway, HP, etc., but will be standard, non-proprietary, and very reliable. Best regards, Ivan Baggett Bagotronix Inc. website: www.bagotronix.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] OT: DIY: autorouter
Bevan: > Not to discourage you, but I think some of the best minds in the > industry have been working on autorouters for 20 years and we have 'what > we have.' If you can single-handedly come out with an autorouter that Phooey on that. Bevan, I encourage you in your autorouter development quest. PCB design has changed a lot in the last 20 years. Maybe some of the "traditional" algorithms don't work so well as they once did. Maybe you can discover something new. Maybe a simple algorithm will work better. Given the huge speed increases in modern PCs, maybe it's like a chess problem - you can consider more moves (routes) ahead if you have more computing power. Lots of tech advances have occurred because someone said "I think I can do it better than these folks who have been doing it for 20 years..." Best regards, Ivan Baggett Bagotronix Inc. website: www.bagotronix.com - Original Message - From: "Tony Karavidas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'Protel EDA Forum'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 6:41 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] OT: DIY: autorouter > Not to discourage you, but I think some of the best minds in the > industry have been working on autorouters for 20 years and we have 'what > we have.' If you can single-handedly come out with an autorouter that > performs better than what's out there, you will certainly become famous > / rich / etc. Someone will scoop your code up and integrate it, but for > some funny reason, I just don't see that occuring. > > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Bevan Weiss [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 4:35 AM > > To: Protel EDA Forum > > Subject: [PEDA] OT: DIY: autorouter > > > > > > Hi guys, > > I've been doing some research on the kinds of things to > > improve the autorouter (as per the desire to create my own). > > I've come up with some stuff that I'd like to bounce off ya's. > > > > Using a path-finding algorithm which assigns weights to > > various directions to travel (ie assuming that only 45deg > > angles are allowed, does anyone have a reason this isn't > > valid??) The default weighting would be to head towards the > > target pin (closest of the set), however if a large obstacle > > (ie dense gathering of wires) exists in the default path, > > then the algorithm would start to look at ways around the > > blockage, ie either using a via in which case you just > > perform the same operations on a different layer, or by going > > around the blockage. Weightings would be assigned to either > > of these (based on a static disadvantage for a via), if the > > side-track distance exceeds the disadvantage for the via > > however, then the via would be generated. > > > > The algorithm would take a single step forward (ie a single > > node point) for each connection pair, and then loop around > > and do the connection pairs again. I imagine that this would > > allow for better compromises to be made however other > > opinions on this are welcome. > > > > Just an update, > > Thanks for your time, > > Bevan Weiss * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] OT: DIY: autorouter
It might be interesting to consider the board as an array of spots, and route each track separately, noting which spots get used the most. Then use that data to cause the longer tracks through those points to flee those points. They are already long, making them a bit longer usually won't hurt. When I manually route, I try to get all the critical stuff in first, then the short stuff, then progressively longer tracks, looking for groups of signals that can be routed together. One thing that's hard to do in autorouters, is to consider return current. Current project: I have this printhead, that will take pulses of up to 10A, and dump them into "ground". Obviously I would prefer that current route back to the source cap on a dedicated track, but every AR I've ever seen would cheerfully dump it into the plane, and let it meander the entire board before getting home. In order to handle this, you'd have to have a way to flag a net as "high current", and to tell the system where it's source is. Stuff like this, is why I almost never autoroute. By the time I could get done setting up all the conditionals and fencing in the AR, I could have routed it myself. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
[PEDA] Quantity Column in DXP's BOM output
I would like to make an attempt to use DXP on some "real work" despite some of the "show stoppers" I have listed on the various forums and sent to Altium, however there is one item that I have not been able to resolve yet that is very important in my relationship with assembly houses. That would getting the BOM to list a quantity used for each part value like in P99SE's "Protel Format". I would very much appreciate it if anyone could help me find this feature in DXP or if it doesn't exist, maybe Altium would like to comment that this is planned for a future service pack. Rob * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] 45 degree pad problem !
Morning All: I have placed some rectangular pads on a 45 degree angle to accomodate a microstrip design. The problem is that when I generate gerbers, these pads on an angle have rounded corners. This changes copper layout enough to be a problem for my RF design. I am wondering if there is a setting in the gerber generation properties that can be changed to correct this problem. Anyone have a solution ? Thanks, Daniel Webster mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Protel99se and win2k fun
Julian, Long ago and far away, in a parallel universe, I had occasion to contact Protel Tech Support on the issue of what I should be looking for in a graphics card when I upgraded to a 2.2 GHz P4, and was told: Protel does not use any of the 3D stuff that is out there (which is pretty much game stuff anyway), and does all of its own 3D, as well as everything else, in 2D, and hence any hardware 3D is really useless for Protel, and may in fact cause problems (however this may no longer be true for DXP). I was also told that I should have my "Hardware Acceleration" set back from "Full" to about "half way to two thirds", since some of the more advanced hardware acceleration features can actually cause problems with Protel, and if I remember correctly, this may have been especially true of the ATI cards, however I was using an Nvidea GF2 at the time, but I think that that was supposed to be applicable to the ATI cards as well. This may or may not be valid data, but it should be worth a try, and may be a partial solution and keep your system from crashing until you get a new machine. Possibly others can comment on this point. On the issue of the size of the database and problems with the database itself, here a few observations that may be relevant and may be helpful until you get more computing power: I am assuming first of all that you are using the access database format, and that if so, that you have emptied your recycle bin, and do not have any extra drawings or other unnecessary things within the database, and also that you have "compact" on. I have found that one of the major killers for me in terms of slowing a system down or causing crashes are large "Polygon Planes", especially when they have to form around a lot of other circuitry and have very high resolution, and these things tend to bring Protel to it's knees, and even crash it. If you have large "Polygon Planes" in the design, you might try adjusting their parameters, or deleting them altogether for now and re-adding them back in at the very end of the design. Another problem that appears to be related to "Polygon Planes", but I am sure is not necessarily limited to them, since I am sure that this may occur with any large or complex database, is a problem I have recently encountered with "Print Preview". I have found that with large "Polygon Planes" that a "Print Preview" can appear to hang up, and even actually get lost and go south and never return. This is especially frustrating when there is an existing "Print Preview" that is open when the database opens because it will attempt to redraw everything right there before the rest of the database gets opened up, and can cause things to crash or appear to crash, when opening the database. I say "appear to hang up" and "appear to crash" here because on numerous occasions when Protel appeared to be "lost in space" I would check the Task Manager and find it saying that "Client99se is Not Responding", and assuming it to be dead, force it to "End Now". However, on one occasion I did note force it to "End Now" and simply closed the Task Manager and walked away for a while, only to come back and find that Protel had in fact returned from vacation and had actually finished the redraw of the "Print Preview", and was ready to go, which was really really bizarre. I bring this up simply because I have thus found out with my system, which is also running only 128 MB of RAM, that some things take a really really really long time, like 10 or more minutes long, and that just because the Task Manager says the program is out to lunch, that doesn't necessarily mean that it won't come back "after" lunch. With Protel, you have to be ready to accept anything. The next time it appears to be hung up, take a long long long break and see if it actually may come back to life. One final note, if you are using a "wheel" mouse with MS Intellimouse software, make sure you go to the MS website and have the latest version. Good luck on surviving until the hardware upgrade. JaMi Smith - Original Message - From: "Julian Higginson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 6:31 PM Subject: [PEDA] Protel99se and win2k fun > > Hey all, > > I just subscribed, looking for a bit of help if possible I have just > started a new job, and I'm taking over an existing design in protel99. Now > I'm very familiar with protel, however I'm getting a bunch of problems > generally crashing out (have had the whole computer reboot on me once, and I > have had freezes, exceptions, out of range memory accesses, all the fun > stuff) > > Basically the computer appears totally underpowered, its a PIII600 with just > 128Mb RAM. (We've just found another 128 meg stick lying about and put it in > this computer, which makes it run a bit more smoothly, but it has still > managed to crash) I'm operating on a PCB that is 6 layers and quite large. > (the PCB file is almost 8 meg) Oh, and it has an A
Re: [PEDA] Top Notch Talent for Troubleshooting.
