Re: Schema.org in RDF ...

[Patrick Logan]

Would it be reasonable to use  http://schema.rdfs.org rather than
http://schema.org in the URIs? Essentially mirror what one might hope
for schema.org to become. Then if it does become that, link the two
together?


On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 1:22 AM, Michael Hausenblas
 wrote:
>> Something I don't understand. If I read well all savvy discussions so far,
>> publishers behind http://schema.org URIs are unlikely to ever provide any
>> RDF description,
>
> What makes you so sure about that not one day in the (near?) future the
> Schema.org URIs will serve RDF or JSON, FWIW, additionally to HTML? ;)
>
> Cheers,
>        Michael
> --
> Dr. Michael Hausenblas, Research Fellow
> LiDRC - Linked Data Research Centre
> DERI - Digital Enterprise Research Institute
> NUIG - National University of Ireland, Galway
> Ireland, Europe
> Tel. +353 91 495730
> http://linkeddata.deri.ie/
> http://sw-app.org/about.html
>
> On 7 Jun 2011, at 08:44, Bernard Vatant wrote:
>
>> Hi all
>>
>> Something I don't understand. If I read well all savvy discussions so far,
>> publishers behind http://schema.org URIs are unlikely to ever provide any
>> RDF description, so why are those URIs declared as identifiers of RDFS
>> classes in the http://schema.rdfs.org/all.rdf. For all I can see,
>> http://schema.org/Person is the URI of an information resource, not of a
>> class.
>> So I would rather have expected mirroring of the schema.org URIs by
>> schema.rdfs.org URIs, the later fully dereferencable proper RDFS classes
>> expliciting the semantics of the former, while keeping the reference to the
>> source in some dcterms:source element.
>>
>> Example, instead of ...
>>
>> http://schema.org/Person";>
>> http://www.w3.org/2000/01/rdf-schema#Class"/>
>> Person
>> A person (alive, dead, undead, or
>> fictional).
>> http://schema.org/Thing"/>
>> http://schema.org/Person"/>
>> 
>>
>> where I see a clear abuse of rdfs:isDefinedBy, since if you dereference
>> the said URI, you don't find any explicit RDF definition ...
>>
>> I would rather have the following
>>
>> http://schema.rdfs.org/Person";>
>> http://www.w3.org/2000/01/rdf-schema#Class"/>
>> Person
>> A person (alive, dead, undead, or
>> fictional).
>> http://schema.rdfs.org/Thing"/>
>> http://schema.org/Person"/>
>> 
>>
>> To the latter declaration, one could safely add statements like
>>
>> schema.rdfs:Person rdfs:subClassOf  foaf:Person
>>
>> etc
>>
>> Or do I miss the point?
>>
>> Bernard
>>
>> 2011/6/3 Michael Hausenblas 
>>
>> http://schema.rdfs.org
>>
>> ... is now available - we're sorry for the delay ;)
>>
>> Cheers,
>>       Michael
>> --
>> Dr. Michael Hausenblas, Research Fellow
>> LiDRC - Linked Data Research Centre
>> DERI - Digital Enterprise Research Institute
>> NUIG - National University of Ireland, Galway
>> Ireland, Europe
>> Tel. +353 91 495730
>> http://linkeddata.deri.ie/
>> http://sw-app.org/about.html
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Bernard Vatant
>> Senior Consultant
>> Vocabulary & Data Integration
>> Tel:       +33 (0) 971 488 459
>> Mail:     bernard.vat...@mondeca.com
>> 
>> Mondeca
>> 3, cité Nollez 75018 Paris France
>> Web:    http://www.mondeca.com
>> Blog:    http://mondeca.wordpress.com
>> 
>
>
>

Re: Common RDF Vocabulary Labels Vocabulary

[Elena Montiel Ponsoda]

Dear Dave,

The voccabulary you propose to manage ontology labels could be 
understood as paraphrases or possible ways of linguistically expressing 
concepts/relations according to the cardinality of domain and range. 
Ideally, this should be automatically derived from the local 
names/rdfs:labels contained in ontologies describing concepts and 
relations. It demands a great effort to manually create such additional 
labels for each new ontology element.


In this line we find the work carried out in the European project Monnet 
[1], in which starting from an ontology in which linguistic descriptions 
are expressed as rdfs, skos or, by default, as local names, labels are 
extracted and can be futher enhanced with lexico-syntactic and 
morphological information. This can be done automatically with the lemon 
editor [2], just released and still work in process. The resulting 
information is stored in an external model called lemon [3]. The 
approach followed by lemon clearly separates semantics (captured in the 
ontology) from linguistic information (captured in external lemon 
model). It also allows to associate as many lemon lexicons in different 
languages as wished to the same ontology, thus accounting for 
multilingualism.


