Re: [pydotorg-www] Fw: [Archiver-policy] Impact of SOPA?

[anatoly techtonik]

If there are SOPA supporters amongst PSF sponsors then PSF is not
interested in any conflicts with them.
But Python is developed by community, so is PFS doesn't respect the
community opinion, it may do more harm.

Ignoring SOPA is a communication fail.
-- 
anatoly t.
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Re: [pydotorg-www] Fw: [Archiver-policy] Impact of SOPA?

[Andre Roberge]

On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 12:43 PM, Brandon Craig Rhodes <
bran...@rhodesmill.org> wrote:

> Python already has a reputation for being undeployable in an emergency
> because PyPI does not stay up consistency enough.  Please imagine the
> violence this will do to lone, hard-working Python supporters in the
> back server rooms of big organizations, if they have to explain to their
> bosses that the new web app cannot be deployed today; that they cannot
> set up their old virtualenv's on their new laptop's hard drive; and that
> they cannot even read any documentation, because of a protest going on
> against a law over in the United States.
>
> Shutting down the already-unreliable Python web infrastructure yet again
> would not harm the SOPA supporters in the United States Congress.  But
> it would harm our community the world over, and damage our reputation,
> while not doing a whit to prevent SOPA from passing.
>
> Python should strive to be the always-available, always-up, always-to-
> the-rescue language for programmers everywhere.  Our form of protest
> should be to become *more* available, *more* reliable; to reach out with
> resources to programmers in countries that try to block python.org; and
> to remain up until the very last moment, even if open-source one day has
> to go underground.
>
> Shutting down ahead of time would simply be to poke ourselves in our own
> collective eyeball.
>

+1000

This reminds me of a parellel that I saw both as a student and as a prof.
 Students would decide to go on strike to protest some issue.  Who was
penalized by the strike?  Certainly not the school administration, nor the
profs, nor the government: it was the students themselves.   Protests are
not very effective when it is the protesters (or their immediate community
and/or allies) that are inconvenienced.

Adding some sort of information banner about SOPA, it if is easily
feasible, might be a good idea.  But inconveniencing Python users is not,
imo, a good idea at this time.

André Roberge


>
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>
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Re: [pydotorg-www] Fw: [Archiver-policy] Impact of SOPA?

[Brandon Craig Rhodes]

Python already has a reputation for being undeployable in an emergency
because PyPI does not stay up consistency enough.  Please imagine the
violence this will do to lone, hard-working Python supporters in the
back server rooms of big organizations, if they have to explain to their
bosses that the new web app cannot be deployed today; that they cannot
set up their old virtualenv's on their new laptop's hard drive; and that
they cannot even read any documentation, because of a protest going on
against a law over in the United States.

Shutting down the already-unreliable Python web infrastructure yet again
would not harm the SOPA supporters in the United States Congress.  But
it would harm our community the world over, and damage our reputation,
while not doing a whit to prevent SOPA from passing.

Python should strive to be the always-available, always-up, always-to-
the-rescue language for programmers everywhere.  Our form of protest
should be to become *more* available, *more* reliable; to reach out with
resources to programmers in countries that try to block python.org; and
to remain up until the very last moment, even if open-source one day has
to go underground.

Shutting down ahead of time would simply be to poke ourselves in our own
collective eyeball.

-- 
Brandon Craig Rhodes   bran...@rhodesmill.org   http://rhodesmill.org/brandon
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Re: [pydotorg-www] Fw: [Archiver-policy] Impact of SOPA?

[M.-A. Lemburg]

Patrick Ben Koetter wrote:
> * Barry Warsaw :
>> I really almost hesitate to send this, not because I'm not entirely
>> sympathetic to the cause, but because political discussions are always
>> problematic and perhaps more so because of the PSF's non-profit status.
>> Still, SOPA and the like are evil pieces of legislation that will have
>> seriously dire consequences to Python and python.org.  Notwithstanding the
>> recent backtracking on these bills, I wonder if we should blackout as well 
>> for
>> solidarity (and self-interest).
>>
>> I'm deliberately sending it here first, although the board would likely have
>> to decide too.  The question is, if we wanted to participate, would it be
>> technically feasible given our volunteer resources?
> 
> postmaster hat on:
> Yes, we can blackout mail for that time
> 
> SOPA:
> Personally I don't think we need to start a discussion on it. We can just vote
> and do what the vote returns.