I'm a little slow at times, but it just struck me that one of reasons that we are having all of the software problems that we are having with Protel / Altium is that Protel / Altium in Austraila may be may be enforcing the same high standards of excellence in their hiring practices when hiring Programmers for Protel products, as Altium in the US does when they are hiring Tech Support people. The next time one of you guys or gals down under spot Altium advertizing for any Programmers in the local papers (or where ever they advertize such things down under), post us a link or scan in the copy, so that we all can see. Thanks JaMi - Original Message - From: "JaMi Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Protel EDA Forum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: "JaMi Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, October 11, 2002 11:15 PM Subject: [PEDA] Top Notch Talent for Troubleshooting. > Did you all notice that Altium is on the hunt once again for the most highly > qualified individuals to help with your complex problems with their > software. > > What is really and truely amazing it the long duration of actual work > experience and the level of intimate knowledge of the Protel Product line > that is required before you can even be considered for one of these high > level positions. > > First Position: > http://jobsearch.monster.com/getjob.asp?JobID=16028411&AVSDM=2002%2D10%2D01+ > 14%3A59%3A00%2E000&CCD=my%2Emonster%2Ecom&JSD=jobsearch%2Emonster%2Ecom&HD=c > ompany%2Emonster%2Ecom&AD=http%3A%2F%2Fjobsearch%2Emonster%2Ecom%2Fjobsearch > %2Easp%3Fcy%3DUS%26brd%3D1%252C1863%26q%3Dprotel%26sort%3Ddt%26vw%3Db&Logo=1 > &col=dltci&cy=US&brd=1%2C1863&lid=&fn=&q=protel > > Second Position: > http://jobsearch.monster.com/getjob.asp?JobID=16028410&AVSDM=2002%2D10%2D01+ > 14%3A59%3A00%2E000&CCD=my%2Emonster%2Ecom&JSD=jobsearch%2Emonster%2Ecom&HD=c > ompany%2Emonster%2Ecom&AD=http%3A%2F%2Fjobsearch%2Emonster%2Ecom%2Fjobsearch > %2Easp%3Fcy%3DUS%26brd%3D1%252C1863%26q%3Dprotel%26sort%3Ddt%26vw%3Db&Logo=1 > &col=dltci&cy=US&brd=1%2C1863&lid=&fn=&q=protel > > I am not quite sure that anyone can paste these links back together and > actually get them to work, so if you can't, simply: > > Go to www.monster.com , then select job search, then select sort by "date", > and type protel in as a keyord and then hit "Search Jobs" > > There are actually two listings there, both for "Technical Consultant", and > both posted Oct 1, and they appear to possibly be the same. > > If you cannot access them, or they possibly dissappear before you get a > chance to look at them, I have made, shall we say, an archive, for anyone > who wants to see the demanding qualifications of the guy who will be > fielding all P99SE and DXP questions beginning in a week or two. > > JaMi * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] 45 degree pad problem !
Daniel, I am assuming that you are placing the pad in the design, and then made it rectangular and changed its rotation. Have you tried making the rectangular pad as a component, and then placing it and rotating it, or alternatly, rotating the pad within the component itself. Yet another approach would be placing a "Fill", and then rotating it, either directly in the design, or once again within a component. JaMi Smith - Original Message - From: "Daniel Webster" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'Protel EDA Forum'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 10:41 AM Subject: Re: [PEDA] 45 degree pad problem ! > Morning All: > > I have placed some rectangular pads on a 45 degree angle to accomodate a > microstrip design. The problem is that when I generate gerbers, these pads > on an angle have rounded corners. This changes copper layout enough to be a > problem for my RF design. I am wondering if there is a setting in the gerber > generation properties that can be changed to correct this problem. Anyone > have a solution ? > > Thanks, > Daniel Webster > > > > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > * > * To leave this list visit: > * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html > * > * Contact the list manager: > * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > * > * Forum Guidelines Rules: > * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html > * > * Browse or Search previous postings: > * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Top Notch Talent for Troubleshooting.
Here is one: http://www.altium.com/careers/co_aust_se.htm John Williams - Original Message - From: "JaMi Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Protel EDA Forum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: "JaMi Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 11:01 AM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Top Notch Talent for Troubleshooting. ... > The next time one of you guys or gals down under spot Altium advertizing for > any Programmers in the local papers (or where ever they advertize such > things down under), post us a link or scan in the copy, so that we all can > see. ... * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] 45 degree pad problem !
Daniel, I don't believe there is any fix for this problem. One Work-around that 'doesn't' work is to place a fill of the appropriate size and shape over the pad because when Gerbered the fill also gets drawn instead of flashed. I have usually found that the draw was with such a small aperture that it didn't round the corners very much. How much is yours being rounded, what size is the pad, what size aperture is used in the drawn Gerber? I would expect the pad is being drawn with an aperture of 10mil or less, then that is only a 5 mil radius. Is your engineer being too paranoid, our engineers have never worried about such minute details even at 35 - 40GHz? Sincerely, Brad Velander. Lead PCB Designer Norsat International Inc. Microwave Products Tel (604) 292-9089 (direct line) Fax (604) 292-9010 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.norsat.com Norsat's Microwave Products Division has now achieved ISO 9001:2000 certification > -Original Message- > From: Daniel Webster [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 10:42 AM > To: 'Protel EDA Forum' > Subject: Re: [PEDA] 45 degree pad problem ! > > > Morning All: > > I have placed some rectangular pads on a 45 degree angle to > accomodate a > microstrip design. The problem is that when I generate > gerbers, these pads > on an angle have rounded corners. This changes copper layout > enough to be a > problem for my RF design. I am wondering if there is a > setting in the gerber > generation properties that can be changed to correct this > problem. Anyone > have a solution ? > > Thanks, > Daniel Webster > > > > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > * > * To leave this list visit: > * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html > * > * Contact the list manager: > * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > * > * Forum Guidelines Rules: > * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html > * > * Browse or Search previous postings: > * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] 45 degree pad problem !
Jami, doesn't matter how you do it, Protel draws rotated pads or fills when gerbered. Sincerely, Brad Velander. Lead PCB Designer Norsat International Inc. Microwave Products Tel (604) 292-9089 (direct line) Fax (604) 292-9010 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.norsat.com Norsat's Microwave Products Division has now achieved ISO 9001:2000 certification > -Original Message- > From: JaMi Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 11:14 AM > To: Protel EDA Forum > Cc: JaMi Smith > Subject: Re: [PEDA] 45 degree pad problem ! > > > Daniel, > > I am assuming that you are placing the pad in the design, and > then made it > rectangular and changed its rotation. > > Have you tried making the rectangular pad as a component, and > then placing > it and rotating it, or alternatly, rotating the pad within > the component > itself. > > Yet another approach would be placing a "Fill", and then > rotating it, either > directly in the design, or once again within a component. > > JaMi Smith * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Top Notch Talent for Troubleshooting.
Thanks, That explains it all . . . The following paragraph was taken off of the website from one of the "Graduate Stories" under "Graduate Recruitment": "My role at Altium is Software Engineer, which entails developing new features for Altium's products. When I first started, I spent a week becoming familiar with the software and after that began developing straight away. My knowledge of the EDA industry was very limited at first, however each new project has provided me with a new challenge as well as a good opportunity to learn more." No comment required, as it speaks for itself. Thanks again JaMi - Original Message - From: "John Williams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Protel EDA Forum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 11:23 AM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Top Notch Talent for Troubleshooting. > Here is one: > > http://www.altium.com/careers/co_aust_se.htm > > John Williams > > > - Original Message - > From: "JaMi Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Protel EDA Forum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Cc: "JaMi Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 11:01 AM > Subject: Re: [PEDA] Top Notch Talent for Troubleshooting. > > > ... > > The next time one of you guys or gals down under spot Altium advertizing > for > > any Programmers in the local papers (or where ever they advertize such > > things down under), post us a link or scan in the copy, so that we all can > > see. > ... > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] 45 degree pad problem !
- Original Message - From: "Brad Velander" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'Protel EDA Forum'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 11:32 AM Subject: Re: [PEDA] 45 degree pad problem ! > Jami, > doesn't matter how you do it, Protel draws rotated pads or fills > when gerbered. > > Sincerely, > Brad Velander. > > Lead PCB Designer > Norsat International Inc. > Microwave Products > Tel (604) 292-9089 (direct line) > Fax (604) 292-9010 > email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://www.norsat.com > Norsat's Microwave Products Division has now achieved ISO 9001:2000 > certification > > > > > -Original Message- > > From: JaMi Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 11:14 AM > > To: Protel EDA Forum > > Cc: JaMi Smith > > Subject: Re: [PEDA] 45 degree pad problem ! > > > > > > Daniel, > > > > I am assuming that you are placing the pad in the design, and > > then made it > > rectangular and changed its rotation. > > > > Have you tried making the rectangular pad as a component, and > > then placing > > it and rotating it, or alternatly, rotating the pad within > > the component > > itself. > > > > Yet another approach would be placing a "Fill", and then > > rotating it, either > > directly in the design, or once again within a component. > > > > JaMi Smith * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] 45 degree pad problem !