The lemon model is a more principled way of extending the linguistic 
descriptions associated to ontologies or linked data vocabularies. SKOS 
made an initial attempt in this sense when proposing SKOS-XL, but this 
is limited to terminological description (which on the other hand can 
suffice for certain applications).


In the specific example you mentioned, the lemon model would represent 
the relation "has close match", understand the frame or syntactical 
structure represented by this relation, and be able to derive variants 
of this relation according to gender and number of domain and range, for 
example.


Should you be interested in this model, we could provide you some 
examples based on your use case/s.


[1] http://www.monnet-project.eu
[2] lemon editor/generator, "lemon source", available from 
http://lexinfo.net/
[3] lemon model: the code is available at 
(http://greententacle.techfak.uni-bielefeld.de/drupal/sites/default/files/ontologies/lemon.owl


Elena

--
Elena Montiel-Ponsoda
Ontology Engineering Group (OEG)
Departamento de Inteligencia Artificial
Facultad de Informática
Campus de Montegancedo s/n
Boadilla del Monte-28660 Madrid, España
www.oeg-upm.net
Tel. (+34) 91 336 36 70
Fax  (+34) 91 352 48 19



El 06/06/2011 16:59, Daniel Schwabe escribió:

Dear all,
I'm glad this discussion has started . To me it points in the same direction I 
already mentioned in another thread, the need for an entirely separate 
vocabulary to talk about *presentation* aspects of RDF content.
For example, a natural (at least in my view) extension to this proposed vocabulary, besides the 
ones Hugh is pointing to, could be to add a "media type dimension", so one could have 
alternative presentations depending on the "media" (vocal is an obvious one, but not the 
only).

Cheers
D

On Jun 6, 2011, at 09:54  - 06/06/11, Hugh Glaser wrote:


That's a great resource building up.
Well done starting it.

We do need to think a little about the sociology of this, I'm afraid.
You say "where they were not provided by their vocabulary's author".
But (first example I looked at) http://www.w3.org/TR/skos-reference/skos.html 
has
  
has close match
so labels are already there (skos:prefLabel is a sub-property of rdfs:label).
Actually, you have something different:
skos:closeMatch skos:prefLabel "close match" ;

So what is the ecosystem here?
Is it your baby that you play with when the kids are busy? :-)
Is this an independent, community, activity?
If so, should agreed stuff be reflected back into the ontologies?
Is it a harvesting and aggregation activity?

Sorry if this sounds negative - it isn't.
Not having labels like this has been the bane of my life on RKBExplorer for 
many years.
I have 1000 hand-written lines of fresnel RDF, with things like:
# Web address format
:webAddressFmt af:Format ;
f:group :aktGroup ;
f:propertyFormatDomain 
akt:has-web-address ;
f:propertyFormatDomain swrc:url ;
f:propertyFormatDomain akt:has-URL ;
f:propertyFormatDomain foaf:page ;
f:propertyFormatDomain foaf:homepage ;
f:propertyFormatDomain jisc:homepage ;
f:propertyFormatDomain dc:relation ;
f:value f:externalLink ;
f:label "Web Address:"^^xsd:string .
so I feel the pain that must have prompted you to do this!
In fact, I used to hope that people would publish fresnel lens with their 
ontologies.
In fact adding 

Indian-summer school on Linked Data (ISSLOD 2011)

[Sören Auer]

  *Indian-Summer School on Linked Data*
Leipzig, Sep 12-18, 2011
 http://lod2.eu/ISSLOD

ISSLOD takes place in late summer with hopefully still a lot of Indian
Summer (i.e. Altweibersommer / Бабье лето) sunshine rays.

The Linked Data methodology is a light-weight approach to facilitate the
transition from the document Web to the Web of Data and ultimately a
Semantic Web. With a wide availability of Linked Data tools and
knowledge bases, a steadily growing R&D community, industrial
applications, the Linked Data paradigm already became crucial building
block of the Web architecture.

ISSLOD is primarily intended for postgraduate (PhD or MSc) students,
postdocs, and other young researchers investigating aspects related to
the Semantic Data Web. The Summer School will also be open to senior
researchers wishing to learn about Semantic Web issues related to their
own fields of research.

For further details please visit: http://lod2.eu/ISSLOD/

ISSLOD is organized by the EU-FP7 project "LOD2 - Creating Knowledge out
of Interlinked Data". Lecturers comprise distinguished experts from LOD2
member organizations as well as invited speakers, the majority of which
will - apart from their lectures - also be present for the duration of
the school to interact with students. Interaction with senior
researchers and establishing contacts within young researchers is a main
focus of the school, which will be supported through social activities
and an interactive, amicable atmosphere.