FWIW: I'm not sure whether the PSF should engage in such local
political discussions, being an organization with international
focus.

-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
eGenix.com

Professional Python Services directly from the Source  (#1, Jan 16 2012)
>>> Python/Zope Consulting and Support ...http://www.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC.Zope.Database.Adapter ... http://zope.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ...http://python.egenix.com/


::: Try our new mxODBC.Connect Python Database Interface for free ! 


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D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg
   Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611
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Re: [pydotorg-www] Fw: [Archiver-policy] Impact of SOPA?

[Łukasz Langa]

Wiadomość napisana przez Barry Warsaw w dniu 16 sty 2012, o godz. 15:37:Though if we do it, we should do it with all the python.org web sites.$ pip install anythingDownloading/unpacking anything  Cannot fetch index base URL http://pypi.python.org/simple/  Could not find any downloads that satisfy the requirement anythingNo distributions at all found for anythingStoring complete log in /home/user/.pip/pip.logI wonder if we could come up with an error message for easy_install and pip that would indicate we're shut down because of SOPA.
-- Best regards,Łukasz LangaSenior Systems Architecture EngineerIT Infrastructure DepartmentGrupa Allegro Sp. z o.o.Pomyśl o środowisku naturalnym zanim wydrukujesz tę wiadomość!Please consider the environment before printing out this e-mail.

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Re: [pydotorg-www] Fw: [Archiver-policy] Impact of SOPA?

[Barry Warsaw]

On Jan 16, 2012, at 03:26 PM, Patrick Ben Koetter wrote:

>postmaster hat on:
>Yes, we can blackout mail for that time

I think we'd also want to block archiver access to mail.python.org and throw
up an informative page.  Though if we do it, we should do it with all the
python.org web sites.

-Barry


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Re: [pydotorg-www] Fw: [Archiver-policy] Impact of SOPA?

[Patrick Ben Koetter]

* Barry Warsaw :
> I really almost hesitate to send this, not because I'm not entirely
> sympathetic to the cause, but because political discussions are always
> problematic and perhaps more so because of the PSF's non-profit status.
> Still, SOPA and the like are evil pieces of legislation that will have
> seriously dire consequences to Python and python.org.  Notwithstanding the
> recent backtracking on these bills, I wonder if we should blackout as well for
> solidarity (and self-interest).
> 
> I'm deliberately sending it here first, although the board would likely have
> to decide too.  The question is, if we wanted to participate, would it be
> technically feasible given our volunteer resources?

postmaster hat on:
Yes, we can blackout mail for that time

SOPA:
Personally I don't think we need to start a discussion on it. We can just vote
and do what the vote returns.

p@rick




> 
> -Barry
> 
> Begin forwarded message:
> 
> Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2012 17:21:45 -0800
> From: Jeff Marshall 
> To: Hank Leininger 
> Cc: "archiver-pol...@python.org" 
> Subject: Re: [Archiver-policy] Impact of SOPA?
> 
> 
> Hi Hank, great to hear from you. 
> 
> We've been discussing it this weekend and we are leaning strongly towards 
> doing a full blackout for the day on the 18th.  We plan on deciding tonight. 
> 
> We haven't gotten any legal opinions on the proposed legislation, but our 
> IANAL interpretation is pretty dire like yours. 
> 
> It would be great if several of us participated in the blackout together 
> resulting in more awareness across the spectrum. 
> 
> Jeff
> 
> 
> On Jan 15, 2012, at 4:52 PM, Hank Leininger  wrote:
> 
> > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> > Hash: SHA256
> > 
> > Hi folks,
> > 
> > MARC admin here.
> > 
> > What are your thoughts on the impact of SOPA on public mailing list
> > archives hosted in the United States?
> > 
> > IANAL, and I can't keep up with the various modifications to SOPA and
> > Protect-IP that keep coming, but my impression is that it would be a
> > death sentence: we would be obligated to review all messages for
> > copyrighted content prior to posting, make us liable for any
> > violations, and of course, get our sites taken down/blocked based on
> > unsupported claims (i.e. no due process; guilty until proven
> > innocent).
> > 
> > I'd expect to have to shut MARC down, or move it out of the US (and no
> > longer touch it myself, any more).  So, I am thinking of participating
> > in the SOPA Blackout Day on Wednesday.
> > 
> > I'm curious what the Jeffs think, if you've gotten any legal opinions
> > on the matter, considered participating in the blackout, etc.
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > 
> > Hank
> > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
> > 
> > iQEVAwUBTxN0wEeo0UvhPpxqAQiy7gf/bKap95vBkW9HcMQCC/xFEYHWJaWszXC5
> > lIOfPW0lC1fbxa6BkRvMEYloiseYS3yCzgPxUqCkDQvn6R5mHOGAHRvIQWBMlj/d
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> > -END PGP SIGNATURE-
> > ___
> > Archiver-policy mailing list
> > archiver-pol...@python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/archiver-policy