Oops . . . I'll try again with a message this time . . . anyway, it's Wenesday, and my brain only functions on Tuesdays and Thursdays. I just thought that it might make a difference in how it is handled based on where it is encountered, and also if it was a fill verses a pad. Even if it is done at "gerber" time, it may make a difference in how Protel defines the "pad" to the gerber file based upon whether it is encountered as part of the design or part of a component, either of which should be different than a "fill" which it will most certainly "draw". Other than that it sounds like it is being drawn with the wrong size aperature, possibly too large. Oh well, thats all I can think of on a Wenesday . . . Thanks, JaMi - Original Message - From: "Brad Velander" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'Protel EDA Forum'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 11:32 AM Subject: Re: [PEDA] 45 degree pad problem ! > Jami, > doesn't matter how you do it, Protel draws rotated pads or fills > when gerbered. > > Sincerely, > Brad Velander. > > Lead PCB Designer > Norsat International Inc. > Microwave Products > Tel (604) 292-9089 (direct line) > Fax (604) 292-9010 > email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://www.norsat.com > Norsat's Microwave Products Division has now achieved ISO 9001:2000 > certification > > > > > -Original Message- > > From: JaMi Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 11:14 AM > > To: Protel EDA Forum > > Cc: JaMi Smith > > Subject: Re: [PEDA] 45 degree pad problem ! > > > > > > Daniel, > > > > I am assuming that you are placing the pad in the design, and > > then made it > > rectangular and changed its rotation. > > > > Have you tried making the rectangular pad as a component, and > > then placing > > it and rotating it, or alternatly, rotating the pad within > > the component > > itself. > > > > Yet another approach would be placing a "Fill", and then > > rotating it, either > > directly in the design, or once again within a component. > > > > JaMi Smith * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Fan out Via clearance
Shuping Lew wrote: > Jon, Thank you very much for your replied. > > Could you describe some more details? ---How to set up different grids > for Vias and traces? Grid setting for traces should be much smaller than > Via's... I'd like to set up 5mil for traces and 55 mil for vias so I can > run a trace in between. Is there any way to set up different grids for > auto router? Yes, you have a point, there. The detailed way to do this probably to set a rule such that vias cannot be closer than some calculated amount to other vias on a different net. (Does the autorouter follow such a rule?) Make that clearance enough so that a track plus the clearance on each side can then make it through between them. I can never remember exactly which rules the autorouter follows, and which it ignores. (The rules setup does tell you which ones are observed by the router.) Note that the grid is not an absolute restriction on track endpoints, however. If the track ends on some other primitive, it is allowed to go off-grid to hit the center of that primitive. That won't work for intermediate track segments, however. Jon * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Top Notch Talent for Troubleshooting.
Jami, you really are becoming quite offensive and at the same time showing your ignorance. I looked at what you viewed and you're obviously talking about Denzil Crasta. Just because he may not know DXP, or know PCB layout or SCH capture, doesn't me he isn't qualified to write code for those things. He has a boss, and his boss can hand him a spec saying "We want this feature xxx, do it this way" If he write his code and it performs to the spec, then he is a good programmer. If his output was accurate to the spec, but for some reason WE don't like what the app does, then the spec is bad and has nothing to do with this entry level programmer. The guy has two degrees, and while he is probably fairly inexperienced, he probably writes pretty good code because he isn't old and lazy yet. I would bet he takes the time to document his work properly because he is trying to make a good impression. Until you know of his particular skills, you should shut up. > -Original Message- > From: JaMi Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 12:10 PM > To: Protel EDA Forum > Cc: JaMi Smith > Subject: Re: [PEDA] Top Notch Talent for Troubleshooting. > > > Thanks, > > That explains it all . . . > > The following paragraph was taken off of the website from one > of the "Graduate Stories" under "Graduate Recruitment": > > "My role at Altium is Software Engineer, which entails > developing new features for Altium's products. When I first > started, I spent a week becoming familiar with the software > and after that began developing straight away. My knowledge > of the EDA industry was very limited at first, however each > new project has provided me with a new challenge as well as a > good opportunity to learn more." > > No comment required, as it speaks for itself. > > Thanks again > > JaMi > > > - Original Message - > From: "John Williams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Protel EDA Forum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 11:23 AM > Subject: Re: [PEDA] Top Notch Talent for Troubleshooting. > > > > Here is one: > > > > http://www.altium.com/careers/co_aust_se.htm > > > > John Williams > > > > > > - Original Message - > > From: "JaMi Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "Protel EDA Forum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Cc: "JaMi Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 11:01 AM > > Subject: Re: [PEDA] Top Notch Talent for Troubleshooting. > > > > > > ... > > > The next time one of you guys or gals down under spot Altium > > > advertizing > > for > > > any Programmers in the local papers (or where ever they advertize > > > such things down under), post us a link or scan in the > copy, so that > > > we all > can > > > see. > > ... > > > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] OT: DIY: autorouter
Thanks, I had completely forgotten about those situations where a ground plane isn't being used... There are several ways that I can think of to do this, if you give the router info on the maximum size of the current through the connection, and the maximum voltage drop across the connection (implied as 0.1V otherwise) then it will attempt to route the connection such that it always remains on the low side of the threshold, ie the track will be < X ohms in resistance over its length and the track throughout the route would be capable of handling the input current. This means that other tracks would be routed in perhaps a slightly longer route depending on the priority of that particular track with reference to the large power bus... This would require setting up priorities for different connections however, something which can be a little time consuming... Thanks for the feedback guys, I'll have a think about all these problems and will eventually get something worked out about them... - Original Message - From: "David VanHorn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Protel EDA Forum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2002 5:31 AM Subject: Re: [PEDA] OT: DIY: autorouter > > It might be interesting to consider the board as an array of spots, and route each track separately, noting which spots get used the most. Then use that data to cause the longer tracks through those points to flee those points. They are already long, making them a bit longer usually won't hurt. > > When I manually route, I try to get all the critical stuff in first, then the short stuff, then progressively longer tracks, looking for groups of signals that can be routed together. > > One thing that's hard to do in autorouters, is to consider return current. Current project: I have this printhead, that will take pulses of up to 10A, and dump them into "ground". Obviously I would prefer that current route back to the source cap on a dedicated track, but every AR I've ever seen would cheerfully dump it into the plane, and let it meander the entire board before getting home. > > In order to handle this, you'd have to have a way to flag a net as "high current", and to tell the system where it's source is. > > Stuff like this, is why I almost never autoroute. By the time I could get done setting up all the conditionals and fencing in the AR, I could have routed it myself. > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
[PEDA] Fan out Vias
It will not work if just simply setting up bigger routing grids. It may works if a clearance is set to match the grid. But it will be too large for the fan out traces. I set up the clearance by via spec. (21 mil clearance between vias so a 7/7mil trace can go through). I gave the router a try. Some vias are still very close together. I received a phone call from Protel yesterday. There is no rule to meet such requirement for neither 99SE nor DXP. However, I was asked to send them the file for research. Hope a way will be found to work around... I am just wondering how other Protel users do the fan out vias. How many people actually use the auto router for fan out option? Are most of the jobs manually done by the designer(s)? Thank you for all the replied! Shuping -Original Message- From: Jon Elson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 12:33 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Fan out Via clearance Shuping Lew wrote: > Jon, Thank you very much for your replied. > > Could you describe some more details? ---How to set up different grids > for Vias and traces? Grid setting for traces should be much smaller than > Via's... I'd like to set up 5mil for traces and 55 mil for vias so I can > run a trace in between. Is there any way to set up different grids for > auto router? Yes, you have a point, there. The detailed way to do this probably to set a rule such that vias cannot be closer than some calculated amount to other vias on a different net. (Does the autorouter follow such a rule?) Make that clearance enough so that a track plus the clearance on each side can then make it through between them. I can never remember exactly which rules the autorouter follows, and which it ignores. (The rules setup does tell you which ones are observed by the router.) Note that the grid is not an absolute restriction on track endpoints, however. If the track ends on some other primitive, it is allowed to go off-grid to hit the center of that primitive. That won't work for intermediate track segments, however. Jon * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Quantity Column in DXP's BOM output
Hi Rob, Yes it is a nuisance that we cannot get a breakdown of component quantities, even the Protel format is not always perfect. So, we here use an Excel VB script I wrote to process the BOM, in fact it can select multiple xls files, add a quantity, select fields to match by and select fields to output to a final "project" BOM. Its fairly basic but seems to work. I could make this available if no other soultion is found. Cheers, Rob Young wrote: >I would like to make an attempt to use DXP on some "real work" despite some >of the "show stoppers" I have listed on the various forums and sent to >Altium, however there is one item that I have not been able to resolve yet >that is very important in my relationship with assembly houses. That would >getting the BOM to list a quantity used for each part value like in P99SE's >"Protel Format". > >I would very much appreciate it if anyone could help me find this feature in >DXP or if it doesn't exist, maybe Altium would like to comment that this is >planned for a future service pack. > >Rob > > -- Don Mayfield Anglo-Australian Observatory 167 Vimiera Rd Eastwood NSW 2122 Australia Ph. 61-2-9372-4836 Fax. 61-2-9372-4880 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Fan out Vias
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Re: [PEDA] Top Notch Talent for Troubleshooting.