   ISSLOD Application Deadline: 30 July 2011
   Notifications:5 August 2011
   ISSLOD:   12-18 September 2011

There will be a limited number of student grants available. Details of
the registration process will be announced on the Web site, after the
application deadline. We will keep the registration fee low (175 EUR)
and provide reasonable accomodation packages (less than 40 EUR per
night) for students.

Re: Schema.org in RDF ...

[Kingsley Idehen]

On 6/7/11 11:37 AM, Kingsley Idehen wrote:

On 6/7/11 11:26 AM, Bernard Vatant wrote:

Kingsley, you lost me once again :(

From the URI you provide I follow my nose to 
http://uriburner.com/describe/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fschema.org%2FPerson%23this


Which as it says provides a description of the resource identified by 
http://schema.org/Person#this, including the following triple :


  rdf:type 



AFAIK, http://schema.org/Person#this is no more declared as an RDFS 
class than http://schema.org/Person. Actually since 
 is currently an information resource per 
its answer to http GET, I wonder what http://schema.org/Person#this 
actually identifies, since there is no actual #this anchor in the page.


In anticipation of RDFa or Microdata based resource, we use a # 
terminated URI. Remember, we don't control the domains hosting these 
data sets, so we simply adopted # terminated URIs based Names to 
distinguish from Address of the actual Data (Resource) via usual 
Linked Data patterns (where Names deliver de-reference / indirection 
function and Addresses deliver address-of).





Tweaking a new URI to explicit the semantics of 
http://schema.org/Person is OK, but this new URI has to be in a 
namespace you control etc.


Yes, as per my comments above.

I once made a comment about an owl:shameAs pattern whereby you make 
pure Linked Data in one data space that includes owl:sameAs relations 
where the Object is really a suggestion/hint URI to the 3rd party data 
space.


First step is to start the conversation, it might so happen that 
http://schema.org/Person#this will resolve to a Microdata resource, in 
due course. If it doesn't, we'll pull the trigger on owl:shameAs :-)



Kingsley


Bernard,

To be a little clearer, when dealing with the TBox we use 
owl:equivalentClass and owl:equivalentProperty to execute the 
owl:shameAs pattern I described in the post above. Again, we 
deliberately opted to go slow on this time around so that more folks 
understand what's actually happening here. Ultimately, this is about 
showcasing how expansive one can be with Linked Data without forcing 
others to operate on your terms or at your speed. Its all about loose 
coupling etc..


--

Regards,

Kingsley Idehen 
President&  CEO
OpenLink Software
Web: http://www.openlinksw.com
Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
Twitter/Identi.ca: kidehen

Re: Schema.org in RDF ...

[Kingsley Idehen]

On 6/7/11 11:26 AM, Bernard Vatant wrote:

Kingsley, you lost me once again :(

From the URI you provide I follow my nose to 
http://uriburner.com/describe/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fschema.org%2FPerson%23this


Which as it says provides a description of the resource identified by 
http://schema.org/Person#this, including the following triple :


  rdf:type 



AFAIK, http://schema.org/Person#this is no more declared as an RDFS 
class than http://schema.org/Person. Actually since 
 is currently an information resource per 
its answer to http GET, I wonder what http://schema.org/Person#this 
actually identifies, since there is no actual #this anchor in the page.


In anticipation of RDFa or Microdata based resource, we use a # 
terminated URI. Remember, we don't control the domains hosting these 
data sets, so we simply adopted # terminated URIs based Names to 
distinguish from Address of the actual Data (Resource) via usual Linked 
Data patterns (where Names deliver de-reference / indirection function 
and Addresses deliver address-of).





Tweaking a new URI to explicit the semantics of 
http://schema.org/Person is OK, but this new URI has to be in a 
namespace you control etc.


Yes, as per my comments above.

I once made a comment about an owl:shameAs pattern whereby you make pure 
Linked Data in one data space that includes owl:sameAs relations where 
the Object is really a suggestion/hint URI to the 3rd party data space.


First step is to start the conversation, it might so happen that 
http://schema.org/Person#this will resolve to a Microdata resource, in 
due course. If it doesn't, we'll pull the trigger on owl:shameAs :-)



Kingsley


Bernard



2011/6/7 Kingsley Idehen >



Here is an example of an updated tweak [1] of what we did with
Google's initial foray into this realm combined with recent
developments at: schema.rdfs.org .

Note, anyone can yank out this data, tweak, and then share
(ideally via Web in pure Linked Data form). I'll be sending an
archive to Micheal and Co. post hitting send button re. this mail.

Links:

1.

http://uriburner.com/describe/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fschema.rdfs.org%2Fall&p=2&lp=4&first=&op=0&gp=2






--

Regards,

Kingsley Idehen 
President&  CEO
OpenLink Software
Web: http://www.openlinksw.com
Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
Twitter/Identi.ca: kidehen

Re: Schema.org in RDF ...

