Re: There's No Money in Linked Data

[Antoine Isaac]

Hi Andreas, Prateek,

Very good points that you make about trust and domains.
In fact specific domains like the biology one or the culture one (see 
lodlam.net) try to address these issues in much more specific terms and 
business models that what would be discussed on this public-lod list.
So maybe that's whypeople around here just miss them.

For example I'm proud to be part of an initiative that releases a lot of CC0 
metadata and tries to think of business models for it [1]. But often techies 
are just not the best/only audience to spend efforts on: we need to discuss 
with data owners, other actors in the domains... In fact the guys leading these 
discussions in my project involve me only once in a while ;-)

Best,

Antoine

[1] for example
http://www.slideshare.net/antoineisaac/sxs-wi-culturehack-17106524
http://www.slideshare.net/hverwayen/business-model-innovation-open-data
pro.europeana.eu/support-for-open-data



Hi Andreas,

Thank you for the post and for the discussion. I agree with most of it. Some 
specific comments

*2. Most datasets of the LOD cloud are maintained by a single person or by nobody at 
all *(at least as stated on datahub.io )

I think this is key, may be having a tiered system like (apache? ) might help. 
Datasets with one person involved, go into incubator phase? and then later on 
depending on community involvement, usage, bugs/errors found they are promoted 
to an advanced level? This will ensure a greater oversight and community 
involvement. This might help even with the issues of quality as well.

*But now it’s time to clean up*:

Very crucial. It is something we have tried to point out in the past, [1]

Minor point:

*1. The LOD cloud covers mainly ‘general knowledge 
‘ in contrast to ‘domain knowledge 
‘

*
There are more domain specific datasets on LOD, Geonames, Music Brainz, Bio2RDF 
(you pointed out), Lingvoj,... I think there are few DBpedia like datasets 
(Freebase, and CIA Factbook). A big collection of information about places,
*

*
*Reference:

*


[1] Linked data is merely more data

P. Jain , P. 
Hitzler, P.Z. Yeh, K. Verma, A.P. Sheth
/Linked Data Meets Artificial Intelligence/, 82--86, 2010

Regards

Prateek

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Prateek Jain, Ph. D.
RSM
IBM T.J. Watson Research Center
1101 Kitchawan Road, 37-244
Yorktown Heights, NY 10598
http://resweb.watson.ibm.com/researcher/view.php?person=us-jainpr



*
*


On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 9:03 AM, Andreas Blumauer (Semantic Web Company) 
mailto:a.bluma...@semantic-web.at>> wrote:

Hi Prateek, hi all,

thank you for the more precise formulation of your hypothesis.

I've been thinking for a while what the reasons are for the low uptake of 
LOD in non-academic projects.

Here is the outcome: 
http://blog.semantic-web.at/2013/06/07/the-lod-cloud-is-dead-long-live-the-trusted-lod-cloud/

What do you think?

Kind Regards,

Andreas


--

Hello All,

I am one of the authors of the work being discussed.

All the stuff I have seen till now is about Linked Data being great and 
useful for data integration within commercial settings. The work does not 
disputes that. I agree we didn't use the proper term, and from the reading of 
the work it becomes clear we didn't complain about this aspect. The work will 
be revised to correct the terminology and other feedback from the mailing list.

The issue pointed out in the work is with Linked Open Data Cloud data 
sets. This is getting limited or no attention in the discussions. Its like 
saying the technology is awesome, lets not worry so much about the 'open' data 
sets.

In Adrea's blog he is saying technology is mature now. That is great.

Re: There's No Money in Linked Data

[Prateek]

Hi Andreas,

Thank you for the post and for the discussion. I agree with most of it.
Some specific comments

*2. Most datasets of the LOD cloud are maintained by a single person or by
nobody at all *(at least as stated on datahub.io)

I think this is key, may be having a tiered system like (apache? ) might
help. Datasets with one person involved, go into incubator phase? and then
later on depending on community involvement, usage, bugs/errors found they
are promoted to an advanced level? This will ensure a greater oversight and
community involvement. This might help even with the issues of quality as
well.

*But now it’s time to clean up*:

Very crucial. It is something we have tried to point out in the past, [1]

Minor point:

*1. The LOD cloud covers mainly ‘general
knowledge‘
in contrast to ‘domain knowledge
‘

*
There are more domain specific datasets on LOD, Geonames, Music Brainz,
Bio2RDF (you pointed out), Lingvoj,... I think there are few DBpedia like
datasets (Freebase, and CIA Factbook). A big collection of information
about places,
*

*
*Reference:

*
[1] Linked data is merely more data P.
Jain,
P. Hitzler, P.Z. Yeh, K. Verma, A.P. Sheth
*Linked Data Meets Artificial Intelligence*, 82--86, 2010

Regards

Prateek

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Prateek Jain, Ph. D.
RSM
IBM T.J. Watson Research Center
1101 Kitchawan Road, 37-244
Yorktown Heights, NY 10598
http://resweb.watson.ibm.com/researcher/view.php?person=us-jainpr



*
*


On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 9:03 AM, Andreas Blumauer (Semantic Web Company) <
a.bluma...@semantic-web.at> wrote:

> Hi Prateek, hi all,
>
> thank you for the more precise formulation of your hypothesis.
>
> I've been thinking for a while what the reasons are for the low uptake of
> LOD in non-academic projects.
>
> Here is the outcome:
> http://blog.semantic-web.at/2013/06/07/the-lod-cloud-is-dead-long-live-the-trusted-lod-cloud/
>
> What do you think?
>
> Kind Regards,
>
> Andreas
> --
>
> Hello All,
>
> I am one of the authors of the work being discussed.
>
> All the stuff I have seen till now is about Linked Data being great and
> useful for data integration within commercial settings. The work does not
> disputes that. I agree we didn't use the proper term, and from the reading
> of the work it becomes clear we didn't complain about this aspect. The work
> will be revised to correct the terminology and other feedback from the
> mailing list.
>
> The issue pointed out in the work is with Linked Open Data Cloud data
> sets. This is getting limited or no attention in the discussions. Its like
> saying the technology is awesome, lets not worry so much about the 'open'
> data sets.
>
> In Adrea's blog he is saying technology is mature now. That is great. But
> these technologies have been around for a while now.
>
> The question still remains, what about the 'open' datasets amassed till
> now? The 300+ datasets which everyone uses in their slides.
>
> In the blog
>
> "Yes, there is a critical mass of available LOD sources (for example UK
> Ordnance Survey) and also of high-quality thesauri and ontologies (for
> example Wolter Kluwer’s working law thesaurus) to be reused in corporate
> settings"
>
> But they have been around for about 6 yrs? Why haven't they been used till
> now besides academic playgrounds or for pure research? Is it not good
> enough to be used? In the hope it will happen one day? In your blog there
> is a link for use case of Linked Data. Why don't we find same thing for
> Linked Open Data?
>
> (These are all questions which I have pondered about, not a criticism)
>
> I have tried collecting the use cases before for LOD
> http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.org.w3c.public-lod/1575
>
> The response was limited.
>
> Happy to see the discussion, but I think the main issue seems to be
> getting sidelined.
>
> Regards
>
> Prateek
>
> Note: The views expressed herein are my own and do not necessarily reflect
> the views of my co-authors of the work 'There's No Money in Linked Data'
> and my employer.
>
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> Prateek Jain, Ph. D.
> RSM
> IBM T.J. Watson Research Center
> 1101 Kitchawan Road, 37-244
> Yorktown Heights, NY 10598
> Linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/in/prateekj
>
>
>


-- 
Prateek

Re: There's No Money in Linked Data

[Gannon Dick]

Very nice work, Kingsley.

FWIW, Vint Cerf recently made the same point ...

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/06/05/internet_pioneer_vince_cerf_big_data_apocalypse/

I'm not sure you can get him to agree that that was the point he was making.  
You are on your own there.

And I apologize in advance for not being an early adopter of your Service.  I 
my particular instance ID Control is well handled by the simple fact that 
nobody else is crazy enough to want a strange name like "Gannon (J.) Dick".  
Firewalls have been trying to educate me for years without success.

--Gannon





 From: Kingsley Idehen 
To: "public-lod@w3.org"  
Cc: Semantic Web ; business-of-linked-data-bold 
 
Sent: Friday, June 7, 2013 10:47 AM
Subject: Re: There's No Money in Linked Data
 


On 6/7/13 11:25 AM, Gannon Dick wrote:

Lots of people make lots of money from data, structured data and Linked Data.  
This is a good thing. But data is a perpetuity not an annuity. 
>
Depends on who is claiming the annuity. For instance, imagine a
world in which you charge the annuity for access to your master
profile data.

Master profile data? That's data curated by "You" and culled from a
plethora of sources that include those Web 2.0 social networks that
once thought the joke was on "You" etc.. 


The math works fine if correctly applied. 
>
Yes. Thus, flip the script :-)


Don't expect your Smart Phone or Robotic Agent to have a Banker's expectations, 
they are much too logical for that :-)
>
Not expecting that. I believe in the magic of being you!

Links: http://youid.openlinksw.com -- for a teaser !

Kingsley 

--Gannon 
>
>
>
>
> From: Kingsley Idehen 
>To: "public-lod@w3.org"  
>Cc: Semantic Web  
>Sent: Friday, June 7, 2013 9:59 AM
>Subject: Re: There's No Money in Linked Data
> 
>
>
>On 6/7/13 10:47 AM, Gannon Dick wrote:
>
>I agree, Andrea, and would further point out that "how much money" is a 
>relativistic question.  Money has an associated Time Value.
>>
>>Money, Light and Linked Data get no Birthday
  Party, sadly, which is to say they have no
  Birthday.  Money tries to cheat by having a Time
  Value but no Birthday.  Light can not cheat: One
  (1) light-year is 364+(2/364) light-days plus 1
  light-day (after) every four years. (1/365) is an
  approximation to "364 days + 2 halves of the same
  measurement".  This is not a trivial point.
>>
>>To paraphrase your question: What is the Banker's
  Return on the Time Value of Linked Data ?
>>Answer: Zero (intellectually honest answer), But
  don't tell Bankers, they are ferocious when
  provoked..
>>--Gannon
>What about when you apply your formula to the Web?
  Basically, is anyone (including Bankers) making money
  on the Web? 
>
>Funnily enough, I just had a conversation with a
  Banker that went something like this, as part of an
  identity verification process:
>
>Banker said "based on public records, which of the
  following statements about you is true?" 
>
>Was the outcome of interaction valuable to the banker? 
>
>Was the outcome valuable to me? 
>
>In either case, would money be potentially made or
  lost as are result of that interaction? It took about
      5 minutes :-) 
>
>Kingsley 
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Andrea Splendiani 
>>To: Prateek  
>>Cc: public-lod@w3.org; Semantic Web  
>>Sent: Friday, June 7, 2013 4:10 AM
>>Subject: Re: There's No Money in Linked Data
>> 
>>
>>
>>Hi, 
>>
>>
>>Let me get into this thread with a bit of a provocative statement.
>>
>>
>>I think the issue is not whether there is money or not in linked data, but: 
>>how much money is in linked data ?
>>
>>
>>Lot of money has been injected by research funds, maybe governments and maybe 
>>even industry. 
>>Is the business generated of less, more, or just about the same value ? 
>>
>>
>>Another point of view, perhaps more appropriate, is that Linked-Data is a bit 
>>like building highways. You can eventually measure the economic benefit of 
>>having them, but (at least in several countries) it's not something from 
>>which you expect a return.
>>
>>
>>ciao,
>>Andrea
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Il giorno 06

Re: There's No Money in Linked Data

[Kingsley Idehen]

On 6/7/13 11:25 AM, Gannon Dick wrote:
Lots of people make lots of money from data, structured data and 
Linked Data.  This is a good thing. But data is a perpetuity not an 
annuity.


