Re: [pydotorg-www] Fwd: Re: [Python Wiki] Update of "PythonEditors" by PaulBoddie
On Sun, Feb 9, 2014 at 4:09 PM, Paul Boddie wrote: > On Sunday 9. February 2014 12.14.14 anatoly techtonik wrote: >> Can somebody make Wiki send mails from some list address more suitable >> for discussions? > > You can't argue with the wiki? ;-) > > But regarding the change I made... > > [...] > >> > The "PythonEditors" page has been changed by PaulBoddie: >> > https://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonEditors?action=diff&rev1=557&rev2=558 >> > >> > Comment: >> > Added ACL. >> >> Why? > > Because I'm fed up of having to revert wiki pages all the time. Some people > may subscribe to the idea that things should be super-easy for random people > on the Internet to go in and make their oh-so-vital contribution to shared > resources like the Python Wiki, because it's otherwise "setting a high > barrier", "inconvenient for quick changes" or just being "elitist", but when > it just means that people go in and vandalise it with their stupid link > spamming, I'd much rather raise the barrier so that it's more likely that only > people motivated enough to sign up and to actually demonstrate competence and > benign intent get to edit those resources. I'd say that spammers are more motivated than competent people nowadays. The decline in Wikipedia edits shows a clear trend, so EAFP becomes even more important to encourage valuable additions. The 2014 solution is not strict ACL, but ACL that just puts edits in ModerationQueue, which MoinMoin doesn't implement. >> > + #acl TrustedEditorsGroup:read,write,delete,revert All:read >> > + >> > >> > If you have anything to contribute -- e.g. configurations for editors, >> > new editors, or opinion -- don't hesitate to edit or create pages. >> >> Isn't it contradicting with ACL? > > Not really. Random spammers don't have anything to contribute, and short of > introducing other measures (which exist but don't seem to be palatable to the > admins, at least as far as I know), No. The question is about this text - >> > If you have anything to contribute -- e.g. configurations for editors, >> > new editors, or opinion -- don't hesitate to edit or create pages. people won't be able to edit or create pages under ACL, so after don't hesitating they will become stumbled. > be a resistance to do so. I think admin time and resources are limited (and > I've been waiting for months for the go-ahead on something else that involves > the python.org infrastructure, although I'm quite prepared to wait), and so we For me such issues should be made public. There are many Python users who are full time admins, who are mostly free if they good at what they are doing, and they may help. > just have to make the best out of what we have. But that doesn't mean asking > more from me and others who de-spam the wiki just to make everybody else's > lives, including those of random spammers, easier. It would be more fun to use the best what we have and not build upon best that's available. Because in Belarus I don't know people who would do through the process of requesting permission to edit a page on Python wiki, and we have about 10 mln. people. I'd also give edit privilege to any person who made at least one successful edit. ___ pydotorg-www mailing list pydotorg-www@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pydotorg-www
Re: [pydotorg-www] Fwd: Re: [Python Wiki] Update of "PythonEditors" by PaulBoddie
On Sun, Feb 9, 2014 at 2:34 PM, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > On 09.02.2014 12:14, anatoly techtonik wrote: >> Can somebody make Wiki send mails from some list address more suitable >> for discussions? > > The message you received was from the wiki notification service. > It should be obvious that this is not a good discussion partner :-) I'd hack the system to make it redirect to a list that manages wiki affairs. The coder part of my brain tells that w...@python.org should alias to this list, but the marketing and PR departments don't like the awkward pydotorg-www name, but don't risk resurrecting pydotorg thread, which will bring back deconstructive whines about privacy and comfort zones. > In any case, if you want to discuss wiki issues you can do so here. Me? No. I hate MoinMoin ugly links, GPL, myself and issues. =) But other users may be interested to discover the discussion means. > Regarding Paul's change: this was likely to prevent excessive spam. > >> -- Forwarded message -- >> From: The Python Replybot >> Date: Sun, Feb 9, 2014 at 2:11 PM >> Subject: Re: Re: [Python Wiki] Update of "PythonEditors" by PaulBoddie >> To: techto...