G'Day Mate (JaMi), Down here at Altium in Oz, we don't really like to focus on technical stuff when looking for new blokes to join, we reckon its a bit limiting so we look for much more IMPORTANT stuff !! Its a tough place so we look for REAL skills, ya know, kangaroo culling, crocodile bating, shark fishing , that sort of thing - after all, if you can handle real stuff then a few million lines of this dinky software engineering stuff must be kids stuff - right ?? Crikey mate, relax!! - we got it all under control (well we will have when get those pesky possums out of the office roof). See ya later, EDA Dundee !! PS - If your having any real problems (you know, roos in then vegie patch etc), let us know and we'll send the boys round to help !! PPS - No worries about being a bit slow JaMi, its probably not your fault - hey, I feel that way all the time - must be all this new fangled computer stuff !! - Original Message - From: "JaMi Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Protel EDA Forum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: "JaMi Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2002 4:01 AM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Top Notch Talent for Troubleshooting. > I'm a little slow at times, but it just struck me that one of reasons that > we are having all of the software problems that we are having with Protel / > Altium is that Protel / Altium in Austraila may be may be enforcing the same > high standards of excellence in their hiring practices when hiring > Programmers for Protel products, as Altium in the US does when they are > hiring Tech Support people. > > The next time one of you guys or gals down under spot Altium advertizing for > any Programmers in the local papers (or where ever they advertize such > things down under), post us a link or scan in the copy, so that we all can > see. > > Thanks > > JaMi > > - Original Message - > From: "JaMi Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Protel EDA Forum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Cc: "JaMi Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Friday, October 11, 2002 11:15 PM > Subject: [PEDA] Top Notch Talent for Troubleshooting. > > > > Did you all notice that Altium is on the hunt once again for the most > highly > > qualified individuals to help with your complex problems with their > > software. > > > > What is really and truely amazing it the long duration of actual work > > experience and the level of intimate knowledge of the Protel Product line > > that is required before you can even be considered for one of these high > > level positions. > > > > First Position: > > > http://jobsearch.monster.com/getjob.asp?JobID=16028411&AVSDM=2002%2D10%2D01+ > > > 14%3A59%3A00%2E000&CCD=my%2Emonster%2Ecom&JSD=jobsearch%2Emonster%2Ecom&HD=c > > > ompany%2Emonster%2Ecom&AD=http%3A%2F%2Fjobsearch%2Emonster%2Ecom%2Fjobsearch > > > %2Easp%3Fcy%3DUS%26brd%3D1%252C1863%26q%3Dprotel%26sort%3Ddt%26vw%3Db&Logo=1 > > &col=dltci&cy=US&brd=1%2C1863&lid=&fn=&q=protel > > > > Second Position: > > > http://jobsearch.monster.com/getjob.asp?JobID=16028410&AVSDM=2002%2D10%2D01+ > > > 14%3A59%3A00%2E000&CCD=my%2Emonster%2Ecom&JSD=jobsearch%2Emonster%2Ecom&HD=c > > > ompany%2Emonster%2Ecom&AD=http%3A%2F%2Fjobsearch%2Emonster%2Ecom%2Fjobsearch > > > %2Easp%3Fcy%3DUS%26brd%3D1%252C1863%26q%3Dprotel%26sort%3Ddt%26vw%3Db&Logo=1 > > &col=dltci&cy=US&brd=1%2C1863&lid=&fn=&q=protel > > > > I am not quite sure that anyone can paste these links back together and > > actually get them to work, so if you can't, simply: > > > > Go to www.monster.com , then select job search, then select sort by > "date", > > and type protel in as a keyord and then hit "Search Jobs" > > > > There are actually two listings there, both for "Technical Consultant", > and > > both posted Oct 1, and they appear to possibly be the same. > > > > If you cannot access them, or they possibly dissappear before you get a > > chance to look at them, I have made, shall we say, an archive, for anyone > > who wants to see the demanding qualifications of the guy who will be > > fielding all P99SE and DXP questions beginning in a week or two. > > > > JaMi > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Quantity Column in DXP's BOM output
Please do!! :) > -Original Message- > From: Don Mayfield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 3:04 PM > To: Protel EDA Forum > Subject: Re: [PEDA] Quantity Column in DXP's BOM output > > > Hi Rob, > > Yes it is a nuisance that we cannot get a breakdown of component > quantities, even the Protel > format is not always perfect. So, we here use an Excel VB > script I wrote > to process the BOM, > in fact it can select multiple xls files, add a quantity, > select fields > to match by and select fields to > output to a final "project" BOM. Its fairly basic but seems > to work. I > could make this available > if no other soultion is found. > > Cheers, > > Rob Young wrote: > > >I would like to make an attempt to use DXP on some "real > work" despite > >some of the "show stoppers" I have listed on the various forums and > >sent to Altium, however there is one item that I have not > been able to > >resolve yet that is very important in my relationship with assembly > >houses. That would getting the BOM to list a quantity used for each > >part value like in P99SE's "Protel Format". > > > >I would very much appreciate it if anyone could help me find this > >feature in DXP or if it doesn't exist, maybe Altium would like to > >comment that this is planned for a future service pack. > > > >Rob > > > > > > -- > Don Mayfield > Anglo-Australian Observatory > 167 Vimiera Rd > Eastwood > NSW 2122 > Australia > Ph. 61-2-9372-4836 > Fax. 61-2-9372-4880 > > > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Fan out Vias
The Protel AR is good for more than small TH PCBs. I have used it on SMT multilayer boards with no problems (but some annoyances!). It doesn't crash on me, but it will do stupid things (multiple routes from a pad to a ground plane, for example). If you have 1024 channels of identical ciruitry, you are probably better off hand-routing 1 channel and copying it 1023 times. Then manually route to the connectors. Don't give it to the AR, it will come up with 1024 different ways to route the same circuit! Best regards, Ivan Baggett Bagotronix Inc. website: www.bagotronix.com - Original Message - From: "Jun Gong" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'Protel EDA Forum'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 6:06 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Fan out Vias > You are right. I never use autorouter. even for small board. You can not > rely on it to do whole job or complex job. > > I have a large board, contains 1024 SO-8 chips, 256 capacitors, and > connectors for 1024 input signal, 1024 output signals. When I firstly used > protel 99se to auto-route it, Protel 99se quitted the job after 1 hour > without doing any modification on it. When I used ProtelDXP trial version, > DXP worked very hard, it even exhausted my 600M virtual memory , forced > Win2K to enlarge its virtual memory. But after 67 hours 53 minuts, DXP also > looked dead, and its last message was "finished 2172 connections of 3490 > total connections." > > I think Protel router can hand small through-hole PCB. Don't try it on big > board, or board with many SMD parts. > > With proper rules and careful placement, you can let it do simple jobs, such > as fan-out, memory routing. > > Jun * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Top Notch Talent for Troubleshooting.
> Its a tough place so we look for REAL skills, ya know, kangaroo culling, > crocodile bating, Do you mean baiting, as in setting out bait for them? Or batting, as in clubbing them with a baseball bat? The former sounds dangerous, the latter insane... We have alligators here in Florida USA, sort of like miniature crocs... Best regards, Ivan Baggett Bagotronix Inc. website: www.bagotronix.com - Original Message - From: "EDA Dundee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Protel EDA Forum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 6:18 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Top Notch Talent for Troubleshooting. > G'Day Mate (JaMi), > > Down here at Altium in Oz, we don't really like to focus on technical stuff > when looking for new blokes to join, we reckon its a bit limiting so we look > for much more IMPORTANT stuff !! > > Its a tough place so we look for REAL skills, ya know, kangaroo culling, > crocodile bating, shark fishing , that sort of thing - after all, if you can > handle real stuff then a few million lines of this dinky software > engineering stuff must be kids stuff - right ?? > > Crikey mate, relax!! - we got it all under control (well we will have when > get those pesky possums out of the office roof). > > See ya later, > > EDA Dundee !! > > PS - If your having any real problems (you know, roos in then vegie patch > etc), let us know and we'll send the boys round to help !! > > PPS - No worries about being a bit slow JaMi, its probably not your fault - > hey, I feel that way all the time - must be all this new fangled computer > stuff !! * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Top Notch Talent for Troubleshooting.
On 06:36 PM 16/10/2002 -0400, Bagotronix Tech Support said: > > Its a tough place so we look for REAL skills, ya know, kangaroo culling, > > crocodile bating, > >Do you mean baiting, as in setting out bait for them? Or batting, as in >clubbing them with a baseball bat? The former sounds dangerous, the latter >insane... Ivan, No bating is correct - it is a little game we play in our lunch hour in many workplaces - you all get into the creek and flap about a bit. Last one out when the croc approaches is the winner. How do you think Thorpie learnt to swim so fast. Do shark bating as well at the beach as well - when the shark alarm goes off at the beach, you try to be the last one out. Boss bating is another ripper. BTW - what is baseball? The only bat we know down here on top of the world is a cricket bat. Hooroo, cobbers, Ian * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Top Notch Talent for Troubleshooting.