Depends on who is claiming the annuity. For instance, imagine a world in 
which you charge the annuity for access to your master profile data.


Master profile data? That's data curated by "You" and culled from a 
plethora of sources that include those Web 2.0 social networks that once 
thought the joke was on "You" etc..



The math works fine if correctly applied.


Yes. Thus, flip the script :-)

Don't expect your Smart Phone or Robotic Agent to have a Banker's 
expectations, they are much too logical for that :-)


Not expecting that. I believe in the magic of being you!

Links: http://youid.openlinksw.com -- for a teaser !

Kingsley

--Gannon


*From:* Kingsley Idehen 
*To:* "public-lod@w3.org" 
*Cc:* Semantic Web 
*Sent:* Friday, June 7, 2013 9:59 AM
*Subject:* Re: There's No Money in Linked Data

On 6/7/13 10:47 AM, Gannon Dick wrote:
I agree, Andrea, and would further point out that "how much money" is 
a relativistic question.  Money has an associated Time Value.


Money, Light and Linked Data get no Birthday Party, sadly, which is 
to say they have no Birthday.  Money tries to cheat by having a Time 
Value but no Birthday.  Light can not cheat: One (1) light-year is 
364+(2/364) light-days plus 1 light-day (after) every four years. 
(1/365) is an approximation to "364 days + 2 halves of the same 
measurement".  This is not a trivial point.


To paraphrase your question: What is the Banker's Return on the Time 
Value of Linked Data ?
Answer: Zero (intellectually honest answer), But don't tell Bankers, 
they are ferocious when provoked..

--Gannon


What about when you apply your formula to the Web? Basically, is 
anyone (including Bankers) making money on the Web?


Funnily enough, I just had a conversation with a Banker that went 
something like this, as part of an identity verification process:


Banker said "based on public records, which of the following 
statements about you is true?"


Was the outcome of interaction valuable to the banker?

Was the outcome valuable to me?

In either case, would money be potentially made or lost as are result 
of that interaction? It took about 5 minutes :-)


Kingsley



*From:* Andrea Splendiani  
<mailto:andrea.splendi...@iscb.org>

*To:* Prateek  <mailto:jainprat...@gmail.com>
*Cc:* public-lod@w3.org <mailto:public-lod@w3.org>; Semantic Web 
 <mailto:semantic-...@w3.org>

*Sent:* Friday, June 7, 2013 4:10 AM
*Subject:* Re: There's No Money in Linked Data

Hi,

Let me get into this thread with a bit of a provocative statement.

I think the issue is not whether there is money or not in linked 
data, but: how much money is in linked data ?


Lot of money has been injected by research funds, maybe governments 
and maybe even industry.

Is the business generated of less, more, or just about the same value ?

Another point of view, perhaps more appropriate, is that Linked-Data 
is a bit like building highways. You can eventually measure the 
economic benefit of having them, but (at least in several countries) 
it's not something from which you expect a return.


ciao,
Andrea


Il giorno 06/giu/2013, alle ore 13:13, Prateek <mailto:jainprat...@gmail.com>> ha scritto:


For some reason, my original post didn't appear in the mailing list 
archives. My apologies for duplicate posts, if they show up here.


---------- Forwarded message --
From: *Prateek* mailto:jainprat...@gmail.com>>
Date: Wed, Jun 5, 2013 at 7:16 PM
Subject: Re: There's No Money in Linked Data
To: public-lod@w3.org <mailto:public-lod@w3.org>, Semantic Web 
mailto:semantic-...@w3.org>>, 
a.bluma...@semantic-web.at <mailto:a.bluma...@semantic-web.at>



Hello All,

I am one of the authors of the work being discussed.

All the stuff I have seen till now is about Linked Data being great 
and useful for data integration within commercial settings. The work 
does not disputes that. I agree we didn't use the proper term, and 
from the reading of the work it becomes clear we didn't complain 
about this aspect. The work will be revised to correct the 
terminology and other feedback from the mailing list.


The issue pointed out in the work is with Linked Open Data Cloud 
data sets. This is getting limited or no attention in the 
discussions. Its like saying the technology is awesome, lets not 
worry so much about the 'open' data sets.


In Adrea's blog he is saying technology is mature now. That is 
great. But these technologies have been around for a while now.


The question stil

Re: There's No Money in Linked Data

[Gannon Dick]

Lots of people make lots of money from data, structured data and Linked Data.  
This is a good thing. But data is a perpetuity not an annuity.  The math works 
fine if correctly applied.  Don't expect your Smart Phone or Robotic Agent to 
have a Banker's expectations, they are much too logical for that :-)
--Gannon



 From: Kingsley Idehen 
To: "public-lod@w3.org"  
Cc: Semantic Web  
Sent: Friday, June 7, 2013 9:59 AM
Subject: Re: There's No Money in Linked Data
 


On 6/7/13 10:47 AM, Gannon Dick wrote:

I agree, Andrea, and would further point out that "how much money" is a 
relativistic question.  Money has an associated Time Value.
>
>Money, Light and Linked Data get no Birthday Party, sadly, which
is to say they have no Birthday.  Money tries to cheat by having
a Time Value but no Birthday.  Light can not cheat: One (1)
light-year is 364+(2/364) light-days plus 1 light-day (after)
every four years. (1/365) is an approximation to "364 days + 2
halves of the same measurement".  This is not a trivial point.
>
>To paraphrase your question: What is the Banker's Return on the
Time Value of Linked Data ?
>Answer: Zero (intellectually honest answer), But don't tell
Bankers, they are ferocious when provoked..
>--Gannon
What about when you apply your formula to the Web? Basically, is
anyone (including Bankers) making money on the Web? 

Funnily enough, I just had a conversation with a Banker that went
something like this, as part of an identity verification process:

Banker said "based on public records, which of the following
statements about you is true?" 

Was the outcome of interaction valuable to the banker? 

Was the outcome valuable to me? 

In either case, would money be potentially made or lost as are
result of that interaction? It took about 5 minutes :-) 

Kingsley 


>
>
>
> From: Andrea Splendiani 
>To: Prateek  
>Cc: public-lod@w3.org; Semantic Web  
>Sent: Friday, June 7, 2013 4:10 AM
>Subject: Re: There's No Money in Linked Data
> 
>
>
>Hi, 
>
>
>Let me get into this thread with a bit of a provocative statement.
>
>
>I think the issue is not whether there is money or not in linked data, but: 
>how much money is in linked data ?
>
>
>Lot of money has been injected by research funds, maybe governments and maybe 
>even industry. 
>Is the business generated of less, more, or just about the same value ? 
>
>
>Another point of view, perhaps more appropriate, is that Linked-Data is a bit 
>like building highways. You can eventually measure the economic benefit of 
>having them, but (at least in several countries) it's not something from which 
>you expect a return.
>
>
>ciao,
>Andrea
>
>
>
>
>Il giorno 06/giu/2013, alle ore 13:13, Prateek  ha 
>scritto:
>
>For some reason, my original post didn't appear in the mailing list archives. 
>My apologies for duplicate posts, if they show up here.
>>
>>
>>-- Forwarded message --
>>From: Prateek 
>>Date: Wed, Jun 5, 2013 at 7:16 PM
>>Subject: Re: There's No Money in Linked Data
>>To: public-lod@w3.org, Semantic Web , 
>>a.bluma...@semantic-web.at
>>
>>
>>
>>Hello All,
>>
>>I am one of the authors of the work
being discussed.
>>
>>All the stuff I have seen till now is
about Linked Data being great and useful
for data integration within commercial
settings. The work does not disputes
that. I agree we didn't use the proper
term, and from the reading of the work
it becomes clear we didn't complain
about this aspect. The work will be
revised to correct the terminology and
other feedback from the mailing list.
>>
>>
>>The issue pointed out in the work is with Linked Open Data Cloud data sets. 
>>This is getting limited or no attention in the discussions. Its like saying 
>>the technology is awesome, lets not worry so much about the 'open' data sets. 
>>
>>In Adrea's blog he is saying technology
is mature now. That is great. But these
technologies have been around for a
while now.
>>
>>The question still remains, what about
the 'open' datasets amassed till now?
  

Re: There's No Money in Linked Data

[Kingsley Idehen]

On 6/7/13 10:47 AM, Gannon Dick wrote:
I agree, Andrea, and would further point out that "how much money" is 
a relativistic question.  Money has an associated Time Value.


Money, Light and Linked Data get no Birthday Party, sadly, which is to 
say they have no Birthday.  Money tries to cheat by having a Time 
Value but no Birthday.  Light can not cheat: One (1) light-year is 
364+(2/364) light-days plus 1 light-day (after) every four years. 
(1/365) is an approximation to "364 days + 2 halves of the same 
measurement".  This is not a trivial point.


To paraphrase your question: What is the Banker's Return on the Time 
Value of Linked Data ?
Answer: Zero (intellectually honest answer), But don't tell Bankers, 
they are ferocious when provoked..

--Gannon


What about when you apply your formula to the Web? Basically, is anyone 
(including Bankers) making money on the Web?


Funnily enough, I just had a conversation with a Banker that went 
something like this, as part of an identity verification process:


Banker said "based on public records, which of the following statements 
about you is true?"


Was the outcome of interaction valuable to the banker?

Was the outcome valuable to me?

In either case, would money be potentially made or lost as are result of 
that interaction? It took about 5 minutes :-)


Kingsley



*From:* Andrea Splendiani 
*To:* Prateek 
*Cc:* public-lod@w3.org; Semantic Web 
*Sent:* Friday, June 7, 2013 4:10 AM
*Subject:* Re: There's No Money in Linked Data

Hi,

Let me get into this thread with a bit of a provocative statement.

I think the issue is not whether there is money or not in linked data, 
but: how much money is in linked data ?


Lot of money has been injected by research funds, maybe governments 
and maybe even industry.

Is the business generated of less, more, or just about the same value ?

Another point of view, perhaps more appropriate, is that Linked-Data 
is a bit like building highways. You can eventually measure the 
economic benefit of having them, but (at least in several countries) 
it's not something from which you expect a return.


ciao,
Andrea


Il giorno 06/giu/2013, alle ore 13:13, Prateek <mailto:jainprat...@gmail.com>> ha scritto:


For some reason, my original post didn't appear in the mailing list 
archives. My apologies for duplicate posts, if they show up here.


-- Forwarded message --
From: *Prateek* mailto:jainprat...@gmail.com>>
Date: Wed, Jun 5, 2013 at 7:16 PM
Subject: Re: There's No Money in Linked Data
To: public-lod@w3.org <mailto:public-lod@w3.org>, Semantic Web 
mailto:semantic-...@w3.org>>, 
a.bluma...@semantic-web.at <mailto:a.bluma...@semantic-web.at>



Hello All,

I am one of the authors of the work being discussed.

All the stuff I have seen till now is about Linked Data being great 
and useful for data integration within commercial settings. The work 
does not disputes that. I agree we didn't use the proper term, and 
from the reading of the work it becomes clear we didn't complain 
about this aspect. The work will be revised to correct the 
terminology and other feedback from the mailing list.