[Bernard Vatant]

Kingsley, you lost me once again :(

>From the URI you provide I follow my nose to
http://uriburner.com/describe/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fschema.org%2FPerson%23this

Which as it says provides a description of the resource identified by
http://schema.org/Person#this, including the following triple :

  rdf:type  <
http://www.w3.org/2000/01/rdf-schema#Class>

AFAIK, http://schema.org/Person#this is no more declared as an RDFS class
than http://schema.org/Person. Actually since  is
currently an information resource per its answer to http GET, I wonder what
http://schema.org/Person#this actually identifies, since there is no actual
#this anchor in the page.

Tweaking a new URI to explicit the semantics of http://schema.org/Person is
OK, but this new URI has to be in a namespace you control etc.

Bernard



2011/6/7 Kingsley Idehen 

>
> Here is an example of an updated tweak [1] of what we did with Google's
> initial foray into this realm combined with recent developments at:
> schema.rdfs.org.
>
> Note, anyone can yank out this data, tweak, and then share (ideally via Web
> in pure Linked Data form). I'll be sending an archive to Micheal and Co.
> post hitting send button re. this mail.
>
> Links:
>
> 1.
> http://uriburner.com/describe/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fschema.rdfs.org%2Fall&p=2&lp=4&first=&op=0&gp=2
>
>

Re: Schema.org in RDF ...

[Kingsley Idehen]

On 6/7/11 8:44 AM, Bernard Vatant wrote:

Hi all

Something I don't understand. If I read well all savvy discussions so 
far, publishers behind http://schema.org URIs are unlikely to ever 
provide any RDF description, so why are those URIs declared as 
identifiers of RDFS classes in the http://schema.rdfs.org/all.rdf. For 
all I can see, http://schema.org/Person is the URI of an information 
resource, not of a class.
So I would rather have expected mirroring of the schema.org 
 URIs by schema.rdfs.org  
URIs, the later fully dereferencable proper RDFS classes expliciting 
the semantics of the former, while keeping the reference to the source 
in some dcterms:source element.


Example, instead of ...

http://schema.org/Person";>
http://www.w3.org/2000/01/rdf-schema#Class"/>
Person
A person (alive, dead, undead, or 
fictional).

http://schema.org/Thing"/>
http://schema.org/Person"/>


where I see a clear abuse of rdfs:isDefinedBy, since if you 
dereference the said URI, you don't find any explicit RDF definition ...


I would rather have the following

http://schema.rdfs.org/Person";>
http://www.w3.org/2000/01/rdf-schema#Class"/>
Person
A person (alive, dead, undead, or 
fictional).

http://schema.rdfs.org/Thing"/>
http://schema.org/Person"/>


To the latter declaration, one could safely add statements like

schema.rdfs:Person rdfs:subClassOf  foaf:Person

etc

Or do I miss the point?


You didn't miss anything :-)

Here is an example of an updated tweak [1] of what we did with Google's 
initial foray into this realm combined with recent developments at: 
schema.rdfs.org.


Note, anyone can yank out this data, tweak, and then share (ideally via 
Web in pure Linked Data form). I'll be sending an archive to Micheal and 
Co. post hitting send button re. this mail.


Links:

1. 
http://uriburner.com/describe/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fschema.rdfs.org%2Fall&p=2&lp=4&first=&op=0&gp=2



Kingsley


Bernard

2011/6/3 Michael Hausenblas >



http://schema.rdfs.org

... is now available - we're sorry for the delay ;)

Cheers,
   Michael
--
Dr. Michael Hausenblas, Research Fellow
LiDRC - Linked Data Research Centre
DERI - Digital Enterprise Research Institute
NUIG - National University of Ireland, Galway
Ireland, Europe
Tel. +353 91 495730
http://linkeddata.deri.ie/
http://sw-app.org/about.html





--
Bernard Vatant
Senior Consultant
Vocabulary & Data Integration
Tel:   +33 (0) 971 488 459
Mail: bernard.vat...@mondeca.com 

Mondeca
3, cité Nollez 75018 Paris France
Web: http://www.mondeca.com
Blog: http://mondeca.wordpress.com




--

Regards,

Kingsley Idehen 
President&  CEO
OpenLink Software
Web: http://www.openlinksw.com
Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
Twitter/Identi.ca: kidehen

Re: iCloud and RDF

[Kingsley Idehen]

On 6/7/11 6:10 AM, Daniel Schwabe wrote:

In today's iCloud announcement, Apple mentioned that it will offer key-value 
storage, and access through an iCloud API. I wonder how RDF will fit into 
this...
Any ideas/info? Has anybody looked at the API?