> Hi Hank, great to hear from 
> you. We've been discussing it this weekend and 
> we are leaning strongly towards doing a full blackout for the day on the 
> 18th.  We plan on deciding tonight. We 
> haven't gotten any legal opinions on the proposed legislation, but our IANAL 
> interpretation is pretty dire like yours. It 
> would be great if several of us participated in the blackout together 
> resulting in more awareness across the 
> spectrum. JeffOn Jan 15, 2012, at 4:52 
> PM, Hank Leininger < href="mailto:hl...@marc.info";>hl...@marc.info> 
> wrote: class="Apple-style-span" color="#00">-BEGIN PGP SIGNED 
> MESSAGE-Hash: SHA256Hi folks,MARC admin 
> here.What are your thoughts on the impact of SOPA on public mailing 
> listarchives hosted in the United States?IANAL, and I can't keep 
> up with the various modifications to SOPA andProtect-IP that keep coming, 
> but my impression is that it would be adeath sentence: we would be 
> obligated to review all messages forcopyrighted content prior to posting, 
> make us liable for anyviolations, and of course, get our sites taken 
> down/blocked based onunsupported claims (i.e. no due process; guilty 
> until proveninnocent).I'd expect to have to shut MARC down, or 
> move it out of the US (and nolonger touch it myself, any more).  So, 
> I am thinking of participatingin the SOPA Blackout Day on 
> Wednesday.I'm curious what the Jeffs think, if you've gotten any 
> legal opinionson the matter, considered participating in the blackout, 
> etc.Thanks,Hank-BEGIN PGP 
> SIGNATURE-iQEVAwUBTxN0wEeo0UvhPpxqAQiy7gf/bKap95vBkW9HcMQCC/xFEYHWJaWszXC5lIOfPW

[pydotorg-www] Fw: [Archiver-policy] Impact of SOPA?

[Barry Warsaw]

I really almost hesitate to send this, not because I'm not entirely
sympathetic to the cause, but because political discussions are always
problematic and perhaps more so because of the PSF's non-profit status.
Still, SOPA and the like are evil pieces of legislation that will have
seriously dire consequences to Python and python.org.  Notwithstanding the
recent backtracking on these bills, I wonder if we should blackout as well for
solidarity (and self-interest).

I'm deliberately sending it here first, although the board would likely have
to decide too.  The question is, if we wanted to participate, would it be
technically feasible given our volunteer resources?

-Barry

Begin forwarded message:

Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2012 17:21:45 -0800
From: Jeff Marshall 
To: Hank Leininger 
Cc: "archiver-pol...@python.org" 
Subject: Re: [Archiver-policy] Impact of SOPA?


Hi Hank, great to hear from you. 

We've been discussing it this weekend and we are leaning strongly towards doing 
a full blackout for the day on the 18th.  We plan on deciding tonight. 

We haven't gotten any legal opinions on the proposed legislation, but our IANAL 
interpretation is pretty dire like yours. 

It would be great if several of us participated in the blackout together 
resulting in more awareness across the spectrum. 