The issue pointed out in the work is with Linked Open Data Cloud data 
sets. This is getting limited or no attention in the discussions. Its 
like saying the technology is awesome, lets not worry so much about 
the 'open' data sets.


In Adrea's blog he is saying technology is mature now. That is great. 
But these technologies have been around for a while now.


The question still remains, what about the 'open' datasets amassed 
till now? The 300+ datasets which everyone uses in their slides.


In the blog


"Yes, there is a critical mass of available LOD sources (for example 
UK Ordnance Survey) and also of high-quality thesauri and ontologies 
(for example Wolter Kluwer’s working law thesaurus) to be reused in 
corporate settings"


But they have been around for about 6 yrs? Why haven't they been used 
till now besides academic playgrounds or for pure research? Is it not 
good enough to be used? In the hope it will happen one day? In your 
blog there is a link for use case of Linked Data. Why don't we find 
same thing for Linked Open Data?


(These are all questions which I have pondered about, not a criticism)

I have tried collecting the use cases before for LOD 
http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.org.w3c.public-lod/1575


The response was limited.

Happy to see the discussion, but I think the main issue seems to be 
getting sidelined.


Regards

Prateek

Note: The views expressed herein are my own and do not necessarily 
reflect the views of my co-authors of the work 'There's No Money in 
Linked Data' and my employer.


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Prateek Jain, Ph. D.
RSM

Re: There's No Money in Linked Data

[Gannon Dick]

I agree, Andrea, and would further point out that "how much money" is a 
relativistic question.  Money has an associated Time Value.

Money, Light and Linked Data get no Birthday Party, sadly, which is to say they 
have no Birthday.  Money tries to cheat by having a Time Value but no Birthday. 
 Light can not cheat: One (1) light-year is 364+(2/364) light-days plus 1 
light-day (after) every four years. (1/365) is an approximation to "364 days + 
2 halves of the same measurement".  This is not a trivial point.

To paraphrase your question: What is the Banker's Return on the Time Value of 
Linked Data ?
Answer: Zero (intellectually honest answer), But don't tell Bankers, they are 
ferocious when provoked..
--Gannon



 From: Andrea Splendiani 
To: Prateek  
Cc: public-lod@w3.org; Semantic Web  
Sent: Friday, June 7, 2013 4:10 AM
Subject: Re: There's No Money in Linked Data
 


Hi,

Let me get into this thread with a bit of a provocative statement.

I think the issue is not whether there is money or not in linked data, but: how 
much money is in linked data ?

Lot of money has been injected by research funds, maybe governments and maybe 
even industry. 
Is the business generated of less, more, or just about the same value ? 

Another point of view, perhaps more appropriate, is that Linked-Data is a bit 
like building highways. You can eventually measure the economic benefit of 
having them, but (at least in several countries) it's not something from which 
you expect a return.

ciao,
Andrea


Il giorno 06/giu/2013, alle ore 13:13, Prateek  ha 
scritto:

For some reason, my original post didn't appear in the mailing list archives. 
My apologies for duplicate posts, if they show up here.
>
>
>-- Forwarded message --
>From: Prateek 
>Date: Wed, Jun 5, 2013 at 7:16 PM
>Subject: Re: There's No Money in Linked Data
>To: public-lod@w3.org, Semantic Web , 
>a.bluma...@semantic-web.at
>
>
>
>Hello All,
>
>I am one of the authors of the work being discussed.
>
>All the stuff I have seen till now is about Linked Data being great and useful 
>for data integration within commercial settings. The work does not disputes 
>that. I agree we didn't use the proper term, and from the reading of the work 
>it becomes clear we didn't complain about this aspect. The work will be 
>revised to correct the terminology and other feedback from the mailing list.
>
>
>The issue pointed out in the work is with Linked Open Data Cloud data sets. 
>This is getting limited or no attention in the discussions. Its like saying 
>the technology is awesome, lets not worry so much about the 'open' data sets. 
>
>In Adrea's blog he is saying technology is mature now. That is great. But 
>these technologies have been around for a while now.
>
>The question still remains, what about the 'open' datasets amassed till now? 
>The 300+ datasets which everyone uses in their slides.
>
>In the blog
>
>
>"Yes, there is a critical mass of available LOD sources (for example UK 
>Ordnance Survey) and also of high-quality thesauri and ontologies (for example 
>Wolter Kluwer’s working law thesaurus) to be reused in corporate settings"
>
>But they have been around for about 6 yrs? Why haven't they been used till now 
>besides academic playgrounds or for pure research? Is it not good enough to be 
>used? In the hope it will happen one day? In your blog there is a link for use 
>case of Linked Data. Why don't we find same thing for Linked Open Data?
> 
>
>(These are all questions which I have pondered about, not a criticism)
>
>
>I have tried collecting the use cases before for LOD 
>http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.org.w3c.public-lod/1575
>
>
>The response was limited.
>
>
>Happy to see the discussion, but I think the main issue seems to be getting 
>sidelined.
>
>Regards
>
>Prateek
>
>
>Note: The views expressed herein are my own and do not necessarily reflect the 
>views of my co-authors of the work 'There's No Money in Linked Data' 
and my employer.
>
>- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 
>
>
>
>Prateek Jain, Ph. D.
>RSM
>IBM T.J. Watson Research Center
>1101 Kitchawan Road, 37-244
>Yorktown Heights, NY 10598
>Linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/in/prateekj 
>

Re: There's No Money in Linked Data

[Andreas Blumauer (Semantic Web Company)]

Hi Prateek, hi all, 

thank you for the more precise formulation of your hypothesis. 

I've been thinking for a while what the reasons are for the low uptake of LOD 
in non-academic projects. 

Here is the outcome: 
http://blog.semantic-web.at/2013/06/07/the-lod-cloud-is-dead-long-live-the-trusted-lod-cloud/
 

What do you think? 

Kind Regards, 

Andreas 
- Original Message -

| Hello All,

| I am one of the authors of the work being discussed.

| All the stuff I have seen till now is about Linked Data being great and
| useful for data integration within commercial settings. The work does not
| disputes that. I agree we didn't use the proper term, and from the reading
| of the work it becomes clear we didn't complain about this aspect. The work
| will be revised to correct the terminology and other feedback from the
| mailing list.

| The issue pointed out in the work is with Linked Open Data Cloud data sets.
| This is getting limited or no attention in the discussions. Its like saying
| the technology is awesome, lets not worry so much about the 'open' data
| sets.

| In Adrea's blog he is saying technology is mature now. That is great. But
| these technologies have been around for a while now.

| The question still remains, what about the 'open' datasets amassed till now?
| The 300+ datasets which everyone uses in their slides.

| In the blog

| "Yes, there is a critical mass of available LOD sources (for example UK
| Ordnance Survey) and also of high-quality thesauri and ontologies (for
| example Wolter Kluwer’s working law thesaurus) to be reused in corporate
| settings"

| But they have been around for about 6 yrs? Why haven't they been used till
| now besides academic playgrounds or for pure research? Is it not good enough
| to be used? In the hope it will happen one day? In your blog there is a link
| for use case of Linked Data. Why don't we find same thing for Linked Open
| Data?

| (These are all questions which I have pondered about, not a criticism)

| I have tried collecting the use cases before for LOD
| http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.org.w3c.public-lod/1575

| The response was limited.

| Happy to see the discussion, but I think the main issue seems to be getting
| sidelined.

| Regards

| Prateek

| Note: The views expressed herein are my own and do not necessarily reflect
| the views of my co-authors of the work 'There's No Money in Linked Data' and
| my employer.

| - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
| Prateek Jain, Ph. D.
| RSM
| IBM T.J. Watson Research Center
| 1101 Kitchawan Road, 37-244
| Yorktown Heights, NY 10598
| Linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/in/prateekj

Re: There's No Money in Linked Data

[Hugh Glaser]

Thanks Prateek, very helpful.

And yes, I think there are many questions to be asked about Linked Open Data, 
such as is there money in it? for whom? how? what are the impediments?
And as each of the many years pass, for a technology that claims to be 
transforming at a technological and a social level, statements of faith that it 
will transform things, rather than widespread evidence that it has, become more 
problematic.
Of course some of us may "keep the faith", but "blind faith" is not a good 
place to be :-)
Discussion of impediment is particularly important, even if it involves casting 
out the beam from our own eye.
Best regards
Hugh

On 6 Jun 2013, at 00:16, Prateek 
 wrote:

> Hello All,
> 
> I am one of the authors of the work being discussed.
> 
> All the stuff I have seen till now is about Linked Data being great and 
> useful for data integration within commercial settings. The work does not 
> disputes that. I agree we didn't use the proper term, and from the reading of 
> the work it becomes clear we didn't complain about this aspect. The work will 
> be revised to correct the terminology and other feedback from the mailing 
> list.
> 
> The issue pointed out in the work is with Linked Open Data Cloud data sets. 
> This is getting limited or no attention in the discussions. Its like saying 
> the technology is awesome, lets not worry so much about the 'open' data sets. 
> 
> In Adrea's blog he is saying technology is mature now. That is great. But 
> these technologies have been around for a while now.
> 
> The question still remains, what about the 'open' datasets amassed till now? 
> The 300+ datasets which everyone uses in their slides.
> 
> In the blog
> 
> "Yes, there is a critical mass of available LOD sources (for example UK 
> Ordnance Survey) and also of high-quality thesauri and ontologies (for 
> example Wolter Kluwer’s working law thesaurus) to be reused in corporate 
> settings"
> 
> But they have been around for about 6 yrs? Why haven't they been used till 
> now besides academic playgrounds or for pure research? Is it not good enough 
> to be used? In the hope it will happen one day? In your blog there is a link 
> for use case of Linked Data. Why don't we find same thing for Linked Open 
> Data?
>  
> (These are all questions which I have pondered about, not a criticism)
> 
> I have tried collecting the use cases before for LOD 
> http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.org.w3c.public-lod/1575
> 
> The response was limited.
> 
> Happy to see the discussion, but I think the main issue seems to be getting 
> sidelined.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Prateek
> 
> Note: The views expressed herein are my own and do not necessarily reflect 
> the views of my co-authors of the work 'There's No Money in Linked Data' and 
> my employer.
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 
> Prateek Jain, Ph. D.
> RSM
> IBM T.J. Watson Research Center
> 1101 Kitchawan Road, 37-244
> Yorktown Heights, NY 10598
> Linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/in/prateekj
> 

Re: There's No Money in Linked Data

[Melvin Carvalho]

On 18 May 2013 04:15, Pascal Hitzler  wrote:

> We just finished a piece indicating serious legal issues regarding the
> commercialization of Linked Data - this may be of general interest, hence
> the post. We hope to stimulate discussions on this issue (hence the
> provokative title).
>
> Available from
> http://knoesis.wright.edu/**faculty/pascal/pub/nomoneylod.**pdf
>
> Abstract.
> Linked Data (LD) has been an active research area for more than 6 years
> and many aspects about publishing, retrieving, linking, and cleaning Linked
> Data have been investigated. There seems to be a broad and general
> agreement that in principle LD datasets can be very useful for solving a
> wide variety of problems ranging from practical industrial analytics to
> highly specific research problems. Having these notions in mind, we started
> exploring the use of notable LD datasets such as DBpedia, Freebase,
> Geonames and others for a commercial application. However, it turns out
> that using these datasets in realistic settings is not always easy.
> Surprisingly, in many cases the underlying issues are not technical but
> legal barriers erected by the LD data publishers. In this paper we argue
> that these barriers are often not justified, detrimental to both data
> publishers and users, and are often built without much consideration of
> their consequences.
>

Much depends on how many stars you use.