Daniel,


Once the API is released, like other APIs, its good fodder for 
transformation into Linked Data and/or Addresses for RESTful interaction 
patterns. Many years ago the SIOC ontology was enhanced in anticipation 
of these kinds API oriented developments :-)


As you can see, a long time ago it was RDBMS vendors and their APIs that 
drove data access realm. We now have lots of alternative data source 
types with Linked Data providing a powerful mechanism for virtualization 
across heterogeneous data sources.


Putting distracting syntax battles aside, Linked Data is delivering an 
alternative (and more powerful route) to a long sought destination re. 
ability to construct network oriented linked data structures that 
provide the critical underpinnings for InterWeb scale distributed data 
objects.


As folks start to see that RDF neither primogenitor nor sole option re. 
Linked Data, the real evolution of the Web into a Global Data Space will 
be much clearer and easier for everyone to appreciate and actually embrace.


Kingsley

Cheers
D
---


Daniel Schwabe  Dept. de Informatica, PUC-Rio
Tel:+55-21-3527 1500 r. 4356R. M. de S. Vicente, 225
Fax: +55-21-3527 1530   Rio de Janeiro, RJ 22453-900, Brasil
http://www.inf.puc-rio.br/~dschwabe









--

Regards,

Kingsley Idehen 
President&  CEO
OpenLink Software
Web: http://www.openlinksw.com
Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
Twitter/Identi.ca: kidehen

Re: Schema.org in RDF ...

[Christopher Gutteridge]

If I've understood correctly http://schema.org/Person does not in any 
way equal or equiv to foaf:person


Surely:
?foo a  .

is actually saying

?foo foaf:primary_topic ?person .
?person a foaf:Person .

I've said before that there's value in predicates which relate the 
primary topic of X to the primary topic of Y, as that's what people want 
to do in RDFa. When converting into more reasonable (pun intended) 
predicates, this level of indirection should be recognised.


foaf:interest already as a domain which is the page, not the URI itself. 
http://xmlns.com/foaf/spec/#term_interest -- I'm not keen on mixing them 
in one scheme -- it'll confuse people, but let people relate things 
together using their URLs and make the semantics describe that honestly.




Bernard Vatant wrote:

Hi Michael

I just repeated what some people-who-know-better around assumed  ...
For myself I'm sure of nothing, in particular regarding the future :)
And that's exactly why seems to me that assertions published today 
should not preempt (possible) semantics of tomorrow, but rely on 
semantics as they stand : http://schema.org/Person is an information 
resource, not a rdfs:Class.


In the solution I propose, whenever the event you expect happens, just 
add owl:equivalentClass and owl:equivalentProperty to your descriptions.
If it does not happen as you wish, nothing is broken. If people at 
schema.org  change their mind and throw away 
everything, you get rid of the dcterms:source and your descriptions 
stay alive and backward compatible for people in the RDF world. Et voilà.


Bernard

2011/6/7 Michael Hausenblas >


Something I don't understand. If I read well all savvy
discussions so far, publishers behind http://schema.org URIs
are unlikely to ever provide any RDF description,


What makes you so sure about that not one day in the (near?)
future the Schema.org URIs will serve RDF or JSON, FWIW,
additionally to HTML? ;)


Cheers,
   Michael
--
Dr. Michael Hausenblas, Research Fellow
LiDRC - Linked Data Research Centre
DERI - Digital Enterprise Research Institute
NUIG - National University of Ireland, Galway
Ireland, Europe
Tel. +353 91 495730
http://linkeddata.deri.ie/
http://sw-app.org/about.html

On 7 Jun 2011, at 08:44, Bernard Vatant wrote:

Hi all

Something I don't understand. If I read well all savvy
discussions so far, publishers behind http://schema.org URIs
are unlikely to ever provide any RDF description, so why are
those URIs declared as identifiers of RDFS classes in the
http://schema.rdfs.org/all.rdf. For all I can see,
http://schema.org/Person is the URI of an information
resource, not of a class.
So I would rather have expected mirroring of the schema.org
 URIs by schema.rdfs.org
 URIs, the later fully dereferencable
proper RDFS classes expliciting the semantics of the former,
while keeping the reference to the source in some
dcterms:source element.

Example, instead of ...

http://schema.org/Person";>
http://www.w3.org/2000/01/rdf-schema#Class"/>
Person
A person (alive, dead, undead, or
fictional).
http://schema.org/Thing"/>
http://schema.org/Person"/>


where I see a clear abuse of rdfs:isDefinedBy, since if you
dereference the said URI, you don't find any explicit RDF
definition ...

I would rather have the following

http://schema.rdfs.org/Person";>
http://www.w3.org/2000/01/rdf-schema#Class"/>
Person
A person (alive, dead, undead, or
fictional).
http://schema.rdfs.org/Thing"/>
http://schema.org/Person"/>


To the latter declaration, one could safely add statements like

schema.rdfs:Person rdfs:subClassOf  foaf:Person

etc

Or do I miss the point?