skuse my spelling... I meant baiting - batting does sound insane.. EDA Dundee - Original Message - From: "Bagotronix Tech Support" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Protel EDA Forum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2002 8:36 AM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Top Notch Talent for Troubleshooting. > > Its a tough place so we look for REAL skills, ya know, kangaroo culling, > > crocodile bating, > > Do you mean baiting, as in setting out bait for them? Or batting, as in > clubbing them with a baseball bat? The former sounds dangerous, the latter > insane... > > We have alligators here in Florida USA, sort of like miniature crocs... > > Best regards, > Ivan Baggett > Bagotronix Inc. > website: www.bagotronix.com > > > - Original Message - > From: "EDA Dundee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Protel EDA Forum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 6:18 PM > Subject: Re: [PEDA] Top Notch Talent for Troubleshooting. > > > > G'Day Mate (JaMi), > > > > Down here at Altium in Oz, we don't really like to focus on technical > stuff > > when looking for new blokes to join, we reckon its a bit limiting so we > look > > for much more IMPORTANT stuff !! > > > > Its a tough place so we look for REAL skills, ya know, kangaroo culling, > > crocodile bating, shark fishing , that sort of thing - after all, if you > can > > handle real stuff then a few million lines of this dinky software > > engineering stuff must be kids stuff - right ?? > > > > Crikey mate, relax!! - we got it all under control (well we will have when > > get those pesky possums out of the office roof). > > > > See ya later, > > > > EDA Dundee !! > > > > PS - If your having any real problems (you know, roos in then vegie patch > > etc), let us know and we'll send the boys round to help !! > > > > PPS - No worries about being a bit slow JaMi, its probably not your > fault - > > hey, I feel that way all the time - must be all this new fangled computer > > stuff !! > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Hypertronics or Hypertac HPH connector footprin ts
Sorry! Bit too specific on the URL. Go to http://www.hypertronics.com/catalog2001/h_series/ Grab the pdf file, or open the specific pages. The information IS there. Dave Sanders -Original Message- From: Terry Harris [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 5:01 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Hypertronics or Hypertac HPH connector footprin ts On Wed, 16 Oct 2002 08:39:39 +0930, Dave Sanders wrote: >Why can't you just go to the web site? >ie. >http://www.hypertronics.com/catalog2001/h_series/h-6.html The drawings there have no dimensions for the connector housing and don't show a 5 row right angle footprint (which I could probably guess - but guessing footprints is a recipe for disaster). The Hypertac european site has different even less useful drawings and two drawings with conflicting dimensions for the required offset from the PCB edge. That is why I asked for sufficient and non-conflicting information or a proven footprint. I was in the process of muddeling through and guessing when I thought I would ask here before carrying on. Cheers, Terry. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] 45 degree pad problem !
On 11:31 AM 16/10/2002 -0700, Brad Velander said: >Daniel, > I don't believe there is any fix for this problem. One Work-around >that 'doesn't' work is to place a fill of the appropriate size and shape >over the pad because when Gerbered the fill also gets drawn instead of >flashed. I have usually found that the draw was with such a small aperture >that it didn't round the corners very much. > How much is yours being rounded, what size is the pad, what size >aperture is used in the drawn Gerber? I would expect the pad is being drawn >with an aperture of 10mil or less, then that is only a 5 mil radius. Is your >engineer being too paranoid, our engineers have never worried about such >minute details even at 35 - 40GHz? Brad, I think there may be a sort of fix. One fix is to ensure there is a smaller aperture in your design. Add in a 2mil string somewhere (on a mech layer) to force inclusion of a 2-mill apt and it should paint the corners with this smaller apt. At least this was how you could improve things way back in the Autotrax days (by including a small apt in the apt file) - the current pad and fill drawing code may well be similar. I haven't tested this to confirm the old behavior. In general Protel will flash what it can, but some things will be drawn, and I believe with the smallest available apt - but I could be wrong. A nice option would be to allow the pad and fill drawing code to request an apt, size set by the user, if only larger ones are used elsewhere in the design. So you could control the maximum radii of corners. If I was really fussed about repeatable boards, I would run a track on the outside of my fill to make sure that *all* plotted versions looked the same. Nothing was left to chance. It would mean all rotated fills had, controlled, rounded corners. A pain with rotated pads if there are lots of them. Bye for now, Ian * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Fan out Vias
Shuping, In DXP there is a rule scope 'InRegion' this can be used to set different rules to an area, like under a BGA. You use a Query with any rules to set the region for the rule to work in, or Not in. Darren Moore > -Original Message- > From: Shuping Lew [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > It will not work if just simply setting up bigger routing > grids. It may > works if a clearance is set to match the grid. But it will be > too large > for the fan out traces. I set up the clearance by via spec. (21 mil > clearance between vias so a 7/7mil trace can go through). I gave the > router a try. Some vias are still very close together. > > I received a phone call from Protel yesterday. There is no > rule to meet > such requirement for neither 99SE nor DXP. However, I was > asked to send > them the file for research. Hope a way will be found to work around... > > I am just wondering how other Protel users do the fan out > vias. How many > people actually use the auto router for fan out option? Are > most of the > jobs manually done by the designer(s)? > > Thank you for all the replied! > > Shuping * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Protel99se and win2k fun
JaMi, there it is, the root of your problems. You have only 128MB of RAM. Upgrade that and you will have Protel running happily and will save yourself a lot of frustration. And don't forget to install a video card with at least 16MB RAM. They don't even make them with less than 32MB today. Igor -Original Message- From: JaMi Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, 17 October 2002 3:45 AM To: Protel EDA Forum Cc: JaMi Smith Subject: Re: [PEDA] Protel99se and win2k fun Julian, Long ago and far away, in a parallel universe, I had occasion to contact Protel Tech Support on the issue of what I should be looking for in a graphics card when I upgraded to a 2.2 GHz P4, and was told: Protel does not use any of the 3D stuff that is out there (which is pretty much game stuff anyway), and does all of its own 3D, as well as everything else, in 2D, and hence any hardware 3D is really useless for Protel, and may in fact cause problems (however this may no longer be true for DXP). I was also told that I should have my "Hardware Acceleration" set back from "Full" to about "half way to two thirds", since some of the more advanced hardware acceleration features can actually cause problems with Protel, and if I remember correctly, this may have been especially true of the ATI cards, however I was using an Nvidea GF2 at the time, but I think that that was supposed to be applicable to the ATI cards as well. This may or may not be valid data, but it should be worth a try, and may be a partial solution and keep your system from crashing until you get a new machine. Possibly others can comment on this point. On the issue of the size of the database and problems with the database itself, here a few observations that may be relevant and may be helpful until you get more computing power: I am assuming first of all that you are using the access database format, and that if so, that you have emptied your recycle bin, and do not have any extra drawings or other unnecessary things within the database, and also that you have "compact" on. I have found that one of the major killers for me in terms of slowing a system down or causing crashes are large "Polygon Planes", especially when they have to form around a lot of other circuitry and have very high resolution, and these things tend to bring Protel to it's knees, and even crash it. If you have large "Polygon Planes" in the design, you might try adjusting their parameters, or deleting them altogether for now and re-adding them back in at the very end of the design. Another problem that appears to be related to "Polygon Planes", but I am sure is not necessarily limited to them, since I am sure that this may occur with any large or complex database, is a problem I have recently encountered with "Print Preview". I have found that with large "Polygon Planes" that a "Print Preview" can appear to hang up, and even actually get lost and go south and never return. This is especially frustrating when there is an existing "Print Preview" that is open when the database opens because it will attempt to redraw everything right there before the rest of the database gets opened up, and can cause things to crash or appear to crash, when opening the database. I say "appear to hang up" and "appear to crash" here because on numerous occasions when Protel appeared to be "lost in space" I would check the Task Manager and find it saying that "Client99se is Not Responding", and assuming it to be dead, force it to "End Now". However, on one occasion I did note force it to "End Now" and simply closed the Task Manager and walked away for a while, only to come back and find that Protel had in fact returned from vacation and had actually finished the redraw of the "Print Preview", and was ready to go, which was really really bizarre. I bring this up simply because I have thus found out with my system, which is also running only 128 MB of RAM, that some things take a really really really long time, like 10 or more minutes long, and that just because the Task Manager says the program is out to lunch, that doesn't necessarily mean that it won't come back "after" lunch. With Protel, you have to be ready to accept anything. The next time it appears to be hung up, take a long long long break and see if it actually may come back to life. One final note, if you are using a "wheel" mouse with MS Intellimouse software, make sure you go to the MS website and have the latest version. Good luck on surviving until the hardware upgrade. JaMi Smith - Original Message - From: "Julian Higginson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 6:31 PM Subject: [PEDA] Protel99se and win2k fun > > Hey all, > > I just subscribed, looking for a bit of help if possible I have just > started a new job, and I'm taking over an existing design in protel99. Now > I'm very familiar with protel, however I'm getting a bunch of problems > generally crashing out (hav
[PEDA] Altium....Are you guys crazy!!!