Bitcoin is linked data, each transaction block links to the previous.  It
uses URIs and hashes.

Ripple is linked data, as above.

Both are billion dollar market caps in a short space of time.

We should not only focus on 5 star linked data.  In local you can see the
universal, and in the universal you can see the local.  I also believe
there's going to be a huge industry in 5 star LD tho ...

I personally like how James Joyce put it:

"For myself, I always write about Dublin, because if I can get to the heart
of Dublin I can get to the heart of all the cities of the world. In the
particular is contained the universal."

Just my 2 cents ... :)


>
> Authors:
> Prateek Jain, Pascal Hitzler, Krzysztof Janowicz, Chitra Venkatramani
>
> --
> Prof. Dr. Pascal Hitzler
> Kno.e.sis Center, Wright State University, Dayton, OH
> pas...@pascal-hitzler.de   http://www.knoesis.org/pascal/
> Semantic Web Textbook: 
> http://www.semantic-web-book.**org
> Semantic Web Journal: 
> http://www.semantic-web-**journal.net
>
>
>

Re: There's No Money in Linked Data

[Andrea Splendiani]

Hi,

> Is there some success story with a quantification of business savings due to 
> adopting a Linked-Data infrastructure ?
> Or perhaps some estimate of revenues/sales from linked-data based products ?
> 
> I think if some companies using Linked Data based technologies can publish 
> something on those lines (may be some have already done so, but I don't 
> recall seeing any with numbers), it would definitely help the industrial 
> adaption of Linked Data as others can evaluate the benefits and risks of 
> using Linked Data based on some empirical evidence.   
Indeed, that would be very useful!

best,
Andrea

> 
> Best Regards,
> Nandana
> 
> Then there are a few other considerations to be made.
> 
> I'm not familiar with Jazz products, but looking at the website is a complete 
> suite of things. Is Linked-Data used as a flagship products for a suite where 
> the other components are what people is willing to pay for ?
> 
> Also, where do we trace the boundary of what is linked data and what is not ? 
> Beyond a strict technical definition, if somebody takes a linked-data 
> resource, put it into a graph database and doesn't use RDF/sparql anymore... 
> we could argue that the value (eventually) generated is still at some point 
> due to the availability of linked-data resources. Or not ?
> 
> Again, I'm playing the devil's advocate here, I'm not needing to be 
> convinced. But I'm expressing some reflections that were actual comments of 
> people, to which I didn't really know what to answer, except that they should 
> think at linked-data like highways...
> 
> best,
> Andrea
>  
> 
> Il giorno 07/giu/2013, alle ore 10:31, Nandana Mihindukulasooriya 
> 
>  ha scritto:
> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 11:10 AM, Andrea Splendiani 
>>  wrote:
>> I think the issue is not whether there is money or not in linked data, but: 
>> how much money is in linked data ?
>> 
>> Lot of money has been injected by research funds, maybe governments and 
>> maybe even industry. 
>> Is the business generated of less, more, or just about the same value ? 
>> 
>> As it was mentioned several times in this thread, Linked Data for Enterprise 
>> Application Integration has generated a lot of business and there is a lot 
>> of money in it. One good example would be IBM Jazz products [2] based on 
>> Linked Data [1].
>> 
>> Best Regards,
>> Nandana
>> 
>> [1] - https://jazz.net/story/about/about-jazz-platform.jsp
>> [2] - https://jazz.net/products/
>> 
>> -- 
>> This message has been scanned for viruses and 
>> dangerous content by MailScanner, and 
>> we believe but do not warrant that this e-mail and any attachments thereto 
>> do not contain any viruses. However, you are fully responsible for 
>> performing any virus scanning.

Re: There's No Money in Linked Data

[Nandana Mihindukulasooriya]

Hi,

On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 11:52 AM, Andrea Splendiani <
andrea.splendi...@iscb.org> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> but let me play the devil's advocate. And actually this is something I
> have been asked sometimes by time by people not strictly in the linked-data
> crowd.
> How do you quantify the business generated ?
>

I think this is a hard question to answer. How much money has the web
generated ? Anyways I like your analogy of highways, Linked Data is an
enabler, people build so many different businesses around that.


> Is there some success story with a quantification of business savings due
> to adopting a Linked-Data infrastructure ?
> Or perhaps some estimate of revenues/sales from linked-data based products
> ?
>

I think if some companies using Linked Data based technologies can publish
something on those lines (may be some have already done so, but I don't
recall seeing any with numbers), it would definitely help the industrial
adaption of Linked Data as others can evaluate the benefits and risks of
using Linked Data based on some empirical evidence.

Best Regards,
Nandana

Then there are a few other considerations to be made.
>
> I'm not familiar with Jazz products, but looking at the website is a
> complete suite of things. Is Linked-Data used as a flagship products for a
> suite where the other components are what people is willing to pay for ?
>

> Also, where do we trace the boundary of what is linked data and what is
> not ? Beyond a strict technical definition, if somebody takes a linked-data
> resource, put it into a graph database and doesn't use RDF/sparql
> anymore... we could argue that the value (eventually) generated is still at
> some point due to the availability of linked-data resources. Or not ?
>
> Again, I'm playing the devil's advocate here, I'm not needing to be
> convinced. But I'm expressing some reflections that were actual comments of
> people, to which I didn't really know what to answer, except that they
> should think at linked-data like highways...
>
> best,
> Andrea
>
>
> Il giorno 07/giu/2013, alle ore 10:31, Nandana Mihindukulasooriya <
> nandana@gmail.com>
>  ha scritto:
>
> Hi,
>
> On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 11:10 AM, Andrea Splendiani <
> andrea..splendi...@iscb.org > wrote:
>>
>> I think the issue is not whether there is money or not in linked data,
>> but: how much money is in linked data ?
>>
>> Lot of money has been injected by research funds, maybe governments and
>> maybe even industry.
>> Is the business generated of less, more, or just about the same value ?
>>
>
> As it was mentioned several times in this thread, Linked Data for
> Enterprise Application Integration has generated a lot of business and
> there is a lot of money in it. One good example would be IBM Jazz products
> [2] based on Linked Data [1].
>
> Best Regards,
> Nandana
>
> [1] - https://jazz.net/story/about/about-jazz-platform.jsp
> [2] - https://jazz.net/products/
>
> --
> This message has been scanned for viruses and
> dangerous content by *MailScanner* , and
> we believe but do not warrant that this e-mail and any attachments thereto
> do not contain any viruses. However, you are fully responsible for
> performing any virus scanning.
>
>

Re: There's No Money in Linked Data

[Andrea Splendiani]

Hi,

but let me play the devil's advocate. And actually this is something I have 
been asked sometimes by time by people not strictly in the linked-data crowd.
How do you quantify the business generated ?
Is there some success story with a quantification of business savings due to 
adopting a Linked-Data infrastructure ?
Or perhaps some estimate of revenues/sales from linked-data based products ?

Then there are a few other considerations to be made.

I'm not familiar with Jazz products, but looking at the website is a complete 
suite of things. Is Linked-Data used as a flagship products for a suite where 
the other components are what people is willing to pay for ?

Also, where do we trace the boundary of what is linked data and what is not ? 
Beyond a strict technical definition, if somebody takes a linked-data resource, 
put it into a graph database and doesn't use RDF/sparql anymore... we could 
argue that the value (eventually) generated is still at some point due to the 
availability of linked-data resources. Or not ?

Again, I'm playing the devil's advocate here, I'm not needing to be convinced. 
But I'm expressing some reflections that were actual comments of people, to 
which I didn't really know what to answer, except that they should think at 
linked-data like highways...

best,
Andrea
 

Il giorno 07/giu/2013, alle ore 10:31, Nandana Mihindukulasooriya 

 ha scritto:

> Hi,
> 
> On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 11:10 AM, Andrea Splendiani 
>  wrote:
> I think the issue is not whether there is money or not in linked data, but: 
> how much money is in linked data ?
> 
> Lot of money has been injected by research funds, maybe governments and maybe 
> even industry. 
> Is the business generated of less, more, or just about the same value ? 
> 
> As it was mentioned several times in this thread, Linked Data for Enterprise 
> Application Integration has generated a lot of business and there is a lot of 
> money in it. One good example would be IBM Jazz products [2] based on Linked 
> Data [1].
> 
> Best Regards,
> Nandana
> 
> [1] - https://jazz.net/story/about/about-jazz-platform.jsp
> [2] - https://jazz.net/products/
> 
> -- 
> This message has been scanned for viruses and 
> dangerous content by MailScanner, and 
> we believe but do not warrant that this e-mail and any attachments thereto do 
> not contain any viruses. However, you are fully responsible for performing 
> any virus scanning.

Re: There's No Money in Linked Data

[Nandana Mihindukulasooriya]

Hi,

On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 11:10 AM, Andrea Splendiani <
andrea.splendi...@iscb.org> wrote:
>
> I think the issue is not whether there is money or not in linked data,
> but: how much money is in linked data ?
>
> Lot of money has been injected by research funds, maybe governments and
> maybe even industry.
> Is the business generated of less, more, or just about the same value ?
>

As it was mentioned several times in this thread, Linked Data for
Enterprise Application Integration has generated a lot of business and
there is a lot of money in it. One good example would be IBM Jazz products
[2] based on Linked Data [1].

Best Regards,
Nandana

[1] - https://jazz.net/story/about/about-jazz-platform.jsp
[2] - https://jazz.net/products/

Re: There's No Money in Linked Data

[Andrea Splendiani]

Hi,

Let me get into this thread with a bit of a provocative statement.

I think the issue is not whether there is money or not in linked data, but: how 
much money is in linked data ?

Lot of money has been injected by research funds, maybe governments and maybe 
even industry. 
Is the business generated of less, more, or just about the same value ? 