Bernard

2011/6/3 Michael Hausenblas mailto:michael.hausenb...@deri.org>>

http://schema.rdfs.org

... is now available - we're sorry for the delay ;)

Cheers,
  Michael
--
Dr. Michael Hausenblas, Research Fellow
LiDRC - Linked Data Research Centre
DERI - Digital Enterprise Research Institute
NUIG - National University of Ireland, Galway
Ireland, Europe
Tel. +353 91 495730
http://linkeddata.deri.ie/
http://sw-app.org/about.html





-- 
Bernard Vatant

Senior Consultant
Vocabulary & Data Integration
Tel:   +33 (0) 971 488 459
Mail: bernard.vat...@mondeca.com


M

Re: Schema.org in RDF ...

[Bernard Vatant]

Hi Michael

I just repeated what some people-who-know-better around assumed  ...
For myself I'm sure of nothing, in particular regarding the future :)
And that's exactly why seems to me that assertions published today should
not preempt (possible) semantics of tomorrow, but rely on semantics as they
stand : http://schema.org/Person is an information resource, not a
rdfs:Class.

In the solution I propose, whenever the event you expect happens, just add
owl:equivalentClass and owl:equivalentProperty to your descriptions.
If it does not happen as you wish, nothing is broken. If people at
schema.org change their mind and throw away everything, you get rid of the
dcterms:source and your descriptions stay alive and backward compatible for
people in the RDF world. Et voilà.

Bernard

2011/6/7 Michael Hausenblas 

> Something I don't understand. If I read well all savvy discussions so far,
>> publishers behind http://schema.org URIs are unlikely to ever provide any
>> RDF description,
>>
>
> What makes you so sure about that not one day in the (near?) future the
> Schema.org URIs will serve RDF or JSON, FWIW, additionally to HTML? ;)
>
>
> Cheers,
>Michael
> --
> Dr. Michael Hausenblas, Research Fellow
> LiDRC - Linked Data Research Centre
> DERI - Digital Enterprise Research Institute
> NUIG - National University of Ireland, Galway
> Ireland, Europe
> Tel. +353 91 495730
> http://linkeddata.deri.ie/
> http://sw-app.org/about.html
>
> On 7 Jun 2011, at 08:44, Bernard Vatant wrote:
>
>  Hi all
>>
>> Something I don't understand. If I read well all savvy discussions so far,
>> publishers behind http://schema.org URIs are unlikely to ever provide any
>> RDF description, so why are those URIs declared as identifiers of RDFS
>> classes in the http://schema.rdfs.org/all.rdf. For all I can see,
>> http://schema.org/Person is the URI of an information resource, not of a
>> class.
>> So I would rather have expected mirroring of the schema.org URIs by
>> schema.rdfs.org URIs, the later fully dereferencable proper RDFS classes
>> expliciting the semantics of the former, while keeping the reference to the
>> source in some dcterms:source element.
>>
>> Example, instead of ...
>>
>> http://schema.org/Person";>
>> http://www.w3.org/2000/01/rdf-schema#Class"/>
>> Person
>> A person (alive, dead, undead, or
>> fictional).
>> http://schema.org/Thing"/>
>> http://schema.org/Person"/>
>> 
>>
>> where I see a clear abuse of rdfs:isDefinedBy, since if you dereference
>> the said URI, you don't find any explicit RDF definition ...
>>
>> I would rather have the following
>>
>> http://schema.rdfs.org/Person";>
>> http://www.w3.org/2000/01/rdf-schema#Class"/>
>> Person
>> A person (alive, dead, undead, or
>> fictional).
>> http://schema.rdfs.org/Thing"/>
>> http://schema.org/Person"/>
>> 
>>
>> To the latter declaration, one could safely add statements like
>>
>> schema.rdfs:Person rdfs:subClassOf  foaf:Person
>>
>> etc
>>
>> Or do I miss the point?
>>
>> Bernard
>>
>> 2011/6/3 Michael Hausenblas 
>>
>> http://schema.rdfs.org
>>
>> ... is now available - we're sorry for the delay ;)
>>
>> Cheers,
>>   Michael
>> --
>> Dr. Michael Hausenblas, Research Fellow
>> LiDRC - Linked Data Research Centre
>> DERI - Digital Enterprise Research Institute
>> NUIG - National University of Ireland, Galway
>> Ireland, Europe
>> Tel. +353 91 495730
>> http://linkeddata.deri.ie/
>> http://sw-app.org/about.html
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Bernard Vatant
>> Senior Consultant
>> Vocabulary & Data Integration
>> Tel:   +33 (0) 971 488 459
>> Mail: bernard.vat...@mondeca.com
>> 
>> Mondeca
>> 3, cité Nollez 75018 Paris France
>> Web:http://www.mondeca.com
>> Blog:http://mondeca.wordpress.com
>> 
>>
>
>


-- 
Bernard Vatant
Senior Consultant
Vocabulary & Data Integration
Tel:   +33 (0) 971 488 459
Mail: bernard.vat...@mondeca.com

Mondeca
3, cité Nollez 75018 Paris France
Web:http://www.mondeca.com
Blog:http://mondeca.wordpress.com

Re: Schema.org in RDF ...