Altium, please explain the logic in no longer providing a quantity column in BOM outputs or allowing more than one designator per line. What could have possibly possessed you guys to remove the quantity column in DXP's BOM formats! I am 99% convinced that a quantity option is not in DXP as I have posted this to several forums and in direct emails to Altium with no reply from them. So I must now assume that there is no way to derive a quantity of a particular component in DXP! You can't possibly expect someone to count line by line to find out how many 0.1uF caps are on a board with over 1500 components not to mention how many pages the BOM will span with one designator per line. While not perfect as Don has suggested, the "Protel Format" in P99SE was workable. With a few more tweaks on Altium's part, it could have been a very good BOM output, but now you guys have removed it all together! Please consider putting the "Protel Format" BOM or something similar back into DXP. I personally can't seem to work with the current BOM outputs in DXP with their unweildly number of pages. I seriously would have thought that more users would have complained about this, so perhaps I am just being nitpicky, but it just seems like such a basic operation for a BOM output. This is one of the few remaining hurdles left for me in using DXP for an actual project. I'm sure I could resort to using an Excel VB script such as Don has suggested, but while not perfect, the Protel Format has always suited my purposes just fine. Rob - Original Message - From: "Tony Karavidas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'Protel EDA Forum'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 6:32 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Quantity Column in DXP's BOM output > Please do!! :) > > > -Original Message- > > From: Don Mayfield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 3:04 PM > > To: Protel EDA Forum > > Subject: Re: [PEDA] Quantity Column in DXP's BOM output > > > > > > Hi Rob, > > > > Yes it is a nuisance that we cannot get a breakdown of component > > quantities, even the Protel > > format is not always perfect. So, we here use an Excel VB > > script I wrote > > to process the BOM, > > in fact it can select multiple xls files, add a quantity, > > select fields > > to match by and select fields to > > output to a final "project" BOM. Its fairly basic but seems > > to work. I > > could make this available > > if no other soultion is found. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Rob Young wrote: > > > > >I would like to make an attempt to use DXP on some "real > > work" despite > > >some of the "show stoppers" I have listed on the various forums and > > >sent to Altium, however there is one item that I have not > > been able to > > >resolve yet that is very important in my relationship with assembly > > >houses. That would getting the BOM to list a quantity used for each > > >part value like in P99SE's "Protel Format". > > > > > >I would very much appreciate it if anyone could help me find this > > >feature in DXP or if it doesn't exist, maybe Altium would like to > > >comment that this is planned for a future service pack. > > > > > >Rob > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Don Mayfield > > Anglo-Australian Observatory > > 167 Vimiera Rd > > Eastwood > > NSW 2122 > > Australia > > Ph. 61-2-9372-4836 > > Fax. 61-2-9372-4880 > > > > > > > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Fan out Via clearance
Jon, if this is true, it then explains why all those short tracks appear under pads. Basically, it is not a gridless autorouter, unless there is a definition of 'gridless' that is different from my understanding of the word. Igor -Original Message- From: Jon Elson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, 17 October 2002 5:33 AM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Fan out Via clearance Shuping Lew wrote: > Jon, Thank you very much for your replied. > > Could you describe some more details? ---How to set up different grids > for Vias and traces? Grid setting for traces should be much smaller than > Via's... I'd like to set up 5mil for traces and 55 mil for vias so I can > run a trace in between. Is there any way to set up different grids for > auto router? Yes, you have a point, there. The detailed way to do this probably to set a rule such that vias cannot be closer than some calculated amount to other vias on a different net. (Does the autorouter follow such a rule?) Make that clearance enough so that a track plus the clearance on each side can then make it through between them. I can never remember exactly which rules the autorouter follows, and which it ignores. (The rules setup does tell you which ones are observed by the router.) Note that the grid is not an absolute restriction on track endpoints, however. If the track ends on some other primitive, it is allowed to go off-grid to hit the center of that primitive. That won't work for intermediate track segments, however. Jon * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Altium....Are you guys crazy!!!
Yes, its terrible. I had to export the BOM to Excel and rebuild it using macros. Big nuisance, big hassle. Sincerely, Tim Hutcheson -Original Message- From: Rob Young [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 7:14 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [PEDA] AltiumAre you guys crazy!!! Altium, please explain the logic in no longer providing a quantity column in BOM outputs or allowing more than one designator per line. What could have possibly possessed you guys to remove the quantity column in DXP's BOM formats! I am 99% convinced that a quantity option is not in DXP as I have posted this to several forums and in direct emails to Altium with no reply from them. So I must now assume that there is no way to derive a quantity of a particular component in DXP! You can't possibly expect someone to count line by line to find out how many 0.1uF caps are on a board with over 1500 components not to mention how many pages the BOM will span with one designator per line. While not perfect as Don has suggested, the "Protel Format" in P99SE was workable. With a few more tweaks on Altium's part, it could have been a very good BOM output, but now you guys have removed it all together! Please consider putting the "Protel Format" BOM or something similar back into DXP. I personally can't seem to work with the current BOM outputs in DXP with their unweildly number of pages. I seriously would have thought that more users would have complained about this, so perhaps I am just being nitpicky, but it just seems like such a basic operation for a BOM output. This is one of the few remaining hurdles left for me in using DXP for an actual project. I'm sure I could resort to using an Excel VB script such as Don has suggested, but while not perfect, the Protel Format has always suited my purposes just fine. Rob - Original Message - From: "Tony Karavidas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'Protel EDA Forum'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 6:32 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Quantity Column in DXP's BOM output > Please do!! :) > > > -Original Message- > > From: Don Mayfield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 3:04 PM > > To: Protel EDA Forum > > Subject: Re: [PEDA] Quantity Column in DXP's BOM output > > > > > > Hi Rob, > > > > Yes it is a nuisance that we cannot get a breakdown of component > > quantities, even the Protel > > format is not always perfect. So, we here use an Excel VB > > script I wrote > > to process the BOM, > > in fact it can select multiple xls files, add a quantity, > > select fields > > to match by and select fields to > > output to a final "project" BOM. Its fairly basic but seems > > to work. I > > could make this available > > if no other soultion is found. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Rob Young wrote: > > > > >I would like to make an attempt to use DXP on some "real > > work" despite > > >some of the "show stoppers" I have listed on the various forums and > > >sent to Altium, however there is one item that I have not > > been able to > > >resolve yet that is very important in my relationship with assembly > > >houses. That would getting the BOM to list a quantity used for each > > >part value like in P99SE's "Protel Format". > > > > > >I would very much appreciate it if anyone could help me find this > > >feature in DXP or if it doesn't exist, maybe Altium would like to > > >comment that this is planned for a future service pack. > > > > > >Rob > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Don Mayfield > > Anglo-Australian Observatory > > 167 Vimiera Rd > > Eastwood > > NSW 2122 > > Australia > > Ph. 61-2-9372-4836 > > Fax. 61-2-9372-4880 > > > > > > > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Protel99se and win2k fun
On 10:17 AM 17/10/2002 +1000, Igor Gmitrovic said: >JaMi, > >there it is, the root of your problems. You have only 128MB of RAM. >Upgrade that and you will have Protel running happily and will save >yourself a lot of frustration. And don't forget to install a video card >with at least 16MB RAM. They don't even make them with less than 32MB today. > >Igor Igor , I know of two computers with 128 MB of RAM that run P99SE without crashing if the resource meter is watched (these are all Win98 machines). I know of another that is similarly configured that was always a problem but we assumed this to be due to the person using it always loving to install new whizzy applets and a new media gadget. Now that this machine has been locked down it is better but not ideal (it is a very cheap and nasty machine). Of these two good machines one is very cheap and nasty and the other is a build-your-own from quality parts. The good cheap and nasty machine is not mucked about with and new software is evaluated before the user installs it (on another machine) - so they tell me. The machine I use now used to have only 96MB of RAM (Win 2K as well) and was very stable running P99SE on Access DDB's with PCB files sizes up to order of 2 MB at least. It is now a slow, 256 MB machine. It is not as simple as just not enough memory, though I agree that Protel loves lots of it. And users will appreciate the benefits it brings, a cheap improvement. But if a machine is crashing lots, adding more RAM *may* not help at all. (I think Altium would do themselves a world of favours understanding more about the significant percentage of users that report lots of crashes and do more to make clear the reasons and the fixes even if these involve hardware advice.) It would be really good if we understood more on this persistent issue. I do not see the same problems being reported on other CAD programs user groups but maybe I am not looking in the right places. Ian Wilson * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Altium....Are you guys crazy!!!