Another point of view, perhaps more appropriate, is that Linked-Data is a bit 
like building highways. You can eventually measure the economic benefit of 
having them, but (at least in several countries) it's not something from which 
you expect a return.

ciao,
Andrea


Il giorno 06/giu/2013, alle ore 13:13, Prateek  ha 
scritto:

> For some reason, my original post didn't appear in the mailing list archives. 
> My apologies for duplicate posts, if they show up here.
> 
> -- Forwarded message --
> From: Prateek 
> Date: Wed, Jun 5, 2013 at 7:16 PM
> Subject: Re: There's No Money in Linked Data
> To: public-lod@w3.org, Semantic Web , 
> a.bluma...@semantic-web.at
> 
> 
> Hello All,
> 
> I am one of the authors of the work being discussed.
> 
> All the stuff I have seen till now is about Linked Data being great and 
> useful for data integration within commercial settings. The work does not 
> disputes that. I agree we didn't use the proper term, and from the reading of 
> the work it becomes clear we didn't complain about this aspect. The work will 
> be revised to correct the terminology and other feedback from the mailing 
> list.
> 
> The issue pointed out in the work is with Linked Open Data Cloud data sets. 
> This is getting limited or no attention in the discussions. Its like saying 
> the technology is awesome, lets not worry so much about the 'open' data sets. 
> 
> In Adrea's blog he is saying technology is mature now. That is great. But 
> these technologies have been around for a while now.
> 
> The question still remains, what about the 'open' datasets amassed till now? 
> The 300+ datasets which everyone uses in their slides.
> 
> In the blog
> 
> 
> "Yes, there is a critical mass of available LOD sources (for example UK 
> Ordnance Survey) and also of high-quality thesauri and ontologies (for 
> example Wolter Kluwer’s working law thesaurus) to be reused in corporate 
> settings"
> 
> But they have been around for about 6 yrs? Why haven't they been used till 
> now besides academic playgrounds or for pure research? Is it not good enough 
> to be used? In the hope it will happen one day? In your blog there is a link 
> for use case of Linked Data. Why don't we find same thing for Linked Open 
> Data?
>  
> (These are all questions which I have pondered about, not a criticism)
> 
> I have tried collecting the use cases before for LOD 
> http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.org.w3c.public-lod/1575
> 
> The response was limited.
> 
> Happy to see the discussion, but I think the main issue seems to be getting 
> sidelined.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Prateek
> 
> Note: The views expressed herein are my own and do not necessarily reflect 
> the views of my co-authors of the work 'There's No Money in Linked Data' and 
> my employer.
> 
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 
> 
> Prateek Jain, Ph. D.
> RSM
> IBM T.J. Watson Research Center
> 1101 Kitchawan Road, 37-244
> Yorktown Heights, NY 10598
> Linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/in/prateekj 

Re: There's No Money in Linked Data

[Prateek]

Hello All,

I am one of the authors of the work being discussed.

All the stuff I have seen till now is about Linked Data being great and
useful for data integration within commercial settings. The work does not
disputes that. I agree we didn't use the proper term, and from the reading
of the work it becomes clear we didn't complain about this aspect. The work
will be revised to correct the terminology and other feedback from the
mailing list.

The issue pointed out in the work is with Linked Open Data Cloud data sets.
This is getting limited or no attention in the discussions. Its like saying
the technology is awesome, lets not worry so much about the 'open' data
sets.

In Adrea's blog he is saying technology is mature now. That is great. But
these technologies have been around for a while now.

The question still remains, what about the 'open' datasets amassed till
now? The 300+ datasets which everyone uses in their slides.

In the blog

"Yes, there is a critical mass of available LOD sources (for example UK
Ordnance Survey) and also of high-quality thesauri and ontologies (for
example Wolter Kluwer’s working law thesaurus) to be reused in corporate
settings"

But they have been around for about 6 yrs? Why haven't they been used till
now besides academic playgrounds or for pure research? Is it not good
enough to be used? In the hope it will happen one day? In your blog there
is a link for use case of Linked Data. Why don't we find same thing for
Linked Open Data?

(These are all questions which I have pondered about, not a criticism)

I have tried collecting the use cases before for LOD
http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.org.w3c.public-lod/1575

The response was limited.

Happy to see the discussion, but I think the main issue seems to be getting
sidelined.

Regards

Prateek

Note: The views expressed herein are my own and do not necessarily reflect
the views of my co-authors of the work 'There's No Money in Linked Data'
and my employer.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Prateek Jain, Ph. D.
RSM
IBM T.J. Watson Research Center
1101 Kitchawan Road, 37-244
Yorktown Heights, NY 10598
Linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/in/prateekj

Re: There's No Money in Linked Data

[Andreas Blumauer]

I've published a blog post entitled 'There's Money in Linked Data'. 
Available from: 
http://blog.semantic-web.at/2013/06/04/theres-money-in-linked-data/ 

- 
Andreas Blumauer 
Managing Director & CEO

http://www.linkedin.com/in/andreasblumauer

Semantic Web Company GmbH 
Mariahilfer Straße 70 / 8 
A - 1070 Vienna, Austria 

http://www.semantic-web.at 
http://www.poolparty-software.com
 
Phone (Austria): +43-1-402123527  
Phone (US): +1 (415) 800-3776
Mobile: +43-676-9234162 
skype:blumauerpunkt 

- Original Message - 

| We just finished a piece indicating serious legal issues regarding the
| commercialization of Linked Data - this may be of general interest,
| hence the post. We hope to stimulate discussions on this issue (hence
| the provokative title).

| Available from
| http://knoesis.wright.edu/faculty/pascal/pub/nomoneylod.pdf

| Abstract.
| Linked Data (LD) has been an active research area for more than 6 years
| and many aspects about publishing, retrieving, linking, and cleaning
| Linked Data have been investigated. There seems to be a broad and
| general agreement that in principle LD datasets can be very useful for
| solving a wide variety of problems ranging from practical industrial
| analytics to highly specific research problems. Having these notions in
| mind, we started exploring the use of notable LD datasets such as
| DBpedia, Freebase, Geonames and others for a commercial application.
| However, it turns out that using these datasets in realistic settings is
| not always easy. Surprisingly, in many cases the underlying issues are
| not technical but legal barriers erected by the LD data publishers. In
| this paper we argue that these barriers are often not justified,
| detrimental to both data publishers and users, and are often built
| without much consideration of their consequences.

| Authors:
| Prateek Jain, Pascal Hitzler, Krzysztof Janowicz, Chitra Venkatramani

| --
| Prof. Dr. Pascal Hitzler
| Kno.e.sis Center, Wright State University, Dayton, OH
| pas...@pascal-hitzler.de http://www.knoesis.org/pascal/
| Semantic Web Textbook: http://www.semantic-web-book.org
| Semantic Web Journal: http://www.semantic-web-journal.net

Re: There's No Money in Linked Data

[Víctor Rodríguez Doncel]

Dear Leigh,

Since your analysis in 2009, I can confirm nothing has significantly 
changed.
We have also made a similar survey [1] at OEG-UPM, this time grouping 
similar licenses (from CC and ODC) and getting analogous results. 
Perhaps the growth of datasets in the public domain is remmarkable.


Regading the methodology, I just checked the asserted metadata in the 
LOD group in datahub, the next step being checking whether the licensing 
terms have also been asserted in the datasets.


Regards,
Víctor

[1] http://www.licensius.com/blog/lodlicenses



From: Leigh Dodds 
Date: Sat, 18 May 2013 09:58:24 +0100
Message-ID: 


To: Pascal Hitzler 
Cc: public-lod community 
Hi Pascal,

Its good to draw attention to these issues. At ISWC 2009 Tom Heath,
Kaitlin Thaney, Jordan Hatcher and myself ran a workshop a legal and
social issues for data sharing [1, 2]. Key themes from the workshop
were around the importance of clear licensing, norms for attribution,
and including machine-readable license data.

At the time I did a survey of the current state of licensing of the
Linked Data cloud, there's a write-up [3] and diagram [4].

*Looking over your analysis, I don't think the picture has changed**
**considerably since then. We need to work harder to ensure that data is**
**clearly licensed.* But this is a general problem for Open Data, not
just Linked Open Data.

You don't say in your paper how you did the analysis. Did you use the
metadata from the LOD group in datahub? [5]. At the time I had to do
mine manually, but it wouldn't be hard to automate some of this now,
perhaps to create an regularly updated set of indicators.

One criteria that agents might apply when conducting "Follow Your
Nose" consumption of Linked Data is the licensing of the target data,
e.g. ignore links to datasets that are not licensed for your
particular usage.

Cheers,

L.

[1]. 
http://opendatacommons.org/events/iswc-2009-legal-social-sharing-data-web/
[2]. 
http://blog.okfn.org/2009/11/05/slides-from-open-data-session-at-iswc-2009/

[3]. http://blog.ldodds.com/2010/01/01/rights-statements-on-the-web-of-data/
[4]. http://www.flickr.com/photos/ldodds/4043803502/
[5]. http://datahub.io/group/lodcloud

On Sat, May 18, 2013 at 3:15 AM, Pascal Hitzler
 wrote:
> We just finished a piece indicating serious legal issues regarding the
> commercialization of Linked Data - this may be of general interest, hence
> the post. We hope to stimulate discussions on this issue (hence the
> provokative title).
>
> Available from
> http://knoesis.wright.edu/faculty/pascal/pub/nomoneylod.pdf
>
> Abstract.
> Linked Data (LD) has been an active research area for more than 6 
years and
> many aspects about publishing, retrieving, linking, and cleaning 
Linked Data
> have been investigated. There seems to be a broad and general 
agreement that

> in principle LD datasets can be very useful for solving a wide variety of
> problems ranging from practical industrial analytics to highly specific
> research problems. Having these notions in mind, we started exploring the
> use of notable LD datasets such as DBpedia, Freebase, Geonames and others
> for a commercial application. However, it turns out that using these
> datasets in realistic settings is not always easy. Surprisingly, in many
> cases the underlying issues are not technical but legal barriers 
erected by
> the LD data publishers. In this paper we argue that these barriers 
are often
> not justified, detrimental to both data publishers and users, and are 
often

> built without much consideration of their consequences.
>
> Authors:
> Prateek Jain, Pascal Hitzler, Krzysztof Janowicz, Chitra Venkatramani
>
> --
> Prof. Dr. Pascal Hitzler
> Kno.e.sis Center, Wright State University, Dayton, OH
> pas...@pascal-hitzler.de   http://www.knoesis.org/pascal/
> Semantic Web Textbook: http://www.semantic-web-book.org
> Semantic Web Journal: http://www.semantic-web-journal.net
>
>



--
Leigh Dodds
Freelance Technologist
Open Data, Linked Data Geek
t: @ldodds
w: ldodds.com
e: le...@ldodds.com

--
Víctor Rodríguez-Doncel
D3205 - Ontology Engineering Group (OEG)
Departamento de Inteligencia Artificial
Facultad de Informática
Universidad Politécnica de Madrid

Campus de Montegancedo s/n
Boadilla del Monte-28660 Madrid, Spain
Tel. (+34) 91336 3672
Skype: vroddon3

Re: There's No Money in Linked Data

[Pascal Hitzler]

Thanks, Aidan - sorry for missing your analysis.

In fact, with the ensuing discussions it turns out that there is even 
more information out there, it's just extremely hard to find. Another 
reason why we need this discussion, and probably some concerted effort.


Pascal.

On 5/21/2013 3:14 PM, Aidan Hogan wrote:


On 18/05/2013 09:58, Leigh Dodds wrote:

You don't say in your paper how you did the analysis. Did you use the
metadata from the LOD group in datahub? At the time I had to do
mine manually, but it wouldn't be hard to automate some of this now,
perhaps to create an regularly updated set of indicators.

One criteria that agents might apply when conducting "Follow Your
Nose" consumption of Linked Data is the licensing of the target data,
e.g. ignore links to datasets that are not licensed for your
particular usage.


On a similar note, we also did a survey of some licensing issues in and
around Linked Data as part of a larger contribution looking at how
closely publishers of RDF follow various tips from the (now superseded
but still relevant) "How to Publish Linked Data on the Web" guide [1].

Our analysis is published/available at [2,3]. For the paper, we looked
at ~4 million RDF/XML documents crawled in May 2011, divided the data by
pay-level domain and looked at how well each domain followed the key
guidelines in [1] with the goal of seeing how well specific guidelines
are followed, and looking to comparatively rank the conformance of
publishers using objective measures. We ended up looking at 188 domains
that offered more than 1,000 quads.

Long story shortish, for one of the guidelines we looked specifically at
licensing information for documents embedded in the documents themselves
[p29,2]. This was tricky: we found a bunch of licensing properties in
use [Table 19,2]. Considering as many of these properties as we could
identify, we found that only 15% of the domains provided licensing
information embedded in *at least one* local document. Averaging equally
across the domains (which had different numbers of documents), about 3%
of documents contained observable licensing information about themselves.