[Antoine Zimmermann]

Le 07/06/2011 10:22, Michael Hausenblas a écrit :

Something I don't understand. If I read well all savvy discussions so
far, publishers behind http://schema.org URIs are unlikely to ever
provide any RDF description,


What makes you so sure about that not one day in the (near?) future the
Schema.org URIs will serve RDF or JSON, FWIW, additionally to HTML? ;)


Sure and I'm tempted to believe that this will happen eventually.
Nonetheless, Bernard makes a good point: the URIs, such as 
http://schema.org/Thing, are information resources, as far as 
httpRange14 is concerned. If you guys from the Linked Data Research 
Centre are not following httpRange14 resolution, who will?


Anyway, schema.rdfs.org is very good initiative and an excellent answer 
to schema.org.



AZ.



Cheers,
Michael
--
Dr. Michael Hausenblas, Research Fellow
LiDRC - Linked Data Research Centre
DERI - Digital Enterprise Research Institute
NUIG - National University of Ireland, Galway
Ireland, Europe
Tel. +353 91 495730
http://linkeddata.deri.ie/
http://sw-app.org/about.html

On 7 Jun 2011, at 08:44, Bernard Vatant wrote:


Hi all

Something I don't understand. If I read well all savvy discussions so
far, publishers behind http://schema.org URIs are unlikely to ever
provide any RDF description, so why are those URIs declared as
identifiers of RDFS classes in the http://schema.rdfs.org/all.rdf. For
all I can see, http://schema.org/Person is the URI of an information
resource, not of a class.
So I would rather have expected mirroring of the schema.org URIs by
schema.rdfs.org URIs, the later fully dereferencable proper RDFS
classes expliciting the semantics of the former, while keeping the
reference to the source in some dcterms:source element.

Example, instead of ...

http://schema.org/Person";>
http://www.w3.org/2000/01/rdf-schema#Class"/>
Person
A person (alive, dead, undead, or
fictional).
http://schema.org/Thing"/>
http://schema.org/Person"/>


where I see a clear abuse of rdfs:isDefinedBy, since if you
dereference the said URI, you don't find any explicit RDF definition ...

I would rather have the following

http://schema.rdfs.org/Person";>
http://www.w3.org/2000/01/rdf-schema#Class"/>
Person
A person (alive, dead, undead, or
fictional).
http://schema.rdfs.org/Thing"/>
http://schema.org/Person"/>


To the latter declaration, one could safely add statements like

schema.rdfs:Person rdfs:subClassOf foaf:Person

etc

Or do I miss the point?

Bernard

2011/6/3 Michael Hausenblas 

http://schema.rdfs.org

... is now available - we're sorry for the delay ;)

Cheers,
Michael
--
Dr. Michael Hausenblas, Research Fellow
LiDRC - Linked Data Research Centre
DERI - Digital Enterprise Research Institute
NUIG - National University of Ireland, Galway
Ireland, Europe
Tel. +353 91 495730
http://linkeddata.deri.ie/
http://sw-app.org/about.html





--
Bernard Vatant
Senior Consultant
Vocabulary & Data Integration
Tel: +33 (0) 971 488 459
Mail: bernard.vat...@mondeca.com

Mondeca
3, cité Nollez 75018 Paris France
Web: http://www.mondeca.com
Blog: http://mondeca.wordpress.com







--
Antoine Zimmermann
Researcher at:
Laboratoire d'InfoRmatique en Image et Systèmes d'information
Database Group
7 Avenue Jean Capelle
69621 Villeurbanne Cedex
France
Tel: +33(0)4 72 43 61 74 - Fax: +33(0)4 72 43 87 13
Lecturer at:
Institut National des Sciences Appliquées de Lyon
20 Avenue Albert Einstein
69621 Villeurbanne Cedex
France
antoine.zimmerm...@insa-lyon.fr
http://zimmer.aprilfoolsreview.com/

Re: Schema.org in RDF ...