All of DXP and the reasons for it's development are baffling to me. I refuse to use it. They throw away a good program, push out a pc of junk which is initially entirely non-functional, and then pump us (for free) for details on how it should work. what is the current las vegas betting line on SP7 for 99SE ? Dennis Saputelli Rob Young wrote: > > Altium, please explain the logic in no longer providing a quantity column > in BOM outputs or allowing more than one designator per line. What could > have possibly possessed you guys to remove the quantity column in DXP's BOM > formats! I am 99% convinced that a quantity option is not in DXP as I have > posted this to several forums and in direct emails to Altium with no reply > from them. So I must now assume that there is no way to derive a quantity > of a particular component in DXP! You can't possibly expect someone to > count line by line to find out how many 0.1uF caps are on a board with over > 1500 components not to mention how many pages the BOM will span with one > designator per line. While not perfect as Don has suggested, the "Protel > Format" in P99SE was workable. With a few more tweaks on Altium's part, it > could have been a very good BOM output, but now you guys have removed it all > together! > > Please consider putting the "Protel Format" BOM or something similar back > into DXP. I personally can't seem to work with the current BOM outputs in > DXP with their unweildly number of pages. I seriously would have thought > that more users would have complained about this, so perhaps I am just being > nitpicky, but it just seems like such a basic operation for a BOM output. > > This is one of the few remaining hurdles left for me in using DXP for an > actual project. I'm sure I could resort to using an Excel VB script such as > Don has suggested, but while not perfect, the Protel Format has always > suited my purposes just fine. > > Rob > > - Original Message - > From: "Tony Karavidas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "'Protel EDA Forum'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 6:32 PM > Subject: Re: [PEDA] Quantity Column in DXP's BOM output > > > Please do!! :) > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: Don Mayfield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 3:04 PM > > > To: Protel EDA Forum > > > Subject: Re: [PEDA] Quantity Column in DXP's BOM output > > > > > > > > > Hi Rob, > > > > > > Yes it is a nuisance that we cannot get a breakdown of component > > > quantities, even the Protel > > > format is not always perfect. So, we here use an Excel VB > > > script I wrote > > > to process the BOM, > > > in fact it can select multiple xls files, add a quantity, > > > select fields > > > to match by and select fields to > > > output to a final "project" BOM. Its fairly basic but seems > > > to work. I > > > could make this available > > > if no other soultion is found. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > Rob Young wrote: > > > > > > >I would like to make an attempt to use DXP on some "real > > > work" despite > > > >some of the "show stoppers" I have listed on the various forums and > > > >sent to Altium, however there is one item that I have not > > > been able to > > > >resolve yet that is very important in my relationship with assembly > > > >houses. That would getting the BOM to list a quantity used for each > > > >part value like in P99SE's "Protel Format". > > > > > > > >I would very much appreciate it if anyone could help me find this > > > >feature in DXP or if it doesn't exist, maybe Altium would like to > > > >comment that this is planned for a future service pack. > > > > > > > >Rob > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Don Mayfield > > > Anglo-Australian Observatory > > > 167 Vimiera Rd > > > Eastwood > > > NSW 2122 > > > Australia > > > Ph. 61-2-9372-4836 > > > Fax. 61-2-9372-4880 > > > > > > > > > > > > -- ___ www.integratedcontrolsinc.comIntegrated Controls, Inc. tel: 415-647-04802851 21st Street fax: 415-647-3003San Francisco, CA 94110 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Hypertronics or Hypertac HPH connector footprin ts
On Thu, 17 Oct 2002 09:14:32 +0930, you wrote: >Sorry! Bit too specific on the URL. >Go to http://www.hypertronics.com/catalog2001/h_series/ >Grab the pdf file, or open the specific pages. The information IS there. I had that PDF before posting this question. It does not contain sufficient information. No point arguing about this anymore. Cheers, Terry. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Protel99se and win2k fun
On Thu, 17 Oct 2002 10:39:53 +1000, Ian Wilson wrote: >I know of two computers with 128 MB of RAM that run P99SE without crashing >if the resource meter is watched (these are all Win98 machines). Just a confirmation - if you have insufficient physical memory you get swap file access, very insufficient physical memory you get thrashing which is painfully obvious. >From a previous thread here long ago it does seem 99 is prone to crashing with insufficient virtual memory. Personally I don't think I have ever seen 99SE using more than 30MB of physical memory (that doesn't mean it hasn't committed significantly more virtual memory). Win2k is crawling with performance meters letting you monitor all kinds of memory, swap file, and paging operations. Cheers, Terry. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Top Notch Talent for Troubleshooting.
Golly gee, six munths ago i cuddent evn spel enjinner, now i are one. Tony, I think someone wrote this for you, "Did you run out of your meds?? You really are nitpicking now." Please see below, JaMi - Original Message - From: "Tony Karavidas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'Protel EDA Forum'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 12:43 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Top Notch Talent for Troubleshooting. > Jami, you really are becoming quite offensive and at the same time > showing your ignorance. I looked at what you viewed and you're obviously > talking about Denzil Crasta. > Tony, Tony, Tony, Tony, please, please, please, please, just relax . . . My mere existance offends some people, but beyond that, I do not mean to be offensive, or more particularly, I specifically do not mean to offend anyone, and I apologize if I have. But please take a step back and try and put things into perspective. It is not a question about a particular individual or individuals and whether or not he is a nice guy or they are nice people. It is a question about one EDA Product which we all use and another EDA Product that we are all being "sold" in one way or another, and the problems with those two EDA Products and whether or not the company behind those products really knows what they are doing, from many different perspectives. From an EDA Software perspective. From a Technical perspective. From an Electrical Engineering perspective. From a Programming perspective, and most importantly, from a Printed Circuit Board Design perspective. Let's look at Altium and Protel 99 SE and Protel DXP for just a moment. If you look back in this forum over the last year at the "endearment thermometer" on Altium, and problems with Protel 99 SE , and the failure to deliver Protel DXP anywhere near on schedule, to monumental problems and design blunders when it first arrived, to the point where things appear to be possibly turning around and looking up, that thermometer fluctuates all over the place. I mean it has been Hot and Cold and Hot and Cold and Hot and Cold all over again all over the map. Please remember that just one month ago this very day, the whole Protel user community had revolted and was up in arms to the point that Altium was forced to abandon ATS and apologize to the Protel customer base. How soon we forget. Some of the primary questions in the forums in tha past year have dealt specifically with whether or not Altium was technically compent enough to deliver on DXP and now that it is here, whether or not they can fix the beast and make an honest product out of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I know, they are making real good progress in the past few weeks, and this latest service pack is really great, and blah, blah, blah, blah . . . I mean one day they can't write software and the next day they are the greatest. I mean look at the archive, look at your own posts. I mean I am not the only guy out here pointing out problems by a long shot. One day people are happy with Altium, and the next day they are not. How soon you guys forget the problems of last week, or last month, and are so easily placated and pacified like a puppy when they throw you a bone or two or some little scrap. This forum is a very moody bunch of people, but I would also say very malleable, in that it doesn't take very much to make you forget the problems of yesterday and make you a happy and faithful Altium supporter again. Ever since I called Altium in San Diego as a brand new customer, on a new brand new seat of Protel 99 SE less than a week old, with a system that crashed continually, and was told in essence to "go pound sand" by someone who I am sure is a very very nice person once you get past the fact that they were totally incompetent technically, and should not have been allowed to try and answer technical questions (a problem which Altium has since remedied), I have always had the question in the back of my mind of whether or not all the people at Altium are really qualified to do what they do, from a technical perspective, and also from the perspective of Engineering Design. Please note that there are some very good and very qualified Technical Support people at Altium, and I have dealt with some of them, but unfortunately, I do not believe that that level of competance and qualification is universal. Please note that this thread was started by me when I saw an employment ad a week or so ago for Technical Consultants at Altium in San Diego, and needless to say it hit a nerve, and yes I did post it here in a sarcastic sense, making an issue of the total lack of any real qualifications required for the position in terms of knowledge of Engineering Design Practice, or EDA Software Applications Experience, or even knowledge of Electronics in general. I mean duh! What's a Printed Circuit Board? What's a Schematic? I mean forgive me for being sarcastic, truely, I am sorry, but I need to be able to talk to someone in Tech
[PEDA] Flipping PCB design (DXP)
Hi all, Further to the discussion on flipping PCBs or parts of PCB designs from one side of the board to the other. At the time, I made a comment that this works in DXP - at the time some DXP users may have wondered what planet I was on. It seems it is one of the later fixes in the DXP service pack (now released). I have still seen nothing that suggests that JaMi's revised technique does *not* work OK under P99SE - to make this clearer I think JaMi's revised technique *does* successfully flip a PCB selection (including components) in P99SE. Sorry for any confusion, Ian Wilson * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Top Notch Talent for Troubleshooting.