Jeff


On Jan 15, 2012, at 4:52 PM, Hank Leininger  wrote:

> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA256
> 
> Hi folks,
> 
> MARC admin here.
> 
> What are your thoughts on the impact of SOPA on public mailing list
> archives hosted in the United States?
> 
> IANAL, and I can't keep up with the various modifications to SOPA and
> Protect-IP that keep coming, but my impression is that it would be a
> death sentence: we would be obligated to review all messages for
> copyrighted content prior to posting, make us liable for any
> violations, and of course, get our sites taken down/blocked based on
> unsupported claims (i.e. no due process; guilty until proven
> innocent).
> 
> I'd expect to have to shut MARC down, or move it out of the US (and no
> longer touch it myself, any more).  So, I am thinking of participating
> in the SOPA Blackout Day on Wednesday.
> 
> I'm curious what the Jeffs think, if you've gotten any legal opinions
> on the matter, considered participating in the blackout, etc.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Hank
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
> 
> iQEVAwUBTxN0wEeo0UvhPpxqAQiy7gf/bKap95vBkW9HcMQCC/xFEYHWJaWszXC5
> lIOfPW0lC1fbxa6BkRvMEYloiseYS3yCzgPxUqCkDQvn6R5mHOGAHRvIQWBMlj/d
> bbCjidpnboRtQ+c0xGD5iib7hXvsMyL2dRQem7c6/WbHq2uvbTngsuA+Wzhwq7nW
> LJxUB8Ucgp05x/UCsSPgUj+DmGrA4bmisVuBB9xypB6b1NQZ/BsKm6nMumzRiPTe
> NCXSZGxsSpng+WIyvSSgXfckxZxSfEOF9G3BL9Q4hthTUEMwhAPsH/UKRcOcvCh6
> wWSKGBLco8ufMYjMrb+8ntIv/E7aTryMbOqbg+XyRM77Rdi/8z/Lqg==
> =6Mtz
> -END PGP SIGNATURE-
> ___
> Archiver-policy mailing list
> archiver-pol...@python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/archiver-policy
Hi Hank, great to hear from you. We've been discussing it this weekend and we are leaning strongly towards doing a full blackout for the day on the 18th.  We plan on deciding tonight. We haven't gotten any legal opinions on the proposed legislation, but our IANAL interpretation is pretty dire like yours. It would be great if several of us participated in the blackout together resulting in more awareness across the spectrum. JeffOn Jan 15, 2012, at 4:52 PM, Hank Leininger  wrote:-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-Hash: SHA256Hi folks,MARC admin here.What are your thoughts on the impact of SOPA on public mailing listarchives hosted in the United States?IANAL, and I can't keep up with the various modifications to SOPA andProtect-IP that keep coming, but my impression is that it would be adeath sentence: we would be obligated to review all messages forcopyrighted content prior to posting, make us liable for anyviolations, and of course, get our sites taken down/blocked based onunsupported claims (i.e. no due process; guilty until proveninnocent).I'd expect to have to shut MARC down, or move it out of the US (and nolonger touch it myself, any more).  So, I am thinking of participatingin the SOPA Blackout Day on Wednesday.I'm curious what the Jeffs think, if you've gotten any legal opinionson the matter, considered participating in the blackout, etc.Thanks,Hank-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-iQEVAwUBTxN0wEeo0UvhPpxqAQiy7gf/bKap95vBkW9HcMQCC/xFEYHWJaWszXC5lIOfPW0lC1fbxa6BkRvMEYloiseYS3yCzgPxUqCkDQvn6R5mHOGAHRvIQWBMlj/dbbCjidpnboRtQ+c0xGD5iib7hXvsMyL2dRQem7c6/WbHq2uvbTngsuA+Wzhwq7nWLJxUB8Ucgp05x/UCsSPgUj+DmGrA4bmisVuBB9xypB6b1NQZ/BsKm6nMumzRiPTeNCXSZGxsSpng+WIyvSSgXfckxZxSfEOF9G3BL9Q4hthTUEMwhAPsH/UKRcOcvCh6wWSKGBLco8ufMYjMrb+8ntIv/E7aTryMbOqbg+XyRM77Rdi/8z/Lqg===6Mtz-END PGP SIGNATURE-___Archiver-policy mailing listarchiver-pol...@python.orghttp://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/archiver-policy