On the plus side, there was some use of the creative-commons vocabulary:

 http://creativecommons.org/ns

... though I think dct:rights/dct:license are more actively promoted.



Versus registering the licensing information on the DataHub or so forth
(which AFAIK no longer supports a public SPARQL endpoint), it would be
much better for (SemWeb) consumers if publishers directly embed
licensing meta-data in the individual RDF documents themselves. There
are already established vocabularies and (at least CC) license URIs in
place for this.


Cheers/fwiw,
Aidan




[1]
http://wifo5-03.informatik.uni-mannheim.de/bizer/pub/LinkedDataTutorial/
[2] http://sw.deri.org/~aidanh/docs/ldstudy12.pdf
[3] Aidan Hogan, Jürgen Umbrich, Andreas Harth, Richard Cyganiak, Axel
Polleres and Stefan Decker. "An empirical survey of Linked Data
conformance ". In the Journal of Web Semantics 14: pp. 14–44, 2012.







--
Prof. Dr. Pascal Hitzler
Kno.e.sis Center, Wright State University, Dayton, OH
pas...@pascal-hitzler.de   http://pascal-hitzler.de/
Semantic Web Textbook: http://www.semantic-web-book.org/
Semantic Web Journal: http://www.semantic-web-journal.net/

Re: There's No Money in Linked Data

[Aidan Hogan]

On 18/05/2013 09:58, Leigh Dodds wrote:

You don't say in your paper how you did the analysis. Did you use the
metadata from the LOD group in datahub? At the time I had to do
mine manually, but it wouldn't be hard to automate some of this now,
perhaps to create an regularly updated set of indicators.

One criteria that agents might apply when conducting "Follow Your
Nose" consumption of Linked Data is the licensing of the target data,
e.g. ignore links to datasets that are not licensed for your
particular usage.


On a similar note, we also did a survey of some licensing issues in and 
around Linked Data as part of a larger contribution looking at how 
closely publishers of RDF follow various tips from the (now superseded 
but still relevant) "How to Publish Linked Data on the Web" guide [1].


Our analysis is published/available at [2,3]. For the paper, we looked 
at ~4 million RDF/XML documents crawled in May 2011, divided the data by 
pay-level domain and looked at how well each domain followed the key 
guidelines in [1] with the goal of seeing how well specific guidelines 
are followed, and looking to comparatively rank the conformance of 
publishers using objective measures. We ended up looking at 188 domains 
that offered more than 1,000 quads.


Long story shortish, for one of the guidelines we looked specifically at 
licensing information for documents embedded in the documents themselves 
[p29,2]. This was tricky: we found a bunch of licensing properties in 
use [Table 19,2]. Considering as many of these properties as we could 
identify, we found that only 15% of the domains provided licensing 
information embedded in *at least one* local document. Averaging equally 
across the domains (which had different numbers of documents), about 3% 
of documents contained observable licensing information about themselves.


On the plus side, there was some use of the creative-commons vocabulary:

http://creativecommons.org/ns

... though I think dct:rights/dct:license are more actively promoted.



Versus registering the licensing information on the DataHub or so forth 
(which AFAIK no longer supports a public SPARQL endpoint), it would be 
much better for (SemWeb) consumers if publishers directly embed 
licensing meta-data in the individual RDF documents themselves. There 
are already established vocabularies and (at least CC) license URIs in 
place for this.



Cheers/fwiw,
Aidan




[1] http://wifo5-03.informatik.uni-mannheim.de/bizer/pub/LinkedDataTutorial/
[2] http://sw.deri.org/~aidanh/docs/ldstudy12.pdf
[3] Aidan Hogan, Jürgen Umbrich, Andreas Harth, Richard Cyganiak, Axel 
Polleres and Stefan Decker. "An empirical survey of Linked Data 
conformance ". In the Journal of Web Semantics 14: pp. 14–44, 2012.

Re: Examples of FYN agents (was: Re: There's No Money in Linked Data)

[Olaf Hartig]

Hi Michael,

On Tuesday 21 May 2013 19:12:17 Michael Brunnbauer wrote:
> Hello Olaf,
> 
> very interesting! SQUIN may be useful for us in the future.

Cool!
 
> A "maximum query execution time" feature would be nice - so partial
> results (according to your query semantics) can be returned to impatient
> humans. Do you plan such a feature ?

Yes, I'm planing to add such a feature. The reason why I have not done this so 
far is that SQUIN currently implements the LTBQE paradigm based on a fixed 
pipeline of iterators, which is a very inflexible implementation approach. I'm 
currently working on a much more flexible alternative. Once this is done, I can 
start thinking about support for different optimization objectives (e.g., 
maximizing the number of solutions computed in a given amount of time).

Notice, what SQUIN already does is "streaming output", that is, reporting 
solutions as soon as they have been discovered (however, this feature is 
currently available only for simple BGP queries without solution modifiers such 
as ORDER BY or DISTINCT). 

> Is it possible to supply additional seed URIs for a query (e.G. via the
> API)?

It is:

If you use the command line interface you can simply add additional seed URIs 
via the parameter --lookup

If you use the API it is a bit more complicated. The easiest approach would be 
to simply copy the code that implements the aforementioned --lookup parameter. 
You find that code in class 'org.squin.command.modules.ModLDCache'; see in 
particular methods 'getLDCache' and 'ensureAvailabilityFinished'

If you have any issues or further questions, let me know.

Best,
Olaf

Re: Examples of FYN agents (was: Re: There's No Money in Linked Data)

[Michael Brunnbauer]

Hello Olaf,

very interesting! SQUIN may be useful for us in the future.

A "maximum query execution time" feature would be nice - so partial 
results (according to your query semantics) can be returned to impatient 
humans. Do you plan such a feature ? 

Is it possible to supply additional seed URIs for a query (e.G. via the API) ?

Regards,

Michael Brunnbauer

On Sat, May 18, 2013 at 01:30:55PM -0300, Olaf Hartig wrote:
> On Saturday 18 May 2013 12:26:13 Michael Brunnbauer wrote:
> > hi all,
> > 
> > On Sat, May 18, 2013 at 09:58:24AM +0100, Leigh Dodds wrote:
> > > One criteria that agents might apply when conducting "Follow Your
> > > Nose" consumption of Linked Data ...
> > 
> > I am interested in examples of such agents that are not crawlers or semantic
> > web browsers.
> 
> Any system that supports the link traversal based query execution paradigm 
> (LTBQE) presents such an example. For instance, SQUIN [1] is such a system.
> 
> If you want to get an overview on Linked Data query execution, including 
> LTBQE, you may read the slides from my WWW2013 tutorial [2] or this article 
> [3]. For a short, 4-pages paper on SQUIN refer to [4].
> 
> Best,
> Olaf
> 
> 
> [1] http://squin.org
> 
> [2] http://db.uwaterloo.ca/LDQTut2013/
> 
> [3] O. Hartig: An Overview on Execution Strategies for Linked Data Queries. 
> To 
> appear in Datenbankspektrum, 2013.
> http://olafhartig.de/files/Hartig_LDQueryExec_DBSpektrum2013_Preprint.pdf
> 
> [4] O. Hartig: SQUIN: A Traversal Based Query Execution System for the Web of 
> Linked Data. In SIGMOD 2013.
> http://olafhartig.de/files/Hartig_SIGMOD2013Demo_Preprint.pdf
> 
> 
> 
>  
> > Regards,
> > 
> > Michael Brunnbauer

-- 
++  Michael Brunnbauer
++  netEstate GmbH
++  Geisenhausener Straße 11a
++  81379 München
++  Tel +49 89 32 19 77 80
++  Fax +49 89 32 19 77 89 
++  E-Mail bru...@netestate.de
++  http://www.netestate.de/
++
++  Sitz: München, HRB Nr.142452 (Handelsregister B München)
++  USt-IdNr. DE221033342
++  Geschäftsführer: Michael Brunnbauer, Franz Brunnbauer
++  Prokurist: Dipl. Kfm. (Univ.) Markus Hendel

Re: There's No Money in Linked Data

[David Wood]

On May 19, 2013, at 23:42, Pascal Hitzler  wrote:

> On 5/18/2013 8:46 AM, David Wood wrote:
>> Good work, Pascal.  Some minor comments:
>> 
>> 1)  Licenses (and license compliance) are issues with much broader
>> communities, including Open Source software and other forms of open
>> content.
> 
> yes, certainly :)
> 
>> 2)  I wish you had used the term Linked *Open* Data to avoid purely
>> commercial users of Linked Data being confused.
> 
> I guess I'm guilty (as are many others in fact) of not being very clear in my 
> terminology regarding the distinction of Liked Data and Linked Open Data. But 
> then, our text shows that one has to take the "open" with a caveat ... so 
> perhaps the confusion in terminology is actually indicative of a deeper 
> problem ... ?


Hah, yes. I see your point :)

Regards,
Dave


> 
> Pascal.
> 
>> Regards, Dave -- http://about.me/david_wood
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On May 17, 2013, at 22:15, Pascal Hitzler 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> We just finished a piece indicating serious legal issues regarding
>>> the commercialization of Linked Data - this may be of general
>>> interest, hence the post. We hope to stimulate discussions on this
>>> issue (hence the provokative title).
>>> 
>>> Available from
>>> http://knoesis.wright.edu/faculty/pascal/pub/nomoneylod.pdf
>>> 
>>> Abstract. Linked Data (LD) has been an active research area for
>>> more than 6 years and many aspects about publishing, retrieving,
>>> linking, and cleaning Linked Data have been investigated. There
>>> seems to be a broad and general agreement that in principle LD
>>> datasets can be very useful for solving a wide variety of problems
>>> ranging from practical industrial analytics to highly specific
>>> research problems. Having these notions in mind, we started
>>> exploring the use of notable LD datasets such as DBpedia, Freebase,
>>> Geonames and others for a commercial application. However, it turns
>>> out that using these datasets in realistic settings is not always
>>> easy. Surprisingly, in many cases the underlying issues are not
>>> technical but legal barriers erected by the LD data publishers. In
>>> this paper we argue that these barriers are often not justified,
>>> detrimental to both data publishers and users, and are often built
>>> without much consideration of their consequences.
>>> 
>>> Authors: Prateek Jain, Pascal Hitzler, Krzysztof Janowicz, Chitra
>>> Venkatramani
>>> 
>>> -- Prof. Dr. Pascal Hitzler Kno.e.sis Center, Wright State
>>> University, Dayton, OH pas...@pascal-hitzler.de
>>> http://www.knoesis.org/pascal/ Semantic Web Textbook:
>>> http://www.semantic-web-book.org Semantic Web Journal:
>>> http://www.semantic-web-journal.net
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
> 
> -- 
> Prof. Dr. Pascal Hitzler
> Kno.e.sis Center, Wright State University, Dayton, OH
> pas...@pascal-hitzler.de   http://www.knoesis.org/pascal/
> Semantic Web Textbook: http://www.semantic-web-book.org
> Semantic Web Journal: http://www.semantic-web-journal.net
> 
> 

Re: There's No Money in Linked Data

[Pascal Hitzler]

On 5/18/2013 8:46 AM, David Wood wrote:

Good work, Pascal.  Some minor comments:

1)  Licenses (and license compliance) are issues with much broader
communities, including Open Source software and other forms of open
content.


yes, certainly :)


2)  I wish you had used the term Linked *Open* Data to avoid purely
commercial users of Linked Data being confused.