@gmail.com >> >> >> READ THIS! (If you want help.) >> ... >> -- Forwarded message -- >> From: anatoly techtonik >> To: Python Wiki >> Cc: >> Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2014 14:11:03 +0300 >> Subject: Re: [Python Wiki] Update of "PythonEditors" by PaulBoddie >> On Sat, Feb 8, 2014 at 4:59 PM, Python Wiki wrote: >>> Dear Wiki user, >>> >>> You have subscribed to a wiki page or wiki category on "Python Wiki" for >>> change notification. >>> >>> The "PythonEditors" page has been changed by PaulBoddie: >>> https://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonEditors?action=diff&rev1=557&rev2=558 >>> >>> Comment: >>> Added ACL. >> >> Why? >> >>> + #acl TrustedEditorsGroup:read,write,delete,revert All:read >>> + >>> If you have anything to contribute -- e.g. configurations for editors, >>> new editors, or opinion -- don't hesitate to edit or create pages. >> >> Isn't it contradicting with ACL? > > -- > Marc-Andre Lemburg > eGenix.com > > Professional Python Services directly from the Source (#1, Feb 09 2014) Python Projects, Consulting and Support ... http://www.egenix.com/ mxODBC.Zope/Plone.Database.Adapter ... http://zope.egenix.com/ mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ...http://python.egenix.com/ > > 2014-01-28: Released eGenix pyOpenSSL 0.13.3 ... http://egenix.com/go52 > > : Try our mxODBC.Connect Python Database Interface for free ! :: > >eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH Pastor-Loeh-Str.48 > D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg >Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611 >http://www.egenix.com/company/contact/ -- anatoly t. ___ pydotorg-www mailing list pydotorg-www@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pydotorg-www
Re: [pydotorg-www] Fwd: Re: [Python Wiki] Update of "PythonEditors" by PaulBoddie
On Sunday 9. February 2014 12.14.14 anatoly techtonik wrote: > Can somebody make Wiki send mails from some list address more suitable > for discussions? You can't argue with the wiki? ;-) But regarding the change I made... [...] > > The "PythonEditors" page has been changed by PaulBoddie: > > https://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonEditors?action=diff&rev1=557&rev2=558 > > > > Comment: > > Added ACL. > > Why? Because I'm fed up of having to revert wiki pages all the time. Some people may subscribe to the idea that things should be super-easy for random people on the Internet to go in and make their oh-so-vital contribution to shared resources like the Python Wiki, because it's otherwise "setting a high barrier", "inconvenient for quick changes" or just being "elitist", but when it just means that people go in and vandalise it with their stupid link spamming, I'd much rather raise the barrier so that it's more likely that only people motivated enough to sign up and to actually demonstrate competence and benign intent get to edit those resources. > > + #acl TrustedEditorsGroup:read,write,delete,revert All:read > > + > > > > If you have anything to contribute -- e.g. configurations for editors, > > new editors, or opinion -- don't hesitate to edit or create pages. > > Isn't it contradicting with ACL? Not really. Random spammers don't have anything to contribute, and short of introducing other measures (which exist but don't seem to be palatable to the admins, at least as far as I know), I don't think it's much to ask people to demonstrate that they are sincere about making genuine contributions. There are people who send mails to me personally to edit pages without ACLs, so it's no hardship for people to do what you managed to do and to work your way up into the trusted editors group. Currently, I'm setting ACLs only on the most spammed pages after reverting them for the nth time. Again, we could add other measures, but there seems to be a resistance to do so. I think admin time and resources are limited (and I've been waiting for months for the go-ahead on something else that involves the python.org infrastructure, although I'm quite prepared to wait), and so we just have to make the best out of what we have. But that doesn't mean asking more from me and others who de-spam the wiki just to make everybody else's lives, including those of random spammers, easier. Paul ___ pydotorg-www mailing list pydotorg-www@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pydotorg-www
Re: [pydotorg-www] Fwd: Re: [Python Wiki] Update of "PythonEditors" by PaulBoddie
On 09.02.2014 12:14, anatoly techtonik wrote: > Can somebody make Wiki send mails from some list address more suitable > for discussions? The message you received was from the wiki notification service. It should be obvious that this is not a good discussion partner :-) In any case, if you want to discuss wiki issues you can do so here. Regarding Paul's change: this was likely to prevent excessive spam. > -- Forwarded message -- > From: The Python Replybot > Date: Sun, Feb 9, 2014 at 2:11 PM > Subject: Re: Re: [Python Wiki] Update of "PythonEditors" by PaulBoddie > To: techto...@gmail.com > > > READ THIS! (If you want help.) > ... > -- Forwarded message -- > From: anatoly techtonik > To: Python Wiki > Cc: > Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2014 14:11:03 +0300 > Subject: Re: [Python Wiki] Update of "PythonEditors" by PaulBoddie > On Sat, Feb 8, 2014 at 4:59 PM, Python Wiki wrote: >> Dear Wiki user, >> >> You have subscribed to a wiki page or wiki category on "Python Wiki" for >> change notification. >> >> The "PythonEditors" page has been changed by PaulBoddie: >> https://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonEditors?action=diff&rev1=557&rev2=558 >> >> Comment: >> Added ACL. > > Why? > >> + #acl TrustedEditorsGroup:read,write,delete,revert All:read >> + >> If you have anything to contribute -- e.g. configurations for editors, new >> editors, or opinion -- don't hesitate to edit or create pages. > > Isn't it contradicting with ACL? -- Marc-Andre Lemburg eGenix.com Professional Python Services directly from the Source (#1, Feb 09 2014) >>> Python Projects, Consulting and Support ... http://www.egenix.com/ >>> mxODBC.Zope/Plone.Database.Adapter ... http://zope.egenix.com/ >>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ...http://python.egenix.com/ 2014-01-28: Released eGenix pyOpenSSL 0.13.3 ... http://egenix.com/go52 : Try our mxODBC.Connect Python Database Interface for free ! :: eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH Pastor-Loeh-Str.48 D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611 http://www.egenix.com/company/contact/ ___ pydotorg-www mailing list pydotorg-www@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pydotorg-www