The previous edition of this post was incomplete - sorry about that, I tried to save it so I wouldnt loose it and sent it by mistake - it's Wednesday. js * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Golly gee, six munths ago i cuddent evn spel enjinner, now i are one. Tony, I think someone wrote this for you, "Did you run out of your meds?? You really are nitpicking now." Please see below, JaMi - Original Message - From: "Tony Karavidas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'Protel EDA Forum'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 12:43 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Top Notch Talent for Troubleshooting. > Jami, you really are becoming quite offensive and at the same time > showing your ignorance. I looked at what you viewed and you're obviously > talking about Denzil Crasta. > Tony, Tony, Tony, Tony, please, please, please, please, just relax . . . My mere existance offends some people, but beyond that, I do not mean to be offensive, or more particularly, I specifically do not mean to offend anyone, and I apologize if I have. But please take a step back and try and put things into perspective. It is not a question about a particular individual or individuals and whether or not he is a nice guy or they are nice people. It is a question about one EDA Product which we all use and another EDA Product that we are all being "sold" in one way or another, and the problems with those two EDA Products and whether or not the company behind those products really knows what they are doing, from many different perspectives. From an EDA Software perspective. From a Technical perspective. From an Electrical Engineering perspective. From a Programming perspective, and most importantly, from a Printed Circuit Board Design perspective. Let's look at Altium and Protel 99 SE and Protel DXP for just a moment. If you look back in this forum over the last year at the "endearment thermometer" on Altium, and problems with Protel 99 SE , and the failure to deliver Protel DXP anywhere near on schedule, to monumental problems and design blunders when it first arrived, to the point where things appear to be possibly turning around and looking up, that thermometer fluctuates all over the place. I mean it has been Hot and Cold and Hot and Cold and Hot and Cold all over again all over the map. Please remember that just one month ago this very day, the whole Protel user community had revolted and was up in arms to the point that Altium was forced to abandon ATS and apologize to the Protel customer base. How soon we forget. Some of the primary questions in the forums in the past year have dealt specifically with whether or not Altium was technically compent enough to deliver on DXP and now that it is here, whether or not they can fix the beast and make an honest product out of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I know, they are making real good progress in the past few weeks, and this latest service pack is really great, and blah, blah, blah, blah . . . I mean one day they can't write software and the next day they are the greatest. I mean look at the archive, look at your own posts. I mean I am not the only guy out here pointing out problems by a long shot. One day people are happy with Altium, and the next day they are not. How soon you guys forget the problems of last week, or last month, and are so easily placated and pacified like a puppy when they throw you a bone or two or some little scrap. This forum is a very moody bunch of people, but I would also say very malleable, in that it doesn't take very much to make you forget the problems of yesterday and make you a happy and faithful Altium supporter again. Ever since I called Altium in San Diego as a brand new customer, on a new brand new seat of Protel 99 SE less than a week old, with a system that crashed continually, and was told in essence to "go pound sand" by someone who I am sure is a very very nice person once you get past the fact that they were totally incompetent technically, and should not have been allowed to try and answer technical questions (a problem which Altium has since remedied), I have always had the question in the back of my mind of whether or not all the people at Altium are really qualified to do what they do, from a technical perspective, and also from the perspective of Engineering Design. Please note that there are some very good and very qualified Technical Support people at Altium, and I have dealt with some of them, but unfortunately, I do not believe that that level of competence and qualification is universal. Please note that this thread was started by me when I saw an employment ad a week or so ago for Technical Consultants at Altium in San Diego, and needless to say it hit a nerve, and yes I did post it here in a sarcastic sense, making an issue of the total lack of any real qualifications required for the position in terms of knowledge of Engineering Design Practice, or EDA Software Applications Experience, or even knowledge of E
Re: [PEDA] Flipping PCB design (DXP)
Ian, I do plan on writing the final procedure up as you suggested, and I will submit it to you before posting it JaMi - Original Message - From: "Ian Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Protel EDA Forum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 6:11 PM Subject: [PEDA] Flipping PCB design (DXP) ~ ~ ~ > I have still seen nothing that suggests that JaMi's revised technique does > *not* work OK under P99SE - to make this clearer I think JaMi's revised > technique *does* successfully flip a PCB selection (including components) > in P99SE. > ~ ~ ~ * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Top Notch Talent for Troubleshooting.
> From: JaMi Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > I mean forgive me for being sarcastic, truely, I am sorry, > but I need to be > able to talk to someone in Tech Support who can understand my > questions, and > can understand Electronic Design, and can understand what I > am using Protel > for and what I am trying to do with it, so that he can > understand why the > problem is a problem, and more importantly he can understand > what needs to > be done to fix the problem. > Why? Technical support is about technical support If you ring up Microsoft tech support, for help with Word XP crashing, do you expect the helpdesk potplant to be a writer? I don't think so. Technical support is *just* that. there are issues with their software, people call up with a problem and a helpdesk potplant works out if it matches any of their known list of problems. If it does, they read out the solution step by step to you. If it doesn't they escalate the problem to someone who is more technical. If you want help with your design, or even your Protel methodology I'd be happy to assist you, but I'll charge what my knowledge is worth. > That is not to say that there is no one at Altium that has > this type of > experience, but is does raise the question of whether or not there are > enough people at Altium with this type of experience. "People" at altium have beeen writing CAD software for what, 15 years now? They have been providing valuable (and generally usable) tools to the engineering community, and I imagine that as a result, some people at Altium have a lot of knowlege about what makes good CAD software. Just because the actual programmer hasn't been routing PC motherboards for the last ten years doesn't mean they can't write program modules to spec. In fact if they had been laying out motherboards all the time, maybe that would be a problem because their windows programming skills might not be so great. > For years and years and years, virtually everyone in our > industry (and I am > sure that includes almost everyone in this forum), has been > complaining that > all of the software is written by people who do not know the > first thing > about Electronics or Electronic Design. This is a recognized > industry wide > problem, and it didn't begin with me. > you seem to be talking about something else Protel is a tool. Every tool is designed for a way of working, and like it or not, you CAN use protel very effectively. I find its user interface is reasonably intuative and I find that I can work in a way that suits protel. Why should Protel conform 100% to how you want to work? Its pretty flexible as is, and everyone will want to use it differently. So of course people will complain when it doesnt do 100% of what they want to do the way they want to do it... I think the problem is thay make the software flexible at all. It doesnt need to be, but it makes people expect more. Julian * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Top Notch Talent for Troubleshooting.
> -Original Message- > From: JaMi Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 7:57 PM > To: Protel EDA Forum > Cc: JaMi Smith > Subject: Re: [PEDA] Top Notch Talent for Troubleshooting. > > > The previous edition of this post was incomplete - sorry > about that, I tried to save it so I wouldnt loose it and sent > it by mistake - it's Wednesday. js > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * > Golly gee, six munths ago i cuddent evn spel enjinner, now i are one. > > Tony, > > I think someone wrote this for you, "Did you run out of your > meds?? You really are nitpicking now." > > Please see below, > > JaMi > > - Original Message - > From: "Tony Karavidas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "'Protel EDA Forum'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 12:43 PM > Subject: Re: [PEDA] Top Notch Talent for Troubleshooting. > > > > Jami, you really are becoming quite offensive and at the same time > > showing your ignorance. I looked at what you viewed and you're > > obviously talking about Denzil Crasta. > > > > Tony, Tony, Tony, Tony, please, please, please, please, just > relax . . . I am relaxed. (Except for this pain in my shoulder) > My mere existance offends some people, but beyond that, I do > not mean to be offensive, or more particularly, I > specifically do not mean to offend anyone, and I apologize if I have. > > But please take a step back and try and put things into perspective. > > It is not a question about a particular individual or > individuals and whether or not he is a nice guy or they are > nice people. It is a question about one EDA Product which we > all use and another EDA Product that we are all being "sold" > in one way or another, and the problems with those two EDA > Products and whether or not the company behind those products > really knows what they are doing, from many different > perspectives. From an EDA Software perspective. From a > Technical perspective. From an Electrical Engineering > perspective. From a Programming perspective, and most > importantly, from a Printed Circuit Board Design perspective. > > Let's look at Altium and Protel 99 SE and Protel DXP for just > a moment. If you look back in this forum over the last year > at the "endearment thermometer" on Altium, and problems with > Protel 99 SE , and the failure to deliver Protel DXP anywhere > near on schedule, to monumental problems and design blunders > when it first arrived, to the point where things appear to be > possibly turning around and looking up, that thermometer > fluctuates all over the place. I mean it has been Hot and > Cold and Hot and Cold and Hot and Cold all over again all > over the map. > > Please remember that just one month ago this very day, the > whole Protel user community had revolted and was up in arms > to the point that Altium was forced to abandon ATS and > apologize to the Protel customer base. How soon we forget. Who forgot? Not me. I'm glad they dropped ATS. Thanks for leading the battle Jami. > Some of the primary questions in the forums in the past year > have dealt specifically with whether or not Altium was > technically compent enough to deliver on DXP and now that it > is here, whether or not they can fix the beast and make an > honest product out of it. > > Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I know, they are making real good > progress in the past few weeks, and this latest service pack > is really great, and blah, blah, blah, blah . . . > > I mean one day they can't write software and the next day > they are the greatest. Who says "one day they can't write software and the next day they are the greatest"? We are just complaining about bugs (as we should) and presenting scenarios to Altium so they can fix the problems. > I mean look at the archive, look at your own posts. I mean I > am not the only guy out here pointing out problems by a long > shot. One day people are happy with Altium, and the next day > they are not. I think you have been the largest emotional rollercoaster on this list. Most people just document their complaints, but you get really nuts sometimes. Don't deny it! ;) > How soon you guys forget the problems of last week, or last > month, and are so easily placated and pacified like a puppy > when they throw you a bone or two or some little scrap. This > forum is a very moody bunch of people, but I would also say > very malleable, in that it doesn't take very much to make you > forget the problems of yesterday and make you a happy and > faithful Altium supporter again. > > Ever since I called Altium in San Diego as a brand new > customer, on a new brand new seat of Protel 99 SE less than a > week old, with a system that crashed continually, and was > told in essence to "go pound sand" by someone who I am sure > is a very very nice person once you get past the fact that > they were totally incompetent technically, and should not >