I guess I'm guilty (as are many others in fact) of not being very clear 
in my terminology regarding the distinction of Liked Data and Linked 
Open Data. But then, our text shows that one has to take the "open" with 
a caveat ... so perhaps the confusion in terminology is actually 
indicative of a deeper problem ... ?


Pascal.


Regards, Dave -- http://about.me/david_wood



On May 17, 2013, at 22:15, Pascal Hitzler 
wrote:


We just finished a piece indicating serious legal issues regarding
the commercialization of Linked Data - this may be of general
interest, hence the post. We hope to stimulate discussions on this
issue (hence the provokative title).

Available from
http://knoesis.wright.edu/faculty/pascal/pub/nomoneylod.pdf

Abstract. Linked Data (LD) has been an active research area for
more than 6 years and many aspects about publishing, retrieving,
linking, and cleaning Linked Data have been investigated. There
seems to be a broad and general agreement that in principle LD
datasets can be very useful for solving a wide variety of problems
ranging from practical industrial analytics to highly specific
research problems. Having these notions in mind, we started
exploring the use of notable LD datasets such as DBpedia, Freebase,
Geonames and others for a commercial application. However, it turns
out that using these datasets in realistic settings is not always
easy. Surprisingly, in many cases the underlying issues are not
technical but legal barriers erected by the LD data publishers. In
this paper we argue that these barriers are often not justified,
detrimental to both data publishers and users, and are often built
without much consideration of their consequences.

Authors: Prateek Jain, Pascal Hitzler, Krzysztof Janowicz, Chitra
Venkatramani

-- Prof. Dr. Pascal Hitzler Kno.e.sis Center, Wright State
University, Dayton, OH pas...@pascal-hitzler.de
http://www.knoesis.org/pascal/ Semantic Web Textbook:
http://www.semantic-web-book.org Semantic Web Journal:
http://www.semantic-web-journal.net






--
Prof. Dr. Pascal Hitzler
Kno.e.sis Center, Wright State University, Dayton, OH
pas...@pascal-hitzler.de   http://www.knoesis.org/pascal/
Semantic Web Textbook: http://www.semantic-web-book.org
Semantic Web Journal: http://www.semantic-web-journal.net

Re: There's No Money in Linked Data

[Pascal Hitzler]

Hello Leigh,

thanks for the pointers, I apologize for missing relevant ones. And I 
agree we should say how exactly we got the data, good point.


Pascal.

On 5/18/2013 4:58 AM, Leigh Dodds wrote:

Hi Pascal,

Its good to draw attention to these issues. At ISWC 2009 Tom Heath,
Kaitlin Thaney, Jordan Hatcher and myself ran a workshop a legal and
social issues for data sharing [1, 2]. Key themes from the workshop
were around the importance of clear licensing, norms for attribution,
and including machine-readable license data.

At the time I did a survey of the current state of licensing of the
Linked Data cloud, there's a write-up [3] and diagram [4].

Looking over your analysis, I don't think the picture has changed
considerably since then. We need to work harder to ensure that data is
clearly licensed. But this is a general problem for Open Data, not
just Linked Open Data.

You don't say in your paper how you did the analysis. Did you use the
metadata from the LOD group in datahub? [5]. At the time I had to do
mine manually, but it wouldn't be hard to automate some of this now,
perhaps to create an regularly updated set of indicators.

One criteria that agents might apply when conducting "Follow Your
Nose" consumption of Linked Data is the licensing of the target data,
e.g. ignore links to datasets that are not licensed for your
particular usage.

Cheers,

L.

[1]. http://opendatacommons.org/events/iswc-2009-legal-social-sharing-data-web/
[2]. http://blog.okfn.org/2009/11/05/slides-from-open-data-session-at-iswc-2009/
[3]. http://blog.ldodds.com/2010/01/01/rights-statements-on-the-web-of-data/
[4]. http://www.flickr.com/photos/ldodds/4043803502/
[5]. http://datahub.io/group/lodcloud

On Sat, May 18, 2013 at 3:15 AM, Pascal Hitzler
 wrote:

We just finished a piece indicating serious legal issues regarding the
commercialization of Linked Data - this may be of general interest, hence
the post. We hope to stimulate discussions on this issue (hence the
provokative title).

Available from
http://knoesis.wright.edu/faculty/pascal/pub/nomoneylod.pdf

Abstract.
Linked Data (LD) has been an active research area for more than 6 years and
many aspects about publishing, retrieving, linking, and cleaning Linked Data
have been investigated. There seems to be a broad and general agreement that
in principle LD datasets can be very useful for solving a wide variety of
problems ranging from practical industrial analytics to highly specific
research problems. Having these notions in mind, we started exploring the
use of notable LD datasets such as DBpedia, Freebase, Geonames and others
for a commercial application. However, it turns out that using these
datasets in realistic settings is not always easy. Surprisingly, in many
cases the underlying issues are not technical but legal barriers erected by
the LD data publishers. In this paper we argue that these barriers are often
not justified, detrimental to both data publishers and users, and are often
built without much consideration of their consequences.

Authors:
Prateek Jain, Pascal Hitzler, Krzysztof Janowicz, Chitra Venkatramani

--
Prof. Dr. Pascal Hitzler
Kno.e.sis Center, Wright State University, Dayton, OH
pas...@pascal-hitzler.de   http://www.knoesis.org/pascal/
Semantic Web Textbook: http://www.semantic-web-book.org
Semantic Web Journal: http://www.semantic-web-journal.net








--
Prof. Dr. Pascal Hitzler
Kno.e.sis Center, Wright State University, Dayton, OH
pas...@pascal-hitzler.de   http://www.knoesis.org/pascal/
Semantic Web Textbook: http://www.semantic-web-book.org
Semantic Web Journal: http://www.semantic-web-journal.net

Re: There's No Money in Linked Data

[Pascal Hitzler]

On 5/17/2013 10:32 PM, Samuel Rose wrote:

On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 10:15 PM, Pascal Hitzler
 wrote:

We just finished a piece indicating serious legal issues regarding the
commercialization of Linked Data - this may be of general interest, hence
the post. We hope to stimulate discussions on this issue (hence the
provokative title).

Available from
http://knoesis.wright.edu/faculty/pascal/pub/nomoneylod.pdf

Abstract.
Linked Data (LD) has been an active research area for more than 6 years and
many aspects about publishing, retrieving, linking, and cleaning Linked Data
have been investigated. There seems to be a broad and general agreement that
in principle LD datasets can be very useful for solving a wide variety of
problems ranging from practical industrial analytics to highly specific
research problems. Having these notions in mind, we started exploring the
use of notable LD datasets such as DBpedia, Freebase, Geonames and others
for a commercial application. However, it turns out that using these
datasets in realistic settings is not always easy. Surprisingly, in many
cases the underlying issues are not technical but legal barriers erected by
the LD data publishers. In this paper we argue that these barriers are often
not justified, detrimental to both data publishers and users, and are often
built without much consideration of their consequences.

Authors:
Prateek Jain, Pascal Hitzler, Krzysztof Janowicz, Chitra Venkatramani





Thanks, Pascal and co. Very useful!

It seems the suggestion here is to release under public domain for the
greatest freedom?


Well, yes, but the devil is in the details, e.g. if the data is derived 
from other data or websites, which might not have been so released ...


Pascal.






--
Prof. Dr. Pascal Hitzler
Kno.e.sis Center, Wright State University, Dayton, OH
pas...@pascal-hitzler.de   http://www.knoesis.org/pascal/
Semantic Web Textbook: http://www.semantic-web-book.org
Semantic Web Journal: http://www.semantic-web-journal.net








--
Prof. Dr. Pascal Hitzler
Kno.e.sis Center, Wright State University, Dayton, OH
pas...@pascal-hitzler.de   http://www.knoesis.org/pascal/
Semantic Web Textbook: http://www.semantic-web-book.org
Semantic Web Journal: http://www.semantic-web-journal.net

Re: There's No Money in Linked Data

[Markus Krötzsch]

Thanks, Denny. Well spoken.

Everybody should read this. I know that I will want to point people to 
this text in the future. Can you make a permanent URL and title that can 
be used to cite this text? No need to make a PDF, but something more 
than mailing list archives would be nice.


-- Markus

On 18/05/13 10:06, Denny Vrandečić wrote:

*

**

*tl;dr - If you publish data, attach the CC0 license to it, but that’s
basically just advertising - don’t think it means anything.*

*If you use data, you do not have to care much about the data license.*

*If you republish data, it’s a bit more complicated, but not as horrible
as you might think.*

*

Imagine a student reading a CC-BY-SA published textbook on compilers.
Next thing, based on that knowledge, he writes a parser and publishes
the binary on the Web. Does he have to acknowledge the textbook? Does he
have to publish his code under the same license?


Imagine a designer creating an image with GIMP, a fantastic open source
image processing tool, published under the GPL. Or a developer writing
his code in Eclipse. Or a website being served from a Linux box. What
legal implications does it have for the license of the image? For the
source code? For the served page?


Imagine a search engine that changes its background color depending on
the type of thing you are searching for. You enter a city - it turns
gray. You enter a person - red for females, blue for males, and purple
for others. You enter a company - yellow. And so on. Let us assume that
the search engine does that by figuring out the thing you are searching
for and then asking DBpedia for its type. Since DBpedia is licensed
under CC-BY-SA, does this mean we have to put a link on the search
result acknowledging DBpedia? Does this mean we have to publish our
search index under CC-BY-SA as well?


Imagine Red Cross publishing pages about the countries they work in, and
adding the population data to each of them from Freebase, the location
from OpenStreetMaps, the local name of the country from GeoNames, and
the capital from DBpedia. What amount of legal disclaimer would need to
be displayed on the page? Maybe some of the data items derive from
another source? What about their licenses? What about this license
stacking effect?



There are some rather vague ideas floating about how the whole
intellectual property law apparatus works for data. I have mulled over
this for a long time, and read more laws and court cases than I care to
admit. I want to try to make a few points in the following.


Let’s start with the basics. What laws do actually apply?


Copyright law protects the expression, not the idea - the form, not the
content. You can watch the newest Iron Man movie, and you are legally
allowed to annoy your friends with retellings of the movie as often as
you want. But you are not allowed to film it with your phone camera in
the theater and display it to your friends. If you learn something from
a textbook, you are free to write your own textbook, adding other
knowledge you have acquired, possibly from other textbooks and
publications. Only if you start copying the original texts to closely,
you will get into legal trouble.


Almost all of the above mentioned licenses - all Creative Commons
licenses currently available, as well as the GFDL or the GPL - are based
on copyright laws. The GPL has started, as Stallmann admits, as a legal
hack of copyright law. This makes a lot of sense, since these licenses
have not meant to cover data, but expressions: texts, music, and the
like. This means, these licenses cannot extend beyond that. They only
cover the expression. They cover the actual RDF/XML file, the string of
characters. Not the content. Not the graph.


(Note that ODBL and the current draft of the upcoming fourth revision of
CC go beyond copyright and include database right where applicable, i.e.
within the legislation of the EU. This extension is irrelevant for the US.)


This means that such licenses, like GFDL for data, have no restricting
effect if you want to use the data. Only if you want to republish the
data files more or less verbatim (in whole or partially, standalone or
as part of a bigger project), you need to think about the original
license. Merely including the data (not the files!) has no effect
stemming from copyright.