[pydotorg-www] Fwd: Re: [Python Wiki] Update of "PythonEditors" by PaulBoddie
Can somebody make Wiki send mails from some list address more suitable for discussions? -- Forwarded message -- From: The Python Replybot Date: Sun, Feb 9, 2014 at 2:11 PM Subject: Re: Re: [Python Wiki] Update of "PythonEditors" by PaulBoddie To: techto...@gmail.com READ THIS! (If you want help.) webmas...@python.org received an e-mail from you, and this is an automated response. python.org is a site for the free object-oriented programming language called Python. Please read this message carefully to see if it answers your question. While a human being has received your message, webmas...@python.org will probably *not* respond to you personally unless your question concerns the workings of the python.org web site or other administrative business. Help with Python programming For general information on the Python programming language, please visit the home page http://www.python.org/ and the documentation page http://www.python.org/doc/ For more information about Python help resources, visit http://www.python.org/about/help/ If you've discovered Python installed on your computer and are wondering how it got there, please see this web page: http://www.python.org/doc/faq/installed/ Learning Python If you are starting to learn Python and would like to get help for beginners, try contacting the Tutor list. Tutor is a mailing list that helps beginners learn how to use the Python programming language. You can subscribe to the tutor list by visiting the following web page: http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor You can find more information for new programmers at http://wiki.python.org/moin/BeginnersGuide User-Driven Site Updates There are three parts of the python.org website which used to be static pages, but which are now part of the Python Wiki. If you have new or updated information for any of these pages, follow the appropriate link: Editing Python http://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonEditors Python-Friendly http://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonHosting Web Hosting Python Books http://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonBooks and make the desired changes directly. Advanced questions If you are asking a question about Python programming, start with the FAQ: http://www.python.org/doc/faq/ If that doesn't answer your question, send it to python-l...@python.org (python-list can also be accessed as the netnews group comp.lang.python) or h...@python.org. python-list and c.l.py are preferred as the first step in getting assistance, because many more people are likely to read your message. If you wish to send a message to python-list, you should subscribe first, because many people will only post public responses (this ensures that lurkers also get the information): http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list h...@python.org is a mailing list that reaches a number of volunteer Python language experts dedicated to answering questions about the Python programming language. You do not need to subscribe to h...@python.org to ask a question of the helpers. But please be as clear as you can about the problem, including relevant details such as: - Precise error messages, including complete tracebacks - The hardware platform - The operating system (available in the Python sys module as sys.platform) - The Python version (sys.version) - The Python search path (sys.path) Subscribing to / Unsubscribing from Mailing Lists The python.org webmasters can't help you get on or off lists that happen to be managed with the Mailman package. Contact the administrator of the particular list instead. If you send email to the list using an address like "foo...@somewhere.com", try addressing your request to "foobar-requ...@somewhere.com" or "foobar-ow...@somewhere.com". Note that all Mailman lists contain an URL at the bottom of each message that takes you to a web page where you can unsubscribe from the list. You can also see a list of public mailing lists hosted by python.org at http://mail.python.org/ For information about the Mailman package, see http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman.html Miscellaneous We have absolutely no affiliation with Python Video or Python Communications. We are not a porn site and cannot help you with any billing problems you may have. For those of you asking questions about python snakes, we cannot help you either; we're not herpetologists! Nor do we know about or have any connection with Python tape drives; you might try http://www.seagate.com/ for more information. Many of us *like* the Monty Python comedy troupe, but we can't tell you much about them, either! :-) If you are looking for information on how to be a hacker, you should start with Eric Raymond's seminal article "How To Become a Hacker" at http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/hacker-howto.html "The joy of coding Python should be in seeing short, concise, readable classes that express