[Michael Hausenblas]

Something I don't understand. If I read well all savvy discussions  
so far, publishers behind http://schema.org URIs are unlikely to  
ever provide any RDF description,


What makes you so sure about that not one day in the (near?) future  
the Schema.org URIs will serve RDF or JSON, FWIW, additionally to  
HTML? ;)


Cheers,
Michael
--
Dr. Michael Hausenblas, Research Fellow
LiDRC - Linked Data Research Centre
DERI - Digital Enterprise Research Institute
NUIG - National University of Ireland, Galway
Ireland, Europe
Tel. +353 91 495730
http://linkeddata.deri.ie/
http://sw-app.org/about.html

On 7 Jun 2011, at 08:44, Bernard Vatant wrote:


Hi all

Something I don't understand. If I read well all savvy discussions  
so far, publishers behind http://schema.org URIs are unlikely to  
ever provide any RDF description, so why are those URIs declared as  
identifiers of RDFS classes in the http://schema.rdfs.org/all.rdf.  
For all I can see, http://schema.org/Person is the URI of an  
information resource, not of a class.
So I would rather have expected mirroring of the schema.org URIs by  
schema.rdfs.org URIs, the later fully dereferencable proper RDFS  
classes expliciting the semantics of the former, while keeping the  
reference to the source in some dcterms:source element.


Example, instead of ...

http://schema.org/Person";>
http://www.w3.org/2000/01/rdf-schema#Class"/>
Person
A person (alive, dead, undead, or  
fictional).

http://schema.org/Thing"/>
http://schema.org/Person"/>


where I see a clear abuse of rdfs:isDefinedBy, since if you  
dereference the said URI, you don't find any explicit RDF  
definition ...


I would rather have the following

http://schema.rdfs.org/Person";>
http://www.w3.org/2000/01/rdf-schema#Class"/>
Person
A person (alive, dead, undead, or  
fictional).

http://schema.rdfs.org/Thing"/>
http://schema.org/Person"/>


To the latter declaration, one could safely add statements like

schema.rdfs:Person rdfs:subClassOf  foaf:Person

etc

Or do I miss the point?

Bernard

2011/6/3 Michael Hausenblas 

http://schema.rdfs.org

... is now available - we're sorry for the delay ;)

Cheers,
   Michael
--
Dr. Michael Hausenblas, Research Fellow
LiDRC - Linked Data Research Centre
DERI - Digital Enterprise Research Institute
NUIG - National University of Ireland, Galway
Ireland, Europe
Tel. +353 91 495730
http://linkeddata.deri.ie/
http://sw-app.org/about.html





--
Bernard Vatant
Senior Consultant
Vocabulary & Data Integration
Tel:   +33 (0) 971 488 459
Mail: bernard.vat...@mondeca.com

Mondeca
3, cité Nollez 75018 Paris France
Web:http://www.mondeca.com
Blog:http://mondeca.wordpress.com

Re: Schema.org in RDF ...

[Bernard Vatant]

Hi all

Something I don't understand. If I read well all savvy discussions so far,
publishers behind http://schema.org URIs are unlikely to ever provide any
RDF description, so why are those URIs declared as identifiers of RDFS
classes in the http://schema.rdfs.org/all.rdf. For all I can see,
http://schema.org/Person is the URI of an information resource, not of a
class.
So I would rather have expected mirroring of the schema.org URIs by
schema.rdfs.org URIs, the later fully dereferencable proper RDFS classes
expliciting the semantics of the former, while keeping the reference to the
source in some dcterms:source element.

Example, instead of ...

http://schema.org/Person";>
http://www.w3.org/2000/01/rdf-schema#Class"/>
Person
A person (alive, dead, undead, or fictional).
http://schema.org/Thing"/>
http://schema.org/Person"/>


where I see a clear abuse of rdfs:isDefinedBy, since if you dereference the
said URI, you don't find any explicit RDF definition ...

I would rather have the following

http://schema.rdfs.org/Person";>
http://www.w3.org/2000/01/rdf-schema#Class"/>
Person
A person (alive, dead, undead, or fictional).
http://schema.rdfs.org/Thing"/>
http://schema.org/Person"/>


To the latter declaration, one could safely add statements like

schema.rdfs:Person rdfs:subClassOf  foaf:Person

etc

Or do I miss the point?

Bernard

2011/6/3 Michael Hausenblas 

>
> http://schema.rdfs.org
>
> ... is now available - we're sorry for the delay ;)
>
> Cheers,
>Michael
> --
> Dr. Michael Hausenblas, Research Fellow
> LiDRC - Linked Data Research Centre
> DERI - Digital Enterprise Research Institute
> NUIG - National University of Ireland, Galway
> Ireland, Europe
> Tel. +353 91 495730
> http://linkeddata.deri.ie/
> http://sw-app.org/about.html
>
>
>


-- 
Bernard Vatant
Senior Consultant
Vocabulary & Data Integration
Tel:   +33 (0) 971 488 459
Mail: bernard.vat...@mondeca.com

Mondeca
3, cité Nollez 75018 Paris France
Web:http://www.mondeca.com
Blog:http://mondeca.wordpress.com