This also makes intuitively sense: if someone takes Wikipedia and counts
the distribution of words and letters in Wikipedia, the subsequent
publication of the results is not restricted by the original license
Wikipedia was published. If someone takes the whole Web, and creates a
graph of all links on the Web, and starts to apply some algorithms on
this graph, the subsequent usage of the results of these algorithms are
not subject to any of the licenses of the original texts published on
the Web. Copyright simply does not extend this far. And that is good.



So much to copyright. Unfortunately, the European Union went a step
further. They recognized that copyrig

Re: Examples of FYN agents (was: Re: There's No Money in Linked Data)

[Olaf Hartig]

On Saturday 18 May 2013 12:26:13 Michael Brunnbauer wrote:
> hi all,
> 
> On Sat, May 18, 2013 at 09:58:24AM +0100, Leigh Dodds wrote:
> > One criteria that agents might apply when conducting "Follow Your
> > Nose" consumption of Linked Data ...
> 
> I am interested in examples of such agents that are not crawlers or semantic
> web browsers.

Any system that supports the link traversal based query execution paradigm 
(LTBQE) presents such an example. For instance, SQUIN [1] is such a system.

If you want to get an overview on Linked Data query execution, including 
LTBQE, you may read the slides from my WWW2013 tutorial [2] or this article 
[3]. For a short, 4-pages paper on SQUIN refer to [4].

Best,
Olaf


[1] http://squin.org

[2] http://db.uwaterloo.ca/LDQTut2013/

[3] O. Hartig: An Overview on Execution Strategies for Linked Data Queries. To 
appear in Datenbankspektrum, 2013.
http://olafhartig.de/files/Hartig_LDQueryExec_DBSpektrum2013_Preprint.pdf

[4] O. Hartig: SQUIN: A Traversal Based Query Execution System for the Web of 
Linked Data. In SIGMOD 2013.
http://olafhartig.de/files/Hartig_SIGMOD2013Demo_Preprint.pdf



 
> Regards,
> 
> Michael Brunnbauer

Re: Examples of FYN agents (was: Re: There's No Money in Linked Data)

[Richard Cyganiak]

On 18 May 2013, at 11:26, Michael Brunnbauer  wrote:
>> One criteria that agents might apply when conducting "Follow Your
>> Nose" consumption of Linked Data ...
> 
> I am interested in examples of such agents that are not crawlers or semantic
> web browsers. 

These should qualify: Both Neologism and the RDF Extension for Refine 
dereference vocabulary terms (class and property URIs) to get the full 
vocabulary. This works fairly reliably these days.

Best,
Richard



> 
> Regards,
> 
> Michael Brunnbauer
> 
> -- 
> ++  Michael Brunnbauer
> ++  netEstate GmbH
> ++  Geisenhausener Straße 11a
> ++  81379 München
> ++  Tel +49 89 32 19 77 80
> ++  Fax +49 89 32 19 77 89 
> ++  E-Mail bru...@netestate.de
> ++  http://www.netestate.de/
> ++
> ++  Sitz: München, HRB Nr.142452 (Handelsregister B München)
> ++  USt-IdNr. DE221033342
> ++  Geschäftsführer: Michael Brunnbauer, Franz Brunnbauer
> ++  Prokurist: Dipl. Kfm. (Univ.) Markus Hendel
> 

Re: There's No Money in Linked Data

[David Wood]

Good work, Pascal.  Some minor comments:

1)  Licenses (and license compliance) are issues with much broader communities, 
including Open Source software and other forms of open content.

2)  I wish you had used the term Linked *Open* Data to avoid purely commercial 
users of Linked Data being confused.

Regards,
Dave
--
http://about.me/david_wood



On May 17, 2013, at 22:15, Pascal Hitzler  wrote:

> We just finished a piece indicating serious legal issues regarding the 
> commercialization of Linked Data - this may be of general interest, hence the 
> post. We hope to stimulate discussions on this issue (hence the provokative 
> title).
> 
> Available from
> http://knoesis.wright.edu/faculty/pascal/pub/nomoneylod.pdf
> 
> Abstract.
> Linked Data (LD) has been an active research area for more than 6 years and 
> many aspects about publishing, retrieving, linking, and cleaning Linked Data 
> have been investigated. There seems to be a broad and general agreement that 
> in principle LD datasets can be very useful for solving a wide variety of 
> problems ranging from practical industrial analytics to highly specific 
> research problems. Having these notions in mind, we started exploring the use 
> of notable LD datasets such as DBpedia, Freebase, Geonames and others for a 
> commercial application. However, it turns out that using these datasets in 
> realistic settings is not always easy. Surprisingly, in many cases the 
> underlying issues are not technical but legal barriers erected by the LD data 
> publishers. In this paper we argue that these barriers are often not 
> justified, detrimental to both data publishers and users, and are often built 
> without much consideration of their consequences.
> 
> Authors:
> Prateek Jain, Pascal Hitzler, Krzysztof Janowicz, Chitra Venkatramani
> 
> -- 
> Prof. Dr. Pascal Hitzler
> Kno.e.sis Center, Wright State University, Dayton, OH
> pas...@pascal-hitzler.de   http://www.knoesis.org/pascal/
> Semantic Web Textbook: http://www.semantic-web-book.org
> Semantic Web Journal: http://www.semantic-web-journal.net
> 
> 



smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature

Examples of FYN agents (was: Re: There's No Money in Linked Data)

[Michael Brunnbauer]

hi all,

On Sat, May 18, 2013 at 09:58:24AM +0100, Leigh Dodds wrote:
> One criteria that agents might apply when conducting "Follow Your
> Nose" consumption of Linked Data ...

I am interested in examples of such agents that are not crawlers or semantic
web browsers. 

Regards,

Michael Brunnbauer

-- 
++  Michael Brunnbauer
++  netEstate GmbH
++  Geisenhausener Straße 11a
++  81379 München
++  Tel +49 89 32 19 77 80
++  Fax +49 89 32 19 77 89 
++  E-Mail bru...@netestate.de
++  http://www.netestate.de/
++
++  Sitz: München, HRB Nr.142452 (Handelsregister B München)
++  USt-IdNr. DE221033342
++  Geschäftsführer: Michael Brunnbauer, Franz Brunnbauer
++  Prokurist: Dipl. Kfm. (Univ.) Markus Hendel

Re: There's No Money in Linked Data

[Leigh Dodds]

Hi Pascal,

Its good to draw attention to these issues. At ISWC 2009 Tom Heath,
Kaitlin Thaney, Jordan Hatcher and myself ran a workshop a legal and
social issues for data sharing [1, 2]. Key themes from the workshop
were around the importance of clear licensing, norms for attribution,
and including machine-readable license data.

At the time I did a survey of the current state of licensing of the
Linked Data cloud, there's a write-up [3] and diagram [4].

Looking over your analysis, I don't think the picture has changed
considerably since then. We need to work harder to ensure that data is
clearly licensed. But this is a general problem for Open Data, not
just Linked Open Data.

You don't say in your paper how you did the analysis. Did you use the
metadata from the LOD group in datahub? [5]. At the time I had to do
mine manually, but it wouldn't be hard to automate some of this now,
perhaps to create an regularly updated set of indicators.

One criteria that agents might apply when conducting "Follow Your
Nose" consumption of Linked Data is the licensing of the target data,
e.g. ignore links to datasets that are not licensed for your
particular usage.

Cheers,

L.

[1]. http://opendatacommons.org/events/iswc-2009-legal-social-sharing-data-web/
[2]. http://blog.okfn.org/2009/11/05/slides-from-open-data-session-at-iswc-2009/
[3]. http://blog.ldodds.com/2010/01/01/rights-statements-on-the-web-of-data/
[4]. http://www.flickr.com/photos/ldodds/4043803502/
[5]. http://datahub.io/group/lodcloud

On Sat, May 18, 2013 at 3:15 AM, Pascal Hitzler
 wrote:
> We just finished a piece indicating serious legal issues regarding the
> commercialization of Linked Data - this may be of general interest, hence
> the post. We hope to stimulate discussions on this issue (hence the
> provokative title).
>
> Available from
> http://knoesis.wright.edu/faculty/pascal/pub/nomoneylod.pdf
>
> Abstract.
> Linked Data (LD) has been an active research area for more than 6 years and
> many aspects about publishing, retrieving, linking, and cleaning Linked Data
> have been investigated. There seems to be a broad and general agreement that
> in principle LD datasets can be very useful for solving a wide variety of
> problems ranging from practical industrial analytics to highly specific
> research problems. Having these notions in mind, we started exploring the
> use of notable LD datasets such as DBpedia, Freebase, Geonames and others
> for a commercial application. However, it turns out that using these
> datasets in realistic settings is not always easy. Surprisingly, in many
> cases the underlying issues are not technical but legal barriers erected by
> the LD data publishers. In this paper we argue that these barriers are often
> not justified, detrimental to both data publishers and users, and are often
> built without much consideration of their consequences.
>
> Authors:
> Prateek Jain, Pascal Hitzler, Krzysztof Janowicz, Chitra Venkatramani
>
> --
> Prof. Dr. Pascal Hitzler
> Kno.e.sis Center, Wright State University, Dayton, OH
> pas...@pascal-hitzler.de   http://www.knoesis.org/pascal/
> Semantic Web Textbook: http://www.semantic-web-book.org
> Semantic Web Journal: http://www.semantic-web-journal.net
>
>



-- 
Leigh Dodds
Freelance Technologist
Open Data, Linked Data Geek
t: @ldodds
w: ldodds.com
e: le...@ldodds.com

Re: There's No Money in Linked Data

[Samuel Rose]

On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 10:15 PM, Pascal Hitzler
 wrote:
> We just finished a piece indicating serious legal issues regarding the
> commercialization of Linked Data - this may be of general interest, hence
> the post. We hope to stimulate discussions on this issue (hence the
> provokative title).
>
> Available from
> http://knoesis.wright.edu/faculty/pascal/pub/nomoneylod.pdf
>
> Abstract.
> Linked Data (LD) has been an active research area for more than 6 years and
> many aspects about publishing, retrieving, linking, and cleaning Linked Data
> have been investigated. There seems to be a broad and general agreement that
> in principle LD datasets can be very useful for solving a wide variety of
> problems ranging from practical industrial analytics to highly specific
> research problems. Having these notions in mind, we started exploring the
> use of notable LD datasets such as DBpedia, Freebase, Geonames and others
> for a commercial application. However, it turns out that using these
> datasets in realistic settings is not always easy. Surprisingly, in many
> cases the underlying issues are not technical but legal barriers erected by
> the LD data publishers. In this paper we argue that these barriers are often
> not justified, detrimental to both data publishers and users, and are often
> built without much consideration of their consequences.
>
> Authors:
> Prateek Jain, Pascal Hitzler, Krzysztof Janowicz, Chitra Venkatramani
>



Thanks, Pascal and co. Very useful!

It seems the suggestion here is to release under public domain for the
greatest freedom?



> --
> Prof. Dr. Pascal Hitzler
> Kno.e.sis Center, Wright State University, Dayton, OH
> pas...@pascal-hitzler.de   http://www.knoesis.org/pascal/
> Semantic Web Textbook: http://www.semantic-web-book.org
> Semantic Web Journal: http://www.semantic-web-journal.net
>
>